Eldergays, was "Frasier" a huge hit back in the day?

I loved the show, but more than that I wanted his apartment sooooo damn badly!

R1, it actually STILL looks great.

No- it was one of the most reviled shows on TV. That’s why it lasted so long. Boing!

Niles made that show, imo. I couldn't watch a remake without him in the cast.

No, OP. Back in the elder days, they gave Emmy awards to all the shitty shows. It wasn't til the millennials taught us better!

It won more Emmys than any other show prior to Game of Thrones. It is still the most Emmy winning comedy.

I started watching Frasier a few years ago when my mother was in hospital undergoing multiple surgeries. Frasier kept me going before I received a call from her surgeon telling me she was well and recovery.

It was a huge hit with me! Although I'll be the first to admit that the quality starts to slide after the fifth season; there are still good episodes and zingers late in the run, but it's the law of diminishing returns. (In fact, I only recently watched the last three seasons.) Pretty much every episode written by Joe Keenan is a gem; ditto those with Harriet Sansom Harris's Bebe Glazer. And I, too, still covet that condo.

It was an incredibly smartly written and funny show until the last couple of seasons when Niles and Daphne started living together after which those two characters and the show itself lost the plot. There are maybe 2-3 episodes in those final two seasons that are at the level of the show's heyday, the "gay" one with Patrick Stewart being one of the examples.

It sounds like no one but Frasier will be in the remake.

Grammer thinks his presence was the success of the show.....but he'll find as Mary Tyler Moore did that it's important to have the right people around you.

Eddie and Maris made the show

I don't think I've ever watched an entire episode. I think I began to watch a couple of them and switched them off. That's not to say I didn't think the timing was really good, and the actors were doing a great job.

Everybody was always talking about it. Maybe it's because it took place in the city I lived in and it was inverse snobbery (caveat: at the time there might have been cause to possess invert snobbery about Seattle) that prevented me from enjoying it.

P.S. I just remembered that when I visited England in April 1998 and I went to a local pub in Edith Weston (that's funny, because I think there's only one pub in Edith Weston anyway), once the locals found out I was friends with their neighbours, they deluged me w/questions about Frasier. Was Frasier popular in the UK, or did I just fall into a space warp thing?

Great sitcoms have great ensemble casts and that’s why Fraser was a hit.

Great acting and outstanding writing! And I wanted that condo also!

"I'm not gay, Guy!"

It wasn't as popular as Friends or Seinfeld, but it got high ratings, though it was regularly beat by Home Improvement when they aired against each other.

Grammar was never attractive. In fact, when the show was on the air, people made jokes about the endless parade of attractive women that Fraisier dated.

Yes, it was one of the biggest and most popular shows. I remember the 200th episode was especially a huge deal.

In the revival, Frasier will be forced to move in with Freddie (now a trans-woman) after being cancelled for spreading anti-vaxx and election misinformation, as well as being exposed for all of his inappropriate behavior in the workplace.

His goal will be to get a gig on OAN or Fox News. Hilarity will ensue.

Oh, Grammar got mad when the season finale of Frasier didn't do as well as the one for Friends, which aired around the same time. He claimed that NBC didn't promote it was much as Friends because he's a Republican.

You can always tell which eps the wonderful Joe Keenan wrote or was showrunner. If you liked Frazier or are ever down and need a pick me up of laughter, check out his 3 books.

r12, yes, Frasier was very popular in the UK.

Here’s some TV trivia. Lisa Kudrow, who had a small but recurring role on Mad About You, was originally cast as Roz but was fired and replaced by Peri Gilpin quickly.

Lisa was cast on Friends immediately after.

It was a hit, but I'm not sure I'd call it a huge one, largely because of the way NBC used it. It was a top 10 show when it aired on Thursday nights (#7 in season 1; #3 in season 6; #6 in season 7), but most of the time NBC used it to shore up its Tuesday night lineup, where it was seldom paired with or surrounded by any other hit shows. But it was a self-sustaining hit--it was a top 20 show until its final two seasons, even when everything around it was failing, and even when it was up against Home Improvement (which NBC used it to counter-program). That's still impressive, even if its overall record is more regular hit than huge one.

I used to watch it as a kid with my Mom I never understand the jokes but I liked watching it.

The 90’s was weird because they made such obvious gay characters on TV and then made them straight when they ran out of ideas like Niles for Frasier, Chandler from Friends, and Niles from The Nanny. Clearly gay characters.

The show was nominated for 107 Emmys and won 37. That’s got to be close to a record.

It may not have been the hit that Friends or Home Improvement was but it was infinitely better

I never watched it and never wanted to watch it.

It's funny to think how, if Frasier was on today, The Very Woke would be tying themselves in knots because they writers kept trying to make Frasier and Niles straight.

#GayErasure

R26 Was Home Improvement a big hit? Really?

i didn't really watch it much when it was on tv. It was a really popular show. I don't think it reached Friends popularity, but almost.

I never wanted to watch Home Improvement. I've seen some reruns on the Laff channel when i was waiting for another show to come on after. That show sucks so bad. I don't see how it was popular at all. Maybe it was to the people who watched Full House.

Frasier is still on every night from 8-9pm on Cozi TV. Somehow it doesn't seem "dated" like some shows that are 20-30 years old. But I'm sure if someone under 20 were watching, they would simply not understand why the characters weren't constantly taking selfies and posting on Instagram.

r29, yes, Home Improvement was a massive hit. It was a top 10 show every year it was on the air (and top 4 its first four seasons). It wasn't a timeslot hit either, dependent on the shows around it. It was a tentpole, bigger than anything around it and lifting up those shows.

And yes, it was dreadful.

R24 I don't recall any if those characters ever having sex or dating me so I'm not sure why anyone would think they were clearly gay. How stupid of you.

The actors playing the father, Niles, Gil Chesterton and BullDog Briscoe are/were all gay.

I thought it was generally funny, but it Niles with Daphne were one of the worst romantic pairings in tv sitcom history. They had NO chemistry whatsoever. But then I don't think David Hyde Pierce would have had sexual chemistry with any female actress.

Several of the writers reunited to produce " Hot in Cleveland."

When Daphne had no interest in lovelorn Niles, everything worked. When she returned his feelings, everything fell apart. Plus, it ruined her character, turning her into a hellish shrew.

Did everyone from Cheers make an eventual appearance on the show? Some worked better than others.

[quote] Frasier was very popular in the UK.

I've spoken with an Englishman who says that that pseudo-English female's accent was hopeless.

I avoid this show. Ugly actors and that bizarre fake set which is as architecturally-fake as the one Hitchcock used in 'Rope' in 1948.

OP - “ Was Kelsey Grammer considered hot?”

No, silly. He was considered gay. GAY.

Well, R38, considering Leeves is British you can tell your friend to kindly sod off.

Many in the UK also thought Charles Shaughnessy was an American using a bad English accent on The Nanny.

The Nanny is also on every night on Cozi TV.

Why didn't Daphne (Jane) use her real accent?

R43 - Leeves is from a London suburb playing a character from Manchester hence the odd accent. Anthony LaPaglia, who is Australian, played her brother. He wore. Man U. shirt but spoke in a cockney accent. Then there was the Daphne's old boyfriend whose accent was pretty terrible.

The Mary Tyler Moore Show, on the air for seven seasons (1970-1977), held the record for the show to win the most Emmys in history: Nominated for 62; won 29. MTM still has the best ration of wins vs. nominations. MTM won nearly half of everything for which the show was nominated.

Frasier (1993-2004) surpassed MTM in 2002 by winning 37 Emmys; however, Frasier was on for 11 seasons. Nominated for 108; won 37. After seven seasons, MTM had won 29 Emmys; Frasier had won 25.

Game of Thrones (eight seasons, 2011-2019) surpassed both MTM and Frasier in Emmy wins. Nominated 178; won 38. After seven seasons, MTM had won 29 Emmys; Game of Thrones won 47. However, GOT was not a sitcom but rather a fantasy drama and received nominations for categories not considered for sitcoms such as Main Title Title Design, Stunts, Costume, Make-Up, Interactive Media, Sound Mixing, Special Visual Effects.

All things considered, I would say MTM is still king of the Emmys.

I loved Roz on Frasier.

I love how Anthony LaPaglia, Robbie Coltrane and Richard E. Grant as Daphne’s brothers each used a different accent.

I loved Roz’s unfussy sexuality. Hard to imagine Lisa Kudrow in the role. She would have been a cutsier, girlier character.

I watched an episode of The Closer last week and Guy turned up playing an asshole ADA.

Gil Chesterton was gay? I'm shocked.

SHOCKED!!!!

[quote] "I'm not gay, Guy!"

James Patrick Stuart was hot as fuck in that role, R15...even if the French accent wasn't the greatest.

I have many favorites from the series (my mother and I never missed an episode...yes, I know...MARY!), but this was one that had me laughing out loud. Side Note: it's mirrored, as these things sometimes are.

Do you call his place a condo? Not sure. His dads recliner and Eddie were the best

It seemed like there were people who watched Friends and people who watched Frasier, without a lot of overlap.

The show was a steaming pile of racist, homophobic shit. No blacks, no trans, no gays, no non-binary, no Jazz Jennings. It’s time to WOKE UP sitcoms from yesteryear!!!!!

For me the show jumped the shark was when the ongoing references to Maris changed so that she no longer was super-skinny and shrewish, but morbidly obese and shrewish. That was just too stupid and unlikely to be believable, and it ruined a great running gag.

It was like when Joanie's unseen overamorous and amoral best friend Jenny Piccolo suddenly started actually appearing on "Happy Days," played by Cathy Silvers--again, they ruined a great running gag.

I liked most of the major '90s sitcoms: Friends, Frasier, Seinfeld, The Nanny, sometimes Roseanne but only if in the mood for trashiness (I have family roots in the mid-west so we'll blame it on that!)

“Eldergays”? What the fuck? Were you born in 2007, OP?

It was Frasier. It wasn’t that long ago. It’s not like you’re talking about Marcus Welby, M.D.

That was a great episode, R50, and James Patrick Stuart was indeed incredibly hot in it. Frasier always had a problem with accents. That same episode with JPS's terrible French accent also featured Cynthia Lamontagne who played Big Rhonda on That 70's Show doing an execrable English accent that made the French accent look brilliant by comparison.

