why did the union vote go so much in Amazon's favor?

They pay $15/hour in a state where most people make less than half that, OP

And offer lots of overtime.

People didn't want to mess up a good thing.

There was a Daily (NYT podcast) episode about it and it seems like a lot of people didn't find the things the unions were complaining about to be problematic.

Only 55% of the employees voted.

What a crushing defeat for the labor movement.

OMG! Did they use Dominion voting machines??!

I’m on it bitches!!!

Uneducated people often vote against their best interests.

Jesus likes it that way.

Because for the last 60+ years labor unions and the Democratic Party have completely fucked up messaging regarding labor, labor relations, and the role/purpose of closed vs open shops.

Much like the 2nd wave of black civil rights totally sat on their collective asses, confident all their hard work at the federal level would never be undone.

Both groups realized too late that lasting change MUST work from the bottom up, not top DOWN. Having *seemingly* ceded control to the federal government, anti-union, anti-black, and anti-gay activists and their allies worked to stack the decks from dogcatcher to School Board to Governor to Senator to POTUS to SCOTUS. Bottom UP, where lasting change is truly made.

I've never understood why labor unions allowed themselves to be corrupted by the Mafia and deadbeat employees who should've been sacked, not allowed to fester in jobs at which they refused to work. And then ceded authority on labor and employee relations to company HR shops that are company-loyal. I mean, who pays the HR rep, organized labor, or the company?

ALABAMA

You can either take the R1 argument that the employees didn’t want it or R8 that Amazon used their power to sway the vote in their favor. In the end, it is a combination of both however.

I am more convinced by the R1 argument however. They get 15 an hour. It is the best job in the area. They don’t want to mess it up and risk Amazon leaving. People may want a union but they don’t want to be the guinea pig.

My dad used to be a major union guy, was an officer, etc. He now says unions are horrible and drove all the work out of the USA.

How much of their $15 an hour would go to union dues? When I worked at the phone company, the CWA got 3% of total weekly pay.

Because people finally realize that the only people who benefit from unions are the people running them. Unions are responsible for the movement of manufacturing out of the US. They’ve outlived the useful and necessary function they were formed to address. Hopefully people will continue to wake up to the scam.

Perhaps, R11, but WITHOUT labor unions those workers never would've made anywhere close to that $15/hour.

Let alone have a 40-hour week as standard, receive overtime, have any semblance of workplace health and safety, or be allowed to go to the fucking bathroom, ffs.

Or any other of the eighty-eleventy other concessions we'd never have but for organized labor.

Unions stopped caring about anybody but themselves generations ago. Otherwise Jimmy Hoffa would not have disappeared.

Because most people don't like their situation changing. Most people don't want to get involved. They get comfortable, have a routine and don't want it changing.

Same reason why most people won't talk to cops if they witness a crime, film a crime rather than stop it, ignore people that are injured "because they have somewhere to be" etc. etc. etc.

They are fools. And there are better paying warehouse jobs in Alabama. They are hourly wage slaves trapped and worried it could get worse and it could. The only way we'll deliver living wages and universal health care is through government. Government will have to tax these corporations appropriately and return workers to a dignified lifestyle in a very rich country. There is zero excuse for this bullshit, in. rich country.

Just because some unions experience bad management, doesn't make the concept itself bad. R13 put it perfectly. Don't buy into anti union sentiment, like the lie that unions drove out jobs. Jobs left because they found slave labor elsewhere and shipping improved. Same thing will occur with AI transporting, but bet you'll here it was the union that pushed companies into it 🙄

It failed for the same reasons it failed at every Walmart. Company intimidation.

Hope Amazon workers enjoy getting paid with "digital rewards" (aka the company store credits of the 1800s) like the chumps they are.

***Hear not here*** (the downside to swiping instead of typing)

What R7 said.

Southerners have been indoctrinated against unions for many, many years. They have been told unions are "socialism" and "communism." So they vote against their own best interests.

