Hello and thank you for being a DL contributor. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Please click here to update your account with a username and password.

Hello. Some features on this site require registration. Please click here to register for free.

Hello and thank you for registering. Please complete the process by verifying your email address. If you can't find the email you can resend it here.

Hello. Some features on this site require a subscription. Please click here to get full access and no ads for $1.99 or less per month.

The Falcon and The Winter Soldier: Marvels First Interracial Couple

Starts March 19th. I've heard rumors that the show will deal with racial issues within the MCU, such as how the government react to a black man becoming Captain America. I hope we get some flashbacks to Bucky's past and watch him deal with the psychological damage of being Hydras sleeper assassin. I am a little worried it won't push the boundaries of the MCU as much as WandaVision did.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 444May 22, 2021 9:15 PM

THIS is what worries you?

by Anonymousreply 1March 11, 2021 2:15 PM

Trust Kevin Feige.

by Anonymousreply 2March 11, 2021 3:14 PM

I thought it was called the Falcon and the Snowman?

by Anonymousreply 3March 11, 2021 3:15 PM

How can the Falcon become Captain America? He has no powers. It would make much more sense for Bucky to take the shield as he has the same supersoldier abilities as Steve Rogers.......... I need to get a life.

by Anonymousreply 4March 11, 2021 3:41 PM

R4

It’s inspired by the comics. He became Captain America in the comics.

by Anonymousreply 5March 11, 2021 3:45 PM

I don't think this will disappoint. I'm completely geeking out and counting the days.

by Anonymousreply 6March 11, 2021 3:46 PM

[quote]Marvels First Interracial Couple

I bet they take turns calling each other Steve.

by Anonymousreply 7March 11, 2021 4:09 PM

[quote] It’s inspired by the comics. He became Captain America in the comics.

Sure, but in the context of the MCU thus far, Sam Wilson is just a regular guy who knows how to work the Falcon suit. It doesn’t make any more sense to give it to him than it would have to give it to Tony Stark.

by Anonymousreply 8March 11, 2021 5:50 PM

I just hope the white guy takes the black guy up the ass. And I don't mean this racially. I have been friends with and have been fucked by many black men.

by Anonymousreply 9March 11, 2021 6:16 PM

When's it my turn to be Steve?

by Anonymousreply 10March 11, 2021 6:33 PM

Back of the line, bitch.

by Anonymousreply 11March 12, 2021 10:41 AM

Wasn't expecting a Hobbit reference in the show.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 12March 12, 2021 8:26 PM

Winter Soldier would be a much better Cap - a super soldier and out of his time, plus extra angst to go for his redemption. Obviously, there was no way it wasn't going to be Falcon now. and they've both done it in the comics, along with USAgent, who got there first.

by Anonymousreply 13March 12, 2021 9:58 PM

Maybe its Falcon and the Winter Soldier together because they'll come to agree to both 'captain' the defense of America. To possibly set up something like Falcon being the officialized Captain America later, but lets say, he dies and the shield gets taken up by a hesitant Bucky.

Both Falcon and Winter Soldier have PTSD and the show may initially sideline, but then deal with it because they need to in order to stop Zemo. Its what's keeping either of them from asserting a bigger role in things. Falcon is more mundane in his stress but more overwhelmed by the growing weirdness around him, Winter Soldier is more intense in his stress but more capable of handling the super weirdness. They'll give Falcon his Captain America title for a while - whether just this show or later - then give it to Bucky, then be done with both of them because both will be well into their forties.

Its always been okay for a non superpowered to be in the Avengers because it is a SHIELD initiative at its core (so, its agents or assets), and being masterful in particularly combative ways is still of great use. And all of the other Avengers have their own weaknesses or shortcomings too, that a basic human with high ability might help with. But its MCU's failing in not showcasing much of that to us. The first Avengers film should have had Black Widow sneaking around to deal with alien invader leadership, not in the middle of Time's Square. Hopefully the future knows how to better treat characters like Falcon.

by Anonymousreply 14March 12, 2021 10:46 PM

Bucky couldn't be Captain America within the MCU because of his history, that due to the events of Winter Soldier, that is out there for the world to see. Having a black man becoming Captain America would be a hard enough pill for the public to swallow, now imagine an ex-sleeper cell assassin that was brainwashed by the nazis and deprogramed in an African country, they'd never go for it.

I think a Bucky solo show, dealing with the psychological damage of his time as the Winter Soldier and finding his place in the world would be much more interesting than a buddy-cop type of show.

by Anonymousreply 15March 13, 2021 12:11 AM

[quote] I hope we get some flashbacks to Bucky's past and watch him deal with the psychological damage of being Hydras sleeper assassin.

We do, in very far reaching ways. They set up some very intriguing stakes in the first ep.

[quote]I am a little worried it won't push the boundaries of the MCU as much as WandaVision did.

It will, and then some. A lot more action in this one.

by Anonymousreply 16March 13, 2021 12:32 AM

Wait, they’re gay? I don’t remember them being gay.

by Anonymousreply 17March 13, 2021 12:45 AM

R16 Is the supposed surprise cameo someone from Buckys time as the winter soldier? Because I've got a feeling I know who it is.

by Anonymousreply 18March 13, 2021 12:51 AM

[quote]Wait, they’re gay? I don’t remember them being gay.

I remember all the characters being gay.

by Anonymousreply 19March 13, 2021 2:33 AM

You just know Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackie slobbered all over each other's cocks throughout the entire shooting of this series.

by Anonymousreply 20March 13, 2021 8:48 AM

For some inexplicable reason - there's certainly no textual evidence - I kinda think Bucky is bi/gay. Maybe it's just because there's something pseudo-romantic about his relationship with Cap. Although I don't think Cap is queer so go figure.

by Anonymousreply 21March 13, 2021 1:37 PM

Wouldn't Bucky be deeply homophobic due to the beliefs of homosexuality in his original time?

by Anonymousreply 22March 13, 2021 10:21 PM

Yes, let's be very realistic about the hundred-year-old brainwashed supersoldier with the cybernetic arm.

by Anonymousreply 23March 14, 2021 11:48 AM

Not everyone was a raging homophobe in the 30s, R22. Obviously.

by Anonymousreply 24March 14, 2021 1:33 PM

Looking damn good!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 25March 15, 2021 1:15 PM

I was thinking how clever it is that the music evokes the score from Captain America and The Winter Soldier. And then I learned it's by the same guy. : p

by Anonymousreply 26March 15, 2021 2:12 PM

Now the Marvel franchise is going to be about race? Jesus. Give it a break. How about just mindless entertainment?

by Anonymousreply 27March 15, 2021 2:14 PM

R27 is triggered

by Anonymousreply 28March 15, 2021 2:32 PM

I hope they fuck.

by Anonymousreply 29March 15, 2021 2:39 PM

OP, you should have titled the thread “The Falcon And Captain America’s Butt Boy Bucky”

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 30March 15, 2021 3:41 PM

No R28, maybe R27 is just sick of your tired ass and your race baiting. And do am I.

by Anonymousreply 31March 15, 2021 3:56 PM

[quote] And do am I.

Try again hon.

We know you can do it.

by Anonymousreply 32March 15, 2021 3:58 PM

Tangential, but last night I watched Synchronic, a drama with a sci-fi twist starring Anthony Mackie. It was pretty good although I didn't like it as much as the previous movie from these film makers, The Endless. These guys are very interesting writer/directors and are slated to direct the Moon Knight show. I have no particular interest in the character of Moon Knight but knowing these guys are on board has me curious.

by Anonymousreply 33March 17, 2021 12:31 PM

Ran across Entertainment Weekly's split-screen press for this on Insta yesterday. Stan has lost too much weight and muscle mass. He had big Elvis hair to try to distract from the fact that his face was sunken in. Maybe he's caught COVID since they finished shooting?

by Anonymousreply 34March 17, 2021 1:36 PM

Sebastian Stan is naturally a skinny guy.

by Anonymousreply 35March 17, 2021 1:54 PM

It's got to be rough on your body to temporarily make yourself look like a comic book hero with steroids and HGH.

by Anonymousreply 36March 17, 2021 3:35 PM

I was watching an interview with both of them and noticed Stan had lost weight around his face and looked older for it, might be for a role.

by Anonymousreply 37March 17, 2021 4:57 PM

Sebastian is normally pretty lean, and if that Tommy Lee and Pam Anderson thing is really going forward, he’s likely slimming down a bit for that.

by Anonymousreply 38March 17, 2021 10:19 PM

I had forgotten he was going to play TLee, R38. It makes sense now, why he'd be so much skinner. Thanks!

by Anonymousreply 39March 17, 2021 10:59 PM

To play Tommy Lee he's having the extra bulk moved to his dick.

by Anonymousreply 40March 18, 2021 12:33 AM

I can't wait.... only two more days!

by Anonymousreply 41March 18, 2021 5:02 AM

I viscerally hate R27. They're being true to the characters and the culture by addressing the way things would happen head-on. Dumbass.

by Anonymousreply 42March 18, 2021 5:03 AM

I really enjoyed the first episode. Highlighted some things I wasn't expecting, like racial micro-aggressions, and some stuff I did expect like the Winter Soldier stuff. It was definitely more of a Sam heavy episode and I get why but I would've liked to have seen more of Bucky.

by Anonymousreply 43March 19, 2021 11:05 AM

I do wonder if they put that scene of Bucky flirting with the waitress so that the viewers wouldn't question if he was gay or straight. Having two male leads with good chemistry must frighten Disney.

by Anonymousreply 44March 19, 2021 2:41 PM

Sebastian Stan, shirtless within 17 minutes of the start of the show. Giving the people what they want.

The first episode was a look at the societal circumstances following the Blip, subtle racism and survivor’s guilt. Some surprising emotional moments and some ridiculous ones, though nobody expects the laws of physics to be obeyed in a Marvel show.

by Anonymousreply 45March 19, 2021 3:46 PM

Sam's sister is definitely Mephisto.

by Anonymousreply 46March 19, 2021 10:10 PM

Don't have a clue on what comics this is based on, but the end of the first episode is Sam pissed that the president picked a white dude (and not him) to bring back Captain America?

by Anonymousreply 47March 20, 2021 5:28 AM

R44 It doesn't work. We know all about the bis now. People can and will fantasize them as bi and together.

by Anonymousreply 48March 20, 2021 6:17 AM

R47 I think it's that and that he mistakenly trusted the government. When he gave them the shield I think he was under the assumption that it would be kept on display to remind people of the real Captain America, the government instead have twisted what Steve stood for and used the shield for jingoism again, like it was originally intended for in WW2.

by Anonymousreply 49March 20, 2021 10:03 AM

r49, thank you. Now I remember the scene in the museum with US war & patriotism propaganda featuring Captain America. Quite chilling.

by Anonymousreply 50March 20, 2021 10:25 AM

Wow that aerial sequence was impressive. After WandaVision I was in the mood for some action and this delivered.

Is this actually the first time we've seen Sam and Rhodey have a conversation? Wouldn't mind more of that.

A little heavy-handed with the family money problems, but I'll take it more as a hint about the economic chaos that followed The Snap and The Blip. Grim thought: If the world's population doubles overnight, a lot of people are going to starve to death.

They got a surprising amount of comedy out of Bucky and I'm not sure what I think about that. The MCU has a tendency to get glib with its humor but on the other (metal) hand I don't want the show to be unrelentingly dour.

I like that the show is taking its time to set things up, but maybe we could get the main characters in the same city soon? They're never going to kiss at this rate. ; )

by Anonymousreply 51March 20, 2021 11:00 AM

I thought the same thing r44. They made sure to quickly establish that Bucky is into girls. Given some of the online shipping antics around him I'm sure they felt that was important.

I expected this to be more of a generic superhero show, and it started off that way. But devoting a lot of screen time to seeing Sam's family struggling to keep it together and how even as a superhero he is still a black man asking for a loan at a bank is some depth I didn't expect.

by Anonymousreply 52March 21, 2021 3:07 AM

It wasn't very believable to me the US government would want a white cis man to be the next Captain America.

Now, if an episode ended with Laverne Cox chosen as the next Captain America, that I could believe.

by Anonymousreply 53March 21, 2021 3:11 AM

Bucky was only gay for Steve r52.

They had greatest love story in the Marvel universe.

by Anonymousreply 54March 21, 2021 3:20 AM

After many years of seeing Tony Stark's unlimited wealth, it was interesting that they showed us that for some heroes - even though they helped save the universe last month, they still can't get a bank loan this month.

by Anonymousreply 55March 21, 2021 3:19 PM

Now THAT is Americas ass!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 56March 24, 2021 2:54 PM

Why must any show featuring black people ultimately be about race? Why can't a black person be interviewed on a news program about something other than race? Turn on CNN or MSNBC and you can bet that a great majority of the time that a black person is on to talk about race. How about an economist? A real doctor ( not the Trump version)? How about an inventor? Now we have to sit through a movie that should be mindless entertainment and get hit over the head with fucking race issues? Hopefully, it is not in the film.

by Anonymousreply 57March 24, 2021 4:24 PM

Pretending that race doesn't matter is childish story telling r57. I'm glad this show is embracing that Falcon is a black guy, If he tried to be the new Cap, it would be seen first and foremost as a black guy trying to Captain America. And you want the show to ignore that?

by Anonymousreply 58March 24, 2021 4:35 PM

Can't we just have a film where the black hero is just accepted for who he is without having to bring up the fact that he's black and have controversy over it in the film? after all, it is mindless entertainment and these are fictional characters. How about he claims the role of Captain America and not have to deal with the racial discussion? Wouldn't that be much more "progressive"?

by Anonymousreply 59March 24, 2021 7:27 PM

The first episode was kinda boring.

by Anonymousreply 60March 24, 2021 7:32 PM

Bucky was on top this week and they both got between each other's legs. Now that's progress.

Next week: an orgy with USGaygent and Bottomstar.

by Anonymousreply 61March 26, 2021 10:37 PM

This is turning into the gayest show on TV and I'm here for it.

by Anonymousreply 62March 26, 2021 10:44 PM

[quote] I am a little worried it won't push the boundaries of the MCU as much as WandaVision did.

They should reveal that The Falcon is a practising North African Moslem called Hussein. And then make him "Captain America". Now that would "push boundaries", lol.

by Anonymousreply 63March 26, 2021 11:35 PM

Sam and Bucky were very...close...in this episode

MORE

by Anonymousreply 64March 27, 2021 12:40 AM

Sebastian Stan got fat for The Devil All The Time and I’m glad he’s slimmed down. I think he’s delicious and want more! Remember the old DL post saying he’s bi and gives great head? The poster also said he was doing tons of coke.

by Anonymousreply 65March 27, 2021 6:22 AM

Does anybody else think Wyatt Russell is an uggo? I wish they’d have hired a hot actor to play John Walker/New Cap. He looks like he doesn’t have any teeth.

by Anonymousreply 66March 27, 2021 7:07 AM

Best part was when that kid asked Sam if he was “Black Falcon” and Sam asked him if he was “black kid”?

by Anonymousreply 67March 27, 2021 7:45 AM

Wyatt should be much hotter given who his parents are. He’s not ugly, but not gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 68March 27, 2021 7:50 AM

Wyatt was great in Overlord and Lodge 49.

by Anonymousreply 69March 27, 2021 7:53 AM

Overlord sucks donkey balls.

