Elliot Page Says His Top Surgery Was 'Not Only Life-Changing But Lifesaving'

Which brings us back to a point Page emphasized throughout his conversation with Time, that communities need to do more to educate themselves about trans individuals and their experiences, speak out against the systemic inequality that endangers them and collaborate with them to save more trans lives: “My privilege has allowed me to have resources to get through and to be where I am today,” he said. “And of course I want to use that privilege and platform to help in the ways I can.”

This thread will end in tears!

Show us your tits!

[Quote] Real or perceived stigma and discrimination The 'or' is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

I'll try again:

[Quote] Real or perceived stigma and discrimination

The 'or' is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.

Too bad: she had a nice, perky little set.

Top surgery = mental illness

Remember when she was "dating" Alexander Skarsgard?

Hee.

[quote] The biggest barrier both to safe hormonal therapy and to appropriate general medical care for transgender patients is the lack of access to care.

Hopefully Milo can help.

Oh please. SHE still looks like a girl.

[quote] Remember when she was "dating" Alexander Skarsgard?

He's the reason she turned trans!

Jesus Christ, this is a single sentence:

“The choice to get a surgery (which, as Page reminds, is an experience not universal to all trans folks) and the choice to disclose it is something private and intimate and generally no one’s business but the individual considering surgery — and it’s important to make sure that there’s a balance between representation conversations (i.e. showing other trans folks just one of the numerous hopeful options they can have in their lives), realistic access conversations (the average cost of surgery can be unaffordable and complicated to access for many trans individuals) and a reminder that the obsession and hyper-fixation on trans bodies and speculation about what they do or do not look like can be highly invasive at best and at-worst violent.”

What is this obsession with saying “folks” instead of “people?” Is declaring another benign noun verboten every week just a power move?

Suicided by Halloween.

Over/under she never gets the bottom surgery?

Ugh.

[quote] Over/under she never gets the bottom surgery?

That's the part I don't get.

Why even bother doing the top, if you're not going to do the bottom?

[quote] The biggest barrier both to safe hormonal therapy and to appropriate general medical care for transgender patients is the lack of access to care.

Oh bullshit. There are women who’ve reported getting HRT scripts from Planned Parenthood on the first visit.

There is going to be so much regret over these procedures a decade from now.

As a lesbian I don’t know whether to laugh, cry, or scoff.

She’s older than me and she’s loaded, plus she’s been exposed to insider elite circles. I feel like she should know better than this.

He's cute, but he'll never have a real dick.

Her life is media and the media forces this on gays and lesbians. She probably feels she had no other choice but to transition.

[quote] she

he

[quote]he

hee hee hee

[quote]hee hee hee

Hahahaha

I have never seen ANYONE look more uncomfortable on a Vanity Fair cover than Ellen Page, so I think it’s true.

So, lifesaving to remove your tits.....but alright to deal with a bleeding twat. OKAY!

R17, For the beach. Not joking.

We get it, Elliot. You’re so, so special.

But R27, the whole point of transitioning is because trans people supposedly HATE looking at their genitalia, because they feel like it's the "wrong equipment" for their body.

So if that's the case, we should assume that a TRUE trans person would want to get the surgery right away. Right?

Yet most of these supposed trans people, keep their original equipment.

It doesn't make sense.

Any doctor who would remove healthy body parts like that should lose their license.

He reminds of the kid from Jeepers Creepers.

r17 maybe because there is no such thing as getting a dick? Otherwise 'cis' men would be doing it too, to get a bigger dick. FTMs cant get a functioning penis. While You can easily 'add' testosterone (making FTMs generally more 'passable'), and its very difficult to take away (making post pubertal MTFs very clockable unless they have the holy grail of genetics - short, wide hips etc etc). But MTFs have far more functional, and closer resembling to cis woman genitals after 'bottom surgery'. Barely any FTMs have bottom surgery, as a) most of the 'gay' ones want cock in their pussy, and b) most know the outcome of phalloplasty's are crap.

Page simply looks like a teen girl cosplaying as a teen boy. Sorry, they do.

SS “doctor” Josef Mengele is laughing in his grave.

(By the way, he was never caught.)

I always hated dressing "girly" -- still do. So I never have (except for the occasional job interview).

That sure as fuck doesn't make me a man -- and neither is she.

isn't Elliott 4 ft 10 or something? That's one tiny, tiny man.

[quote] He reminds of the kid from Jeepers Creepers.

Justin Long? Lol.

[quote] isn't Elliott 4 ft 10 or something? That's one tiny, tiny man.

Yup. I'm reposting the pic at R8, just as a point of reference.

Don't the vast majority of MTF transgendered people keep their penises?

I was told most do. While surgery can construct a vagina, it's far more difficult for someone to orgasm if they remove their penis and construct a vagina.

[quote] Don't the vast majority of MTF transgendered people keep their penises?

Ask Bruce Jenner.

[quote]I always hated dressing "girly" -- still do.

You are exactly who they target. You’re lucky you’re not a teen today, people would start telling you you’re a “male”, not female.

He can play Danny devitos son now or do the life story of mason Reese.

R38 PLEASANT PEANUT CLIT!

[quote]That's the part I don't get. Why even bother doing the top, if you're not going to do the bottom?

R17, I'm just going to assume you're an idiot, because the answer is pretty damn obvious: the top surgery is vastly simpler, safer, easier, more 'visible', cheaper, with better outcomes, than "bottom" surgery is. It's also easier to 'fix' if it doesn't turn out right, and easier to 'reverse' should the need arise (it's easier to commit to doing something if you know you can undo it later).

This isn't rocket science.

Creepy and she looks like a little guy.

There’s going to be a whole generation of teeny tiny little men running around.

Elliot looks like a small, barely pubescent boy.

Elliot, call me. I have a "part" for you.

Does this make Alexander Skarsgård gay?

She could star in a remake of The Color of Night.

Lmao R47.

"Top surgery."

She had a double mastectomy. Why can't that term be used?

OOOOOOOOOOOH, R49.

Now you've done it!

[quote] While surgery can construct a vagina

No doctor can “construct” a cock or a vagina, R38.

Cocks & vaginas are *functional, moving, blood-pumping* body organs. Like a tongue. No one can “construct” a tongue.

A dangling *clump of thigh tissue* sewn onto the pelvis ain’t a “cock”. A dead-end *wound* near the pelvis ain’t a “vagina”.

Wow, R51.

That was WAY harsh.

Could they not have used another photo that doesn't have his dog's asshole ready for its close-up?

“Top surgery?” I’m assuming that means breast tissue and skin removal? Why not just call it “breast removal?”

Seems to have been a rather minor surgery.

Ridiculous creature.

[quote] She could star in a remake of The Color of Night.

Or a remake of Lucas (1986) as the title character.

This won’t be popular but further to R51’s point, there won’t be any real gender surgery until doctors can create functioning organs. I’m sure they will, at some point. But for now, she’s still got a vagina, still menstruates, still can get cramps, still can get pregnant, still can have vaginal sex or be raped....in other words, she is a woman.

[quote] She could star in a remake of The Color of Night.

[quote] Or a remake of Lucas (1986) as the title character.

And I could star as the sexy red-haired high school love interest!

Lucas! Yes! Lmao!

That is one hideous haircut Eliot has on the cover of Newsweek. Click below to see the cover.

Eliot looks so sad and distressed.

I am a lesbian who played with "boy's toys" as a kid and played sports and was considered a "tomboy." I HATED wearing girly clothes even though my mom made me. Dresses and high heels? Um, torture. I never looked natural in those kinds of digs.

I have never thought for one second that I was a boy. Nor would I ever give up my breasts for the hell of it. Breasts are very sensitive and part of what makes sex great is having them. I'm sad she felt she needed to deny herself that kind of pleasure simply to fit in a some dude. Why does she presume to know what it's like to be a man? She cannot possibly know what that is like, nor can anyone else imagine what it would be like to be the opposite sex. It's a fantasy and any fantasy that can only be fulfilled by self mutilation becomes a fetish. That's what trans is. Instead of changing the body to fit the mind, why not change the mind to fit the body? Seems far more logical and much less painful. The idea that one can change their gender is some woo woo bullshit. Cross dressers seem to know this and embrace it. I mean, at least with cosplay you don't have to take drugs that can harm you for life.

typo correction: Elliot ^^^

Well said, R62.

I totally agree with you.

Is she still into guys?

So what will happen on Umbrella Academy? Will he still play Vanya or what?

[quote]Elliot Page Says His Top Surgery Was 'Not Only Life-Changing But Lifesaving'

Elliot Page Says His Female Genital Mutilation Was 'Not Only Life-Changing But Disfiguring'

Lol R65.

Great question.

Taking a knife to sex parts is flat out disturbing, now matter how it's rationalized.

[quote]I have never thought for one second that I was a boy. Nor would I ever give up my breasts for the hell of it.

But it’s not really what you’re thinking anymore today, it’s what their thinking FOR you, and telling you who you are. And before you know it, you’re diagnosed gender dysphoric.

[quote] I'm sad she felt she needed to deny herself that kind of pleasure simply to fit in a some dude.

I agree in principle R62, but I won't presume to know exactly how they feel.