Stupid.

I think there's more to come on this......stay tuned

You don't think if they unionized, Amazon would have closed the location down? Maybe, not immediately, but a short time later?

They should have brought in Norma Rae.

Unions are necessary and important. And like all things - including (if not more so) the private sector, wherever there is a systemic hierarchy, corruption can easily seep in.

My husband is in the Department of Education, and thank god for that. We have health and dental insurance for life. His salary as a clinical social worker with two masters, will top out at around 130k but this is after 30 years (he is in year 20). He’ll get 50% of that for his pension in addition to a subsidized investment account with a guaranteed 7% return. He has been investing 20% of his salary in that for well over 10 years. He’s also getting another smaller pension from his very first job out of college.

I’m not gloating. This should be less the exception and more the rule for way more people.

I agree dead weight should be ejected - no one is saying there shouldn’t be reform. In fact, most unions, besides the cops and firemen of course, have been very good about making concessions. The dynamic at play here is one of obfuscation and deception on the part of Amazon. They have all the power and all the leverage. This campaign for unionization never had a chance.

Anyone cheering the outcome here

Mention of Amazon and USPS in cahoots...(regarding drop boxes) will be interesting to see if that goes somewhere

A lot of people believe when bosses tell them “you’re lucky to have a job”.

“”Anyone cheering the outcome here”

Meant to say: Anyone cheering the outcome here is rooting for the enemy.

[quote]The only way we'll deliver living wages and universal health care is through government. Government will have to tax these corporations appropriately and return workers to a dignified lifestyle in a very rich country. There is zero excuse for this bullshit, in. rich country.

R16 is exactly what I was talking about @R6 and R13. Decades of fucked up messaging, co-opting of unions by organized crime and lazy fat cat union "organizers," a complete misreading of the room by the Democratic Party, and the utter failure of unions and their allies to adjust to changes wrought by Nixon and Reagan.

R16's insistence on the federal government as the Great White Father to set things right is exactly the problem we're facing. We must operate on the local, regional, AND federal level. We need to put in the work to educate workers and help them understand the benefits of labor unions and collectively organizing in 2021.

Police and Fire unions are the only unions that white people support.

R28 I am R16 and you are living in a dream. Locally these workers voted for Trump. There is not shame in the USA joining the post industrial world and allowing government to take over the guarantee of universal health care. Also, higher education must tumble in price. Those two essential services to a population that the USA is failing in comparison to its economic peers. I would feel a LOT better about people work ing for 15 bucks an hour if I knew they could see a doctor and get a prescription for 15 bucks a well. And if they or their children worked hard, they could join the middle class through higher education and without debt.

R30 nails it.

[quote] There was a Daily (NYT podcast) episode about it and it seems like a lot of people didn't find the things the unions were complaining about to be problematic

I am from NYC, but have moved to Georgia. The people in the South don't know what a good job is. This Amazon job is a dream job to most of them

Most people in the South don't have a college education or any kind of vocational training. That leaves part time retail/restaurant jobs or manufacturing jobs for a large majority of them

People who work in manufacturing in the South work in factories that are barely air conditioned and a lot don't even have any air conditioning. They work their asses off for $8 to $12 an hour. They have shitty insurance through work that most can't afford to use because the deductibles are too high. Half of them get food stamps, medicaid for their kids and barely live paycheck to paycheck. And they only get 1 week of vacation after a year, which many don't last a year at any company because the companies know they can treat people like shit and they don't have a lot of other jobs to choose from

This is all they know

"Unions stopped caring about anybody but themselves generations ago. Otherwise Jimmy Hoffa would not have disappeared."

jimmy Hoffa disappeared because he thought the mob was on his side and would get out of his way. They didn't. It's not on anyone's side, even its members.

The obvious answer is the workers, after careful consideration, determined that based on the facts, it was not in their self-interest to join the union. They get to decide what is best for them.

