Job hunting and reverse racism

Over 40 in tech is like over 30 in gay. Good luck!

You all wanted this, well, you got it.

OP, the fact is that it’s going to be very hard to find a job at that salary, whether you’re back or white. It has nothing to do with race, but rather, cheapness. If they can find someone to do 3/4 of your job at half the cost, they’ll do it.

[quote] All four major positions I've been passed over have gone to notably less-experienced, less-qualified POC. As in, one had a goddamn online degree and four years experience at no-name companies for a 220K VP role at a major tech giant

How could you possibly know this?

What did you do before the startup and 200k a year...maybe your resume is a little shakey or you’re a shitty interviewer.

They're not getting that amount of money for four years experience. I have no doubt you're getting passed over in favor of these people because they are considerably cheaper than you.

I had a high-paying job and my company closed the doors when I was 55. It took awhile to land somewhere at a comparable position—and I always thought it was because my interviewing skills were rusty.

I heard that's not it, OP.

I've been part of the hiring process many times OP in tech. There may be discrimination there, but I doubt it is race. It is far more likely age.

It’s most likely your age, OP.

I’ve worked for two large players in the energy industry though and I can see the scrambling by corporate to find and hire diverse candidates. There are definitely some hires that make no sense based on experience or aptitude, but that’s the world we live in. It’s a hell of a lot better for women and minorities, as it should be.

I just wish companies were just as enthusiastic about including gay men as part of that diversity.

[quote] It’s a hell of a lot better for women and minorities, as it should be. Better than what?

OP, I feel your frustration. I've been living it for years. But in most case, it's not reverse racism.

I've dealt with this since a layoff a decade ago, and it is more likely age discrimination. It's well known that 35 is generally top of the range for tech roles unless you're someone like Lazslo Bock or a big kahuna in tech.

Companies are so used to losing employees after a year or two that they no longer hire for skill, knowledge or any magical factor. It's solely price. And younger women will work for much less than a mid career man. Even with all other things being equal, a man past 40 will look expensive on paper. Companies still have outmoded, outdated ideas (man is the breadwinner, etc.)

So if they hired a woman or POC, it's very likely that the amount they were willing to accept was far less. It sucks, but it's a reality.

Unfortunately, you can't exactly say "I'll work for cheap!" without damaging your value "on paper." The only thing I can suggest is to try to network and find new contacts who might help you.

[quote]If they can find someone to do 3/4 of your job at half the cost, they’ll do it.

[quote]you're getting passed over in favor of these people because they are considerably cheaper than you.

R3 and R6 are spot on.

Can you get a tan?

It's illegal to ask, comprende?

Better than it was R11, when the “old boys network” ran everything. I didn’t say it was great... only better.

But you knew that.

R4 - I wondered the same thing. I'm guessing OP was able to see on LinkedIn who got the job and what that person's experience is.

Yup r16. It’s easy now to find out who got the job.

What jobs are good to get into if you’re over 35 then?

It if it a VP level position then yes, it is easy fo find out R16 & R17, but I was more wondering about the "less qualified" part. If the OP is using LInkedIn to judge then that is not a great indicator, and we are taking his word that they are less qualified.

There is always OnlyFans R18.

R18 Wal mart greeter

R18, there might be an opening soon in DC representing the Florida Panhandle.

OP here. I've been at Amazon, Google and Microsoft for bulk of career. I've launched two startups as well that sold and went IPO. And yes, it's easy to find out who got the job on LinkedIn and in two instances, I knew people at the same orgs who called to tell me "yeah, it was a diversity hire." And in both cases, the interview loops only occurred as a legality--they knew they had to hire a POC.

The startup was a phenomenal idea in 2019. There were ten of us in on it, all e-level professionals brought together by an well-known angel investor. Who could have known covid would stop it dead in its tracks.

It's a whole new world out there now. I'm used to dealing w age. Thats child's play now. This shit is a different level.

I'm either leaving America or dying.

