What's with the infantilization among young people today?

Youth is wasted on the young.

Not surprised if American. Have you paid attention to the past 4 years? To our last president? The reaction to a national pandemic? The entire country is a mess of childish self-entitled brats regardless of biological age.

I know that it's happening, R2, but the question is WHY?

What do young people think about it? Is this why so many people have a 'daddy' fixation nowadays... because they don't need just a lover but also a parent?

Young people are taught that first parents and later the government should take care of them instead of people taking care of themselves. That dependency is inherently infantilizing.

This is why I stay off social media. I just can't take the drama, the whining, the infantilization, the sharing-too-much information. It's over the top.

I know a 24 year old guy who just bought one of these

They need a war. And happily, it's coming.

What the fuck is going on in the pic at OP's post?

Reminds me of a line in an early E.F. Benson "Lucia" book where he described the two girls Piggie and Goosie gamboling about the village green to show what relatively young ages 32 and 34 were.

Is he one of those Disney fanatics, R6?

When visiting friends in San Diego in 2019, we went to Disneyland because I had been there as a 6 yo child. Saccharine artificiality aside, I was shocked about how blatantly consumerist the whole thing was. Cheap stuff, made in China, sold for premium prices--and people spent thousands upon thousands of bucks on this shit.

My friend tried to explain to me that, for most of them, being in Disneyland was a short return to their carefree childhood and an escape from reality.

I know a guy who was in college when his father died unexpectedly. He immediately dropped all of his interests and only wanted to do the things he had done as a child — things like collecting Star Wars and Happy Meal toys, constant Disney trips, eating Pop-Tarts and kids' cereal, etc. He even changed his major to something he had no interest in, because it was the one his father had always pushed.

At first I thought it was temporary, due to the shock of his father dying so suddenly. But here we are, almost two decades later, and he's wearing Grinch onesies, talking about butter-beer recipes, and planning to get a giant Space Mountain tattooed on his back with Daddy's face at various ages hidden in the clouds above it.

I keep in touch (from afar) because it's so entertaining.

Is it new? I’m 45. When I graduated high school and got my first full time job, I realized quickly most of my coworkers who were twice my age were irresponsible children - drinking, drugging, partying. Sure they had kids themselves not that they acted like it. Meanwhile I see kids today with their shit together, reliable, good jobs, saving money, maybe struggling to get by, but not total fucking shit shows. Who cares if they are obsessing over some anime or gaming bullshit in their free time or wearing cat ears on Instagram.

My youngest daughter is 26, put herself through college (first 2 years community, last 2 university), got married, bought her first house a year and a half ago, zero college debt and not much credit card debt and is about to give birth to her first child in 3 weeks. Chose mental health as a profession and truly enjoys what she does. She's not rich money-wise, but she is rich life-wise and has made some wise life choices. I'm really proud of her and she most definitely has her shit together.

Xers had to look after themselves from very young ages, which is why alll other generations are insufferable, OP.

Maybe if younger generations hadn't been provided a world with greatly diminished career and home-ownership prospects, stagnant wages, crippled unions, ballooning student loan debt, etc., maybe they would behave more according to their critics' expectations.

I think it takes a lot of nerve to produce a world as broken as this one and then criticize young people for failing to cope with it according to your preferences.

R4 also, there used to be community now everything is soulless. No matter how “connected” we are via the internet it will never be the good connections we had prior to the late 2000s. Also, they’re borderline schizophrenic from feeling like they’re under a microscope 24/7. We think too far beyond our personal microcosms and it’s driving everyone insane. The human brain can only process so much. These “kids” are shutting down and trying but failing too internalize. We like a close knit, friendly world and this one is not that anymore.

Technology Killed the Human Being

It's not that they like weird or nerdy stuff, R12, it's more about whether it's telegraphed to the whole world. As a child of the 80s, I'm a big Star Wars nerd myself, but I would never show that outside my closest social bubble. Also, although I am a big fan, I have a detached appreciation for it and wouldn't dress up as a character or go to big fan events or anything like this. I also don't collects thousands of action figures and display them in my home.

Ah, fuck off, Ooze! Show me a generation that had it easy.

This is the result of helicopter parenting and bulldozer parenting, which are the result of mothers subconsciously feeling guilty about having careers.

I knew things were weird when a young woman at work kept talking about her "birthday month." Apparently, birthday months are now a thing where every day is special.

R19 once in awhile Defacto is correct. We’ve devalued motherhood and now everyone is suffering the consequences. Mothers just aren’t what they used to be.

It’s a generation of Lathers!

Hey, R15, I'm pretty sure that people who were young adults during WW1 or the Depression were too busy "adulting" to act like children.

r20, that doesn't just extend to young people. my longtime friend who is 55 thinks March is her birthday month as well. That has been going on for years.

That's insane, R24. Is your friend a narcissist?

Duh. It’s an offshoot of the baby-talking, bleached blonde, boob job Barbie that is the ultimate goal.

I know a grown man who makes such a fuss over his birthday every year that I barely acknowledge it at all because I don't want to give him the satisfaction.

It starts with "next month is my birthday!" then a month long countdown to the big day, featuring photos and remembrances of previous birthdays. Every card and gift gets a post, even the cards businesses send out. There's a party no one wants to attend, and then the rest of his "birthday month" is spent reminding everyone of how he celebrated this year. He does a huge post the last day of the month, two fucking weeks after his birthday, reflecting on the end of his "birthday month."

He's constantly in attention seeking mode, and the birthday makes him insufferable.

He's in his mid-50s, FFS. My nieces and nephews are less childish about their birthdays.

R18

In my post, I actually discussed concrete metrics for quality of life and life opportunity that have been declining significantly over time, disproportionately negatively affecting younger generations. I'm not sure why that doesn't qualify to you as comparing the extent to which generations "had it easy". Also, I can't both "fuck off" AND 'show you a generation that had it easy'. Because those two things are mutually exclusive. If I fucked off, how could I show you anything?

R23

Well, I hope they managed to fit in a lot of "adulting" since the life expectancy during WWI was 57 years old!

The world has always seemed broken. Don't buy into that "boomers got great jobs out of college" bullshit. Most women had shitty jobs that paid half what their male counterparts made but the sexual harassment was free. Let's look at the rest of the list: Ballooning student loans--refinance, see if Biden will restore loan forgiveness programs, lobby for loan relief; . Greatly diminished career and home-ownership prospects--that's true only of LA, NYC and a few other major cities. Move somewhere else. Create a business that allows telecommuting. Stagnant wages--Sorry but it's always been that way in certain fields. Either live well on less or figure a way to generate passive income. Guys, life is hard. Sometimes it sucks. It's true you may deserve better but so does the Darfur orphan. Appreciate what you've got rather than be miserable about what you don't have. Develop resilience. Look at problems as challenges. Don't take yourself so damn seriously and do some volunteer work. Crippled unions--elect Democrats.

It’s the conspiracy of boomer parents and the internet.

Boomers treated their children like the second coming.

Access to the internet gives millennials and zees information without having to work to get it.

So you have a generation that has never had to exert itself to get anything. Is it any wonder they won’t grow up? They don’t have to.

I don't get it, R27. Most Xers I know didn't really have elaborate birthday parties as children. Sleepovers with movies and pizza as pre-teens, McDonald's Playland when very young, maybe a day of horseback riding or at a hobby farm etc...

