What's the point of having kids?

Being remembered after you died. Aka making sure you leave a legacy behind. Some prefer that over killing someone famous.

Gurl.

Some people do it out of love.

I used to think there was something wrong with me because I never wanted any.

There is no guarantee that your offspring will be attentive to your needs as you grow older. Fortunately, I realized that early on.

it is the joy and love that they bring into your life. You don't realize you don't have it until you have kids. Read that story about the guy that found the baby in the subway. He said he didn't know he could have such love. I think it is something that no one can really tell you and something that you have to experience.

Many reasons, some of us even adopt. I mean, not legally or anything, and sometimes the father is still alive, and sometimes the kid still lives with him off and on, but it still counts.

R5 I think that's true. I also think that people have other ways of giving, caring and loving that don't include children, and they are equally strong.

R5 Maybe for some people, but there are whole pages of I regret having children even though I love them and pages of mothers regretting having them. Parents regretting the loss of their lives before they had kids.

A benefit could be that they are a potential donor match for if/when you need spare parts?

Because this is the first thought I had when I read this question, maybe it’s a good thing I never had kids.

It's the closest thing you're going to get to immortality, OP.

I'm childless, but I often think people have a hard time justifying their existence without having kids.

Sometimes there is that. And it fucks up the kids.

im comfortably kid-less at 63. ZERO regret

God wants us to to provide the world with more Christians.

Some people have maternal or paternal instincts which they’d be better off ignoring. Others have an accident and decide to keep it. I know like four people who had kids and are actually good parents who make raising their child their first priority. Those are the people who Waited until their thirties and actually planned and discussed parenting with their partners before having kids. Those are the only people who should be having kids these days. It’s really selfish if you can’t afford them or don’t want to give them adequate time.

R3, I never thought there was something wrong with me because I never wanted any.

I know so many parents who destroyed their children only having had them because of social pressure.

Having children is the most monstrous selfish act imaginable. Don't do it!!

No, it's not necessarily R17.

It is more often than not R18. Isn't there enough misery and agony in the world ? You really want more?!!

pull up, gurl

Stupidity

Societal expectations

Social status

Pro-natalist religious delusion

Indifference to environmental sustainability

The narcissism of a desire for a 'mini-me'

A craving for control and ownership over another being who is to helpless to reject them

"it is the joy and love that they bring into your life. You don't realize you don't have it until you have kids."

Gag. And I call total bullshit on this. Maybe YOU needed a clingy, totally dependent, demanding human to make you feel love and joy but a lot of us have that without having kids. Whenever I think about how different my life would have been if I had kids, the more I'm glad I never had the desire to have them. The world is over populated. The less kids, the better.

If you don’t want kids, just remember this pearl of wisdom Nonna used to tell us:

“Up the bum, no babies.”

Oh, I forgot a couple:

Wanting to be able to claim credit for the achievements of others

And, in agricultural families, free labor that's unable to quit regardless of working conditions.

Arrogance. It is the idea that your genetic line is so special that it must continue to infest the earth for subsequent generations.

Instagram Content. Please refer to NPH on said app.

you bitches are way too hostile

who's gonna make the gaylings?

It infuriates me when middle-aged Karens (mostly family and co-workers), think it's ok to say "Why don't you and your husband adopt?" As if there's no possible way we wouldn't ever want to have kids. I laugh it off and say, "maybe one day". We often joke that one of the consolation prizes for being gay is NO KIDS.

R28

I'm pretty sure that the heterosexuals who see this thread won't give a flying fuck what we think any more than they ever have. So, they'll keep making gaylings.

And parental abuse, neglect, and abandonment are extremely common experiences for non-heterosexual people, which why is why we make up a wildly disproportionate percentage of people without homes. So, I wouldn't call this "way too hostile". I would call it 'keeping it real'.

R23 said it perfectly! Bravo! My thoughts exactly.

My mom told me that the reason she wanted a baby was because she was so in love with my dad she wanted to make a human being with his blood. It's falling in love with someone to the point of thinking they are so amazing that having a baby would be the best. I thought about that over the years...never really wanted kids though I do love babies as I am a great, goofy uncle. When I think of what my mom said, I often agree that had it been possible to have a baby with my late partner, having a living link to him would have been a beautiful thing.

