The Tragic Life of Barbara Payton

Jayne Mansfield had the same kind of trajectory, at the same time, but was more successful at it. Babs kind of killed her career after she hooked up with Joan Crawford's ex Franchot Tone and manipulated her boyfriend Tom Neal into a fistfight with Tone that almost ended his life. Hollywood turned on her after that.

Madonna is headed the same way

Her biography was the best biography I have ever read. Page turner.

I agree. I read it again ("Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye") recently and really felt for her son. Another page turner is the Jayne Mansfield biography by one of her former friends. So many similarities between the two. Around the same time, Payton had her mansion on N. Beverly Drive and Mansfield had her "Pink Palace" on Sunset.

I agree Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye was so good. I get trying to find the places mentioned on Google earth. I’d love to do a sleazy Los Angeles/Hollywood tour one day.

Madonna is too old to have Barbara Peyton’s trajectory. Barbara Peyton was long dead before sixty whatever Madonna is.

HA! Those girls had nothing on me. And that includes Babs, Jayne AND Marilyn. Gone, gone, gone. But I'm still standing.

Plus Madonna is worth $850 Million Fucking Dollars. She won't be sucking off old men in Chevys anytime soon.

I also read Payton's autobio "I Am Not Ashamed." She sure wasn't.

Both her and Mansfield had the kind of appeal that is short lived. You can only do "hot chick" roles for so long

She was a drunken whore. Ruined her beauty with hard living, too many men, and booze.

Tom Neal was gorgeous, but he was an ultraviolent fuck-up--he could not stop getting into fights, and his beating Franchot Tone so severely he put him in the hospital also ended Neal's own movie career. He eventually was sentenced to prison for manslaughter for shooting his third wife, gale Bennett.

I always thought Russell Crowe was going to follow Neal's film trajectory: an extremely handsome, talented actor who was so insecure he had to get in fights because his self-esteem was so fragile. Crowe seemed to turn things around after being arrested for the phone-throwing in cident, and stopped fighting--although he completely lost his looks.

Neal managed to give one really superb performance: in the classic film noir Detour, with the unforgettable Ann Savage.

She seemed like a down to earth person. I appreciate how Frank she was about everything.

She loved her son and he adored her despite all her problems. Reminds me of Anna Nicole Smith.

She was too beautiful to play it safe.

How has her story never made into a movie?

Great podcast on Barbara linked below.

R12 I love Detour, but I've never looked up how Tom Neal age. Oh. My. God. What 20 years of hard living does to a person. He was only 57 or 58 in this picture.

To prepare for her role in the remake of “The Postman Always Rings Twice,” Nicholson recommended Payton’s biography to Lange, who read and kept it on hand during filming, ultimately basing her characterization on Payton.

Tom Neal was a hottie when young but, yes, he aged HORRIBLY

There's another one whose life was totally crazy. He did time for killing one of his wives

Here is a list of her dark experiences by her biographer, John O'Dowd. Addiction is a hell of a thing.

Such a sad story

R17 You Must Remember This is such a good podcast, but the host pronounces words so strangely.

[quote]She won't be sucking off old men in Chevys anytime soon.

And yet, R8, I have no problem picturing Sean Penn in a Tahoe, unzipped.

If Madonna sucks off old men in chevys it’s for the pure fun of it

R9, or as Barbara Stanwyck quipped, "Well, she damn well should have been!"

R11, a shocking response in the comments of that story from a man named Bill who claims to be the love child of Bob Hope and Payton (copied directly from the story, contains author's typos):

bill on November 10, 2016:

I am the illigitmate son of Bob Hope and Barbara Payton.12/17/45. She met him in Palm Springs looking for Louis as she Honeymooned in Hollywood. I found out through Santa monica church which they both attended Barbara refused an abortion as she was catholic .at that time St. Monica's had The Family Theatre; Father Patrick Payton ran it.. my uncle was Louis Shurr the agent, his brother adopted me. When I was 5 years old we moved into Bob Hopes' 10 room mansion on 262 Central park West. Barbara came up to the house when I was 11. Wearing a Mink coat and tissues in her hand. A week later Patrick Payton came over to my house to take me to the movies,The following week he Baptized me. I went to Catholic school that Jack Kennedy Bob Hope's best friend went too. I met Hope backstage at Loew's Capital in 1960;"Bachelor In Paridise". and the next day I was in the visitor field box at Yankee Stadium , meeting all the Yankees. Hope enterprises owned the box as well as the Clevland Indians. Hope hugged me and kissed me backstage.

[quote] Around the same time, Payton had her mansion on N. Beverly Drive

How did she afford a mansion? She wasn't a big star.

R28, it was a rental.

R19, Both Payton and Lange were born in Cloquet, Minnesota.