This whole transition has really aged her face.

[quote]disclosing that he was a transgender man (who used he/they pronouns)...

Can someone explain to me what the mutha fuck that bullshit is about?

Wrinkles are masculine.

More bottoms should get Top surgery.

[quote]I am a lesbian who played with "boy's toys" as a kid and played sports and was considered a "tomboy."

You couldn’t get away with this today. You’d be considered a “boy”.

Ellen Page is only 34! She looks at least 40 now and has no muscles at all. Her arms are those of a ten year old boy. She needs the gym and mega doses of steroid, plus filler in her face.

I feel sorry for the lesbian wife, who found herself married to someone who hacked off the tits and now claims to be a man.

[quote]He said he struggled with “how to explain to people that even though [I was] an actor, just putting on a T-shirt cut for a woman would make me so unwell”

This is pure MADNESS!

Why do we put up with the celebration of this sad mental illness.

R72, I've noticed transmen often look older than they really are. There is a prominent transman in my city, he used to be a cute lesbian, now he's an old, bald man.

r17 because it was tribute to Angelina Jolie.

Do NOT support Elliot...."ELLIOT" worked with Bryan Singer. Never once denounced him, and instead kept working with him. I have zero sympathy for Ellen. And she also looks like a weird boy....Where was Ellen when REAL males were accusing her friend Bryan Singer?

It would be wise to allow Page to live a comfortable life in any chosen corporal iteration. It’s not the business of anyone else to interfere in that matter.

Ellen's wife divorced her last year. Who can blame her?

Since merely seeing one's deadname can result in SUICIDAL THOUGHTS AND EXTREME DYSPHORIA, I assume Elliot isn't going on the Ellen DeGeneres show.

[quote] Over/under she never gets the bottom surgery? That's the part I don't get. Why even bother doing the top, if you're not going to do the bottom?

So if you don’t do the bottom surgery, and your on all of the hormone therapies, do you dry up down there, and basically become unusable? Does the vag still remain self lubricating

She seems to have had surgery to flattent the cute pointed angles of her face and make it look more masculine but it's aged her ten years.

Why not, r71? They are presuming what it feels like to be an opposite sex than they were born. I'm curious as to how they just "know" they are trans. Is it just because they don't feel like they fit into traditional gender roles? It sure seems that way. At this point in history, no one is making anyone fit in to gender roles unless they are still a child and the parents are weirdos and even then, most parents today are aware that the whole idea that pink is for girls and blue is for boys is bullshit. So I'm curious how, as an adult, they feel they have to conform to those gender roles they are fighting against in order to feel normal. So you don't want to wear dresses and high heels and make up? Absolutely no one is making you. You don't want to wear men's clothes and be masculine? Who's making you? You can put on a dress or put on some masculine clothing whenever you wish. No need to claim to be the opposite gender to feel accepted. No need to mutilate your body and make a proclamation. And r83, if it's her business, why go public with it in the first place.? She can do what she wants but if she's going to be some "role model" for girls who don't like to wear dresses and are now being told they are trans instead of just lesbians, she needs to be asked some hard questions.

I’m a 53 year old gay man (but everybody says I look 22 😉) and I have no understanding of all this Trans business. But I find it incredibly sad to see so many closed minded gays/lesbians posting on the Trans threads at DL. We’ve barely just escaped our own diagnoses of mental illness. 25 years ago society labeled us unfit: we were crossdressers, pedophiles, molestation survivors with unresolved daddy issues. We needed conversion therapy (or worse).

I don’t understand Trans - but I do understand bigotry. Bigotry is all too familiar. Bigotry is trying to silence someone from expressing their identity because of how that would make YOU feel. News-break: It has nothing to do with you. Let people be.

[quote]Don't the vast majority of MTF transgendered people keep their penises?

Yes, because otherwise no one will have sex with them.

R66 When Elliot publicly came out as transgender, they said that nothing will change in regards to playing Vanya.

someone I know got bottom surgery (FTM) at least 10 years ago and it was not a very successful surgery. can't hold down a job coz takes a long time to pee. someone told me it was 30min but I wasn't sure if that was for real or just exaggeration, you know how stories get passed around and details vary.

“how to explain to people that even though [I was] an actor, just putting on a T-shirt cut for a woman would make me so unwell”

Guess what? I hate women's t shirts because they are cut differently. They have these weird sleeves cut on an angle so that if your arms aren't perfect, you look ridiculous. Ellen, you could have just bought men's Tshirts. They are cheaper anyway and fit better and wearing them doesn't make me any less of a woman.

If I had a female body, I would be the biggest slut in town. My pussy would be raw from hours of countless encounters. Granted, obviously I would rather have a penis, the most important part of being a human being, but if I didn’t have one to begin with, I would ignore the dysphoria and lay naked on the pool table in every straight dive in town.

Paul—do you feel the same about ex-gays?

[quote]We needed conversion therapy (or worse).

Needed? (Past tense?)

ELLIOT likes working with her friend Bryan Singer........"Bryan Singer, who stands accused of sexual assault on a minor, Ellen acknowledges that the allegations are "super, super disturbing. … I guess the truth will come out in the way that it does, but it's hard to hear about someone being in that situation, someone you like working with." .........Did she forget to stick up for the accusers---who were REAL males?

Will Elliot accessorize his double mastectomy with this chic little number?

[quote] there won’t be any real gender surgery until doctors can create functioning organs. I’m sure they will, at some point.

No, they won’t, R58.

It’s like the idea that doctors will create ‘functioning feathery wings’ for humans, sew on those wings to our backs - and expect our bodies to magically ‘flap’ those wings in order to fly. It just won’t happen. Because our bodies *lack* the DNA coding / DNA blueprint & *complex* web of internal nerve connections to make those wings work. Moreover, even our brains are not wired to make surgically attached ‘wings’ flap & work.

By the same token, human females *fundamentally* lack the DNA blueprint, internal organ structure & brain-to-nerve-ending neurological signals to make a cock work. (And same goes for a guy and a ‘dead-end wound’ - it will never become a self-contracting vagina).

Even if you try to surgically attach a real-organ cock (say, from a dead guy) to a female - it just won’t work. Because females *lack* the incredibly complex DNA setup & intricate neurological-pathway system which allows the brain to *communicate* with a cock.

[quote] Show us your tits!

*sigh* Andy Cohen was right about Datalounge.

[quote]Because females *lack* the incredibly complex DNA setup & intricate neurological-pathway system which allows the brain to *communicate* with a cock.

In fairness, I'm a male and my cock-brain communication has never been that good.

Hence several of my most regrettable life decisions.

Paul, when trans is being used as the newest gay conversion therapy and transwomen are wanting to be included in lesbian spaces and wanting to date lesbians and threatening us if we don't suck their "lady dicks" I do have an issue. Ellen Page was a lesbian...until she wasn't. Same with Chastity Bono. This conveys the message that because they don't fit in as women and because they love women, they must be men and it is highly dangerous to the lesbian community. It's giving credence to the old trope that one of the women in a lesbian relationship must be "the man." Young lesbian women are now being told they are really men or "non binary" because how could they possibly just be a woman who loves a woman? I hope she's happier as a man, but I really wish someone had told her it was perfectly fine to be the kind of woman she was.

Why is "ELLIOT" dressing like an urban teen who is about to break out into a rap song?

Elliot is pushing 40.

[quote] *sigh* Andy Cohen was right about Datalounge.

Au contraire. DL was right about cokehead Andy Cohen, R100.

Whatever they want to do just as long as they aren't commiting suicide. Whatever you want to do. Do you. I don't care either way.

Amen, sister (R34)

Did she save those pimples she called tits? I'm sure the surgeon had to spend hours removing those jugs.

[quote]Whatever they want to do just as long as they aren't commiting suicide.

Just wait.

He is going to start looking really gross when the hormones really kick in and the skin becomes more "masculine" (bigger pores, rougher) and then he goes bald.

All the FTMs I know (3 or 4) are all male pattern balding and have terrible skin.

So she was going to end her life because she had tiny breasts? Does that not speak to a mental illness that is greater than her appearance?

She is so tiny. Why would anyone ‘choose’ to be a tiny girly-looking man with no dick?

That makes their argument that this is not a ‘choice’ make more sense to me.

[quote]So she was going to end her life because she had tiny breasts?

She probably could have removed them herself at home with some Compound W.

[quote]That makes their argument that this is not a ‘choice’ make more sense to me.

It’s “better” to be a “guy”. “Heterosexual guy”.

Could they not have been like, ok folks, I'm a dude now, without carving into theyself?

[quote]All the FTMs I know (3 or 4) are all male pattern balding and have terrible skin.

I wonder why that is. There's an actor on a Nickelodeon series who is FTM and looks like Bob Hoskins.

Am really creeped out by people like Gigi Gorgeous who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to be a hot chick. Most women don't have that level of ambition. Remembering my fat slob of a sexually harassing boss flirting with an ex-employee he had known as a guy. Maybe it was the hot pants and fish nets that did it for him.

