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Ingrid Chavez reclaims "Justify My Love" and reveals how unoriginal Madonna really is

Interview from this past December. Shame on Madonna, Lenny and the music label execs for trying to rip her off. At least she got significant money but I hate how Lenny and Madonna keep lying about it, acting as if what they did was original.

What was the original inspiration for ‘Justify My Love’?

The song was a letter that I had written that I happened to have on me when I was hanging out in the studio with Lenny and Andre. After they sampled that beat and laid the synth down, Lenny asked me if I wanted to try laying a vocal down. I said sure and pulled out the letter and just spoke over the top of the music.

Can you give a snapshot of what happened with the songwriting credit controversy?

The snapshot is this: Lenny, Andre and I create this amazing song in the studio. Lenny and I take it to the head of Virgin Records to let him have a listen. He asks me for my copy. I hand it over thinking I will get another one. I never got another one. A few months later, Lenny asks me to hang with him in NYC where he tells me Madonna is doing the song and that if I want any money for writing credit I would have to sign an agreement to stay silent about my roll. The song comes out, Prince called me up and said, “What’s up with that Madonna song, I know that’s you.” I, for the first time admit to having written the lyrics and recording the original track. Prince is disappointed as we are just about to release a spoken word record on Paisley Park Records. He says that people are going to think that I am copying Madonna. I hire a lawyer and sue for credit.

Where does ownership of the song stand now?

I own twice the amount I was offered in our ‘hotel room deal’; but most importantly, my name is in the writers’ credits.

Did you like Madonna’s version?

It is exactly like the version I recorded. I couldn’t even tell if she had used my original background vocals in the chorus it was so close. Every word placement and expression was like the original.

Did you record this version as a way of “taking the song back,” so to speak? Or because you just wanted to do something different with it?

I have never looked back or felt like I needed to take anything back. I am fully in the moment of my life. I happened to be in Copenhagen rehearsing for a show in Bremen, Germany a couple of years ago, and the guys I was performing with asked me if I would consider doing ‘Justify My Love’ live. I said I don’t know, we can try it and see how it sounds. That live performance is on Youtube. It felt good and natural so we decided to record a version of it for potential release one day…and here we are.

Tell us a bit about your musical approach to the song.

My approach to the song was to read the letter I had on me. It was very personal. I just imagined I was speaking to the person on the other end of that letter.

Your version eschews that in-your-face sexuality of Madonna’s version. Is there a different message you think the song needs to convey?

Not really. She understood my passion and delivery from the original. That is why the song is so powerful. My version captured the raw emotion of a deep love affair and Madonna did an incredible job replicating it.

How do you feel about the song and its history now that you’ve finally recorded this new version?

I think that everything about the song is perfect. How it was written, why, that it landed in Madonna’s hands, that it was so stylistically mine that Prince knew it was me upon hearing it, and that I ultimately wound up with credit. I’m very proud to call the song mine and to be able to perform it. I wish people could hear the original, but it’s exciting to be sharing this new version with everyone.

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by Anonymousreply 73April 13, 2021 4:12 AM

It's not even that good of a song.

The controversy over the video is what got it noticed.

Who cares.

by Anonymousreply 1April 11, 2021 9:31 AM

R1 because Madonna used it as another gimmick to keep tricking the public and critics that she's some sort of creative genius. She got rave reviews for her sexy spoken lyrics which we now find out are simply imitating exactly what Ingrid Chavez did in the demo. Additionally, this sexy spoken style influenced her next album Erotica. If Madonna hadn't had this song as a launch pad she wouldn't have come up with the sexy spoken vocal on her own and Erotica would have been totally different

by Anonymousreply 2April 11, 2021 9:40 AM

Leos have absolutely no shame when it comes to stealing from others. None. See Jennifer Lopez' long history of pilfering music from other more talented artists.

by Anonymousreply 3April 11, 2021 9:48 AM

Nobody cared about the song.