I think Wyatt Russell is hot, and an okay actor.

by Anonymousreply 70March 27, 2021 1:20 PM

Wyatt has the perfect face for the character, a lesser Steve Roger's in every way.

by Anonymousreply 71March 27, 2021 1:34 PM

I'm still upset that Lodge 49 was cancelled. I loved that show. And it ended on a cliffhanger!

by Anonymousreply 72March 27, 2021 1:46 PM

Surely they won't make the new Captain America a bad guy like Homelander from The Boys?

by Anonymousreply 73March 27, 2021 3:38 PM

I'm enjoying it.

It's a bit more character-driven - if you can say that about comic book movies - than the typical Marvel fare.

The new Captain America - Wyatt Russell - is not nearly as hot as his half-brother or his father. He is, however, turning in a solid performance.

by Anonymousreply 74March 27, 2021 4:01 PM

I thought it was funny that the government had created an exact mirror of the captain America image, including the black sidekick.

My theory is New Cola Captain America loses a big battle, decides to take the super-soldier serum, starts off doing really well, the flagsmashers release a virus into the population that causes a form of madness in a percentage of the people it infects (this was the original concept for Cap 3 before it turned into Civil War), Walker is sent in to deal with some people infected by the virus and brutally kills an innocent, infected person due to super soldier roid rage. Sharon has been working with Zemo and has been following the flagsmashers. Zemo and Sharon look for a viral antidote while Sam and Bucky take on roid Captain America. Walker is subdued and stripped of the captain America title, the people and not the government decide to title Sam as Captain America, Bucky finishes his list and decides to take on a more heroic role and work with Sharon and Zemo is visited by Gen. Ross who is putting together the thunderbolts.

by Anonymousreply 75March 27, 2021 4:16 PM

Bucky will realize that he will never be happy in the modern world with Steve, and go back to Wakanda, the only place that he has ever found peace, and help Princess Shuri as she ascends as the new Black Panther in BLACK PANTHER 2.

by Anonymousreply 76March 27, 2021 4:21 PM

R76 I think the original plan was for him to appear in Black Panther 2 but with the addition of the disney+ shows allowing the characters to be expanded in their own titles and BP2 dealing with writing out T'Chala, I don't see him making an appearance outside of a cameo. Sam will get his own title movie depending on the success of Falcon and Winter Soldier and Bucky will get his own Disney+ show with Sharon co-starring.

by Anonymousreply 77March 27, 2021 5:45 PM

Wyatt Russell in a recent interview said that he actually auditioned for the role of Steve Rogers/Captain America which would eventually go to Chris Evans.

by Anonymousreply 78March 27, 2021 5:51 PM

I think every leading guy type went for Captain America, John Kransinski was close to getting it when Evan's initially turned the role down.

by Anonymousreply 79March 27, 2021 5:52 PM

I read somewhere that Will Smith was considered too. That would have been an interesting take. Though he's too old from a franchise perspective.

[quote]Surely they won't make the new Captain America a bad guy like Homelander from The Boys?

I appreciate that they are giving him a lot of good qualities with the only bad quality so far that he's a little smug or entitled or whatever word you want to use. However I'm expecting him to take a turn and I just hope it's done with nuance. I don't know his comics history but based on what they've set up so far, my bet is that he goes all "the end justifies the means," probably so he can get his own dose of the super soldier serum.

Incidentally it's a little weird to me that the government chose an un-enhanced dude as the new Captain. Surely they've got some supers up their sleeve.

by Anonymousreply 80March 27, 2021 7:18 PM

The new rumor floating around is that Cavill is being considered for Captain Britain after being treated like crap by DC.

I can see Marvel "retiring" Captain America for a while, as well as leaving room for Chris Evans to cameo here and there.

Personally, given the Wandavision and Dr. Strange multiverse storylines, I wouldn't mind seeing an Evil Steve Rogers done by Chris Evans.

by Anonymousreply 81March 27, 2021 7:26 PM

R80 Lets just say that he has some"issues" but yes he is more violent than Steve Rogers. In the comics USAgent and Hawkeye didn't always get along and have fought each other.

by Anonymousreply 82March 27, 2021 7:51 PM

I didn't care for the first Captain America a lot of times either

by Anonymousreply 83March 27, 2021 8:03 PM

Bucky was very obviously in unrequited love with Steve Rogers and he has no idea who he is or what he wants now that he can't follow Steve into battle every five minutes.

I will be so grossed out if they pair him romantically with Sharon. That didn't work when they tried it with Steve, and it won't work for Bucky. It's not Sharon's fault. Marvel backed themselves into a corner--no other character can compete with the chemistry between Bucky and Steve, and after basing three entire movies around the importance of that dynamic, who's going to buy in to a relationship between Bucky and an underwritten female character that most fans already dislike?

Sam and Bucky as a couple do nothing for me. Their bond is the love and admiration (and now, grief) they have for Steve. Sam is really Bucky's only lifeline to the contemporary world and I don't think there's really any sexual aspect to that, although yes, episode 2 was super fucking gay and they're both smoking hot. I hope by the end of the series they're friends in their own right. Bucky needs a friend, period, and Sam needs someone like Bucky by his side who will believe in him as much as Steve did.

Related question: This is the most press I've watched Sebastian Stan do. Has he always been barely able to cobble together a sentence?

by Anonymousreply 84March 29, 2021 8:48 PM

Ok, nobody seriously believes that the show would go there and make Bucky gay or even bi, right? This is all harmless shipping right now.

by Anonymousreply 85March 30, 2021 4:31 PM

Tumblr fangirls, maybe, R85. But no one else.

by Anonymousreply 86March 30, 2021 4:41 PM

No, it's just fun to think about.

by Anonymousreply 87March 30, 2021 6:19 PM

[quote]Bucky was very obviously in unrequited love with Steve Rogers and he has no idea who he is or what he wants now that he can't follow Steve into battle every five minutes.

Here's the thing. Their relationship was based on their childhood friendship - a friendship based on Steve being small, weak, and the target of bullies.

I've never understood the theory that Bucky had some unrequited love for Steve.

by Anonymousreply 88March 30, 2021 6:23 PM

Maybe their dynamic changed when Steve didn't need looking out for.

Stucky is a many-splendored thing.

by Anonymousreply 89March 30, 2021 6:30 PM

Yeah, R88, but that dynamic changed within the first 30 minutes of the first Cap movie. Steve and Bucky experienced a total role reversal, and Bucky spent the next 2.5 films fulfilling every "damsel in distress" trope that exists, while Steve became his white knight. Bucky does little else but stare googly-eyed at Steve and allowed himself to be dramatically rescued over and over. Watch the scene where Cap pulls down the helicopter while Bucky's trying to escape. Bucky looks at him with the horniest fucking expression, I actually laughed in when I saw it in theatres. I don't even think it counts as subtext, it's so blatant, although I doubt the Russo brothers would recognize it as such.

They were childhood friends, true, but that friendship matured into adulthood. They were in their mid-20s and living together before Bucky enlisted. I'm not even a diehard Stucky shipper, but their gayness is LOUD. Regardless of what the writers or directors intended, the impact is that the characters read as having a degree of intimacy with each other to which no one else compares. I understand why fans were pissed that all 3 Cap movies revolved around Steve's love for Bucky, only for Steve to dump him in Wakanda and then ditch him to go back in time to be with Peggy. It was a pretty jarring narrative shift... although there are far worse things about Infinity War and Endgame, IMO.

by Anonymousreply 90March 30, 2021 9:19 PM

Not to mention Bucky has never had a love interest and until the last two minutes of Endgame Steve only had a token love interest in the conveniently unavailable Peggy Carter, who he could occasionally get wistful about in between the many references to him not dating women.

I might be becoming a shipper. Dammit I'm too old for this shit.

Eh, fuck it. Stuggy throuple is my new head canon.

by Anonymousreply 91March 30, 2021 10:34 PM

Zemo is delightfully droll in the third episode.

Sharon Carter is an ass kicker who rivals Bucky.

Anthony Mackie, shirtless, giving the people what the want.

An old, but inevitable, acquaintance shows up to deal with unfinished business.

by Anonymousreply 92April 2, 2021 2:39 PM

Jesus. I should sue Marvel for whacking me so hard over the head with the "Sharon is the Power Broker!" hints that I suffered a head injury.

by Anonymousreply 93April 2, 2021 4:15 PM

Be kind to our Sharon, she's doing her best. Bless.

by Anonymousreply 94April 2, 2021 10:06 PM

Bucky is headed down a pretty dangerous path, IMO... John Walker put a stop to his therapy, and the first thing Bucky does is make a series of self-destructive decisions. He's playing with fire, which is always a narrative time bomb in a character who barely feels like he has a reason to live, is volatile and isolated. He seems to have some kind of deal or plan with Wakanda re: Zemo, and I hope it doesn't backfire. I think Bucky is particularly vulnerable to manipulation and deceit right now, especially after going back into the Winter Soldier's headspace. Sam is the only person looking out for Bucky, and he can only do so much since Bucky won't listen or let his guard down.

They've opened up several cans of worms in this episode. I'm interested to see how they wrap up it all up in just three more episodes.

by Anonymousreply 95April 2, 2021 11:40 PM

Bitchy, heavy drinking Sharon doing illegal things and beating in people in Mandripoor is the most interesting that character has ever been. Hope to see more of that!

Also, Mackie could be shirtless more. That was hot. I truly appreciate the hours these Marvel guys put in at the gym, they look hot as fuck.

Agree with you, R95. You can see how easily Bucky slips back into being Winter Soldier. And how much he loathes himself for it. The patrons in the Brass Monkey, with their cameras focused on his performance, definitely fucked his pardon in the asshole.

I'm glad he admitted to Sam he knew that he had sacrificed by going along with Steve to help him. It obviously means more to him than he feels he deserves, from anyone.

I'm excited for Ayo's part in all this. I wonder if they are going to try to start easing in Chadwick's death, and the alterations in the Black Panther storyline? That isn't going to be easy and I'm interested to see how it will pan out.

Seeing Madripoor from the Wolverine comics come to life like that was amazing, by the way.

by Anonymousreply 96April 5, 2021 1:15 AM

[quote]Seeing Madripoor from the Wolverine comics come to life like that was amazing, by the way.

Next year in Latveria!

by Anonymousreply 97April 5, 2021 1:25 AM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz unwatchable.....and u know why.....

by Anonymousreply 98April 5, 2021 2:29 AM

Sebastian is hot hot hot !!!!

by Anonymousreply 99April 5, 2021 2:30 AM

Agree, R99

by Anonymousreply 100April 5, 2021 3:30 AM

He the only reason i watch it,

by Anonymousreply 101April 5, 2021 4:08 AM

I am reminded again that Emily Van Camp would have been a better Captain Marvel.

They spent a good amount of time establishing Madripoor. Do we know if they are planning to return there in a future property?

I'm enjoying the low-key ways that Bucky is a grouchy old man. His reluctance to discuss music post-1945 was cute.

by Anonymousreply 102April 5, 2021 4:37 PM

Not enough shirtlessness from Sebastian Stan!!

by Anonymousreply 103April 5, 2021 5:06 PM

[quote]Seeing Madripoor

When they said it, I thought they said "Majipoor" as in Lord Valentine's Castle by Robert Silverberg.

by Anonymousreply 104April 5, 2021 5:12 PM

Total nerd reference r104

by Anonymousreply 105April 5, 2021 5:22 PM

I really surprised DL seems to have missed the comments about Bucky seeing a lot of Tiger pics while trying online dating.

by Anonymousreply 106April 6, 2021 12:08 AM

Probably because he asked out the female bartender, R106. At least, it kept me from saying anything, as I assumed it was just gaybaiting. You think they'd go for a bi-Bucky, for real?

by Anonymousreply 107April 6, 2021 12:47 AM

I didn't even know this was a thing.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 108April 6, 2021 2:10 AM

The tigers are sedated. It's gross af.

by Anonymousreply 109April 6, 2021 2:25 AM

I didn't get the 'tiger' reference.

by Anonymousreply 110April 6, 2021 3:56 AM

In the X-comics there's a major Madripoor character called Tyger Tyger.

by Anonymousreply 111April 6, 2021 9:12 AM

Tyger Tyger is woman.

And not a tranny. A real woman.

by Anonymousreply 112April 6, 2021 12:46 PM

[quote]Tyger Tyger is woman.

*swipes left*

by Anonymousreply 113April 6, 2021 1:10 PM

I had forgotten about Tyger Tyger! Ha.

Three episodes left of this left, then the making of FAWS, and onto Loki.

How soon until John Walker goes batshit and starts killing civilians? I think episode 5 and he tries to pin his shenanigans on Bucky, who was recently filmed Solidering in Madripoor. The government will blame him until Walker goes entirely, publicly off the deep end. Maybe then they'll try to make it up to Bucky and off him the shield? Which I guess he'll give to Sam so he can sail off in that boat from the previews.

by Anonymousreply 114April 6, 2021 2:49 PM

It really wouldn't surprise me for Marvel to do a Bi-Bucky. They've been pretty adamant that they plan to start casting more minorities and actual LGBT people. I forget which Eternal it is, but one of them is going to be a gay man played by a gay actor. No, it isn't Richard Madden. lol

by Anonymousreply 115April 6, 2021 9:59 PM

Gay characters will never fly in China r115

Lol

Moron

by Anonymousreply 116April 6, 2021 10:43 PM

R115 Phastos is rumored to be the gay character in the Eternals movie played by Brian Tyree Henry. Who as of right now has not come out as being not straight.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 117April 6, 2021 10:55 PM

They definitely baited us with the possibility Bi-Bucky for the first two episodes. I can see them going there in the TV shows but making no references to it in films so that they can keep getting them through China's censors. Assuming they keep Bucky around for future films, which they seem keen to do. I think there are still a few movies left on Sebastian's contract, and Bucky is a fan favorite like Loki.

A Thunderbolts movie with Bucky at the helm could be cool.

by Anonymousreply 118April 6, 2021 10:59 PM

stan alone keeps me watchin it....he awesome.

by Anonymousreply 119April 6, 2021 11:07 PM

It's weird there are only three episodes left. This story does not feel like it's at its midpoint.

by Anonymousreply 120April 6, 2021 11:20 PM

Loki I could see being bi. IDK about Bucky. If he didn't confess his violent love for Steve and beg him for a fuck, what makes you guys think he's gonna settle for a lesser dude from the apps, lol. I mean...please let's think about how sweet Evans' ass looked in these films.

by Anonymousreply 121April 6, 2021 11:48 PM

Ugh...moronic straight cunt woman shipper ^^^

FF R121

by Anonymousreply 122April 6, 2021 11:52 PM

I'm a guy, R122, and was only joking. Except about how great Evans body looked. That was 100% true.

by Anonymousreply 123April 6, 2021 11:55 PM

You’re still a moronic twat

Lol

by Anonymousreply 124April 6, 2021 11:59 PM

Drunk Lass is at it again.

by Anonymousreply 125April 7, 2021 12:06 AM

R117 I guess that either Marvel changed their minds or ended up outing BTH.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 126April 7, 2021 12:29 AM

Did you notice that move when Zemo offered Bucky up to that bar owner, and said he'd give her the codes to control him, how Zemo circled behind Bucky and then rubbed his cheek and chin like he owned him. I mean owned him like in a "daddy" way, like he was loaning out his boytoy. SPOILERS/SPECULATION AHEAD. Stop here if you want to stay out of the loop

People on Reddit and other sites are saying that a director said that an upcoming episode (5?) will make viewers cry and the spec is that Chadwick Boseman filmed a sequence for the series and will show up to avenge his father's death. I know I will cry if it's true.

by Anonymousreply 127April 7, 2021 12:42 AM

Sebastian Stan fancasting as young Luke Skywalker!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 128April 7, 2021 12:57 AM

R127, yeah, I think that's always been the subtext for Winter Soldier--he was HYDRA's rentboy, and all of the experimentation and torture he underwent for 70+ years was bound to include sexual abuse. Which is not to say that that's the cause of Bucky's potential bisexuality... Just something that already existed and was exploited to HYDRA's benefit.