[quote] WITHOUT labor unions those workers never would've made anywhere close to that $15/hour.

You got anything else you want to pull out of your ass?

"Look For the Union Label"; my grandmother was a life-time ILGWU member in Philly; both parents were union members, as is my sister (all government employees). Even though it was in our immediate/extended family's DNA, I never worked in a position that offered union membership. I don't think I've missed much . . .

It's why abused spouses stay in relationships.

They think it's the best they can do and that whole "the devil you know" mindset.

It really is about messaging and corporations have finessed their anti-union messaging fantastically over several decades. The workers should've just taken note of how hard Amazon was fighting against the union. Your corporate bosses don't fight for employees, they fight for themselves and shareholders..

But, inherently, far too many people are ignorant and afraid of change so they'll vote for status quo every time.

The other issue is that the union won’t leave it alone even after the vote- you can blame this tact on Trump. This will leave a lingering uncertainty that works against any future good faith negotiations. Trump opened to door on publicly attacking foes, airing dirty laundry, lobbing baseless accusations and holding grudges. It’s now “OK” to do this when you don’t’ get the exact results you want out of negotiations. The way to get higher salary and better benefits is to publicly expose Amazon when they do wrong. They work within supply and demand and inside a local economy,

Yet you can bet If they didn’t close the factory, they’d minimize it and build another at the bordering state.

People are stupid and scared. Just like jeffy wants them to be.

There are many reasons why this attempt to unionize Amazon went down in flames. Paramount among them was what plagues (mostly white) liberal democrats and or various things they support; a patronizing belief that all minorities (POC, Latino/Hispanic/gays, etc....) are simply one monolithic group they can speak to with a single voice.

Union went down to that Bessemer warehouse were nearly 90% of Amazon workers were POC spouting all sorts of BLM nonsense in attempts to tie unionization into recent events. That turned many people off who saw it as insulting and not at all speaking to just how union representation would change things.

Amazon pays damn good wages for that area of country along with a pretty good overall compensation. Certainly Amazon offers far better than probably 50% or more of private industry down there, so just what was the union offering to do for these workers?

What benefits to joining the union did the organizers tell the workers?

At R16 you said "And there are better paying warehouse jobs in Alabama."

At R28 you said "Locally these workers voted for Trump."

Neither statement is even remotely correct.

One of the main issues was that Amazon's wages were so much higher and benefits so much better (health care covered from day 1) that these workers were worried about giving up the best thing that had happened to them in years.

Which leads into your second comment: the workforce is primarily Black. And Black people, even in Alabama, did not vote for Trump.

As per other posters, the union seemed to have misread the crowd--given the history of discrimination in Alabama, the workers were thrilled that Amazon was willing to hire Black people for these well-paying jobs.

But making shit up to support an incorrect argument--especially blatant falsehoods--never a good move.

R41 -- The Daily podcast interviewed one woman who had become a union organizer.

Rather than have me summarize it, it's worth a listen - link below. (You can listen in your browser, you don't need Apple Podcasts)

I love talking about labor issues, so I have a bit to say here. I was following along with this labor election pretty closely (Kim Kelly aka @grimkim on Twitter had great coverage of it) and it came as a bit of a surprise to me that the RWDSU union lost this election by so much. However, when reading a lot of the post count analysis, two things became clear as to the real reasons for the defeat.

The first is the issue of the drop off box at the warehouse and it's not a minor issue either. Not only did Amazon violate federal labor law in installing the box, they illegally used company influence and pressure on the USPS to have them install it there. There's a lot of issues in regards to those communications and whether there were any bribes or deals made to make this happen, to the point where it might have been criminal.

On top of that, the way the ballots came in to the NLRB headquarters from the drop box is incredibly suspect. There were two dumpings on February 10th and the 17th, both had only No votes, for a total of about 100. Statistically, it's impossible for there to only be no votes in such a pile, unless there was either undue influence applied or, as I suspect, Amazon sorted through the drop box and dumped out potential yes votes, explaining why only 55% of the workers participated.