People made a hoo-ha over the video, but nobody cared about the song.

Did Ingrid Chavez reveal herself to be a brilliant songwriter afterward, showered with platinum discs and awards? Was Erotica a massive global smash that took Madonna's career to another level, not a flop that ran her career aground that she had to recover from?

Yeah, Madonna was a prick who took too many songwriting credits she didn't earn. But we knew that 20 years ago. There's no fresh news or reset stakes here.

by Anonymousreply 4April 11, 2021 9:50 AM

Prince was right in that everyone would think Ingrid was copying Madonna when her debut album came out. It's possible Ingrid could have made "Justify My Love" a hit on her own as it's catchy

all her momentum was gone when Madonna and Lenny Kravitz ripped off her idea and lyrics

by Anonymousreply 5April 11, 2021 9:54 AM

Madonna never claimed to have written Justify My Love. On The Immaculate Collection it was credited to Lenny Kravitz with additional lyrics by Madonna. He was the one who ripped off Chavez.

There are some incredibly bitter people who refuse to acknowledge Madonna had any creative input into her songs, despite the people she wrote songs with going on record to detail her involvement, be it Patrick Leonard, Babyface or Rick Nowels.

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by Anonymousreply 6April 11, 2021 10:02 AM

R6 is right, Madonna herself said in an interview with Kurt Loder that Kravitz brought the song to her as is, and she then recorded herself doing it; that she hadn't even heard of Chavez. Also, I note that Chavez is very complimentary of Madonna's version above - it doesn't sound like she has any problems with her.

Anyway, it was a sucky thing for Kravitz to do to Chavez. I imagine that goes on all the time too (didn't William Orbit pull a similar stunt with "Candy Perfume Girl" and "Swim"?).

by Anonymousreply 7April 11, 2021 10:31 AM

Oh dear, I was reading this thread thinking it was about Ingrid Casares.

Over 30 years ago, imagine.

by Anonymousreply 8April 11, 2021 10:38 AM

Tl;dr

by Anonymousreply 9April 11, 2021 10:41 AM

I don't get it. OP is trying to use an interview to smear Madonna where the original writer is complementary of her.

Huh?

by Anonymousreply 10April 11, 2021 10:50 AM

I wonder who the song is about. And how much money she got. Curious to hear her version, I’ll listen.

by Anonymousreply 11April 11, 2021 10:55 AM

Madonna is an awful person, certainly has no kinship with real artists.

by Anonymousreply 12April 11, 2021 11:27 AM

I remember one review of the song described it as a silly moan. I cackled.

by Anonymousreply 13April 11, 2021 1:22 PM

[quote][R1] because Madonna used it as another gimmick to keep tricking the public and critics that she's some sort of creative genius. She got rave reviews for her sexy spoken lyrics which we now find out are simply imitating exactly what Ingrid Chavez did in the demo. Additionally, this sexy spoken style influenced her next album Erotica. If Madonna hadn't had this song as a launch pad she wouldn't have come up with the sexy spoken vocal on her own and Erotica would have been totally different

The bitter queens in this thread make me laugh.

The idea that Justify My Love was a launch pad for Madonna is hilarious. 18 months earlier she'd had huge controversy with the Express Yourself video. Doing something ELSE provocative was just a natural progression. She was given a song by Lenny Kravitz, she liked it, she recorded it, it turned out someone else had written the lyrics.

And it wasn't the success of Justify My Love that shaped Erotica, it was the success of Vogue, Rescue Me and to a lesser extent This Used To Be My Playground. Shep Pettibone co-wrote and produced all but 3 songs including Deeper And Deeper, Rain, Thief Of Hearts, Words, Bad Girl which were a natural progression for her as a pop/dance artist. Andre Betts worked on 3 songs, 2 of which are forgettable and one of which - Waiting - is a solid song.

by Anonymousreply 14April 11, 2021 2:09 PM

Vogue the song copied Malcolm McLaren's Deeper Into Vogue

Rescue Me borrowed lyrics and melody from Dee Lite's Power of Love

The video for This Used to be My Playground is a carbon copy of a Boy George video.