Most people had kids simply because "that's what people do"...and they had intense pressure from their parents (who wanted grandbabies), and their friends, neighbors, and coworkers.

Now, it seems that a lot of straight people are embracing the childfree lifestyle, while a lot of gays/lesbians are making up for the deficit by using surrogates and sperm donors.

whatever lifts your skirt

leave it at that and don't be so damn judgmental

R32

That whole motivation is still self-centered. It's about the parent trying to duplicate some of the emotional benefit they get out of their partner.

It’s about creating a best friend. I can’t imagine not having my daughter in my life. Who would I shop with, go see Eat, Pray, Love with? Who would I brunch with, pick out Homecumming and prom dresses with, Netflix and chill with? Who would I call and text nonstop with? Who would I gossip with, binge rom coms with, squee over BTS with? Girlfriends come and go but your friendship with your child is forever.

Survival of the species. Isn’t that the point of reproduction for all living things (plants included)?

Honestly, for some kids... it's a way of providing themselves with a social life. No, really! For some people, they aren't in any sort of society, they don't have close friends, the only people they open up to are family members, so having children and grandchildren and nieces and nephews and great-nieces and cousins etc., gives them the only social life they're willing to seek out or accept.

This is true for some entire cultures, there are family-centric cultures where yes, your social life is centered around gatherings of the extended family. Your closes same-age friends are cousins (you generally have plenty of cousins to choose from in these cultures), the parties you go to are family parties, and your spare time is spent celebrating birthdays and weddings and going to sickbeds or funerals and so on. That's normal life in much of the world, and believe me the social pressure to marry and breed in those families is more intense than your grandchild-desiring mother can only dream of.

Hoping R36 is a joke post. Otherwise someone gave birth to a codependent partner.

R37

That makes sense for species that aren't capable of higher order cognition.

Humans are actually biologically capable of realizing that over-population is a threat to the survival of the species. We require willful ignorance in order to overlook that, which is a moral choice.

If children are such a joy, why do most parents try to pawn them on any loser, just so they can go on a date night or to a lame party. And then when they're older, they can't wait to get them out of the house.

R38, that happens here in the US too. Lots of straight introverts manage to get married somehow. Then they have kids and raise the kids to entertain them and eventually be their adult friends.

I've been thinking about kids recently, I'm 2 years away from 30 and all through my late teens and for the majority of my 20s I swore I would never have kids, but I've been starting reevaluate this, I'm now in the stage that I've accepted I'll be old one day and that I will need help. I can't rely on some care assistant, for as many that are kind and caring there are the evil one's that will beat you for looking at them wrong. I couldnt even just have the one kid, I'd have to have a few to make sure one of them is kind enough by nature to take care of me once I'm over the hill.

I just got to get my shit together by the time I'm 40, make sure I've got enough money for 4 little shits and do away with my 40s and 50s taking care of them and then flipping the program in my 70s.

R42

Yes, the key underlying theme in many cases is creating a being who is obligated and helpless to resist.

The desire for another human being who can never reject them (or at least, it's exceedingly difficult to).

Unlike adults, they slow-roast quickly and pair with most any wine.

"I can't rely on some care assistant, for as many that are kind and caring there are the evil one's that will beat you for looking at them wrong."

R43, the same is true of biological children. Some adult children will give up their lives to change your diapers, others will grow up to be methheads who'll rob you blind when you weaken with age, and everything in between. One of the great delusions of parenthood is that you get to pick what kind of adult your child will be, or shape the child into what you want them to be, and that's not how it works in real life.

Greater social security payments.

I have the feeling R43 is trolling. But some people actually do have a kid as a retirement plan.

R43

I really hope you're joking... because that is a sick, twisted motivation for having children, lol

I am a lesbian, and I will have kids at 50. By then, my eggs will be too old. So I will buy a donor egg. Then I will buy some donor sperm. Then I will rent a surrogate. It won't be my kid in any way, but it's easier than adopting.

R43 I'm completely aware of that, that's why I plan on having 4 of them. I'm not going to treat them horribly, I'll be a good parent and I'll love them but I'll always be aware that one of them will be my retirement plan.

And everyone else can act shocked, but why else would anyone want to bring a child into the world now? If it's out of pure love then you wouldn't have the kid, because the world they will live in is going to be a harsh and horrible one, much worse than it is now.

