Graham Norton thinks it's weird that gay men are now expected to get married and have kids

What a homophobie. What does he care what the gays do?

Pinknews wouldn't even know who Graham Norton was if he hadn't been on Drag Race.

Most heterosexuals procreate by accident. Very few children are planned. I see Norton's point.

He's right. Gay are trying to imitate the boring straights. What's the point of being gay?

He's right. It's now an expectation, where did it switch to from being an option to an expectation?

Hes 100% correct. I love Graham.One of the few shows where I laugh constantly.

It’s much weirder that lgbtq “leaders” want to erase homosexuality from existence.

Shut up R1/R2. The broken clock is right.

I think it’s pretty fucking weird for anybody to be expected to marry and have kids. People are different. Not everybody wants to get married, move the the suburbs and push out crotch fruit. The pressure that is placed on women who choose not to become breeders is especially bizarre. People act like my sister is crazy because she had a hysterectomy and decided against having babies. Weird.

That's a Pink News article so can be disregarded in its entirety. That site just makes stuff up to push whatever agenda its following that day.

He dated Tina Burner from Drag Race. I don't trust his judgement.

Ben Cohen, the misogynist who runs Pink News was claiming that he and his husband are being discriminated against by the NHS because they are two men who want to have a baby.

[quote]In England, the NHS provides no support for gay male couples starting a family through surrogacy. In Scotland it does. So we have to do it privately, including blood & semen tests. All of our tests are invalid because of lockdown shutdown, so it means paying again (1/2)

[quote]If we were straight, then we would be entitled to three cycles of IVF and all of the associated test costs would be covered by the NHS. I realise the NHS is under a lot of strain, but @MattHancock promised last year there would be a review of this. Nothing has happened. (2/2)

[quote]Just to add: Of course the expenses of the surrogate shouldn't be necessarily covered by the state. But I do resent having to get my credit card out for medical services that would be free if I was straight.

I don't know why he or his husband can't identify as a female for 9 months and gestate their own baby.

[Quote] He dated Tina Burner from Drag Race. I don't trust his judgement.

He's turned down Jeffery Self every time. There's that.

I agree the issue is that ANYONE is expected to marry and have kids.

Gays had figured out a lifestyle outside societal definitions in the 20th century. A relationship was a flexible, subjectively defined and possibly sexually open sharing of life with a partner - which may include living together or not, sleeping together or not, being together 24/7 or only on occasion. No contractual obligations or presumptions that it was only ended at death.

Kids should not be assumed - they should be the exception not the norm. Straight couples should - and wealthier, better educated ones already do - make a decision to have kids that is strategically, financially and emotionally analyzed and belabored. Not a default result of getting married - or an “accident” from having sex and accepting it as Gods will.

Gays have so much to teach straight people about how to live in the modern world. I’m glad we won the right to the old antiquated concepts - purely for equality sake. But the world needs to throw out the dated concepts of marriage and family,

He’s right. Being just like everyone else is not liberation, any more than joining the workforce was liberation for most women, and both were mislabeled as such.

Graham was right that now fat bourgeois gay men are trying to pressurize themselves and others to get married and to have kids, borrows hetero soundbites like you're not complete without kids or one day your prince will come. *vomit*

OMFG! I forgot the hideous, stinking, fat Divisive Cunt Troll OP!!! Well, fuck you, fat fugtard OP!!!

I completely agree with him.

There is now this expectation among straight people that gays are supposed to be getting married and having kids like they do.

I have people surprised when I tell them I don't plan on being a father,even though duh I am GAY. We don't even have kids naturally so no one should assume a gay guy is going to have kids.

[Quote]“It’s like, do you know how much that costs?” the 57-year-old said.

Very important point. All the wealthy gay celebrities make it seem like it is no big deal. However it costs A LOT of money to have a baby via surrogate and even a decent amount of money to adopt one. It's really not an option for "everyday" gays.

I agree with him, too. Are you going to get married? Are you going to have kids? Constant refrain from straight acquaintances -- not friends -- acquaintances.