Another Gay person who thinks that simply saying "I am gay" should be worthy of adulation, no matter how little they have done for the Gay Community. She and Mayor Pete are a joke...

r115 That's the variety i usually see, they bind their tits as best as they can. They probably think they're fooling people. I'm guessing it helps to have thousands of dollars to be able to get the hormones and cut off the breasts and that stupid knob they call a penis.

Agree R99

R118 Is she now a gay male or a heterosexual one?

Someone needs to tell ELLIOT that dressing like 18 year old Eminem ---when you look 40---is even weirder...

[r95] I do. I may not understand or support their decision but I support their right to make that decision for themselves. There are enough obstacles to living - may I not be one additional.

r122 Not hard to figure out, she'll want to relive her teens/twenties

Would a smile hurt? Still gloom and doom. I thought he was happy now, it's the fucking cover of Time Magazine.

[quote] There's an actor on a Nickelodeon series who is FTM and looks like Bob Hoskins.

He also kind of looks like David Suchet playing Hercules Poirot as an old man.

[quote] just putting on a T-shirt cut for a woman would make me so unwell

I see Lyme disease and fibromyalgia in its future, tits or no tits.

This is a sad, pathetic miserable-looking human, regardless of its gender,

R128, that, too.

One of the FTMs I know has an Instagram full of his bare-chested photos at the beach, smiling, laughing, like a Phucomol commercial.

I really try to be supportive and an ally to our trans brothers and sisters, even though I scratch my head at a lot of it. And those times when I say to myself that I don't get this, I try to remember that there are straight people who think the same way about me being gay and then I try to do better. I hope that Elliot is finally at peace and happy.

I guess this means Mindy Cohn is a man, too.

We are losing the fucking thread. Just because you can use plastic surgery to fucking change yourself, does NOT MEAN you are magically the opposite gender. You are not and never will be. THIS IS INSANITY. Ellen Paige is a DEEPLY DISTURBED INDIVIDUAL suffering from extreme gender dysphoria. The media is literally celebrating an insane person.

"... just putting on a T-shirt cut for a woman would make me so unwell"

Maybe she's just a lesbian transvestite?

R116

Don't men inherit balding from their mothers? If no, that implies the gene is carried on the X chromosome, and women have two of those, doubling their chances of baldness if they go on testosterone.

I don't get how wearing a women's T-shirt and having tiny titties makes him want to kill himself, yet he is OK with the stinky puss between his legs.

Somebody explain, please.

[quote]The idea that one can change their gender is some woo woo bullshit. Cross dressers seem to know this and embrace it.

They used to.

[quote]I really try to be supportive and an ally to our trans brothers and sisters,

Enough.

"Page simply looks like a teen girl cosplaying as a teen boy. Sorry, they do."

More like an in her thirties cosplaying as a teen boy.

Sadly, they will never, EVER, pass as an adult male. Ellen Page was a very small for a white woman, Elliot Page is going to be painfully tiny for an adult man, so small and slight that there isn't a hope of passing.

Even RuPauls Drag Race isn't safe anymore. "Out Trans Male Contestant"---what?....I have watched every episode this season and I have no idea if this is a boy or a girl or a girl who wishes she were a drag queen?....I expected better than this from Rupaul...

Anybody who feels suicidal because they wear a t shirt or don’t have their breasts removed is too mentally fragile to be getting cosmetic surgery. Or doing much of anything but getting therapy. How can any doctor hear this and think it’s okay to operate first and have therapy later? Aren’t they still paying malpractice premiums? What if he commits suicide later because this didn’t solve all his problems after all? Can the doctor be sued by his family? This seems like a really risky surgery from the liability point of view.

R110, I think he’s bald now. Why all the hoods, baseball caps and head coverings? In the Time article, there’s another picture of him in a chair sideways. No part anywhere in the hair that’s visible. It looks like a full hairpiece.

R141 Not bald. Caesar haircut that’s cute on real boys.

Puberty was “pure hell” LOL. Well, don’t be human then... shit!! Raving LUNACY.

She never did anything good after Juno, anyway. I remember she did the drew Barrymore roller skate movie and there was an article with drew going on and on about how sexually attracted she was to Ellen LOL. Ellen and Alia shawkat!!

R142, look from this angle. No part, the back of the hairline looks too bulky and not tapered down to the skin.

I was born this way!!

Now cut off my tits.

R141

I think the haircut is meant to cover up the fivehead, which might be the only masculine thing about Page's appearance at this stage. But if HRT is in the cards, I'm sure the hairline will retreat very fast.

I get those who want to be an ally, want to let Elliot and other trans folks make their own choices. It's their lives/bodies, of course they can do want they want and we should be kind.

What a lot of us react to is the PR push in (for me) the wrong direction. He/they are on the cover of Time magazine normalizing the idea that wearing a women's t-shirt makes one mentally unwell and that elective bodily mutilation and life-long hormone treatment is life-saving.

I legitimately wonder if Ellen/Elliot eating a steak once in a while would have prevented most of this drama.

DL is a fucking cesspool.

Let these freaks do this to themselves but keep them away from gay children. They'll trans every single one of them if they get the chance.

R151, don’t you mean doctors? Doctors are making these decisions. Trans people listen to them. Why not take your anger out in the medical community?

R148, if that’s true then in ten years you’ll hear a million de-transition stories and lawsuits. The bottom line is people are going to do what they want. It’s why we don’t ban people from getting cosmetic surgery.

An actress with some measurable albeit brief acclaim 14 years ago announces to the world that she’s alarmingly mentally ill and always has been.

[quote]Show us your tits!

They’re in the basement in a pickle jar.

So her tits are off? Well, residual benefit is, she less likely to get breast cancer.

Seems to me to be a career-killing move. Who’s going to hire an obvious woman for a man’s role? But that’s not my business.

I haven’t read the whole thread yet — wonder if the usual psycho one-note trans-hating lesbians are crawling all over this thread like they do the transwomen ones. Something tells me they’re not.

So her tits are off? Well, residual benefit is, she less likely to get breast cancer

And if she removes her brain, she's less likely to get brain cancer.

It’s true that he/she can do whatever they want, and we shouldn’t make *their* lives more difficult, but we also shouldn’t allow the media to elevate/glorify these stories, for the “simple” reason that there is a social contagion that comes attached, which seems to be affecting teenage girls, many of whom are autistic.

Yeah, there will be lots of lawsuits. They should ruin their bodies and lives and deal with the agony later. Who cares? Fuck em! And who cares about all the young people they influence, who will then suffer the same fate? Fuck em!

So, do we care about this and express our concerns. Or do we shut up, when we know that staying quiet will perpetuate this tragic madness. Because that’s the reality here.

" ... just putting on a T-shirt cut for a woman would make me so unwell”

You've got serious mental problems. Claiming you're a man won't fix them.

Well said at r157.

R157 The social contagion is transphobia, bitch.

LOL@160

She’d get work in a Spielberg movie.

Would he play the alien or Elliot in" E.T.2 And the Raiders of the Lost Parts"?

So, a haircut and a tit chop makes this all good for her little fee fees. From the waist up, it's all good. Does she just ignore her cunt? Does she close her eyes when she droos her jeans and sits to piss? Does that trigger her ass at all??? And if a womans cut shirt is so horrifying, just stay home in the fetal position all day. Honest to God..Biuy a mens shirt at target you stupid hoe.

AVOID the phrase "born a woman" when referring to Page. If it is necessary to describe for your audience what it means to be transgender, consider: "Elliot Page was designated as female on his birth certificate, but is now living as his authentic self."

In the Name of All That's Holy....WTF

[quote]We are losing the fucking thread. Just because you can use plastic surgery to fucking change yourself, does NOT MEAN you are magically the opposite gender. You are not and never will be. THIS IS INSANITY. Ellen Paige is a DEEPLY DISTURBED INDIVIDUAL suffering from extreme gender dysphoria. The media is literally celebrating an insane person.

Dear fellow Faggots. Up until 1973 and in most people's lifetime here, Homosexuality was officially deemed a mental illness but then humanly reduced to a "sexual orientation disturbance". Oh and it was once illegal too! So in effect, we are all DEEPLY DISTURBED INDIVIDUALS too! Yeah! But if you need a enemy to feel better about yourself.....

See!

[quote] [R157] The social contagion is transphobia, bitch.

I'm not R157 but I want to point out that not all doctors involved in the gender dysphoria treatment, or how you should call it, just blindly believe every patient they see. I read an interview a year or two ago where the doctor said that he was worried about the fact that sometimes everyone in a group of teen female friends announce they are all trans and want to become boys. That kind of behavior is all about the social contagion R157 is talking about. I mean what are the odds that girls who've known each other for years all turn out trans? Zero.

The problem with normalizing sex change is that it's much easier to get the ball rolling. When we have doctors who immediately agree with patients that they are trans without making the vetting procedure harder we get people who are not 100% sure. And I agree that very possibly in a few years time there'll be tons of lawsuits from people whose bodies were ruined by physical and chemical procedures.

I've said it in other threads and I say it again, I was a femme boy as a kid but got more masculine naturally after the hormones kicked in on my puberty. I'm sure if I was a teen now I'd be pushed to start the trans procedures. A few years back a psychiatric nurse who was vetting me for therapy (for mild depression) paid partly by the state asked, after hearing I'm gay, that am I sure I'm not really trans? I was so taken aback by the question I was left speechless. I'm not femme anymore, the only reason to ask that was my homosexuality. Now that's homophobia in practice and a direct consequence from all the pushing for trans rights done for the past decade or so.