Notice a pattern?

Justify also used a Public Enemy sample without asking for permission from the group. Chuck D was pissed.

by Anonymousreply 15April 11, 2021 2:40 PM

Don't forget Frozen was banned from radio play for years because she lost a copyright infringement case for stealing that one, too.

The video is the best part, though.

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by Anonymousreply 16April 11, 2021 2:57 PM

Madonna is a sociopath.

by Anonymousreply 17April 11, 2021 3:13 PM

McDonna a thief?!

Quelle shock.

by Anonymousreply 18April 11, 2021 4:20 PM

I hold Kravitz entirely responsible. He presented it to Madonna as a demo. He took principal songwriting and production credit for it. Adding insult to injury he even disparaged Madonna's version of it -- at one point referring to her as a 'just a bitch' who recorded one of his songs. Really nice guy...

by Anonymousreply 19April 11, 2021 4:35 PM

[quote]Oh dear, I was reading this thread thinking it was about Ingrid Casares.

Same!

by Anonymousreply 20April 11, 2021 5:02 PM

It was the Public Enemy sample that made the song a success, IMO.

by Anonymousreply 21April 11, 2021 6:07 PM

OP, you’re pathetic.

Seriously, get a life.

by Anonymousreply 22April 11, 2021 6:14 PM

R20 I thought it was about Cesar Chavez.

by Anonymousreply 23April 11, 2021 6:33 PM

Ingrid's version of the song is awful. That song would never have been a hit anywhere. What made the song a success was Madonna's star power and the gorgeous video.

by Anonymousreply 24April 11, 2021 6:47 PM

No, the sound of the record is what made it work. It was indeed a dry run for "Erotica."

by Anonymousreply 25April 11, 2021 6:57 PM

Ingrid Chavez was married to the gorgeous David Sylvian and had two daughters with him. She also was a protege of Prince.

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by Anonymousreply 26April 11, 2021 7:01 PM

[quote] didn't William Orbit pull a similar stunt with "Candy Perfume Girl"

Yes, Candy Perfume Girl was co-written by Princde's ex-fiance, Sussannah Melvoin, twin sister of Wendy of "Wendy & Lisa"

I heard her say Madonna demanded adding her own name to the credits. Don't know what Orbit's role was

by Anonymousreply 27April 11, 2021 7:02 PM

Oh yes R25, I should've added to my R24 post that the song itself is beautifully produced. I remember hearing it the first time at 18 in my bed waking up in the morning and wondering WHOSE song is that. The synth beat was so unusual for Madonna that it took a while to sink in that it was her, and tbh if I remember correctly it took a while, like a day or two, to realize it was her song. I was hugely into Depeche Mode and although the song went nowhere near their level of electronica I still loved its unrelenting machine-made sound. It's a great little weirdo pop number in every way but it was Madonna and her persona what really made it what it is. If you listen to Ingrid's version at OP's link you understand that immediately.

This was the first Madonna song after Live to Tell that I had truly liked. I wasn't really a fan of her but I'd soon appreciate her hugely more for giving exposure to gay people when Truth or Dare would come out in a few months time. The film was basically a longer version of Justify My Love video and it looked gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 28April 11, 2021 7:16 PM

We haven't heard Ingrid's version, just a re-recording.

by Anonymousreply 29April 11, 2021 7:19 PM

Madonna has everything. More than half of what she has was either given to her or she took from someone else while at the same time giving little to nothing in return. She has everything she could ever want and deep down inside she is still a miserable, insecure, needy and deeply jealous bitch extraordinaire.

