Bill Maher eviscerates Oscars and its nominations which are full of sad and woke movies

TRUTH!

Hollywood is over. They just haven't quite realized it yet.

Agreed. I watched a bunch of nominated films last week and after I had watched Sound Of Metal, Minari, Nomadland and The Father, my brother texted me to see how my movie watching binge was going and what reccomendations I might have. I texted him back referring to the nominated films as "movies to slit your wrists to."

Spoilers aplenty, by the way.

Didn't watch. What movies would he have nominated?

[quote]What says the Datalounge ?

Oh good lord.

Remember the 80s and 90s? It was just hit after hit after hit. What the hell happened?

Same with Broadway. If I wanted to be lectured to, I'd talk to my parents........ and I wouldn't have to spend a couple hundred dollars. Only contemporary theater could produce King Kong as a female empowerment musical.

Maher's conception of a pre-"woke" Hollywood that made and nominated movies Because They Were Just Good is ludicrous on its face.

These rules are all so cranky now. Something's missing Billy. Something fun has seeped out of them.

These "cranky" rules (which few who criticize them have read closely, or at all) are actually incredibly easy to satisfy.

Maher seems to be reverting more and more to his old "libertarian"/asshole straight white pussyhound ways. Hard to believe there were several years there when I found him largely funny and provocative in good ways.

The Oscars have been a joke from the very beginning. I mean what do you expect from an award that was created by Louis B Mayer to sell movies like canned tomatoes.

Though I do like Wings.

Because HE is that cranky old man he likely japed at 20-25 years ago.

He is the worst sort of Libertarian/former liberal radicalized in the wake of 9/11. Like the late, unlamented Ron Silver, SNL alum Dennis Whathisname, Arlo Guthrie, and dozens more I could name.

Fuck him and his bathetic "Rules."

It's sad to me that minorities are FINALLY getting decent representation in the Oscar nominations only when people have stopped going to the movies.

At least Promising Young Woman's trailer promises some tawdry sex scenes and some hot guys.

R14 That's the thing though. Minority representation should extend to films that people actually want to see. The vast majority are not interested in docudramas or social justice themes masquerading as entertainment.

I haven’t really seen any movies from last year. I don’t watch the show that is linked to here.

I knew in June every winner this year would be non-white, it is MANDATORY. There awards are not for excellence anymore, they're quite openly a quota exercise in wokeness.

Few will watch and fewer will care. The Oscars are killing their brand as quickly as they can.

[quote]Bill Maher eviscerates Oscars and its nominations which are full of sad

Yes, OP. That was his point. They're all sad movies and maybe the reason people aren't seeing movies is that they don't seem to make good happy ones.

"It's not about entertainment. It's about suffering."

He's right, however. I think these films have their place. It's not about movies that seem to do well at the box office that are exciting and fun. It's about "Oscar Bait" movies that are sad and depressing. Of course you people complained when an action movie with a plot (The Black Panther) got nominated because it was a COMIC movie but it was also a movie that did well at the box office, that people saw, about a subject that hasn't been covered before, that took itself seriously while also being entertaining.

[quote]and woke movies

Right after saying we need more affordable housing for homeless people which is a roundabout way of saying the issues presented in this movies could be eased with a better social net. They make movies about these problems instead of trying to solve them.

I tend to love darker, depressing movies. So I don't get Maher's objection to those, as I am their target audience. But if the world needs more happy films? Cool. Isn't there a new Top Gun coming out?

I do hate wokeness is movie making. And I think most do.

yeah, wokeness is dreary. Noticing race and sexuality and power dynamics, all good, all fine, all part of the dynamic of movie making for ages. But wokeness is just a big stupid sledgehammer smashing any subtlety or sense or insight.

R21, your fellow conservatives feel the same about gay-themed movies, which they also think are "woke"

I don't understand why anyone who is gay would use "woke" as an insult.

The conservatives on the DL think a woke movie is any movie that acknowledges the existence of non-white people

The same conservatives who bitch about "woke" shit were bitching about Brokeback Mountain 15 years ago.

there's a difference r22. You can make a gay movie with actual humans, or you can make a woke movie shrieking at everyone that gay people, or these days trans people, are the absolute bestest people in human history and you better fucking believe it.