As others have written here and elsewhere, gay liberation means so much more to me than assuming a heteronormative lifestyle. We should enjoy all the civil rights that straights have -- including marriage equality. Marriage just may not be for me.

Breeders make terrible parents in general. Just look at the population of over 2 million in US prisons. All of those criminals, murders, rapists came from straight heterosexuals. Not gay couples.

Such a bitter little leprechaun. Much like Siberia, few actually go there.

With acceptance came expectations. You cant have it both ways. I dont agree that gays should be expected to have kids, but you cant write off the exception about being a couple and marriage if you fought for the right to be married. I am not saying all gay couples need to be married, neither do all straight couples. But you cant be surprised of the expectation when you want all the other parts of society norms and legal rights.

Graham is out of his mind if he though you could have legalized gay marriage and social acceptance without the expectation you fallow the other heternormative rules.

Who said they wanted ALL the other parts?

It's not mainstream society that expects gay men to marry and have kids.

It's their mothers.

Nah. It's the dinner party set.

Norton is often a bit off in his remarks, but here I more or less agree with him.

Though my husband is younger, I'm past the age of reasonably serving as a vial father to a child. I am not a Hollywood name, nor a captain of industry on a sixth marriage, nor a hillbilly knockin' up one of my youngin's youngins (again.) The idea never occured to me but I've been asked too many times by well meaning straight people (thinking they are saying something 'empowering,' I suppose, "Have you guys thought of having children?".

You mean butt babies? Jelly babies? What exactly are you talking about? What makes you think it would be fun for me to have a child leaving for college when o am on my later 70s?

Besides that bit of stupidity is that which gays inflict upon themselves. Some are brilliant parents, I know, but having a kid ought not be a de rigeur accessory, proof that a gay man now has everything: job, man, husband, house, dog, holidays at the best places, AND a fucking baby that somebody told them they should have to complete the ensemble.

In that sense Norton is right.

It’s why conservative lawyers signed on for Obgerfell. They were fine with gays if they stuck to heteronormative standards. Enforcing those standards was more important than hating gays.

When Gay marriage became a thing 10 years ago a lot of my friends wondered why I was so ambivalent. . I said I was always glad I was Gay but I loved living my life outside mainstream expectations.

Then when I was on Datalounge at the time everyone was yelling how fantastic it would be and if you didn’t love it you were a bigot. I said at the time . Mark my words we will all be expected to marry and have kids and casual sex will be seen as shit.

Then with Marriage Rights you will be just seen as another man and we will be fed to the wolves for diversity. I still think that.

I'm sure Graham would haul his droopy ass down the aisle at 100mph in the unlikely event of a significantly younger top popping the question.

I guess the British Isles produced more than one MARY! by the name of Norton:

He probably finds it weird because he is incapable of having a long term relationship himself.

R29 - he's actually a top, it's common knowledge.

Well, gay men could always vote, they had to come up with SOME kind of bullshit consolation prize. Hooray, now you can be just like your parents!

He is a homophobe. He also attacked same-sex dance couples on Strictly Come Dancing.

Pretty much every gay couple I know is on Grindr. The idea that casual sex has become "shit"... It is to laugh.

And why would anyone need to mark your words about expectations? Gay men aren't biting nails off over the "pressure" to have kids. At most the question from straights is curious or an irritation.

I'm not against same sex ballroom/latin dance couples but I'm not for it either. Those dance forms are all about gender norms - or when they flip it as a gag ("A woman dressed as a matador!!?!?!"). I'd much prefer to see same sex dance couples on a modern form dance show.

Many long-term gay couples who wanted to get married (and/or start a family) have finally got to do so. Gay people finally have this option. The people whining really don’t get that there are many gay people who aren’t like you and do want to settle down. This was true even before gay marriage. It’s straight people who did not want gay couples to have the same rights and benefits.

R37, I think the complaint is partly that gay activism is now seen as dead. Marriage equality was the end of the rainbow for the rich political types.