R8 Forgive me for being in the dark but is Ingrid still trailing behind Madonna lapping up what leaking pussy juice Madge has left because she's desperate to get one more taste of that coochie?

by Anonymousreply 30April 11, 2021 7:28 PM

And yet we don't seem to get twenty threads a day about Ingrid Chavez's every Instagram post and morning dump reading material

by Anonymousreply 31April 11, 2021 7:36 PM

Did Madonna really give nothing in return? Reggie Lucas got the songwriting credit on "Physical Attraction" even though he didn't write it. Madonna made sure she got hers and she did business with those who demanded theirs too. I can't really cry for those who didn't advocate for themselves.

by Anonymousreply 32April 11, 2021 7:39 PM

[Quote] She has everything she could ever want

She doesn't have an enduring LTR. She doesn't have the ability to write lyrics well. The list goes on...

by Anonymousreply 33April 11, 2021 7:40 PM

R7 you believe everything Madonna says?

If you read Ingrid's interview, she says she and Lenny played the song for the record label exec who then took her copy. So I'm sure the exec spoke to Madonna about the song.

Madonna was more than happy to just write 1 single line in the song to get credit and copy everything else Ingrid did regarding the vocal. Absolutely no originality whatsoever

Madonna is the same person who copied a GAP commercial song "Sky Fits Heaven" for fuck's sake

by Anonymousreply 34April 11, 2021 7:45 PM

Funny how the only relevance these people have is the one time they worked with Madonna

by Anonymousreply 35April 11, 2021 7:48 PM

THIS is what she's bitching about? Terrible.

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by Anonymousreply 36April 11, 2021 7:50 PM

[quote]Anyway, it was a sucky thing for Kravitz to do to Chavez. I imagine that goes on all the time too (didn't William Orbit pull a similar stunt with "Candy Perfume Girl" and "Swim"?)

CPG, Swim and ROL are my favorite songs from the album, so I hunted down the demos online years back. This is what I remember.

For Candy Perfume Girl, Madonna didn't make any lyrical changes. I think she made some very slight melodic changes.

For ROL, she wrote the lyrics for the second verse. The demo had a female singer on it and she just repeated the first verse after the first chorus.

Swim has entirely different melodies and lyrics from the Sussanah Melvoin demo.

by Anonymousreply 37April 11, 2021 7:53 PM

"Stupid Thing" was changed very little - I think it was one line or couplet - to become "Nothing Faiils." That's pretty standard. And let's not pretend that Madonna is held in high regard as a songwriter.

by Anonymousreply 38April 11, 2021 7:55 PM

R34, Madge didn't "copy" the Gap commercial. She contacted the poet who wrote "What Fits?" which was used in the commercial. She asked for permission to use excerpts, slightly altered. He agreed. Every single creative person has borrowed, used, or have been inspired by things that have already been done. So to single Madge out as unoriginal is ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 39April 11, 2021 7:59 PM

Madge copied "Fever"!

by Anonymousreply 40April 11, 2021 8:01 PM

I don’t think I’ve heard Justify My Love since 1990.

by Anonymousreply 41April 11, 2021 8:02 PM

Madonna stole Into The Groove from Rick Astley's Together Forever

Madonna stole Causing A Commotion from The Beatles' Ticket To Ride

Madonna stole Cherish from Paula Abdul's Rush Rush

Madonna stole Hanky Panky from Charlene's I've Never Been To Me

Madonna stole Take A Bow from Debbie Gibson's Shake Your Love

Madonna stole Music from Color Me Badd's I Adore Mi Amor

Madonna stole Hung Up from Destiny's Child's Bills Bill Bills

Madonna stole Ghost Town from Vanilla Ice's Ice Ice Baby

by Anonymousreply 42April 11, 2021 8:03 PM

But she despite her best efforts, she didn't steal Antonio Banderas!

by Anonymousreply 43April 11, 2021 8:10 PM

R42

The chronology is off for some of these.

Into The Groove came out before Together Forever. And SAW wrote that not Rick Astley.