If it is found that Amazon tossed out votes, then the NLRB should toss out the results and force Amazon to hold another election, this time following the rules. The RWDSU had said that when they did their initial canvassing, 17000 workers signed cards pledging to vote for the union, but only 700 ended up voting yes. Either that's a big oversight on behalf of the union or, more likely, Amazon either fired some of the yes workers or tossed out the voted of others or both. They already held up 500 or so votes through challenges. It wouldn't surprise me if they simply tossed out the rest to get the result they wanted.

The second issue pertains to the union itself. No one can say that there wasn't a tremendous amount of nudging to get the workers to vote for the union by outside sources. You had Biden practically come out and encourage a vote for it, you had Bernie Sanders fly down to Bessemer to meet with the workers for a rally and you even had the support of Marco Rubio, of all people, telling workers to vote yes. Trump could have outright told them to vote yes and the result likely would have been the same. This is not the 1930's where companies brought in strike breakers and scabs to brutalize and murder striking workers. Though there was undue influence and votes may have been illegally tossed, the environment was much more conducive to voting yes than in previous decades. Much of the fault here lies with the union itself.

Workers at Amazon may not be the brightest bulbs in the box, but information about the activities of the RWDSU union get around, such as their handling of COVID cases at a Tyson plant where their union represents workers.

[Quote] “The Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union (RWDSU) oversees barbaric conditions at Tyson factories in the US South. At the Tyson plant in Camilla, Georgia, three workers have died of COVID-19 infection. The plant appears to be the center of a coronavirus outbreak in the Albany, Georgia area, which leads the state in infections. As of this writing the plant was still in operation.

[Quote] “A Tyson beef plant in Goodlettsville, Tennessee and another Tyson poultry plant in Shelbyville are at the center of COVID-19 outbreaks in that state. The Goodlettsville facility employs about 1,600, and Shelbyville has about 1,000 workers. As of Monday, there were 79 cases at the Shelbyville plant and 120 at Goodlettsville.

[Quote] “Workers described lax to nonexistent safety conditions inside the plants and a union that is in the pockets of management. The Shelbyville plant is set to close this weekend for three days for cleaning. Meanwhile, the RWDSU has praised Tyson for protecting workers while keeping the plant open.”

[Quote] Speaking to World Socialist Web Site reporter Zac Corrigan, Chris, a former worker at the Tyson Shelbyville, Tennessee facility, said, “Most people there work over eight hours a day and night. There are no masks to protect us. There was no being six feet apart from people.

[Quote] “They cook food for the workers there, and the people that cook it don’t wear masks over their faces.”

[Quote] When asked about what measures the RWDSU and management were taking to protect workers, he said, “While I was there, they weren’t doing anything about it.”

So when workers pointed to how the RWDSU union wasn't necessarily going to help them out and represent their interests, this is exactly what they are talking about. When you have an organization that has explicit ties to the Democratic party, you are going to have decisions by bureaucrats that are designed to work in the best interests of Biden's political fortunes, rather than in the best interests of workers, hence the push by the UFT to get teachers back to the classroom, in spite of the rise of variants and their infectiousness in school aged children.

[quote] Trump could have outright told them to vote yes and the result likely would have been the same

Again, given that the vast majority of workers were Black, it's likely that Trump endorsing the union would have resulted in an even more lopsided defeat.

When the real left, and not the Bernie/AOC faux left, complain about unions being managers for corporations and political interests, what they are referring to is the capability of workers to shut down production in the form of strikes. Alabama was a dumb place to try to form a union because the environment there is relatively hostile to unions and they don't necessarily have the guts to engage in labor stoppages to advance their interests. You would think that the RWDSU would have more wisely chosen a place in the Northeast or Midwest to hold their first union election, considering the stakes, because they have a history of strong unions and are more likely to vote yes than in the South. However, the problem for the RWDSU is that there are already independent, rank and file committees in much of these warehouses and they are taking more militant action to shut down Amazon's operations in order to gain their demands.