The problem with today's movies are that they are just no damn fun. Even the comic book movies have become boring and rote. Who wants to watch people standing in front of a blue screen for two hours?

I'm all for diversity. But for what it's worth, black cinema in the 90's was a golden age. Nothing today comes close to the brevity and depth that decade gave us.

And it is still possible r25. The early years of Superstore managed to be fun and still get the message across. The last year was shit, but for awhile they did it right. Blackish, on the other hand, was very mixed. There were some fun episodes, but sometimes it was just a tiresome lecture.

Fully agree and so many of the nominated films look dreary. I'm assuming due to theaters closing that the studios didn't release their best in 2020. Last year's Oscar nominated films Ford vs Ferrari, Joker, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, 1917, The Irishman, JoJo Rabbit, Judy, Bombshell, Parasite, Richard Jewell, Marriage Story, Little Women . . . were more diverse and not so bleak.

People seem to think the Oscars are the People’s Choice Awards. It doesn’t matter if people saw the films or not. Their focus is on acting and directing period. It doesn’t matter how popular they were. This ceremony was closed originally, wasn’t it? Maybe they should go back to that. Drop the televised crap.

Can I admit I didn't hate Nomadland? Is that permitted?

Bill's still upset he was snubbed for Best Actor in "Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death "

Now I want to see that r30

[quote]Minority representation should extend to films that people actually want to see.

You mean like Will Smith movies, Dwayne Johnson movies, Denzel Washington movies, Kevin Hart movies, Madea movies, Jordan Peele movies, the Creed series, Black Panther, etc.?

I'd have been more convinced by his crabby diatribe if he had listed 5 or 6 "entertaining" movies that should have been nominated.

R33 What would those 5 or 6 'entertaining' movies be?

Bill Maher's stand-up was the last crowd event I went to. He went off on a woman in the audience who yelled "You're a misogynist" at him, turned it into a big 3-minute anti-"woke" rant. It seemed very staged, in hindsight.

I think a "What was your last pre-Covid event?" thread has potential.

That's what I wonder, r34

[quote] Of course you people complained when an action movie with a plot (The Black Panther) got nominated because it was a COMIC movie

"you people"

WTF do you mean by that?

I predict that sad and woke movies are going to be rare for the next couple of years now that people are vaccinated and starting to live normal lives again. They will want to celebrate and watch fun blockbusters again. The last thing they want right now is to watch some depressing movie. Just wait and see.

Nobody watches that guy anymore

Who were the two very unattractive Black people whose images were randomly inserted during his monologue, it seemed very strange and obscure and I wasn’t sure what point they were supposed make in reference to the Woke movies?

I don't understand why DLers (or anyone) think that those of us rolling our eyes at "wokeness" means you're conservative.

I, for one, am not. Never have been, never will be. I'm all about progress; for gays, women, POC. Not to mention I'm for a green economy. Workers rights. Taxing the rich. A big social safety net. Giving immigrants the chance to be here legally and with dignity. Revamping our public education to even the playing field. Health care for all. The list goes on.

I'm a tried and true liberal Democrat. To me, a big part of being a liberal is avoiding dogmatic thought. Dogma = conservatism = fundamentalism = lack of reasoning = control by a few = tyranny.

Wokeness is just a new bible. You believe in it or you die.

Fuck that. And, of course, telling artists what they can and can't create? That's NEVER been a good sign.

But I'm a conservative.

Sure, Jan.

I work in Hollywood and it's a monoculture of people terrified of being labelled as racist. This is not the free environment needed for creative expression. Movies are now a niche artform dominated by woke Lefists who would never have made it working up from the mailroom and working their asses off, as I did. BTW I know for a fact that Maher fucks his interns. This girl I know of was Asian but who know where his tastes run to....

R42 'I know for a fact that Maher fucks his interns'

Sounds just like a Bill I knew

Nobody gives a shit what you think, R41.