I feel you, OP. I'm a television writer. White, gay, 40s. We basically don't exist. It's next to impossible to even sell a show anymore, let alone get one made.

Thankfully, I have enough established relationships to get staff jobs.

On the one hand, I get it. White men have had a long run at the top. On the other hand, I wrote and sold shows that had POC as leads. I wasn't part of the problem. I was actually part of the solution.

But here we are.

For the record, I love the fact that POC have more of a voice. I do. It's just unsettling that they seem to be the ONLY voice.

^"White men have had a long run at the top."

Updated edit: "White straight men have had a long run at the top."

0/10 Troll

My straight bff is 54 and Puerto Rican. She's worked in market research for 30 years (with an MBA) and was at mid-level career-wise. Last May, due to covid, her whole section was cut from the company and she was let go. She'd already started working on a master's in Data Science that the company was paying for so she took out a loan to finish it. She has 9 more credits to go until she's done.

In all this time, she's only had one nibble from a well-known non-profit. But they hired a younger black man.

Make of that what you will.

R25, in television writing, being gay means nothing.

My lawyer always jokes that I should go trans.

I've thought about it for a brief second more than once.

[quote]I know quite a few people just like me.

Insufferable?

R24, as Jenji Kohan said, Red Foxx hired all black writers for Sanford and Son. After the first scripts were turned in he fired them all and demanded that “the Jews” be brought back in. lol

I don’t know why these businesses think that POC or women or whatever are going to be better than white males. They need to be hired based on ability. Sure, give people a shot but give those that actually show talent a shot. These industries now have quotas and the result shows.

$200k doesn’t exist for most Americans. Welcome to reality.

I work very closely with my Company's IT Department. I've found some of the best employees for our needs were less educated and more self taught - as technology changes, they know how to go out out and find the information. They seem to have better networks (people) as well.

Red Foxx was a smart man....he put quality over political correctness. I wish more people would put qualifications first.

[quote]I'm not the race troll. No, I'm not a racist.

Yeah, you are, you little shit.

This gave you away:

[quote]I've been job hunting for four months. All four major positions I've been passed over have gone to notably less-experienced, less-qualified POC.

You know nothing about the people who got the jobs you interviewed for. You might see what's on their LinkedIn, maybe, but there's no way you could know they were all POC who weren't "worth as much" as you.

But this thread will get filled with racists even though your EST is lame and ridiculous, because that's what Datalounge does these days.

Thank you R34. I wish DO would weed out these racist trolls.

What is EST? Can someone please tell me what it means?

R30, I’m semi retired, but worked at three Fortune 100 companies in my lifetime. Early in my career, I saw them hire lots and lots of clueless white men. They hired one man because he was friends with the manager—he had absolutely NO experience in the field, and he stuck around for 30 years. Never promoted btw, held the same position the entire time. But luckily over the years, that dissipated. I would say over the last ten years, there has been pretty diverse hiring, and pretty much all of the hires were very capable. Companies that are actually successful are very careful now to hire capable people. Yes they want diversity, but as I said, I haven’t seen any new hire (minority or otherwise) in the last 10 years who wasn’t capable.

R2 is correct.

R38, yes. And it’s a good thing.

You have two strikes against you OP: white and gay. Before it was just gay.

No it’s not at all R39.

Awww poor white man having trouble finding a job, r41? I’ve seen waaayyyy more incompetent white men than any other category. It’s not even close.

R41 is the same Racist troll who started this thread.

^^ ??

Your issue is your age, not your race.

Not everything is about race, OP. Isn’t that what you want to tell us when the shoe is on the other foot?

Racist^^

God Fucking Damn....so people over 40 are supposed to work where?

Since the go-go stock market of the 80s, the bottom line has been making the most money. Experience and knowledge aren’t as valued. Companies figure they can get someone cheaper and train them. Of course, millennials are all about getting trained and jumping companies, but this hasn’t stopped the trend.

r18, I don't know what field to go into if you're over 35 and want to make $200,000 annually. FWIW, I know someone over 50 who studied to administer EKGs. She was hired quickly by one of the best hospitals in the area and loves her work.