I also thought it was interesting that Sharon Carter sarcastically referred to Bucky as "Mr. America--Cap's Best Friend." She may as well have called him "Steve's bitch" to his face.

Anyway, I don't think Bucky knows who he is or what he wants enough to say that he's gay, bi, or otherwise. But I hope he finds a thread to hang on to before series is up. I agree with those who feel like we haven't covered enough ground to be at the halfway point. I enjoy the show, but the pace and plotting are a little messy and unclear... Maybe some of that's due to COVID, maybe some of that's because they needed 8 episodes to tell the story instead of 6. We'll see.

by Anonymousreply 129April 7, 2021 2:10 AM

He was a HYDRA's assassin for hire and was offered as that to the bar owner. As an assassin and muscle for hire.

To break his mind (and then build him up in HYDRA's image), rape was very likely involved, but HYDRA using him as a common rent boy? That's grasping at straws.

Steve was Bucky's Achilles Heel, because he was someone he knew before he became a soldier for HYDRA's army. And that was the bond he kept having with Steve. Both were from a different era and Bucky never was able to move on and find friends in modern times like Steve until now (Falcon).

by Anonymousreply 130April 7, 2021 2:36 AM

The first two were entertaining enough but this third episode started to lose me.

This show is trying to do so much, rather than focusing on just executing one story well.

by Anonymousreply 131April 7, 2021 3:13 AM

Bucky being sexually abused by a platoon of Hydra soldiers is making me hot.

by Anonymousreply 132April 7, 2021 5:41 AM

Gosh, seems like we woke up in this alternative universe where there is some requirement for half the movies, ads, tv shows, u name it....have to be ethnic.

by Anonymousreply 133April 7, 2021 5:58 AM

Longing. Rusted. Seventeen. Daybreak. Furnace. Nine. Benign. Homecoming. One. Freight car. Pre-lube. Pillowbiter.

Ready, Soldier?

by Anonymousreply 134April 7, 2021 9:56 AM

Yeah, episode 3 was a little... dull. Repetitive. I hope the final three episodes make it worth it.

by Anonymousreply 135April 7, 2021 2:57 PM

I’ve decided to take Sebastian Stan as a lover.

by Anonymousreply 136April 7, 2021 4:02 PM

Zemo was the best part of episode 3. I also liked Madripoor and hope we see more of it in the MCU.

by Anonymousreply 137April 7, 2021 4:11 PM

[quote]I guess that either Marvel changed their minds or ended up outing BTH.

If Brian Tyree Henry doesn't come out Marvel can save face because the actor who plays Henry's partner in the film is openly gay - Haaz Sleiman (NURSE JACKIE, BREAKING FAST) who, years ago, denounced homophobia and proclaimed "total bottom" status.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 138April 7, 2021 10:45 PM

omg the white one is fukin hot as fuk times one thousand.

wanna eat him out sooooo bad.

by Anonymousreply 139April 8, 2021 8:51 AM

[quote]proclaimed "total bottom" status

*swipes right*

by Anonymousreply 140April 8, 2021 12:42 PM

Things got much darker in episode 4. Karli and John Walker were the focus in this episode. Good and evil has been dispensed with, all the characters are shades of grey and the abuse of power is the main theme.

Zemo continues to steal the show. Bucky has a couple of interactions with those Wakandan all women special ops team, one surprising emotional. Sam is sexy as shit.

I was tense throughout this entire episode. The three previous episodes didn’t sell me on TF&WS, but episode 4 definitely did.

by Anonymousreply 141April 9, 2021 5:04 PM

Just watched and that last image was...phew.

If the point of this series is to show why Sam should be Captain America, they're doing a great job.

How does Marvel always do such a great job with casting? Not only were Mackie, Stan and Russell fantastic this week...so was Ayo! The woman who I think had ONE LINE in her first MCU appearance.

by Anonymousreply 142April 9, 2021 9:13 PM

The actress who plays Ayo is fantastic, she has amazing screen presence.

I think this has been my favorite episode so far, I'd say it in order it would be this ep, ep 2, ep 1 and then ep 3. This episode moved the plot forward, gave us an insight into where each character is and had an amazing and brutal ending.

by Anonymousreply 143April 9, 2021 9:20 PM

[quote] I will be so grossed out if they pair him romantically with Sharon.

Me too, if only because her name is "Sharon"!

by Anonymousreply 144April 9, 2021 9:22 PM

Sebastian Stan did a fantastic acting job in the opening, when it’s proven that his Hydra deprogramming worked. The fear building in his face and voice....then disbelieving relief and joy.

by Anonymousreply 145April 9, 2021 9:34 PM

Stan is so dam hot, get rid of the other guy....

by Anonymousreply 146April 9, 2021 10:14 PM

It's a peeve of mine in action movies when people get thrown into a wall hard enough to make a dent, and are fine a minute later.

So...yay?

by Anonymousreply 147April 9, 2021 10:56 PM

There's an interview with the casting director for the MCU who said that even for the smallest parts, they always need to consider if the actor is capable of handling a larger role, as they've had many instances like Ayo, where the character is suddenly brought back for more scenes and they have to be able to handle themselves with the MCU stars.

by Anonymousreply 148April 10, 2021 12:24 AM

Bucky had me crying at the beginning. Sebastian Stan is really getting to show off his chops in this show. I've always thought he was a decent, capable actor who happened to be a great Bucky, but now I'm thinking he may be more talented than I realized.

The next episode will be 61 mins. It's the one that supposedly has a big cameo and according to the writer is the most emotional.

I hope Marvel considers making a second season. Seems like there should be plenty of stories to mine in a post-blip world.

by Anonymousreply 149April 10, 2021 12:49 AM

Did you ever watch “I, Tonya” r149?

Sebastian Stan was amazing as Tonya’s scuzz bag husband. There was serious Oscar nomination buzz around him in this role.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 150April 10, 2021 1:02 AM

He really was great in "I, Tonya!".

by Anonymousreply 151April 10, 2021 1:07 AM

Yes, R150, I did see it. My mistake for overlooking that one; he was fantastic. I thought he gave a stronger performance than Janney (no disrespect intended--just didn't think it was her most stellar work).

by Anonymousreply 152April 10, 2021 1:09 AM

Of course all the gays saw I, Tonya. (Me too!) Stan was also in The Covenant, which might be of interest for...reasons.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 153April 10, 2021 1:14 AM

[quote]If the point of this series is to show why Sam should be Captain America, they're doing a great job.

Yes. His scene with Karli was fantastic.

It's a nice callback to his comics persona, where he's a social worker.

by Anonymousreply 154April 10, 2021 2:24 AM

I have to admit that Sam has grown on me over the course of the show.

They are doing an excellent job of positioning him as the next Captain America.

by Anonymousreply 155April 10, 2021 2:33 AM

[quote] Congratulations to Marvel for finally realizing Sebastian Stan’s one true talent is being gay and crying

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 156April 10, 2021 5:24 AM

I read new speculation on the mystery character that's supposedly showing up in episode 5, who is said will cause many viewers to cry. Now its being rumored to be.... Steve Rogers.

by Anonymousreply 157April 10, 2021 5:24 PM

Yes, let's build up speculation and expectations for the final episodes. That won't end in tears.

by Anonymousreply 158April 10, 2021 8:59 PM

Steve is Mephisto CONFIRMED!

by Anonymousreply 159April 10, 2021 9:00 PM

Yes, the tears when it isn't Steve will be delicious.

by Anonymousreply 160April 10, 2021 9:05 PM

R157 Allegedly, it's someone that hasn't shown up in the MCU yet and is a very grounded character played by a well-known actor.

by Anonymousreply 161April 11, 2021 12:38 AM

Cher IS Reed Richards!

by Anonymousreply 162April 11, 2021 9:19 AM

SPOILER

Woah, the dark irony is that - once upon a time - the henchman, who gets killed by New Captain America, looked up to Captain America as a hero.

by Anonymousreply 163April 11, 2021 11:32 AM

It's not Steve, or any other character that we've seen before.

The sentimental part of me wants it to be someone that would be important for Sam or Bucky on a personal level vs. some splashy cameo of a big character. Bucky's sister, for example.

by Anonymousreply 164April 11, 2021 4:07 PM

Steve and Peggy's son?

by Anonymousreply 165April 11, 2021 4:11 PM

Am I the only one who remembers some PR way back when this show was first being developed that one of its characters would be revealed as LGBTQ? The tiger selfie offhand comment is the only hint of that I've actually seen so far, unless Sharon becoming a bitter lush who beats the crap out of crowds of men and mocks male friendships means she now identifies as a bull dyke.

by Anonymousreply 166April 11, 2021 4:30 PM

Zeno was made a bitch in prison...and he LIKED it

by Anonymousreply 167April 11, 2021 4:55 PM

IMO it wasn't a good idea to overhype the mystery appearances in the final episodes of WandaVision. They hype and expectations got so high that the reveal underwhelmed. I think it's going to be the same here.

by Anonymousreply 168April 11, 2021 5:08 PM

[quote]Sharon becoming a bitter lush

There is no way that Sharon is a bitter lush.

She's Peggy Carter's niece. There is NO way she wasn't pardoned along with everyone else. I'm betting they decided to use her "fugitive" status to plant her in Madripoor and that's going to be part of the big twist. She's clearly not working alone whatever she's doing.

by Anonymousreply 169April 11, 2021 11:27 PM

I only watch the show to fap over Sebastian Stan. I want him to take his vibranium arm and fist my butthole.

by Anonymousreply 170April 12, 2021 9:25 AM

[quote]Does it vibrate?

Only if you know the code words.

by Anonymousreply 171April 12, 2021 10:15 AM

“Longing, rusted, seventeen, daybreak, furnace, nine, benign, homecoming, one, freight car”, are the words that activate the Winter Soldier to fight. If you want sexual favors the words are, “train, jackhammer, lay pipe, skin flute, yank, pull, tug, thrust, cornhole”.

by Anonymousreply 172April 12, 2021 10:23 AM

OK, I guess I'm the only one who found ep4 to be oddly paced and inert. It just seemed like they found some abandoned eastern European building with a courtyard and decided to shoot the whole episode there, it was a lot of: move to a particular part of the building, talk for 15-20 minutes then fight, rinse and repeat. Some of the fights seemed pointless and I don't find the main Flag Smasher girl to be that engaging.

by Anonymousreply 173April 12, 2021 7:01 PM

Bucky's booty

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 174April 12, 2021 7:02 PM

.....

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 175April 12, 2021 7:03 PM

R174 I want to bite it.

by Anonymousreply 176April 12, 2021 7:51 PM

I found it a big improvement over the Maripoor ep which seemed like suddenly we were in a completely different show r173.

by Anonymousreply 177April 12, 2021 7:59 PM

Re: R174 Marvel needs to get Bucky a new suit that highlights those cakes.

It's about time John went loco. I'm glad they stopped dragging it out. I wonder if the actor is contracted out to play US Agent after this or he'll be done after FAWS. Anyone know?

by Anonymousreply 178April 12, 2021 8:50 PM

That is (Captain) America's ass.

by Anonymousreply 179April 12, 2021 9:05 PM

Why didn’t he take the picture from the front instead? I want to see that beautiful cock.

by Anonymousreply 180April 12, 2021 9:10 PM

Be sure to watch "The Covenant" ... you can see him walking around in a tiny speedo at the pool, or in the locker room half-dressed.

by Anonymousreply 181April 12, 2021 11:23 PM

I'm watching all the Marvel movies so I can finally watch WandaVision and Falcon and Winter Soldier, and the first 5 minutes of Captain America: The Winter Soldier reminded me of this thread. Sam/Falcon is literally introduced being cruised by Steve Rogers in a park.

by Anonymousreply 182April 13, 2021 12:06 AM

When I see Bucky and Steve fighting its almost like they are hate fucking.

by Anonymousreply 183April 13, 2021 7:55 AM

Disney released a digital poster of Ayo. Florence Kasumba looks badass and you can see all the cool details on the Dora Milaje outfit. Must be fun to be an MCU costume designer.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 184April 13, 2021 10:00 AM

When you create a badass character like Ayo, no one cares that she's a woman.

All the people who blame "misogyny" for hating poorly conceived and poorly executed female characters need to figure that out.

by Anonymousreply 185April 13, 2021 2:17 PM

Ok Boomer.

by Anonymousreply 186April 13, 2021 2:50 PM

(rolling eyes at R85)

by Anonymousreply 187April 13, 2021 2:53 PM

Mid-season sneak peak. Can't wait to see Sam and Bucky fight Captain Hysterica for the shield.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 188April 13, 2021 3:28 PM

Hope they beat some humility into him, R188

by Anonymousreply 189April 13, 2021 3:39 PM

[Quote]and I don't find the main Flag Smasher girl to be that engaging.

Because it's not r173.

This show is just okay, it's not some great success story. I've accepted it for what is.

by Anonymousreply 190April 13, 2021 3:46 PM

A digression for you Stan stans...last night I watched We Have Always Lived in the Castle. Stan's role was sadly small but he was good in it. And if you want to call him Daddy, he's got some swagger in this. Good movie overall. Can't say how faithful it was to the book.

by Anonymousreply 191April 14, 2021 12:04 PM

Apparently, he was supposed to have a much bigger role as the Mad Hatter on Once Upon a Time, but landed the Bucky role.

by Anonymousreply 192April 14, 2021 1:43 PM

I'm enjoying the show, it's not blowing me away but it's well-made and it is good to see these characters have a bit more screentime as they have both been short-changed in the films (though understandably as they are not the 'stars').

I think the ending of the last episode was great. One of the most shocking moments in the whole MCU to date I think.

by Anonymousreply 193April 14, 2021 2:05 PM

From the newest tease, it looks like they are going ahead with that chemical attack that was rumored to have been cut because of covid.

by Anonymousreply 194April 15, 2021 9:58 PM

I watch the show for Stan, to me he is the hottie . yummm

by Anonymousreply 195April 16, 2021 1:36 AM

That wasn't the great episode that the show runner had been hyping it to be. I get that there needs to be a breather after an action heavy episode but it just felt like it meandered once Sam left Isaiahs. The pacing in the series has been all over the place so far, I think Marvel are having a similar problem to a lot of shows on Netflix, they don't know how to pace their shows properly with the freedom that streaming gives them.

by Anonymousreply 196April 16, 2021 8:05 AM

[quote]I think Marvel are having a similar problem to a lot of shows on Netflix, they don't know how to pace their shows properly with the freedom that streaming gives them.

I agree with this.

The shows run almost as if it's a standard two hour movie that's been S--T--E--T--C--H--E--D to fill 6-8 hours of run time with a lot more filler stuff in, but the same number of set pieces. - more scenes per sequence, more sequences per act.