We’re tired of Bill Maher’s endless repetitive complaints about wokeness. We heard him the first 438 times.

no we're not r44

Yes we are, R45

No we aren't r46.

your turn.

"Hollywood" ran out of ideas years ago. The franchises and reboots are indicative of an industry in its death throes. The racist, hypocritical "diversity" harangue is simply the final nail in the industry's coffin.

R42, what grade do they get?

have any of them gotten a job on the show later?

Does he pressure them or just ask?

Oh great goolymoogly.

The reason more people saw Oscar nominated films of yesteryear is because there were only like 12 MOVIES RELEASED THE WHOLE GODDAMN YEAR.

And you want upbeat movies and new ideas? You think Citizen Kane was a "feel good" movie? You think they turned the novel Gone With the Wind into a movie because "Hollywood is out of ideas?" Pffft.

Holy fuck this is grasping at straws. What a bunch of bitter old queens (maher included).

It was weird when he talked about feel good movies of yore and one of the first images was Grapes of Wrath.

R7 You only remember the hits. The 80s and 90s had plenty of shitty movies. You're not looking hard enough if you think good movies are a thing of the past.

nah r50 there were never just 12 movies released per year. Maybe the first year movies were invented but the studio system churned out tons of films as soon as it got going.

Oh never mind. I see r50 is that same deranged contrarian. Best to ignore.

I just want to see nice-looking white people doing interesting things. Is that so wrong?

R55 In beautiful homes with lovely things.

Watched Maher for years, no question he changed during the Trump years and his experience with a liberal arts college a while back left a bitter taste in his bong. Now he can't shut up about cancel culture and I guess that's his right, but its also mine to start tuning out. Too bad.

a prick is a prick of course, unless it is,,,, Bill M. of course..... why does such an a hole receive so much slacK? he is creepy as fuck, and not in a good way.

R55 is obviously unaware or pretends to be stupid about the Black film industry, which produces films and TV series by, for and about the Black community, where nary a White (or any other race for that matter) can be seen. They are available for free streaming on various online sites.

R50/r51 not necessarily feel good, just entertaining movies - and for adults. Reds was on there too, not exactly an upbeat movie. Some films were more art than entertainment and vice versa, but never did they all feel like they had to check certain boxes and fill a quota. That was his point.

He annoys me a lot, and while I used to watch him in the 00s, I just can't now.

Having said that, I agreed with what he was saying to a point. Also, he did show pictures of Schindler's List and 12 Years A Slave among others behind him that would be considered sad and depressing but I thought his point was they were better made, that they weren't just preaching, without enough thought being put into the story.

I watched Us last night. I just thought it was all a good theme with a not very good story. Which makes it dull to watch, I think. In On Writing Stephen King talks about the importance of getting story first, and then layering the themes on top of it, and I think that's when something really shines. Compare Us with Parasite. Both about class. Parasite was really entertaining to watch and you can think about the themes afterwards and really enjoy how well they came together. Us wasn't well made like that, in my opinion.

But what about those weird flashes of Black people, were they in the woke movies?

Thanks for saying it R41. You aren't alone.

1. A good script. Not available.

2. Compelling characters. Not available.

3. A good film editor. Hard to find.

The Venn diagram of "good" and "feel good" movies is pretty much two separate circles.

R62, you must never have watched Real Time. Those other people were guests on his panel that evening. They often insert reaction shots of the guests during Bill's New Rules monologues.

R66 Thanks, I’ve never seen his show, I thought he was a standup comedian.

Whoever said there's 12 movies a year once must be 100 and older than Prince Phillip. Even in the 80's there'd be 5 releases per week at least.

A little off topic. We went to see him in Macon, GA. Partner needed to pee, ticket girl waved us down to the facilities. Then we got waved into the democratic fund raiser that was happening in an exclusive bar on premise.

It was interesting talking to the people that had bought their way in. Such liberals in Macon GA. the liquor was flowing like water and everybody was having a blast.

It gave me some hope.

Streaming has made Hollywood, and thus the Oscars, irrelevant. Nobody ever cared about the awards, they tuned in for the glamor. But social media has oversaturated us with celebs. Boring.