Her previous experience was mostly in bars and restaurants. She was rebuilding her life after hitting bottom as an alcoholic.

The good news, OP, is that is you want a job done well, never hire a POC. They are typically the shittiest employees and in this climate, will use the race card as an excuse for their poor performance. This is a passing trend. Don't stress about it. A Devon or Christopher will always be seen before a Deshan or La Quanda.

No, it is not easy to find out who got the job instead of you. I’ve went on dozens of interviews recently and have never found out who got the job on LinkedIn. Most people don’t even post about their new jobs until months later since it would be embarrassing if they posted about it and then the job didn’t work out. Most jobs also have multiple people in the same role so how would you know who got the job? For example, if you searched sales director at a company, you could see 20 people who started within months of each other. You can’t pinpoint who took your job.

[quote]R51 I'm starting to feel like I don't have a fighting chance.

I guess now you know how women and people of color feel.

Exactly what I thought R4. That was the troll OP's fatal mistake in his racist trolling story.

The DL trolls are SO boring these days. Pathetic.

Sounds like you may have to go black face.

Lol r14

OP you are full of shit. Stfu

Most of my black co-workers are diversity hires and utterly incompetent. This is not the case with my south asian and east asians colleagues who are smart, hard-working and never play the race card.

R57 = blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...

I will reject an appIicant if they use any terms borrowed from Critical Race Theory as I know they will be trouble.

[quote] Since the go-go stock market of the 80s, the bottom line has been making the most money. Experience and knowledge aren’t as valued. Companies figure they can get someone cheaper and train them.

Welcome to End-Stage Capitalism, SUCKAHS.

There's no more "job security". There's no more professional loyalty or respect for "aging" employees. Stable career progression in the same firm has mostly gone out the window - now many workers hectically scramble for jobs and jump from one company to another, like a bunch of disorientated chickens.

And inflation is slated to go through the roof soon - so your wages will stagnate & diminish in value.

You wanted this fucked up hyper-capitalist world - now enjoy.

As they say, get woke, go broke.

R61, the Big Companies & Corporate Monopolies will be fine. It's the rejected workers who'll go broke.

[quote]You wanted this fucked up hyper-capitalist world - now enjoy.

NO we absolutely didn't R60!

The rest of your post is spot on though.

But it will hit their profits. And the start-ups will go broke.

Most start-ups (ca. 90%) go broke anyway, R64. And for the few that make it - a few incompetent hires won't make a difference, as long as the overall product / service is in demand and the investors keep funnelling money into the start-up.

you poor honkey

I believe you OP.

White men are now third in the queue behind POC and then women. As others have said, your age will be the other telling factor. It's interesting to read some think the cut-off age is 35: it used to be 40, and before that, 45. Shades of Edina Monsoon's: "Soon they'll be throwing fetuses down the catwalk."

But it IS discrimination over skill, and grossly unfair, and infuriating. And cunts like the poster above don't make it any easier.

It's good business practice to hire south and east asians. They are smarter and more capable than whites (not to mention African-Americans).

I'd never hire anyone like this.

[quote] [R24], as Jenji Kohan said, Red Foxx hired all black writers for Sanford and Son. After the first scripts were turned in he fired them all and demanded that “the Jews” be brought back in. lol

FFS, that was 50 years ago. Guessing there are a few more experienced and talented black TV writers around in 2021 than there were in 1972, when Redd Foxx was about the only star around who would give them a chance.

BTW, I'd love to see a link to show that this story is even true. Foxx was the star of the show but he wasn't a producer or a network exec, so I have to question how much clout he had when it came to hiring and firing writers.

[quote] OP here. I've been at Amazon, Google and Microsoft for bulk of career.

OP, you've worked for Corporate Monopolies for the bulk of your career. Amazon is a controversial company for the way it treats its blue-collar workers and it's one of the worst tax avoiders in the world. Google (which bought YouTube) is heavily pushing censorship.