Cherish came out before Rush Rush. And again, Paula didn't write that. Peter Lord wrote that.

by Anonymousreply 44April 11, 2021 8:11 PM

It was a joke, hon.

by Anonymousreply 45April 11, 2021 8:12 PM

r17 fits the narcissist and histrionic personality disorders the most. . . most definitely cluster b type.

masculine guys, lesbians. feminists, terfs, your grand/parents on facebook typically display features closer to cluster A and followed by cluster B but rarely exhibit cluster C

fraus, divas, political grifters, politicians, social media influncers, tucutes, transtrenders, legbeards and most performers are typically possess more features closer to cluster B but compete for second in line with comorbid/cooccurring equally split among cluster a and cluster c as well. those at the highest end and lowest end of economic scales tend to feature more a & b but lack the self check of c.

effeminate, soft butch, limp wrist guys, incels, neckbeards, truscum, normies, anyone lacking street cred or tenure are generally more found among cluster c than cluster b and rarely cluster a. but the advent of self medicating addictions, including being hoors may transcend the default clustering.

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by Anonymousreply 46April 11, 2021 8:57 PM

There’s more to the story and it’s definitely Madonna being peak Madonna. She knew this song wasn’t hers but her and Lenny saw DOLLA$$$$$$ and the controversy alone was the hard on they needed to forget to ask if Ingrid if she was cool with being stone cold stolen from. Madonna was a great chameleon of looks to make girls feel empowered to be “their own style” but she’s lacking SUBSTANCE (or talent)

by Anonymousreply 47April 11, 2021 9:43 PM

Madonna had been adding her name to songs long before "Justify My Love" entered the picture. There would be no reason to rob Ingrid Chavez of due credit. As mentioned above, she has and "additional lyrics by" credit. The Chavez business was about Lenny. He saw "Justify My Love" as his and his alone. Madonna usually was listed as regular co-writer, not an "additional" lyricist.

by Anonymousreply 48April 11, 2021 9:53 PM

*she has an

by Anonymousreply 49April 11, 2021 9:54 PM

[quote] Madonna stole Ghost Town from Vanilla Ice's Ice Ice Baby

Vanilla Ice sampled from Queen and Bowie for Ice Ice Baby and got sued because he did it without their permission.

by Anonymousreply 50April 11, 2021 9:55 PM

the Justify My Love video -- at $10 a pop -- sold 500,000 copies. Does Madge perform this song live?

by Anonymousreply 51April 11, 2021 10:01 PM

[quote]Madonna is the same person who copied a GAP commercial song "Sky Fits Heaven" for fuck's sake

To what are you referring, R34? What are you specifically talking about?

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by Anonymousreply 52April 11, 2021 10:31 PM

This is the controversy? A few prose lines?

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by Anonymousreply 53April 11, 2021 10:41 PM

Didn't Lenny want to keep Ingrid's involvement a secret because he was fucking her while married to Lisa Bonet?

Pretty dumb on his part because it would have come out eventually.

I agree this was on Lenny but I'm sure Madonna must have known something since both Lenny and Andre Betts (co-producer) had worked with Ingrid already.

But reading about ROL's 20th anniversary, it was disappointing to learn that Madonna didn't have as much involvement as we were led to believe back in 1998. Susannah Melvoin kind of ripped the band-aid off that.

Funny how Madonna ripped off women in Prince's circle or who were indirectly associated with Prince.

by Anonymousreply 54April 11, 2021 11:11 PM

Madonna stole "Papa Don't Preach" from Patty Hill's "Happy Birthday to You"

by Anonymousreply 55April 12, 2021 12:40 AM

Sugar Don't Bite!

by Anonymousreply 56April 12, 2021 1:12 AM

All these years I thought Ingrid Chavez and Ingrid Casares were the same person.

Well.

by Anonymousreply 57April 12, 2021 1:50 AM

Madonna wanted to do a fuller collaboration with Prince but Prince didn't want to be overshadowed by a woman.