Awards shows have become 3 hours of political grandstanding. There are too many other choices on TV to stoop to subjecting one's self to that trifling crap.

Bill Maher is trying to prevent another Trump by trying to tell Libs to get over woke culture. Too bad it's falling on deaf ears.

[quote]Awards shows have become 3 hours of political grandstanding.

It always cracks me up when I remember Ricky Gervais opening by telling people to just accept their award and sit down again as most of them had barely graduated high school and no one cares about their opinions, and was then followed later on by Michelle Williams standing up and giving some long speech about some cause or other.

Jesus, could he be more of a "Get off my lawn, you woke progressives!" gramps? Will he berate an empty chair on stage next?

The tide is turning against the absolutely toxic status quo of straight, white men doing their best to make minorities feel small and powerless. And Maher has nothing better to do than whine that it's so unfair that white men lose their privilege to be dicks to minorities and have to accept the existence and endure entertainment not pandering to straight, white men. Oh, what a world! *rolling eyes*

They are fashion shows now, as Glenda Jackson says.

TOO MANY CAR CRASHES AND CGI MOVIES! Now it’s TOO MANY SAD MOVIES! Can never satisfy old people. Always got to complain about something.

In general terms he might have a point when in the old days people were entertained by the good guys winning the battle against the bad guys. There was more feel-good entertainment. And that kind of entertainment is still around. It just involves comic book characters and arcs that last for several movies, and TV shows, instead of a single one. We live in a movie (and TV) franchise era where everything's connected to fit the brand and create brand loyalty by creating a fandom demographic and supplying said fandom with new content ready to be consumed by said fandom in a shorter time (incorporating movies and TV shows within the franchise formula).

Maher's attempt of a distinction between happy vs. sad movies is rather silly and simplistic and, to me, it feels like Maher is talking down to his audience like Liberals are as stupid as Deplorables. And, to me, that seems insulting.

What R2 said.

Does he provide a list of "woke" films?

R75 blah blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzz nothing.

r78. What a well put together argument. Can't wait for more of your absolutely valid contributions. *rolling eyes*

It's all bullshit unless I win.

I listened to the Maher comments a second time - I saw the actual show yesterday - and I have a different takeaway than a number of you guys are giving it.

I'm not hearing him complain about message - or "woke" - films; I hear him complaining about message films that lack entertainment value.

Some posters above (like R55) are bringing up race, but some of the negative examples Maher uses (at least to my understanding) are not about race: Promising Young Woman, Sound of Metal, The Father, Nomadland.

Maher's point is that there is a the relentless amount of suffering and sadness in the overwhelming majority of Best Picture nominees.

His issue could be summed up in his line: "Would it kill you once in a while to make a movie where I don't want to take a bath with the toaster?"

Or this line: "The Oscars, brought to you by razor blades, Kleenex and rope."

Or this: "We all had a rough year. A little escapism would've been appreciated."

The made up example he uses as a logical conclusion is the movie title, "The Immigrant Who Shit in a Coffee Can."

There were examples that he used of old movies that were both entertaining as well as having a message, such as Reds, Do the Right Thing, Milk, Schindler's List & 12 Years a Slave.

His point seems to be that movies can't be just about suffering.

Complaining about wokeness is usually a sign of racism, and racism is usually a sign of transphobia.

Bill has an absolute point. It’s hard to imagine movies like Moonstruck and Working Girl being made in this climate. We will be watching those movies for decades... can we say the same about Moonlight or Nomadland or Minari. This year’s crop of films seems like we’ve reached the tipping point where they all feel like one gigantic slog of a homework assignment.

It's about overcoming adversity. Not being defeated by it. Every movie has a main struggle, a conflict and the lead or leading characters acquiring personal growth, at the end, through their actions throughout the movie. Has that formula changed? I think not.

I love Nomadland and I've watched it twice already.

So sue me.

With all the screenwriters stuck in quarantine during 2020 I have a feeling the subject matter will get even worse. Just wait until Hollywood starts releasing movies centered around Covid19. It'll be like that godawful "Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close" film about 9/11.

It was a bad year for movies to begin with. I can't think of any better choices for this year's Oscar nominees.