To be fair, R56, Frasier premiered 28 years ago, and ended 17 years ago, so it is a pretty old show. Just typing that out makes me feel old. I was 23 when it premiered.

Anyone who isn’t old enough to know what kind of a hit Frasier was, does not deserve to ask the question.

Gen Z-ers: why were they born? What was the point?

[Quote]Maris changed so that she no longer was super-skinny and shrewish, but morbidly obese and shrewish.

Wait. She was never obese. Even after killing the Argentine polo player.

Not only that, Jenny Piccolo was also supposed to have died in the Who concert tragedy that, in the shows universe, happened years before the Who even formed, R54!

R46, my all time fave Frasier scene was Roz, struggling on crutches & trying to make a dramatic exit. “SAYONARA!”

[quote]writers kept trying to make Frasier and Niles straight.

R16- Blansky's Beauties was better than Friends

r60, oh yes she did get fat: she blames Niles's second wife, Mel, for bad plastic surgery on her [Maris's] neck for her obesity. 7th season.

It was a HUGE hit in the U.S. back in the day.

It was the show that put Seattle on the map.

It was like the anchor show on NBC’s Must See TV Thurs nights. Brings back fond memories of ‘93, junior college, i almost always had Fridays off. I would get a head start on my homework & had the tv on in the background from 8-11.

I still laugh at the geographically impossible view from his condo, amongst other Seattle inaccuracies.

The actor who played Gil was a friend's literary agent back in the day. He was a hoot.

What are some of your favorite episodes? A few of mine are the live murder mystery radio show, the ski lodge and the dinner party Niles hosted at his condo.

The Innkeepers. Frasier and Niles think it's a good idea to buy and operate a restaurant. Three Valentines for the opening -- incredible and beyond hilarious physical comedy from Niles as he's disastrously preparing for a date at Frasier's condo because he's to ashamed at his mid-divorce quarters at the Shangri-la. I can't recall the episode name, but when Niles suspects Maris is having an affair wit her fencing instructor. It ends with a duel and a mistranslation from Marta to Frasier to Niles. German > Spanish > English.

Jean Smart won an Emmy for her guest appearance on Frasier. So funny.

Actually Jean Smart won two Emmys for Frasier:

She went on to win two Primetime Emmy Awards for Outstanding Guest Actress in a Comedy Series.[15] Reflecting on the role, Smart said: "I had loved that role on Frasier so much, particularly that first episode. It’s nice to get nominated and win for something you were particularly proud of. At the time I was a little bit snobby about doing guest parts. Based on what I don’t know. It wasn’t something I was seeking. But my agent said, 'You have to read this.' I thought it was hilarious and the show was brilliant so I didn't even hesitate. I remember when we did the table read with the rest of the cast we could hardly get through it we were laughing so hard.

One of my favorites is the murder mystery at the beach house. The one where the dead seal on the beach threatens to ruin the party and they go to increasingly hilarious lengths to hide it. "Don't forget your lamp!" Hehe...

I love the Christmas episode where Frasier convinces Martin and Niles to pose as Jews for Amy Brenneman’s yenta mom. They have to hide the Christmas tree in the powder room. Martin enjoys arguing, Frasier adds sugar to the wine and Niles peppers the conversation with Yiddish as later wanders in to the room dressed as Jesus.

That episode is hilarious r74!

This

Also this

Also all of Back Talk is perfect

[quote] "The Innkeepers". Frasier and Niles think it's a good idea to buy and operate a restaurant."

Yes, R70! It's absolutely hilarious!

Frasier: Nonsense, Roz, you look divine!

Roz: No, I look like Divine!

Pre-Covid, I would regularly see Edward Hibbert who played Gil Chesterton at the Greenwich Avenue Equinox in the West Village. He lived a few blocks away. However he often used the locker room on Saturday mornings to store bags and bags of clothes and to change and shower. I never once saw him working out.

I wondered if his apartment actually had a bathroom and a closet. It was very strange.

A TV Guide article about Kelsey once described him as "easy to look at," which I find to be accurate.

Frasier was more old people TV and Friends was more young people TV. Personally I loved Frasier way more.

R44 and yet the episode with Daphne’s old boyfriend is probably among the best, along with the ‘Out with Dad’ episode. I must be one of the few who didn't like Bee Bee and Lana.

Frasier's "Merry Christmas, Mrs. Moscowitz" is one of my two all-time favorite Christmas episodes of a TV series. The other is Curb Your Enthusiasm. ("You [italic]ate[/italic] the baby Jesus and his mother Mary!")

I've seen it several times and it's no less funny on repeated viewings.

Frasier was attractive in the sense of being considered rich, sophisticated and locally famous. And yet, his dad and Daphne was living with him. I can't recall if that was ever an issue with any of the female love interests.

[quote] "I'm not gay, Guy!"

That’s pronounced “Guy,” r15.

Kelsey looked a lot better after he cut his hair. His weight fluctuated a bit during the show's run, but it's amazing how his lifetime of drug and alcohol abuse didn't really damage his looks.

John Mahoney was good as an irascible old man but wasn't credible as a blue-collar type and barely passed as straight, he was better in Moonstruck..

Dan Butler ("Bulldog") gives one of the most convincing performances of a straight pussyhound played by a gay actor (UNLIKE Neil Patrick Harris in How I Met Your Mother). I wonder why he left the show after season 6.

I didn't like Bebe and Lana either r84.

R85 is that the one where Larry David had a public hair stuck in his throat and coughed it up in front of Cheryl’s father during a fight with a nativity actor in his front yard?

R90 - yes!

Who doesn’t love Bebe?!

Fraiser is still a bid deal. Millennials love it too.

The first 6ish seasons were excellent. Even with many improbable characters/stories/circumstances, the show was so LOL funny and smart. And, no doubt thanks to lots of gay writers and actors, the show was a great example of mining homosexuality for humor without ever punching down. R63 already shared "The Matchmaker," one of my favorite episodes.

Someone connected to the show, maybe one of the writers, once remarked that Niles was basically Frasier if he had he never moved to Boston. I loved that thoughtfulness about the characters.

I loved it when it was originally broadcast, but cannot watch it now without getting triggered. There were no trans employees listed in any of the credits! And I've triple-checked on IMDB!

For those who hated Clive's accent in "The Two Mrs. Cranes," I always found this comment from Joe Keenan himself to be interesting. (Also, the actor who played him, Scott Atkinson, passed away earlier this year.)

"I have for over a decade now heard Scott Atkinson's accent as Clive in "The Two Mrs. Cranes" loudly decried, especially by English Frasier fans who can't comprehend our failure to have cast an actual Brit in the part. What those outside the business cannot realize is that multi-cam comedy scripts are sometimes finished and guest roles cast mere days, if not hours, before the table read and the start of rehearsals.

Since "Mrs. Cranes" was the first episode of season four, I finished it in ample time for the casting director to offer it to a few well known English actors (which ones I honestly can't recall at this remove) but name stars of that age are more interested in film work than guest spots on TV shows, so we were still looking the day before the table.

The part of Clive had three main requirements: the actor had to be funny, he had to be handsome enough for us to believe that Roz and Daphne would instantly go to war over him, and he had to be (or at least play) English. We saw roughly eight actors, perhaps half of whom were British. None of the Brits was either funny or sexy enough to make the story work. Scott, a handsome and charming American, came in and read the part under the apparent impression that the role was based on Hugh Grant. We explained the Clive was working class. He took a few minutes to prepare and came back in with a working class accent which, while a touch broad, seemed serviceable enough for American ears. Had we cast any of our choices save Scott we'd have torpedoed the whole episode."

I got a DVD of the entire series to watch over our lockdown.

Someone on this site suggested it. An episode or two before bed each day made for pleasant dreams.

I am currently watching Will and Grace as my bedtime tv. That Karen is a hoot.

An embarrassment of riches as far as Favorite Episode goes, but my vote is for "Ham Radio."

[quote] Gen Z-ers: why were they born? What was the point?

To remind you that you're going to die R56

Frasier is far superior to Friends. Some of the episodes mentioned are hysterical. DHP is a master at physical comedy. A Valentine for Niles has me in stitches every time.

Another funny one not mentioned is Voyage of The Damned when we get numerous physical descriptions of Maris. "3 minutes in the sunny and she'll sear like an ahi tuna" to Roz mistaking her through a keyhole as a walking coat rack.

[quote]I love the Christmas episode where Frasier convinces Martin and Niles to pose as Jews for Amy Brenneman’s yenta mom.

That's one of my favorite episodes.

[quote][bold]Frasier:[/bold] Niles, why don't you see if you can go help Dad in the kitchen?

[quote][bold]Niles:[/bold] Oh all right, but he'll probably just kvetch at me and frankly I don't need that tsuris.

Hot and Foamy was my favorite.

Gee, I don't know, OP. Maybe the number of seasons could be a clue?

I never watched it at the time, but I watch it over and over now. It's hilarious.

I think Clive's terrible accent just makes the whole thing funnier. I wouldn't change it.

I started watching it again on Hulu because of this thread. The only thing I don't like is having to sit through that "tossed salads and scrambled eggs" song after every episode. It gets old quickly.

I've been binging on it on Hulu for the past couple of weeks too and I can't remember the last time I laughed out loud at a TV show. Not for years. What a fabulous show this was. I do think it was a huge hit because it ran for 11 years. It doesn't seem dated in any way. I'm loving it.

[quote]"The Innkeepers". Frasier and Niles think it's a good idea to buy and operate a restaurant.

One of my favorite lines in this episode is when Frasier and Niles are discussing how they want the restaurant to be extremely exclusive - no signage on the outside, unlisted telephone number, etc. Then Martin says "Why don't you buy some guns and shoot the customers as the come through the door."

Still makes me laugh.

I always have loved the episode where Frasier decides he alone should write the theme song for his radio show (Season 7, Episode 13). All the station manager Kenny wants is a short ditty, .but pompous Frasier composes a magnum opus that features a full orchestra and a dozen singers. There's even a spoken-word section narrated by Niles. It's comedy gold. Leave it to Martin to take Frasier down a few pegs.

