Why hasn't "The Birdcage" been cancelled yet?

You do know it's based on a very popular French farce, right?

[quote] You do know it's based on a very popular French farce, right?

So is Pepe LePew.

And he's CANCELLED.

I'm confused:

How can you want something cancelled while at the same time want TCM to "closely examine" it for "problem areas."

[quote] Are you afraid of my Guatemalaness?...My Guatemalaness, my natural heat. You're afraid I'm too primitive to be on the stage with your little estrogen rockettes right?

The only role in which I thought Hank Azaria was hot.

It's ok when it's gay stereotypes. Doubly so when it's het actors playing those gay stereotypes.

MODERN FAMILY should be taken off the air because of the stereotypical way it depicts a gay - Cameron Tucker fat queen!

Right?

Precisely, R5.

[quote] How can you want something cancelled while at the same time want TCM to "closely examine" it for "problem areas."

TCM is considering cancelling movies, following an examination of "problem areas." Movies like GWTW, etc.

[quote]TCM is considering cancelling movies, following an examination of "problem areas." Movies like GWTW, etc.

No, that's not what I've read:

"No cancelling a movie because of certain depictions. Just a discussion on why those images are wrong today."

Its a fun movie and not offensive in the least, in context. 1) Cancelling is stupid. and 2) you don't even understand the criteria for cancelling. We old jaded sophisticated erudite gays have different criteria than rabid tacky woke gender fluids.

Ah, thanks for the clarification R8.

No, r7. Try again. They are NOT considering canceling anY movies. The whole series is about why the movies should NOT be canceled and why they should be played and viewed through the lens of an understanding of the time period in which they were made. This was completely covered in a similar thread where some shrieking moron was going on about how movies are being canceled without even reading the article he himself linked which explicitly spelled out what TCM is doing. That’s not what the network is saying. If you had done any research, if you had even read the article that was linked in that previous thread, you would have understood that. But, as always, people are reacting to buzzwords. They’re outraged and going about half-cocked. I suppose most conservatives are half-cocked in every conceivable way.

Williams and especially Lane are VERY good in this movie, OP.

Reaction of the "The Birdcage is offensive"-crowd:

[quote] They’re outraged and going about half-cocked.

Tehe. You said “cocked”.

much fun!

Well if only trans people can plan trans people now, and only black people can do voice work for black cartoon characters, then the same should apply to gay people.

For that reason, Robin Williams should be cancelled.

Plus, he's such a damned HAM.

It was a cute movie. I thought it was terrible though that the son didn't want his "mother" there.

[quote] It's ok when it's gay stereotypes. Doubly so when it's het actors playing those gay stereotypes.

Didn’t you get the memo: breeders are no longer allowed to play gay roles.

R16 many people don't agree with those stupid woke cancel criteria. Do you agree? You're just trolling.

You're trying so hard to troll. But nobody cares about your stupid criteria.

Actually R19, I'm not hard and fast about gay people having to play gay people. That's dumb.

However, I truly do think that Azaria's performance was insulting to Latinos. It was a gross stereotype.

The Birdcage is a beloved classic. There ARE effeminate gay men. Have you met any of us? It showed the variety of gay men, from those who can pass to those who are...Albert. It was a huge step forward for visibility before Will & Grace became such a huge mainstream hit. It's great and still funny. It doesn't skate over the tough spots (there's an abortion joke for Pete's sake) and it holds up .Everyone's well cast. And it improves over the already excellent French version. Get over it.

I prefer the original non Nathan Lane version.

OP. You sound smug, dumb, and humorless. Do the world a favor and walk into traffic.

[quote] Robin Williams should be cancelled.

He cancelled himself.

R21 its all stereotypes. Do you know anything about Théâtre de boulevard and French farce? Everything is exaggerated and offensive. It's similar to negro chitlin theatre.

I remember when both the French original La Cage (I was in college) and the Birdcage (in New York City in my early thirties) came out (no pun intended). All I can say is both got great reviews just for the mere fact they were bold and daring enough to tackle a seldom seen subject on films with enough sensitivity and on the right side of history - and for ultimately defending a same-sex relationship over the son’s humorously awkward homophobia.

BACK THEN that was more than enough for a movie to actually be pro-gay, funny, and camp - stereotypes be damned, We were actually willing to laugh at said stereotypes because the truth was , all of us in the gay community knew people like them and we were willing to laugh at ourselves. The gays came to watch both movies in droves, and the fact that Birdcage was a mainstream blockbuster was a cherry-on-top added bonus. And yes, Williams’ was the least legitimate performance, especially when he broke into his Fosse Fosse choreographic schtick. But all the other men in the cast stepped up to the plate and made us laugh by the buckets, so deal with it.