The over-the-top birthday parties for children didn't seem to really start until the later 80s/90s for middle class kids. I always had a great time at my and my friends' birthday parties, but no one's parents were spending hundreds, and most of the kids I knew growing up were solid middle class or above.

I'm genX as well. I enjoy some whimsy, but I also can schedule doctor appointments and file my taxes without calling my parents for help. My younger co-workers are riddled with the strangest social anxieties.

I was a latch key kid, and my parents were not that fascinated by me. They were wrapped up in their own lives.

Childhood is well served by benign neglect and less technology. We were forced out of our comfort zones, thankfully.

I do see many young people living life well, and understand every generation criticizes the next. In general, though, childhood is extending into adulthood and maturity isn't valued the same way.

I’m sure the Run-on Paragraph Frau at R29 hates men

Wow, I thought the "birthday month" thing was something that a guy I know just made up. I thought it was so bizarre that every day of his birthday month, he would post a pic of him doing this or that, renting a hotel room one weekend, renting the backroom of a restaurant the next. I thought it was bizarre. And it wasn't even a landmark birthday. Maybe if it was 30 or 40 or 50, I might understand, but 34??

If it makes them happy, fine, but I found it tedious.

China won, Russia is laughing hysterically, and America just pooped itself....again.

The dismissive attitude of baby boomers toward the actual, real declining opportunity structure and quality of life of younger generations is a large part of the reason for: Okay, Boomer.

You just don't want to hear about real societal changes that have differently impacted younger people.

I'm nope-ing out of this thread...

R36 and they won’t retire because they’re greedy as Fuck.

The ultimate proof that you're immature is pointing out that no one ever had it as bad as you do, and then finding someone to scapegoat.

The internet creates a satisfaction problem, no accomplishment is ever good enough. Boomers don’t understand growing up with that mental programming of comparing yourself on a global scale.

r25 she grew up dirt poor in rural Oregon, big family with like 7 siblings, but made her way through life at a fairly early age making decent money in banking. She worked her way to making over 100k a year and living in LA as a young single mom and owning a home in Culver City. I think she had a healthy sense of self and felt that she deserved a certain lifestyle. She owns a home up in Sonoma County worth well over 750k, has a Tesla, works from home (but even did before the pandemic) and both her kids graduated from prestigious colleges and are doing well/own their own homes in their late 20's/early 30's. She likes a good celebration, i guess. And yes, she is well-traveled/loves to vacation often and does often visit Disneyland as well (obviously no vacations during Covid). She did all this on her own - not that she's a millionaire, but she is self-made, no help from family who are still (for the most part) pretty poor. So i think she uses her entire "birthday month" to celebrate where she came from and where she is now. Not excusing it, because i certainly do subscribe to this for myself. But i give her some leeway about it.

R31 I don't understand it, either. He doesn't come from a wealthy family who fawned over him, nor a neglectful one. Very average. Somehow he just didn't get the memo that the rest of the world isn't revolving around him. I think it might be a failed actor syndrome.

Yes, the birthday parties and celebrations in general are over the top now. My friends with kids go all out for freaking Valentine's Day and St. Patrick's. Presents for St Patrick's Day, along with custom ordered outfits.

I think they are setting kids up for disappointment by making everything a big production and gifts gifts gifts. Adulthood is going to smack these kids right back into their parents' basements.

R39, it's not that we don't understand constant comparison. It's that we had therapy and we learned that you have to turn that shit off if you're ever going to be happy.

I usually dislike Ooze's posts, but he is right.

*because i certainly doN'T subscribe to this for myself.

I would never argue that genX had it hardest. That said, challenges in childhood more often lead to mature adults, as long as the challenges didn't emotionally damage them beyond repair.

Financially things have changed, and we need to address that as a nation. Our middle class is sinking. It may look the same on the outside, but in reality people are living perilously close to the edge.

The cost of health care and higher education are out of control. Obviously we should strive to make the best of what we have, but it's foolish to ignore the impact finances have on quality of life.

I was stunned to see the current tuition/room and board at my state school Alma mater. In a little over 20 years it more than doubled. I can assure you starting wages in my field did not, and the benefits are much less than they were when I was hired.

The environment is absolutely worse than it's ever been before. By the way, how many cars does your family own? This boomer has never bought one and buys things off the secondary market--ebay, thrift stores, craigslist and so on.

The concentration of wealth among billionaires is the worst it's ever been and they've corrupted the political process.

I see a side of this in which adults find any odd to their experience "spooky," "scary," "so weird!", "creepy!". The young buyers on HGTV's "House Hunters" react to mildly unfamiliar things as though it were Scooby Doo & his friends spelunking in a haunted cave.

These are not decrepit, cobwebbed High Victorian Gothic mansions with ebonized woodwork and coffins made into dining tables, they are loft conversions with a washer and dryer in the kitchen. The kitchen! That's so weird! Love long enough, travel far enough, go inside enough homes and you will find laundry appliances in s kitchen, but it's never, "Huh, laundry in the kitchen, not sure if I like that or not," it's weird and spooky and super strange, as if a chandelier made of human eyeballs.

Anything not quite familiar draws trepidation and speculation. A series of low doors opening to storage space in the upper bedrooms is not, "Oh, storage for suitcases and boxes and things" it's "Oh that's so super creepy! Who lives behind those little doors? Why did the do that? What's the purpose? Spooky! Weird!". Are they fucking idiots? It's a house built six years ago, not some crookedy, creaky house where Tituba and Rebecca Nurse got up to the dark magic that exploded the Salem witch trials.

It seems a fundamental retardation of curiosity and mental processing to react to anything the tiniest bit new or off or unfamiliar as icky, spooky, weird, scary. Yet I see those reactions often to the mostly mildly "unusual" things. The first reaction is never, "Oh, that's unexpected. I like it," it's always a negative and a level of discomfort with anything new to their experience.

r47 can you never imagine yourself as a young person seeing antiquated features/things for the first time you'd never encountered? it happens all the time. laundry chutes, dumbwaiters and the like? sometimes younger people didn't grow up exposed to all of that and when you see people reacting, you may need to check yourself because we all have the discovery of youth and things we never experienced. likely if i came to live in the UK after growing up in the US, i'd have some weird discoveries about the way other people in other times or other places lived. i don't think that's what this thread is about, necessarily. plus younger people these days are very verbal about their likes and dislikes in a pretty open way...they kind of blurt out things right away rather than think about them before speaking. THAT is definitely a trait of "young people today."

I see this a lot more on Reddit as of late. Conversations taken over with endless memes about whose cartoons were better, Disney movies, superheroes, video games, etc.

The flip side of that is that I grew up with a lot of people (my age and older) who were in such a damn rush to grow up, especially breeders. They got married, knocked up, and pushed out a bunch of brats way before 30. They aged so fast and they all look like shit now.

A balance is best.

They’re not greedy R36. They’re boring. They don’t read, they have no hobbies, they’re not well-educated so they havent discovered any curiosity about the world beyond their small community. Their lives are centered around their jobs and the people who work with them at their jobs. Their home lives are often miserable and they don’t get along with their spouses.. Why would they retire? Their social lives are their work.

But r50, isn't that pretty much what life has been for most people growing up in towns that aren't adjacent to cities for years and years...very insular and you didn't travel far beyond your town and family? you usually don't know much about life beyond what you are raised in unless you are really curious (i grew up in a rural town and had no idea what life was like beyond my own). and yes, people don't read much than they used to, even me. yes, lives are centered around their jobs and the people they work with and their families. we have expanded quite a bit with the internet and learning about other places/different cultures, but now with the pandemic, we have contracted as well. we have pulled back. so social life is really important now more than ever before. it's a really trying time. just think we need to look at things from a different perspective because even a year and a half ago, we would not be debating some of this due to covid. or maybe we would have, i don't have a crystal ball and who knows, really?

