Miss Warwick vs Carole Bayer Sager

The song wouldn't have been a hit had it been solo

The more I hear about Dionne Warwick, the less I like her. Well, I still love her voice. But it stops there.

What happened with her bankruptcy? Did she ever present receipts for her spending money scammed by her from her AIDS charity work?

She was also more vocal about Michael Jackson’s death than she was about her cousin Whitney’s passing.

What gives with her.

[quote]Reading Carole's book and it looks like there was NO love lost between Carole and Dionne. Juicy!

I love that book. She's very careful and subtle about who she's bitchy about.

Just little asides that say so much.

I love her reference to Bette Midler when Carole had a big hit in England with a song they wrote together.

Dionne was a bitch to everybody, which is why she's broke today. Aretha was similar, but she had the talent, respect and financial discipline to overcome it.

R3 Yes, Carole seems to have a little forked tongue.

She directs some subtle but clear shade toward Melissa Manchester and Bette Midler.

Bacharach had plenty of hits with other singers but Dionne Warwick gave his songs a trademark sound. Carole Bayer Sager should have been happy about the millions Warwick earned for him.

[quote]Carole Bayer Sager should have been happy about the millions Warwick earned for him.

She was.

But it was HER idea to give the money to AIDS research. Dionne wasn't keen...as OP stated.

Which book, OP?

Dionne Warwick was a star. Had been recording since around 1962. Every TV variety show, concerts around the world. Mega hit records. A cultural icon. Carole Bayer Sager was nothing in comparison. Who the hell cares about nutty Dionne trying to take undeserved credit for something.

[quote]Carole also says that because she was close friends w/Elizabeth Taylor, it was SHE who suggested that they take That's What Friends Are For, originally a solo song for Dionne's album, and make it a charity record.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but Rod Stewart recorded the song originally.

Or was Dionne planning her own solo recording a few years after Stewart's?

I also felt sorry for Angie Dickinson.

And after getting to know Carol Whoever I felt sorry for Burt.

Then when he divorced the bitch I went back to feeling sorry for Angie.

I'm cheap because Carol Whoever wanted me to cut more records for charity? I wasn't sitting on Burt's pile when she was all "give them this" and "give them that." She was, though. And that ass was loose enough for her to butt-swallow plenty of loot. But that face! She's got those Kim Novak grinning-face lines from having all those skinses pulled too taut.

And I did do more charity, by giving poor Gladys a comeback. Not that she ever thanked me. But you know Gladys. Not so bright.

R8 it's Carole's autobiography.

I also did NOT realize she'd been married to Marvin Hamlisch and that they were the inspiration for DL favorite "They're Playing Our Song."

[quote]Carole Bayer Sager was nothing in comparison.

See R12. She has a Broadway musical about her. What does Miss Warwick have?

[quote]Dionne was a shady bitch to Carole, possessive of the fact that Carole's then husband Bert Bacharach was writing for Carole, and not for Dionne.

Carole's husband was BURT Bacharach. BERT Bacharach was his father.

[quote]I also did NOT realize she'd been married to Marvin Hamlisch and that they were the inspiration for DL favorite "They're Playing Our Song."

They didn't MARRY.

But Carole, although very low key about money in her book, must be rich as a King from all the royalties from so many BIG hits in an era when pop music PAID.

She lives on a "compound" in L.A. and needs a golf cart to get around it.

[quote]Carole Bayer Sager was nothing in comparison.

she was never FLASH and never promoted herself as a celeb and never brags about her success...but she's not nothing.

She also says she has google alert set up, so when people write about her on the internet she reads what they say.

Hi, Carole/gurl!

Burt Bacharach would have been nothing without Dionne singing his songs.

Yes, Dionne is not the nicest person, but in her prime she was one of the most exceptionally talented vocalists you've ever heard.

Dionne foolishly pissed her money away and made questionable career choices. She turned down Barry Manilow, I’m told, when he offered to produce the follow up album to their successful collaboration which spawned I LL NEVER LOVE THIS WAY AGAIN and DEJA VU. She went with Another producer with NO NIGHT SO LONG, which wasn’t nearly as successful. She kept changing up producers with each album, with mixed results. And the whole time, she’s spending money like every album is multi platinum. She even was critical of the Bee Gees after they produced her HEARTBREAKER album. And her Luther Vandross album was a disappointment. I can only imagine what Luther went through with her. He never spoke on it. Then she did her FRIENDS album which was uninspired, save for the title song that she sang with other people. After that, she hardly cracked the Top 40 again. And she’s spending her money with abandon. Signing up with Psychic Friends lined her pockets, but denigrated her brand as a sassy but sophisticated pop diva legend. Her mistakes were her own doing. And what happened with the money that she allegedly raised for BEBASHI and other AIDS organizations designed to help HIV positive people of color?