If anyone is against having kids because of overpopulation then why don't you just commit suicide? You'd be doing your part to control the threat. Honestly the amount of sociopaths in this thread who won't take any answer as an acceptable reason is obvious -just because gay people can't have kids on their own doesn't mean the rest of the world has to be so miserable. I mean, you do realize that if people didn't have kids you wouldn't be alive?

[quote] It infuriates me when middle-aged Karens (mostly family and co-workers), think it's ok to say "Why don't you and your husband adopt?" As if there's no possible way we wouldn't ever want to have kids. I laugh it off and say, "maybe one day". We often joke that one of the consolation prizes for being gay is NO KIDS.

You can say: “Neither of us want to have kids. We’re happy without kids.” I think you’d feel less infuriated.

R43 / R51, if you homeschool them, then they won't be able to get into college and get good jobs. Then they'll have no choice to get knocked up and live near you (instead of moving away). If you keep them dependent on you, you increase the chances of them looking after you. Then you can get away with having just two instead of four.

R50, why don’t you just freeze your eggs now?

[quote] It won't be my kid in any way, but it's easier than adopting.

No, NEVER adopt, ever. Surrogacy would be way better. We adopted a girl from Russia and she tried to seduce my husband.

Are you serious R55

It's so ingrained in the breeder mentality. I can't even count how many times a breeder at work asks me if I want/wanted children.

R56, Yes! Don’t ever adopt from Russia. I’m warning you now. She was a lot older than she presented.

R54 I'd want them to have their own lives, I'd never, ever homeschool them. Homeschool kids are always strange, even as adults the lack of socialising as kids fucks them up enough to make them seem like they're on the spectrum. I wouldn't want them to depend on me either, I've been extremely independent from a young age, my mother was the same and I think it's probably a genetic trait, so I would expect my kids to he similar.

R57 The worst is when they make it seem like it's the hardest job in the world, like some guy checking for IEDs in some warzone is thinking "thank God I'm doing this, instead of being in a nice house taking care of some kids".

In Canada the government gives you money and tax breaks for breeding. Disgusting.

for the ones thinking having kids is a retirement plan, think again. My parents had four kids. They treated us like shit and now that they are both in bad health, none of us wants to help them. Not a single one of us. My dad keeps hinting he needs money after never paying child support during the divorce and so, even though most of us make good money, we aren't offering him any. His favorite thing to say is, "I don't want to be a burden on you kids" and all of us laugh at his stupid ass because 1. he's married to a useless woman who is a total cunt so she can take care of him and 2. he's not going to be a burden because none of us will let him.

My mom is the same. She's showing signs of dementia, but she's still married to the alcoholic asshole she picked after she divorced my dad. He calls her stupid on a daily basis and it used to make me mad, but after a while I realized he was right. She let him kick all her kids out onto the street so she can fuck off when and if she needs help. So having kids is not a guarantee that anyone will be around to take care of you when you are old. In fact, that my parents even suggest this infuriates me because neither one of them could be bothered to be decent parents.

Some people love caring for a small creature who loves them back, but that’s why I adopted dogs.

The worst are the people who just “happen” to get knocked up repeatedly then blame their kids for how unfulfilling their life has been. Like bitch maybe you should have learned about birth control!

To keep the species from going extinct.

R65 I mean the current theory is the human male sperm count is dropping, a mixture of pollution and high stress is causing it. So unless we fix both of those problems, and soonish, we as a species are done outside of artificial means.

I want humans to go extinct and we all should. Doing it by not continuing to breed recklessly would be a peaceful way.

R67 You ever seen children of men? Wasn't peaceful. If anyone thought covid was bad in causing a mass existential crises, then the slow realisation that humans are unable to breed will be something I hope I'm not around for.

r52, are you really that obtuse that you don't see a difference between choosing not to have children vs. committing sucide? Really? One was a decision done by SOMEONE ELSE in THE PAST. The other is a decision made by ME NOW. Huge difference.

Both my parents HATED being parents. By their own admission, they never enjoyed being around us until we were adults.

My friend was recently told by her mother that she was a "make up child"; apparently her dad cheated on her mom with some co-worker. They were thinking about splitting up but then they decided to have another kid, who would bring them closer once again. Apparently it did the job because they're still together almost three decades later. I just have no idea why the woman decided to reveal that to my friend because it made her feel a bit weird.