Remember something called the generation gap? Bring it back. Good natured whining about your boomer parents isn't going to cut it, you need to reject the hell out them. For a few years at the very least.

r51 is over 52 years old

Freedom of expression. OP needs to stop clenching her flabby asshole and gets off the internet as she will find every little thing to kvetch every minute until her hear gives out. Get lost, auntie!

Who raised them? There's your answer.

R55, their parents are responsible despite them being grown adults?

Even with the shittiest parents in the world, at some point, people have to take responsibility of their own lives.

If you were born in 1900, you went through WWI, the Great Depression and WW2 by the time you were 45. Oh, and the Spanish Flu epidemic.

The biggest disparity between the rich and everyone else isn't, but the Gilded Age.

Global Warming is a very existential threat, but actual pollution isn't at its worst. The EPA and Clean Air Act made a real difference in the United States. The Cuyahoga River isn't on fire.

Plenty of Boomers work for the very simple reason they can't afford to retire.

Imagining 45 years from now, a TV anchor announces the last boomer has died. The millennials, now senior citizens themselves, are initially gleeful but still bitter about how wonderful their lives could have been if the boomers hadn't screwed things up. Meanwhile, their middle-aged kids hate them for obsessing about Bomba socks and period panties and failing to see the big picture and do anything significant. Some millennials protest these are meaningless stereotypes but no one listens.

R32 nailed it. Parents are too wrapped up with their kids now.

I don't really care if people find joy in cosplay, games, movies or any entertainment, particularly if there is a creative outlet for them. There is a real economic component of this - in previous generations you traded up your 'toys' to bigger 'toys' like boats, cars or other higher ticket items. Millennials can't afford that - many of them cannot get a toe-hold in the economy to get married, own a home or afford to have a baby.

However, there seems to be a trend of almost every article I read by people under 40 where they feel compelled to list their 'anxieties' or social disabilities as if they are inflexible, life-long conditions that cannot be cured or lessened. Most of us had the same fears, anxieties, depression or other but we just got on with life.

My fear is that these 'labels' people have of themselves of their mental condition at a certain age stays with them and prevents them from growing or maturing. It may keep them back in taking risks or trying new things.

BUT, on the flip side of that, taking a risk by moving to a new city or seeking a job in a new place is also much more difficult now. The cost of moving and finding housing is a large financial hurdle. It can cost THOUSANDS of dollars to move to a new city - which wasn't necessarily the case 25-35 years ago. Many probably feel stuck.

R32, Fellow Gen X latchkey kid. Child of divorce whose parents didn't breath down my neck. We were truly the last generation with freedom.

People in their 30s and older will set up a gofundme to pay for some desire of theirs (a trip, a gadget, etc) and share the link to all and sundry, with zero shame. That kills me. What you're doing is begging.

The birthday month is insufferable enough, but lately I've seen people including links to CashApp, etc. with their birthday month announcements. Really? Sure, good luck with that.

Not just infantilism but entitlement is off the charts these days.

R62 - I don't disagree - and I think social media has a lot to do with it. People are so busy creating these fake images and stories of their hum-drum lives, it's like they're trying to create the life they would like to have but can't. Or the life they think they should have instead of creating their own.

Now - in terms of not growing up - gay men have also been accused of that for DECADES. And there is some truth to it.

[quote]I see a side of this in which adults find any odd to their experience "spooky," "scary," "so weird!", "creepy!".

Don't forget "random."

My kind of guy

oh, r36. So easy to blame your problems on others. You are being leap-frogged by immigrants who come here and spend more time trying and less time bitching.

No surprises here,,,as a college prof, I am always warned to post warnings about topics that might "trigger" a student. The poor snowflakes are so frightened and sometimes "literally" shaking. Imagine teaching some of the literature I read as an UNDERGRADUATE...Lolita, Moll Flanders, Last Exit to Brooklyn, My Secret Garden (rape fantasies!) , Huckleberry Finn (yes), My Secret Life. I cannot teach any of these today, or I would need trigger warnings on every chapter.

My neighbor is a college math professor and he talks about how he's responsible for the students getting their assignments turned in. Even though it's outlined in his syllabus and he announces the deadlines in lecture, he still has to email, call and text every individual student who has late assignments. HE is responsible for their work not being turned in. Like he's their nanny or their daddy. So fucking pathetic!

I'm a university professor, and while I see infantile behavior in men and women on social media (and I follow mostly gay men on Instagram), I find many young people with whom I interact to be very mature.

I have students who are veterans. They are men (and a few women) who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are to a person thoughtful, impressive, and hardly immature.

I'm 58. Yesterday I met with a guy who's 30. We connected through instagram. He is interested in having a sexual relationship with me. We met through Instagram and have been getting to know one another via FaceTime. Due to Covid, yesterday was our first face to face meeting. We have become friends through mutual interests. I'm not quite sure I want a sexual relationship with him, because I still haven't gotten past the 28 year age difference. But he is far from immature. But he -- and may young people I teach -- are not immature or age regressive at all.

[quote]Apparently, 'to adult' is a verb nowadays

So five years ago. Try to keep up, gramps

Oh, R66, do you know me? Because I don't think you do. I spoke in this thread about social structural patterns, not my biographical experience. Before you ignorantly hand out advice to people to "spend more time trying," maybe you should spend more time trying to work on your reading comprehension.

R67

You're supposedly a "college prof" in the humanities? Who also complains about triggering and snowflakes like a textbook alt-right conservative?

What department was unfortunate enough to have that low of hiring standards? Liberty University?

Ooze - two things can be right. There are societal structures and costs (housing, education, student loan burden) that have increased far beyond inflation that keeps younger people from reaching life milestones and 'growing up' in a more traditional sense.

And there is also truth to the whole 'being triggered' and hyper-sensitivity that is detrimental and can prevent growth.

It's not actually the millennials time (in general) to reach top positions at their workplaces, it's Xers time.

Xers will never get to those positions because of Boomers, and at my company, the Boomers who haven't retired yet are paying their kid's university tuition, helping them buy homes or renovate their homes, investing for their kids and grandkids. Once this cohort of "younger" Boomers leaves, there will be very few years for Xers left. Millennials will eventually reach those top positions occupied by boomers and many will inherit a ton from their parents.

I forgot to say that obviously some Boomers aren't eligible for retirement yet, so I'm not accusing all of them of being greedy. Plenty are still under 65 and can't afford retirement just yet.

R72 Yes.

Milestones are taking longer, and generations are putting less social pressures on themselves to meet them, because its a gradual 'hands up in the air' about it all. And this can mean, to extremes, an extended childhood and young adulthood.

And on the other hand, the increased and earlier pressures to even be financially independent - or stand out as starting to be emotionally and vocationally successful - pushes a lot of the newer younger (often Gen Z) to put on very go-getter personas. If they aren't necessarily getting the house and kids and popular car and etc etc by 25-30, they're at least going to try hard to advance in any job, save and spend better than any previous generation, work out their bodies and eat diets that would put most past athletes to shame, and social media market themselves incessantly. Not even so much in the narcissism of Millennials picking up the all new smartphone thing, but as a matter of course.

