Easter at the Snyder farm

Thank you, OP (ORD?). That character was waaay before my time (1988).

R1 Agreed, he was from the 70s.

Clever idea that one of our posters suggested in a list, but in the end ended up being too obscure.

Thanks R1!

I watched a movie called "The Group" last weekend. Kathleen Widdoes played one of eight new graduates of a Vassar-like college. The film followed their lives from 1933 to 1940. Her co-stars included Candice Bergen, Joan Hackett, Shirley Knight, Jessica Walter, Carrie Nye, Larry Hagman, Hal Holbrook and Richard Mulligan.

It was apparently quite controversial for the time (it was made in 1966). Quite dated now but it was worth it just to see a young Kathleen.

Nice pic of Rose Perrini in the OP.

Boy Jon Hensley really did not age well. Shame.

Lisa McColl plugged up Emma’s farm toilet.

I mean, Jon didn't look so bad at the end overall.....but his wig was another matter.

Hard to compete with his stunning appearance in the 80s.....as if someone put all the Falcon porn stars in a blender and the result was HIM.

R3 Have been meaning to see that for eons. I think I've seen the end scene with Candice and Larry H about a dozen times and think, "Oh, I really want to see the whole thing!"

Soap opera ad or Falcon Video box cover art? You decide.

r9 THAT was the image I was looking for when I posted R7!

You are truly doing the Lord's work, R9.

(and I vote option B, Falcon cover art)

Jon’s straight. Go away, homos. You will never have him!

I still remember the scene where Jon was coming out of the water towards Lilly in his tightie whities. Pretty hot for daytime TV back then.

Jon Hensley & Grant Show (Ryan's Hope) were roommates when they were both on their respective soaps

My friends from the wardrobe department worked at P&G shows much later.

but oh, to be a costumer for ATWT circa 1986 and assemble outfits for Jon, Brian Bloom and Bill Shanks......

Enough with Holden, already.

From another DL thread today, Herb Ritts' photo [italic]Fred with Tires[/italic] . Which character's first day in Oakdale was cribbed from this pic?

R15 Was that Barry Kaufman's first day?

R16 Nope. He was the best looking guy they ever had, though.

One of the Mikes, I assume.

How did they dress Lisa, who always either shit her pants or plugged up the toilet?

[quote] Enough with Holden, already.

I can NEVER get enough of Holden!

Remember when Van said that he’s straight???? lololololololol Everyone fucking knew that Van is a homo but he denied it. That god damned idiot Roger Newcomb ran the Hansis get togethers, which I attended, but the caveat was that you couldn’t ask Van about his sexuality. What a shit show. Everyone knew Van was gay but Queen Newcomb threatened to make you leave the gathering if you asked Van about his sexuality. Truth.

Thank you, OP. This is much better. Who will hide the eggs?

I don't know who's hiding the eggs, but I can tell you who's smelling the cookies!

And this show became first soap opera to drop the word "Fag"

Yes, because it depicted someone being awful to a gay person. Unlike many shows that used it for a laugh.

That photo at R7 reminded me of a porn star and I finally figured out who - Lex Baldwin.

Thanks OP. Sorry that Bennett proved to obscure.

Brian Starcher really dropped off the map after he left ATWT.

I swear I saw Brian Starcher working on a crew moving someone to a new house in LA back around 1998.

I don't think he will ever know how much he meant to a couple thousand gaylings.

I’m not a fan of gay soap viewers. You don’t matter! Fags.

R18 wins. They used "Fred with Tires" as the model for Mike Kasnoff's first scene, working in the garage, fixing a car with no shirt on. This isn't that picture, obviously. I couldn't find one from that scene.

Go away Serial Asshole Nutjob!

I had no idea Cicely Tyson was on GL and she actually spoke about it on Kelly and Ryan the day before she died. Did any of you (and I say this respectfully) eldergays remember this?

R33 I never saw it, but I know that she and James Earl Jones were mentioned as being on the show in the 60s. I also wonder if anyone ever actually saw it.

Ruby Dee and Billy Dee Williams were also on GL. If I am not mistaken Ruby and Cicely played the same role.

*if anyone HERE saw it

R34 As did Cicely and Ruby Dee. Someone here has to have watched them. There is only a clip of Billy Dee on the internet. All actors were on the show for a year. Billy and Cicely first followed by James and Ruby.

Locher Room has announced their shows for March which include -

A Michael Zaslow tribute

An Agnes Nixon tribute

and

A show with Tammy Blanchard and Patti D'Arbanville

Yes, Hensley's fake hair is very unfortunate.