And another favorite is the episode where Frasier agrees to sing at a public TV fundraiser. He promises a stirring rendition of "Buttons and Bows" from the Bob Hope comedy "The Paleface," but then midway through forgets the lyrics and ad libs what amounts to gibberish. I laugh every time.

When Niles fills in for a feverish and delusional Frasier on his radio show.

One of my favorite scenes

When the radio station's talents turned Frasier's washroom into a sauna to help loose weight, and the lights were out, Bulldog licks Gil by mistake. Gil then says: "And if it happens again, I shall consider it strike one."

[quote] to help loose weight,

Oh, DEAR!

[quote] Was Kelsey Grammer considered hot?

I’d dress Kelsey up in lingerie and let him toss my salad if I got to live in Fraser’s apartment.

When it was on the air, there was a sorta "slobs vs. snobs" culture war around it and Home Improvement. While Home Improvement garnered higher ratings, Frasier won in critical acclaim and Emmy wins.

^ As an idiot Gay man who likes tools, fast cars and elegant surroundings I liked both shows

I just got to Season 7 episode 13, R109. SO funny!

[quote]I've spoken with an Englishman who says that that pseudo-English female's accent was hopeless.

Pseudo English? Jane Leeves is English, she was born in Ilford.

Rt2, I agree! I never watched "Friends" (yet I find Matthew Perry a comedic genius!). But "Frasier"? Absolutely! Brilliant dialogue that surely went over the heads of many!

R52^^^

R109, You made me laugh just remembering that gibberish!

[quote]I started watching it again on Hulu because of this thread.

Same here, I just started episode 2.

These are (I plan to add more!) my "forever" episodes on my TV DVR/Tivo:

S1E1: The Good Son

S1E9: Selling Out (Frasier makes commercials)

S1E12: Miracle on Third or Fourth Street (Frasier works on Christmas)

S1E18: And the Whimper Is ... (Frasier and Roz are up for awards)

S2E3: The Matchmaker (with the gorgeous Eric Lutes)

S7E15: Out With Dad (with the great Brian Bedford, thinking Martin is gay)

S7E16: Something About Dr. Mary (Frasier doing Black Jive Talk!)

S9E16: Wheels of Fortune (with the brilliant Michael Keaton as a wheelchair "positive thinking" speaker). NOT TO BE MISSED!

S11E3: The Doctor is Out (with the magnificent Patrick Stewart attracted to and dancing with "gay" Frasier!)

S11E19: Miss Right Now (Frasier picks up a good-time gal played by the ebullient Jennifer Tilley)

The Dr. Mary episode is funny.

"You opera loving, Armani wearing elitist" while doing the head bob and finger wave.

My Favorite Episodes:

[bold]My Coffee With Niles (1.24)[/bold] The Crane boys chat at Cafe Nervosa

[bold]The Matchmaker (2.3)[/bold] Frasier’s new boss thinks Frasier, Niles & Martin are gay

[bold]An Affair to Forget (2.21)[/bold] Maris has an affair with her fencing instructor

[bold]Martin Does it His Way (3.3)[/bold] Martin writes a Sinatra song

[bold]Mixed Doubles (4.6)[/bold] Daphne dates Niles’ doppelganger

[bold]Ham Radio (4.18)[/bold] Frasier’s radio murder mystery

[bold]Are You Being Served (4.21)[/bold] Frasier & Niles think their mother’s journal about lab rats named Frasier & Niles is about them

[bold]Voyage of the Damned (5.6)[/bold] The Cranes are on an Alaskan cruise with Roz, Maris & the Barracuda

[bold]The Maris Counselor (5.13)[/bold] Maris has an affair with their marriage counselor & Niles ends up in bed with him

[bold]The Ski Lodge (5.14)[/bold] The Cranes go to a ski lodge with Daphne & her girlfriend

[bold]Room Service (5.15)[/bold] Niles has drunk sex with Lilith

[bold]Merry Christmas Mrs. Moskowitz (6.10)[/bold] The Cranes pretend to be Jewish

[bold]The Dinner Party (6.17)[/bold] The Crane boys argue over who to invite to a dinner party

[bold]A Czar is Born (7.7)[/bold] The Cranes watch Antiques Roadshow

[bold]Back Talk (7.10)[/bold] Frasier hurts his back, under the influence of pain killers he confesses Niles’ love for Daphne

[bold]Out With Dad (7.15)[/bold] A woman Frasier meets at the opera plays matchmaker for Martin & her gay uncle, Edward

[bold]High Holidays (11.11)[/bold] Martin eats Niles’ weed brownie & gets high, Niles thinks he’s high on the plain brownie Martin replaced it with

[quote] Rt2, I agree! I never watched "Friends" (yet I find Matthew Perry a comedic genius!). But "Frasier"? Absolutely! Brilliant dialogue that surely went over the heads of many!

You like exclamation points, don’t you?

I'll also mention one featuring Daphne getting stuck at Niles and Maris's house on a stormy night while Maris is away. Frasier reaction is funny as hell when he finds out.

R5, tons of forgettable shows have won Emmys. You just want to rant against "millennials" (BTW mist millennials would remember Frasier)

This thread got me to start watching - I find schlubby Frasier kind of hot. The other posters who said this has aged really well are totally right.

The father's chair was a character by itself.

“Eclectic”

How does DL feel about the episodes featuring characters from Cheers?

I like when Lillith appears.

Frasier is okay but I kinda agree with one review I read way back that Frasier was basically a glorified Three's Company - both used misunderstanding as a plot device in most of their episodes.

I’m just at the beginning of the series, but John Mahoney’s character seems like an asshole of a dad. Frasier is persnickety but I mean, it’s his apartment!

Giving a shout-out to one of my favorites, the very underrated (as demonstrated by the fact that it hasn't been mentioned at all) "The Gift Horse." Frasier and Niles' escalating battle over who can get the better birthday gift for Martin is hilarious (that giant TV!), and the final scene is lovely (while still delivering laughs), giving Martin a nice moment of humanity that has nothing to do with fatherhood or his sons, but who he is as a person. I love it.

Remember, on Cheers, Frasier claimed his dad was dead (the dad was "resurrected" for the spin-off). They have a very strained relationship at the beginning.

Frasier and Niles had the best chemistry as brothers since Wally and the Beaver. Even in the very first episode, when they are discussing what they will do with their invalid father, they have hysterical rapport.

Except for Lilith, the episodes with the Cheers characters are pretty weak. It makes sense for Lilith to show up (she and Frasier have a child), but not for any of the other Cheers denizens, try as the writers might. (And the Thanksgiving at Lilith’s and the whole prep school imbroglio episode is another favorite.)

[quote]Did everyone from Cheers make an eventual appearance on the show? Some worked better than others.

Rebecca is the only one who didn't make an appearance, R37.

[quote]How does DL feel about the episodes featuring characters from Cheers?

Meh. I only like the Lilith episodes, the episodes of Wings that featured Cheers characters were much better.

The Diane one was pretty good, and the best of the non-Lilith ones.

The Lillith and Diane episodes were good, and the Woody show was a great example of how you can't go home again. Strangely, the weakest episode was the one with Sam.

Kelsey Grammer is a republican. That makes him a hard core asshole.

R143, man does everything have to be political with you? What a sad life you must have.

Is Hulu down for anyone else?

[quote] It seemed like there were people who watched Friends and people who watched Frasier, without a lot of overlap

I overlapped; of course, i watched a LOT more television then than i do mow. The difference is, ive long thought about doing a rewatch of ‘Frasier,’ while i will never, ever rewatch’Friends.’

This thread got me to watch a few episodes tonight, and they one with the restaurant’ is a classic: “how should I kill these eels?” ‘You can throw a toaster in the tank for all i care!”

[quote] Gen Z-ers: why were they born? What was the point?

Ah yes, the younger generation really are going to hell, aren’t they? Puts me in mind of this quote:

“Our sires’ age was worse than our grandsires’. We, their sons, are more worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more corrupt.”

Book III of Odes, Horace circa 20 BC

The two Kim Coles "Dr. Mary" episodes as are fucking hysterical.

[quote] I’m just at the beginning of the series, but John Mahoney’s character seems like an asshole of a dad.

Give it time. He’s not as gruff as the first season when the show was just getting its footing. You’ll grow to love his character.

The Dad is hilarious because he's always taking them down a peg when they get too pompous. I love his expressions too as Frasier and Niles talk.

One episode they were discussing crepe pan seasoning season and Martin's facial expressions were so funny.

So, just this first season version of Martin, what bugs me is he’s passive aggressive and insulting to them, but then gets offended or just refuses to engage with them if they judge him back. And I mean, these are supposed to be his kids, not neighbors of his. I’m way overthinking this lol.

^ Martin is incredibly passive aggressive and sometimes bitter. Reminds me of some of my older relatives, especially the way he sets each son against each other in competing for his attention (mind you, they compete in everything).

R128 exactly, I am a millennial and grew up with Frasier. I never watched it though, because I wasn’t allowed to watch commercial TV and discovered it in my 30s.

[quote] I love his expressions too as Frasier and Niles talk. One episode they were discussing crepe pan seasoning season and Martin's facial expressions were so funny.

How about the art theft episode? “Ask for the Fine Arts Theft Bureau.” LMAO.

The show did have some difficulties to maintain the conflict between the sophisticated and high almighty sons and their common, low-brow father. It just came and went whenever the plot asked for it. Like when dad told his sons off for making fun of his go-to restaurant. But for the most part it was just passive-aggressive barbs exchanged between them.

Martin was bitter. He lost the love of his life, he was shot and lost his career, and he felt abandoned by his sons who avoided him as much as possible. They were snobs embarrassed by their father's blue collar roots. It wasn't just Martin's abraisiveness that keeps them away. Frasier had even told the Boston crowd Martin was dead, which Sam revealed to him on his Seattle trip. The gruffness and passive aggression are understandable in that context. Part of the shows brilliance is that they all grew together during the course of the show and developed genuinely close relationships.

Niles: Allison Wolpert can say what she wants, why should we care a whit about what anybody else thinks. Am I right?

Frasier: Absolutely. [to Martin] Dad, do you think we're odd?

Martin: No, you're not odd. You're just..."special." Your mother told me that when you were kids and I still believe it.

"Veneer!!"