Neither Mansfield or Smith are comparable to Payton in their trajectory. Touring the regions via club dates and stock tours, or doing reality TV is not the same as being a five dollar hooker.

What did her son, John Lee Payton, look like in his early adulthood?

Both his dad, John Payton, and his mom, Barbs, were quite photogenic. I wonder if he inherited their better genes.

He looked like one of the Willis offspring.

She, Barbara Payton, is my mother!

One of her family members / friends apparently left this review on Amazon about a book that had a chapter about Barbara ("L.A. Despair: A Landscape of Crimes & Bad Times" by John Gilmore): "She was both wild and innocent and deserves to be portrayed with much more accuracy than what appears in this book. Gilmore fails to bring up up even one of Barbara's good qualities or talents (for instance, she was a gourmet cook, she rebuilt and refinished furniture, she was a genius in interior decorating and she was generous TO A FAULT)".

[quote]To prepare for her role in the remake of “The Postman Always Rings Twice,” Nicholson recommended Payton’s biography to Lange,

Interesting. Grasping at her last bit of celebrity, Payton and Tom Neal toured small town dinner theaters in a production of TPART. It was a disaster with Payton collapsing drunk on the stage at one point (twice). Neal carried her off and brought the curtain down.

The Vanity Fair profile on Barbara.

Tragic indeed....

So is the guy at R27 the half-brother of Rose Nylund?

LOL R39. I think Mysteries and Scandals did a segment on Barbara. John O'Dowd says someone's taken an option to do a movie but so far nothing. I can't imagine doing a whole movie on such a tragic case. Even though she started out with promise, she really fucked up her chances in Hollywood, first with the whole Neal/Tone fight, and then by selling her "romance" with Bob Hope to Confidential Magazine. From there, her rapid trip to the gutter was so sad and without much redemption on her part. She was given chances to turn it around but preferred her booze and heroin. So basically the story is such a downer that most people wouldn't want to produce it. BTW, Tom Neal was kind of hot, but he was a shrimp. 5'7" at most.

Tom Neal, surprisingly, had an affluent and well-educated life before he hit Hollywood.

Wow, dead at 39. She could have still been beautiful if she hadn't fucked up her life. Probably didn't have a chance though, with alcoholic parents and men abusing her since her early teens (and possibly before).

I'd love to see David Lynch take a shot at Payton's story. He could make it something more than just a sobfest.

"Neal and his sisters were raised in a spacious ten-room home in Chicago. He attended Lake Forest Academy and Evanston Township High School before enrolling at Northwestern University where he majored in mathematics"

wow. never would've guessed.

I think saying she preferred her booze and heroin is a tad too strong. It may have started out as fun or even an escape from unpleasant memories, but what it became was indicative of an addicted, disturbed mind.

Tom Neal, young and old. He died at age 59 in 1972 at age 58.

Tom and Barbara when times were "good."

[Quote] He died at age 59 in 1972 at age 58.

You only die twice.

She looked like a farm girl.

I don't think she's that good-looking, she looks solid and corn-fed to me, with obviously bleached hair, but some people find that appealing even if I don't.

But BTW, what the fuck is up with this picture? Is that a flaw in the photo, or did she go out with a spider drawn on her face?

She liked to wear face tattoos. I guess she was 50 years ahead of her time.

That was one of her more tame ones R50. I've been trying to find a pic and you did it! I guess you could say she had a pussy fetish. Cats and Tigers. Drew whiskers on and shit. It was a thing with her.

She was a pretty brunette with beautiful blue eyes. But she got noticed as a blonde.

Her son seems to have turned out well and it would have made her feel good to know that. Somehow I find that heartwarming.

R41 Neal was a descendant of John Neal, one of the founders of the Cheek-Neal Coffee Company, makers of Maxwell House coffee. He inherited money and pissed it away.

I knew his sister who did a better job of hanging on to her money but not her husbands.

^ Any interesting stories?

Talk about falling, coming from all that and then murdering your wife. Wow.

Amber Heard could play Barbara Payton. Who wants to write the screenplay with me? It will be Barfly crossed with Lady Sings the Blues.

MYSTERIES & SCANDALS

Wonder if that story that r27 posted is true. It’s sounds so strange, but has a realness to it.

The poster up thread who suggested David Lynch make a movie of her life is genius. But if it ever gets made it’ll be by Ryan Murphy.

Good lord, DL, this isn't the first time I've ordered a book from reading one of these threads. I ordered Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye by John O'Dowd today. I thought her own autobiography sounded sketchy, with a exploitative ghost writer and her problems with alcohol.

R61 Incidentally, in the late 70s/early 80s, Lynch was planning to do a biopic on Monroe and wanted Lange for the part.