What’s scoop on Jon and Kelley’s split? Who is he with now? How much was his AtWT salary?

Someone posted here a while back that Jon spent their money on gambling. I had no idea. Based on Kelley's FB she's with someone else now.

Their son looks a lot like a 2020 version of Jon.

Jon was fucking around on Kelly.

I really liked Selena and Drew. One of the few bright spots in Santosmania.

God, I miss stuff like this.

Jon Hensley was an Adonis when he started on ATWT.

Douggie Marland got hard when he wrote scenes that had Holden in his undies.

I thought Marland was straight. Didn't he leave GL because they fired his girlfriend Jane Elliot who was playing Carrie Marler?

R44 Well, both the writer and executive producer were gay, so they had excellent taste. Brian Bloom and Bill Shanks were in my spank bank for sure.

Michael Swan was, too (though sadly his MAGAness has diminished that particular light).

If Dusty and Casey were the guys I wanted to meet at last call, then Tom (Gregg Marx) and Craig (Scott Bryce) were the boyfriend material types. (Though Craig would totally get kinky in bed, you could just tell.)

How much money did Jon lose? How much did the ATWT stars make?

R3, I love THE GROUP. I remember seeing it for the first time on late night TV back in the late 80s. I was excited to see Kathleen Widdoes. I was a teenager at the time, and other than Candice Bergen and Jessica Walter, I didn’t really know who any of the other actresses were. Of course now I know all about Joan Hackett and Shirley Knight!

When I was a teen and watching the Marland era ATWT, my main crushes were Gregg Marx, John Wesley Shipp, and my main crush, Steve Bassett (Seth). It was no coincidence that my first boyfriend was tall with dark hair and eyes.

[quote]When I was a teen and watching the Marland era ATWT, my main crushes were Gregg Marx, John Wesley Shipp, and my main crush, Steve Bassett (Seth).

Well, your gaydar was working even as a kid since two of the three are gay.

I remember Steve Bassett being in some C level movie which had him in a swimsuit and he had some serious dong..

Mike Kasnoff as played by Shawn Christian was pretty fuck hot too. For a NYC soap, ATWT brought the man candy.

My love for Julianne Moore started with ATWT, perhaps because Frankie pulled some hot dick...Douglas, Seth, Casey. But not whoever that was that Steven Weber played. Did his character just vanish or was he killed off? Funny that Weber had the best post soaps career of ATWT male actors. I’ve liked him in many things, but he was blah as a soap actor.

Frannie, R54. And Sabrina too.

Typo, r55. My apologies. Meet me at Snyder Pond and I’ll make it up to you.

One of the things that first endeared me to Julianne Moore when she was on ATWT: Soap Opera Digest did this thing where they asked all these soap stars which roles they would want to play on other soaps. All of them said these really popular, leading characters, but Julianne said she’d want to play Coral, Erica’s maid on AMC! Coral was indeed funny, but she was hardly ever on.

How much money did the ATWT stars take home?

Julianne Moore was a huge GL fan. She was supposedly up for a role on the show but was a better fit for ATWT. Does anybody know what role this was?

[quote] I remember Steve Bassett being in some C level movie which had him in a swimsuit and he had some serious dong.

Spring Break. I remember watching it on HBO and thinking, holy heck, Seth Snyder just said "Fuck, yeah!"

[quote] But not whoever that was that Steven Weber played. Did his character just vanish or was he killed off?

Kevin. Kevin was not written to Weber's strengths and once JWS came on as Douglas, forget about it. Kevin died saving Frannie and Kim from Douglas at Dream's End.

How much did Geri Court make for allowing Connie to touch her nubile titties?

Wasn't dear Geri engaged to Joel Crothers? He got so much pussy in his day, it's hard to keep track.

Joel totally ate out Velekka.

Juilanne Moore, seriously, started on ATWT in April 1985, so if she was up for a role on GL,it would have been one cast about the same time or shortly before that.

The role that comes to mind for me is Suzette Saxon, the role music producer role that Frances Fisher played. That's just a guess, and likely the fact both have red hair is factoring in there.

What other female characters joined GL in late 84 or early 85?

^Maybe Jesse Matthews, Chelsea Reardon, or Roxie Shayne. Or that nurse Charlotte Wheaton who was involved with Ed. She was too young to be Suzette Saxton.

How much money did Maura West make per episode and per year?

Jessie seems most likely to me based on the timeline.

Physically Julianne would have made more sense as Chelsea but she was already at ATWT

The Jesse Matthews character didn't start until Oct. 1985, so she's six months too late to have been a role Julianne Moore auditioned for. Seriously.

