The Asian Spa thing

I agree to an extent. There are tons of the Asian-owned spas that are solely for S E X. Guys aren't going in their to discuss philosophy. He specifically went to a place that caters to sexual needs.

I mean Robert Kraft went to them. A billionaire who could hire a top escort went for a quick rub n' tug. Some Asians themselves are catering to that stereotype.

going in there*

Again, as has been said in the other 400,000 threads on this, we don't know that it was a sex spa, people are assuming because of stereotypes and because of the excuse the killer gave.

R3, trust me, they were. I live in a neighborhood where like five of them opened up in like five mins once the neighborhood became more Asian. The cops closed down four of them. I'm now seeing all of these "children's music schools."

People talk about black on black crime, but the way Asians mistreat each other is even worse.

Yes, let's complain about black-on-Asian crime and "the way Asians mistreat each other".....but not the white guy who killed a bunch of Asian women

And let me just add that I have little issue with Asians. They're mostly hard-working and quiet. I just don't like the mess some make and the hideous iron railing they put on any house they buy, but otherwise, they're good neighbors.

R5? One has nothing to do with the other. A lot of those Asian women are forced into sex slavery by Asians, that doesn't fucking mean I don't want to see a bullet put into the head of every fucking white supremacist.

The Japanese had Korean "comfort women" in the 30s and 40s.

GI's patronized "geisha houses" in Occupied Japan in the 40s and 50s.

GI's went to Bangkok on R & R in the 60s.

The sexualization of Asian women is nothing new.

[quote] That they're submissive and compliant? That sounds like no Asian woman I've ever met in business.

What business is this? If you're in the corporate world, of course they're going to be aggressive. They have to be to survive. I've met a lot of Asians in academia and most of them are naturally pretty submissive (male and female).

I'm thinking this would no longer be considered acceptable.

"But if the phrase "me love you longtime" has been used to torment Asian women, don't these spas commodify and exploit that fetish? "

Can't the same thing be said about DL? Hell, the very first post after the story about the elderly woman being attacked was: " Sum Ting Wong."

R7, most of these women aren't "forced into sex slavery"

And if there wasn't a market for it, these places wouldn't exist. So blame the (mostly) white guys who patronize these places

Mainstream American didn't watch Kubrick; they listened to 2 Live Crew.

Isn't one of the "draws" of Asian women the perception by white men that they're tighter (in addition to deferential etc)?

The Golden Spa was hand job city. Read the reviews.

So there's the fetish, which was probably cultivated during the Korean and Vietnamese wars. I think that's worth examining. No doubt Netflix has a documentary in the works or it should.

There's also the spas themselves, which I assume are Asian-owned and which I'd like to know more about. I have no opinion about the vice squad ignoring them but it seems odd that they do.

The killing lifted the veil on these spas. I did not imply a cause-and-effect relationship and nor should you. The spas didn't cause the killing; the workers have a right to exploit the fetish even though it's probably the owners who profit. The workers are clearly entitled to better security than these places provide, although it shouldn't be necessary.

Do they have Asian masseurs on staff to service gay men and the occasional woman? Are any of them upscale? Are they really spas or just a series of rooms with massage tables?

Hey baby! You got girlfriend Vietnam? Well, baby, me so horny. Me so horny. Me love you long time.

The Korean and Vietnam wars were partly responsible for the fetishization of Asian women, American soldiers who went there didn't interact with any women except prostitutes, and low-cost prostitutes at that. A lot of straight creeps love prostitutes because that's the one way a regular Joe can go ahead and treat women 100% as a commodity, and not a person. They love that, they don't think that women are people anyway, and the hooker/John relationship allows them to stop pretending to care, and bring nothing to the table but a bit of money.

I think the Asian immigrant hooker fantasy brings out the worst in these guys, they think the women will give them more submission for their few bucks, and are poor and desperate enough to do anything for their money, and maybe be poor and desperate enough to want to move in with him or marry him and obey him in all things, if he spends some of his American dollars on her.

Yeah, their fondest romantic dream is to prey on the desperation of an illegal immigrant who's probably been trafficked. Guys like that don't tell themselves it's because desperate women will put up with more abuse or that no woman who isn't desperate would want him, but that's what they're after.