Your ex-employers have screwed over the market through Monopolistic & unethical practices and have also pushed for questionable, superficial SJW affirmative action to 'cleanse' their soiled PR image after screwing over the market. So, in part, you have your ex-employers to 'thank' for your current situation. You've naïvely aided & abetted these Big Tech mofos, and the anti-worker, faux-SJW practices that they promote have now screwed you over as well.

This is the kind of thread that makes me so happy I'm old and retired. I can't fathom having to go out and look for a job these days.

[quote] I can't fathom having to go out and look for a job these days.

The discrimination against caftans as sensible office wear for stomached gentlemen of a certain age is still brutal. BRUTAL!

OP, not so long ago—i.e., when you were getting started and advancing in your career—plenty of women and minorities were being rejected from the kinds of jobs you landed because there was no way the boss, whether consciously or not, was going to choose anyone but a fellow white dude. And every time these nonwhite or non-male candidates were unable to get hired, they fell further behind in terms of experience and qualifications—until at some point, many undoubtedly gave up and lowered their ambitions.

Now the shoe is on the other foot and somehow, it's suddenly unfair to consider a candidate's race/ethnicity when hiring. Well, sorry, but no, it's not. It's time that minorities and women get a chance to catch up to white guys in the workplace. If they're truly under-talented rather than just under-experienced, they'll wash out eventually. (And no, it's not impossible to fire a minority. The company I'm currently working for is very woke and big on diversity hires but we always manage to get rid of dead weight, regardless of race/gender/ethnicity*—which thankfully we don't need to do very often because we also consider very carefully the other qualities the person brings to the job.) If this makes it harder than it used to be for a white guy to the job he desires, tough luck.

*Yeah, we care about gay representation in the workplace, but we already have numerous gay men on staff, maybe more than straight men.

Ha, r73.

r34, r37 and r71 are correct.

And OP strikes me as the type who would've automatically dismissed every POC he encountered in an interview by defaulting to 'they must be less competent' trope. He helped buttress the wall-to-wall whiteness that has been corporate America and it's come back to bite him now that they see the need to self-correct for nearly a century of favoring white men and their fraternity brothers.

It's age.

I was let go from my mid-level management job in higher education several years ago after I hit age 50 and had 15 years experience in the office. They replaced me with someone at half my salary who was in their late 20s.

I took the opportunity to change careers (fortunately I could get on my husband's health insurance). Finding a job in your 50s was hard, and I worked in a winery tasting room at $8/hr. I know I'll never make anywhere near what I made 10 years ago, but there are some definite plusses to my life now: I do not have a work email; staff meetings are once a quarter now, and no late nights.

[quote]I guess now you know how women and people of color feel.

And gays.

[50] is spot on. Sadly I’ve tried to work with and hire POC. It is the same thing for them, they are always late and use “awwww is called CPT you wouldn’t understand “ no asshole I don’t understand being LATE for a job. Everyday. And CPT means Coloured Peoples Time. Never heard it before they all said it . So you don’t want to be treated differently because of your skin colour YET you literally have your own name for the reason “your people” are always LATE!? And lazy is 9 out of 10. There’s just this slow , nothings a hurry (unless it’s lunchtime) for them. And apparently chatting on their mobiles or work phones WHILST AT WORK is not even an issue to them as others are working hard and clearly pissed off yet too afraid to say anything for fear of being labeled a “racist”. It’s out of control and yes I’ll take a white male over any black person even if the black person had degrees for days. They come with baggage and I don’t need to walk on eggshells around my employees or my co workers.

I call BS on OP.

He left a stable corporate job at some of the biggest most profitable companies in the world for a start up. Maybe he was hoping the start up would exit and he’d hit the jackpot, but that’s always a gamble. OP gambled and lost. That’s on him.