If there can't be as accessible economic stratification, at least earlier, then there will be a social stratification. Are you working hard and scoring goals (even sadly small ones for your age compared to previous gens), or an incel weeb loser? Are you slaying, or being slayed?

There's a big of Gen X (or at the time, aging boomers) 'greed is good' happening, but more for the personal sphere than overall. Youth are still socially and environmentally conscious. There is policy support for large overhauls and even revolutionary tax schemes that would make most boomers stunned. But personally? Make the hustle, and if you're not, then you're being a waste. There's an implicit understanding that hey, the Internet is here, there's always some little crap job you can pick up, so if you don't at least do that, you're nothing at all. Compare that to maybe more Millennial 'softness' on any and all of the disadvantaged. But this relative cutthroatness mixed with a general lack of opportunity and loud broadcasting of how much your generation has been missing out, can lead to huge anxieties and unprepared youth. Who then, at some point and reacting to some incident or issues, turtle up and not just seek nostalgia, but kind of give up and pretend they're always-children.

So you have 22 year olds today that aren't the previously expected transitioning into post-college adulthood, but instead many there that are either not just dropouts of school but dropouts of life (large rise in NEET), or those that already are getting hooked into relatively (except for higher levels like affording houses etc...) successful young adulthood and college is just their formality while they always have a job lined up, major goals being achieved, strict fitness, slick personal marketing no matter their actual profession or current job. With college being the extended high school, its increasingly being treated as such, with failures needing to be constantly propped up or else they're quickly gone, and successes swiftly jumping leaps and bounds ahead of their enrollment - sometimes partially because they're terrified that if they don't, they won't have a house of their own, nor debts paid off, until not just 30 but 35+.

(cont)

You'll find the most eagerly professional people in the current Gen Z cohort, and the most nihilistic fuckups. Compared to more of a norm of Millennials trying to be professional but their new, more empathetic version of it, or fucking up, but more because they're facing challenges too late and stressing out about it, not because they're actually a bad day away from suicide.

Gen Z, particularly in rural areas, are also being affected by circumstances like opioid use. Its a challenging thing to grow up with a good or alright parent that loses their job, gets drug addicted to the 'good' stuff, and falls apart in front of your eyes. It can help in pushing you over the edge in depression, or be the fuel to never fuck up like that ever. That sort of binary is strong in younger people today, in my opinion. I find its usually not as coldhearted/punky/physical as Gen X might be - softened by Millennial exposure - though a minority, typically male, are going outright fascist. We can just be glad so far that this is still a minority, and more often the losers. Its actually often the liberal or even more left of Gen Z, in cities or suburbs, that are hustling to success; they may not be as left as the leftest Millennials, but they say, go on to work hard and become a well paid programmer or developer, and retain many left wing viewpoints.

cont (final)

Though even smaller than the right wing radicals, there's left wing radicalization happening too. But its more easily mollified. But the leftest left youth today don't even bat an eye towards the concept of a communist revolution, where Millennials might couch their conditions for it, Gen X would be scared to speak of it, and Boomers would be scared of anyone else speaking of it.

There is, however, a boiling pot. So far, today's teens-20somethings still feel that if they work their asses off in crazy ways, they have a shot, even if that point of success (in their minds) is pushed further away than earlier generations. That's shitty but its not widely radicalizing. Its the point when that idea of success being unattainable, and it not even being possible to 'self-infantilize' yourself to isolate yourself from any emotional triggers - that's the scary point. We need to stop it from getting there, badly.

Excellent. Sounds like Gen Z will make perfect personnel/cannon fodder for the coming war.

GenX endured the same complaints, "why are adults watching cartoons, why are they collecting toys, why won't they grow up" etc. etc. Boomers got it as well, primarily as college students who dropped out for a few years or stayed in college "too long" because "they didn't want to grow up."

Every generation gets criticized for "not growing up" so it's hardly much of an accusation, these days.

[quote]But the leftest left youth today don't even bat an eye towards the concept of a communist revolution

They didn't in the 60s and 70s, either.

People get awfully worked up over things we've been through before. Until I see something to indicate there really WILL be a "communist revolution," I'm not concerned over young leftists in 2021, any more than I was in 1991.

Boomers and younger Silents were the first "spoiled" generations who had an extended youth, R79 - that's part of it.

A college professor who doesn't know what a comma is, R67? The mind reels.

Why on earth would anyone at university teach My Secret Life, anyway? It's one million words of poorly written slashfic, repetitive and hardly enlightening. It's nothing but "I stuck my main in her cunny" over and over again for thousands of pages.

Every single move since I entered college in 1979 was managed and supervised by me and my fiends (until about age 30) then professional movers. My younger (even as close in age as 3 years0 relatives have all been helped by their parents. I guess I could have done so as well, but it never even ocurred to me to ask, let alone want their help. I think they felt the same way. But just a few years later and it was the parent's responsibility to help organize and staff, and I don't know where this came from?

Oh dear, friends...

Today's 'young people' need to be shunned, to basically be ignored. So many of them want to be famous. Just look at their social media. Many don't work, yet are always posting photos of 'vacations'. Who the hell is bankrolling their lifestyles?! Their stupid parents, that's who.

By age 26 I managed an art department of 12 people. There is no excuse for today's young people to act like spoiled children.

Also, it seems so many want instant success, they don't appear to want to work their way up any sort of ladder. A friend's younger dizzy sister, thinks she's something special, that she should be famous. However she has no talent and majored in some subject which sure isn't going to garner her any kind of work, art history. Blame reality show bullshit for so many young people thinking they should be famous for doing absolutely nothing.

Most young people have college degrees, yet, so many of them expect their parents to support them well into their 30s and in some cases, especially with trust funders, way beyond that! Why work, when mummy & daddy are still supporting you?

I totally blame the parents for all these young people who are clearly in a state of arrested development.

Like all the generations before them, they have their own distinct likes, obsessions and interests.

Like all the generations before them, they will muddle through.

As far as some (not all) young people go - if they're so hard done by and can't afford homes etc...then why are the cookie cutter suburbs filled to the brim with millennials, their expensive SUVs, and their kids? I'm not disagreeing at all that it is harder these days, but it's not like younger generations haven't achieved any success today. New neighbourhoods aren't filled with Xers and boomers, they are filled with young families.

I know plenty of young people whose first home was one of those suburban cookie-cutter monstrosities. A couple of millennials I work with lived at home until they could afford to build their first home - which is an expensive undertaking- and their Boomer parents allowed it. Their homes may not be to my taste, but they are happy and doing well. No way would the people I'm thinking of buy a smaller, older home as a starter, rent an apartment, or even take public transit or drive a smaller, affordable vehicle.

Part of the difference seems to be that Xers were thrilled to get out of their parents' homes, even if it meant living in a shitty apartment or buying a tiny, older home to start as opposed to middle-class millennials who prefer to stay at home and then buy more expensive and newer homes.

^^ MARY!!

If a 22 year old feels like a cruel fate has been dealt to them because they don’t have financial independence with money in savings, a successful career, a happy, long-term relationship, plus homeownership on top of that, then I guess there really is no hope for that person. I think the first step is uncoupling their need for gratification and their need for instant.

That MARY!! was meant for R77.

R85 - how old are you? There's no way in hell a 26 year old would be in charge of an art department today. Boomers were given top jobs very early in their careers - which would be unthinkable today.

I wouldn't want a 26 year old in charge of an art department - and no, you weren't 'just that good'.