Amazonians United is a loosely based coalition of worker collectives in six cities that coordinate actions to advance their own interests. Their methods are effective because they work from the store floor up and they don't have to worry about access to advance their cause. Amazon can't easily shut them out as they can a union representative. What the Democrats fear from these more militant groups, who have been the reason that Amazon has given such generous benefits in the first place, as mentioned in R1, is their organizing causing a significant shutdown of the economy, which would damage Biden politically. Rather than allow their groups to proliferate into more warehouses across the country, they hoped that the RWDSU election would corral this energy back into unions they have connections with, so as to tamp down on more radical movements.

The failure of the RWDSU union in Alabama to do this is going to dampen that momentum and bolster the worker collectives instead. That's why it's likely the NRLB is going to toss out the election results and the Democrats are going to put more pressure on Bezos, in the form of threatening to bust up Amazon or raising corporate taxes, to get him to voluntarily accept the union or stop interference in the second election. I don't think it's going to make a difference, but that's what I predict is going to happen here.

So if you look at this from the perspective of this election being the be all and end all of labor organizing in the US, obviously this would be a significant defeat for workers. However, that would be organizing the forest for the trees. There has been a significant increase in strikes across the country over the last few years and workers in many parts of the country, including in Alabama, are ready to pitch a fight to advance their interests.

Democrats and Wall Street worry about this and they should. The Reichpublicans will probably shift to outright fascism and nazism to convince big business to let them shut this worker radicalization down, ala Hitler, but the Democrats will try to coerce this growing energy into electoral politics and bureaucratic unions instead. Neither side is looking out for the best interests of workers, which is why we should be applauding and standing up for them when they stand up for themselves. As one of the workers at the mine in Alabama said for himself:

[Quote] We have to unite with the teachers, the Amazon workers, the steelworkers to make us stronger. But the unions won’t do that. We need a different avenue.

The left that calls for a general strike taps into this energy, but it has to be done independently from the political system, which has an interest in making sure this doesn't happen. I think if we nudge blue collar workers in this general direction, the whole country benefits, including us here at the DL. Income inequality is massive in this country. It's going to take a movement of the people to issue a major course correction. Rather than feeling despair, there are reasons to feel hopeful. You just have to know where to look.

R44

[quote]... There were two dumpings on February 10th and the 17th, both had only No votes, for a total of about 100. Statistically, it's impossible for there to only be no votes in such a pile, unless there was either undue influence applied...

That same argument was made about the statistical improbability of voting patterns in some districts in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Georgia, back in November.

R49 There's a difference between receiving few votes and receiving no votes. Trump received votes in the mail in ballots, but Biden received more. The drop off boxes only had no votes. That's a humongous difference.

“When you have an organization that has explicit ties to the Democratic party, you are going to have decisions by bureaucrats that are designed to work in the best interests of Biden's political fortunes“

This is kind of a “no duh” insight. Republicans are explicitly passionately anti-union, aside from cops and firemen. That puts all other unions firmly in the D category, regardless of who is President.

In other news, while Amazon is paying its workers a whopping $15 an hour, Jeff Bezos is a few months away from having hoarded $200 billion in personal wealth and sharing it with no one and doing no good in the world with it. Just lording over people.

R51 The point is that unions are supposed to work in the best interests of the workers they represent, not in what's going to be politically tenable for Biden and the Democrats.

Years ago if you worked at the Chevy plant that was your job for life. So organizing and getting a better deal.for that job meant a lot. Add in solidarity with your co-workers (and neighbors) for life.

Now how many people working in an Amazon warehouse go in expecting to stay there for 30 years? Who knows, they may, but the mentality is it's a gig job. Unions are for people who stay put and worry about their pensions.