I’m already hearing that next year’s Oscars will not allow any white actors, producers, or directors to be nominated.

I didn't find Nomadland as depressing as many made it out to be. After watching it I felt I'd be doing the same thing given the choices of those people at that age. There were sad moments, but overall I found the film somewhat life-affirming.

Same with Sound of Metal. There was just something about the film that gave beauty to what the main character was left with.

I think Bill Maher should host next year's Oscars.

R90 - I think we should cancel the Oscars completely.

R91 I think they should continue for the sake of being able to read about them the next day on DL.

I found Promising Young Woman, Chicago 7, Sound of Metal, Minari . . . all wonderfully entertaining.

Who is Bill Maher?

I laughed when he said people are sick of depressing movies and would rather watch the Motley Crue movie on Netflix.

R94 I’m not Gen Z and I struggle to really know who he is, I guess if you don’t have HBO or TMC or whoever it is he’s on you don’t really know him. It’s not like you come upon his show flipping channels.

I wonder if he'll go all Glenn Greenwald in Brazil in his dotage.

What happened to movies isn't rocket science.

Streaming TV happened and the freedom that went with it, and the talented people who used to make movies are now making eight-episode series for Netflix or Hulu and whatever stigma there once was to appearing on a TV series is no more.

I don't care how "depressing" a movie's subject matter is, if the movie is artfully made I am not depressed at all, but exhilarated. And who would use the word "entertaining" to describe SCHINDLER'S LIST?

Blacks are 13% of the population but deserve half or more of the nominations. Reparations now! Latinos and Asians are on their own. Black only baby.

Black voices are the only ones that matter in current media.

The "tHeSe MoViEs ArE tOo SaD!" argument has been going on forever. Letterman did a joke 17 years ago - something like "I believe it's important to watch some of the films nominated for the Oscars. On Monday, I'll see 'Mystic River'. Tuesday, I'll watch 'House of Sand and Fog'. Wednesday - 'Monster'. And on Thursday, I'm going to kill myself."

[quote] and whatever stigma there once was to appearing on a TV series is no more.

Except for Barbra. She's pretty much the last of the old school "movie stars don't do tv" holdouts.

R102, lol. Films reached peak "slit your wrists" realness around the era release of What Dreams May Come, Requiem for a Dream, Dancer in the Dark.

"Mystic River" was a great film.

Barbra sits on her ass all day.

“Just look at that group picture of all the nominees. There’s far too many white faces in there.”

Has Will Smith ever gotten a nomination?

R48 Ditto Broadway with its stage adaptations of movies: Tootsie, Pretty Woman, Spiderman, Mean Girls, Misery, Beetlejuice, The Lion King and it's jukebox musicals. Coming to Broadway in the summer of 2022 "Beautiful Noise" a new bio-musical based on the career of Neil Diamond!

R108 Two.

Best Actor for "Ali" and "The Pursuit of Happyness"

R96 Granny, ever hear of YouTube or Hulu? Stop with the channel flipping already!

I saw this. One thing you can say about Bill, he never minces words.

Has Jada weighed in yet?

With this old git everything always come back to legalizing marijuana.

A "Most Popular" Oscar category would be great. Maybe a "Best Comedy" or "Best Musical"...

Watch: black actors will basically sweep this year. Going beyond population percentages. But next year, if god forbid there are less poc nominees, outrage will ensue.

Even poc need to acknowledge this insanity. Unless they love the total artless bs that wokeness represents.

If I were an actor I'd probably want to avoid the Oscars completely.

Somehow, despite Maher’s evisceration, the Oscars will go on.

[quote] It's about overcoming adversity. Not being defeated by it. Every movie has a main struggle, a conflict and the lead or leading characters acquiring personal growth, at the end, through their actions throughout the movie.

This is true. Which is why Spielberg decided to make Schindler's List a more personal story with moments that were uplifting. There is nothing wrong with showing a character struggling, but audiences like to see the characters overcome adversity.

There is also a preachy element in today's films where the entire aim is to make the audience feel bad for empathizing with the hero. Or to just straight up make the audience feel guilty while getting lost in the irony that the filmmakers are exploiting other people's tragedy for profit and virtue points.