I strongly doubt that Full Metal Jacket was responsible for this. Assuming the stereotype even started that recently, I'd be more inclined to blame Southeast Asia's sex tourism market especially considering how many U.S. servicemen partook during the Vietnam War. You know, the phenomenon that Full Metal Jacket was depicting, not endorsing.

The fetishization of Asian women goes back far beyond the Korean and Vietnam eras. Read Edward Said on orientalism and the West. It's wrapped up in exoticism of the Other. The various stereotypes of the Asian woman who knows exotic sexual secrets is on full display in the Hollywood films pre-World War Two with actresses of European descent playing Asian women.

R10 get over it!!!! Minstrel shows are no longer appropriate or do you want to go back to the “good ol days” of Jim Crow?

Wait-this instance is of Asian massage parlors. But around me, white operated ones are easy to find. Moreover, the strip clubs, mainly white, are sites of common prostitution. Rarely, if ever, are these places policed unless someone misses a payoff. So we need not act as if Asians are running unique sex service businesses.

Are all the massage parlors brothels or are some of them just for back massages?

The Asian spa workers are so foreign and subservient that it’s like having a silent slave. The guys feel no guilt. They think they are “good guys” and that there could be a worse guy with the girl and the girls should be grateful. They pay less for the tougher accommodations. The tiny closet sized room. The men who frequent Asian health spas are complete racists and that’s part of their fun. Are the girls in a actual sex slave trade? They hope so.

Are they illegal immigrants?

The Asian spas are run by Asian pimps and madams.

Some of just want a handjob from a Chinese woman who can't speak a word of English. Leave us alone.

I have a straight female friend who gets legit massages at the little massage place on a side street that advertises “Qi gong tui na”.

Not that they don’t give happy endings to men, there, but she raves about the massage from her girl Lu. They’re probably so happy to just get a request for a straight-up massage from a fit clean woman with no funny business.

That’s all I know.

They have a legit front and illegal stuff later...

I know someone (woman) who went to one for a legit massage and the place ended up being raided for what was going on in the back late at night.

Yes, you can get just regular massages at them. One around here even does Accupuncture. I think str8 men kind of target particular ones kind of like we would with an ABS back in the day. There was one with white girls in the same weird strip mall as one of my fav antique stores. The girls would sit outside on nice days, which probably drove the Antique Mall’s owners crazy. I was kind of surprised by how young, and pretty they were. Eventually, the Massage Parlor moved or went out of business.

Was the killer the racist misogynistic Canadian tranny nutjob, Jessica Yaniv?

R30 Stop your Right Wing Trolling. You know it was one of your fellow Proud Boyz

R30 is so obsessed with trans people he has to drag them into a thread about a straight customer incel who killed people

R30 I am a trans and have no idea who “Jessica Yaniv” is or was. Try something else, loser.

The trannies are out in force today!

Back to Asians and the OP's question: the Asian businesswomen I have met have been, almost to a woman, ferocious, far more ruthless than any of the men (who remain in their heart of hearts obsessed with video-gaming).

Are this guy's motives clear at the moment?

Were the employees at the spa mostly Asian women, did he target them because he hates specifically Asians, did he kill them because he hated himself for his sex addiction. What role did his religious extremism play in the killing?

I think it's probably more hatred of women than the fact they were Asian. The prostitutes (or whatever) he had access to just happened to be Asian. Like the Yorkshire Ripper and so many other serial killers, they attack prostitutes because of they make them feel like failures.

I would think that Good Morning Vietnam and Priscilla has a lot to do it if movie portrayals are to blame.

I blame Madama Butterfly and The Mikado.

Does Qi gong tui na mean “hand jobs here”?

I love this scene

OP, I may be wrong but I don't think very many Asian women post to DL. And they're the ones you should really be asking.

I could have been killed. I go to a Korean spa clear across the country and haven't been there in more than a year. I'm with all the all naked men on one side of the building with the naked women on the other. But still.

What if it is revealed that the spas were run by that female Chinese massage parlor chain entrepreneur who donated to Trump?

[quote]did he kill them because he hated himself for his sex addiction.

So why didn't he kill HIMSELF? It was his problem.

This guy needs the gas chamber, pronto.

[quote] A commentator on MSNBC said today that Stanley Kubrick and Full Metal Jacket were responsible for the fetishization and hyper-sexualization of untold numbers Asian women.