Also, I don't think it helps that many of these shows have different directors for each episode, giving it a slightly disjointed feeling across episodes.

by Anonymousreply 197April 16, 2021 12:59 PM

Episode 5 turns in some heavy well acted drama. I thought this episode was excellent: really exploring the themes of racism and abuse of power. Beautiful images of Bucky on the dock.

Is it a non stop action fest? No. But the Marvel universe, in contrast to the DC universe, has succeeded by exploring complex real life themes and emotions.

Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan get a chance to shine for their acting in this format, they way they didn’t in a 2 hour movie.

The star cameo was hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 198April 16, 2021 3:06 PM

Mackie allegedly made homophobic remarks about the movie that he was in early in his career, [italic]Looking for Langston[/italic]. Can’t find it but I definitely remember reading that.

by Anonymousreply 199April 16, 2021 3:15 PM

Link r199?

by Anonymousreply 200April 16, 2021 3:15 PM

Anthony Mackie sweating and throwing that shield around was definitely working for me in this episode. I really appreciate how much work the Marvel actors put in, to look so fucking hot in these films (and tv shows).

Stan looked sad and hot, which works for the Bucky character. My only complaint for him this episode is why no shirtless scene?

Russell is playing Walker appropriately crazed and self-pitying. His caveman face is great for that role and every time they zoom in, I'm thankful he wasn't chosen as Steve Rogers because Chris Evans is so much better looking. CGI can do wonders but it couldn't give Russell an actual profile.

I liked this episode. It tied up a lot of plot points and gets things set up for the last one. I'm looking forward to next week and seeing Sam's official Captain America suit!

by Anonymousreply 201April 16, 2021 5:00 PM

mackie being phobic does not shock me in the least....

by Anonymousreply 202April 16, 2021 8:04 PM

If a white man had done that his career would now be in freefall....

by Anonymousreply 203April 16, 2021 8:06 PM

Would a yellow skinned man be same r203?

by Anonymousreply 204April 16, 2021 8:34 PM

Julia L-D!

by Anonymousreply 205April 16, 2021 8:37 PM

Mackie has also come under fire for saying sexist stuff in interviews.

by Anonymousreply 206April 16, 2021 10:53 PM

Link r206?

by Anonymousreply 207April 16, 2021 10:57 PM

Wow they actually wrote Walker running away from the Flagsmasher fight like a sitcom teen flouncing out of a kitchen. Even Walker deserved a little more dignity than that.

One episode left? "Weirdly paced" doesn't begin to cover it. They could have at least let us see Sam's new costume. Do you think it's a wingsuit or a Captain America suit? Hope they didn't send a Panther suit by mistake. Captain Black Falcon Panther is a mouthful.

by Anonymousreply 208April 17, 2021 10:32 AM

Please don't tell me the big reveal was the Contessa character.

by Anonymousreply 209April 17, 2021 10:55 AM

Oh and sending Zemo to The Raft? Nothing could go wrong with that plan. Thunderbolts when?

Still processing all the feels from this episode. The parallels between Isaiah's and Steve's stories...ugh.

by Anonymousreply 210April 17, 2021 10:57 AM

R209 It was, I think it would've hit harder had Black Widow come out when originally planned as the character has a subplot in that movie and was her original introduction to the MCU.

by Anonymousreply 211April 17, 2021 12:02 PM

R208, it's the Captain America suit. And the guy he left his wins with will become the New Falcon.

And "Weirdly Paced" is due to Covid. I just read it was originally 10 episodes long, but due to Covid, they cut entire characters and sub-plots out.

by Anonymousreply 212April 17, 2021 2:20 PM

I'm hoping for a double costume reveal. First Sam makes his Big Damn Hero entrance as the new Captain America. Later he gets thrown off a building and his costume sprouts nanotech wings.

by Anonymousreply 213April 17, 2021 7:03 PM

I hate the nanotech bullshit they've introduced into the MCU, it takes the weight out of the characters suits. The Iron Man suiting up scene in Infinity War paled in comparison to the suiting up scenes from the first Iron Man to the Avengers.

by Anonymousreply 214April 17, 2021 9:28 PM

That's not true r212. This was planned to be 6 episodes from the very beginning. Probably that is as many episodes they could afford given the high budget demands of this series.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 215April 17, 2021 9:34 PM

This may change at some point, but Feige has gone on record stating that they plan for their Disney+ shows to be six hours long. So, the number of episodes per series will vary depending on how long each episode is.

by Anonymousreply 216April 17, 2021 9:39 PM

Sorry, show. I don't care about Sam and you can't make me. Adding a sister with money troubles doesn't make the character more interesting. If there is a Season 2, they should cut him out and focus on Bucky and Zemo.

by Anonymousreply 217April 17, 2021 10:16 PM

R217 I sort of agree, Steve wasn't the most interesting character either but worked as Captain America and they're doing the same with Sam. Bucky, Zemo and even the newer version of Sharon are much more interesting than Sam and I'd much prefer a second season or spin-off based around those characters. Sam would work better as just turning up in Avengers movies when he is surrounded by much bigger characters than himself, so he can benefit from being the grounded character.

by Anonymousreply 218April 17, 2021 10:42 PM

Steve was just good. The most interesting about him was the (brief) struggle to adjust to modern life.

Bucky is interesting, because he is an anti-hero on a quest for redemption. That makes him compelling.

by Anonymousreply 219April 17, 2021 10:45 PM

Feel bad for Zemo. He really wanted the honor of being murdered by Bucky.

by Anonymousreply 220April 18, 2021 4:07 AM

John Walker went from zero to batshit really quickly. Building his own shield so he can keep pretending he's Captain America? That's some Jennifer Jason Leigh, Single White Female-level crazy.

by Anonymousreply 221April 18, 2021 4:14 AM

The super-soldier serum did that to him.

by Anonymousreply 222April 18, 2021 4:46 AM

[quote] Also, I don't think it helps that many of these shows have different directors for each episode, giving it a slightly disjointed feeling across episodes.

Both this show and WandaVision had one director for all the episodes. (Kari Skogland for Falcon and Matt Shakman for Wanda.)

by Anonymousreply 223April 18, 2021 5:09 AM

R222 it only enhanced what was already there within John Walker.

by Anonymousreply 224April 18, 2021 5:38 AM

Walker was already an unstable wannabe, R222.

"DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?"

Bitch, you're no Captain America.

by Anonymousreply 225April 18, 2021 6:10 AM

r115 deadpool x bucky?

by Anonymousreply 226April 18, 2021 6:38 AM

John Walker was burdened with doubt he could be a good leader, because all of his life he was a simple soldier following orders. How can you be a leader, an authority figure, when you never learned the skill? In this fantasy world Steve was the right kind of self-righteous and was able to be the righteous superhero role model who did good without much struggle. John Walker was not so lucky. His insecurity issues did him in.

by Anonymousreply 227April 18, 2021 6:49 AM

As long as they are nailing the character stuff I don't care much about questionable plot elements....but it is hard to believe Walker would even get chosen for the role (no psych eval?) let alone be left to wander around on his own with no supervision or backup. But his story resonates with the classic Cap theme of idealism vs authoritarianism. It's not as horrific as Isaiah Bradley's story, but Walker is another bright, brave, and promising young man who was chewed up and spit out by a system that didn't actually care about him as a person.

They're doing it a lot better than Jessica Jones did with that unstable cop that everyone hated.

by Anonymousreply 228April 18, 2021 8:42 AM

Bring back U.S.Agent. Love that crazy fucked.

by Anonymousreply 229April 18, 2021 8:44 AM

Bucky’s costume should be his birthday suit.

by Anonymousreply 230April 18, 2021 11:56 AM

[quote]Walker is another bright, brave, and promising young man who was chewed up and spit out by a system that didn't actually care about him as a person.

He was very clearly a dick even before he got roid-ragey.

[quote][R208], it's the Captain America suit. And the guy he left his wins with will become the New Falcon.

When Sam was Cap in the comics, he still had the wings.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 231April 18, 2021 3:33 PM

Agree, R231.

Walker = a perfect solider/shitty Captain America Steve & = good men/great Captain Americas

If Walker wasn't a p.o.s. to begin with, the serum couldn't have made him a name-dropping, impatient, rage machine. It just emphasized what he was already.

by Anonymousreply 232April 18, 2021 3:53 PM

Walker was never bad or evil. He was just overwhelmed from being a good obedient foot soldier to someone who is in charge. In real life this promotion would've never made sense to begin with. On the show (and in the comics?) he's more of a glorified plot device to defend the decision of making an African American Captain America, because the government sucked at picking the new Captain America and Steve had the better instinct.

by Anonymousreply 233April 18, 2021 4:06 PM

Walker's the star of a new US Agent miniseries in the comics, from writer Christopher Priest (who did a great job with Black Panther many years ago). Priest:

"John Walker is no Steve Rogers. John Walker is not a superhero, no matter how much he wants to be a superhero. And that's the point of John Walker. So you have a guy who has all the right powers, he has all the right motivations, he's a true patriot, and yet he falls short of that mark."

by Anonymousreply 234April 18, 2021 4:20 PM

Nobody ever forgave Tony when he went all homicidal on Bucky and Steve.

Right?

by Anonymousreply 235April 18, 2021 4:20 PM

I don’t quite understand why someone with no powers was given the shield and the title of Captain America. What did they think John Walker would be capable of? Steve wasn’t just a symbolic figure, he was a super-soldier with greatly enhanced strength and abilities.

by Anonymousreply 236April 18, 2021 6:21 PM

[quote] I sort of agree, Steve wasn't the most interesting character either but worked as Captain America and they're doing the same with Sam.

Steve was interesting because he was so "good" to the point where, when the government worked against him, it didn't change him at all. He was just "good."

He was always the contrast to the rest of the Avengers team. He wasn't a former assassin, he didn't turn into a destructive green monster, he wasn't a sexist jock that had to be steered right or former partners with Ultron. Even the extended group like, Antman & Winter Soldier, had criminal pasts (That wasn't necessarily the case when it came to Falcon, WarMachine, Spider-Man and I guess Hawkeye but who knows what Hawkeye did for SHIELD.)

I didn't give a damn about Falcon in the comics. I felt the same way about him in the MCU until this series. Now I like him because he doesn't seem to have a lot of baggage like everyone else. Granted, he had issues taking the Captain America banner but I think the series also made it clear why that's a valid concern for him.

I think we need these kinds of characters occasionally because there are very few other characters like them around.

[quote]Nobody ever forgave Tony when he went all homicidal on Bucky and Steve. Right?

Sort of?

They forgave each other for not forgiving each other and neither is sorry. They both know what part they played in Civil War happening and they both empathized with each other for what they did.

Also, in Civil War, after Tony and Steve's fight, he tells Steve that he shouldn't keep the shield because his father made it. Steve drops the shield and leaves with Bucky.

Movies later, Tony says, "I'm sorry" without saying it when he gives Tony back the shield, saying his father made it for him.

by Anonymousreply 237April 18, 2021 7:17 PM

NERD ^

by Anonymousreply 238April 18, 2021 7:52 PM

Black Widow and Hawkeye are normal humans who were founding members of the Avengers r236. You don't need powers to be a superhero in this world.

by Anonymousreply 239April 18, 2021 8:03 PM

I hated everything about the way shoehorning Tony Stark into the Civil War film completely derailed the more interesting plot--Cap's further disillusionment with the government after Winter Soldier and in the face of the Sokovia Accords.

Yeah, Bucky killed Tony's parents. I get why he would be pissed at Steve for keeping that from him and why he would react in anger. But the idea that he would cross continents to try to murder Bucky was just... stupid. He was behaving like a child while Steve was trying to protect his best friend from being wrongfully imprisoned or killed by the government and/or T'Challa. Their motives weren't on equal footing, which makes the "civil war" and its fallout seem so ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 240April 18, 2021 8:16 PM

[Quote]But the idea that he would cross continents to try to murder Bucky was just... stupid.

Yes, so stupid that someone would want revenge on the person who murdered their parents.

Have you met people before? They are pretty emotional creatures who tend not to like their loved ones getting tragically murdered.

by Anonymousreply 241April 18, 2021 8:23 PM

Umhmm, R241. Just imagine how many parents were killed with Stark bombs and by Ultron, who Tony created. Millions, maybe?

by Anonymousreply 242April 18, 2021 8:34 PM

Duh. People are not rational robots, they react based on their emotions. Again, have you met people? Stark's he killed my mom line sums it up well, just pure honest emotion.

by Anonymousreply 243April 18, 2021 8:52 PM

My mother's name was Martha, too

by Anonymousreply 244April 18, 2021 8:59 PM

Too bad this show isn't on HBO. I REALLY wanted Bucky and Sam to hate-fuck.

R217, I don't think there will be a season 2. Don't you know that 83.49% of the viewers tuned out after the cops tried to arrest Sam in episode 2?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 245April 18, 2021 9:02 PM

Wanda and Pietro parents were killed by Stark bombs, so they were entirely justified going after Stark, R243?

by Anonymousreply 246April 18, 2021 9:09 PM

Yes, their reactions made sense r246.

That's what any halfway good writing is supposed to do, give people understandable motivations.

by Anonymousreply 247April 18, 2021 9:14 PM

Tony was lucky it was only the Maximoff twins and Zemo who decided they wanted payback for their Stark-murdered families I guess.

by Anonymousreply 248April 18, 2021 9:17 PM

I hope they title an episode “This is the story about a boy named Bucky”

by Anonymousreply 249April 18, 2021 9:40 PM

Tony didn't travel across the globe to kill Bucky. He didn't even know Bucky killed his parents until AFTER he met up with Steve and Bucky.

by Anonymousreply 250April 18, 2021 9:40 PM

Loved the insight, (r237).

by Anonymousreply 251April 18, 2021 9:52 PM

[quote]Adding a sister with money troubles doesn't make the character more interesting.

I get what they were trying to do - as heavy handed as the message was.

The two subplots with the older black guy who was treated like a science experiment and Sam's inability to get a simple bank loan, even after just saving half the galaxy, informs the bigger story point that Sam didn't feel he could truly accept being Captain America even after Steve anointed him by giving him the shield. His story is a parallel story to the story of the people who were displaced after everyone came back. They were welcome by countries and governments when they were desperately needed after half the people vanished, but the moment they weren't needed, they were treated like garbage and cast aside - similar to the subplots of the black super soldier and Sam's experience as a black man in America. Karli's comments about the shield resonate throughout Sam's story arc.

by Anonymousreply 252April 18, 2021 9:53 PM

It's funny how they all talk about Steve.

He's old, not dead. Or is he ?

by Anonymousreply 253April 19, 2021 12:36 AM

I was thinking that too r253. Steve isn't dead, he is just super old. In reality they would still be visiting him to talk.

by Anonymousreply 254April 19, 2021 12:45 AM

I'm curious as to how they're going to bring Steve back when they inevitable want Captain America to interact with all the new properties the MCU can now use. His serum was supposed to either totally halt or seriously slow his aging (same with Bucky Natasha, and Fury), but they revealed him as really old messing that up.

by Anonymousreply 255April 19, 2021 1:10 AM

R255 When did Natasha and Nicholas get super serum?

by Anonymousreply 256April 19, 2021 1:13 AM

With a Multiverse, the possibilities are limitless.