R19, Love Power says hold my Courvoisier

Dionne should be quite wealthy, given the career she had. She needed much better financial advisors.

[quote]Burt Bacharach would have been nothing without Dionne singing his songs.

No he would NOT. Plenty of other people sang his songs and had huge hits.

Dionne was his muse and was wonderful, but he would still have been a massive success without her.

I'm not sure how well she would have done without him.

Dionne put Burt on the map.

He was already on the map.

But Dionne made him famous.

[quote] Yes, Dionne is not the nicest person

A cuntier cunt has never cunted!

It's an interesting book.

On one hand, Carole is endearing. On the other hand, she's exhaustingly needy and neurotic. She's dependent on men and clearly married the last one for a daddy.

[quote]On the other hand, she's exhaustingly needy and neurotic.

That mother from hell!

"Walk behind me - I don't want people thinking you're mine"

R28 Her mother was a terror especially when she was younger. Called her a fat whore! (well, "fatty")

Burt Bacharach was quite....something.

Dionne claims Carole is her "good friend" here. Mmm hmmm.

Wow. Incredibly poor charting for Bacharach 's songs. I had no idea. Makes me really appreciate the mammoth, gargantuan success of the Motown machine!

R32 Yeah, only a handful of his songs were big radio hits. He was more the writer of songs that intepretive singers would include on their albums.

That being said, I am shocked - SHOCKED - that The Look of Love by Dusty only went to #22. Charts are meaningful in some ways to measure popularity at the time, but they are poor indicators of what will endure.

Her mother was crazy, but they managed to rebuild their relationship and the stories at the end of the book about her elderly mother staying with her and third husband in L.A. are like hilarious episodes of "Golden Girls".

This book should be required reading for all DLers! It’s so dishy and fun. I LOVED it!!!

Rod Stewart's version of That's What Friends Are For plays over the final credits of the film Night Shift.

Dionne would have been nothing without Burt. The miserable twat.

I wonder if Liz thought it was just a bit creepy that her best friend Carole stole her look.

Single white female!

Dionne may have her issues, but Carole's attempts to sing her own songs were as ill-advised as Burt's. Her voice was incredibly thin and weak. Chaka Khan later recorded a version of her lone Top 40 hit and effortlessly killed it.

From a British perspective the only well known Bacharach & David songs that Dionne Warwick is associated with are Walk On By and San Jose.

Cilla Black, Sandie Shaw, The Walker Brothers, Dusty, The Carpenters, Bobbie Gentry, Jackie DeShannon, Aretha, Herb Alpert and Bacharach himself,

Cilla's Alfie kicks Dionne's Alfie in the cunt.

Hard.

Dionne Warwick was never good at singing. It is baffling why people like her so much. Burt song will be a hit if sang by anyone

CB-S seems like a hanger-on. I follow a few old timers on IG and her comments always show up as the default ones (though I don't follow CB-S). Lots of emoji hearts and "Miss you!" comments. She prided herself on the fact that people would mistake her for Liz Taylor. Only Mr. Magoo would've made that mistake.

Thank you r12, I saw a lot of books listed under her name on Amazon but didn't realize most of them were music and songbooks.

R43 Yeah, I can see that.

She had undeniable talent but everything in her life, from her relationships to her songs, seemed to be filtered through or defined by others.

She is the personification of tofu - a person who's only as interesting as the ones around them.

[quote]She had undeniable talent but everything in her life, from her relationships to her songs, seemed to be filtered through or defined by others.

Obviously! She only writes lyrics. She is only as good as the people she collaborates with.

It was Hal Davids lyrics that made Burt's music. Hal David never gets the appreciation he should.

Burt and Carole offered Barbra three songs to her Till I Loved You album. It peaked #10 and sold platinum. Barbra’s voice was thin in this album. Her voice decline didn’t start here and it came stronger. I loved it anyway, still one of my favorite from her, but it was considered weak pop album. This is one of those B&S songs.

OT detail, the album begins with this song produced by Quincy Jones. Dionne and Wandross are singing in background vocal group. Not Burt and Carole’s song.

[quote] Hal David never gets the appreciation he should.

He's dead

Gah, I have to say I am loving the whole ebook thing at the library.