Really?

[quote]So why didn't he kill HIMSELF? It was his problem.

Because his religion told him women are evil because they made him addicted to sex. You never heard of Adam and Eve?

Because he is an entitled white Deplorable. THEY don’t do stuff wrong. Blacks, Asians Hispanics, Gays or Trannies MAKe them do bad things like mass shootings.

OMFG the reviews by straight men of the SPA:

" A lil pudgy around the middle but tan and deep tuna hole. "

Link r49??

I blame "Miss Saigon."

Over the years I've met quite a few couples where the wife was a war bride --either from the Korean conflict or Vietnam. And even after years of being in the US, they mostly still look like whores--way too much makeup, tacky, flashy clothes, etc.

R52 = someone who attended the same church as the shooter!

Why do straight guys blame women for "tempting" them? This reminds me of that guy at BYU who sent a mean note to a woman wearing a dress that was, like, a half an inch above the knee for "distracting" him

As others have pointed out, the hypersexualization and fetishization of Asian women by white men is a very old story. Unfortunately, I’ve observed a similar phenomenon among some gay white men.

[quote]Why do straight guys blame women for "tempting" them?

It's religion R54, the Pulse shooter was a closeted gay, he probably hated himself for being gay, but others had to die for it. The guy wo ran over 80 people with his truck in Nice, France was a closeted Muslim.

It's extremist religious fanatics.

[quote] A commentator on MSNBC said today that Stanley Kubrick and Full Metal Jacket were responsible for the fetishization and hyper-sexualization of untold numbers Asian women.

Really?

It's part of all extreme patriarchal systems that straight men are NEVER held responsible for sexually motivated crimes, the woman (or girl or boy or bottom) is held responsible for being assaulted and is socially or legally punished. The worst case scenario are women in Muslim countries being executed for "adultery" or "fornication" after they were raped, while the rapist went free.

This guy probably had a similar belief system, that he could do no wrong, and that his sexual objects should be punished if he ever felt any guilt for the sex. Well, apparently he did feel guilty, thanks to his horrible fucking stupid church, and he killed innocent people because he'd projected his guilt feelings onto them. He'll never feel any remorse, never, not even after he's raped in prison.

[quote]Well, apparently he did feel guilty, thanks to his horrible fucking stupid church, and he killed innocent people because he'd projected his guilt feelings onto them.

R58 nails it!

[quote]The sexualization of Asian women is nothing new.

Tell me about it..

Full Metal Jacket was released in 1987. Asian fetishism existed long before that.

R52 My dad was in the military and I saw this a LOT.

The USA recently shut down its last military base in the Phillippines, but US soldiers were stationed there from 1898 to 2020.

And as with many soldiers, their primary contact with women in a foreign country was with prostitutes, and that mean that many more generations of American men who thought of Asian women as low-budget whores. I really wonder how much of the south Asia mass prostitution industry originated with American soldiers.

Way more convenient to have your cheap Asian hooker, sourced from human trafficking, in the US than to travel to Bangkok.

- Donald Trump

In my Midwestern Catholic High School, in world history we learned about camp followers. I'm not putting any of this stuff in quotes for you.

We were taught Asian women were dealt out to Asian men like a dehydrated meal. It was confusing and our parents didn't have a settling word to say. Their generation never had a world history class.

I'm an old American.

[quote]We were taught Asian women were dealt out to Asian men like a dehydrated meal.

No, no. Only Korean, Filipino, and Chinese women; only Japanese men.

There was one a few years ago that was tipped off because they’d been throwing the condoms into the toilet and it backed up the entire mall’s sewage system.

Unloved incels just blame everyone and everything except themselves and their wretched parents. Fuck them piece of shit and their excuses should be thrown in the shitter right away.

"Back to Asians and the OP's question: the Asian businesswomen I have met have been, almost to a woman, ferocious, far more ruthless than any of the men (who remain in their heart of hearts obsessed with video-gaming)."

Wow. I guess they are just asking to be shot.... and it would be justified. Just say you had a bad day.

I note that all these mass shooters are ugly as shit. Ugly white men should be euthanized. Problem solved.

Blaming Stanley Kubrick for anti-Asian "racism" is antisemitism.

R71, no, it's not and no one is saying he's the ONLY person who should be blamed

R55 Oh please, for every white man 'hypersexualizing' an oriental woman, there is an another oriental woman counting the cash.