I support trans people who truly feel they are the opposite sex but the reality is most people on the planet have had to adjust into societal norms. There aren't that many people around who can be what they truly are without making sacrifices. If you want to change your sex then do it but please don't try to make others do it just so you can get company. Or want to bed those hot straight boys, since I'm 100% sure that's one of the main reasons M2Fs are pushing their "we are real women" propaganda.

THIS is a wedge issue the GOP is going to use to win in 2022....Wait and see...

R49/R54 you know very well why not.

But for the benefit of the people in back of the theater—if you call this procedure what it is, it spotlights the full needless biomedically-horrifyibg truth of it all. Can’t have that.

‘Masectomy’ reminds one automatically of disease, especially cancer, which is usually one of the only reasons a woman would get her breasts removed entirely. ‘Breast removal’ sounds cosmetic, like plastic surgery done for comfort or aesthetic. Top surgery’ however sounds more vital and less brutal than either, and that’s why the parlance around T modification has been altered thus. You don’t want to spook the zombies who buy into this Mengelesque lunacy.

[quote] we also shouldn’t allow the media to elevate/glorify these stories, for the “simple” reason that there is a social contagion that comes attached, which seems to be affecting teenage girls, many of whom are autistic.

Indeed.

As a teen in the mid 2000s, I had undiagnosed Asperger’s and was also complete oblivious to my homosexuality (or sexuality in general, really). I went through a period of a couple of years (about age 12-14) where, despite the uniform policy of my girls’-only school (skirts and blouses at all times) I only wanted to dress in boys’ clothes, and I adopted a surly teen-boy attitude to match.

Thankfully, my mother laid down the law with me and only let me wear boys’ fit clothes at home, but also compromised partway to show she supported my feelings and made a petition to the school board asking that they allow students to at least wear trousers if they wanted. The petition was unsuccessful, but the thought was touching.

Looking back, I’m grateful that at no point did my mother, or the school counsellor, or any of my teachers suggest I could be T/dysphoric, or even gay. They just let me work through it on my own as Nature intended, and today I’m a lesbian living without angst on the border between butch and femme.

Some help with the autism/Asperger’s back then would have really helped me out, though. I thought I was a crazy freak for my entire adolescence, when in actual fact it’s just that the society I live in is not designed for the user-friendliness of people like me.

R166 gays are nuts, too! Most will own that. But we’re not in total denial of biology and reality. And mutilating our bodies.

She should get the cock

I hope, for her sake, she can separate hate from humor!

For his sake*

[quote]Up until 1973 and in most people's lifetime here, Homosexuality was officially deemed a mental illness but then humanly reduced to a "sexual orientation disturbance".

I've never understood this logic. "Because medicine and society were wrong about homosexuality, medicine and society must be wrong about everything else."

That said, I hope Elliot lives a full and happy life from here on out. And I hope I never again have to hear any details about her body choices.

... HIS body choices.

R174

[quote]That said, I hope Elliot lives a full and happy life from here on out. And I hope I never again have to hear any details about her body choices.

Amen. I'm actually empathetic to their struggle on an individual basis. Who am I to doubt their sense of identity? But the category crusade and the language of it make me utterly indifferent. Page's blather was like wading through word molasses. I wish them well but don't care what happens. And, sorry, a penis doesn't belong in a women's change room. I'm down with that objection.

R177, it was removed due to lobbying. Had it not been for pressure from gay groups it’d still be classified as a mental illness. That’s the point. They never really agreed with us not being fucked in the head either.

[quote] But we’re not in total denial of biology and reality.

Cocks don’t belong in assholes. We’ve normalized that for ourselves along with saying we were born gay. Sounds like denial of reality to me.

[quote] THIS is a wedge issue the GOP is going to use to win in 2022....Wait and see...

Except 90% of Americans don’t care. This isn’t the UK where they’re obsessed with the subject.

[quote]Cocks don’t belong in assholes.

No, but they fit nicely.

Born gay = born the opposite sex despite DNA. There’s no difference. It’s all based on feeling.

Gays really have no room to talk when it comes to the trans issue. The anti-trans “think of the children”, “they’re mentally ill”, “they’re turning kids trans” etc nonsense is the same thing they said about us for decades.

R186 false equivalence.

They look and act like fools, just ignore them. They’re crazy and no one believes them. If any of it were true it would be quiet.

Absolutely false R186.

[quote]Dear fellow Faggots.

We love to call gays this here. Oh well. 😢

“Removing a functioning part of my body saved my life!” WELL LET’S SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I CHOP MY ARM OFF!

[quote]Cocks don’t belong in assholes. We’ve normalized that for ourselves along with saying we were born gay. Sounds like denial of reality to me.

Cocks don’t belong in mouths either but plenty of straights partake, what's your point?

R192 that’s right. Arms don’t belong in assholes either but plenty of straights partake!

Tongues don't belong on an anus either

All this talk of sodomy is getting me hungry!

R194 is a headline I never expected to read.

Being gay and being trans are two entirely different things, but showing empathy and kindness and respect to trans people and acknowledging our shared struggles is not gay erasure. You do not have to agree or embrace trans people or the trans agenda, but at the very least respect them enough to not reduce who they are to nothing more than a mental disorder. Doing that means that we have not learned from our own history and are no better than racists, sexists, and homophobes.

[quote] I've never understood this logic. "Because medicine and society were wrong about homosexuality, medicine and society must be wrong about everything else."

This is the same logic behind people who tell you that ALL western medicine is a hoax, and any cancer can be cured by eating 100 apricot pits every day.

Being gay and trans are completely different. When someone transitions, we have not lost (or "erased") a gay, because that person wasn't gay to begin with.

[quote] but showing empathy and kindness and respect to trans people and acknowledging our shared struggles is not gay erasure.

What are the “shared struggles”? I’ve been a man my entire life and I’m quite happy about it, so that’s not shared at all. Being gay and being trans are very different situations.

[quote]What are the “shared struggles”? I’ve been a man my entire life and I’m quite happy about it, so that’s not shared at all. Being gay and being trans are very different situations.

Isn't this the same site where people got pissed off at those black people who didn't think that gay rights should be lumped into civil rights? I am not saying that you, in particular, had those feelings, but it was a common point made quite often.

All oppressed groups have certain shared struggles.

[quote]Isn't this the same site where people got pissed off at those black people who didn't think that gay rights should be lumped into civil rights?

I was never pissed off about that, ever. Blacks do not support gay rights, period. That’s what I and most are pissed off about.

Well said R97

[quote]Isn't this the same site where people got pissed off at those black people who didn't think that gay rights should be lumped into civil rights?

I’ll add, no way do I support gay rights being conflated with any other rights. I am completely against this “melting pot”. We should be seperated. I don’t even believe in “LGBT”. We need to be separate from each other. Blacks don’t support gay rights at all, it doesn’t matter how define it, apart or separate from “civil rights”. We should be seperate because that is the answer to all of our problems. Life in America has declined since Johnson. JFK was petrified of a Johnson presidency and he was RIGHT. We are NOT a melting pot.

R201 There’s not a hierarchy of oppression either. If you’re on the cross, you’re on the cross.

There are no "shared struggles" between gay folks and trans. None. Zero. This is not a gay issue at all and they are not part of the LGB movement. When you get to the point in your life where your mind is telling you to chop off body parts to feel more like the gender you believe you are, that is a clear mental health crisis. It should not be encouraged and any doctor that performs amputation on someone's healthy breasts or dick should be driven out of the medical profession.

I have nothing in common with someone who is trans. Nothing. I do not believe it should be encouraged or celebrated. It's a sickness. There are people who have amputation fetishes called apotemnophilia...people who cut off various body parts for the hell of it like fingers and toes. If you think those people are mentally ill, why is doing that in the name of gender any less mentally ill? Why change the body to match whatever you think is your mind when it would be much easier and much less invasive to help the person struggling with gender issues to align themselves more with the gender they were born into. There are numerous videos online and information about people who de-transitioned after going through all this and they regret immensely their decisions to alter their bodies permanently. There needs to be a focus on that instead of the celebration of a woman who cut her breasts off just to fit in to what her obviously unhealthy mind told her she was.

R197

"You do not have to agree or embrace trans people or the trans agenda"

Where are you getting the idea that this is optional?

That's where I parted ways with the T. The LGB only ever wanted legal rights and to be left alone. LGB individuals moved the needle on acceptance by coming out to the people we cared about and otherwise representing ourselves as normal people with normal lives who want what everyone else wants.

The T don't want to be left alone, and they don't want to be treated like everyone else. When I see a man, I treat him like the man he is. When I see a man in a dress, I'm supposed to treat him like I think he's a woman, even though he isn't and I don't. All a homophobe has to do to not be branded a bigot is leave us alone. All "transphobes" have to do to not be branded a bigot is participate in compelled speech. There's no parallel.

R207, poor you. So aggrieved. You sound threatened and fearful that you’ve been usurped.