Something that doesn’t make sense: he says spent most of his career at Amazon, Google and Microsoft. But look at the exponential growth in the stock price of any of those companies over the past decade. For it to make sense to leave those places for a startup the potential payoff has to be huge i.e. the startup would already have to have a big valuation and be well funded by VC. But they couldn’t weather 1 year of covid? At a time when the market is at a record high? That doesn’t make sense.

Also: Making $200K at Amazon, Microsoft, Google? If that’s you’re salary all in (base + bonus + equity) that’s not a bad number...but it’s not great for someone who’s 46. $200K is Sr Manager/Director level. If you’re 46 and are still working at that level...as a hiring manager I’d see that as a red flag. It tells me you’re not able to grow in your role.

But to the bigger point. No one wants to hire someone who is 46 for a manager level role. But equally, no one wants to hire someone 26 for a VP role. Companies still value experience, wisdom, maturity and look to hire more experienced people in higher level roles. Yes having diversity of perspective is important. But at the end of the day you want the best person who fits your culture.

So it’s not about the fact that OP is too expensive. $200K isn’t a lot to pay for someone who is really good- and 1/3 of that will be in deferred comp anyway. Or that he’s old or white or gay. Maybe his resume and reputation isn’t quite as strong as he thinks it is.

DL never used to allow racist scum like r50/r79 talking to and agreeing with themselves. Why would MAGAts want to post here? This site has fallen so far down.

[quote] No, I'm not the race troll. No, I'm not a racist.

Translation: I’m the race troll. I’m a racist.

Hey I don't think OP a racist. I do think we don't know all his story though, as r80 points out.

You're just discovering this now, OP? My friend works in HR for a large multinational, and yes, it is their policy to hire POC first and foremost. The problem is they have trouble finding them, even when they lower the qualifications. So most of the "POC" spots go to women. White men (gay or straight) are only hired as a last resort.

R50 and r79 are racists through and through. They can’t even see what’s in front of them. And I don’t believe r79’s story at all. I’ve seen PLENTY of incompetent white men being hired in the past over POC and women. Now the tables have turned and those men aren’t being hired. Call the waambulance if it bothers you. And companies today—whoever they hire—are incredibly picky and careful. Obviously these dum dums haven’t been on any interviews lately or are not using modern techniques to make sure they get the right candidates.

R84, having supported HR (as a consultant, not as an HR person), r84, there’s a reason for this. The job descriptions (I’m sure you’ve seen them) for many jobs—especially in the tech industry—are very specific and LONG. The difficulty is finding a candidate who has most, if not all of the qualifications. And who passes the background check, which includes financial stuff as well as criminal. Like I said, companies are very picky who they hire now.

R86 is 100% correct and convinces me even more that something is off with OP

[quote]God Fucking Damn....so people over 40 are supposed to work where?

That's the thing. People over 40 still need to work for a living. Most of them need to work for another 20 years before they can retire. Everything in our culture is so youth-obsessed now, in every area.

So apparently we're now at the point where somebody who's a project manager in their 40s making 200,000k a year is a loser. Wonderful.

[quote] And gays.

Oh, please, r78. Despite the victim mentality that’s so prevalent around here, companies that are striving to make more diversity hires are just as interested in hiring gay men and lesbians (even white ones!) as any other minority. In fact, if you’re a boss who’s not really that comfortable hiring, say, blacks and Latinos, or you don’t believe a woman can do the job as well as a man, hiring a nice, clean cut, professional-looking gay guy can be the perfect solution.

Like many here, I think it’s more age based. My friend’s husband was laid off a year after he accepted a promotion and moved cross country. He was with a well known bank in IT for many years and an SVP. He couldn’t find another job for a year and finally landed one through a connection. I have a friend that’s in his 40s which huge employment gaps and he still thinks he’s going to eventually land a corporate sales job with Google or Apple. Never going to happen.

As far as diversity hires, I do think we’ll be seeing that more and more. Don’t really understand why white males of any age support certain ideologies which will basically screw themselves over. They are looked upon as enemy #1 these days. Look at Hollywood now, older white male actors are being squeezed out for the sake of diversity and now they are crying. You reap what you sow.