[quote]I’m just at the beginning of the series, but John Mahoney’s character seems like an asshole of a dad. Frasier is persnickety but I mean, it’s his apartment!

I guess we were supposed to believe Frasier and Niles wealthy sophisticated mother was happy marrying a cop, Martin?

I don't recall there being much of backstory about the mother. IIRC, she was wealthy yet settled for Martin.

I don't think it was stated that she was wealthy. We do know that she was a psychiatrist like both of her sons. She and Martin got together during a murder investigation. She was called upon by the police department to provide a profile of the murderer and met Martin over the outline of the victim.

She was well-educated and may have had sophisticated tastes and interests. But that doesn't necessarily means she was wealthy.

I’m picturing them like Christine Baranski and Gary Cole in The Good Wife. But Martin doesn’t really have Gary Cole’s charm. He was probably less grouchy as a younger man, though.

I seem to recall that they featured the mom on the show in a very special episode where the family is staying at a log cabin they used as a vacation spot when the mom was still alive. There was even a scene where they are watching a film reel.

R160 That was Rita Wilson as the Mum, she also played the girlfriend who everyone could see looked like the mum except Frasier.

She was also in that episode where, Lilith, Diane and the other wife turned up to psychoanalyze Frasier in a cabin. All in Frasier's head of course.

One episode that really should have been brilliant (but wasn't) is when the amazing Laurie Metcalf turns up as Frasier's first wife and famous children's entertainer, 'Nanny G'. They ended up having sex on the bed right before the kids show on the stage. Frasier ended up crawling on the bed in a nappy in front of the audience...........

It says something when a comedy translates so easily to the UK, despite botched accents.

What do those who saw it think about the episode of Daff's wedding to Donny? What do you think about the way they handled it? I don't want to say too much and give anything away to those who didn't see it yet. I think it is the last episode of season 7.

[quote] don't want to say too much and give anything away to those who didn't see it yet.

Thank you!

R161 could learn a thing or two from you.

R126, True! 'Tis a harmless vice---and my only one! 😉

R134, Farce is as farce does.

What's new? "Seinfeld" was just "Taxi" in an apartment building instead of a garage. Wacky guy; short, fat guy; straight-man; and....an Elaine.

Some of the minor characters were funny as hell. Gil, Bulldog and even Noel. The ep where he gets back at Frasier by giving him a Klingon reading for Freddie's bar mitzvah and Bebe trying to quit smoking are hilarious.

Martin: "Hey, for your information, people of our generation think sex is a private thing. And I still think that's a pretty healthy way of looking at it. Sex is something between you and the person you're doing it to!"

The amount of commercials on Hulu is killing me.

I think it's still on YouTube. I rewatched so many episodes there.

[quote] The amount of commercials on Hulu is killing me

That’s on you. I have the commercial-free plan. Do the same.

Was Maris ever shown? I don't recall.

[quote]The amount of commercials on Hulu is killing me.

Do you have cable? Frasier is shown on many cable channels.

Frasier was great. It played on stereotypes of class and masculinity and was well-written.

[Quote]Was Maris ever shown? I don't recall.

No! Never! At least the producers got *that* right.

You can also find all seasons of Frasier on Paramount+. No commercials.

I wasn't a huge Cheers fan r132 so don't care much for the characters. I do love Lilith though!

It seemed to be let go by the wayside in later seasons, but Daphne initially had some psychic powers. This was easy fruit for Frasier and Martin to ridicule, as she was often wrong.

But the times she would be under tremendous pain or pressure from her “gift” because Lilith was in town made for a great continuing gag.

The "Dr. Nora" episode with Christine Baranski is one of my favorites.

I think the show did a semi jump the shark once they got Daphne and Miles together. It wasn't as bad as others that jumped but it was never as good.

Kelsey was hot in a sort of drunken, blowing your dad's coworker at last call kind of way. For about a minute.

In a previous thread, I spelled out my extended fan fiction that would write off weakest link Jane Leeves (Daphne dies after catching Covid) and have Niles realise his love for her doctor (a 50-something Asian or Latino) at the last episode of the first season of the reboot. Niles falls deeply in love with the person, which would allow him to have a homosexual romance without denigrating the character’s nobility by making light of his love for Maris and Daphne. Everyone is supportive. David, Freddie, Roz, Alice and Ronee take it in stride but Frasier is in shock.

r180, to be fair, I think that had as much, if not more, to do with Lloyd and Keenan--who really were the voice of the show--leaving right after they had them run off together at Daphne's wedding. Niles and Daphne already would have been a major shift in the show, because it required putting them together in stories more, which meant less Frasier and Niles together. But combining that with the show losing its voice was a real hit. Maybe not a fatal one, but yeah, the show never entirely recovered (even if it got some of that voice back in Season 11 when Lloyd and Keenan returned for the final year).

It didn't help that the Niles and Daphne couldn't really develop the way it needed to. The new writers had to deal with the aftermath of the situation Lloyd and Keenan left them with (Donny and Mel), and Jane Leeves was pregnant and had to be written out halfway through the year. So we never really got to see Niles and Daphne spending time together as a couple and seeing what that dynamic would be like and any comedic possibilities in that. Instead we got like, one date (on the roof, where Niles got locked out and Leeves was already obviously pregnant), then she got fat and they sent her off, then she came back (in a fairly well-done episode, for what it was)...that was it. They were basically together, and they had to throw in stupid distractions like her terrible mother and family to give them something to do. (One thing I appreciated about the year when Lloyd and Keenan returned: Daphne's mother only appeared once--at the baby shower, in what was really only an obligatory appearance--even though she was supposedly still living in Seattle near them. Clearly they recognized how unbearable she was as a regular presence. If only the previous showrunner had.)

"Frasier" is on Cozi.

Oh, Daphne’s mother. Ugh. Charmless nightmares work best when they’re used rarely.

OTOH, Brian Cox can make a cameo.

There was a DL thread last year that complained that gays dislike the show because Frasier and Niles are written as fussy, prissy, gay stereotypes but the characters themselves are acted as straight butch bros, which… was missing the point entirely.

Of course not, OP. There was NO good tv until Tits and Dragons came along.

Frasier's run had finished before I reached adulthood, so I watched it fully aware of its reputation. I had very high expectations and it didn't disappoint! I thought every main character was pretty much brilliant and the Frasier-Niles dynamic was comedy perfection. Of all the semi-regulars, I don't think anyone can touch Bebe (although Lilith is great).

The Cheers episodes didn't always spark as much laughter as I've still not seen that. Is it as good as Frasier? I'm wary because the Cheers characters that popped up didn't seem very funny to me.

Cheers is more of a heartwarming show than a laugh riot. Low key show. I haven’t watched it in years but it would probably be nice to put on if you were on the couch after a night out.

r188, Cheers is great, but it's a different type of show, with different rhythms and a different style of comedy, so it's hard to make a direct comparison. It's still worth it if you're interested in seeing more of Frasier and Lilith and all the backstory of their relationship.

When I finished my Frasier rewatch last year, the show I watched was Wings, which was from the same creators, had a lot of the same writers, and is a bit more of the same style (though it's not nearly as good). But it has a very likeable cast, even if the writing was never great. Frasier and Lilith showed up there too (in the episode that got Kelsey Grammer his first Emmy nom):

One of the best Wings episodes, and the closest they ever did to a Frasier-style farce (without hitting that level, which tells you all you need to know) was Nuptials Off in Season 6:

I remember when Frasier was visiting his first wife on her studio set while she was filming as "Nanny". When he asked her how she was doing, she looked at him and said "Do you know what it's like to play the same character for twenty years?" The audience loved it.

I never liked it. Kelsey and his Rethug politics can fuck off.

Thanks for your thoughts, DLers. I'll probably give Wings a go next.

No! Kelsey Grammer was never hot! I always thought he looked ridiculous with that hair hanging off the back of his head and his constant self-deprecating humor made him seem weak, needy, insecure and phony. It was a turn off.

And as others stated, Kelsey is an arrogant racist GOP piece of shit so I never watched Frasier during it's original run.

It didn't help that Frasier was a spinoff of Cheers which was one of the worst shows on TV. So I had no interest in ever watching Frasier.

However one night I couldn't sleep and there was nothing else on TV so I decided to let Frasier play in the background as I tried to go back to sleep. Surprisingly, it was funny! Since then I've enjoyed this show in syndication.

I don't regret not watching during its original run though because frankly, there were better shows on TV at the time.

Kelsey got lucky with the show because the writing and directing are spectacular. This is a cleverly written show.

Most of the regular cast (outside of Kelsey) is pretty good.

They also brought in a lot of FANTASTIC broadway veterans as special guest stars who really knew how to work that script! To me the guest stars (who came in for an episode or for limited runs) really made the show.

A lot of hot men paraded through too, especially Roz Doyle's boyfriends.

How do you know Kelsey is racist? I doubt he's homophobic.

R196 I never said Grammer was homophobic. I said he was racist.

Most of those "all White shows" in the 1980s and 1990s were pretty racist.

He was the title character. Surely he had some sway to make "Seattle" more diverse - since it actually IS quite diverse.

The country was pretty much "awake" during that period. There was no excuse for such a lazy approach which was totally lacking in self-awareness.

Also he is a huge Trump supporter. They're all racist!

SNL discusses in more detail below.

[quote] Kelsey got lucky with the show because the writing and directing are spectacular. This is a cleverly written show.

No doubt about this. When I first heard they were making it I remember thinking “they’re basing a series around THAT guy?! It’ll flop.”

How do you know he was racist R197?

R199 How do you know he's not?

R199 and r200, I say this with the best intent. Do better.

R195, way to keep an open mind and come around to enjoying the show. It's also impressive you stand by your earlier principles and keep things in context.

But I'm curious what shows you were watching that were better than Frasier, based on better source material, AND had a more socially-conscious, tolerant lead or supporting cast?

Well, Grammnet, his production company, produced [italic]Girlfriends[/italic] and [italic]the Game[/italic]. If Grammer had done anything racist, I think one of the stars would have spoken up.

R197 Seattle is what, around 70% white and 20% Asian? Back in the '90s probably more like 80% white. Just because a city is "diverse" doesn't mean it isn't segregated, by race but also by class/education/profession. This is true for ALL cities in the US.