[quote]Pretty much every gay couple I know is on Grindr. The idea that casual sex has become "shit"... It is to laugh.

When civil partnerships were introduced in the UK in the 2004/2005ish I was amazed how many men on gaydar or other hook up websites would use PHOTOS FROM THEIR ACTUAL PARTNERSHIP CEREMONY on their profiles.

I get that they looked their absolute best on their wedding day and paid a lot of the photographs so wanted to get the most out of them but seriously there was no sense of shame.

When it comes to gay couples having children I know two types of couples.

There's one type who are really hands on with nieces and nephews and god children and consider adoption, fostering or discussion with a friend about being sperm donors.

Then there are those who go straight to surrogacy (the cost is not a consideration) and start their family that way, often with a nanny or an au pair to help out. They think of surrogacy as a right.

A sweeping generalisation, but the couples who tend to stay together are the first type.

[quote]He probably finds it weird because he is incapable of having a long term relationship himself.

While I agree that getting married and having children is not for everyone, calling people who do weird tells me there is bitterness there. Every person who is gay and single is not a hoe either, that's another common misconception

[Quote] seriously there was no sense of shame.

Should there be? To some, sex is liking taking a piss - quick relief.

He snogged me in Heaven once.

It was gross.

[Quote] While I agree that getting married and having children is not for everyone, calling people who do weird tells me there is bitterness there.

He said the expectation was weird, not the people who want children.

[Quote] He snogged me in Heaven once. It was gross.

Uninvited?

Blame the gays with money. In order to fit in with others of a higher socioeconomic position — mostly straights — they imitate their child-rearing behavior. Most gays can’t even afford children, while an overpaid hack like ryan murphy can spawn his own village of the damned-looking offspring.

[quote]Mark my words we will all be expected to marry and have kids and casual sex will be seen as shit.

Okay, but look, if you were brave enough to live outside societal norms before gay marriage was legal in the US, then you'll be brave enough to do it now, despite societal expectations.

I really don't understand this; if you were telling heteronormative society to fuck off a decade ago, why can't you still do it now, after Obergefell? Yes, of course, it's irritating when office mates and relatives you see twice a year get nosy about kids or getting legally married instead of living together, but you dealt with that kind of irritation before, right? Just with a different set of questions?

It seems like the objections are more along the lines of "gay used to be cool, now it's mainstream and dumb" but no one wants to admit that.

R44 It was Heaven's 21st Birthday bash in 2000.

I was drunk and he took advantage. Just one of those things.

Was his breath bad? Too much tongue?

He’s right and I’m glad he said it.

Also - given the state of the environment - no one should be having kids at this point. But if you ever mention that the breeders go absolutely batshit fucking crazy. No one will stand between them and their right to procreate.

The insta gays who have taken up the mantle of fraus with their constant baby.... sick.

Agree with the poster above re: couples who foster/adopt/love their nieces and nephews vs. the types who employ a surrogate and order a baby for social media (think Jesse Tyler Ferguson) and clearly have a baby nurse/nanny/etc.

Dataloungers are just going to have to accept the fact that, no, you cannot regulate a human's right to procreate. You just can't. I get that a lot of you are big, big fans of eugenics and fascism, but you gotta let it go.

Yes, the world is overpopulated. Nope, you don't get to decide who breeds and who doesn't. Both things are true.

R48 Too round faced back then.

Plus he had a widow's peak hairline.

[quote] Ben Cohen in R12's post But I do resent having to get my credit card out for medical services that would be free if I was straight.

Bit of a shame he's a Tory then seeing as they want to privatise the NHS. But then some people resent having to pay for anything.

[quote] Also - given the state of the environment - no one should be having kids at this point.

Oh, fuck off with that bullshit.

R53 okay sure - not my problem anyway - it’s your brats who will have to deal with the fallout from climate change. Buy as many babies as you want.

The world of hetersexuality is a dull and boring life!

2000: "I can't even talk about my partner at work!"

2020: "My co-workers ask if my husband and I want children!"

I know which I prefer.