I just bought the book too r62

Her "I Am Not Ashamed" book IS a little sketchy. She was paid by a kind of fly-by-night publisher who gave her booze money to do it and she was bombed through most of it. I think the "real" Barbara Payton WAS a little ashamed -- that she couldn't hold onto her beloved son being the major regret and her biggest heartbreak. They adored each other, although John Jr. talks about learning about sex from a very young age by watching what was going on in the Beverly Drive house.

WHO was the unnamed female movie star Payton fucked to get a role?

"She knew I wanted that part and she knew the price. I got the part and almost every lunch hour we made it in her dressing room. We were very discreet, and I doubt anyone had the slightest suspicion. They just thought we liked having lunch together. They should have known what we had for lunch!"

^ Ruth Roman might be a good choice. The movie, Dallas (1950).

DALLAS

Mansfield was reputedly very intelligent, so I imagine that helped her when her career began to falter. By the time she died she was doing dates in roadhouses all over America and traveling from job to job by car. It may not have been as glamorous as when she was making movies, but it kept the money coming in.

TRAPPED (1949)

Reminds me of Veronica Lake.

I didn't know she sampled the pussy!

In that Vanity Fair article they quote her as being part of the Ava Gardner-Lana Turner lesbo fest in Paul Springs in the 1950s...Sinatra caught Ava and Lana, but Barbara escaped through a window. I've never heard of her being involved in that incident before and not sure I believe it. The police were called when the fight escalated outdoors, Barbara Payton was hiding in the bushes?

R70 Every few years I go through a film noir phase for a month and catch up on noirs I haven't seen. I remember very excited to watch Trapped, but it ended up being really boring. Definitely a lesser noir, unfortunately.

You gotta love the LA Times Archive, here's a pic of Barbara all bruised up in an LA police station in 1962

A pic of her visiting Franchot Tone (one of the most ANNOYING movie star names ever, IMO) in the hospital.

[quote]Sinatra caught Ava and Lana, but Barbara escaped through a window.

I read the book and I think this was debunked. I heard it was Scotty Bowers who was with them too, lol.

Does anyone see a resemblance to Adele? A biopic could be Adele's "Lady Sings the Blues."

[quote]Mansfield was reputedly very intelligent, so I imagine that helped her when her career began to falter.

She was quoted (by herself?) as having a 163 IQ. Don't know about that. Definitely recommend the Jayne Mansfield bio linked at R4, a good bookend to the Payton Bio. I think it's only $4 or something. She was just as fucked up as Barbara at the end but still had some money. There's a scene in the book where she and her BF Sam Brody (he died in crash with her) are tripping on acid and Jayne is screaming "Lizards! Lizards!" while climbing up the bookcase in her office (linked). The author said Brody was crouched on the floor masturbating and flicking his tongue in and out.

How could she be just as fucked up as Barbara? Barbara was a street whore!

Jayne's place was really a homemade horror story. Although I do love the couches. But that bathroom!

She wasn't as fucked up YET R79. She still had some money. Barbara lived longer than Mansfield and lost her Bev Hills home, her dignity and self-respect. Who knows what would've happened to Jayne had she lived past '67.

[Quote] Barbara lived longer than Mansfield

Small victories, huh?

I didn't realize they both died in '67, only about 6 weeks apart. Did any of the blonde bombshells of the 50s make it to old age?

R83, Mamie Van Doren is still with us. I believe she just turned 90

Good for her! It's nice to know one of them managed to survive the 60s.

Sheree North made it onto the Golden Girls

[quote]Barbara lived longer than Mansfield

Right, sorry. They DID die around the same time.

Your point is still legit, R81. Payton was 40 when she died, Mansfield only 34. A 40-year-old Mansfield might have been a sorry sight, indeed.

Sheree North stands apart as she became a very good character actress. And though she was pushed into that Marilyn-clone mold, she was a superb dancer.

I thought Sheree was a knockout as Charlene, Lou Grant's nightclub singing girlfriend with a liberated past in "The Mary Tyler Moore Show." With longer, carefree '70s hair and natural look makeup, she looked so much more beautiful than her done up '50s glamour look. The producer's should've kept her on as a recurring character.

I can relate.

R17 excellent recommendations, I really enjoyed that podcast and have listened to a few other episodes that are also great. You’re so right R23 the podcaster extends her words in the strangest way, but it adds to the atmosphere of the show.

There wasn’t enough detail though so I’ll be ordering the book as well

If you like You Must Remember This, check out the Manson podcast series. It's a classic.

That podcast is really good r93

Another Podcast that is really good is Forgotten: Women of Juarez. I know the story is familiar to many, but Where the podcast takes you is truly terrifying. Hundreds of young women raped and murdered and nobody gave two shits.

She was obviously dickmatized by Franchot Tone's huge penis

You can't tell it from his pictures but Tone's huge dickmeat turned women like Peyton's into crazed nymphomaniacs...

And a gal's like Barbara's gotta have it...