R204

Seattle is about 65% White that means it is 35% something else. It would not have been that different in 2004 when the series ended.

Why was no diversity seen on the show?

And don't give me bullshit that their professions never encountered anything but White people. Even in the most remote Cities in the US, you are going to see other races in 11 years!

Unless you never leave your house, you are going to encounter other races. Anyone attempting to erase every other race from a place where clearly, they ARE is engaging in a White fantasy world (read racism).

With the exception of Brian Stokes Mitchell and Kim Coles making limited guest appearances there wasn't much else by way of diversity.

Frasier worked at a radio station. Are you telling me that he never encountered other races working there? As far as we know, none even called in to his TALK radio program.

Get real!

R202 As with everyone, I watch shows that appeal to me. Between 1993 and 2004, Frasier just did not appeal to me. It is as simple as that. TV is designed to entertain you. I was entertained during that period by other shows.

^^^. I am also R195

Grammer is one of those Republicans where I'm capable of drawing the line between his political convictions and his work. To the best of my knowledge, he hasn't said anything I would consider racist or homophobic or misogynistic (anti-abortion views, for example). The show itself had a very varied cast, it had Black characters (didn't Martin briefly date Cam Winston's mother?) and there was never any peep that any minority or gay actors felt uncomfortable on the set. Do I dislike the fact that he's one of the more prominent Hollywood Republicans? Well, yes. But there's a big difference between someone like him and the likes of James Woods.

Some people need to grow up and quit demanding diversity in everything especially in a sitcom ffs. Oh, nos, no trans, queer, non-binary POC in a 90s show.

The Dr Mary episode dealt with white guilt. Hilariously, I might add.

Someone is just shitstirring.

R209 The show is over!

Stop using the thread as a a reason to sow racial hatred and division.

Why is it that stating opinions about a past show that do not coincide with your own make you so uncomfortable?

Discussing a show is not a demand for anything.

Get over yourself!

[quote] And as others stated, Kelsey is an arrogant racist GOP piece of shit

You’re fantasising about the racism. He’s never been racist nor homophobic. He’s just a nutcase and a freak and a Republican.

Had most of his family not been murdered nor died in freak accidents he may have been a very different sort of adult.

[Quote]He’s just a nutcase and a freak and a Republican.

R211 And you are in denial and making excuses.

The fact that there were never a random collection of characters to fill in some diversity quotas is what I liked about this show. I could totally see why the show characters wouldn't have more diverse set of friends. It rang true.

You can call them racist if you want and may watch or not watch it.

As someone else posted above, the show did confront the issue directly in a couple of episodes.

R210 I'm not the one making a big deal about it.

You need to get over yourself and realize it's a show.

Shit-stirrer begone.

I live in a huge diverse city, I'm white and don't have POC I hang out with. I'm not racist but my work and activities don't put me in contact with any. Then again I don't hang out with a lot of people anyway being a loner.

[quote]I remember when Frasier was visiting his first wife on her studio set while she was filming as "Nanny". When he asked her how she was doing, she looked at him and said "Do you know what it's like to play the same character for twenty years?" The audience loved it.

R192, Nannette Guzman (Nanny G) was introduced during an episode of Cheers where she was played by Emma Thompson, Frasier’s version of Nannette was played by Laurie Metcalf. I say all of this to say, while the line was funny on it’s own, Laurie Metcalf’s meltdown in Frasier’s kitchen made it even funnier.

[quote] while the line was funny on it’s own,

Oh, dear.

There was a South Asian barista at Cafe Nervosa (see "My Coffee With Niles"). She even had lines! Alas, per the script, she did not have a name, just "Waitress."

R214 Why are you making a big deal out of it AT ALL?

You wanna flex that you are a racist piece of crap that hates diversity?

You made that point.

Why go on and on about it?

R216 That sounds like a personal problem and has nothing to do with a widely disseminated television program where standards are expected to be higher.

No one said I'm racist and hate diversity. That's in your imagination. Why are you going and on with it?

R222, You've screamed you're racist multiple times. Are you so numb and dumb to your racism that you don't acknowledge it -- even to yourself, it anymore?

No, that sounds like your making it a problem R221.

No I haven't, dipshit @R22 but you're the troll who accuses everyone falsely. Bye, bitch.

R225 Are you now a hit dog hollerin? Does it strike a nerve being called out for being racist trash?

Stop flaming at people. Nobody wants to hear about your racism. Take that back to twitter with your MAGA friends!

How old was Mel?

When Niles visits her office for the first time he picks up a photo on her desk and assumes the grown man standing next to her is her husband.

[quote][bold]Niles:[/bold] Can you tell me, is that her husband?

[quote][bold]Clerk:[/bold] No, she's divorced. That's her son.

[quote][bold]Niles:[/bold] Really? Dr. Karnofsky's so young, she must have had him when she was a child.

[quote][bold]Clerk:[/bold] Okay.

One of the funniest was when Frasier uses a dating service. His dates were all absolutely cringeworthy.

Frasier to waiter: Bring me a bottle of your house red and whatever she's having.

Having watched the entirety of Frasier from beginning to end during lockdown, it's obvious that the diversity was lacking in the early years, but it did improve significantly. There were regular one-off appearances from POC, such as the old man in the nursing home and that basketball player Niles coaches. Cam Winston and his Mother were great regular additions and I loved Dr. Mary, but I don't see how her multiple appearances could expand much beyond what we saw.

Frasier was a multi-Humanitas Award winner, too, which celebrates diversity, dignity and freedom in TV and films. It featured multiple disabilities, gay characters and featured a few gay actors playing straight characters (some more convincingly than others!) and, of course, it had a high number of gay writers. Latin representation was improved over time, too, with the radio takeover and Latin music shows etc.

All-in-all, it wasn't too bad by contemporary standards, but with the revival I expect - and hope - it'll have improved a lot since nearly two decades have passed.

The cab driver who Frasier and Niles helped give birth in season 2 (and who they later saw in the hospital) was Black. Martin's old partner Artie who he visited in the hospital in Season 2 was also Black. It was obviously a very white show, but there were definitely POC there throughout. (The creators have said that the home healthcare worker was originally envisioned as a Latina; it was the network that suggested Jane Leeves since they had a deal with her. Obviously the Crane men had to be white since they started with Grammer, but it might have been interesting if Roz had been Black or Hispanic--though I doubt they would have made her sleep around as much if she had been.)

I kinda appreciated Roz having so many men. She was never ashamed of her love life or her sex adventures, no matter what people said. It was pretty feminist for the 1990s.

[Quote]it's obvious that the diversity was lacking in the early years

R229 Thank you for at least acknowledging that. The dipshits on here are trying to gaslight when we all know the history.

I've watched the entire series. I remember when it Frasier was referred to as "the show that made Friends look Black." Anyone who is familiar with "Friends" knows they had a similar problem with diversity - in NYC no less!

My point is why is it that it took complaints for Frasier to start even allowing Black people to regularly appear on the show? And why were there never any POC as part of the main cast? There is no excuse for that.

R222 ALL your comments scream that you hate diversity.

And since when did wanting a better society become such a mortal sin?

If putting a Black, Hispanic or Asian character as a member of the main cast of a show set in a city where CLEARLY THOSE PEOPLE ARE, would "destroy the show" then it was a pretty shitty show to start with - and the audience championing it is equally shitty!

As fucked up as our society is, ANYONE with a voice to make things better should be doing so. Things that may seem small and insignificant to a majority culture, can be huge to marginalized communities.

You sick, selfish, twisted mother fuckers! You would think fucking queens of all people would understand the importance of representation, diversity and equality better than most people. Apparently you don't! You want everyone to kiss your ass but you don't give a fuck about anybody else?

Do better.

R232, fuck off.

R232 pretends she’s gay but she’s a biter, old jealous Karen frau. And lord is she mentally ill. They do seem to find us for some reason.

[quote]There were regular one-off appearances from POC, such as the old man in the nursing home

Do you really not know who James Earl Jones is?

Everyone IGNORE THE TROLL

Which one R236? I blocked someone yesterday who kept claiming I admitted I was racist and hated diversity. That one?

Yep, that one.

[quote] I kinda appreciated Roz having so many men. She was never ashamed of her love life or her sex adventures, no matter what people said. It was pretty feminist for the 1990s.

Agreed. No one can even legitimately accuse the show of slut shaming. When Frasier teased her for it, it was because he saw her neurosis free, confident love life and recognised her as the sexual superior to his hapless self. He would have spoken to her the same way if she were a man. And she gave back as good as she got.

The difference is, you can make a white character do anything, and people aren't going to make it a representation of the entire race. If a Black or Latina Roz slept around a lot, you know someone would get upset. ("What? You're saying Black/Latina women are promiscuous!?! As exemplified by the ONLY WoC in the cast being the one who sleeps around? Offensive!")

R233 R234 R236 why don't YOU FUCK OFF!

You are the bitter old FRAU happy with stereotypes but you sure as fuck better not say anything about White Trans men sashaying around in their dresses. And you damn sure better refer to them as Ma'am!

On behalf of all Latino, Black, Asian (and all other human beings who know the difference between right and wrong) - Fuck you! You racist white piece of shit!

IF your fucking panties get in a knot over hearing an opposing opinion then your ass is the one to be canceled.

If you aint part of the solution then YOU ARE THE FUCKING PROBLEM!

You fucking old bitter queens wanna make DL an echo chamber for your old racist ideas.

"Oh let's remember the good old days when we had all white (culturally inaccurate and human erasure) shows? Hardy Fuckin Har Har Har! It was as ignorant and racist then as it is now!

FUCK ALL THE WAY OFF!

DL image preview isn't great but this is the full cast in their younger days.

Remember when Niles grew a mustache?

I seem to remember Jane Leeves on some exercise show in the 80s during the aerobics craze. DHP and Mahoney were dolls.

[Quote]The difference is, you can make a white character do anything, and people aren't going to make it a representation of the entire race.

R239 That is one of the stupidest things I have ever read here on DL!

You are either extremely naive or you are intentionally twisting the facts and creating a deceptive narrative to fit your deeply flawed position. White folks love making excuses to justify racism. This thread is full of shit like this.

POC can do ANYTHING on a TV show or movie. Just don't make them the stereotype!