I actually don’t mind that the vast majority of this year’s films have dark undertones. My problem is with this pathetic virtue signaling that you’re seeing at all these award shows. The far left is all about virtue signaling. They love when someone is the first woman or the first black to do something. This woke exercise is actually insulting to actors of color because these award bodies are essentially saying: “we’re so sorry for our while guilt; here’s a participation trophy.” Woke bullshit that emphasizes diversity over talent is now in colleges, schools, corporations, Congress, major airlines, and even the military. And they wonder why the ratings for the Oscars suck every year.

If Hollywood truly wants to redeem itself and make a strong comeback, they need to do three things. First, make movies that people actually want to see. Don’t just hire POC and say you’re making a movie with a cast that looks like America. Find stories that are interesting and that people actually care about. Second, Hollywood needs to admit its hypocrisy and guilt in regards to protecting its villains - Weinstein, Franco, etc. Third and most importantly, stop with these quota exercises. Make sure representation is equal across the board for everybody. Don’t give an award or a high profile movie role just because somebody has the correct skin color. Also, actors tone down the politics a bit when you accept an award.

I'm with r120!

R118 Like the Super Bowl and the Grammys, I suspect the Oscars will see an all time low in viewership even during a pandemic. Go woke, go broke.

^ ditto the Golden Globes. All tarnished

[quote]Or this: "We all had a rough year. A little escapism would've been appreciated."

These movies were all well into production way before 2020. Remember, the roaring 20s followed the last pandemic. The world will emerge from this with more hope and happiness. If all else fails, McConnell and Trump will both be dead by the end of the 2020s. Boomers will be gone. Cool GenXers will be the elders. GenZ will tell the Millennials to shut up. All will be well in Hollywood.

[quote] It's sad to me that minorities are FINALLY getting decent representation in the Oscar nominations

Doesn't it seem contrived?

Is it out of proportion to their numbers in the population?

Shouldn't there be more white people in the NBA and NFL, yet all we hear about is the lack of blacks in MLB. If we're going quotas, then it should extend to sports also.

R108 yes, two too many.

Also, I want to hear more about this intern thing. Is it consensual?

[quote]Remember, the roaring 20s followed the last pandemic. The world will emerge from this with more hope and happiness.

The roaring 20s barely lasted 7 years. And what followed then?

R103 Is Barbra a hold out or are TV and streaming services and their audience not interested in her? Her last feature films were The Guilt Trip, Little Fockers and Meet the Fockers! And before that the dreadful BO dud The Mirror Has Two Faces in 1996!

^ Not a 'hold out'. More like put on hold indefinitely

As if people are falling over themselves to get a mannered, puffed up old woman on their show. Maybe she can do Yentl 2: The Aftermath and play a 30 year old Jewish man in turn of the century New York.

R28 'THEIR FOCUS is in acting and writing period'??????

Have you not heard of THEIR new Oscar diversity standards which is about inclusion not merit?

[quote]and the talented people who used to make movies are now making eight-episode series for Netflix or Hulu

More likely, eight episodes dragged out to ten episodes that really could have been done in only four but we gotta binge watch the fuck out of every single piece of shit made nowadays.

And be sure to dangle a loose ending or two to ensure at least three more seasons because nobody can get enough of this shit

How to fix it:

Easy.

Add a new choice to each of the categories. List the nominees along the last choice of "NONE OF THE ABOVE". Perhaps even leave a space for each voter to list who they think SHOULD get the Oscar.

And then give the vote totals for each category.

That would make the show more interesting.

It is very possible all the actors and the director this year will be people of color.

That should end Jada and her ilks complaints.

I think the Oscars are tiresome, and I think the worthless satellite industries that the Oscars fuels, like Bill Maher, are tiresome.

[quote]I just want to see nice-looking white people doing interesting things. Is that so wrong?

Ooooohh, R55, The Hallmark Channel/HMC's Movies & Mysteries is made to order for you!

[quote]Shouldn't there be more white people in the NBA and NFL, yet all we hear about is the lack of blacks in MLB. If we're going quotas, then it should extend to sports also.