The whole point of gay rights - of any minority rights - is to recognise the humanity in others. That’s the only reason we as gay people have rights - because we forced people to recognise us as human rather than demonised stereotypes. You obviously learned nothing from that. You actually think some people are deserving of rights and protections and some people; the latter deserves to be abused, hated and even killed.

I would remind that gay people here that until 1973, homosexuality was classified in the DSM as a psycho-sexual abnormality and was treated as a mental illness. How quickly some people forget. Shame on all of you.

^^ and some people aren’t; ...

r208, no one is saying the trans shouldn't fight for whatever perceived rights they think they are being denied. They should. However they are not part of the LGB community so they need to stop the attempts to lump them in with us. They aren't gay or lesbian. Elliot Page is no longer a lesbian and has made it clear that he feels like he is a man so therefore, his fight is not ours. And homosexuality was overturned as a mental illness because it did not qualify as one. No one who was gay was claiming there was something wrong with their minds. Trans are open about their minds being "not right" because they don't match their bodies. They are pretty much admitting it is a mental disorder and one they wish to correct by attempting drastic and horrible changes to their own bodies.

Yeah, guess what, R210? In the 1980s, lesbians were probably the least likely people to contract HIV/AIDS. It didn’t stop them from caring for, fighting for and unconditionally allying themselves with gay men. The entire 16 year activist movement to resolve the AIDS crisis would’ve faltered without them. Some of them were arrested for us, they cared for us and fought for us, buried those who died and gave comfort to the living. By your thinking, they didn’t have to do any of that. They recognised we were all part of a community, they saw the humanity in us and acted to ease our suffering and join in the battle with us.

Think of all the people that tried to tell gay men who they were and what they should do with themselves and how unnatural and disgusting their behaviour was, who jeered when we died and laughed. That’s you now, mischaracterising their plight so that you can keep your mind closed because you feel threatened. You have no compassion for others. How lucky and charmed your life must be that you get to go around and tell others how to deal with their profound dysphoria - by pleasing you. You offer no comfort for them. Top dog, bottom dog, eh R210? You should try imagining yourself as neither above or below anybody. For all your faux concern about other people’s bodies - and people alter their bodies all the time for numerous reasons - you fail to realise that trans is about identity and the specificity of that is something that can benefit us all. For instance the masculinity of gay men has never been more clear and beyond dispute because in terms of identity it is very clear we identify as men in terms of gender and gay in terms of our sexual orientation. We are not feminine or feminised men. We are men, regardless of sexual orientation. You can thank trans people for that clarity - the specificity of their identity empowers us all. And the medical and psychological authorities back and recommend the procedures available to trans people which have nothing to do with your thoughts and right-wing politicians characterisations. By your standards, all surgery is butchery.

Someone should force you to wear a dress and make up and a wig for a month and exclude you from everything you want to do. Remember how awkward puberty was as a boy? Imagine you were also growing breasts. And menstruating. Imagine that.

"Someone should force you to wear a dress and make up and a wig for a month and exclude you from everything you want to do."

Guess what, r211...I am a woman. So I grew up being excluded from a lot of things I wanted to do, one of which was to play baseball with the boys who were my friends. I was also made to wear dresses and clothing I wasn't comfortable in because my mom thought I had to wear those things and would only buy me those things. And getting my first period was a pain in the ass as was growing breasts. I didn't want any of those things and yet, I knew that those things were happening because I was a woman and it was part of being female. I still hate getting my monthly period and I never buy overly fem clothing because it's not who I am. But I'm not wanting to cut off my healthy breasts, asking for a hysterotomy, or demanding anyone refer to me as something I'm clearly not because my mind and body are not in conflict. I don't have a mental disorder where I demand to be allowed to compete in major league baseball because I know my body is not up to that challenge and that the men would clearly have an advantage over me in sports due to their biology. I'm not demanding to be referred to by some fantasy, made up pronouns and I'm not trying to make straight women sleep with me, despite not being attracted to my gender. I'm not trying to cancel anyone who says "only women menstruate" because I'm not some delusional woman who believes men can be women or women can be men. I remember how awkward puberty was because it's awkward for everyone. I'm not superior than anyone, but I'm also not going to go around pretending the sky is yellow when it's blue and neither should you. I have zero issues with folks who want to present as a different gender...to each their own. But when those people start demanding and being celebrated for doing things that are damaging to their bodies and attempting to force themselves into women's spaces despite their obvious advantages, I'm going to stand up for women and lesbians every time.

Guess who GLAAD has appearing on their awards show??

Laverne Cox!

Will we ever get to a point where Laverne Cox isn't the LGBTQIA+ Poster Tranny? If Laverne Cox didn't basically "pass" we would never have heard of her.

Mentally unwell + attention seeking people are more likely to do some stunt like highly publicised suicide attempts when things are going down: failed career + hormone and other messing up cobtributing to depression, not getting better + not achieving what they originally dreamed of, etc.

Lots of such people do that but we know well that when trans do that, it's automatically "Cis (gays) murdered them! Blood on their hands!"

In memoriam

r111 Fall in love with someone of your same gender and cutting off healthy body parts aren't the same, dumb troll.

[quote] And getting my first period was a pain in the ass as was growing breasts. I didn't want any of those things and yet, I knew that those things were happening because I was a woman and it was part of being female. I still hate getting my monthly period.

Exactly.

This is what I loathe about Ts—LARPing all this stuff like it’s cute and fun. Being a girl ages 11-14 and going through all that is anything but fun; actually, it’s like Lovecraftian horror for the first year or two. You have no idea what the fuck is going on in your kid brain, and you feel like a mutant. You never know when the pain and discomfort and embarrassment and panic is going to hit next.

Though I knew it was coming and I bloomed quite late, I think I cried for about ten months straight when puberty hit me. It’s heartbreaking to have your childhood end like that, in blood and pain, and in ways that are obvious and that make it impossible for you to live with the same freedom that males do all their lives. We born-women lose something valuable, enduring maturation, and you can’t ever manufacture that.

It’s awful, and knowing that other women go through the same and will be there for you is all that makes it bearable.

R217 What the fuck’s wrong with you. Keep those strange feelings to yourself or share on a trans site.

R218 what do you mean, ‘strange’? Your mother went through it, as did your aunts and sisters if you have them. Half the world population is female, and most them experience puberty. What exactly is alien about that?

And why would I share that story with a bunch of creepy autogynephiles who’d jack off to it, or a mob of teen girls who need several sessions of therapy before they could even hear about it?

I said what I said to drive home the point that MTFs are offensive in their desire to cosplay or simulate menstruation and breast growth, and that FTMs are trying to outrun an age-old demon that will catch them in the end no matter what. Transing is futile, stupid, and highly degrading.

R219 Oh, ok, sorry. I thought you were saying you’re a man because you hated puberty so much.

Absolutely no-one, and certainly no lesbians and gay men who I know of, had any issue when the whole deal was simply about leaving trans people be in order that they could live their best lives as they saw fit, whatever form that took, and supporting their rights not to be discriminated against or harassed. No-one reasonably argues with any of that. Appeals to “be kind” are very far behind the curve.

The issue began, with the insistence that the self-perception of a minority of individuals must be observed by the rest of us, and also had some bearing on the reality the rest of us know and live in. Hence “some women have penises”, “biological sex doesn’t really exist,” the push for males in women’s spaces and most egregiously, the idea that children not conforming to gender stereotypes means they are “really” not the sex that they objectively are.

With reference to Page in particular, this person is clearly not mentally very well, and the statements made point to a massive amount of internalized misogyny and homophobia that we are all apparently meant to handwave away while declaring the whole thing “brave.” It is unsurprising that gay men and lesbians are unconvinced.

But....

STONEWALL!

Ellen's wife divorced her last year. Who can blame her?

It's Page's body, her life, etc., but, it all makes me sad & a bit angry. I think of the women I've known who had to have mastectomies due to cancer, & this one has her breasts removed on some bizarre whim... It also sends a horrible message to the young: Being female &/or a lesbian is something shameful, to be corrected by surgery.

This is NOT what the gay men & lesbians from previous generations fought for.

[quote] Ellen's wife divorced her last year. Who can blame her?

Wife is also 'she/they' and and very into queer-trans activism. Still liking Page's instagram posts and leaving comments like '<3 <3 <3'.

When the media hype dies down, his next attention grab will be... god knows what. Fuck this humorless Canadian lunatic.

[quote]STONEWALL!

You queers are racist for naming a bar after a Confederate general. More proof that homoyou-know-whatuality is not just a sin, it's racist, too. Elliot is only doing what God commands of him. And Rev. Pat Robertson says it's not a sin like those awful dirty homoyou-know-whatuals are.

I'm sure my fellow Black Homophobes will also approve when we get together at our next meeting. I'm sure Jimmie Walker will think it's DYN-O-MITE! And Boozie Badazz will like it more than he liked Disney caving into the homoyou-know-whatual agenda, and Kevin Hart will be happy to see it, too. Think about it: the ACLU and Pat Robertson are on the exact same side of this issue. The homophobes have won! Our prayers to pray the gay away have been answered! High glory! Hallelujah!