It is something that makes you realize your not the center of the world. It makes you selfless and not selfish.

*you are

[quote] It is something that makes you realize your not the center of the world. It makes you selfless and not selfish.

Yeah, but it makes you think YOUR KIDS are the center of the world which is just as selfish.

R72

Right... because being a parent magically transforms selfish people into selfless people?

Those are some Pollyanna, Seventh Heaven, Hallmark channel-style rose-colored glasses you're wearing.

Parents owned slaves. Nazis were parents. If parenthood were so wondrously transformative, the world wouldn't be the massive cesspool of suffering, cruelty, and exploitation that it is.

"It is something that makes you realize your not the center of the world. It makes you selfless and not selfish."

This is the other bullshit line besides 'giving your life meaning" that the breeders love to trot out whenever they feel they are being attacked for their decision to bring another mouth to feed onto this resources starved planet No, having kids does not make ANYONE who was selfish or self absorbed suddenly not be that way. And fuck you for thinking that anyone without kids is self absorbed. A large majority of the people who choose to not have kids do so because they aren't selfish pricks who need some creature to love them unconditionally to give them meaning. It's the one's who have the kids despite knowing how overpopulation is killing this planet who are the selfish assholes.

Because those floor ain't gonna scrub themselves!!

Selfish people don't stop being selfish when they have kids. They'll cut a bitch to grab the last toy during a Black Friday sale. They'll buy up all the toilet paper during a pandemic. And worst of all, they'll come to work late and sneak out early "because of my kids", and they will expect everyone else to pick up their slack.

Oh, I know! Extra organs for when yours start to fail.

Not much point in having kids, really. Lots of work, lots of money - for what. That perhaps they will be there for you in your old age. Not a good risk reward ratio if you ask me. I say this as a Mother of 3 and grandmother of four. Get a pet if you are so inclined. I personally do not understand people who have huge dogs with huge vet and grooming bills plus the utter pleasure of walking the beasts and watching them eat your shoes. Young people - carefully analyse what you want from life before hopping into a marriage. I've had two and it just isn't worth the aggravation. Enrich your life to your tastes and savor your days doing what you damn well please, not catering to a spouse and kids.

I don't know why anyone in America who isn't making 200k or more a year would want kids. The cost of daycare and private schools (if you want it) is insane. It's like your paying college tuition years before you even attend college. Why would anyone want to spend that kind of money? And I would feel terrible having kids at a time when it feels like the world is destroying itself.

My uncle had three kids. One died age 25. The other two became drug addicts. In his 70s, my uncle couldn't retire because his two grown kids were always begging him for money. When he became ill and was given a few weeks to live, neither came to visit him in the hospital. And each was within a four-hour drive. They were nice enough to give him a phone call, though. And then they wanted to sue his widow for the money she inherited (which wasn't much at all).

I never wanted to create a life to add to this mess of humanity When I turn 50, If I'm making 6 figures, I will adopt a kid who's already stuck on this planet. I'll adopt an age-appropriate one, maybe ten years old or so.

That's good of you, R83, I'm over 5o and earning that much and I wouldn't dream of it! But I wasn't cut out to be a parent, and I've known that since I was a small child. I mean, like at age five I was saying I never wanted kids of my own, and that's never changed. I help other humans for a living and have taken in a series of stray kittens to satisfy my need for a sweet little thing to cuddle, that's the life I was meant to have.

But of course I've seen a million other humans breed, and the one thing that about 99% of them have in common is that they're extremely unrealistic about how parenting is going to be like and how their children are going to turn out. Sometimes I wonder if there's a hormonal basis for that, there's something very deep in our DNA that wants us to breed and pass on genes, and I really think that affects the human brain. Being unrealistic about raising kids is just so incredibly common it's there might be more to it than just random human foolishness.

I was told by a woman once that they have children so they'll have someone to love them. That's a fucked up reason as far as I'm concerned.

A now former friend got it into his head that he wanted to adopt kids. He didn't think it would be possible for a single gay man to adopt, so he moved to another city, dropped all his gay friends and any straight friends he was out to. He began attending an evangelical church. Two adopted kids later, he's a closeted, single and celibate father. Let's hope the brats were worth it.