I am the Wife of Mao Tse-Tung! I speak according the The Book! Me so Horny! Me Love You Long Time!

The women who died ranged from 50’s to 70’s.

Not sure this was a sex parlor

I was surprised by their ages. Could someone tell naive little me why a recently married couple were there having separate... massages?

GIs raped likely thousands of Vietnamese women and children during the Vietnam war so....... just another effect of white supremacy.

R76, because it was a real massage parlor.

I’ve been to some in California—massages a dirt cheap and you actually get..wait for it...massages!

These places appeal to straight married guys for a reason that should be super obvious to gay men, Eldergays in particular.: a hand job is safe sex. There's little to no chance of an STD being transmitted, and many of these guys convince themselves that it's no worse than getting a lap dance at a strip club. (While extra money will get more than a handy, that's all a lot of these guys want.)

They like that the Asian women play act that they are funny and strong and impressive and have big dicks. Plus they do get an actual massage out of it.

And yes, the people doing the exploiting are other Asians, often women.

The Washington Post has all the details on the spas in question, the prostitution arrests that were made in them, their listings in massage parlor review guides, etc.

Read the article I just posted at R79, R78

It was not a "legitimate massage parlor", though the women all give actual massages first, hence the term "happy ending" and there are guys who just want a massage from a pretty girl, not any sort of happy ending. (Or they provide their own happy ending...)

The couple R76 mentions...that's complicated. He supposedly had been there before. Was he bringing his wife to prove to her that it was a legit place and not a rub'n'tug? We likely will never know.

If the guy was addicted to happy ending massages, he's going about this all wrong. Just like you don't bite the hand that feeds you, you should shoot the hand that beats you off.

Am I a bad person for being embarrassed that the country is honoring dead prostitutes?

They seem to be awfully old for prostitutes.

Is a happy ending from a 70 year old woman really all that happy?

Back in 2019.

R82, yes, you’re a bad person

[quote] People talk about black on black crime, but the way Asians mistreat each other is even worse.

Whites treat each other far worse. See WW1 & WW2. And the 1990s Serb Croat Bosnian War. And the various wars in the Caucasus involving places like Georgia. And white on white crime, especially financial crimes.

[quote] We were taught Asian women were dealt out to Asian men like a dehydrated meal. It was confusing and our parents didn't have a settling word to say

You are not American & it’s pretty obvious from your ridiculous use of English.

The older women may have been the "managers" in charge of overseeing the younger masseuses, or the former could have been the actual spa owners.

Couples' massages are fairly popular in legitimate spas.

r11, "Me love you long time" was from Full Metal Jacket

Was it first here or did Gustav Hasford really hear that when he was in Vietnam?

do "managers" = pimps?

Apparently, they're all loving mothers, hard-working immigrants and dutiful wives and their loss is deeply felt . The sex spa framing was unfortunate for making them look like whores. The Young Asian spa appears to be an actual massage facility. Gold spa, not so much.

No matter what the third-wavers claim, this story shows (if nothing else) that for many of these women, "sex work" is not work like any other kind of work.

They're indentured servants, essentially.

How many times do I have to FF a thread before it grays out?

Cartman

[quote] Am I a bad person for being embarrassed that the country is honoring dead prostitutes?

I’m embarrassed that every organization is posting “We don’t support Asian hate” notices and memes online. Duh, everyone would’ve thought you did, thank god you cleared that up. It’s the new Posting The Black Square.

The killer’s motivations are so obvious, and they have nothing to do with white supremacy terrorism/hatred of Asians. He could’ve gone to a Chinese restaurant. I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that he only shot up massage parlors, one of which was a front for prostitution. The internet is making this country so fucking stupid.

[Quote] The killer’s motivations are so obvious

Really? I’ll let the Atlanta Police know you have the answer so they can stop investigating

[quote] Really? I’ll let the Atlanta Police know you have the answer so they can stop investigating

It’s an open and shut case, and if you really want to disagree with me, we can meet back here after he’s charged and the prosecution presents their case, and we’ll see if I’m right.

Me So Horny was popularized by the rap track by 2 Live Crew, with a sample from Full Metal Jacket. Perhaps white men filmmakers and black musicians are fetishizing Asian women.