The male pattern baldness is because of the testosterone they are injecting. It’s the same kind that causes male pattern baldness and excessive body hair in biological men. Trans men can’t take propecia because it blocks/inhibits that kind of testosterone.

r221 expresses it well. I actually feel very sorry for Ellen Page. She was in desperate need of spending some time around some diesel dykes when she was growing up to show her that it's ok to be masculine while still maintaining their womanhood. She grew up in that "in between" period where it was getting more acceptable in society to be gay but not quite. I was very proud of her when she finally came out and declared herself a lesbian. We all knew she was and it was nice to see another brave actress embrace her sexuality.

But now this. This right here is mental illness on full display and the sad demise of a lesbian who could have been a great role model for younger women. I've seen too many younger women "cosplaying non binary" to know that this will send some of them to the edge of trans or over it. The messages this is sending are horrifying. Ellen obviously has struggled with mental illness her entire life and this is the culmination and the end result of what happens when that shit isn't addressed. She looks more unhappy in the Time Cover than she ever did as a female. I hope she eventually can be happy, but when you are to the point where cutting off your own breasts seems like a great idea, you are likely too far gone.

And to any young lesbians who post here, your breasts are magnificent and once you have a mastectomy, you lose ALL feelings and sensations in your breasts forever. Forever. And no, implants don't bring anything back...just the appearance of breasts. And binding them also does great harm to them. So think shit through before you decide to mutilate yourselves.

we need to see some changes around here

Heterosexual men are war criminals. So is anyone who wants to be one.

Is she going to go for teenage boy parts now?

Just to double back, NO ONE is "non-binary".

How is that ridiculous term tossed around so freely??

R233 Exactly. Maybe someone raised in a bubble by monkey robot arms is “non-binary”,

R208

Men are human, and women are human. Therefore, when I perceive a man as a man, I see him as human, and when I perceive a woman as a woman, I see her as human. There is nothing dehumanizing about not playing along with trans identities.

It's funny you accuse me of being afraid because, in my experience, it's people who pretend to buy into trans who are the most terrified. They intrinsically know how unreasonable most trans people are and walk on eggshells around them. Since I reject the whole thing, I have nothing to fear except the mild inconvenience of managing a meltdown from an irate delusional person.

No penis=a woman Penis=a man

[quotes]Is she going to go for teenage boy parts now

That sounds DELICIOUS.

Fact. Only misogynists celebrate a woman having her breasts hacked off.

What was her name before? I seriously forgot.

She couldn’t just wear a boys/men’s tshirt? He/she sounds like Kevin from the parenthood movie who melted down at every little thing. Maybe she should’ve been put in a special school.

You all sound like a bunch of hate-filled, homophobic Christians going on about stuff you know nothing about, thinking your ignorance is what matters. You might as well be Marjorie Taylor Green. It’s so sad. I never would’ve thought gay people could be filled with such hate.

I don't care about Mr. Page.

Helen, Ellen, Harry, R239. I forget.

Given that T’s want to cancel gays and naturally born women, R241, I for one reject your attempted gift at shaming.

r241 you are right. I mean, look at us, coming up with the word, "TERF" to describe anyone who doesn't want to fuck their "lady dicks" and trying to cancel folks for saying that only women menstruate.

But yeah, the gays are the ones with the hate. Fuck off.

R241, this is from your earlier post:

[quote] The whole point of gay rights - of any minority rights - is to recognise the humanity in others. That’s the only reason we as gay people have rights - because we forced people to recognise us as human rather than demonised stereotypes. You obviously learned nothing from that. You actually think some people are deserving of rights and protections and some people; the latter deserves to be abused, hated and even killed.

I can only speak for myself but I assume some gay people share my views. I don't hate trans people and don't want them to get hurt. I totally get how hard it can be for trans people to find their place and feel accepted as what they are. The problem is that the trans movement seems to have chosen the approach of forcing everyone to just accept that anyone who says they're trans should be viewed as being biologically the gender they proclaim to be. The problem with that is that eg many trans women are nowhere near being biological women, I mean in practically any way. That would be fine if we weren't forced to view them as real women but to just see them as trans women. However this is not acceptable for many trans people who are clearly moving into the direction of making the word trans in itself unacceptable.

Who are the intolerant ones in this equation? People who refuse to accept the demands from the trans movement to alter biological facts or the trans movement which only accepts the reality they've created themselves as the only truth? Anyone who dares to question the new trans reality is declared as the enemy, a trans hater, an undesirable. JK Rowling who's been very supportive of gay and trans issues but refused to bend to every demand of the trans movement was demonized. It's absolutely crazy that whenever she's mentioned in the media these days she's labeled as anti-trans, like she was some kind of Nazi. The trans movement has partly achieved their goal by trying to ruin her reputation but unfortunately for them she's rich as fuck and isn't afraid to fight back.

It's been said many times before that many prominent M2F trans figures are using toxic masculinity to get what they want. F2M people like Elliott Page are nowhere near in the hatefullness and assholery. I'm sure the movement views those cunty tactics as something necessary to achieving their goals but unfortunately they've really just made it clear how man-like those trans girls really are.

It's the trans way or the highway, and unfortunately this very possibly means the decline for the gay rights as well when the big masses really start saying no to the new trans reality. This is why some gay people have problems with the current trans movement.

73 percent of people support trans kids in sports, new poll finds, published March 17, 2021

A new report released Wednesday found that people support two of the biggest LGBTQ+ issues.

In headlines and statehouses, young transgender athletes appear to be a hot-button issue. But a new poll released Wednesday suggests that the nation is far less divided than state politicians.

On Wednesday, Hart Research Associates and LGBTQ+ organization the Human Rights Campaign (HRC) released a new report that finds that 73 percent of people believe that trans kids should be allowed to play on the team on which they feel comfortable, including 56 percent of Republicans. The poll also found that 70 percent of the country supports the Equality Act, the watershed nondiscrimination protections bill for LGBTQ+ people that is heading to the Senate Judiciary Committee.

“The country truly is landing on a place and on the side of equality and opportunity,” said JoDee Winterhof, senior vice president of policy and political affairs at HRC. “We continue to see a strength in these numbers, even while there are significant attacks on our community and particularly on transgender youth across the country.”

...

That poll goes against virtually every other poll on the subject r247, and given that it was sponsored by the TRC, oops, I mean the HRC, I think we all know how much value it has. As an example, I posted a poll from POLITICO from a couple of weeks ago, but there are quite a few others.

From that HRC poll of a thousand people:

[quote] Black voters were far more likely to support the pro-LGBTQ+ legislation than any other group at 88 percent. Seventy-six percent of Latinx voters backed the measure. White voters were least likely at just 67 percent. The report did not disaggregate data for other racial groups.

HAHAHAHAAAA that’s how you know this poll is absolutely bullshit. There has never been polling (88%?!) that high from ANY racial group in regards to LGBT rights. Certainly this poll was taken off the HRC mailing list and not a cross section of average Americans.

Another thing that damages the credibility of the trans movement are MTF that dress way too young for their age, or inappropriately. It’s hard to see someone as truly believing they are an ordinary female, when a fifty year old is dressed like a Barbie doll or a porn actress in all kinds of settings, including at work. Many of them have long blonde hair, even if long blonde hair is completely unflattering to them, and have no consideration of the limits of what someone can wear due to age and figure. It’s seen as fetishism and not a good faith effort to blend in.

A while back I was watching Dr Rachel Levine, Biden’s pick for assistant health secretary. I give her credit for dressing as a professional and not an eighteen year old whore. But she doesn’t pluck her bushy, unshaped and undefined eyebrows, cuts her nails the way men do and women never do, too short, wears very unnatural colored foundation that is Trumpesque in its unrealistic color, and has a grossly unflattering hairstyle that’s obviously “I always wanted to trans for years, so I’m going to wear long hair even though it looks horrible on me.” I’ve seen her wear what looks like pencil eyeliner as thick crayon-like smears partly around the bottom of her eyes.

It’s one thing to say someone is doing the best they can, I understand that. But this is a high profile professional job. No woman would get away with that. It would hold back her career, if not stop her from being hired or promoted, regardless of merit. The idea that because you’re a MTF trans person, that rules for women’s professional grooming don’t apply to you, because you’re better or more authoritative than an actual woman, because you’re an ex man? makes no sense if trans people want to be accepted as women. They don’t want to be treated like women, they want to be treated with the privileges of manhood, but dressed like a woman.

That’s not living like a woman, that’s wanting to be accepted as a “real” woman, but only where appearance is concerned and nothing else. You’re either a woman or you’re not. It’s seen as looking down at cis women as inferior to themselves. No cis woman can pick and choose how others see them. The social rules for cis women about grooming are very male defined, and they have to conform if they want to work or go to school without issue. But transwomen feel the rules for women don’t apply to them. They are inciting resentment from women who would never be taken seriously, or even be employable, if they weren’t constantly monitoring their physical appearance, even if they’re brain surgeons or rocket scientists.

[quote]Black voters were far more likely to support the pro-LGBTQ+ legislation than any other group at 88 percent.

No way.

88% doesn’t support that vast majority of blacks who overwhelmingly voted for prop 8. Or voted overwhelmingly against gay marriage in other states. Or the 0% support for Mayor Pete.