"You can't tell it from his pictures but Tone's huge dickmeat turned women like Peyton's into crazed nymphomaniacs..."

More like his huge paycheck. You think women would care about his dick if he was a janitor making minimum wage?

Franchot Tone must have had something going on below the belt: Joan Crawford married him, and she was a noted connoisseur of dick.

Very few straight women marry guys solely because of dick size. Geez, do you people know any women? Women were interested in Tone because he was rich, famous, and good-looking.

R97 Good looking might be a stretch.

So happy that a few of you purchased the biography!

I have not read too many books that I could not stop reading.

They are usually pretty trashy. This biography, Gone Girl, and Olive Kitteridge (not trashy)..

This woman had such a tragic life- its really quite a story and this biography was absolutely excellent.

I had never even heard of this woman/actress until a thread on this site, and I still haven't seen any of her films, much less a clip on Youtube.

Says a lot about a biography to be that involving..

Agree r100 it was amazing.

Did the ghost writer write a lot of other books?

[quote]Very few straight women marry guys solely because of dick size.

Not SOLELY, but Crawford was a noted nympho from the time she was a teenager (fucking your stepfather at age 11 will do that). She married Doug Fairbanks Jr. partly for career advancement, partly because the sex was hot. At one Pickfair party hosted by Doug's father and stepmother Mary Pickford, Joan and Doug Jr. got so hot and heavy when the lights went out during a private film screening that Mary banned them from the house. If Franchot wasn't more-than-decent in the sack, Joan wouldn't have married him.

Abusing your 11-year-old stepdaughter is "fucking"....okay.

What's odd is that Joan didn't consider it abuse. She thought of it as an affair. But the abuse does help explain a lot about the demons that drove her to be a star and a notoriously bad parent.

Anyway, back on topic, does anyone who read the bio know what happened to Barbara to make her the way she was?

Boys and liquor.

Both of Payton's parents were heavy drinkers.

Once one sees sex as transactional, love is off the table.

Wonder who this could have been?

"In I Am Not Ashamed, Payton recounts numerous casting-couch abuses and weaves fantastical tales in which she one-ups her abusers and blackmails a studio boss. She also admits to trading sexual favors to get auditions or parts, including her seduction of an unnamed female movie star:

She knew I wanted that part and she knew the price. I got the part and almost every lunch hour we made it in her dressing room. We were very discreet, and I doubt anyone had the slightest suspicion. They just thought we liked having lunch together. They should have known what we had for lunch!"

Like another beauty from nearly the cradle (Marilyn Monroe), Barbara Payton likely was abused as a young girl, and or realized that beauty can motivate people to do things....

On anther note both her parents were hard drinking alcoholics from before she was born. You cannot raise a child in that environment without causing some sort of harm mentally or emotionally. If Barbara Payton's mother drank that heavily whist pregnant there may be an angle poor kid came into this world hard wired for booze.

She could have turned to food.

Surprised no one has mentioned Franchot (allegedly) liking to be shat upon. I think it was mentioned in either "I Am Not Ashamed" or "Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye." Also, according to the book, Barbara was molested as a child by a relative (not her father). The author goes into theories of Barbara wanting to take the power back, etc. He claims that is why she preferred performing fellatio because in that scenario she was in control.

That was Danny Thomas.

And Tyrone Power.

I'll never understand that particular fetish.

Barbara Payton got Guy Madison into bed. Damn her!

If she were alive today she'd likely verbally abuse and cough on an Uber driver.

R109 Payton's credits were skimpy. The only one that makes sense is Ruth Roman, billed above Payton in "Dallas."

One of the nicer video tributes to Barbara Payton. There are quite a few on YouTube.

[quote]Joan Crawford married him, and she was a noted connoisseur of dick.

Except Clark, who had a clit.

I just finished the book about Payton, "Kiss Tomorrow Goodbye." Damn it was depressing. The woman was her own worst enemy. Probably sexually abused starting in childhood. A terribly sad but fascinating read.

I listened to the audiobook of her autobiography and registered to the you must remember this podcast about her. She was a pistol, dang that was a life!

R122 here, should be Re-listened not registered!

Bette Davis having an affair with Tone was the Beginning of the FEUD .Lucille was NOT AMUSED .

Just saw Dancing Lady (1933) on TCM. Featured Joan Crawford, Clark Gable, and Franchot Tone about 20 years before he married Payton, who was about 5 years old in 1933.. Also had Fred Astaire in his first movie role.

Crawford's eyes were mesmerizing and she danced quite a bit in the film. It's worth a watch.

R97, Knew there was a reason I liked Joan!

I just watched Detour (1945) and reading about Tom Neal led me to this thread.

Fascinating stuff

Nymphomania!

Is it true John Lennon was so unimpressed by Jayne Mansfield (or she insulted him in some way) that he peed in her drink and she unknowingly drank it?

John Lennon was a prick.