POC don't wanna be brought in ONLY to play your criminal. They wanna play fully developed characters (as do White actors). Don't ALWAYS bring POC in JUST to be the prostitutes and drug dealers.

Don't pretend there is not a history here of that happening in Hollywood.

I encourage you to watch an old movie called "Hollywood Shuffle." It is hilarious, but addresses racist casting in Hollywood.

In "How To Get Away with Murder," Viola Davis (a Black woman) played a manipulative and demented murderer for SIX SEASONS! She is Black acting royalty. Black people loved that show. It was produced by a Black woman (Shonda Rhimes).

Denzel Washington got an Oscar Award for Training Day where he played a drug dealing, abusive criminal cop. Denzel is also Black acting royalty. Black people loved his portrayal.

Halle Berry got an Oscar Award playing a slut in Monster's Ball (she fucked her husband's executioner)! BTW P. Diddy (a Black man) played a criminal on death row in that picture). I didn't see any protests about either of those portrayals.

Kerry Washington surely was a slut on Scandal (a show written by a Black woman, Shonda Rhimes). Black people didn't cancel her. In fact, a lot of Black people loved the show.

Asians are even now getting better representation on TV. I am seeing Asian women now playing attorneys and lawyers on TV, something that was not really a thing 20 years ago. They used to ALWAYS get the shitty end of the stick - if cast at all!

I remember an episode of the Golden Girls where they poked fun at Asian stereotypes. Stan approached an Asian orderly asking to speak to a doctor. The orderly pretended not to speak English. Stan then gave him money to get a doctor. The orderly took the money and said: "Right away Sir" in perfect English with no accent. It was hilarious because it displayed the inherent bias of some White people when they see someone who is different. The GGs Got it! Even then! Why can't you?

People don't ALWAYS want to play the stereotype!

And it's not like you still can't turn on the TV or go to the movies and see Black and Latino people playing criminals, whores and maids, or Asians playing a spineless asexual nerd or a clueless/out of touch money grubbing asshole. With so few roles available to POC is it really asking too much to say you don't ALWAYS want to play those roles?

Some days I am shaking my head at the level of crazy here on DL. This is one of those days.

As I said before: Do better.

*Asians playing attorneys and judges.

You are arguing with a person who says this:

[Quote] It didn't help that Frasier was a spinoff of Cheers which was one of the worst shows on TV.

So, really no need to engage with him.

I have a feeling it's the LSA "ancient white f@ggots!!!" troll.

Is this considered a mullet?

R246, Cheers WAS an awful show! LOL

In the late 90s, I was watching an episode of Cheers on TVLand, and my much younger brother said,"Hey, that's the guy from Frasier!" Grammar played the same character for nearly 20 years. Frasier had a meta episode about this. Frasier was dating a children's TV show actress, played by Laurie Metcalfe. She was having a breakdown over the fact that her career was in a rut because she had played the same character for 16 years. Frasier said something like, "I can only imagine...that must be terrible." The studio audience loved it.

Wow! Fascinating, r250! Simply fascinating.

That hasn’t been discussed AT ALL in this thread. Nope. Not one time.

Good one, old chap.

Why doesn't the diversity troll make appearances on the Dallas, Dynasty, Falcon Crest, Knott's Landing and daytime soap threads?

R248 If Kelsey had hair up top that style would be a Romantic 1980s Professor cut.

And doesn’t he look like a femme kid in r241.

R248 Kelsey has never been attractive to me. His hair didn't help.

That said, lots of men struggle with hair loss. Some go a little crazy and end up with combovers and bozo the clown "parts" down the middle just to pretend they have hair.

I don't fault him for this unfortunate hairdo especially during that time. Many men did that. It's called desperation.

It looked goofy at the time, but it looks a lot goofier now in hindsight. LOL

[quote] Cheers WAS an awful show! LOL

Oh, OK. You've convinced me.

R22, to clarify: Lisa Kudrow was originally cast in the role, but during rehearsals, the producers decided they needed someone who could appear more assertive in her job and take control over Frasier at KACL, and Kudrow did not fit that role. The creators quickly hired Peri Gilpin, their second choice.

In other words, Kudrow came off as too whiny. Can't imagine her in the role...

I can totally understand that Lisa Kudrow would never have worked as Roz, and I say that as a fan of hers (The Comeback is just brilliant!).

I think it's a crime that Peri Gilpin was never a Golden Globe recipient for her contributions to Frasier. She was as good as the rest of them; I'd argue that she was better than Jane Leeves in a fair few episodes.

Scott Atkinson, who played Clive as mentioned above -- yes, he died earlier this year. But there's no cause of death. It was posted on Instagram (or twitter) by the woman who played Elvira (who just came out).

Does anyone know any details?

I was watching some TV ad one night and realized it was Roz doing the voice over. I've never seen her in anything except Frasier.

Loved me some Roz. I loved the episode where Frasier and Niles think her latest bf is gay leading into the infamous Bad Billy's and Frasier's tiny white shorts adventure.

Maybe Lisa Kudrow failed the chemistry test with Kelsey. Peri was next level good.

r256, not whiny--ditzy.

David Lee concurs. (at 9:30)

"It has to be somebody who can stand up to him, who can go toe to toe to him, who can give as good as she gets from him. And that's not Lisa Kudrow. Lisa was funny in a whole different, quirky way, but it's not somebody who is a formidable opponent for Frasier Crane. And we realized it about four days in and unfortunately told Lisa that we weren't continuing with her and gave the call to Peri, who couldn't have been more thrilled and stepped in and gave us exactly what we wanted and what we needed. That was a tough lady."

This is nice:

Gilpin recalled bonding with Kudrow as they went through several rounds together of trying out for the role. “Lisa and I went on at least five auditions together for Roz,” the Frasier star recalled. “We became fast friends because we were in the same boat, young actresses trying to get a job.”

.....

Gilpin gave props to Kudrow for contacting her personally to wish her luck on the show. “Lisa called me later and said, ‘I want you to know this is your job. I don’t want you to feel bad about it. I want you to enjoy it,’” the Frasier actress revealed. “She’s amazing.”

That's an awfully self-asorbed and patronizing comment from Kudrow R263. No doubt she meant well, but sheesh...it's not as if Gilpin need her official stamp of approval, especially after they 'bonded' while auditioning.

R195, Did people really know of, or pay attention to, Grammer's politics during the show's original run?

Was his character's humor "self-deprecating"? Snobby, pompous Frasier?

R265 You're asking the wrong question.

Kelsey Grammer didn't have to say "I am a Racist and a Republican" for people to know it. Back then (as now) you knew what people were by what they DID and the way they moved about the world.

Grammer produced (and starred in) a show set in a major metropolitan area where he completely erased all minorities. That speaks volumes!

Grammer talked about running for POTUS during the run of his show. It was no doubt to anyone paying attention which side he would have come down on.

Donald Trump has done a lot of things, but he didn't "make" the Republican Party racist. He only helped expose who they were to those in denial (and being willfully ignorant) about the party's long racist past (and present).

Stop using Trump as a smokescreen.

The question you should be asking is what did Grammer do with Frasier to show he "wasn't" a GOP racist piece of shit?

And I don't wanna hear about "other" projects he may have done involving minorities AFTER Frasier and all the blowback he got for years of NOT being inclusive. I am sure those other projects were very lucrative for him. Besides, "separate but equal" is inherently unequal.

Certainly other shows during the original run of Frasier were more inclusive and representative of an America that is for all people. Why didn't he do that with "HIS" show?

People show you who they are if you care to pay attention.

A lot of racist White people like to "unnaturally" and illogically do what I call "carve outs." They want to talk about a specific period in time without acknowledging EVERYTHING that came before it.

We all have the benefit of history. Grammer had the same benefit of history before 1993. Why did he make an intentional choice to ignore that racist history and not do something better with HIS show?

Why do you people want to ignore the history of racism in Hollywood before Frasier in order to give Grammer a pass? You are disingenuous in asking a question about Kelsey Grammer's political beliefs and stand on racism when we all know the answer and knew it then.

Everything he has said and done SINCE has only confirmed what those paying attention already knew. So don't play crazy. It's not a good look.

Finally, if you think Frasier wasn't self-deprecating and snobby then you clearly have not watched the program - especially in how he tried to pick up women. LOL

Frasier and Niles both were poor examples of strong confident men. That was kind of a running joke. The father basically considered them weak little "sissies." They hid behind the snobbery because they were very insecure.

r264, there's nothing self-absorbed about Kudrow's comment, and clearly the person who she said it to and who's telling the story 28 years later didn't receive it that way, but hey, clearly you know better.

Frasier wasn't as popular as Friends and Seinfeld. Viewers preferred the fluff and eye candy on Friends. They also preferred watching Seinfeld try to create new, gimmicky catchphrases each week. Frasier was more low-key and intellectual. For that reason, even a lot of Cheers fans didn't stay with it.

R267, same with Friends, Cheers, and 90% of the shows on television prior to the last 2-3 years. And now, everyone's so terrified of offending the professional victims like yourself, EVERY SINGLE SHOW has it's token POC, or several, and it just doesn't reflect reality.

You could say the same thing about shows on BET: Why aren't there more white folk? Where are the asians? Same difference.

[quote] has it's token POC,

Oh, dear.

R266, I said he was snobby. But Frasier also thought of himself as brilliant, successful, suave, sophisticated, and charming. There has never been such an erudite lead.

Sure, there were some self-deprecating jokes; they come with the romance territory in sit-coms. But that was not Frasier's general persona. He was not portrayed as some nebbish loser.

Just look at his apartment and with whom, at his discretion, he lives. He doesn't share the rent and space with "Friends," and his parent lives with him, not vice-versa. He has live-in help; he isn't the help.

As for Kelsey Grammer's politics: I abhor them. But when he is Frasier, I laugh.

Sue me.

I would, but I lost my law license.

I finished to the last one. All in all an excellent, very well written and acted show. It had a satisfying ending too. I may give it a bit and start from the beginning again.

I think is a terrible show because Kelsey is such a ham, though Niles and Roz are good.

The point is that Frasier is a bit of a ham. Pompous and pretentious.

It's a great show that still holds up. I'll start rewatching it again because of this thread.

We were out getting laid. Gays didn't watch network television.