R1 what does it matter if you’re remembered after your death. You’re dead. Better to do what you want to do for your legacy and don’t give it another thought.

Ego.

The sad truth is that the people least likely to give a child a decent chance at life are the ones who breed like mice.

R84, I completely agree and can relate to your entire post.

[quote]The narcissism of a desire for a 'mini-me'

There's that. For most people it may be the one thing/s they create in life that they are more or less in control of. Few people start successful companies, make a mark in educating students in some subject, write a published book, paint a painting shown in a proper gallery, write or perform a piece of music to acclaim, patent some life- ir industry-changing patente, leave a political legacy, or any kind of legacy in any sphere...yet a child is purely theirs, however unexceptional.

An unexpected pregnancy becomes a "hey, what if we do this? Make something no one else can duplicate exactly."

Fifty years ago, Ann Landers conducted a poll among her readers who were parents of adult children, asking if they would have still had their children knowing how they turned out.

A whopping 70% responded "No", citing disappointment, heartbreak, neglect and even abandonment by them as reasons why.

R91 Wouldn't those adult children be boomers? If my child had turned out to be as selfish and dumb as a boomer, I'd probably have said no.

Serious question though I admit the Matt Nestor drama has something to do with it. Can I adopt an adult?

For some people, I swear it's because it's the only way they ever hope to have anyone look up to them.

Of course, these people never count on getting teenagers...

Not all children are "planned".

"My mom told me that the reason she wanted a baby was because she was so in love with my dad she wanted to make a human being with his blood. It's falling in love with someone to the point of thinking they are so amazing that having a baby would be the best."

I totally understand that, R32. If it were possible for two men to father a child together naturally, I would have been tempted with my ex; he was the most handsome, intelligent, and fascinating creature in the world to me at one time. I also see the desire to create a living embodiment of the love you share with another person.

The point of me having a kid is that my husband and I wanted to be fathers. Some men desire this and others don't. We did and parenting is pretty much what we expected. The surprise was in watching my husband be such a great dad that it made me love him on a whole other level.

Beats me I’ve never been that bored in my entire lifez

Once upon a time, it was an almost foolproof way of holding on to a man who didn't want you.

didn't read through the entire thread (so flame away, everyone) but the obvious choice is to perpetuate the species. duh.

Foregoing brats is one of the things the breeders of my generation are actually doing well. I'll occasionally see news pieces asking "why aren't millennials having kids?"

No. I think the better question is why did you decide to have kids? Post-birth controll pill, why would you possibly do that to yourself?

Again, r101, so we as a species survive. fucking hell, what don't you understand. if we all stop breeding, we all stop BEING. dumbass.

R102, you type bitter. Like a stupid frau who probably pumped out a crotchdropping, regrets it, and thinks she deserves some participation trophy for it.

whatever, 103. you clearly don't understand or are nihilistic and prefer that the entire human race cease to exist. i have no bitterness except to wonder how we will all keep living on without having children. please, let us know what your master plan is to keep the human race in existence without "breeding." i'm happy to listen to your plan.

whatever, r103. you clearly don't understand or are nihilistic and prefer that the entire human race cease to exist. i have no bitterness except to wonder how we will all keep living on without having children. please, let us know what your master plan is to keep the human race in existence without "breeding." i'm happy to listen to your plan.

R103: It took over two million years for human population to reach one billion. In the 200 years since, the population has reached 7.8 billion.

Your contributions, however altruistic, were not really necessary for the perpetuation of the species. Hopefully you didn't create too many miniatures of yourself but many something the opposite of pig-headed stubborn, stupid, and a bossy bitch.

r104, the world would be better off if LESS people had kids. That doesn't mean ridding the planet of all kids, jesus chirst. Are you really that obtuse? The species will always go on, but in this day and age to seriously consider bringing a kid into the world makes zero sense for most of the people who have them. I mean, look at these fucking huge ass families like the Duggars. The Earth cannot bear the burden of so many mouths to feed. I know a lot of people from Catholic families who have 8 or 9 siblings and so those 8 or 9 siblings go on to have as many kids and so on and the cycle never ends. It's past time for that shit to end.

R102 Not having kids won’t make me cease to exist. I’m still here. And as for the human race in general, I would have no problem knowing it was dying out.