I hope when Steve comes back he's got that beard he had in pt1 of Infinity War. Hot af.

by Anonymousreply 257April 19, 2021 1:14 AM

You are confusing comic book stuff with the MCU r255, Natasha and Fury just age normally.

And Bucky didn't age that much because he was kept in a cryogenic chamber except when he was brought out to kill someone.

Though Steve would have been 112 at the end of Endgame and didn't look that terrible, you can still fanwank some anti-aging properties of the serum.

by Anonymousreply 258April 19, 2021 1:20 AM

R255 It's possible the MCU changed them, but in the comics they all had some version of one. Fury has the Infiniti Serum and I forget what Natasha got. I was just thinking that the MCU seemed to be sticking relatively close to the comic powers.

by Anonymousreply 259April 19, 2021 2:19 AM

Oh fuck, finally did some research and realized new Cap is John walker who was my original U.S. Agent in the comics. What a fucking liberty. I really like U.S. Agent. He could do, thank and say more than Steve ever could. Jesus, he was conflicted and that made his character so multi-dimensional.

This TV version is lacking in depth, and has just painted him as mental.

by Anonymousreply 260April 19, 2021 2:20 AM

R259, it's similar in the MCU. The formulas that Bucky, Steve, Red Skull, John Walker, Bruce Banner, etc. received were all different versions of the original formula with various tweaks both apparent and less so.

Red Skull's made him crazy. Abomination's made him deformed and granted him the ability to heal faster than someone like Cap. Bruce Banner's added some different kind of radiation to it and turned him into the Hulk. The one Howard Stark made, caused people to go crazy and have anger issues. We know what happened to the other test subjects that were there with Isaiah Bradley.

The one in this series is apparently best one made from the original formula.

Captain America, Winter Soldier, John Walker and Isaiah Bradley all got different versions of the same original formula and it's likely they all have slightly different abilities.

But we do know one thing Captain America's version of the serum did ....

[quote]you can still fanwank some anti-aging properties of the serum.

From the original Captain America and the First Avenger movie

[quote]Dr. Erskine said that the serum wouldn't just effect my muscles, it would effect my cells. Create a protective system of regeneration and healing. Which means, um, I can't get drunk. Did you know that?

So 112, not quite looking 112 but still looking old and still getting around by himself was a compromise. (I still think he should have looked old but even younger but I guess they wanted to go for shock.)

by Anonymousreply 261April 19, 2021 3:11 AM

Steve is gone because he went back to his timeline (where he was with Peggy, the one he left to pass on a shield to Sam at the end of Endgame) that's the only way the time travel stuff works he is not living among them he only came back to give the shield.

by Anonymousreply 262April 19, 2021 8:18 AM

John Walker was a massive jerk in the comics, certainly at first. He mellowed somewhat once he accepted he wasn't Captain America and settled down as USAgent, after which he became a somewhat accepted member of the superhero community.

by Anonymousreply 263April 19, 2021 8:57 AM

r263 Sigh. All you get, with that kind of bollocks post, is a sad, elongated, sigh.

by Anonymousreply 264April 19, 2021 9:20 AM

[quote]I'm curious as to how they're going to bring Steve back when they inevitable want Captain America to interact with all the new properties the MCU can now use.

Steve also got old in the comics and he was restored to his youthful virility by a shard of the Cosmic Cube that had gained sentience and taken on the form of a little girl.

Seriously.

by Anonymousreply 265April 19, 2021 12:14 PM

Whatever get Evans back into those tight pants, R265.

by Anonymousreply 266April 19, 2021 2:18 PM

I don't think Disney is really that interested to spend money on luring Evans back for even the briefest of cameos.

by Anonymousreply 267April 19, 2021 2:21 PM

[quote]Steve also got old in the comics and he was restored to his youthful virility by a shard of the Cosmic Cube that had gained sentience and taken on the form of a little girl.

Don't forget, she also made him a Nazi.

At the worst possible time for that, given real wold events. Secret Empire's timing was worse than Kang Dynasty, where Washington was leveled right after 9/11.

by Anonymousreply 268April 19, 2021 2:23 PM

There are rumors that Evans may return in an evil multiverse version of Captain America - apparently, there's some big comic book crossover which many believe will be the basis for the next few Avengers movies.

by Anonymousreply 269April 19, 2021 3:47 PM

NY Post had an article calling out Disney for destroying a US hero as if Walker was a real person

by Anonymousreply 270April 19, 2021 3:54 PM

Also, he was a RWNJ in the comics, so I don't know why they're surprised.

by Anonymousreply 271April 19, 2021 4:01 PM

r270 A Fox media outlet being critical of a Disney program? Now I've heard everything

by Anonymousreply 272April 19, 2021 4:23 PM

Steve isn't gone but he is definitely no longer Captain America. He's likely available to talk but his existence is secret enough that no one should visit him without direct purpose. He's aged because the serum only slows, as in protects against, aging (as well as other conditions). In physical age, he's over 110. He was born around 1910s, frozen in his twenties in the 1940s. Then, if we're not counting frozen age, he woke up to some years in modern times, bringing him to his late twenties to early thirties, but then Endgame brought the time skip to have him at later thirties. Of course, even hitting middle age, he's in (normal) health like a twentysomething. He uses the Stone to travel to the 1940s, and lives through time linearly from there, but that's another 70+ years. So he's roughly around 110, likely above.

He's on his last days, unlikely(?) to live another decade without intervention. You can imagine him trying to survive until Endgame-time like many elderly try to reach certain milestones. The MCU can do whatever to rejuvenate him but without a timeline retcon, MCU Steve Rogers has lived a good bit over a century, and existed - albeit in multiple timelines - well over 150 years.

Adding to the idea of last days, Peggy Carter has likely already passed just like the first timeline, so Steve is waiting out the final several years.

by Anonymousreply 273April 19, 2021 4:26 PM

Also lets not discount the possibility that Steve died offscreen so far, and the MCU is saving such a scene of a real-or-fake death for movie material, that FaWS scriptwriting can just slot nicely into.

by Anonymousreply 274April 19, 2021 4:31 PM

[quote]He's on his last days

Sad Final Days: Steve Rogers.

by Anonymousreply 275April 19, 2021 4:34 PM

[quote]Steve is gone because he went back to his timeline (where he was with Peggy, the one he left to pass on a shield to Sam at the end of Endgame) that's the only way the time travel stuff works he is not living among them he only came back to give the shield.

Writers Christopher McFeely and Stephen Markus explained that there were two Steves. The old man Steve was always around, even when the younger one was. He just stayed hidden until the moment his younger Steve self went into the past to return the stones. So from 48 forward there were two Steve Rogers but one was frozen in ice for years.

The Ancient One explained, that taking the infinity stones out of this timeline would create a new one but they believe that wouldn't have applied here since technically he went back to return the stones in the current timeline to where they last were.

The Russo brothers directors on the other hand say that the young Steve created a new timeline when he traveled backwards and thus is out there in the multiverse. The question is then where did old Steve come from?

The writer's explanation is what was intended but the director's explanation leaves them with more ways to bring him back.

by Anonymousreply 276April 19, 2021 6:04 PM

R245, that video is bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 277April 19, 2021 6:07 PM

R243, I didn't say Stark's emotions weren't understandable, I'm saying it was stupid to devote the entire 3rd act of a Captain America movie to it.

by Anonymousreply 278April 19, 2021 6:09 PM

R276 you just gave me a thought! What if the Steve that gave Falcon the shield wasn't actually Steve, but an imposter? We know Marvel plans on working Secret Invasion into upcoming projects, so that Steve could have easily been a Skrull (possibly one of the good faction working with Fury) impersonating the real one to give Sam the shield. That would allow Marvel to bring back Steve (with a new actor) later on because he never died.

by Anonymousreply 279April 19, 2021 11:17 PM

R279, That's brilliant. I really like that idea!

by Anonymousreply 280April 20, 2021 1:08 AM

I want old Steve to guest in the MCU Deadpool movie, griping about how heroes did things back in his day while beating up thugs with his cane.

by Anonymousreply 281April 20, 2021 5:26 AM

Steve going back in time created a new timeline, where he lived out his life with Peggy. He couldn’t secretly have been around getting older in the regular timeline all this time, because Peggy had lived her life without him. To give Sam the shield he somehow travelled from that alternate timeline to the original timeline he disappeared from.

by Anonymousreply 282April 20, 2021 6:39 AM

I thought Steve died and Sam did the eulogy at an official wake for Steve in the first episode? Would it make sense for Sam to hand over the shield while Steve can still witness him doing it either in person or watching TV?

by Anonymousreply 283April 20, 2021 9:51 AM

In episode 5, during the conversation while they took turns throwing the shield, Sam just said (to Bucky) "Steve's gone." And Bucky had tears in his eyes in response. I figured that was their way of saying, for sure, that Old Steve had died.

by Anonymousreply 284April 20, 2021 3:04 PM

There are a few who think that Nick Fury has old man Steve hiding out on the SWORD station.

by Anonymousreply 285April 20, 2021 4:25 PM

And how many of the theories about WandaVIsion turned out to be true?

by Anonymousreply 286April 20, 2021 5:07 PM

I think they've left what's happened to Steve pretty vague so that if Chris wants to return the door is open, when Sam says "Steve has gone" it can either mean old man Steve is dead or the younger version of Steve has gone into another timeline.

by Anonymousreply 287April 20, 2021 6:04 PM

[quote] And Bucky had tears in his eyes in response. I figured that was their way of saying, for sure, that Old Steve had died.

I just thought they were saying he's off hiding somewhere and never ever coming back.

They said earlier that the public thought he was dead but the official response is that he's retired (according to the Smithsonian.)

The joke was that he was on a moonbase somewhere. I think that might actually be close to the truth and he's hanging out in space with SWORD and Nick Fury.

Either way they just can't call him up and talk to them. If Old Man Steve had been hiding for years, as the writers intended, I'm sure he went right back to it.

by Anonymousreply 288April 20, 2021 10:05 PM

I like your idea R288.

by Anonymousreply 289April 21, 2021 12:24 AM

......

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 290April 21, 2021 12:53 AM

I wish, R290. I wish.

by Anonymousreply 291April 21, 2021 6:17 AM

I'm re-watching Winter Soldier and I'm remind that Peggy Carter had a husband and two kids after she "lost" Steve. Judging by the way she hesitates before saying "my husband," I'm thinking it was foreshadowing that Steve really did marry her in the main timeline, as opposed to an alternate one.

by Anonymousreply 292April 21, 2021 11:14 PM

[quote]I'm re-watching Winter Soldier and I'm remind that Peggy Carter had a husband and two kids after she "lost" Steve. Judging by the way she hesitates before saying "my husband," I'm thinking it was foreshadowing that Steve really did marry her in the main timeline, as opposed to an alternate one.

Great eye!

They very intentionally didn't mention who she married. All they said was that they had two kids together.

And yes, screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely, who worked on both Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Avengers: Endgame, said that it was ALWAYS their intention that it would turn out that Steve was her husband after all.

So the Cap reveal, as an old man, was planned almost 5 years earlier.

(Contrary to what the Russo brothers wanted people to believe - that there was some mystery behind the old man.)

by Anonymousreply 293April 22, 2021 2:56 AM

Two Steves existing in the same timeline for years and nobody noticed? Yikes.

by Anonymousreply 294April 22, 2021 4:33 AM

The husband wasn't Steve, the time travel setup in Endgame meant that the Peggy who Steve married and settled down with was from an alternate timeline. Whoever Peggy married in the main timeline was some other guy. The writers had no idea they would be writing Endgame, or whatever Endgame was when they were scripting Winter Soldier, internally within Marvel the assumption was, up until 2014, that Joss would be overseeing the Avengers movies that would deal with Thanos. So the husband line was left vague because they wanted the audience to come up with an idea of a man that Peggy would marry after her first love was someone like Steve.

by Anonymousreply 295April 22, 2021 5:23 AM

I had a hard time believing the idea that Steve could have gone back in time and lived for decades without being a superhero. He’s a do-gooder, how could he sit by when there was trouble in the world? Plus he was married to Agent Carter from SHIELD, not some frau in the suburbs. (Did he reveal to her or anyone that SHIELD was infiltrated by Hydra?)

by Anonymousreply 296April 22, 2021 5:43 AM

Stan is hot as hell, the other guy could be replaced far as im concerned....just generic.

by Anonymousreply 297April 22, 2021 5:47 AM

R296 Indeed.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 298April 22, 2021 6:20 AM

[quote]I had a hard time believing the idea that Steve could have gone back in time and lived for decades without being a superhero.

He already knew the future. So essentially the world didn't end before he was unfrozen and he saved it a few times after he was unfrozen and he shows up right when he knew he'd leave to start his time loop.

[quote]The husband wasn't Steve, the time travel setup in Endgame meant that the Peggy who Steve married and settled down with was from an alternate timeline.

[italic]Only[/italic] on the internet do people argue with the people who wrote it.

Also it's funny that people have an easier time believing that Steve would go back in time, break up Peggy's marriage he heard about in the main timeline and also prevent her from having two kids he knew she'd have by deciding to stop whoever met her from meeting her so he could get in there.

He wouldn't do that.

(And he didn't have to because he was the father of those children.)

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 299April 22, 2021 7:22 AM

But the very time travel rules they setup means that it's impossible for the husband to be Steve, the Avengers didn't technically travel back in time, they traveled to another timeline. It seems to me they forgot their own rules. And as someone above said, if Steve existed within the MCU off-screen with Peggy, would it be in character for him to sit back and watch things like Hydra further infiltrate SHIELD, Bucky being used as the Winter Soldier and the many other things that happened prior to his defrosting? No, it devalues the character and the morals he stood for.

by Anonymousreply 300April 22, 2021 8:11 AM

So Steve goes back and manages to avoid his pictures being taken all of his life? And Hydra never figures out that some guy who looks like a slightly older Steve is living with Captain America's ex? I am sorry, but those writers aren't as clever as they think they are.

by Anonymousreply 301April 22, 2021 8:15 AM

The main issue here is that Steve, when going back in time, managed FOR DECADES to not interfere in ANY event that would have caused a new timeline. That is just plain ridiculous. I mean, it's just asking for a spoof ("JFK getting shot? Naw, better lay low!").

by Anonymousreply 302April 22, 2021 8:22 AM

[quote]But the very time travel rules they setup means that it's impossible for ...

I think people remember it differently than what she said.

[quote]"The Infinity Stones create what you experience as the flow of time. Remove one stone and that flow splits. Now, this may benefit your reality but my new one, not so much. In this new branched reality, without our chief weapon against the forces of darkness, our world will be overrun. Millions will suffer. So, tell me, Doctor, can your science prevent all that?"

Time hinges on the stones. She's pretty clear that the timeline/reality the Avengers come from will be fine but by taking a stone from the past to their present, that would create a new timeline for her/The Ancient One -- not the Avengers. "This may benefit your reality but my new one not so much." She is the one getting the new reality.

So yes, Cap can jump back in time and not create a new reality because he's returning the stones from where they got them so that everything the stones went through from the point they took them is avoided.

As Christopher Markus, one of the Endgame writers said:

[quote]“We are not experts on time travel, but the Ancient One specifically states that when you take an Infinity Stone out of a timeline it creates a new timeline. So Steve going back and just being there would not create a new timeline. So I reject the ‘Steve is in an alternate reality’ theory.