[quote] cuts her nails the way men do and women never do, too short

I’m a professional woman. I keep my nails very short for both my job and my hobbies.

Anyone wants this 'man'?

Thanks for your nice post, R246. I mentioned up thread that people feel threatened (and defensive) and respondents have denied this while being completely defensive, threatened and dishonest in their arguments.

Someone upthread mentions that trans people want to "cancel gays and naturally born women" - I mean, firstly, the only people who talk in terms of "cancel culture" are right-wing trolls or tools of right-wing trolls. Would "cancellation" be the same way that same sex marriage was going to "destroy" American families and drive our species to extinction, that kind of thing? That kind of made up political threat that was used as a wedge issue for decades? Because that's most of what this is - the established patriarchy is pitting women and gay men against the trans community for fun and profit. And most of the posters on this thread are either trolling to fuel that propaganda - which is going to be HUGE in the run up to the 2022 mid-terms - or are unaware that they're being played and manipulated. There are no doubt some extreme polemics on the fringe of the trans movement - where they meet and collide with cis-gendered women - but that is no more representative of the trans community or trans people themselves than radical Islamic terrorists are of the world's Muslim population. (Or, god helps us, Ron Johnson is of all white people, or even mid-westerners).

Someone used the term "mutilation" above - hmm, as if cis-gendered women haven't been mutilating themselves for decades and inserting big bags of saline into their bodies to help them achieve their own personal identity and/or body image, due to dysmorphia. I guess no one here is aware of this, or has seen photos of how mutilated women were by leaking toxic substances into their bodies and in many recorded cases, dying. All to achieve their own body image and/or please straight men. People have been been voluntarily electing to have plastic surgery and radically re-shape their faces and other body parts for decades, to deal with their body dysmorphia. I'm not sure how this is any different from the methods that, in some cases not all, trans people use to mitigate their gender dysphoria. The perception about this here was like when right-wingers used to speak with authority about the utility of the anus, wrongly claiming that the anal musculature only went in one direction. Anything to demonise their target and make them seem "unnatural." Natural birth actually "mutilates" a woman's vaginal area, if you want to go there, which has to be re-built after delivery. Nobody likes to talk about that. Maybe we should put an end to that as well, following the anti-trans logic here. (Also, suddenly revealing yourself as a cis-gendered woman and thinking that somehow negates my every argument is just bad faith arguing. I was clearly addressing my fellow gay men, ignoring that obvious context is just silly.) CONT.

There are always wannabes in any movement, people who actually long to identify as "other" to make themselves or their lives seem more interesting - 12-step programmes attract people like this but it doesn't negate the good that they do. As gay men, we all know of people who thought being "gay" was going to satisfy their narcissistic needs and when it didn't, cried foul on the gay community saying they were misled by our recruitment drive or something, which gave them another identity as "victim" and allowed them to spread cautionary tales of how awful being gay is and what a mistake it is to buy into that, etc., and what a danger it is to normalise gay behaviour. (Someone up thread said that homosexuality was never thought to be a mental illness - good grief, do your research. What do you think conversion therapy is all about? Why do you think gay men were institutionalised, castrated and jailed? For the record, gender dyphoria is not considered a mental illness but all the anti-trans haters here will object to that because it doesn't suit their prejudice.) Anyway, of course there are always people who jump on the wagon and then cry foul but that's only like at most 4% of people who identify as trans, which is such a journey and a very long one, and very unique for each individual, it can hardly be dismissed as a legitimate state of being as it is here. Like homosexuality itself, trans is not new. A lot of the anti-trans hatred here is about threat, defensiveness and control which suggests that a lot of you when made aware of the existence of trans people feel a sense that you're losing control, that something is being taken away from you. That by being more aware, specific and inclusive that somehow you are losing. The hate is about protecting yourselves, and if any of the gay men here remember the last, oh, 60 years of the movement for gay rights, that was how a lot of our opposition responded to us - that they would lose, that there were only a finite number of marriages or families that could be had, that in acknowledging our existence, we were asking for SPECIAL treatment, above and beyond that afforded the mass majority. Uh huh. That we should just stay hidden.

Some of you probably are hopeless haters and will rail against trans people and probably vote Republican because of it until your dying day - making other people's lives more difficult and challenging than they already are because you have such a profound sense of lack in your own life and lack abundance. I don't really care about you. I'm trying to counter all of the hate and ignorant anti-trans rhetoric here so that other people - who may just be encountering these issues - don't mistake you people as authorities on the subject. You're an authority on being a bog standard, ignorant, closed-minded hateful person. That's probably about it. Unfortunately, you infest our site, of which I have been an active member of for very nearly 20 years. All of this faux concern about women's rights and protecting their bodies - which of course they need gay men to do - is just a masquerade for a hate-filled, anti-trans thread. I missed the campaign here to end female circumcision, all the concern and compassion for true women's issues, reproductive rights, etc,. so, you're not fooling any actual thinking people. Women's rights are human rights, without question. And so are trans rights. I encourage people just encountering these issues to seek out better resources than this fear-propagating, hate-filled thread. As a cis-gendered, gay man, I don't feel threatened by any of the trans people in my life - some of whom I didn't even know were there - and have been empowered and strengthened through their own challenging journey of identity and self-expression. The haters are going to extremes to try and drive a wedge here, most of them likely have zero actual experience of trans people and are just tools of right-wing propaganda.

Quote from R255/R256: Natural birth actually "mutilates" a woman's vaginal area, if you want to go there, which has to be re-built after delivery.

No, it doesn't. That's how much you know about women in general and "natural birth" in particular. But yet again, a gay man attempts to "mainsplain" women.

Stay in your own lane for a change, fucktard. Punch and delete.

Sorry -- "mansplain."

The tshirt comment is probably when s/he had to wear for for films, not in personal life. The dour mien might be what s/he thinks is "masculine", as women tend to smile more than hetero men. S/he could play Ezra Miller's little brother (even though s/he's older)...even a Mini-Flash- there's less wind drag.

I love you, Euro Guy R246!

Yeah, thanks R257. So when women have an episiotomy or a breast enhancement that’s a surgical procedure but when trans people have approved surgical procedures that’s mutilation. And you get a say in that because that’s right in your lane. But don’t call you a TERF. Got it.

Also R257, I take it you’re a lesbian then since Datalounge is apparently your lane too?

She's a straight, white male now, so she needs to stop acting like a victim.

Proud TERF here, R261. You make me feel like a natural woman.

[quote] So when women have an episiotomy or a breast enhancement that’s a surgical procedure but when trans people have approved surgical procedures that’s mutilation.

You daft turd, an episiotomy is a necessary procedure used during difficult deliveries. Splitting a penis in half and shoving it up the pelvic cavity or taking a length of thigh skin, rolling it and seeing in on a pubis is not.

Clearly you’re a medical authority, R265, capable of making decisions for EVERYBODY.

I had a dear friend who lived for 10 years with Stage 4 breast cancer; when she had a double mastectomy early on, her nipples were grafted onto her back to save for a time when they could rebuild her breasts. I’m sure you’d object to that too because, y’know, you reserve the right to object to other people’s private health matters that are none of your concern. You’re like the very definition of irrational hatred.

Also R265, you may feel like a natural woman but we’ll have to test your hormone levels and inspect your genitalia to be sure.

^^R265/R264

Having breast enhancement does not rob a woman of her ability to feel sexual pleasure from sex as the nerves are not severed and removed as they are during a mastectomy. A mastectomy is not medically necessary unless there is breast cancer and you can never recover feeling in your breasts. And honestly, I feel the same about people who use plastic surgery. All of it is body mutilation and should not be celebrated unless it's a case of rebuilding some body part that has been disfigured. The women and men who do radical things to their bodies are equally as disturbed as Page. And trans are not part of the gay and lesbian community. And r256 you are aware that lesbians can now be kicked off of dating apps for stating they only wish to date biological women, right? How is that right or fair? I'm sure you are standing up for you own lesbian sisters with equal passion that you are standing up for trans folks, right?

I am actually. My respect, admiration for and gratitude towards my lesbian brothers and sisters goes back decades. That is clearly stated in my post above. And I’m sure they can handle themselves on dating/social networking apps where all sorts conflicts/issues arise over race, body types, etc. and apparently gender identities.

I would agree that plastic surgery isn’t for me. It has incredible applications though; I used to have a friend who was a renowned plastic surgeon and fine art photographer who only shot twins and had a foundation dedicated to providing reconstructive surgery for paediatric burn victims - it was all a bit like Cronenberg on the surface but he did a lot of good.

I wouldn’t pretend or imagine that it was any of my business what people do with their bodies and that includes judging them for their decisions. When you respect people, you respect their privacy and their choices.

"As a cis-gendered, gay man, I don't feel threatened by any of the trans people in my life"

As a cis-gendered, gay woman, I do as transwomen are attempting to shove their dicks into my vag or getting me banned from dating site altogether for not wanting to let them. They are also attempting to destroy the lives of women who stand up for other women by painting them as transphobic when, in actuality they are simply stating FACTS such as "only women get their periods."