There are mostly white players in the NFL and MLB. There are many black players in the NFL and NBA.

As for the NFL, at the start of the 2020 season, there were 10 black quarterbacks/game managers out of 35 quarterbacks total and that was the most in history.

You're not saying what you think you are about "sports."

R 139, please do your research.

The study said that the NBA was 18.3 percent white last season, which was 5 percent less than the season before. The league was also a record 22.3 percent international last season.

The data in the chart above, collected by The Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport (TIDES), shows that while 70% of NFL players are black, only 9% of managers in the league office are (that’s vs. 13% of Americans overall).

About those numbers. MLB has seen a small increase in the percent of Black players on opening-day rosters this year, with 7.8%, or 80 players, comprising the 30-man rosters, injured and restricted lists, according to analysis by USA TODAY Sports.Aug 14, 2020.

...hence the " concern" about the lack of blacks in MLB.

R41 Same here. Very liberal but think that distilling people to their skin color is a terrible idea and certainly does the opposite of empowering. Books like Oluo’s Mediocrity: the Dangerous Legacy of White Male America are racist and immaculate: No, it’s not only white American or European men who are racist. There is racism is all all ethnic groups. Yes, there are countless “mediocre” white men...as well as mediocre black men, Asian men, etc. And women. This book got a great review in the NYT.

Then you have someone like Robin di Angelo telling black people they need shrill white fraus like her to speak for them, that any disagreement with a coworker is due to race and that tests for school kids should be made easier for black students. Extremely offensive and condescending. Black people are not a monolith and don’t need things dumbed down for them. I can’t believe anyone buys into this cartoonish “woke” ideology.

We are all responsible for ourselves and blaming our lot in life in life on others is not only futile, but takes away one’s sense of agency. There will always be another guy who is richer, younger, better looking, better connected, etc than you. That’s life. The key is concentrate on yourself, work hard, make the right decisions or correct bad ones, and above all else, do not let yourself fall into the victim mentality trap.

Inaccurate not immaculate lol

[quote] There are mostly white players in the *NFL* and MLB. There are many black players in the *NFL* and NBA. You're not saying what you think you are about "sports."

Neither are you.

Robin DiAngelo has made a nice living for herself with all of this, her bank account's never been better. What she never says is that she lives in a wealthy Seattle neighborhood that's 99% white.

R144 and yet in her book she calls out and mocks a friend who texts her saying she would be afraid to live in a certain New Orleans neighborhood due to the high crime rate. Di Angelo accuses her of using “high crime rate” as code for black people and says she is racist.

[R120] An artist should be under no obligation to shape his/her material and characters to conform to political requirements. That's insane. If you legislate the contents of the imagination you won't get art - you'll get propaganda, which most movies now are, unfortunately. Whereas I can see that "representation" might matter some for a sitcom or formula SVU type show, the real artist must be left alone, whatever his/her hue.

It's a measure of the decline of the movies as an art form that it's being commandeered by the woke mob, who know nothing of art.

[quote] and yet in her book she calls out and mocks a friend who texts her saying she would be afraid to live in a certain New Orleans neighborhood due to the high crime rate.

Oh fucking hell I've been literally everywhere in New Orleans and trust me there are certain neighborhoods you would never want to set foot in, never mind live there. The world can be a dangerous place, that's just reality.

Well R148 di Angelo certainly didn’t buy a home there...but somehow her friend is racist for not wanting to either.

If Maher is so hard up for feel good material he should just stick to the Hallmark Channel.

Most of the major Hollywood releases you would have seen in a given year have been held until theaters can sell most or all of their seats. So it shouldn't surprise anyone that the Oscar list looks the way it does: mostly indie films available at least in part via streaming. In a normal year, at least some of these films wouldn't make the cut.

All of the posters here bitching about "wokeness" and "more Black nominees than their percentage of the population" sound like they've been watching too much Tucker Carlson. Given decades of white-only nominees at the Oscars (far outstripping their percentage of the population BTW) with only occasional representation by any non-white, only the insecure and churlish are complaining.