I agree with much of what r80 said and additionally, if OP is as good as he claims, why can’t get any of those three companies to hire him back?

It sucks, but you're old and you make too much money. It's easy to blame race, but you're at that point in life where there are younger, hungrier people who will do what you do for a fraction of the price.

[quote]Oh, please, [R78]. Despite the victim mentality that’s so prevalent around here, companies that are striving to make more diversity hires are just as interested in hiring gay men and lesbians (even white ones!) as any other minority. In fact, if you’re a boss who’s not really that comfortable hiring, say, blacks and Latinos, or you don’t believe a woman can do the job as well as a man, hiring a nice, clean cut, professional-looking gay guy can be the perfect solution.

Huh.

The problem is age first, and foremost. Then your salary requirements, and then your race. If you're worried about the race thing, just put down "Hispanic/Latin American" If they ask, which is illegal say you're from Spain or Argentina.

I hear you OP. At my organization, all candidates for positions complete an equity checklist when they apply. They tick off what equity seeking groups they are part of (black, racial minority, Indigenous, disability, LGBT, women). We are supposed to start with the BIPOC ones first and find suitable candidates and interview from that pool. If there is no suitable candidate in that pool then we look at those who checked disability, LGBT and women and interview them and only then if there is no suitable candidate can we look at those that didn't check anything on the equity checklist. Additionally, we have to write in an explanation as to why we didn't interview or hire each person in the equity seeking groups.

So we are no longer allowed to look at the whole pool and see who would be the best candidate. We have to go group by group and assess for suitable candidates. It is incredibly time consuming and frustrating. Additionally in my organization, we actually need men. We have a massive surplus of women and because of the kind of work we do, there should be both men and women (clients are often more comfortable with one or the other). By filtering out all the men, we are causing ourselves more issues as it is imbalancing our staff.

Yeah, huh, r94. Sucks that you can’t bitch about diversity hires while also denying that you could possibly be one, eh?

In tech, I'm more inclined to believe it's OP's age, not race that's the big issue, especially if he's focused on startups or small companies.

Bigger companies run by people who followed a more traditional career path still focus on resumes and bona fides while smaller and newer companies consider over 40 to be dinosaurs.

White gay men have run from their minority status for so long that it's starting to bite them in the ass. And I weep for poor, R96. How hard must your life be.

OP might just not be as competent as he thinks he is or he’s not a great interviewee. It’s a competitive market.

R96, and why shouldn’t you pick a person of color if they’re qualified to do the job? You do know that white men, by far, make more money and have the majority of well paying jobs.

[quote]Yeah, huh, [R94]. Sucks that you can’t bitch about diversity hires while also denying that you could possibly be one, eh?

Oh.

R101 I think my frustration is more that the hiring process now takes 3 times as long and involved a lot of documentation that it didn't used to have. I am happy to hire anyone who can do the job well. We get very few male applicants overall - and having most of them filtered out of the interview process makes it hard to keep men on staff.

I feel your frustration OP but I agree with others about it being about AGE over race. Tech seems very agust in general, some of it related to being cheap with wages. I have plently of friends in careers that are strict on minority hiring quotas, yet it doesn't stop white men being hired for the majority of jobs, especially for the better job positions. However, AGE is discriminated against, regardless of job quotas, type of job, position, etc. We haven't made much progress when it comes to less obvious discrimination and since race/ sex discrimination is still tough to prove, age is even tougher to prove.

I wish you luck going forward though.

And of course now you can look up somebody's age online in two seconds, there's no hiding how old you are anymore.

My experience with Tech is that it is very white and Asian and very youth driven. My advice is start looking at something outside of tech companies. Maybe you can be an IT director at an established non tech company.

Yikes! I took a 'sabbatical' from a finance job at 55 thinking I'd just take a little break from corporate life and be back after a couple years. I'm now 65 and having travelled the world hiking the greatest trails, I'm putting my privileged white resume back together to search for something in the public sector and expecting 6 figures. Are you all saying no matter how talented or charismatic I am, I don't have a chance in hell?