R 90, do interview Boomer women about that top job they got early in their career. And don't mind those glassy stares they give you.

What’s an “openly” young person? As opposed to one who is closeted?

I hate kids today! Because I don't have the self-awareness to realize that people said the same thing about my generation!

If it is a group of production artists, it is completely reasonable that a junior employee could be a manager. PA's suffer from the illusion that are actually creative and many of the more seasoned, accomplished artists really don't want to manage people.

So last month I was on the phone with a mother trying to schedule her baby for an event. The dates I gave her were rejected because, "she couldn't drive him that day". When I pointed out our sites were all accessible by public transportation, she gave an audible gasp and said, "he can't take the bus, he's NINETEEN!"

JFC, my father turned 19 on an aircraft carrier during WWII, my brother in law turned 19 in the jungles of Vietnam, but this snowflake can't take a bus across to a suburban location in broad daylight. I weep for our future. Luckily, I'll probably be dead before Generation Snowflake is in charge.

[quote] By age 26 I managed an art department of 12 people. There is no excuse for today's young people to act like spoiled children.

[quote] Also, it seems so many want instant success, they don't appear to want to work their way up any sort of ladder. A friend's younger dizzy sister, thinks she's something special, that she should be famous. However she has no talent and majored in some subject which sure isn't going to garner her any kind of work, art history. Blame reality show bullshit for so many young people thinking they should be famous for doing absolutely nothing.

Kind of weird that someone who was head of an art department would mock someone else who majored in art history.

An oldster who hardly knows what planet he's on says this--

[quote] Most young people have college degrees, yet,

When the Pew Research Center says this--

[quote] Among Millennials, around four-in-ten (39%) of those ages 25 to 37 have a bachelor’s degree or higher,

You got to love these guys who make up their own facts.

R36, declining opportunity like that enjoyed by the boomers who came of age just when deficit spending on the Vietnam War tanked the economy? Or the Ph.Ds in the 70s driving taxis because WWII gen kept their jobs FOREVER. A whole generation of qualified academics never got a fulltime job, much less tenure. Then Gen X came along and scooped up the jobs because they were just out of school, all shiny and attractive to colleges. And what about the death of unions, pensions, interest on savings, affordable houses? I finally got a house just to have 2008 take away my job and force me to sell in a shit market. Listen, instead of being divided, why don't all the generations agree that the economy needs to function for everyone, not just the elite?

sorry ^ ^ I meant R36

R98 - I don't recall any golden age where Gen X'ers were able to get plum jobs in academia. It was the exact opposite. A lot of the academics from the 50's and 60's stayed on excessively long.

There was a major shortage of academic jobs for Gen X. When I graduated in 1998 it was already considered a hopeless career aspiration for most disciplines.

R101 - it was that way in the early 90's too. Those with PhDs from top universities were forced to look at no-name schools in the middle of nowhere for employment. And, if you were lucky, you may have received tenure after many years there - forever stuck in a shit town with bad students. But that was if you were lucky - many did not move up.

I knew of several who labored through Asst. Professor to Associate Professor and then denied Professorship and had to start all over as Asst Prof at another university.

R67 I am not "supposedly"...I am. TRIGGER WARNING: And since when are liberals not allowed to point out snowflakes who require trigger warning are babies who need to grow up. Quite the snowflake yourself, there.

I agree, and my point is: it's always the worst of times as long as greed at the top means everyone else is scrambling at the bottom for whatever "trickles down." High corporate taxes and estate taxes would even things out, but the real revolution has to be people adhering to ethics--ethics say you don't refuse to leave your job because you want to suck more money out when you already are comfortable, ethics means you care about others as much as you care about your family--because everybody's "other" is somebody's "family." Maybe Biden can encourage a return to some kind of fairness both economically and morally.

hell, either I type too fast or think too slow, I meant to say ^ ^ I agree with R100.

+quietly minimises tablet browser playing old episodes of ‘Jackie Chan Adventures’* I don’t understand the question, and I won’t respond to it

I don't envy today's young people. I'm Gen X and I could afford my own apartment (no roommates) when I was 18, just by working entry-level jobs. Concerts and other entertainment were far cheaper.

But what I don't get is this self-induced state of childhood. When I was a kid, I was DYING to be an adult. They got to do all the fun things: late bedtimes, cocktail parties, swanky bars, and most of all not living in dreary suburbia if they didn't want to.

My Gen Z coworkers seem to hang out with their parents on the weekends. "They're my best friends," one of them told me. The last thing my early 20s friends ever would have done was hang out at their parents' house.

[quote]Kind of weird that someone who was head of an art department would mock someone else who majored in art history.

There is huge difference between a non-artist majoring in art history and a person with artistic ability who majors in the same subject and will, perhaps, move on to teach it or become a commercial artist.

Not all artists want to be famous with their art in galleries, yet, so many young people these days do want to be famous, but few have the talent or charisma to reach their delusional dreams.

Many young people seem to major in subjects they knew they couldn't easily get jobs in. Most of my friends work in creative fields, as graphic designers, illustrators, Creative Directors, Art Directors, stylists, fashion designers and photographers. I guess most of us were lucky to get our first breaks, then work our way up the ladder in the creative fields we studied. I've never worked in any other field but a creative one. My first job was as a photographer's assistant. I majored in graphic design and photography. I attended both an art high school and art college.

Even more bizarre are the young people who suddenly decide they want to be stylists, fashion designers or makeup artists, yet have absolutely no training in any of these fields.

The young woman I mentioned has no artistic ability or much of an interest in art. Not sure why she majored in art history.

R97, why such venom and snark, are you unemployed? Under-employed? Did I hit a nerve, are mummy & daddy still supporting you?

Yes, most of today's young people have college degrees, BAs and beyond. A younger cousin went to Oxford, he's a scientist. He's brilliant. He managed to find a job in his field.

Is mentioning that most young people have degrees not factual? WTF are you talking about? Even the dumbest young person somehow manages to get through college, when they should, perhaps, focus their energies elsewhere.

Not everyone should go to college. I'm all for young people attending trade schools, especially those who don't want careers in finance, law or tech. If these young people have no interest in college, what are they doing there? They are wasting time and money. Many should learn a trade where there are actual well paying jobs. The world will always need electricians, plumbers, builders etc.

Everyone has some sort of talent. That talent needs to be nurtured. A parent shouldn't force their child, especially one who has no interest in becoming a doctor, or lawyer, to waste time studying to become one.

We will always need plumbers, electricians, contractors, basically crafts people who can build and fix things. One of my friends is a very rich plumber, he probably makes much more money than someone with a BA.

Recently, I was talking to my local show repair guy, he's been in business over 40 years, he's been working in his late uncle's shop since he was a teen. He wants to retire. He's an expert crafts person. He can fix any type of shoe. What will happen when there's no one who wants to do these sorts of jobs? He worries about having no one to pass his business to, so do his customers. His business was left to him by his late uncle, his sons and nephews have no interest in shoe repair.

My point was, most young people have college degrees, they also have massive debt, yet most cannot even find decent jobs because they've majored in subjects they can't easily find jobs in or they don't have influential parents with connections. These are the absolute facts.

If I see one more bearded 41-yr. old on a scooter...

Two friends with adult, seniors and a sophomore in college, kids. They can't make their own sandwich or cook or do laundry or any chores around the house, etc.

Pathetic, really.

Social media made character flaws and bad behavior all okay. More than okay- to be applauded.

[quote]Kind of weird that someone who was head of an art department would mock someone else who majored in art history.