This guy was a nutcase ashamed he wanted pussy because he was kookoo Christian. Easiest hookers to find and not leave an Internet trail are the massage “spas”. The straight ABS, as it were. He had a mental break, and his shame caused him to lash out.

They can treat his mental health in jail, because he shouldn’t be walking the streets .

This is a complex story to report on in today's environment.

These places were brothels and it appears that the women who worked there were kept under close watch (via WaPost story at R79)

Worse still, the people exploiting them for sex work were also Asians, even Asian women.

But... that should not make it okay to harm them, shame them or kill them.

Many Eldergays on DL are sensitive to any discussion of this because they remember the days when gay bashing was considered okay because the victim was a flaming gay man and what did you expect.

It's hard for Asian groups because they want to make this the centerpiece of a legitimate gripe about Trump-inspired hatred but they have unfortunate victims

So points to WaPo for covering the story in a sensitive way and raspberries to the NYT for ignoring the fact that they were sex workers being exploited by other Asians.

[quote] It's hard for Asian groups because they want to make this the centerpiece of a legitimate gripe about Trump-inspired hatred but they have unfortunate victims

It has nothing to do with Trump, is the thing, and neither do all the black-on-Asian crimes.

R82 No, you're not a bad person. I think the mawkish virtue-signalling has jumped the shark with this one. They were just some whores. It's sad for their families, and of course the police must investigate as they would any other murder, but flags at half-mast and a presidential visit? Come on, Americans, you are embarrassing yourselves.

R28 here:

For those wondering about the older women. They're the ones who give the legit massages. The younger girls are the ones who are usually in the other rooms.

I know this from the woman I know who got legit massages at the place that got raided. She said the woman who gave her a massage had to be in her late 60s/early 70s and that she was like a gymnast in how good she was at giving (legit) massages. She also recalled a middle aged guy who walked in and was clearly not there for a hot stone massage.

These places usually run as both a legit and illegitimate operation.

Every massage place I know is using asian women. I go to chain massage places because I think they have to be legit. I only get legit massages but I don't want someone who just gave a rub and tuck to now work on me.

r103. I'll piggyback on what you're saying- I had an older Thai lady tell me that the older women go to massage school because they genuinely want to help people- the younger ones just go into it and barely learn, because it's easy money.

I've never seen a story so badly covered. Were these legitimate spas (which they seem to be based on the ages of the women he killed) or were they fronts for prostitution? Did he frequent these places for sex or is that a untrue rumor?

All the media wants to talk about is anti-Asian violence. But the facts of this case don't seem to be of any importance.

Yes, they were sex workers. So what? Middle aged women, many with limited language skills, trying to support a family. Like most sex workers, male or female, they generally have few economic options. And as sex work goes, masseuse is pretty low risk. Until a self-loathing sex-shamed fundie misogynist (or when gays are targeted, homophobe) in a state with no limits on gun sales goes on a murderous rampage. The racism is just icing.

R106, they give both legit massages and happy endings, ie, hand jobs.

I blame Trump for turning the media into a full time propaganda arm. Everything became either pro or anti Trump 24/7. The facts are just not very important anymore.

[quote] The racism is just icing.

But there may not actually be any racism here. That’s why people are questioning the media coverage and asking the sort of questions about the massage parlors you see in this thread.

The story could be getting covered in completely the wrong way, warping everyone’s perception of race in the U.S. I saw on TV last night an Asian-American woman (member of Congress perhaps, or just an activist) crying because she was so worried about her people being under attack here.

The same thing happened with George Floyd. A lot of black people now think that there’s a *very good chance* that they’ll be shot to death for no reason any time they encounter a cop. Couldn’t be further from the truth. When Amy Cooper called the cops on Christian Cooper in Central Park, every comment online was like “That was attempted murder! She was trying to get him killed!” which was fucking retarded, of course. Police in NYC have hundreds of interactions with black people every day. Because of the media coverage of Floyd/BLM, etc., and the way the public bought into it all, we look like a country of insane hysterics.

For fuck sake, R110. People seem to need to bend over backwards to rationalize these attacks as not intertwined with bigotry. By every measure, anti-Asian attacks have increased by a huge factor since the anti-Asian COVID-driven rhetoric began. You don't need to conduct a study to connect the dots here.