Frankly, I don’t feel society is worthy of my offspring.

R102, are you Catholic? Please tell DL about yourself and your fruitful family.

R103, do you love the fact that the feral cats in my mom's neighborhood keep breeding and multiplying, leading to disease, fighting, starving among them? Gotta keep the species going, though.

Those poor cats

The TNR movement is growing.

Some people just want to have kids. They always knew that they wanted kids and think it's a normal thing to do. My husband and I both knew we wanted kids, and we were lucky to get what we wanted. We were in our mid to late 30's and we didn't care about giving up our free time. We don't have a lot of money but live in an expensive state where the schools are generally good, so we don't have to send them to private schools. We try to teach our kids to be good people. That's what it is for a lot of people. You just always knew it was something you wanted to do.

We were in talking with my mom a few weeks ago, about someone who should have had more than one kid (the friend with the trans kid who is in his 20's and no longer speaks to her). My mom said it was selfish not to want kids. I guess I have heard her say that before but was still kind of surprised because people on this message board feel so much the opposite way. But my mom did give up a lot of herself to have kids.

Obviously, I agree that some people have too many kids. Those fanatics on tv are not good people. Also, there is a problem with poorer countries and people there having more kids than the countries can sustain or handle. Now that child mortality isn't so bad around the world (which is a good thing), someone needs to convince those populations to use birth control.

[quote]Being remembered after you died.

Egotism - most will anyway be totally forgotten in a generation or two anyway.

[quote]It's the closest thing you're going to get to immortality

Egotism x 1 million, because genius by definition is vanishingly rare.

[quote]I mean, you do realize that if people didn't have kids you wouldn't be alive?

If people didn't have kids I'd still be alive, but if my parents hadn't had me I wouldn't know it.

[quote]but the obvious choice is to perpetuate the species

Unlikely that people make that the main reason for procreating. 'Darling, we really need to do our bit for the population figures. Where might homo sapiens be without us?'

[quote]if we all stop breeding, we all stop BEING

Stopping breeding doesn't broadly seem to be a trend. If or when it becomes so it won't be beyond the wit of man to introduce incentives to fuck more teeming millions on to the planet.

[quote]Not having kids won’t make me cease to exist. I’m still here.

Good kids and brat kids

I've seen them all

I'm still here

"please, let us know what your master plan is to keep the human race in existence without "breeding." i'm happy to listen to your plan."

How about my plan, where only the people who are sane, kind, and functional have kids? That way, the species would continue, and since only a minority of the human race are sane, kind, and functional, the overpopulation issue is solved and the environment is saved! And the reduced human population has less poverty, mental illness, and general assholery!

Of course I include myself in the list of people, and not just because I don't like children and never wanted them for a minute. No, in my family the history of mental illness and abuse goes back generation after generation, and it's impacted my life and that of my generation, and if I could have talked my siblings out of breeding I would have.

So you wanted your nephews and nieces to never exist. Erase them from existence. They’ll love hearing that. What a great uncle.

Out of four siblings, only one of us had kids and he only had two. They are both now saddled with the depression and obesity that is so prevalent in our family and they are young.

Some genes shouldn't be passed on. I love those kids, but honestly I feel for them because I know what it's like living with those two issues. I see crazy ass people squirting out crazy ass kids all the time and honestly it's not a good thing. And I resent that my taxes must go to raise children that I never wanted. Society rewards the breeders. Fuck that noise.

Continuation of the human race, Op? Did I win?

When I was in high school, four girls accused a male teacher of sexual assaults. During the investigation, the girls admitted they made it all up in collusion with each other because the teacher was tough and took no shit from students. It didn't matter when it was announced that it was all lies. By that time the teacher's career and life was in ruins. It was almost two decades ago and to this day many people still think where there was artificial smoke, there had to be real fire. The teacher never taught again and became an archivist for some midwest museum in the middle of fucking nowhere.

I decided right then when it was made known the girls lied that I would never ever have kids. No way was I going to let some rebellious kid destroy me because I grounded them or took away their phone as punishment.

"So you wanted your nephews and nieces to never exist. Erase them from existence. "

R118, there are enough suicides and early deaths from substance abuse in my family tree that my two nephews have been been born with a good chance that they'll erase themselves! Like R119, I don't think it was fair to stick anyone with this gene pool.