[quote]Alfred's extremely offensive portrayal of what looks to me like a Conservative Log Cabin Republican gay person, in an attempt to say, "See, we're not that different from a right-wing Conservative Senator after all!"

Who the hell is Alfred?

Gay men just aren't into cancel culture the same way some other groups are, and no one is going to go after Robin Williams after his suicide.

And I agree with R22. It's a beloved movie that has been a staple on cable for a quarter of a century. If we're not complaining (I can't speak for the Guatemalans), The Birdcage is safe for now.

[quote] Williams and especially Lane are VERY good in this movie

Why did that manic ham Williams allow Lane to play the showy role?

[quote] It was a huge step forward for visibility

Exactly. Like Harvey Fierstein used to say “Better any visibility than none at all.” When I was a little kid - there was none, period. Except murderers and psychos. Not a nice way to grow up homosexual.

Who is Alfred? Molina?

I have a friend who is 25. His father is gay, but was married to a women at the time, struggling with his sexuality. His father (now divorced) is comfortable with himself and now has a great relationship with his son, and is even on friendly terms with his ex wife. My young friend says that The Birdcage helped him understand his father and he says it gave him hope when he was a kid dealing with these issues. It's his favorite film, he absolutely loves it. Also, this young man is straight! The film really helped him through some sad, difficult times and it all worked out for him. I can't say a bad thing about the film.

In 2019, they showed the birdcage at Hollywood Forever cemetary in LA. 4,000 people, largely gay. There was booing at certain points, especially when the son asked Robin Williams to be more straight. The crowd still had fun and they knew what they were in for. But the entire concept of the ruse with the gay dads playing straight is very dated today.

Cancelling is probably on its last legs. It's a twitter phenomenon where powerless people form a mob to yield power over those they see as oppressors. In many cases its justified in calling attention to someone or something. But not sure how it would apply to a movie that was released around the time Clinton won a second term

R28 R32 ALBERT is the effeminate character played by Nathan Lane.

I think Robin Williams' character in The Birdcage would have been more convincing if he was written as bi instead of gay.

The disabled pet gay butler/housekeeper could easily be construed as offensive, even though he was included for comic relief. It's a demeaning portrayal of a gay person, if I've ever seen one.

So there are people in the world like Albert?

^ Gurl, please.

I hated The Birdcage when it came out in 1996. It was horribly offensive. It should be canceled.

I also saw the Broadway musical, La Cage aux Folles, from which The Birdcage movie was adapted, and it was not offensive. The movie was intentionally created to appeal to a bigoted heterosexual audience. The gay audience was not its audience or taken into consideration regarding such an offensive movie designed to appeal to the ignorant masses. Cancel it.

I don't know, Randy Rainbow seems kinda butch.

Oh honey, never go to the theatre in Paris.

[quote] It's similar to negro chitlin theatre

And look where that ended up.

In the garbage bin of history, where it belongs.

So you can draw your own conclusion about this movie.

Tyler Perry comes out of chitlin theatre, you boob. Is his oeuvre in the trash bin?

Woke people trying to cancel everything, have no grey areas. And no funny bones. There's no need to cancel creative productions of yesteryear.

Every gay man I know loves it. The few who don't seem to have not been able to accept themselves, or that all gay men are not the same. Like everyone else, we are diverse.

[quote] Tyler Perry comes out of chitlin theatre, you boob.

What a horrible fucking example.

A gay guy who pretends to be a straight guy, while dressing as an old lady in drag. All for laughs!

He should be cancelled for THAT ALONE!

R39, it’s curious that you are ok with the La Cage musical. Arthur Laurents cast and directed the shoe with an explicitly state objective of making the straight audience feel comfortable. In contrast, the Birdcage embraces gayness and made a big gay star out of Nathan Lane. Funny how you interpret them exactly backwards.

CANCEL TYLER PERRY!!!

What kind of nasty teenage girl keeps asking us here to cancel things? grow up.

and CANCEL TYLER POSEY for having the hutzpah to be a tranny chaser!

[quote] I also saw the Broadway musical, La Cage aux Folles, from which The Birdcage movie was adapted

For this mistaken statement alone, YOU should be cancelled.

[quote] Hank Azaria giving an almost "black face" representation of a "Guatemalan" person. Looking back, it should have been viewed as more offensive, than comedy.

The most offensive thing about Azaria in this is his flat ass. So disappointing.

Some dumb troll has latched onto it, and it works! Its sub 90 IQ trolling, 101.

Lane says he was recently pitched a Birdcage sequel (yes, sans Robin Williams) and he thought it was "smart, clever, funny."

The plot would involve his character and Hank Azaria's character traveling to Guatemala. So he called Azaria.