[quote]There is huge difference between a non-artist majoring in art history and a person with artistic ability who majors in the same subject and will, perhaps, move on to teach it or become a commercial artist. R108

What nonsense, R108. Art History is a discipline unto itself; it is not about artistic ability, it is not Art for non-artists, not drawing for those who can't draw.

Art History is an intellectual pursuit of making connections between a work of art and the rest of the world. Part history, part connoisseurship, more analysis and comparison and interpretation, its purpose is fundamental but not simple: to understand the essence of the thing and to understand it in different contexts. I've never met a good Art Historian who didn't have an amazing visual memory, whose wouldn't see some unattributed, unknown fragment of a painting and in it see the details of a brushstroke, or the intensity of a certain red against a certain blue, or some compositional quirk that didn't fire off a thousand connections in his or her head and who couldn't discuss the fragment with intelligence and insight and present some intriguing questions, all on some isolated piece of a canvas he or she had never before laid eyes upon.

Of course there are too many Art History majors relative Art History jobs. Traditionally it's been a discipline that attracted a more than fair number of people for whom landing a job with a fresh diploma in hand was not an urgent priority, or even as a sort of finishing school intended for no real purpose other than to fill young, bright heads with an area of expertise that gave them ample fodder for interesting conversation wherever they went in the world. But do a Google on some variation of: what is an Art History degree good for. Increasingly its skills, for example of understanding a problem from multiple disciples and perspectives and making connections to other things past and present, are seen as very useful in some some non-Art History fields and industries. The ability to look at a small stretch of canvas or an ancient coin and understand the world from that perspective, does have applications in that how many disciplines and fields require a view that can telescope inward and outward and equally sideways across continents.

And why would the Head of an Art Department mock Art History for its miserable job prospects? Even factoring in an advanced degree, the employment and compensation stats are not so miserable compared (apples to oranges) to Fine Arts and Commercial Arts it seems.

R113, you can prattle on about art history, it has nothing to do with my personal connection to a rather dumb young woman who absolutely chose the wrong major.

Again, this woman knows little about art, in fact, when I tried to discuss my fave graphic designer, the late Milton Glaser, with her, all I got was a blank stare. She wasn't even aware he designed the iconic 'I Love NY' logo.

The young woman I described, who chose art history as a major, is none of those things you are going on about. She sure would never be hired as an art critic for The New Yorker, The NY Times or New York magazine. She'll never be a curator at an art gallery let alone a museum, she won't write a book about a particular art period and so on. She cannot even discuss her fave artists.

This person is a dizzy young woman with no job prospects, a person who, it seems, possibly threw a dart into a list of college majors! Last I heard she was working at Best Buy.

Your 'knowledge' about art history reads like a text book, you are giving me a headache.

"Traditionally it's been a discipline that attracted a more than fair number of people for whom landing a job with a fresh diploma in hand was not an urgent priority, or even as a sort of finishing school intended for no real purpose other than to fill young, bright heads with an area of expertise that gave them ample fodder for interesting conversation wherever they went in the world."

Are you serious? Do you live in the real world? Finishing school? You sound like someone with a trust fund, am I right?

Having "ample fodder for interesting conversation", possibly at a NYC cocktail party filled with old money people, sure doesn't fill one's wallet. Most people need to earn a living!

Securing a decent job after four years of high school and possibly six or more years of college, sure is an urgent priority for many people.

Not everyone is a well heeled trust fund lounge lizard swanning around gallery openings and cocktail parties droning on to anyone who is willing to listen that they possess massive knowledge about art. Seems you are describing people who don't really need to earn a living.

As a ‘90s born Millennial, I feel very deeply ashamed about my relatively low level of education, my broken achievement drive, and my lack of career/patchy unimpressive work history. Even just thinking about it tanks my mood and self esteem, and causes me to hide from the world in many ways. It’s been this way for ten years; since the generalised pressure of academia/work success, combined with depression and unprocessed grief over family strife, and ASD social setbacks just got too much snapped my psyche.

So now at the age of 28, all I currently have on my resume is a BA from a midtier University (decent and respectable enough 1960s international school, but not prestige) and a string of low level cater-waiter/shopbottom jobs that have kept me on the breadline. While I am lucky enough to have travelled to several different continents in my life, and to have won a handful of national awards for creative writing, there’s only so far that will stretch. I have no niche skillset to speak of, can’t speak a second language, haven’t got a trust fund (or any financial help from anyone—my parents scrape by, and I don’t qualify for social security), and few connections. I take part-time jobs and random under the table work wherever I find it locally or online, but it only makes me feel worse.

Lately I’ve been trying to push through whatever is making it emotionally stressful, difficult and confusing for me to focus and retain for a career. Best guess so far is that my depressive and anxious feelings around this comes from being exploited in the workplace and in academia, as a formerly-high-achieving student with undiagnosed Asperger’s (that crippled me socially). I don’t have much faith or trust that I can find fulfilment or fair treatment society. How can I dissolve this block? Therapy is off the table right now, as I simply can’t afford it.

[quote] It's true you may deserve better but so does the Darfur orphan.

Are you sure about that? The grasping little shit spelled out ”ME ME ME!” in pebbles before a UN airdrop.

I hate when they're on my lawn too, OP

Jesus R115. It’s time you started acknowledging all that pushback shit is simply all in your head, otherwise you’ll still be doing it with massive regrets on your death bed. Zillions of people not lucky enough to even have a BA go out every day and create their own reality. Life is a game, and you need to start playing it to win! Clearly you DON’T see yourself as deserving. Methinks you’ve probably had a ton of shit put on you and it’s cracked your self esteem. But honey, there’s shits out there who aren’t worth ten of you who are creaming it. Why? Because they believe in themselves. And believe they deserve it all. So start believing it. You’ve won writing awards? Try PR. You can make very good money. And as you need to make up for lost time, you haven’t a moment to lose. Recognise yous is a typical problem. Working class kids rarely set their sights higher. Try it.

Oh and one thing more R115: its much easier to nurse regrets, but if you want a better life you’re going to have to bring focus and energy to the task. So whatever you decide is going to be your escape ladder, you’re going to really have to put your nose to the grindstone studying what they’re looking for; the modes of interaction; and cultivating people in the industry and seeking their help.

Well, well, well, here we go again with the latest "this generation!" Somehow we all have been manipulated like uncle Bob at a republic party gun show/Qanon meeting that there are massive differences in kids for various time periods in history. Instead of looking at the normal progression of a human through time, we like to lump that into a generational thing so we feel more comfortable about ourselves. Kids? They always throughout history have been jerks.

Remember your older brothers and sisters lounging around the house in the sixties then going to go smoke dope at the park? They are hanging on for dear life as a Facebook nutjob. They worked when they needed money, but were the same surly, lazy assholes that would march at the Anti-war rally and spout love for everyone then go get high or drunk and start fights.

Same people now, except they have the internet. Lazy, surly, and sitting in a Halo world, being assholes on the internet while Instagramming how they love animals while eating at Taco Bell.

Oh, the job thing. There are jobs for everyone. There ALWAYS have been jobs for anyone that wants one. My buddies fuckpal got an entry job at Amazon three years ago. Now he makes bank and has been promoted many times. Did not even finish high school.

The assholes that raise young people now are different, that I will give you. The majority are assholes that run the gamut from religious fuck/republic party mind-bending stupid to over-reaching nut bags that read the NYT about how the average Nazi lives and finds it a good read. But kids these days, nothing has changed, only the things they have at their disposal, and the ability to magnify the awfulness of their personalities. See social media for all examples.