These are not made up, arbitrary things. They are happening right now and to pretend you don't see it or to say that anyone who objects to having to play along with the sexual fetishes of transwomen is somehow infringing on their "rights" is enabling these people to do great damage to women and all that we have fought for. To put Page on Time Magazine as some hero to the trans community is dangerous in the message it sends to young women which is that your sense of self somehow depends on your outward appearance...the message that women have been getting for YEARS only now it comes wrapped in the package of cutting your tits off and conforming to the idea of what a man should look like because if you're attracted to women, you might just really be a man.

"And I’m sure they can handle themselves on dating/social networking apps where all sorts conflicts/issues arise over race, body types, etc. and apparently gender identities."

No they can't "handle" themselves on dating sites when they are not allowed to state on the dating site what biological gender they prefer.

[quote] towards my lesbian brothers and sisters

What?

R267, I ain’t letting you near my vulva and vagina, honey. And my hormones are none of your business either, other than I can attest to the perils of early menopause, endometriosis, and hysterectomy all before 50. I can also lovingly say all of the equipment is naturally born and God-given. My two ex-husbands, my natural born son, and my two ex-girlfriends can at-“test” to my hormone levels and genitalia “to be sure,” so I laughingly decline your offer.

[quote] "As a cis-gendered, gay man, I don't feel threatened by any of the trans people in my life" - As a cis-gendered, gay woman, I do as transwomen are attempting to shove their dicks into my vag or getting me banned from dating site altogether for not wanting to let them. They are also attempting to destroy the lives of women who stand up for other women by painting them as transphobic when, in actuality they are simply stating FACTS such as "only women get their periods." [...]

r270 Agree with all of your points. Zero surprise, mansplaining what women should feel and think. The most revolting thing at the moment is that all the righteous whose slogans are 'against mansplaining, male domination, male privilege, male violence, patriarchy', show absolute submission to the same when those are executed by XY who identify as the most oppressed 'trans women'

That's one butch dyke.

[quote] What was her name before? I seriously forgot.

Ellen, like that other famous lesbian.

Sure R273, that’s the point. But you’ll subject trans people in sports to that? And likely their cis-gendered competitors? These anti-trans laws will have consequences for everybody and for what? They’ll be about as relevant as the GOP’s voter suppression laws.

[quote]my natural born son

Condolences on your mutilated vagina.

R270, firstly, I am sorry to hear of this and agree that an accommodation should be made, probably in the general preferences of such an app to configure this privately and from the start - of course, misrepresentation and security issues have always been a part of dating apps; none them should be thought of as completely safe. And several ethnic and minority groups have complained about perceived insensitivities on dating apps for years, that’s not new. The whole exercise is often enlightening to all parties, for some painfully so, that online life is a lot like real life with all its preferences and prejudices.

I was raped in a hotel room in NYC once when I arranged to meet someone from a dating site - someone I thought I knew, who turned out to be an imposter. Once I opened the door, they forced their way into the room. Despite this, I don’t blame the entire gay community for it, though I did stop using such apps and pretty much lost interest in casual, recreational encounters after that (which were often problematic prior to this when I would use them infrequently, though I did have some good experiences).

I still don’t understand all the anger and hatred of the trans community. It reminds me of a relative who got caught up in the Newark race riot in 1968 and five decades later still hates all black people just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and day, completely oblivious to their larger struggle for human rights. As if the whole thing is just about you and since it doesn’t work for you, an entire people should be denied respect and acknowledgement of their existence. As if they all deserve to be demonised collectively without any redeeming POV or value. It is clearly very significant for transgender people to have their gender identity fully accepted but, of course, if they refer to people as “cisgender” then they must be prepared to accept that their own gender identity is separate from that which I believe is the origin of “transgender”. I don’t believe that an attraction to trans people should be forced upon everyone else but I also don’t believe who partner with trans people should be discriminated against and jeered at. Trans people have to take their chances on the social scene like everybody else. Though the extreme hysteria expressed above that every MTF trans person is trying to get their “dicks into your vagina” seems ludicrously over the top, just in terms of actual proximity. (How many trans dicks are trying to get into your vagina right now?) If that’s the case, hate to tell you but every cisgender dick is trying to get in there too so, what else is new? Welcome to the world.

Also, it’s hard to resolve your hatred of the term “radical” (which I assume is the basis for the use of the acronym TERF, which I don’t typically use) with your actual statements here, even just in relation to my being a cisgender male. That kind of separatism still qualifies as radical, believe it or not.

I read your links so here’s one that might explain the exception to the use of “biological” and your exclusive claim to it, as biology is not exclusive and refers to us all as human beings.

^^don’t believe people who partner with transgender people should be discriminated against...

^^cisgender, hetero/bi-sexual dick

^^basis for opposition to the use of the acronym..

[quote]  (How many trans dicks are trying to get into your vagina right now?) If that’s the case, hate to tell you but every cisgender dick is trying to get in there too so, what else is new? Welcome to the world.

But het guys wouldn't get away with trying to shame people who won't sleep with them. The trans movement is trying to do exactly that by claiming it's wrong for lesbians to say no to a person with a dick, many times a perfectly working hard cock. And the same with us gay men, we're supposed to be OK with pussies and non-authentic dick-shaped objects. Not sure if it's been done yet but I'm sure at some point they will try to start canceling people publicly for not sleeping with trans people.

Quite honestly I'm bi or pan enough to see myself having sex with a trans woman or a trans man. I dated girls when I was younger and was intrigued after seeing Crying Game. And like probably all gay men I've met many super femme boys and ultra butch girls who very possibly were transgender mentally, and some of them were wonderful human beings and if they find happiness with physical transformation then I'm all for it although quite honestly I've always been critical of the Frankenstein nature of the procedures.

But I totally recognize that not everyone is as open as me. Let's just say that I understand everyone in this equation but I do not appreciate the trans movement for their dirty tactics eg with JK Rowling. Their attempt at trying to force young kids to trans in the UK, many of them gay and lesbian, was totally and absolutely despicable. There's nothing you can say for their defense to make that acceptable.

r279, you seem to think you're only talking to one lesbian here and you are not. My experience on lesbian dating apps is that the minute I upload a profile within HOURS I get several messages and all of them are from transwomen. Every single one. Funny thing is, I don't even need to look most of the time to know this because I know that women aren't aggressive like that. So the transwomen who think they are women don't even understand the first thing about women...which is because they are men and have a man's mind, no matter how you dress it up.

Lesbians are far more hesitant and will take their time reading profiles and mulling over if they should contact someone. It got to the point where it was taking far too long to get anyone to talk to me other than the men in dresses that I gave up. And I would also put that I preferred biological women in my profile. But now I see that apparently that's not acceptable anymore so I've resigned myself to hoping to meet a woman in real life some day, although lesbian bars no longer exist.

And yes, you don't have to tell lesbians or ANY woman for that matter that all men are trying to get into our pants. We know. Again with your mansplaining.

[quote] Lesbians are far more hesitant and will take their time reading profiles and mulling over if they should contact someone.

Ha, ha. Very true. Even women who are naturally big-mouths in actual life are very shy about writing.

Right, r283? I wish women were a tad more aggressive when it comes to dating. Sometimes I swear it's just a standoff on those sites...like everyone just uploads a profile and sits back waiting for someone to contact them. Last time I started writing to some women just to see what would happen and it turns out, most don't even write back. Maybe I'm just fugly, but I don't think so and I've had relationships in the past.

r281 dont speak on behalf of gay men, you annoying bisexual. Homosexuality is exclusive, so you being into females (regardless of how little in totality of your sexual preference) renders your speech about 'gay' men void. Fuck off bishit.

[quote] Fuck off bishit.

The reality is many gay men aren't really pure Kinsey sixes. Many gay men had sex with girls when they were in their teens, just like I did. I've been men-only for 30 years and have lived gay life my whole adult life. Yes, I'm probably Kinsey 5 or 5.5, but that doesn't exactly make me a practicing bisexual. I'm just honest about it. We've had guys here claiming to be 100 % gay saying they sometimes have sex with girls but that it doesn't mean they're bi. I've had gold star gays as good friends and I can just see them laughing at your silliness.

I've met pure-gay cunts like you before but I've never quite understood the reason for the venom you spew at people you see as being not good enough. Is it envy? Fear? Don't really care. I've met wonderful human beings over the years, gay, straight and bi. Wasting time on poisonous cunts like you whose head is placed firmly in their own ass isn't really worth my time.

You are a bisexual speaking on behalf of gays. I have litterally no issue with bisexuality, only when fucks like you who are duplicitous about it. And im not even a 'gold star gay' you stupid fuck. But I recognise I have no attraction to women, thus making me a homosexual. Its nothing about envy or fear, its the LIE that homosexuality includes a bisexual element. Homosexuality is exclusive, anything other is a varying degree of bisexuality. You are the venomous cunt trying to rewrite what a homosexual is! 'practising' isnt a thing. You either have the capacity for genuine sexual interest in men and women or you dont. God you are fucking stupid. If butch woman get you going, you arent gay, regardless of how many cocks you have ducked in your 30 years of being a 'practicing gay'.

I live for the wailing, bleating, shaming, virtuecratic SJW white "progressive" gay men pretending AS IF they'd date or have sex with a "trans man" !

HI-LARious!