I took this out, flipped through the boring shit, read the good shit and was done in 2 days, and all I had to do to "return" it was click my mouse.

Now I have to see if I can find Burt's autobio.

I know R50 and it doesn't make any difference. He should get the appreciation for his lyrics.

[quote]Now I have to see if I can find Burt's autobio.

That's good - I OP'd a thread about it (see link)

I might re-read it...the thread..I already re-read the book.

I can't believe that thread is 7 years old - my internal timeline is all over the place

[quote]Hal David never gets the appreciation he should.

Some of his lines were such klunkers...that line about his feet being to big for his bed

God, those '80s Streisand songs are awful.

[quote]Dionne Warwick was never good at singing.

What a dope.

Streisand's last decent original album was Guilty

Barbra would have been better if she didn't flourish her singing so much. I've heard a few of her better ones recently and I want to say "pull it back, gurl!" - the song is good your voice is great it's not necessary. Very feminine singer if you like that sort of thing.

Carole is married to Bob Daly, who was head of CBS, Warner Music Group and Paramount. He's worth a fortune and she's been living the life of a queen for decades.

She has shed loads herself, R60. Must have.

She got a good deal out of Burt as well.

I love the way she describes him when she met him - living in some apartment with no furniture, driving a great big 70s car he'd been given for doing a commercial. She soon changed all that.

Too bad Bob Daly looks like 80s Jim Bakker.

Poor Carole had to close her eyes and think of England, honey.

Then again, she got some good Bacharach dick back in the day. She sounds dickmatized a few times in the book.

Motown endures, R33. Bacharach does as well. The 1960s are the best in music. Love.

-R32

Miss Warwick says she doesn’t know who Carol Saggy Bagel is.

She was an attractive woman, but messed up her face with plastic surgery or fillers.

R65 She's the woman who gave Miss W a crisp hundred dollar bill when she was fishing wet ciggy butts off the street.

The more I read about Burt the more I'm convinced he's at least somewhere on the autism/Asperger's continuum.

[quote] having all those skinses pulled too taut.

True, Miss Warwick. If she sneezes her forehead will fly across the room.

I forgot one of the revelations....

When Marvin Hamlisch left her for another woman, it turned out to be Fallon Carrington #2 herself, Emma Samms.

I feel like the king of clickbait scoop but.........

$10 million for a lite adult/boomer oldies catalog of hits. Seems low, but I don't know squat about these things of today.

FFS

I am functionally retarded some mornings

Who was the biggest cunt in the Drinkard family? Jesus nut and rabid homophone Cissy, cheapskate and nasty ass Dionne or permanently angry crackhead Whitney?

[quote]When Marvin Hamlisch left her for another woman, it turned out to be Fallon Carrington #2 herself, Emma Samms.

How Marvin ever scored ANY pussy shows what whores some people are.

When Dionne was first starting out, she was approached by Marty Erlichman(Barbra Streisand's long-time manager) after a show at the Coconut Grove. Marty wanted to manage her, but she blew him off and said that she didn't need any management. That was probably the most costly mistake of her career. Dionne would probably be worth a small fortune today if she had accepted his offer.

Dionne and many of Burt's hits were on Scepter records, an independent label. They didn't have marketing dollars.

[Quote] Burt song will be a hit if sang by anyone

Richard Chamberlain says "Hi!"

Burt was one of those songwriters who desperately wanted to be a singer. But he had an AWFUL singing voice.

He didn't desperately want to be a singer. His first album has most of the vocals handled by the Breakways. He also enlisted Joel Grey and Tony Middleton for a couple of numbers, and an unidentified child for "Saturday Sunshine." It would be more correct to say that he recognized how audiences favor singers.

*Breakaways.

[quote]He didn't desperately want to be a singer.

I remember seeing Burt sing A LOT on TV. Even a duet with Streisand.

He had a wretched voice and NEVER should have sung in public.

I don't disagree about Burt's voice. But people wanted his face on TV, hence he became a "singer."

They wanted MY face on their TVs, not that white man!

Burt's autobio has sections written by others (e.g. Carole, Angie Dickinson). One section notes that when Burt took Angie to a Dionne concert, Dionne emerged on stage in a blonde wig, not seen before or since...

[quote] she was never FLASH and never promoted herself as a celeb and never brags about her success...but she's not nothing.

The comment was nothing in comparison to Dionne Warwick. Love her or hate her, Warwick was one of the best vocalists in popular music. Bayer-Sager is a songwriter and wrote really great songs with both Melissa Manchester and Burt Bacharach. She is very wealthy. Indeed, she is not 'nothing' but as a singer she does not compare to Warwick -- and she would agree.