[quote]"I do believe that there is simply a period in world history from about ’48 to now where there are two Steve Rogers. And anyway, for a large chunk of that one of them is frozen in ice. So it’s not like they’d be running into each other.”

I think normal time travel rules would dictate that Steve simply going back would change the timeline but no, for them, time "flows" around the stones. Steve going back to Peggy didn't involve the movement of stones from their time period so it wouldn't change anything with their rules. So, what happened already had happened to Peggy and for her, Cap had already traveled back in the same timeline.

[quote]if Steve existed within the MCU off-screen with Peggy, would it be in character for him to sit back and watch things like Hydra further infiltrate SHIELD,

He just watched one of his friends die, saved the universe after a hard 5 year period and was already disillusioned with the government thanks to Civil War. What he did, was choose being with the love of his life knowing that Bucky will be okay and that SHIELD would eventually defeat Hydra. That is a Steve thing.

And I'm off for the next few days. Thanks for the discussion!

by Anonymousreply 303April 22, 2021 8:56 AM

So in Winter Soldier, when Cap sits with senile Peggy, old Steve is hiding in the next room? Surely not.

by Anonymousreply 304April 22, 2021 12:01 PM

Time traveling Steve helps Peggy build SHIELD, knowing what SHIELD would become and need in the future. Nice!

by Anonymousreply 305April 22, 2021 2:53 PM

You don't think Howard Stark might have noticed that Peggy's husband looked a lot like Steve?

by Anonymousreply 306April 22, 2021 2:55 PM

Do we know for sure he didn't know? Just because they didn't announce it to the neighbours at the street BBQ, doesn't necessarily mean they didn't tell 1 or 2 people they trusted and then swore them to secrecy. And Howard and Tony weren't even remotely close and he died unexpectedly so no one in the later generations would have any idea.

by Anonymousreply 307April 22, 2021 3:17 PM

Tony grew up hearing about Steve Rogers from his parents, especially his dad. As in, Steve was a fucking LEGEND. I'd hazard a guess that Howard knew that Steve travelled back in time to be with Peggy. That's the sort of shit that would keep a man like Howard Stark impressed enough to talk about you for the rest of his life.

And no, he wouldn't have told Tony. Tony was a whiny, drunk prick and didn't get along with his dad.

by Anonymousreply 308April 22, 2021 3:24 PM

If following the above rules about the perception of time, why didn't they follow Rhodey's advice of killing baby Thanos? Because they can't influence the past of their timeline because it's already happened. In those other timelines, the Avengers from an alternative timeline appeared and influence them, that always happened. They can change the present because it hasn't happened from their point of view yet. So, they never traveled back in time, they traveled to an alternative timeline, we never see the main MCU past in Endgame, we only ever witnessed alternative timelines. So for them to have Steve travel to the main MCU universe past would be the first time it happened and off-screen, that would be extremely poor screenwriting.

I know some desperately want main timeline Peggy to be with Steve, but it just isn't so even if the scriptwriters state it's that way, because their rules state it isn't possible. I think the writers were just trying to appease some fans who were crying because they didn't get the perfect ending.

by Anonymousreply 309April 22, 2021 5:39 PM

R309 You just explained exactly why it was possible, based on their rules, then claimed it wasn't.

Steve went back to the past and lived out his life with Peggy, because he had already done so in that timeline. The writers wrote him into a predestination paradox.

by Anonymousreply 310April 22, 2021 7:32 PM

You're arguing about time travel.

You can flux capacitor all you want about temporal paradoxes and causality loops.

However, in fiction, what matters is that the technology or magic system operates with internally consistent rules. It doesn't even really matter what the writers claim if it violates their own stated rules for such things.

by Anonymousreply 311April 22, 2021 7:37 PM

R309, You can't kill Baby Thanos because Baby Thanos hasn't done anything yet. That's immoral. The Avengers would never an innocent baby cause at that point he is.

R311, They didn't break their own rules, you just don't understand them. You only create a new timeline if you move a stone from where it is supposed to be in the past. Otherwise, you don't.

by Anonymousreply 312April 22, 2021 7:44 PM

I'm not arguing either side.

I'm opining about the argument itself.

by Anonymousreply 313April 22, 2021 7:46 PM

[quote] The writers wrote him into a predestination paradox.

Peggy: Steve, can you take out the trash?

Steve: Sorry, can't. Can't mess up the timeline.

Peggy: Steve, can you get the kids to soccer practice?

Steve: Honey! I can't leave the house! What if someone recognizes me? That would totally screw the timeline!

Petty: Steve, the house is on fire!

Steve: Timeline, baby! Can't mess with it!

by Anonymousreply 314April 22, 2021 7:51 PM

[quote] Also it's funny that people have an easier time believing that Steve would go back in time, break up Peggy's marriage he heard about in the main timeline and also prevent her from having two kids he knew she'd have by deciding to stop whoever met her from meeting her so he could get in there.

But he would have had to know before he went back that he wouldn’t be changing the timeline, and there’s no sign in the movies that he knew Peggy had been secretly married to him all her life.

by Anonymousreply 315April 22, 2021 8:05 PM

[quote]And how many of the theories about WandaVIsion turned out to be true?

How many were proven false? Aha!

by Anonymousreply 316April 22, 2021 8:16 PM

😻 r290

by Anonymousreply 317April 22, 2021 8:16 PM

Writers never let things get in the way of the story they want to write, that's why plotholes can be found in all of fiction. They wanted Steve to have this happy ending, yes you have to fudge their timetravel rules for it to make sense.

No point arguing about it til you are blue in the face, it is what it is.

by Anonymousreply 318April 22, 2021 8:23 PM

The advantage of the alternate timeline scenario is it explains why Steve isn’t around for them to talk to (though not how he got there to give Sam the shield).

by Anonymousreply 319April 22, 2021 8:25 PM

I've seen people saying they want Evan's back to play Hydra Cap. FUCK THAT NOISE. I want Evans back for R290. Give the gays what we want! Nazis already have the GQP!

by Anonymousreply 320April 22, 2021 8:38 PM

So if Steve went back and it's a fixed point, why do we never see that version of time travel? We only ever see the alternate timelines. The writers are that bad that such a major time traveling device is left without a reason for it's possibility? That screams fanfiction to me, and while the MCU can border into fanbait, it's never gone full fanfiction, yet.

by Anonymousreply 321April 22, 2021 9:25 PM

.....

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 322April 22, 2021 10:49 PM

Λ I want to present hole but I want to look butch. But still a little fabulous.

by Anonymousreply 323April 23, 2021 12:13 AM

Well that was a weak final episode and I blame that on it being built around Karli and the flagsmashers, they were the least interesting part of the show. Karli just came off as an obnoxious, sociopathic teenager who the writers were telling us to sympathise with as she killed innocent people as Captain America agreed with her, thank fuck Sharon was around to shoot the bitch and bring an end to her cringe.

So Sam's Cap, gave a speech to some influential people that changed their mind... to make an impossible situation better? That was another on the nose, woke, moment that fell flat.

The final episode should've dealt with John Walker and Zemo, they were the two most interesting aspects of the show, but they dropped those parts for a bunch of politicians driven round New York while a ginger fro runs away from her actions. Turning Zemo into the comic relief was also disappointing, he was a great character in Civil War and there was plenty of material to work with in terms of what happened to his family and we never understood what his opinion on Thanos's actions were either and I was interested to hear that. Buckys past should've been touched on more and that wouldve made the show even stronger, but it seems outside of the first episode the writers were much more interested in Sam's sisters boat than Buckys emotional state.

So Sharon's a bad guy now? I guess they had to frame Karlis killer in a negative light as they wanted her to appear pure.

by Anonymousreply 324April 23, 2021 8:33 AM

Swapping “Karl” for “Karlie” was an experiment that failed. That ginger actress is awful. She can’t act. I was relieved when she got killed. No more bland long stares and boring monologues.

by Anonymousreply 325April 23, 2021 12:44 PM

Outside of being the poster child of being mixed race, I don't understand how that actress keeps getting cast in big productions.

The best part was when Zemo had the vehicle full of super soldiers blown up, he should've done that from the moment he was let out of prison and the show could've soared.

by Anonymousreply 326April 23, 2021 12:48 PM

How on earth do you come to the conclusion that the problem with the plot was it was a girl instead of a guy r325? Putting a dick on the character isn't going to make that plotline any better written.

by Anonymousreply 327April 23, 2021 12:50 PM

R327 I didn’t say that she was solely responsible for ruining the series. I am saying swapping genders was pointless and pandering. Especially, since they cast such a boring actress in the role. She brought nothing memorable or exciting to this show. She doesn’t have any onscreen charisma, I don’t find it believable that she would amass such a following.

by Anonymousreply 328April 23, 2021 12:55 PM

I don't get the hate for the actress... other than she played the exact same character in Star Wars: A Solo Story.

by Anonymousreply 329April 23, 2021 2:13 PM

To me, Karli was just a Maguffin. The actual story was Sam's journey, and she was just the way the way they got him there.

The title change to Captain America and the Winter Soldier just got to me.

by Anonymousreply 330April 23, 2021 2:43 PM

To me Karli wasn't the problem of this show. Wasting so much time on that stupid boat story plot was. Dear God, by episode five I wanted some villain to show up and burn that fucking thing until it sinks to the ground.

by Anonymousreply 331April 23, 2021 3:30 PM

I teared up when Sam brought Isaiah to the tribute to his service.

by Anonymousreply 332April 23, 2021 4:34 PM

"It's the Black Falcon."

"No, that's Captain America."

I didn't tear up, but that also hit me. As did the guy from the GRC asking for Sam's help by calling out "Cap?"

by Anonymousreply 333April 23, 2021 4:43 PM

"US Agent" does sound stupid when spoken aloud.

by Anonymousreply 334April 23, 2021 4:46 PM

Loved Gay Uncle Bucky in the last scene. Good to see him smiling and socializing like the Bucky we knew before HYDRA got him.

by Anonymousreply 335April 23, 2021 8:37 PM

And a fourth Cap movie with Sam in the lead role has been confirmed, the show runner of falcon and winter soldier is writing it along with the writer of episode 5. I'm not surprised by this, I thought this was where they were leading to with the show, using it to get the setup out of the way and letting Sam jump straight into being Cap for his first solo.

Bucky getting his own solo series called Nomad makes sense as well, falcon and winter soldier dealt with him finally letting go of the past and a new show will allow him to become his own person.

by Anonymousreply 336April 23, 2021 9:09 PM

"I thought Captain America was on the moon."

Never stop trolling us, Marvel!

So it was kind of messy overall but with a lot of cool stuff sprinkled in. Love Sam's new suit. Not only does it look good but being (presumably) vibranium it makes up for the lack of superpowers.

by Anonymousreply 337April 23, 2021 9:21 PM

[quote]Love Sam's new suit

It is a PERFECT recreation of the version from the comics.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 338April 23, 2021 9:33 PM

I guess if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

by Anonymousreply 339April 23, 2021 9:52 PM

Not super excited for a Captain Lecture movie, but hopefully they'll get to tell the story the way they want to

by Anonymousreply 340April 23, 2021 9:53 PM

But surely racism has now been cured within the MCU thanks to Sam's speech? So there wont be any need for any further lectures.

by Anonymousreply 341April 23, 2021 9:57 PM

[quote]Bucky getting his own solo series called Nomad makes sense as well

Where did you see this? It certainly wasn't hinted at in the show itself.

by Anonymousreply 342April 23, 2021 11:50 PM

Completely unexpectedly. the army of 4Chan Klan Grannies have spammed the Rotten Tomatoes rating for this episode.

Hmmm, I wonder why.

by Anonymousreply 343April 24, 2021 3:44 AM

Because it was piss poor compared to the previous episodes.

by Anonymousreply 344April 24, 2021 6:16 AM

I thought the final title card would be Captain America and The White Wolf, since it was a turning point for Bucky as well. Looking forward to seeing a Bucky who is not defined by the Winter Soldier baggage. He's kind of a more suave and sardonic version of Steve which should be fun.

I was chatting about the finale with someone and I liked how he talked about Sam taking up the mantle: It was cool when Falcon made his big entrance, and Falcon dealing with the helicopters was awesome, but the best part was when Captain America made a speech.

by Anonymousreply 345April 24, 2021 9:58 AM

Seb Stan could definitely carry his own series as Nomad or White Wolf. I hope that's the direction Marvel is headed.

by Anonymousreply 346April 24, 2021 10:06 AM

The finale should've had a scene between Karli and Sam where they talk about their ideals and how the displacement issue is a horrific and a tricky one to deal with, Karli realizes that she has been going about her flagsmasher thing the wrong way, she's changed and is going to try and right some wrongs when Walker brutally kills her in front of all those cameras. It would've brought her arc to a tragic end and given the government good reason to remove Walker as Captain America, tying both plots together at their conclusion.

by Anonymousreply 347April 24, 2021 10:20 AM

R304 it could be argued that Peggy wasn’t suffering from dementia. Her confusion w young Steve could be seen as being motivated by the fact that she’s spent her life w the aging Steve.

by Anonymousreply 348April 24, 2021 10:56 AM

Er, she actually says 'Steve, you're alive!', R348. And they were in the middle of a conversation. when she went funny. The only way for it to work for the 'old Steve's in the next room' retcon is if she actually does have dementia and her memory has reverted to the time she though he was dead.

by Anonymousreply 349April 24, 2021 12:17 PM

[quote]The finale should've had a scene between Karli and Sam where they talk about their ideals and how the displacement issue is a horrific and a tricky one to deal with, Karli realizes that she has been going about her flagsmasher thing the wrong way, she's changed and is going to try and right some wrongs when Walker brutally kills her in front of all those cameras. It would've brought her arc to a tragic end and given the government good reason to remove Walker as Captain America, tying both plots together at their conclusion.

Agreed that Sam should have been making the speech at Karli.

The army should have surrounded them with Sam telling them to stand down while he desperately tried to negotiate with Karli. Walker should have then stepped in and killed her. Finishing with Sam's speech at the senator.

I'm still hoping that Sharon Carter isn't a villain. I'm hoping that her Power Broker persona is a deep cover assignment or that that Sharon is a Skrull. I'm not liking the real Sharon being evil.

by Anonymousreply 350April 24, 2021 2:03 PM

Are Sam’s Falcon wings going to stay part of his Cap costume? Is it like that in the comics?

by Anonymousreply 351April 24, 2021 8:32 PM

Yes.

by Anonymousreply 352April 24, 2021 8:55 PM

R348, I don't think there's any reason why Peggy would have been faking dementia.

R314, Nothing Steve did in the past, could actually change the present timeline because he already did all of it. And how many years would it be before people saw Captain America's real face or were able to take a photo of him and put it in a format where multiple people could see it who MIGHT know him where ever he is in America? By the time young Cap was making public appearances and had his face splashed everywhere in the modern age, old Cap would only be recognized as an older version of him anyway and not the same one.

by Anonymousreply 353April 24, 2021 10:46 PM

Bucky is a way better character and I wish he was Cap. I would love to watch a stand-alone WS/Bucky movie. Seb Stan is an amazing actor.

by Anonymousreply 354April 25, 2021 9:08 AM

I'm not very invested in Sharon, but her situation makes her so-called friends and allies look bad. She had to go on the run after Civil War? And no one could be bothered to call Fury or Hill and say, "I know you still have connections. Help Sharon! You know, the agent who used to work for you and was loyal through the Hydra debacle?"

by Anonymousreply 355April 25, 2021 11:15 AM

It doesn't really make sense that if Sharon was in such hot water with the US government, she didn't contact Steve after the snap when HE was no longer on the run and let him know she was just hiding, not disintegrated. But that character seems to be a focal point for awful writing in the MCU.

by Anonymousreply 356April 25, 2021 4:44 PM

Did they establish that Sharon wasn't Snapped?

by Anonymousreply 357April 25, 2021 5:41 PM

Sharon was snapped, in the beginning of Endgame when the Avengers are checking on the people they've lost and they show all the snapped characters on a holograph, Sharon is one of them.

by Anonymousreply 358April 25, 2021 5:47 PM

R357, She was listed as a victim of the Snap in Endgame.