Except that what's good for Biden and the Democrats is good for the unions and workers — and vice-versa — R53.

[quote] Uneducated people often vote against their best interests.

This kind of shit is so condescending. Yes, they didn’t vote the way you think they should have, so they MUST be uneducated (aka stupid).

I concur with those who've said that these workers feel like they've hit the jackpot in Bessemer with a $15 an hour job when all of the surrounding employers pay, at best, $12 an hour. They didn't want to see their differential of $3 an hour to go to the union (and yes, I know it wasn't going to be that much, but guess what meme Amazon management put out there...).

Amazon deployed the same tactics that Republicanazis have used for decades, and it should sound all-too familiar: hey current employee: you've got yours, why are you putting that at risk for people you don't even know?

Fear of losing what you've got is a powerful motivator.

R35, you don't even know what you are talking about.

I'll use General Mills as an example. Half their plants are union. The other half give aren't, but they give union benefits & pay to those nonunion employees, in the hopes that those plants won't go union.

If it were up to companies/corporations and they'd do away with the minimum wage, we'd all be earning less than $5 an hour and have absolutely no benefits at all and no vacation

Corporations have recently tried to get laws passed to overturn the minimum wage. They think a minimum wage of $7.25 / hour is too much to pay people

Educate yourself

[quote] This kind of shit is so condescending. Yes, they didn’t vote the way you think they should have, so they MUST be uneducated (aka stupid).

But they are

The union would have helped them all get breaks, extra vacation time, a lot more safety equipment and much better benefits. Their raises would have been better too

They're willing to cut off their nose to spit their face for a quick $15/$16 an hour. They simply aren't smart enough to realize paying union dues for 2 years (which is how long it would take to improve standards) would pay off in the long run

These people think Amazon is a great job. But most of them will only last there a year or two. They can't literally run around doing all that hard work for years at a time. A lot of them will get injured on the job and have their lives affected by those injuries for the rest of their lives. Amazon won't be around to help them either.

I'm in healthcare and see such a large majority of people who are addicted to drugs (that they get from the doc or elsewhere) because of injuries they received on the job. They ruined their backs and everything else for a low paying job

Their whole life now revolves around dealing with their injury(s). Going to the doc, getting the scripts, getting tests, etc, etc

I actually know a lot of people this has happened to

But they are, r56, they are...

“The point is that unions are supposed to work in the best interests of the workers they represent, not in what's going to be politically tenable for Biden and the Democrats.”

Which is what many of them do, while dealing with the existential threat that is the Republican Party. So naturally they align with Democrats who vocally support unions.

Maybe if Republicans weren’t out destroy all unions - except for police and firemen - you would have a point. But they are out to destroy them - so your point is obtuse at best. Yet I have a feeling - call me crazy! - that you’re arguing in extreme bad faith.

You can inject whatever paranoia

[quote] why did the union vote go so much in Amazon's favor?

The usual union organizers were still social distancing

I'm R28, R42; I did not post that mess @R16. Not sure what you were getting at. Perhaps you meant to reference R38, I don't know; I don't do this jack-leg TrollDar 2.0 foolishness.

R61

[Quote] Which is what many of them do, while dealing with the existential threat that is the Republican Party. So naturally they align with Democrats who vocally support unions.

The problem is that the interests of workers often times collide with that of the Democratic party. Case in point, the issue of school re-openings. Biden and many of the major Democratic mayors and governors have been putting the UFT and the AFT under immense pressure to reopen the schools before teachers are ready to go back to in person instruction. Teachers would prefer to keep schooling remote for the foreseeable future due to the lack of vaccinations in children and the new variants of COVID spreading around. They have been agitating for more funding to make remote learning work by providing free laptops and internet for families that can't afford it. They have also been successful at getting many families to keep their children at home, with New York City having almost 2/3 of its students doing remote learning. However, this isn't enough to stop the pressure campaign.