[R150] Twisted logic tainted by vengeance disguised as "justice."

[quote]If Maher is so hard up for feel good material he should just stick to the Hallmark Channel.

But I mentioned in R81, that isn't his argument.

[quote]His point seems to be that movies can't be just about suffering

But that is my specialty!!! Offscreen and on!!! They called me fat at Julliard!!!

I went to high school in a high-crime, yes predominantly Black area, not only would I not live in that neighborhood, none of the Blacks I knew with money would send their kids to that high school. They either went private or sent their kids to the Whiter/more Asian school.

Can't stand the DiAngelo types--they have no actual life experience with POC or poor people if any shade, but oh the fucking lectures they live to give.

I think it's important to have political themes in films. All the best ones do, but they're usually so well mixed into the story and characters that you rarely notice.

Maybe it's a response to the awful Trump White House that did everything in its power to marginalize the marginalized even more than before, but there are ways to bake in political themes without making it seem like a very special episode of Saved By the Bell where the writing is as subtle as a sledgehammer.

I once attended the end of the year screenings of a film school, because one of my friends went there and had made a film she wanted me to see. Before I could get to hers, I saw 2 hours worth of the most pretentious 5 minute films I'd ever seen in my life. They were bringing up important issues like rape, racism, gay rights, abortion, incest, etc. but they refused (or didn't have the time) to give us characters we could root for or relate to. It wanted us to root for them simply because they were a victim of some hate crime or injustice of some sort and that's, frankly, just not good enough. We only care about characters when they feel like people we know - not political pundits spewing out statistics or nameless victims.

I compare it to when you first hear that there's a big tragedy like a school shooting or plane crash. When you hear the news, if you have any empathy whatsoever, you'll think "oh, no. That's awful." But are you going to cry about it? Of course not. Not unless you knew one of the victims. It's only later when you hear their friends and family members talking about them on the news that you start to feel that tug on your heartstrings. Suddenly, victim #12 becomes a real flesh and blood person who had friends, family, dreams, and goals of their own.

This is what a lot of these movies do. They only give you the horrible and tragic part without making you care about anyone going through it. Movies like that usually get forgotten as the years go on.

R136 Don't count on it. She concerned that her little Willie doesn't have an Oscar!

Maybe these "Wokes" need to learn about subtext.

Bill must be gay. why is he thinking about Oscars.

Longingly envisioning BM taking a bath with his toaster...

I find DiAngelo to be quite sinister. This whole messing with people's minds thing: "You either say you're a racist and therefore you are, or you say you're not a racist, which is being defensive, and so you are a racist" is sick. It's like something from a novel by Kafka. It used to be that her kind of arguing would be dismissed immediately by everyone because it was a fallacy, now it sells books and creates lucrative seminars. This isn't going to help us as a species.

R160 I blame the people buying her book and hiring her. I admit, I did read it when it came out in 2018. It’s not well written and it all strictly anecdotal. I was amazed at how it blew up last year. I wonder how many people are posting photos of it in Instagram not because they are convinced of her “arguments” but because they are virtue signaling.

It's true that the books and films that are lauded and taken most seriously by critics these days are always about tragedy and dysfunction. Not interested, myself. I like beauty, escapism, uplift.

R161, yeah I get this real feeling it's people wanting to signal to others how good they are as to why they go on about it.

I hate saying it, but a girl I know who I've always thought highly of started going on about what an important book it was for white people to read to understand racism and my opinion of her has never been the same.

Also, when I looked at reviews on goodreads, any fair crticism of the book (I'm not talking 'this books sucks!' but actual well thought out criticism) is met by a heap of people saying: "your comments are exactly why this book is necessary", or "your comments prove the book's point" etc. It's set itself up to, in its own mind, be impossible to criticise. This is happening a lot in discourse now, it's "if you disagree with this, you're an X". It makes me laugh to think of the rage when some of these people go to university and try to write an essay with arguments like that and don't get taken seriously, haha.

Or maybe they do now. Which is a depressing thought.

R163 I thought this writer summed up my feelings about the book better than I do.

Thanks R164! An excellent read.