“I can’t possibly play the part again," Azaria told him. "People would go crazy. I have one word for you: Apu.’”

Hand Azaria is hilarious and hot as hell.

Can we keep Sabu?

Thank you, Hank Azaria (at R54)!!!

He's the only one that gets it.

I can't believe that Nathan Lane is THAT dumb, to even consider a sequel... IN GUATEMALA!!!

I don't even want to imagine the gross stereotypes that would come out of that mess.

Mike Nichols was a genius and had great taste. He did a fantastic job that could have easily gone wrong in so many ways. The film is so tight it should taught in film school.

It's a joyous, celebratory film.

White gays are expected to just take the "offenses" of Modern Family, The Birdcage, etc. They are not allowed to complain, because they have white privilege

What is offensive about Nathan's character? That he's a nelly female impersonator in the old school?

Gene Hackman was terrific in this! I wish he’d made another comedy.

How come these STUPID cancel twats didn't attend the THIRD lesson of critical studies where the professor tells them how NOT to cancel Mammy rather read her as a transgressive agent of resistance to white hegemony? For chrissakes, it's totally dishonest these cancel dopes.

There is NO need to cancel old artistic productions. Read them anyway you want but no need to hide them.

[quote]White gays are expected to just take the "offenses" of Modern Family, The Birdcage, etc. They are not allowed to complain, because they have white privilege

As a white gay, I can tell you I'm not in the least offended by Modern Family or The Birdcage.

Imagine Harrison Ford as Alfred and Williams in Lane’s role.

The original toast buttering scene from La Cage Aux Folles with "Albin" Michcel Serrault and "Renato" Ugo Tognazzi. Nathan Lane and Robin Williams did a remarkable job hitting the same notes and bringing the scene to life in the American remake. And the French version still kills.

It hasn’t been canceled because it’s a sweet story about accepting yourself (in the end) even when society won’t because you’re gay and flamboyant. What’s not to love about that message?

The political plot line is a bit dated but it’s comic genius. The abortion joke is so crazy that I can’t help but laugh when Albert (dressed as a woman) says “I say kill the mothers. If they’re going to kill the baby anyway why not let it go down with the ship?” The outrageous absurdity of anti-abortionists was captured so perfectly in that weird, exaggerated statement. And it was damn funny. This movie still makes me laugh!

That abortion joke might be one of the biggest laughs I've ever had at a movie. It's not just that it's a great line (Elaine May's screenplay has a ton of those), Lane's delivery is just perfect. The performance is more than just the flamboyant "I pierced the toast!" moments, as funny as those are.

[quote] As a white gay, I can tell you I'm not in the least offended by Modern Family or The Birdcage.

At least [italic]The Birdcage[/italic] ripped off French farce instead of Gary Coleman and Emmanuel Lewis. And at least [italic]The Birdcage[/italic] didn't cross the line into pushing that tr-ns kid garbage. Now I know why Amanda Bearse didn't want Ed O'Neill at her wedding to another woman while they both wore tuxedos.

[quote]Williams and especially Lane are VERY good in this movie, OP.

I've always felt this is Lane's worst performance to date, and the movie is one of Mike Nichols' very few misfires. Lane is so completely unbelievable when he pretends to be the mother that it's impossible to suspend disbelief, whereas Michel Serrault in the original French film was perfection in that way (and in every other way).

r65, see r28. WHO THE HELL IS ALFRED?

I can see some elements being problematic, but I do think this movie was more positive than negative and it was helpful to a lot of gay kids to show to their parents to soften the blow of coming out.

I can't believe that some of you are defending this SHIT movie.

It is so full of offensive stereotypes.

I can't even sit through an hour of this movie, without being thoroughly disgusted.

Get the stick out of your ass R73. No doubt you find everything offensive.

It’s a complete delight.

In Mark Harris’ new book about Mike Nichols, Nathan Lane talks about being uncomfortable about having to say “fag.”

[quote] But there were a few moments when a generation gap between Nichols and May and the younger actors became apparent. “The script used the word ‘fag’ a lot. ‘Well, Alexander the Great was a fag,’ like that,” says Lane. “The day we had to shoot it, I said, ‘I’m a little uncomfortable saying fag.’ We had this long discussion about why he wanted to use the word, and ultimately I said, ‘Yeah, but as the only fag in the room, let me tell you. It’s making me uncomfortable. Can we try other things?’ He said, ‘Absolutely.’ He still used it in the movie, though. It was interesting. The word was not as offensive to them because it had been a punch line for years. They were two of the smartest, most sophisticated people in the world, but they couldn’t quite let go of it.”

[quote] Nathan Lane talks about being uncomfortable about having to say “fag.”

EXACTLY!!

None of you see a problem with this?