I know she gets dragged but you don't become the No.1 pop star in the world without having something. She couldn't really sing, she was an OK dancer but she was GENIUS at creating and selling her brand.

by Anonymousreply 58April 12, 2021 1:51 AM

[quote] Vogue the song copied Malcolm McLaren's Deeper Into Vogue

God, this stupid claim again. They sound nothing alike!

by Anonymousreply 59April 12, 2021 2:04 AM

I hope it's just JanBot being an idiot over and over in this thread, and there aren't others this stupid running around.

Lenny Kravitz, not Madonna, is to blame for denying Chavez her songwriting credit. Chavez knows it and has never said otherwise. She sued Kravitz, not Madonna, and Madonna's share of the song and royalties was unaffected by the lawsuit.

Madonna for at least the first couple decades of her career was pretty good about not not demanding unearned writing credits--she recorded several songs without any writing credit, even releasing a few of them as singles, and when collaborating she distinguished between co-writer credits and "additional lyrics by" credits. And she had no problem giving credits to those outside her usual writing partners when warranted.

by Anonymousreply 60April 12, 2021 2:21 AM

[quote] Madonna stole Hanky Panky from Charlene's I've Never Been To Me

Dear, lay down the crack pipe and get the help you so desperately need. These two songs are polar opposites in every way.

by Anonymousreply 61April 12, 2021 2:32 AM

[quote]Madonna stole "Papa Don't Preach" from Patty Hill's "Happy Birthday to You"

It was actually KELLY OSBOURNE who did the original of Papa Don't Preach, and Madonna stole that.

When Kelly heard that Madonna had ripped her off she got her Mexican maid Conchita to tweet "i can't even breathe right my now im crying so hard I just lost 1 of my best friends. I love you forever Madonna & will never forget the real you! But you stole my song and that's the end. cunt xoxo"

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by Anonymousreply 62April 12, 2021 7:32 AM

I can't preache

by Anonymousreply 63April 12, 2021 7:36 AM

My Fair Madonna....

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by Anonymousreply 64April 12, 2021 8:03 AM

Madonna stole Like A Prayer from Danny Wilson's Mary's Prayer

Danny Wilson stole Mary's Prayer from Bon Jovi's Living On A Prayer

Bon Jovi stole Living On A Prayer from Duran Duran's Save A Prayer

Duran Duran stole Save A Prayer from Aretha Franklin's I Say A Little Prayer

by Anonymousreply 65April 12, 2021 8:39 AM

That video at R64 is unwatchable with the image stretched horizontally like that. What kind of retard uploads that and thinks it looks right?

by Anonymousreply 66April 12, 2021 7:21 PM

R62 The mixing is awful and she manages to make Madonna sound like Whitney Houston. It's just as bad as Hilary Duff and Haylie Duff's tragic "Material Girl" cover.

Madge wasn't lying when she said the other girls couldn't do what she does.

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by Anonymousreply 67April 13, 2021 1:27 AM

[quote]That video at [R64] is unwatchable with the image stretched horizontally like that. What kind of retard uploads that and thinks it looks right?

What are you babbling about? The link is fine. When the video starts playing and the YouTube logo appears, click on it. Not Rocket Science.

by Anonymousreply 68April 13, 2021 1:43 AM

r52 Madonna looked good here. I think she kept this more down-to-earth look she would have fared better.

by Anonymousreply 69April 13, 2021 1:54 AM

R68, I watched it. The image is stretched horizontally and there’s no way for the viewer to fix it without importing it into a software program and editing it.

by Anonymousreply 70April 13, 2021 2:01 AM

She stole Ray of Light from Curtiss Maldoon.

by Anonymousreply 71April 13, 2021 2:54 AM

She stole Vogue from Kim carnes!

by Anonymousreply 72April 13, 2021 3:05 AM

From the article.

[quote]I would have to sign an agreement to stay silent about my roll.

Oh dear.

by Anonymousreply 73April 13, 2021 4:12 AM
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