A union that represents the interests of workers would be making it clear to the government that schools cannot reopen until children are vaccinated and the state is doing enough to tamp down on the spread of the variants, which the vaccines may not adequately protect against. Instead, Randi Weingarten has been busy putting immense pressure on teachers, on behalf of the Biden administration, to disregard the safety concerns both for themselves and the students they teach and go through with reopening anyway. Schools that are not adequately funded, with poor ventilation and a virus that has now killed over half a million Americans, the highest per capita death rate in the world, are not safe to reopen at this time for full in person instruction.

The reason there has been such a push is not because of minority parents, who keep their children home at higher rates. Instead, it's Covid denying. selfish white mothers who are sending their kids back to school at the highest rates, even though many of them do not need to do so. The numbers bare out what the problem is here. Democrats are pushing reopening because they care more about the concerns of white, suburban, anti mask, COVID denying White parents than they are of the flesh and blood of the labor movement.

When you have such conflicts of interest, it's understandable why there is such a hesitation around and an aversion to joining bureaucratic unions that are too closely aligned to the Democrats and their political fortunes. It's understandable why people fear the anti-union Reichpublican party, which is certainly not a party of workers, but in solidly blue states and cities, and with a Democratic president, the unions should be pushing harder to make remote learning work better, rather than endangering the lives of the workers they represent in insisting on reopening the schools, simply to help Biden's political fortunes.

I'm not suggesting that teachers drop out of the union in protest, but the union leaders should remember that they are representatives of teachers first and foremost. Their needs and the needs of their communities come before that of political considerations. That's why my arguments are not in bad faith. Workers need exclusive advocates for them. Unions need to change to reflect that or there will continue to be a decline of membership for the foreseeable future.

Sorry R63 -- that should have said R16 and R30, who, at R30 says "I am R16"

As you were

R52 "Jeff Bezos is a few months away from having hoarded $200 billion in personal wealth and sharing it with no one and doing no good in the world with it."

It's not like Bezos has $200 billion in gold bars stored in his basement. He together with his ex-wife own Amazon shares that the stock market has valued right or wrong at pretty incredible sums.

Those shares allow him to control Amazon and in founding and controlling Amazon he's brought employment to well over a million worldwide while satisfying a hundred million consumer demands. A complete lie to say he's "doing no good in the world with it."

[Quote] People didn't want to mess up a good thing.

America. SMH.

"My dad used to be a major union guy, was an officer, etc. He now says unions are horrible and drove all the work out of the USA"

So does he now sit in his Lazy Boy, watching Fox, and collecting a fat pension because of the union? I got mine...fuck you..

We've all had to vote "anonymously" for something before, definitely while growing up in school for something or other. Did you ever feel your vote was completely anonymous? Of course not - it's human nature to doubt it. And when if you "get caught" you think you'll end up working the fryer at McDonalds for half your current pay? It's hard to blame these hard-working people with families and bills to not put their necks on the line for the greater good. Too risky.

I just had a friends husband go on an anti-union rant all up in my face the other night. How they encourage laziness and incompetence. Blah blah. Meanwhile this guy is in the carpenters union, gets gigs making anywhere from $50 to $70 an hours. And has a solid pension coming to him. And full healthcare including dental: Unbelievable, the ingratitude and hostility. Like the free market is going to give him any of that shit.

Maybe they recall the time Homer gave up the dental plan for tartar sauce?

Who is the troll who keeps beating the drum about how unions drove jobs out of the USA?

No, it was manufacturers and capital who realized as early as WWII, that they would make more profits if manufacturing was done in low-wage countries. This wasn't the fault of unions.

Japanese steel was cheaper, South American coal was cheaper. Maquiladoras were set up in Mexican border towns, doing final assembly work on US made parts. Eventually the parts were made overseas too; then the entire product was made overseas.

Yes, how terrible that US labor was paid well. It seemed to serve society well. High but not astronomically paid management, solid wages and benefits for working people, progressive taxation that although higher than today's, didn't impoverish anybody except millionaires.