If anything the pandemic has tight you, it should be that the vast majority of people are assholes. They can't be bothered to care about their fellow human because it involves a mask. Kids are that on steriods.

I work with college-age people. I'm not saying these are universal traits but here's what I see in the people I interact with. First off, they're gentle, thoughtful people who are starved for praise and, believe it or not, parenting--maybe the sort of parenting you would give a much younger child, which involves a lot of affirmations of unconditional acceptance. . They're also very fragile and have been educated to do things in small groups that I would ordinarily do on my own. Their college experience does not appear to involve books, extensive reading, research papers, the sort of basic memorization you do to create a timeline or historical framework, closed book tests or any of the things I would normally associate with rigor. They expect college to be a seamless extension of high school and to be entertained all the time. When they're asked to do something, they need an example of what the finished product should look like and step by step directions, like a recipe. Winging it is not an option.

i think something has happened to their attention span and organizational ability compared to that of previous generations, although some of them make up for it by using software.. They're ahistorical, and much less well-read than I was at that age but their knowledge of music and culture, superhero movies, anime, sitcoms and other forms of pop culture is far greater. Their sexual experience is far greater than mine was at that age and they are preoccupied with issues of gender identification like no generation before. They can lecture me on intersectionality but not identify a photo of Jimmy Carter or Eisenhower. Their colleges view them as clients and consumers and want very much to placate them, probably because they need the tuition.

They're virtually all children of divorce, possibly multiple divorces, The pandemic has thrown them for a loop, depriving them of the small group activity that's like oxygen to them. I can't imagine these people going to war, working in factories, having children of doing the things my grandparents or parents did at that age.

On the other hand, they're much more aware of college debt than millennials were and are training for soul-deadening jobs in marketing and supply-chain management. God love 'em, I hope things work out.

R121 good post. You’re right, the ones I’ve interacted with are sweet and earnest, but directionless. I do blame “society.”

R80 That's kind of what I was getting at. There's more significant, casual, leftward motion since millennials, but the leftest revolutionary left is still stiffled, even by the others on the left. They're still a smaller minority. The bigger concern for social stability is that rightest right, which seems to be synthesizing with the Republican party.

These 'earnest young folk' are very ripe for the picking for anyone bothering to give them guidance instead of scorn (see: OP).

I've noticed that many people under 25 or so seem to have no problem announcing to strangers (me) that they have an anxiety disorder. I always sympathize because my home was toxic and I've lived with anxiety forever, but these poor kids seem to think normal human anxiety is a disorder. I blame psychiatry for making them nervous about being human. On the other hand, the openness about sexuality means they won't spend their whole lives looking for some ideal that doesn't exist (looking at you, boomers, and I am one) or perpetuating stereotypes. Of course I'm talking about white kids (I live in a very white city) and mostly college educated. I wish them the best. Every generation builds on the last and will contribute something unique. I just hope they don't overmedicate themselves.

Normal human interaction terrorizes some of them, R124. Pre-covid, many under 25s would take to social media to express their outrage that someone on the bus sat next to them or dared to strike up a mundane conversation with them at Starbucks. They feel genuinely threatened by a stranger interacting with them in any fashion.

Just the other day in my city, there was a Facebook "warning" post written by a young woman who claimed a man followed her as she went for a walk. She said that as she walked along, a man appeared and walked behind her for a few blocks until they both reached a popular city park. In the post, she exclaimed how lucky she was that when she arrived at the park, the man began to jog and took off in a different direction - probably to intimidate another young, unaccompanied young woman, of course. The woman who made the post actually contacted the police, who told her that since the man didn't continue to stalk her or actually verbally/physically threaten her, there was nothing they could do. She still blamed the man and said that if he was simply just heading out for a run, he could have and should have crossed the street in order to be less intimidating.

Any 26 y/o in charge of an Art Department sounds positively insufferable

[quote]who are starved for praise

Surely that's the only thing they ever get! Talk about feeding a bottomless pit.

[quote]These 'earnest young folk' are very ripe for the picking

Ripe for the picking for any inane viral idea or demagogue. As we're seeing. With religion gone, they're desperate in something, but because they're ahistorical, they nothing to evaluate them against.

It doesn't bode well.

r121's post is good. I've noticed the difference between millennials, many of whom come to work and expect to be running the show in a year, and the next generation, which is far more tentative and fearful. They need more specific instruction, and if given that they can perform quite well. In general millennials at work preferred to be given a project, a deadline, and then be left alone to complete it.

Some very positive things about both generations: in general they consider someone being LGBT just another facet of life, and they all volunteer FAR more than my X generation did. In fact, if I was setting up a company and wanted to attract the best younger people, I'd probably offer some sort of PTO for volunteering.

[quote]Some very positive things about both generations: in general they consider someone being LGBT just another facet of life

I thought younger people were less accepting of gay people today? Huh.

Because they don't see movies about growing old gracefully or living a full life with wrinkles and responsibility.

They want to stay in high school forever because young people have the fun, love and know better and old people are boring and stupid and eventually stuffed away in centers.

Middle aged people are rarely depicted as having full, engaging lives so the message they embrace is stay young and cool forever!

[quote]and they all volunteer FAR more than my X generation did.

More than Gen X’s volunteering and working in HIV/AIDS?

[quote] I thought younger people were less accepting of gay people today?

I don't believe that for one second, poll or no poll. When I was in high school, there were still a lot of homophobic shitheads, and this was the late '90s.

[quote]I don't believe that for one second, poll or no poll.

Then I don’t know what to tell you. No sense in furthering the discussion then.

R134, you really think teens, as a collective whole, were less homophobic in the '80s/'90s (or before) than now?

Insufferable I'm-going-to-school-you Twitter twats come in all ages.

I didn’t say that R135. I posted a link about fewer young people supporting gay rights.

The provided link talks about LGBT acceptance, not specifically gay acceptance.

Oh okay.

[quote]Any 26 y/o in charge of an Art Department sounds positively insufferable

It depends what generation of young people you are referring to.

A 26 year old Art Director, or art department manager, from the past two generations of young people, would surely be insufferable, most of them are coddled spoiled brats. Right out of college, they would feel entitled, they would expect to be managing an art department or be an instant Art Director.

At my last job, the Creative Director hired a young woman right out of FIT, she was hired for one of the graphic design positions. She was barely there one month, yet she was trying to get the Art Director fired. That's the job she was aiming for.

The art department was in-house, it wasn't part of any major ad agency. This young woman wasn't suited for the job, she wanted to work for a high-end fashion oriented agency, yet she had no experience working anywhere. Her sense of entitlement was off the charts. Her actual talent was minimal. Wearing high-end designer clothing doesn't mean you possess talent or creativity.

Unlike past generations of young people, today's youth have little desire to work their way up the ladder. Most think they need to be applauded simply for showing up!

I'm 37 so on the Millennial/X cusp. It's my opinion that the sort of infantalising of younger people is brought on by all the generations and how they treat people under a certain age.

For example, I got married at 32. I've gotten looks of shock that I'm married and have been told repeatedly I was too young to settle down and marry. I now use the word partner instead to avoid snarky comments. I guess I should've waited until I was 50?

After marrying, my partner and I decided to move to a foreign country together. My mother expressed disappointment I didn't consult her before making this fully self-funded decision, like I was a 17-year-old minor.