For those under 45, this is a good time to revisit your skill sets and figure out how you can make a living independently. There is absolutely no job security and the notion of being replaceable is stronger now than ever. Find your niche and try to figure out how you can make money from it. For UK readers, in the US, it is "at will" termination in most states meaning you can think you have a job today and get fired the next for no good reason or every good reason, it doesn't matter. There is no 3 month redundancy notice and severance like the UK. Now is actually a good time to get fired from that shitty job and collect the enhance unemployment while trying to create something for yourself.

"because of the kind of work we do, there should be both men and women (clients are often more comfortable with one or the other). By filtering out all the men, we are causing ourselves more issues as it is imbalancing our staff."

I suspect some of your non-white clients would also prefer to see people who are from their race or ethnic group. If you don't have a diverse staff, that can't happen.

Advice for OP: If you belong to professional associations which have special interest groups or committees for POC or other favored minorities, join one of those those and list them on your resume.

I know two different people who emphasized their heritage and were considered diversity hires despite appearing white. One had a Spanish surname but was otherwise a natural redhead who learned Spanish in high school because neither of her parents spoke it. The other had some Caribbean heritage, but would have not been recognized as black just based on appearance (fair skin, naturally straight hair). Both were competent and otherwise qualified, which helps..

If you're really desperate, come out loudly and proudly as non-binary. It's not much effort to do that (you don't need to make any medical change or even buy a new wardrobe). If anyone questions your apparent male "presentation" or your sincerity, just get indignant about them policing your identity and threaten to sue for discrimination.

You’re obviously crap at interviews. Start there. My company just hired a white guy in his 60s for an entry level position.

R109 Yes you are right. We have many clients who would prefer to see someone who shares their race / ethnicity, or disability status or LGBT orientation. Our clients are 15-25 and they really like to see someone who 'gets me' and 'understands me' so the more diversity we have the better. however that person still has to be good at their job and not everyone is. For example, one issue we have had is that our work environment is very fast paced and staff need to independently make decisions quickly and move on. What we hear from a number of BIPOC candidates, is that is just not how they work. They prefer to take more time thinking about things, more time talking to clients, more time to collaborate, more time to think it over before making a decision. We have been told this is a cultural accommodation, that we can't force the western notion of how we work onto others. If we accommodate that, those people who say they need a slower pace to do their roles well for cultural reason see fewer clients and the backlog / waiting list grows. Those that see more clients get frustrated that they have a heavier workload and every one gets stressed when the waiting list is long! It is a learning curve we are on.

[quote] And of course now you can look up somebody's age online in two seconds, there's no hiding how old you are anymore.

How?!? I want to know how old my co-workers are. Most don’t put their graduating year on LinkedIn.

[quote] but it’s not great for someone who’s 46. $200K is Sr Manager/Director level. If you’re 46 and are still working at that level...as a hiring manager I’d see that as a red flag. It tells me you’re not able to grow in your role.

So if it’s pathetic to be only making $200K at 46, how much money should a 46 year old make to not be pathetic?

[quote]What we hear from a number of BIPOC candidates, is that is just not how they work. They prefer to take more time thinking about things, more time talking to clients, more time to collaborate, more time to think it over before making a decision. We have been told this is a cultural accommodation, that we can't force the western notion of how we work onto others. If we accommodate that, those people who say they need a slower pace to do their roles well for cultural reason

Cultural accommodation? Aren't we supposed to all be Americans?

R50- I would not hire a DESHAN or a LEQUANDA

but I would hire a

LEROY and a TAWANA.

[quote]I suspect some of your non-white clients would also prefer to see people who are from their race or ethnic group.

I imagine as a white person I'd be labeled a racist if I said I preferred to see people who are from my race and ethnic group. Funny how that works.

Anyway, I guess I'm in luck. My last name ends in a vowel. I can claim being Hispanic!