Nathan was also uncomfortable when talking to Oprah. It was a different world, not that long ago. Progress takes time. Newsflash, The Birdcage broke down barriers in public perceptions that made Will & Grace possible.

Wasn't the "flamboyant" Sean Hayes quiet about himself when he was playing the not exactly subtle character of Jack? Progress is slow and steady.

Cancel Sean Hayes! He had the nerve to play a GAY gay character!

Don't drag me into this! I can't help it if I'm pink.

It was a truly shitty movie.

I did enjoy Gene Hackman, Calista Flockhart, and Dianne Wiest, though.

You enjoyed the people playing conservatives. Huh.

act (v.) — behave so as to appear to be; pretend to be.

Who cares if Robin Williams was straight? Who cares if David Hyde Pierce is gay? Jesus, it’s acting.

[quote] You enjoyed the people playing conservatives. Huh.

You're not very smart, are you?

In case you didn't realize it, there's actually a difference between acting and real life.

Tell me more, Stanislavski.

I could've danced all night...

I could've danced all night...

And still have begged for more.

Gene Hackman in drag by itself makes it worth seeing the movie. But Robin Williams and Nathan Lane do a great job, as well as Dianne Wiest. It’s a whip smart script, although yes, it’s unbelievable that Nathan Lane would pass as a woman. But I think that was also the point and exaggerated for a reason—-conservatives have their heads up their asses and are naive and in denial about a lot of realities.

I love laughing at stereotypes, and I love this movie. Cancel culture cares more about reasons for being self-righteous than bothering with the brain power needed to understand context.

The MEDIOCRITY of the movie is what's most offensive ABOUT the movie.

In this Larry King interview, Hank Azaria talks about how he was terrified that his performance would be considered offensive or unfunny. He says in the years since, no one's made a negative comment to him about it, though "maybe they think it"

[quote] In this Larry King interview, Hank Azaria talks about how he was terrified that his performance would be considered offensive or unfunny

You see?

This is the SECOND comment by an actor in the movie, who thought that their performance would be offensive.

First Nathan Lane, then Hank Azaria.

That should tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about The Birdcage.

R92 Except Hank Azaria isn't gay so maybe he was taking a bigger risk?

If the film woke up some conservatives to the absurdity of extremism, then it did a good job of changing minds. The son wakes up to the unfairness to which he's treating his fathers, and the Dianne Wiest character gets to stand up for beliefs she's been suppressing. Even Hackman comes around a bit. I think it accomplished what it set out to do, and as a gay man, even I can understand the premise of having to pretend to be something else in order to avoid other issues.

How many of us from conservative families had to hide who we loved, and how many of us found out that they weren't as conservative in all areas as we thought they were? Everybody comes out a better person in this.

[quote] Except Hank Azaria isn't gay so maybe he was taking a bigger risk?

I don't think he was worried about offending gay people.

I think he was more worried about offending Hispanic people.

Yay R9, well said. I’m so sick of all this cancel bullshit. Get lives, people.

R33, that’s a great story. I’m glad he found comfort in the movie.

The movie paints a very positive view of gay men. Look at that amazing oceanfront building they own/rent? for the club. Huge, gorgeous, with a rooftop floor for living and a rooftop pool? That real estate alone would be worth a fortune. They are shown as VERY successful business owners, employing a dozen people at least, including their delightful "maid"! They sent their son to college and appear to live very well, surrounded by art and opulence. Can we say it's a big step forward over the men depicted in that charmer Cruising?

What you just described R98, was one of the biggest reasons I hated the movie.

"Armand" and "Albert" were two of the most prissy and pretentious queens you could possibly imagine.

Maybe it's because I can't stand queens like that in real life, which made me hate the movie.

R93- Frank Azaria is GAY.

they were prissy but I don't recall them being pretentious. They were decidedly middle brow in taste. In the French farce they are caricatures of petite bourgeoisie.

R99 what don't you like about prissy queens surrounded by ersatz luxury? They are harmless and funny. Do they cut too close to home? Your class origins?

R100 Who's Frank Azaria? I demand answers!

Hank's hotter brother. Hung like a mule.

And then there's Hank's raunchy, slutty brother who appeared in the film Cruising, Skank Azaria.

Chee werks har for the money, ee-ee, ee-ee! So har for it choney, ee-ee, ee-ee!

He was insanely hot in this. And funny.

R106- If you think Hank Azaria looks insanely hot in that movie you are INSANELY DESPERATE.

R107 Post a pic of yourself and let's compare.

I agree that Frank er Skank uh HANK, Hank Azaria had a moment where he was very sexy.

The original La Cage aux Folles is so beyond this cheap sitcom. The 3 lead performances are beyond praise. And the sequel is also wonderful.