Slavery has never left American society. It just shape-shifts.

Brilliantly put r72.

[quote]The people in the South don't know what a good job is.

Actually they do. And most of the good jobs left years ago. Its why they clamor for jobs at Amazon & prisons.

My grandmother lives in Beaufort, SC. If it wasn't for the Marines bases (Parris Island, MCAS Beaufort) that area would be completely decimated economically.

I guess they like wearing Depends at work.

New York City teachers belong to United Federation of Teachers, President Michael Mulgrew has continuing disagreements with members on when teachers should go back to class during Covid.

I wouldn't doubt at all that Amazon managers got the rumor started among the employees that if they voted a union in Amazon would close the facility.

R77, Well, that's just silly. Bezos isn't about to abandon any multi-million dollar assets. Have you SEEN An Amazon warehouse?

Gigantic buildings on many (like, 39, for one example) acres.

[quote] Well, that's just silly. Bezos isn't about to abandon any multi-million dollar assets. Have you SEEN An Amazon warehouse?

I CLEARLY didn't say Amazon would close the facility. Do you know the difference between rumor and reality? All it would take to get the whole workforce of that facility scared to death for their jobs would be to start a rumor and sit back and watch it grow and grow as it moved from person to person.

Robots are already used in Amazon warehouses for certain tasks. I wonder if the anti union campaign spread the word that if the vote was pro union Amazon would just replace most of the workforce with more robots?

Idiots will continue to make Bezos rich. $15 now and $25....15 years later, in the mean time loose let your health and strength go to dogs and job security be at the beck and call of a 21 yo new hire asshole

No R74, the average person in a Southern state does not know what a good job is

They've never had good jobs in the south. Not like the jobs up North

A lot of companies move to the south just so they can have cheap labor and give shitty benefits. My sister worked for a company who is located in the middle of the country, but has offices in the South. They pay the people in the Southern state offices, less money than the people in the Northern/midwest offices and give them truly shitty benefits. They have a completely different health care plan that is essentially only a catastrophic plan. And it's expensive too

[quote] a company who is located

Probably Jeff was going to pull a Ronald Reagan and fire them all?

I think it failed because the Alabama minimum wage is too low. Amazon could offer a piddling $15 and hour (less than 30K a year after taxes, before people start screeching) and seem really generous. They need to try this is Washington State where there's a smaller gap between the state minimum and warehouse worker pay.

I once worked for a company that was a contractor for the US Patent and Trade Office. The company had two branches: a headquarters branch in Pennsylvania and another branch in the DC suburbs (closer to the Patent Office). I worked in the DC-area branch, which employed about 80 people. A new manager came in, and he had a short temper. At the same time, a lot of new rules were issued. A faction of employees attempted to bring in a union. The managers started talking to each employee, one on one, to convince them to vote against the union. When the election day arrived, the employees voted against the union by a narrow margin.

A week later, management called a staff meeting. Each employee was handed an envelope with a letter that specified their termination date. The branch was moving to a new location. Any employee who wanted to come along had to apply for a position at the new branch. So you could apply for your current job....but you might not receive the same pay for it.

Textile industry once big in south and southwest is making a come back. If this continues and can be built upon should bring plenty of jobs with good compensation.

This article from The Nation gives a good perspective on why the campaign failed.

[quote]"Look For the Union Label"; my grandmother was a life-time ILGWU member in Philly;

My grandmother was a member of ILGWU in north Jersey. As a teenager, she worked in a sweatshop.

Oh, r79, sorry. You only assumed that the employees would believe such a rumor. Because, of course, they don’t have your acuity.

I know this is an old thread and please don't think I'm a troll or Bezos' PR, but I will tell you right now that I already know of several people who have quit since the unionization. The union is taking a shitload out of the paychecks and they just said it wasn't worth it anymore and quite.

quit*