Look on the right, there's her face.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 359April 25, 2021 8:14 PM

Didn't care much about the reveal of Sharon as bad guy (that was obvious when she was introduced earlier this season). And what is it with these never-ending epilogues? Did it all start with Lord of the Rings: Return of the King?

by Anonymousreply 360April 25, 2021 8:25 PM

[quote] And what is it with these never-ending epilogues? Did it all start with Lord of the Rings: Return of the King?

What is it with people who think movies should end the second the bad guy is killed? They had other threads to wrap up.

by Anonymousreply 361April 25, 2021 8:30 PM

[quote]And what is it with these never-ending epilogues? Did it all start with Lord of the Rings: Return of the King?

You have to distinguish between the "epilogues" and the mid and end credit scenes which are actually teasers for upcoming features, not epilogues to the current story.

by Anonymousreply 362April 25, 2021 8:33 PM

r361. I remember a time when movies and TV shows wrapped up some storylines before the big fight.

by Anonymousreply 363April 25, 2021 8:33 PM

MCU Sharon wasn't remotely interesting until she became a bitter baddie. That IT geek that Crossbones almost shot for disobeying orders had a better storyline.

by Anonymousreply 364April 25, 2021 10:44 PM

I miss Big Daddy Zemo. Bucky should have hate-fucked him. It was so hot when he pretended to be Winter Soldier again, taking Daddy Zemo's orders, being 'handled' by him.

by Anonymousreply 365April 25, 2021 10:53 PM

What rubbed me the wrong way was that the rest of the supersoldiers were just treated like abominations which needed to be eradicated. They were just followers who believed in a cause. It was Kari who pulled the trigger so to speak and was responsible for killing people and the show made it clear that her followers were clearly not ok with that. And yet, they "deserved" to die?

by Anonymousreply 366April 26, 2021 8:46 AM

[quote]Sharon was snapped

But when was she Skrulled?

by Anonymousreply 367April 26, 2021 11:24 AM

I do know that MCU wants to do a series on the Wakanda warrior women.

Also, visit Madripoor!

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 368April 26, 2021 12:39 PM

I want an Ayo series, that actress is brilliant and had some of the strongest screen presence throughout the whole series, even though she was only in it for a total of 10 minutes.

by Anonymousreply 369April 26, 2021 2:41 PM

Ayo and her girlfriend Aneka were a vigilante team called the Midnight Angels that had their own miniseries called World of Wakanda. Since they're working on a series with that title, that's a safe bet.

by Anonymousreply 370April 26, 2021 2:53 PM

They were not ok with it r366, but they still followed her.

And did they get some super fighting abilities when they took the serum ? Because Bucky and Walker seemed to have some trouble fighting a few augmented nobodies.

by Anonymousreply 371April 26, 2021 2:58 PM

Baron Zemo told both Sam and Bucky he was gonna kill every super soldier he could (except for Bucky, his favorite) because he felt they were abominations. Why would he let the Flagsmashers live just because they were "followers"? Nazis were "followers" too.

I do wonder why he didn't go after Walker, though. That dude obviously doesn't have all his oars in the water and probably can't find his way back to the dock without help. I don't remember Zemo mentioning him.

by Anonymousreply 372April 26, 2021 3:14 PM

I don't think Zemo was aware that Walker had taken the supersoldier serum. I'm curious to know how Walker even administered the serum, I understand technology has moved on since the 40s but it was a pretty brutal experience for Steve when he was experimented on and needed experts to administer it.

by Anonymousreply 373April 26, 2021 3:18 PM

True, R373. He probably didn't know about Walker until news of the last fight in Manhattan. He'll know now, though. His butler is gonna be a busy old bitch!

by Anonymousreply 374April 26, 2021 3:21 PM

[quote] Baron Zemo told both Sam and Bucky he was gonna kill every super soldier he could (except for Bucky, his favorite) because he felt they were abominations. Why would he let the Flagsmashers live just because they were "followers"? Nazis were "followers" too.

[quote] And by killing them he, and his loyal butler, became a Nazis themselves killing "abominations". And no, I don't consider following someone is justification for murder.

by Anonymousreply 375April 26, 2021 3:24 PM

R374 Could be that Walker will be in the Dark Avengers and Zemo will join the thunderbolts and both teams will be pitted against each other, Walkers supersoldier status would make it a personal thing for Zemo. At which point the New Avengers intervene, lead by Sam as Captain America.

by Anonymousreply 376April 26, 2021 3:28 PM

I didn't say their murder was justified, R375. I'm saying that's why the villain with the awesome duster Baron Zemo killed them. FFS, it's his entire origin story. Maybe you should send a strongly worded email to Marvel for years of character history and CC the writers of TFAWS.

by Anonymousreply 377April 26, 2021 3:29 PM

That sounds entertaining, R376!

by Anonymousreply 378April 26, 2021 3:30 PM

[quote] I didn't say their murder was justified, [R375].

And all I said was that it rubbed me the wrong way. So, you can stop twisting your tits over my opinion.

by Anonymousreply 379April 26, 2021 3:49 PM

Narratively I was surprised they killed off all the super soldiers. Always nice to save some for future stories.

I bet Sharon saved a dose for herself though. She was just waiting to see what side effects manifested in the flag smashers.

by Anonymousreply 380April 26, 2021 9:01 PM

The way that Sharon kicked the ass of every bounty hunter in the Madripoor shipyard scene leads one to believe that she dosed herself with the super soldier serum r380

by Anonymousreply 381April 27, 2021 12:33 AM

Good point, R381.

Are all y'all gonna watch Loki? I'm not terribly interested. I might binge it someday but not planning to watch while it airs.

by Anonymousreply 382April 27, 2021 11:00 AM

Loki, yes. Black Widow, maybe. Hawkeye...only because there is an actress that I like in it.

by Anonymousreply 383April 27, 2021 11:02 AM

I'm on the fence about Loki. I enjoy that character because he hasn't been the focus. I'm not sure that much Hiddles in that role isn't going to get old, fast.

I'll probably watch just because Loki will probably tie into the next Dr. Strange film and some minor Loki character will be meaningful.

by Anonymousreply 384April 27, 2021 1:52 PM

The trailer for Loki looks AWESOME, and it covers one of the biggest plot "holes" on Endgame, so I want to see how that's resolved.

by Anonymousreply 385April 27, 2021 2:12 PM

I guess I'm just not a fan of Loki. And not currently in the mood for timey-wimey/multiversal shenanigans. Somewhat interested in Black Widow and Hawkeye. Spy stuff sounds fun. And though Jeremy Renner is dull as mud, the new characters(s) might be interesting.

by Anonymousreply 386April 27, 2021 2:23 PM

When will Loki be released?

by Anonymousreply 387April 27, 2021 2:52 PM

Google it, you lazy whore ^

by Anonymousreply 388April 27, 2021 3:10 PM

June 11th.

by Anonymousreply 389April 27, 2021 3:11 PM

So far the show reminds me of "Agent Carter", and I didn't particularly like "Agent Carter". Both shows are Marvel in no-fun mode, where there's none of the funny or sexy moments that make the movies my favorites.

But yeah, it's Agent Carter all over again, where a hero who isn't a straight white man has to confront institutionalized bigotry within the institutions they believed in, and they very shortly end up working outside the rules or the law, with someone they don't much like but with whom they have some sexual chemistry...

by Anonymousreply 390April 27, 2021 4:20 PM

Blow out your tiki torch r390 Agent Carter was a very fun show

by Anonymousreply 391April 27, 2021 5:24 PM

I loved Agent Carter.

I liked Falcon & Winter Soldier.

by Anonymousreply 392April 27, 2021 5:43 PM

What if Sharon is really MYSTIQUE? Great way to bring in the X-Men!

by Anonymousreply 393April 28, 2021 3:32 AM

R240

[quote] But the idea that he would cross continents to try to murder Bucky was just... stupid.

He didn’t go after Bucky until AFTER he crossed the continents. He didn’t know about his parents yet.

by Anonymousreply 394April 28, 2021 10:40 AM

AGREE, STAN IS FAB HOT, THE OTHER GUY NOT SO MUCH

by Anonymousreply 395April 30, 2021 7:16 AM

"He [Tony Stark] was behaving like a child while Steve was trying to protect his best friend from being wrongfully imprisoned or killed by the government and/or T'Challa. Their motives weren't on equal footing, which makes the "civil war" and its fallout seem so ridiculous."

Actually, R240, their motives were on pretty damn equal footing. They were both acting emotionally and pretty irrationally about a threat to the person closest to them.

And yes, Steve was acting as emotionally as Tony was. He wanted to protect Bucky even though he'd found out he was a long-term mass murderer, the logical and dutiful thing would be to hand him over to he authorities along with what he'd discovered about brainwashing and programming, and to tell Tony that turning in the murderer was their mutual duty. Instead, Rogers fought Stark with an intensity that only makes sense if he was in love with the man he was protecting, and then he went on the lam and didn't care which of his other friends he hurt in the process. Gawd, it was gay subtext as text, right in front of the mainstream's eyes!

by Anonymousreply 396April 30, 2021 4:18 PM

Except there was no chance for Cap to turn Bucky over before Stark attacked. It all happened within a few seconds.

by Anonymousreply 397April 30, 2021 9:43 PM

My thoughts on the series:

For a show titled The Falcon and The Winter Soldier, we didn't get that much Winter Soldier. I feel cheated.

Sam is a dull, bland character played by a dull, bland actor. He was outshone in every scene by everyone except the ugly chick who played Karli. I disliked how Bucky was nerfed and sidelined to pump up Sam. If Mackie can't even carry a Disney+ show, how is he going to carry a movie? I suspect Captain America 4 will not do all that well, comparatively speaking, and it'll be blamed on racism, not a dull protagonist.

I was rooting for the Flag Smashers to blow up that stupid boat. I don't care about Sam's sister's money problems.

I wanted more Zemo and Bucky scenes, preferably more Zemo 'handling' the Winter Soldier.

I don't give a rat's ass that Walker de-nogginized that terrorist - his only mistake was doing it in public. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Loved the Butler coolly taking out the rest of the Flag Smashers. When Zemo deals with a problem, he DEALS with it. It's nice to see competence for a change. I suspect Zemo has read the Evil Overlord List.

I didn't think it was racism for the banker to deny a loan for a business that hadn't turned a profit in five years to a man who had no income, job or assets for collateral. Sure, he was a dick for asking for Sam's autograph, but I doubt he would have given a white man a loan under the same circumstances.

As usual for the MCU, the government agent who makes perfectly good arguments about the behavior of enhanced people, or against the actions of a terrorist (I'm looking at you Wanda!), is then shown to be over the top evil so we're supposed to discount every good point he makes. (ex. Ross and Tony in Civil War pointing out that the Avengers need accountability and oversight after the completely avoidable clusterfuck in Lagos.)

Sam willingly gave the shield back to the government. His outrage that they gave it to someone who wanted the job was ridiculous.

Bucky's therapist was terrible. Your patient reveals that his entire self-worth is based on the good opinion of someone else and you don't follow up on that? Maybe tell him that Steve Rogers isn't the universal arbitrator of goodness and worth?

The bald Wakandan chicks were arrogant in the extreme. Trying to kill Walker because he made a couple of condescending comments and *gasp* touched one of them on the shoulder wasn't cool, it was psychotic. It doesn't make me want to watch Black Panther 2.

by Anonymousreply 398May 1, 2021 3:49 PM

R398 makes the mistake of assume anyone cares about his self-absorbed idiot opinions.

by Anonymousreply 399May 1, 2021 4:12 PM

R65 yes! I remember that post! I thought for ages that I was imagining it, because I was the only to bring it up. Didn’t that same poster also say that Stan was really sweaty and stank horribly of B.O.? The poster and he met and hooked up at a party iirc the story right. Wonder if they were telling the truth?

There is also the case of the magazine article/interview very early in Stan’s career where he hinted at being bi, that was scrubbed from the Internet. It was so long ago I don’t recall anymore which publication it was or the date it came out, but I feel like I’m 99% certain it existed and I read it. Would love to have confirmation.

by Anonymousreply 400May 1, 2021 4:23 PM

R156 Stan has done like five tv shows where he plays a sad gay addict. It’s wild.

by Anonymousreply 401May 1, 2021 4:24 PM

Yeah, that's the question... is Sam an interesting enough person, played by an interesting enough actor, to build a new franchise around?

I don't know that he is, he's fantastic to watch in action, and I am rooting for him to step up and overcome obstacles become the new Captain America, but I don't give a shit about his family and all those arguments over money and an old boat are a drag on the show. They struck gold with the first Captain America, I mean I never thought I'd like or lust after anyone playing such a boring superhero, but so far... Sam just isn't as appealing as Steve.

by Anonymousreply 402May 1, 2021 4:59 PM

Captain Marvel isn't an interesting character and Brie Larson isn't an interesting actress and that movie made over a billion dollars.

by Anonymousreply 403May 1, 2021 5:01 PM

R403, The success of Captain Marvel was due to Marvel hype and that it came out right before Endgame. I truly think that Captain Marvel 2 will earn a lot less at the Box Office.

Much as I hated to agree with the neckbeards, it wasn't a good movie and Brie Larson was a block of wood.

by Anonymousreply 404May 1, 2021 5:13 PM

[quote]is Sam an interesting enough person, played by an interesting enough actor, to build a new franchise around?

Sam is just about as interesting as Steve. Mackey is probably a slightly better actor than Evans. The difference is that Chris Evans was known for his body and that + Marvel + the popularity of the character drove people to see it. You could have cast almost anyone hot in that role and they would have been fine. It did not require heavy lifting.

[quote]I remember that post! I thought for ages that I was imagining it, because I was the only to bring it up. Didn’t that same poster also say that Stan was really sweaty and stank horribly of B.O.? The poster and he met and hooked up at a party iirc the story right. Wonder if they were telling the truth?

That thread is here from 2011

and the person said:

[quote]I'm sorry to report that overall it was a rather disappointing experience. he was incredibly sweaty, had bad breath and smelled terrible (combination of smoke and BO) which was a big turn off, I don't know if it was just bad personal hygiene or a result of the coke he'd been snorting all night. Average cock, nothing to write home about. He did give amazing head though.

So there's that. Also no one was sure if it was a man or a woman because they didn't say. Some assumed man, some assumed woman but they only posted twice.

[quote]Wonder if they were telling the truth?

Anyone can make up anything here.

I find that you can only find out if they're telling the truth if the poster gives details that no one else knows that later are independently confirmed by something the actor says, does or you see with your own two eyes.

Otherwise there have been massive lies said and spread about people on here that were later busted like the Prancing Ponies or the Marcia Cross is coming out. Then again there have been very consistent stories about certain people from over the years from completely different posters. (As for Stan many people over the years who have met him here have all said he's super nice.)