In my late 20s-early 30s, I tried to break into a career field of interest that had mostly people 55+ involved in it. At events I was constantly called a "young person" and not taken at all seriously, even though I presented multiple times at conferences, I would be asked each time if it was my first time attending and told I looked so young. I was told I needed to grow up before I could get a job or make a living. When I saw people treating my friends who were about 40 in similar ways, I realised I had no chance of being taken seriously for decades and left to to do something else.

I don't mind if they wear cute pajamas at home. That's irrelevant to me.

But WOW, this year has revealed how immature and needy a lot of Millennials are. (I'm 42.) I didn't realize there is such a distinct generational difference until the pandemic.

Some of my younger coworkers have worked their asses off and have been totally reasonable and what I would consider normal. Four or five of them treat their boss and the CEO of my organization like Daddy, and have been whining and making unreasonable demands all year.

By whining, I mean for example that they have complained routinely about their mental health and needing extra time off to 'process' what is happening, complain nearly incessantly and yet insist on weekly virtual 'happy hours' that they've turned into misery hours. Our office closed last March during the same week as the federal government and those of most people I know, and one Millennial said that the office was 'trying to kill my grandparents' and another complained to HR last summer that 'management is literally trying to kill us' because the office didn't close sooner back in March...?!

And yet both of these Millennials, who claimed to have been terrified of the virus, proudly boasted that they participated in protests last summer with about half a million people in close proximity. I challenged one on the hypocrisy of claiming her boss tried to murder her by having her come into an office where everyone has their own office and is spread out at the very beginning of a pandemic and then riding the subway to protest with a huge crowd at the height of the pandemic, and her answer was "it was safe. Some things are worth it."

By unreasonable demands, I mean that, for example, this same coworker insisted all year that the execs set a date for our return to the office 'so that I can have mental time to prepare.' But no one had a specific date. The execs were waiting for the federal government or the state to set a return date, and anyone who is alive knows that the dates when general non-essential offices would reopen never materialized. Yet my coworker developed a coalition of Millennial coworkers and they became irate and demanded that a date be given. It was really weird. So the bosses and HR created a policy, including an arbitrary date noting that it could change, and the Millennials were satisfied for a while. As the date approached, they began freaking out and asking if we were going to be forced to return on that date. It made no sense at all. And then after all that, the main instigator told her boss she had earned a promotion by showing leadership all year.

I think a lot has to do with many parents, who overly protected their kids. Their child couldn't do any wrong...even when teachers confronted these parents because their "angel" child acted up or did something wrong, or was having trouble with their studies. Teachers are wary now, because the child is believed and not the teacher. Also...the "everyone is a winner, there are no losers"... our daughters are princesses and our sons are princes mentality in which these kids were brought up, has left them unprepared for the real world when they grew up. I think that's why you see so many shooters in their 20s, mostly young men...because they were reprimanded at work (last week a 21 years old man shot up his co workers where he worked)...or are not getting laid and have no game with women...incels. They are trapped in that immature mind set when they're not getting their own way and are have having very dangerous tantrums, which people die. Too many parents want to be their kids friend, and don't want to discipline them. Peter Pan in the extreme for many. Also, many really terrible examples lately with our "leadership", and how they're getting away with literal murder, theft, scams...things that no one should be able to get away with.

Millennials need to do better with the word 'literal.'

"Literal murder" involves taking a life, and it has no place in an office to say "I don't agree with what my boss made me do."

R141 fat mood.

Because I was late to physically ‘bloom’ and kept sheltered by my folks, all through highschool I looked and came across like I was 13 years old, and was treated as such. Random strangers have always guessed that I’m some five or several years younger than I actually am, and I have lost out on opportunities because people assume I’m immature. In reality I’m pushing 30 and I’ve become a responsible hardworking and well-informed person, who doesn’t querously and constantly complain as the stereotypes suggest. Doesn’t seem to matter though, as everyone I meet aged forty or over treats me like a schoolkid.

Well...trump groomed many people and incited murder and violence...the insurrection of the US Capitol. So..though he didn't actually (or literally) murder anyone (that we know of yet), I feel that he did incite and encourage the mayhem that ended with five people dead. I'm a boomer...not a millennial, btw.

I would read through but when I scrolled the paragraphs-long posts alerted me that the thread has been taken over by defensive millennial Fraus having cathartic moments.

What do you expect from the children of boomers?

You're not Gen X dear, you're Gen Y.

[quote] Millennials need to do better with the word 'literal.'

Language changes over time. In the case of “literal,” it now means the opposite of what it used to mean.

I'd love to see more shaming of them, to be honest. Millennials are 40 now and that's way too old to be so emotionally needy. It's crazy.

[quote]I would read through but when I scrolled the paragraphs-long posts alerted me that the thread has been taken over by defensive millennial Fraus having cathartic moments.

Because you have a short attention span, you assume "defensive millennial fraus" are taking over the thread? Seriously? Honestly, just STFU.

Over the past few years, DL has become so damn annoying.

Blaming 'fraus' for your own lack of concentration is absolutely ridiculous.

R151 huh? I just turned 28, and I’m a Millennial. The youngest/last of the Millennials (sometimes called Zillennials) are currently aged 25.

Not saying that’s an excuse for needy or immature behaviour—the cut off for that is one’s early 20s—but the reality is that at the time of writing many Millennials are still below 40 and 30 years old. It’s just that there are no longer any Millennial who are teens or College-aged.

Still trying to guess what R146's observations have to do with anything in the thread.

r46 was literally referring to another post

There are no xennials or zillennials. Accept your age. You’re Gen X or Millennial. Grow up!

R144 Millennials didn't start that. James Joyce and F. Scott Fitzgerald used "literally" in a way to means "figuratively" multiple times.

OP, I also use it as a verb. I had a miserable childhood, so having to be an adult started early for me without the emotional maturity. Now that I am almost the same age as you, I feel like I still need to experience being 14 years old- ON MY OWN TERMS. I have a job that I do well, a home and car that I own. I don't have kids, so it's not like anyone around me will suffer. All in all it's nice not to have anyone else to be responsible for and the emotional maturity to enjoy freedom.

Maybe we don't provide them the tools they really need to enable them to project a decent adulthood.

So life continues to be shit but people continue to breed?

Stop the misery people and stop reproducing.

Having children won't make you happier or content - you're just creating another sentient life to suffer.

One shouldn't have to seek clarification when someone says 'literally' - do you mean 'figuratively' or 'literally'.

Rather than people being told they are using the word 'literally' wrong and should be using 'figuratively' - we indulge them, rather than correct them and talk about how language evolves. We let people say 'hyper-bowl' instead of pronouncing 'hyperbole' properly - rather than suggest they are wrong. It's more infantilisation.

Yes language evolves, 'cool' can refer to temperature as well as something that is 'calm' - but the multiple uses of the word cool don't negate each other, and context clarifies.

R159 Maybe we don't provide them the tools they really need to enable them to project a decent adulthood.

The truth is that we grow from stressful experiences like working your way through school or having demanding teachers or studying for professional licensing exams or caring for a sick relative. Too much stress is destructive but so is too little.

In literature or conversation over the years, using literally in its proper context usually still implies a greater significance because what you are saying is not an overstatement.

So it evolved to “I’m really serious”. So what? Whenever I see somebody correct someone else in public, I can’t think but “how crass”. The exception would be when someone is struggling with a pronunciation and can’t get past it. If they pronounce it wrong and move on, I keep my mouth shut.