R110: And if you don't see the racism in Amy Cooper's et al's attacks, you are beyond help. Seriously.

Anti-Asian violence has spiralled out of control but this case looks more like an ugly woman-hater exacting revenge on prostitutes than some racist hate murders.

Do you really not get that these antipathies overlap and compound each other? The--pardon the expression--academic word for it is "intersectionality". Jargon aside, it's not that hard to figure out that if you are, say, gay and black, or gay and black and a drag queen, you are more likely to be gay bashed than a white gay guy in a suit. Same applies to women/sex workers/asians. It's not either-or, its compounding.

R112, yes Amy Cooper’s intention was racist—where in my reply did I write that it wasn’t? But is plainly not true that Chris’s life was in danger just because he was a black man and she called the cops. That was my point. You would only believe his life was in danger if you sincerely believed that unarmed black people get killed by police all the time. They absolutely do not.

It’s just like the lie that there’s an “epidemic” of murders of trans people. There most certainly is not.

Okay, R114, so let’s say racism was an element in this case because of the Law Of Intersectionality. How do you stop it?

R111 What absolute nonsense. How much is the CCP paying you?

The rise in obesity and frau attitudes in western society has definitely boosted the appeal of Asian women for heterosexual men.

I know it's only personal experience, but my two brothers were both married to anglo women who eventually became nagging, disagreeable fraus when my brothers did everything to keep them happy. Eventually, both left them for Asian women and are much happier 7 or so years later. Both of their now wives want to make the family and their respective business' work. And according to my brother his wife "knows that at the end of the day all men like a good fuck without having to beg for it".

Forgive me for being cynical, but I don't for a moment believe that this anti hate campaign is sincere in the slightest. Especially after being told that criticizing the Chinese government is racist. Or that speculating about the origins or the Coronavirus and the extent of the coverup is not allowed. This is all politically motivated. DLers should be smarter than to buy this forced lie.

Just fuck off, OP.

R118, your brothers sound very problematic, and those Asian women would not be making them so happy and be so ambitious themselves without the US’s racist attitudes toward and sexualization of them. It sounds disgraceful.

Can they do nails instead of handjobs? Problem solved.

[quote]Can they do nails instead of handjobs? Problem solved.

You mean your manicurist doesn't do happy endings? Madge always does.

[R121] Both brothers met their now wives while living oveseas in Asian countries and were married there. Both families continue to live there, so their wives' attitudes towards family/spouses had nothing to do with social politics in the USA.

Gal here. I also get legit massages at these places.

Anna May Wong

Nancy Kwan in Flower Drum Song.

Mrs. Livingston from The Courtship of Eddie's Father.

Charlie Chan.

These are the Orientals of long ago.

Say what you will about Mickey Rooney, but his sensitive and nuanced portrayal of Mr Yunioshi in Breakfast at Tiffany's still stands as the definitive film treatment of the Asian-American experience.

R121 Yes, how very dare they be happy in their interracial marriages? How dare they?

R102 WRONG TAKE! Is this anti asian racism? I can't say (my guess would be no, incel-motivated seems most likely) but the police will hopefully do the investigating the media is ignoring en masse. However, those women were american/residents and deserve to have their stories for, and an 8 person mass shooting is news anyway. The racist angle is premature but that the story is being reported is just.

[Quote] A lot of black people now think that there’s a *very good chance* that they’ll be shot to death for no reason any time they encounter a cop. Couldn’t be further from the truth.

Really? The reason his death resonated is blacks have been placed in that situation over and over. One wrong move and the police shoot you.

[Quote] A lot of black people now think that there’s a *very good chance* that they’ll be shot to death for no reason any time they encounter a cop. Couldn’t be further from the truths

White-splaining

[Quote] But is plainly not true that Chris’s life was in danger just because he was a black man and she called the cops.

Um, you’re obviously not black.

Whenever you’re black in a racist society and one guy has a gun, you’re in danger

[quote] Really? The reason his death resonated is blacks have been placed in that situation over and over. One wrong move and the police shoot you

Over and over? How many times? How many unarmed black people have been shot just for making “one wrong move”?

Do you have any sense of scale/proportion? How many times have unarmed white people been shot by police just for making one wrong move?

R130 One wrong move like violently resisting arrest and even trying to grab the cop's gun? Wrong moves like that, you mean?