(God, the US and its lefty race/equity obsession is fucked.)

Racist ^^!

[quote]God, the US and its lefty race/equity obsession is fucked

There’s no way to go on either side. Extremism won out. We are the Middle East. Extreme people, everywhere. I hate it.

Idiot^^

Sorry R118. My post at R119 was intended for R117.

Well—that was me. I was just kidding. I should have put /s. I WW though!

I WW’d you though. You’re correct.

A friend of mine is of Portugese ancestry from his father and Irish from his mother. He grew up upper middle class in Rhode Island, total silver spoon in his mouth. He looks like Jason Bateman. But because his surname is Portugese he can check the "Hispanic/Latino" box and voilà he's a POC/minority. He has definitely worked this to his advantage.

[quote] But because his surname is Portugese he can check the "Hispanic/Latino" box

Interesting, since he's neither.

Yeah same. I am making six figures and I am pretty sure once this assignment abroad ends they will find someone else and give me the boot. All I can do it take my portfolio of projects and look for freelance stuff now. I am being paid too much at 43 and the median age of the writers is 26. They also outsourced to Eastern Europe so there is that for cost reduction. It's not just white men like me. My roommate is getting less and mess work and loads of harassment and she thinks they want her to leave. She is making a lot and in her 40's and is an American woman with 20 years experience. Found out they hired a freelancer of 27 who does the equivalent of what she does in a sister department for 1/2 the salary.

r124 his surname is close enough, apparently.

OP needs top learn what racism is. Prosceptive employers sense his stupidity and want nothing to do with him for that reason.

[quote] it's suddenly unfair to consider a candidate's race/ethnicity when hiring. Well, sorry, but no, it's not.

Racism is NEVER fair. But typed, R74, like a true, smug HR cow, parrotting the latest diktat.

[quote]I hear you OP. At my organization, all candidates for positions complete an equity checklist when they apply. They tick off what equity seeking groups they are part of (black, racial minority, Indigenous, disability, LGBT, women).

Jealous, bitches?

[quote]I hear you OP. At my organization, all candidates for positions complete an equity checklist when they apply. They tick off what equity seeking groups they are part of (black, racial minority, Indigenous, disability, LGBT, women).

Seriously, the sooner such a discriminatory outrage is made illegal in hiring (as it eventually will be), the better for everyone.

Below average and average white men finally not getting those jobs that they never deserved. The smart ones are doing just fine.

The OP says he's not racist, yet gets pissed off that, in his opinion, unqualified minorities are getting hired for jobs that he should be getting. How is that not racist? Isn't that the gripe of every racist white man, you've ever heard.

It is, r133. In my experience, every minority applicant who was hired that I worked with were more than capable of doing the job.

R80, 200K has been my lowest base for the past decade. I'm not including bonuses or stock. My biggest year was 870K but that seemed irrelevant to the topic.

And yes, I gambled and lost on the most recent start-up. That also isn't the point of the post.

And for those of you doubting how hard it is to figure out who got the jobs I went for: these are largely visible VP-level roles. There's usually a press release or announcement across the obscure twitterverse.

OP its either you're old or you're pricing yourself out. I agree with r106, if you've been passed over this many times in your industry its time to take your experience elsewhere. You cant be complacent on visible VP roles if tech companies wont hire you for them.

White males are OVER.

[quote]White males are OVER.

Instead of having 99.9% of all the money, all the wealth, the choice of all the best pussy/dick they want, all the best jobs, and all the power in the world, they now have 99.75% of it. This idea of white guys losing out and being pushed out, is nonsense. They are still at the top of the food chain.

I bet all of the "diversity hires" that OP is complaining about still report to a white guy.

The current narrative is that white males are over.

R139 let’s be clear that the ones telling this narrative are white men; the mediocre ones or the old ones who continue to to expect the same high wage they got ages ago in a completely different market

r140 no, it's lots of people of color.

[quote]The current narrative is that white males are over.

Cancelled for race and gender. How progressive.

Over!