Also I've found someone will post a story on here years ago that someone else repeats years later but they change the details because their memories suck and then that new story will get repeated. People's memories aren't as great as they think they are most of the time.

But really when it all gets down to brass tacks: People have been citing ONE anonymous post since 2011 from a poster who never posted again after their initial response as proof that he's gay, bi or has BO.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 405May 1, 2021 5:18 PM

I think Marvel has made such a strong name for itself that their future movies are relatively secure in terms of making money, however Kevin Feige isn't unaware that for that a series to maintain interest the quality has to be kept high and he can only afford a couple of bumps in the road before things falter, look at how he brought in Taika Waititi to reinvent Thor after the mediocre second installment.

I also agree that I hated that the neckbeards were right, I had a lot of hope that Captain Marvel would be enjoyable but it was forgettable and her brief appearance in Endgame added nothing to the character, she literally destroys Thanos's ship single handedly and yet no big feeling from it, Wanda turns up for few minutes and nearly kills Thanos and it's a great moment because of the emotional context behind it.

by Anonymousreply 406May 1, 2021 5:24 PM

"Sam is just about as interesting as Steve"

I disagree, but I do allow that what made Steve Rogers an interesting screen hero is more the writing than the acting. Making him totally out of place in the modern world gave a stodgy old character a new slant and a bit of misfit underdog appeal, which is kind of hard to pull off with a Neitzschean superman. But the writers kept throwing ethical curveballs and the character and kept him off of balance, and Evans played him with an gawky innocence and discomfort in his own body that never went away, and that and the hotness and the gay subtext-as-text made him both likeable and lustworthy.

Now Sam has some of that misfit appeal as he has no superpowers, just a way cool flying suit and occasional use of a vibranium shield, plus trying the convince the world and government to accept a black Captain America. But the fact is, most that is outside factors (same for the boring family stuff), we haven't seen much of Sam's inner life and what we've seen isn't that unusual or interesting. That's what they'll have to build up.

by Anonymousreply 407May 1, 2021 5:35 PM

Will they? Or will they spend more time focusing on that damn boat?!

by Anonymousreply 408May 1, 2021 5:38 PM

Honestly, so far the most interesting thing about Sam's boat and home town, is that it could provide Bucky with a place where he'd be happy (happier) and where he could heal.

Maybe that's why they're spending so damn much time on the boat, they're going to have Bucky live on it.

by Anonymousreply 409May 1, 2021 5:54 PM

[quote] I do allow that what made Steve Rogers an interesting screen hero is more the writing than the acting.

I like the way you put this. Steve Rogers/Captain America is a character with a rich backstory. The "out of time" thing helped make him more interesting as well as having to face moral dilemmas but the first thing slowly went by the wayside and the second thing didn't really kick into high gear until Civil War. In short: it took time and multiple movies.

Falcon is also "out of time" although not to the same degree as Steve, returning to a world after he was blipped out of existence. He doesn't have Peggy Carter but he does have a sister and two nephews. He is already disillusioned with the government (growing more so as the show goes on) until the end of the series when he starts to turn and honestly they had to address the black "Captain America" thing because most audience members would expect it and it would ring false if they didn't.

We'll see how things develop but I still don't place them that far apart in my mind.

[quote] (same for the boring family stuff)

One of his nephews died of AIDS in the comics and was one of the first characters to have HIV. He was also the sidekick of the Incredible Hulk. They obviously can't go that route in 2021 and beyond, and neither of the nephews on the show has his name and are too young for that story, but there's a lot of story there for Sam. Falcon has 52 years of story that the writers will have to mine. However, they have to start somewhere and that start is by introducing new characters that will grow as the stories and movies go on.

by Anonymousreply 410May 1, 2021 6:59 PM

[quote] I also agree that I hated that the neckbeards were right, I had a lot of hope that Captain Marvel would be enjoyable but it was forgettable and her brief appearance in Endgame added nothing to the character, she literally destroys Thanos's ship single handedly and yet no big feeling from it,

?????

That was one of the climatic moments in a movie that had many. I saw it on opening day. Many moviegoers shouted at that "something just entered the upper atmosphere" announcement. Then the drunk ones jumped out of their seats and hollered when she destroyed Thanos' ship. The character made a massive impression although Larson may not be the ideal actress for the part

by Anonymousreply 411May 1, 2021 10:38 PM

The new falcon suit sucks balls.

I’m more of an X-men guy rather than avengers guy, and the MCU just can’t get their shit together on that. But did anybody see that article the other day about how WV and FWS were avoiding a common pitfall in the MCU by leaving their villains around long enough to develop their characters? I thought it was a good point.

by Anonymousreply 412May 2, 2021 12:30 AM

Sebastian Stan recently revealed that Marvel decided to pair him up with Anthony Mackie for promotions and they thought that Sebastian seemed like he wouldn't want to talk and that Anthony would do all the talking for them.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 413May 2, 2021 4:47 AM

If you look at Sebastian's interviews from the first two Cap films, he's not the most engaged or engaging. He really comes out of his shell when paired with Mackie.

by Anonymousreply 414May 2, 2021 5:13 AM

I was watching the original CAWS movie and noticed at the end, they went to Fury’s empty gravesite and. Noticed the inscription on the headstone, “The path of the righteous man...” which of course is part of that patched together speech Jackson delivered before his executions in Pulp Fiction.

Now that would be a real crossover, Tarantino directs an MCU project.

by Anonymousreply 415May 2, 2021 5:14 PM

The new Captain Marvel will have different iterations of CM- I think it's three-so there will be less of the lantern-jawed BL to have screen time.

by Anonymousreply 416May 3, 2021 12:35 PM

It is interesting that all that chat of CM becoming the new leader of the Avengers stopped relatively soon after the release of Endgame, I guess marvel realized that it would be a mistake.

by Anonymousreply 417May 3, 2021 1:33 PM

Regarding Captain Marvel... I get what they were trying to do with her, but they failed to make what they were trying to do interesting or appealing. So this woman comes out of Earth's test pilot subculture, a subculture where feelings are reportedly so repressed that a crashing, panicking pilot was once told "Shut up and die like an aviator", and then she goes into the Kree warrior subculture where feelings and individuality are even more repressed. So yes, this would logically produce a person who expresses no emotion and is all business, at least when she's "on the job", right?

Yes, right, but the writers and Larsen missed the opportunity to show that yes, she actually did have feelings, a sense of humor, and maybe a touch of charm under the controlled facade! They should have had some moments in her old life where she relaxed and made jokes with her best friend, little beats where she looked like she was enjoying her adventure on Earth, and especially, an appearance in "Endgame" where she was a new person, one who was actively enjoying her life as a galactic superhero. Everyone else changed during the course of the Avengers films, why shouldn't she?

by Anonymousreply 418May 3, 2021 5:02 PM

They showed her old personality quite often, especially when she was interacting with Maria (killing her off was just stupid), Monica, and even Peter Parker in Endgame. She actually had more range in CM than people give her credit for.

by Anonymousreply 419May 3, 2021 5:06 PM

Captain Marvel should've been like The Long Kiss Goodnight, it picks up a year after she fell out of the sky, she has a relatively normal life working for SHIELD, we see her in character building scenes where she gets to have some fun and be more than amnesiac woman, some alien assassins led by Mendelsohn come looking for her, she then finds out that SHIELD know more than they're letting on, Fury helps her uncover her past, Jude Law turns up and we go from there.

It's telling that they've titled the sequel 'The Marvels' instead of Captain Marvel 2 or Captain Marvel: something something.

by Anonymousreply 420May 3, 2021 5:15 PM

Watching that sizzle reel from Marvel that released today, I started to think that the show setup the fact super soldiers existed in secret and this could explain the Red Guardian in Black Widow and perhaps Natasha was injected with a diluted version of the super soldier serum, which would explain her ability to survive extremely violent situations.

by Anonymousreply 421May 3, 2021 6:48 PM

[quote]So this woman comes out of Earth's test pilot subculture, a subculture where feelings are reportedly so repressed that a crashing, panicking pilot was once told "Shut up and die like an aviator", and then she goes into the Kree warrior subculture where feelings and individuality are even more repressed.

I have a lot of family members who are in the military and she nailed their demeanor while they're working. They can be the same way at home to an extent but my father, uncles, aunts and grandfathers always knew how to turn it off when they needed to and the contrast could be quite stark. Although sometimes it was clear a couple were faking turning it off since they had, "seen some shit!" but they had to develop that personality adjustment in order to interact with the rest of us normals.

[quote] Maria (killing her off was just stupid)

I'm absolutely furious about that. I hope at some point they'll show that she actually survived. Monica never saw her die and she was deep into alien tech so there's still a chance. Maria continued to be a part of Monica's life in the comics.

[quote]It's telling that they've titled the sequel 'The Marvels' instead of Captain Marvel 2 or Captain Marvel: something something.

It will take the bulk of the heavy lifting off of Larson's back but acknowledging that there are at multiple people who have held or currently hold claim to some variation of the title is pretty prominent in the comics. Monica was Captain Marvel long before Carol who has had other names. Ms. Marvel's surprise success as a comic after taking Carol's old name (which was Ms. Marvel before it was Captain Marvel) also meant that the two had to interact at some point. Monica and Carol in the comics have as well although they didn't have the relationship they have in the films.

by Anonymousreply 422May 5, 2021 9:46 PM

I miss our boys. And Ayo.

Maybe I'll give Agent Carter a try.

by Anonymousreply 423May 7, 2021 10:38 AM

If they were smart, they'd launch massive civil lawsuits against Fox News and against individual anchors like Carlson, Hannity, Gutfekd, and Bartiromo. Not to mention the Murdochs.

by Anonymousreply 424May 7, 2021 11:14 AM

I'm guessing 424 posted in the wrong thread... not that I disagree with him...

by Anonymousreply 425May 7, 2021 2:12 PM

I really wish the Avengers had taken a moment to think through what the hell would happen if they actually unsnapped things, and billions of people suddenly re-appeared after five years... to no jobs, and other people living in their houses or on their farmland. Of course massive social chaos would ensue!

But no, they never even talked about it, they were all so butthurt because Thanos beat them, that they couldn't think of anything but winning at any cost. No consideration of the social cost to the human population, none!

by Anonymousreply 426May 7, 2021 4:28 PM

Yeah. It's arguable that the un-snap is nearly as traumatic (universe-wide!) as the snap itself.

by Anonymousreply 427May 7, 2021 7:20 PM

How dare they reset a universal demi-genocide!

by Anonymousreply 428May 7, 2021 7:43 PM

We Got This Covered is claiming that Sebastian Stan will co-star in the Captain America movie. Stan will help to liven things up, and most people seem to like the chemistry between the two actors. However, some are wondering if the movie will go straight to Disney +.

I like Sam, but he is kinda boring, and I'm not digging the new suit. I think at some point they will kill Sam off and Bucky will be the new Cap.

by Anonymousreply 429May 8, 2021 3:53 AM

[quote]We Got This Covered is claiming that Sebastian Stan will co-star in the Captain America movie.

We Got This Covered just makes shit up.

by Anonymousreply 430May 8, 2021 2:27 PM

As Bucky has been in every Captain America movie so far, it would be stupid to bet against.

by Anonymousreply 431May 8, 2021 2:44 PM

Anthony and Sebastian have amazing chemistry. They said Sebastian is usually quiet (or something like that) on set, but Anthony brought a lot out of him.

by Anonymousreply 432May 8, 2021 2:49 PM

I want a Bucky solo, he is much more interesting than Sam and Seb has a bigger fanbase.

by Anonymousreply 433May 8, 2021 5:00 PM

I want a Nomad series with Bucky as Nomad. That way both of Steve's besties will have taken up one of his mantles.

by Anonymousreply 434May 8, 2021 8:24 PM

It'll be interesting if they made that show and it had better ratings than Falcon and Winter Soldier, would they make a solo movie for him as well?

by Anonymousreply 435May 8, 2021 8:47 PM

They're definitely squandering both Stan and the Bucky character's potential if they don't give him more to do than what they have, up until now.

by Anonymousreply 436May 8, 2021 9:10 PM

I think he’s going to go back to Wakanda as the White Wolf.

by Anonymousreply 437May 8, 2021 9:14 PM

Bucky / Zemo foreva

by Anonymousreply 438May 9, 2021 7:28 PM

mare of easttown puts in a surprise guest appearance soon, as SuperUglyLady of the Lake.

by Anonymousreply 439May 10, 2021 6:10 AM

I'm in the middle of binging FATWS, and I'm sorry, it's been disappointing. I love Anthony Mackie, Wyatt Russell, and Sebastian Stan. But the overall plot makes no sense. The terrorist who believes the world was better when half the population was blipped, wants someone who was blipped to join her side (Sam)? One minute the bad guys are LAF, then for the next several episodes it's the Flag Smashers.

One problem is Mackie and Stan don't have any chemistry. The show should've been Falcon and Hawkeye since Mackie and Jeremy Renner have proven chemistry. Zemo and the Winter Soldier would've been more entertaining as well. Another problem is that despite all the topical race stuff, Sam is characterized as just an angry black man.

by Anonymousreply 440May 12, 2021 5:39 AM

No, Sam isn't characterized as just an angry black man! He's a black American who does get upset about things, particularly things he thinks are due to race or unfairness, but he's a person who spends much more time being compassionate and hopeful than he does being angry. And that's a choice he's made, he's like Steve Rogers in that he aspires to rise above the anger and hurt, and to do what he can to make the world a better place. Remember when we met him, and he was running a support group for soldiers who'd been in combat? Was that a one-dimensional angry black man?

Sit on a traffic cone and push down hard, R440.

by Anonymousreply 441May 12, 2021 6:15 AM

R440, you're the first person I've seen who's said Mackie and Stan don't have chemistry. Their chemistry has been singled out for almost universal acclaim by critics and fans. It's one of the show's biggest strengths, IMO. Also, Sam is frequently portrayed as being the only voice of reason and compassion. The fact that you see him as an "angry black man" says something about you. If anything, Bucky is the angry one--that guy lashes out at everyone and is a second away from crushing skulls at any given time. I agree with your other points about the villain(s) though.

by Anonymousreply 442May 12, 2021 10:12 AM

r403, Captain Marvel was the movie equivalent of a time slot hit.

by Anonymousreply 443May 22, 2021 1:46 PM

One flaw in the show, was that you'd think the officials in charge would have had more sense about the "New Captain America" thing. Don't just announce him with fanfare and raise expectations for things that this guy will never be able to do, ease him into the role! Do a stealth rollout, have him do some heroic things and start rumors and speculative stories, see how he handles stressful situations, see what a regular human can accomplish with the shield, and see how the public responds, etc. Maybe have a corps of guys who get a week with the shield or something, before they get some time off to have a private life and recuperate from whatever injuries they've earned by being a normal human trying to do superhuman things, call them the "America Shield Corps" or whatever. That way, no one person would either crumble under the stress of trying to live up to Captain America's legacy, or develop a superhero-sized ego because they think they're a real superhero.

Yes, I know they started with the original Captain America by just making the announcement and using him for publicity, but he actually had superpowers! They couldn't, or shouldn't have done the same, when trying to replace a superhero with a non-enhanced human.

by Anonymousreply 444May 22, 2021 9:15 PM
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.

Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.

×

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!