People are so fucking selfish. Some of them want babies (unconditional love) so bad, they risk passing on horrible genes (physical diseases, mental illness). After the child serves the purpose of the cute, loving, dependent baby/toddler for the parent, then it's left to suffer through a difficult adulthood. The parents might then abandon the no-longer cute or compliant offspring....or they try to guilt the offspring into taking care of them.

And those are the parents who want kids. Plenty more people just fuck each other without bothering to use birth control, and the consequential kid gets dragged around their miserable life with them. Both parties eventually resent each other. But at least the bio parents can check "parenthood" off their bucket list.

Many straight women feel like they have to have kids because their sisters and friends have them. I’m serious. I have heard this “reasoning” from women countless times.

I'm hoping having kids will bump up my brand.

R35 - but it wasn't just me who was getting a benefit out of James. He was a brilliant and beautiful human being and a successful OB-gyn who saved hundreds of women from cancer at a time when preventive medicine for uterine and breast cancer among many other things. I am a pretty accomplished writer and he was a brilliant human being. I want those traits in a person and also, a way to express a great and unconditional love like we had. If he had lived I KNOW he would have been amazing as a father.

The point of having kids is to create a family that can enjoy life together. It makes children feel secure to have close family relationships.

My granny had 4 kids. Only 2 of them had children. My mom and my aunt each had one kid. So I have one cousin with whom I have nothing in common and never had a relationship with. It has made for a lonely life.

There is no tangible upside because there are no guarantees. Some people are still willing to roll the dice. Good for then.

Them, not then. Ugh.

r127, I have cousins and we barely talk. One is a weird Bible thumper who saved herself until marriage and became Bridezilla. The other one is a cool guy who broke free from the Christian bullshit, moved away and lives near me, but I rarely see him. Last time I saw him was maybe 5 years ago. I haven't seen my father in about that time, too as my dad is an ass.

Unlike you though, that doesn't make me feel lonely. Sure, there are times when I wish I had a normal family that was close but I have a lot of very close friends, some of whom I've known for over 40 years. So my life has not felt lonely. I think friendship is the most important of the relationships we forge. Neither of my parents have any friends and so they are constantly saying how lonely they are...and they had four kids. The thing is, when you treat your children like crap, they will likely not want to have a relationship with you when they are older. I know a lot of people who had good relationships with their kids and yet, the kids rarely visit or call now that they are adults off and living their own lives. Having kids is no guarantee that you will not be lonely, so I suggest that even if you have them, you should still try to find friends.

My daughter put me in Shady Pines.

Don't ask me. I'm still wondering why I did it. What did it get me?

Friendships are definitely more special. The very fact that you hang around these people when you feel absolutely no obligation to means they must be people who make you happy and laugh and smile. I know parents who did everything right and they still have no one in their 50's-90's. They spent too much time raising kids that they forgot to make friends. They have small, surface level friendships with some of the parents of their kid's friends, but once the kids are gone, a lot of these friendships don't continue.

My kids are a source of great joy to me. They’re endlessly entertaining and it satisfies a need to nurture that I have.

My friends make me feel loved. My family (all Trumpers) make me feel like shit.

We gays have our logical family. Not biological. We get to choose. How wonderful is that!

[quote]We gays have our logical family. Not biological.

Don't know if that's original or not, but I've never seen it before, and I'm stealing it!

A phrase along the same lines I do know is, 'Friends are God's apology for relations.'

Logical family - I love it.

[quote] Don't know if that's original or not, but I've never seen it before, and I'm stealing it!

I heard of it from Armistead Maupin who got it from an African American professor. I forget her name.

So you don’t have to think about who gets your stuff.

During this last election and pandemic, I was really moved by a friend of mine who was also friends with my aunt on social media. She went off on her when she posted something pro-Trump and told her that she was a piece of shit for being pro-Trump when she has me, a gay man, in the family. That was the moment where I realized "dear God, my friends are more on my side than some members of my family." I don't know why, but it seemed like a real wakeup call to me. Friends are the things we should really treasure in this world.

I'd given up even explaining myself to this family member and I doubt she'll ever wake up, but what that friend did made me cry. It was nice to know someone was on my side.

Does Dancing With the Stars bring out the nesting instinct?