For the poster above who was considering trying Cheers next, you may also be interested in "Out of Practice," the short-lived sitcom about a family of doctors that Lloyd and Keenan created after Frasier ended. It's not great and never quite gelled (some of the characters aren't sharp enough, including the lead), but it's similar tonally and could have developed over time. Most of the episodes are on Youtube. Here's one that Lloyd is credited with writing:

Stockard Channing was also nominated for an Emmy for OOP. Here's her Emmy submission (it's a terrible transfer, but it has Frasier-style hijinks set at a party, the always fun Valerie Mahaffey, and Channing is funny, even though Emmy-worthy may be a stretch).

Amusing that the diversity troll kept this thread going longer so we can talk about how much we love the show.

Did the diversity troll ever spend time in Seattle in the 90’s? It wasn’t as diverse when Frasier first aired, even less so in the circles Frasier would have traveled in.

It wasn’t until Microsoft and Amazon exploded that Seattle’s population became much more diverse.

Sadly MS and Amazon have also destroyed much of the soul Seattle had in the 90’s. I was there a few weekends ago and capital hill is unrecognizable now.

^ oh dearing myself. *Capitol

I guess in the reboot Frasier and Niles will host a podcast produced by Roz?

Was thinking about how the producers were originally thinking of Frasier having a sister, until the casting director suggested that, if they went with a brother, they should consider David Hyde-Pierce, who they weren't familiar with. And that pretty much made the show.

Later when the same creators (and a couple of Frasier vets) did the short-lived Nathan Lane sitcom Encore Encore, they used a similar premise of a son moving back home, gave him the originally conceived sister, and a mother instead of a father--and the show didn't work at all. The lead character was too broad and unlikable (Frasier was really fortunate to have a sharply defined character who'd been developed over the previous 9 years), and the family members had no chemistry together (which was key to Frasier's success). Plus, where Niles was the more extreme character who made Frasier look more grounded by comparison, Lane's sister was the more normal one, so he looked even more extreme. Frasier really was a case where they got everything just right; Encore Encore was the opposite.

Happy Friday!!

It's still Thursday in east coast, USA.

But it’s Friday in Australia!

So was Dr. Frasier Crane and MD/PhD or just an MD? In one episode his father pokes fun at the "guy with a PhD" not being able to figure something out. But most of the times it's clear he had an MD.

Kelsey Grammer was a sex symbol on par with Richard Gere and George Clooney.

No love for Marsha Mason as Dad’s coarse girlfriend Sherry Dempsey?

Loved when Frasier was bitching about her lewd limericks “which included a fellow fortuitously named Horatio.”

R287, he was Dr. Frasier Crane M.D., Ph.D., A.P.A.

R290 The periods are optional. Many today don't use them, so it's MD and PhD but either way is acceptable.

[quote] The periods are optional.

Tell that to my ex-wife.

Niles and Daphne getting together didn’t kill the show. Making Daphne’s mother a recurring character was the final nail.

I adored Daphne's mother.

Daphne's mom didn't bother me either.

i was watching the show the other day and it was hilarious that Frasier still made Daphne answer the door after she was married to Niles

Daphne's mother was an extremely useless and grating character on a show which hit all the right notes in terms of casting for a very long time. I guess the idea is to somehow create a constant source of mishaps and obstacles to harmony in Daphne and Niles' married life but it didn't work *at all*.

I just saw the double episodes when Martin and Sherry broke up and someone needed to stab her. Or at least Roz needed to sweat all over her in her jogging suit.

I'm on my second binge watch of Frasier in the past few months. Most episodes still provide at least on really good laugh, some several. I can't say that about any other show that's been on in the past decade at least. For sure now I believe Niles is the heart of the show. What ever became of that actor?

He's selling Amway, r299.

I’m watching the DaPhyllis episode.

[quote] Frasier still made Daphne answer the door after she was married to Niles

𝑰𝒕'𝒔 𝒘𝒉𝒂𝒕 𝒔𝒉𝒆 𝒅𝒐𝒆𝒔 !

I loved the Millenium episode.

It was hilarious..the only thing I didn't really get was the Miles Daphne thing. Miles was so gay.

I never understood why Daphne, hired as a live in physical therapist, became their maid and housekeeper. She did way more laundry, cooking, cleaning, shopping, dog walking than she did doing PT with Martin for a few minutes a day. Some might say they treated her like family so she became the woman of the house but how nicely would they have treated her if from the beginning she told them she is the PT and not the maid and refused to do all the chores? On top of it they did not even appreciate her cooking 3 meals a day plus snacks for them. They always made fun of her cooking.

Frasier should never be compared with Friends, apparently, they were on TV opposite each other? I don't recall. I loved Frasier for the smart writing and great casting. Since so many have gushed over Friends, I watched several episodes, over a dozen. Friends was silly-stupid. Frasier is the gold standard of comedic TV.

r305, cooking and cleaning was part of the job. Niles mentions it in the pilot when he suggests Frasier hire someone.

Niles: Funny you should mention that. Maris and I were just discussing this. We feel we should do more to share the responsibility.

Frasier: You mean you'd take him in?

Niles: Dear God, no! But we would be willing to help you pay for a home care worker.

Frasier: A what?

Niles: You know, someone who cooks and cleans and can help Dad with his physical therapy.

Frasier: These angels exist?

Niles: I know of an agency - let me arrange for them to send a few people over to meet with you.

-----------------------

Of course, it also wasn't supposed to be a live-in position, so maybe when they agreed to let her move in, taking on even more of the cooking and cleaning became part of it.

I was lucky enough to stumble onto this show in my mid-30s, by that point I was old enough to appreciate the real comedy and brilliance in the writing of this show.

I was in my teens when all these shows (this, Friends, Seinfeld; were airing, and they weren't engaging then, so really out of place now) started illustrating the downslide network tv was taking as premium channel content started skyrocketing (Oz, Sopranos, original S&TC). The Cheers finale was like a television funeral of sorts. I actually never was able to get into that show, but the tone of Frasier is totally different and DHP has amazing delivery of the most absolute absurd. There's too much to love in this show, and the competitiveness over the petty was elevated to an art with the chemistry in this cast.

R308 again, to answer the OPs question, Grammer and his fur shirt, pseudo mullet with the frizzy curl look was the antithesis of hot.

R67, say what now?

I was in high school during it's prime years and was way too cool to watch some lame sitcom. Now? I can quote most episodes.

As others have said, Cozi TV is a 90s sitcom heaven: Frasier, The Nanny, Roseanne, Will and Grace.

One of those shows is always my bedtime TV go to.

[quote] I was in high school during it's prime years

Obviously too cool to pay attention in English class also.

Frasier had my favourite Christmas episodes of any sitcom

The Christmas episodes were a special kind of hell for me

Gimme A Break is going to be on Cozi tv!

Highly lauded show. No, KG was not ever considered "hot." And that's part of the comedy.

[quote]The creators quickly hired Peri Gilpin, their second choice.

I'm surprised Lisa Kudrow was a serious candidate considering they had worked with Peri Gilpin twice before, she played a reporter who interviews Woody on an episode of Cheers and she played a woman who dates Brian on an episode of Wings.

During a Wings re-watch I noticed one of the producers was named Roz Doyle.

Here's her scene on Wings:

John Mahoney was also on an episode of Cheers. Oops, I mean Chers.

A Frasier reboot sounds like a spectacularly bad idea.

In fact, most reboots sound terrible. I admit Roseanne > The Conners has had its charmed, and I enjoyed Murphy Brown as a limited run. But Frasier was already fried and out of gas when it ended.

Without Joe Keenan's words and John Mahoney and the others, it will be utterly pedestrian shit.

Lisa Kudrow was also on Cheers fighting for Woody

[quote] Pseudo English? Jane Leeves is English, she was born in Ilford.

Why didn't they just write Daphne as someone from the South of England? Leeves was awful in her attempts at Mancunian and spoke in some awful generic, pseudo-Northern, working class accent. She would have been better off just speaking with her natural accent.

Did the writers think that a working class "Northern" accent would be funnier to American audiences than a middle class Southern English accent, which is what Leeves spoke with in real life at least back then?

I was trying to find out why Daphne was from Manchester and learning something else, the originally wanted Rosie Perez:

[quote][bold]Peter Casey:[/bold] Now it’s like you’re hot at a crap’s table. For the health-care worker, we said to picture Rosie Perez. Warren asked if we ever pictured her as English, because NBC loved Jane Leeves. If we went that way, she’d be pre-approved.

[quote]The network gave them the green light. Grammer however, initially balked at the idea of casting Leeves.

[quote][bold]Kelsey Grammer:[/bold] I was nervous about a British-accented housekeeper turning us into a dreadful Nanny and the Professor. So, I asked to read with her.

[quote][bold]Peter Casey:[/bold] Kelsey escorts Jane into David Angell’s office. The three of us go to follow and Kelsey says, “No, just me and her.” The door closes, and we’re left standing there sweating. About a minute later, the door swings open. Kelsey blows right by us and without turning around says, “She’s in.”

*learned ^

and "the originally" should be "they originally."

Bebe was my favorite character in all of sitcom history.

And I love that they need this evil creature after Bebe Neuwirth.

Frasier: So, Bebe. However did you land Dr. Phil? Bebe: We met about a year ago at a charity donkey basketball game. Frasier: Donkey basketball? Bebe: Texas, darling. It's like the symphony to them.

R317 indeed, Roz Doyle was a real producer on Wings

from IMDB [quote]During production of the Pilot of Wings, she received a call in the editing bay that she had terminal cancer. She cried for a moment and then finished the show. The character "Roz" from Frasier, a show created by the creators of Wings, was named in her honor. Doyle died in 1991, but Wings and Frasier lasted eight and 11 seasons, respectively.

Peri Gilpin was terrific as Roz. I always found her very sexy. She and Chaka Khan are the only women whom I've found sexy enough to make me a little curious about what it would be like to have sex with a woman.

[quote] Peri Gilpin was terrific as Roz. I always found her very sexy. She and Chaka Khan are the only women whom I've found sexy enough to make me a little curious about what it would be like to have sex with a woman

Ultimately, i doubt you’d enjoy it much, beyond the ‘I’m having sex’ part, but yes, there ARE certain women who make you go ‘hmmm…’

This thread inspired me, and i just finished a rewatch of season one. What an amazing, literate, and FUNNY show! I haven’t seen most of the first season in almost thirty years, but when Niles subbed for Frasier and warned that, while Frasier was a Freudian while he was a Jungian: “so there’ll be NO blaming mother TODAY!” The line came back like I’d heard it yesterday.