B&B.

[quote] Then she did her FRIENDS album which was uninspired, save for the title song that she sang with other people.

OMG!!! "Friends" is a FANTASTIC album. The title song was the gimmick. The rest is Warwick at her most assured - "Whisper In The Dark", "Stronger Than Before", "Extravagant Gestures", "Love at Second Sight", "How Long?" I love that album. One of her best efforts at Arista. She was peerless for that type of adult-contemporary soulful pop. The world had moved on by 1985 and there was no place for artists like Warwick on radio.

Carole Bayer Sager co-wrote two songs with The Corrs - I Never Loved You Anyway and this song.

Did Carole and Burt try to get Peter Allen to give up his rights to "caught between the moon and New York City"? He'd written it for an earlier collaboration with Bayer Sager.

[quote] Dionne Warwick was never good at singing. It is baffling why people like her so much. Burt song will be a hit if sang by anyone

You're an idiot. Bacharach himself has said NO ONE but Dionne could sing his songs the way he wrote, arranged and orchestrated them. Others could sing them with keys lowered and much more modest arrangements. He is a musician and he found the voice that allowed his musicianship to soar. Who else even attempted "Promises, Promises" with Bacharach's original arrangement and tempo?

Jerry Orbach?

Dionne wisely sang "Knowing When to Leave" slower than Jill O'Hara had to in the original cast of "Promises, Promises."

[quote] When Dionne was first starting out, she was approached by Marty Erlichman(Barbra Streisand's long-time manager) after a show at the Coconut Grove. Marty wanted to manage her, but she blew him off and said that she didn't need any management. That was probably the most costly mistake of her career. Dionne would probably be worth a small fortune today if she had accepted his offer.

Never heard that story. I can't imagine Streisand would have allowed it. Besides Streisand, did Erlichman manage any other successful artists?

I already heard all this on Psychic Friends Network.

How would Dionne Warwick have been a rival to Streisand?

Dionne has made a fortune and spent a fortune. It is what it is.

R87 God, how I hate songs recorded in the '80s! Those cheesy synthesizers and bad drum machines.

[quote]Did Carole and Burt try to get Peter Allen to give up his rights to "caught between the moon and New York City"? He'd written it for an earlier collaboration with Bayer Sager.

Peter Allen came up with the line while on a plane under a full moon as the plane crossed over Manhattan. He didn't know what to do with it. He told Carole the line and she remembered it. When writing the Theme to Arthur, she called him and asked if she could use it. He told her only if she gave him a writing credit. She was a little pissed off about that. But it is how he got an Oscar.

R97, cheesy synthesizers ARE 80s music. It's coming back around. Everything on radio today sounds 80s inspired.

She had gall to be pissed. It's the line everyone remembers.

[Quote] Everything on radio today sounds 80s inspired.

Yep.

Peter Allen and Carole never made amends for "Don't Cry Out Loud", one of the most miserable songs of all time. Poor Melissa...

"I'm not sure how well she would have done without him."

Fortunately, we have the historical evidence...

It's strange that Dionne never did an album with Thom Bell after "Then Came You." She probably fucked it up by insulting him or something.

[quote]Burt was one of those songwriters who desperately wanted to be a singer. But he had an AWFUL singing voice.

Hey -- that didn't stop me from going to #1 on the Hot 100 with a Bacharach/David song.

R103, Once You Hit The Road is as solid as any of her Arista stuff IMHO.

Carole BS teamed up with Eurhythmic Dave Stewart for the Grace Of My Heart soundtrack.

For a song written in the 90s, I Do sounds less like a pastiche/homage to the Brill Building days and more like a cover of a classic.

Probably my third favourite song on the GOMH soundtrack after God Give Me Strength and lesbian denial ballad My Secret Love.

Herb's voice was superb in comparison to Burt's and he pulled that song off brilliantly, R105.

[quote][R97], cheesy synthesizers ARE 80s music. It's coming back around. Everything on radio today sounds 80s inspired.

Are you claiming this to be a GOOD thing?

Just saw Carole's Twitter and, well, someone has borrowed Brendad Ickson's filters for her photos.....

but no link from R110. RUDE!

Whatever happens to her is Karma. She deserve her bankruptcy.

filter madness

Beto and the other guy (hubby?) look like crap. And she looks unreal.

That photo should be DL photo of the week.

People are so vain these days they'd rather look weird than their age.

She looks seriously wonk eyed there.