So true R55

It’s not weird that Gays can choose to have families if they wish. It would be weird if people expected Norton to pass on his inferior genes.

R46, maybe the problem is less that gay is now uncool and more that gay has less meaning and less community.

He never said it's weird to want kids. He said the expectation that you would is weird to min, a gay man in late middle age. Jesus be some reading comprehension.

*weird to him

I'm married and appreciate the sacrifices that it took to get those legal rights for us.

But it should be a matter of choice.

It IS suffocating heterosexuality for others to assume that you want all those things, and a lot of times when it comes from others it boils down to "I want these things, ergo my little gay friend must want these things too."

That way for marriage, and definitely for raising a child, which is a lot of fucking work and total hetero stuff. If someone really feels to the tips of their toes they need to do it, sure, I am for that 100 percent. But too many gay men I know adopted or did surrogacy because having a kid was the trend du jour, and now they have screaming, shitting 5 year olds and growing debt on their surrogacy loan. You have to be very clear about the reasoning.

There ARE beautiful, unique things about gay culture that are lost. When we abandoned the edges of society we lost some of the beautiful view we had there.

[quote]What's the point of being gay?

There is no point. It's not a choice. It's a characteristic. What's the point of being left handed or Italian or tall?

It’s what some of us fought for; and that’s fine. In that regard we have gotten what we wanted. So now, gays can choose to marry and procreate. We no longer have our choices forced on us.

It’s like signing up for military service. Why can’t we let well enough alone? Next we’ll be giving up our innate good taste and be wearing caftans and earrings.

I don't have the length of neck to carry that look off R65

You can do it r66 look at elizabeth Taylor and she even topped the ensemble off with a turban.

Well, DL doesn't give any other options beyond being Gay, does it R63? Bisexual is not allowed, queer is not allowed. Only Kinsey 6 Gay, which is presented as being something innate (without any scientific evidence whatsoever). I personally don't need to excuse my life by blaming the gay comet going over mom's head during labor.

Homosexuality is a characteristic. Gay is a culture.

[quote]When Gay marriage became a thing 10 years ago a lot of my friends wondered why I was so ambivalent. . I said I was always glad I was Gay but I loved living my life outside mainstream expectations.

If you were not monogamously coupled, you were living exactly how the "mainstream" expected you to.

[quote]Next we’ll be giving up our innate good taste

One of the great stereotypes about being gay. Most of us are closer to luriddigs than Nate Berkus or whoever you anoint as your style maven.

R69, are you asserting there is a monolithic culture? I would argue there's no more a gay culture than there is an Italian or American culture. Nor do I accept a culture is fixed. We've changed a lot even in fifty years, even if you accept there's certain dominant characteristics of a gay culture, which there probably are.

R72, not monolithic. I'd go so far as to say that the moneyed NYC gays produced something that pretended to a standard gay culture. Maybe it's broken down by social classes, different gay cultures for different classes. But poor gays are all about aspirational activities. Right?

I'm not the first one to observe this but it's remarkable that the gay rights movement of the 2000s-2010s fought to give gays access to the most stultifying, imprisoning institutions in human culture - marriage and the military. I guess we *should have access to it, but why do we *want it?

I couldn't agree more, R74, but some people do point out that the military is often one of the only decent options for the working classes, especially when they want to get away from a bad situation. Obviously the whole point of the show is to dominate and murder people, but the machine is made of people. As for marriage? Fuck that noise.

Based AF, r74. 🙌

I never thought it was a question of why should we want it so much as it should be ours to reject if we saw fit, as opposed to others rejecting us from having it. Pure equality.

I agree with him. Much like some straight people, not all gays want to have children or get married. I've been in a serious relationship for 6 years now and people (mostly straight) keep asking when we're getting married and/or having kids. As if we're somehow incomplete without a few rugrats running around and draining all our time, energy, and pockets. No, thank you.

R67 Liz had star quality to carry of the turban too.

Me, I'd just look like I'd stumbled down an embankment after a train derailment!