And the Lilith episode? When she calls in and starts talking, and the audience goes WILD with recognition of that VOICE! And the way Bebe Neuwirth delivers her venom so casually, making what SHOULD be overwritten dialogue slither from her tongue? And the Niles vs Frasier throwdown, as two educated, sophisticated men revert to infancy, enacting their childhood sibling dynamic? Brilliant!

What a show. It actually got better over season one as the characters got sharper. Kelsey Grammer was no fool. He let others in the cast get as many laughs as he did, which makes for a classic.

Tedious, pretentious, and very unfunny. But then, that's why so many people loved it. The Anti-Sienfeld, I suppose.

R330 You sound tedious, pretentious and very unfunny.

It poked fun of Frasier’s and Niles’ high brow pretensions. And also poked fun at Martin’s low brow pretensions.

[quote] Tedious, pretentious, and very unfunny. But then, that's why so many people loved it. The Anti-Sienfeld, I suppose

As a seinfeld fan, i find this a strange comparison, since, at least the first five-six seasons of Seinfeld are also smartly written and executed television, and I’m pretty sure ‘Seinfeld’ got equal or higher ratings. I’ve literally never heard anyone unfavorably compare the two. Other than the characters on ‘Frasier’ being generally more likable, i don’t get the ‘anti-Seinfeld’ comment at all.

And ironic that you would call it ‘pretentious,’ since part of the show’s ongoing theme was that highly educated and sophisticated men like Niles and Frasier were often petty, immature, and impulsive, and that, for all their intellectual interests and accomplishments, they often demonstrated far less wisdom than Martin, Daphne and Roz, and lacked the basic common sense that all three exhibited.

Of course, all this talk of ‘themes’ could mark ME as ‘pretentious,’ but maybe YOU’RE just kinda dumb?

R330, "Unfunny"? You sound severely humor-impaired.

The "pretensiousness" was written into the script as jokes deflating it; the SHOW ITSELF wasn't pretentious! Erudite, yes, indeed. Sorry if you didn't get the allusions!

"Tedious"? Cue a Frasier crack about the audience for "Fast and Furious 37."

I laughed...I cried...

Yes. It was so good that I dumped a friend who eviscerated me for watching it, suggesting I was a simpleton and lemming. It was him or Frasier.

To this day I do not regret my decision.

I like watching Frasier before I get ready for bed. And episode or two of Frasier sets me up for a happy, dreamless sleep.

r335, you're supposed to say "All the laughter, all the tears.".

[quote] Yes. It was so good that I dumped a friend who eviscerated me for watching it, suggesting I was a simpleton and lemming. It was him or Frasier. To this day I do not regret my decision

He followed you here! He’s at r330.

You made the right choice!

I never got the big almost belly laughs our of Seinfeld that I get from Frasier. Also I never could stand watching reruns of Seinfeld. I saw them once when they first aired and that was enough. I'm sure I've seen every episode of Frasier at least 20 times, currently binge watching it again. It never gets old. Also the Seinfeld characters all became horrible people by the end of the series. The Frasier characters stayed true and lovable to the end. Maybe the Daphne/Miles story became a little boring after they got together but still quite watchable. Not so with Seinfeld. I can't stand that show or the actors now.

Niles and Frasier are watching Antiques Roadshow with their dad (the entire scene is hilarious, including the "veneer" drinking game). Daphne comes out to show Martin and the boys the wedding dress suggested by Donny.

Niles and Frasier are surprised and pleased that due to Antiques Roadshow, they can talk "Biedermeier" and "credenza" and objets d'art with their dad.

Niles--who at this stage in the sit-com is still suffering unrequited love re: Daphne--remarks, "It's as if that panhandler I gave money to was a genie granting all my wishes."

Daphne walks in and asks her question.

Frasier looks up at Niles and mutters, "How much money did you give him?"

[quote] Also the Seinfeld characters all became horrible people by the end of the series.

Then the actors did their jobs. They were supposed to be horrible people with whom no one would form friendships or relationships with. That was the whole point!

That's fine for a showcase of the actor's talents. That does not mean I have to like watching it, so I don't. Plenty of shows ended without turning the characters into monsters. Like Modern Family, Everybody Loves Raymond, Frasier, in fact almost every show. Roseanne did the same like Seinfeld, all the characters became horrible, lazy people by the end. When the Roseanne first began she and Dan were struggling financially but it was very much pointed out that they both were hard working people who took pride in what they did and as shitty as their jobs were they worked to the best of their ability and they all loved each other very much. It didn't end that way.

Besides, as far as Roseanne goes I would never watch her again in anything after the shit she pulled on Twitter, showing her true bigoted self. Then using such a stupid Ambien excuse instead of just apologizing.

“No, we are descended from thieves and whores”- Frasier

I take your point, r343. And very good argument.

(R179) I was working for an NBC affiliate at the time and begged the network's affiliate relations VP to get me two tickets to the taping of the "Dr. Nora" episode. I was about to celebrate my birthday and that sealed the deal.

I drove from San Luis Obispo to LA well ahead of time and was fascinated by the process of making a three-camera sitcom (a now-standard production system invented by Desi Arnaz for taping "I Love Lucy"). The studio had a comic on hand to warm up the audience with a standup routine and to tell jokes between setups.

One aspect of the production that surprised me was that the tech crew would strike a set after a scene was completed while taping was going on elsewhere. The physical layout had the huge living room in the center, Cafe Nervosa off to the right and the radio studio to the left of the living room. So after the actors taped their scene in the coffee shop, the techies would very, very quietly pack up and remove the furniture and bar while the actors were in the living room.

Normally, the producers would conduct a first taping of an episode followed by a dinner break for the cast and crew. Then everyone would gather on stage for a second taping. The show's editors would routinely take the best moments from both tapings to assemble a completed show. Trouble was, we in the audience weren't allowed to leave the studio during the dinner break and Paramount didn't provide snacks. So it meant a long afternoon and evening for members of the audience without anything to do in the interim. Keep in mind this was before the advent of smartphones.

But it was fun to watch the actors occasionally blow their lines and yell out "Fuck!" Both DHP and John Mahoney did that a few times. It was nice to know they could be truly human in those moments.

Veronica's Closet was a MUCH better s(h)itcom!

It doesn't even feel all that long since it was on. These "eldergays" threads depress me.

Great story, r346. Was this during Kelsey Grammer’s druggie period?

When I watch Frasier in reruns now I am surprised by how attractive I find DHP in the last few years of the show. Not Niles the character but how DHP looked once he got slightly older. It's odd because I had never thought of him as handsome or sexy before.

I think DHP looked so much better with a fuller head of hair. I'm just the opposite. I think he was hot in the first few seasons. I actually think Frasier looked better with the longer hair he had in the first season or two as well. I mean even with the balding top. Without any doubt Daph certainly looked much better in her younger years. Her face got harder as she aged. I remember her on Murphy Brown and she was really adorable then.

Just saw this article with an actress who's currently on the show Julia with David Hyde-Pierce. Her comments on Frasier reminded me about the question above about whether it was popular in the UK.

---

"Okay, silly opener, but are you a Frasier fan? If I was around David Hyde Pierce and Bebe Neuwirth all day, I wouldn’t stop talking about how much I love Frasier.

I am. Very much so! I didn’t have any scenes with Bebe in the first episode, but I did with David. Listen, I’m not one of these people who can hold back. I was like, Oh my God, I’m such a fan of Frasier! He was so willing to talk about it. In England and Ireland, it’s constantly replayed and is very much a part of our lives all the time. You put the telly on and there’s Frasier. He was like, “This is great; it’s been so long since I talked about the show.” I was thinking to myself, What are you talking about? I just saw you the other day with Martin and Daphne on TV. Bebe talked a bit about Cheers as well. To see them together onscreen made me way too excited.'"

This seems as good of a place to put this as any:

DEADLINE: Speaking of Frasier, do you know anything about where things stand with the reboot?

PIERCE: I don’t know where they stand. I haven’t talked to Kelsey in a while. The last time I talked to him, I knew that it was a work in progress, and I think it still is in the works.

DEADLINE: With all the talk about it over the years, have you thought at all about where you’d want to see those characters?

PIERCE: My feeling was always that they had gone on their way, and I wasn’t really thinking about where they had gone. I went on to other shows. But I think if I saw a script where I went, “Oh my gosh, how interesting. Who would have thought that this is what they’re doing?” That’s why I never say I wouldn’t do it. It’s about how their story is told, because I care a lot about those people, those actors. This is how I always pick my projects, now that I have the luxury of picking them: I take them because I have to. That’s what happened with Julia. I read this script and I thought, I have to do this part. I want to explore this person and explore this relationship. And so, if I were to see a script of a Frasier reboot that I had to do, I would do it.

according to IMDB it only ran from 1993-2004 so no OP

We leave at daybreak!

There was a huge telecomm crash here in Canada on Friday, no internet, phone, or cable for a large part of the country for over 18 hours. Anyway, I have the entire series on DVD and finally cracked it open.

I haven't seen it since it originally aired in 1993 - 2004, and I appreciate it so much more now than I did then.

I heard that Kelsey Grammer is a MAGAt recently and it just about broke my heart. He's so typecast to this character that it's hard to picture him a Republican Death Cultist. Perhaps he's an angry person given the multiple tragedies he endured when young.

Anyhow, really enjoying my trip down memory lane. I forgot how great the writing was.

I often have it on in the background when I'm eating. I never watched it when it first ran. Even now I find it kind of meh. The whole Daphne/Miles storyline goes on and on and on and I used to think she was cute but her accent grates on me now. I never watched Cheers either because I never found it funny. I loathe Ted Dawson for some reason. And I HATE both of the women that were his love interests. I figure it's because both shows are male driven and I'm a lesbian so...

I hated Seinfeld, too. Unwatchable.

btw, Scott Atkinson died at 56 of a drug overdose.

i recognize the line of translation scene from I Love Lucy