It could have been a role that they ultimately ditched.

How much money did Ellen Dolan get paid per episode of ATWT and per year?

It could have been Roxie. We don’t know how long they searched for a certain role. Also, it may have been a character they went in another direction with altogether. JM would have been phenomenal on GL as Roxie.

r77 In one of the Locher Room GL profiles, someone explained that in summer 1984, they were casting the role of India Raines, Beth's cousin. Mary Kay Adams and Kristi Ferrell were the finalists. When the show couldn't make up thier minds between the two, they decided to hire both of them and created India von Halkien and Roxie Shayne for them.

Then a year later, they resurrected the idea of Beth's cousin, naming her Jesse Matthews.

So, I don't think Julianne Moore fits into that scenario. Seriously.

Maybe JM was seen for Beth or Mindy?

I know she was briefly on EON so she would have been in the P&G pipeline.

JM was just so New England-ish and Roxie was from Oklahoma, so I respectfully disagree she would have made a good Roxie. Julianne's stillness would have been overshadowed by her onscreen sister, serving HAM!

In the Locher Room last week, Alan had Rachel Minor, Brian Buffington and Gregory Burke -- child Michelle Bauer, Bill Lewis and Ben Reader on GL.

Very fun episode. Definitely worth watching.

R73 Beth and Mindy were always going to be your typical pretty white bread all American girls. Blond/Blue eyed.

I still want to see that one R74.

Julianne Moore IS Darcy Dekker.

To whomever mentioned E Katherine Karr last week on the prior thread, she's briefly mentioned in the new Mike Nichols bio.

R77 YES. LOL

She actually would've been a perfect Christina (pre-Blake) SORAS recast. The young actress who played her in the late 70s had red hair, and she would've aged at the same rate as Philip and Rick.

R80 Ohhh yes yes yes. She would have been perfect.

Saw The Locher Room with Bryan, Rachel and Greg Burke. Greg is a gay.

WHET to the Frannie before JM, seriously. Terri Vanderbosh or something? I barely watched ATWT then, and only knew about her from Soap Opera Digest photos of her and gay Christian leBlanc.

Vandenbosch died several years ago. She had the bad kidneys.

OMG, is that Kathleen Widdoes? I had no idea she got so fat.

How much money did Kathryn Hays make per episode and per year when she was on ATWT?

Widdoes is a rotund woman.

I think Widdoes had some illness where she was taking a lot of steroids and she put on that weight toward the end.

Hope she's doing OK now.

Imagine how bad her snatch reeks!

Julianne Moore was NEVER considered for Guiding Light

As The World Turns casting director Vince Liebhart was the one that brought Julianne Moore on ATWT. The first role Julianne auditioned for was Sierra, but they didn't think she was right for that. But Liebhart was so impressed with Julianne, he kept her in mind for any other contract part that was coming up. When the call came to re-introduce Frannie on the canvas, Liebhart knew she would be right for it. He called her in, she auditioned and got the part,

R43 I’m moist.

So if Gregory Burke is gay

That would mean both actors who played Ben Reade were gay - Greg Burke and Matt Bomer

[quote] Spring Break. I remember watching it on HBO and thinking, holy heck, Seth Snyder just said "Fuck, yeah!"

I really need to watch that again.

I mean, we all wanted Holden to be a dirty boy with us. But Seth was hot in his own way, and could both discuss a book with you and then raw dog you dirty before the sun came up! LOL

Gregory Burke is pretty handsome. He pushes my Black Irish buttons, I admit it.

Ooooh, Hot, r93.

Poor Patsy Bruder! They unnecessarily aged Ellen, first by marrying her off to a man who looked old enough to be her grandfather, and then rapidly aging her kids. If you started watching the show in the '80s, you'd think she was Nancy's contemporary, rather than a peer of Bob, Kim, Lisa, John, and Penny.

To give Patsy Bruder something to do, they should have made her character Lucinda's secretary. Then they could justify paying her salary and make the character the Lucinda confidante

Ellen was the one ATWT character who I just hated, hated, hated from day one of watching the show (which for me was in the Marland years).

I'd draw the parallel of AW where Lemay was struggling with Virginia Dwyer and Jacquie Courtney doing the "old" style when he was writing a newer one. Same at ATWT with some of the older performers. With Helen Wagner she was realistic enough she could continue in her own style. But Patsy just rang out as very Playing To The Balcony, Hand on the Forehead, Perils of Pauline to me every time I saw her.

That Little Orphan Annie hair at age 50whatever did her no favors.

The episodes when David Stewart died.....she was on all week and the weaknesses showed.

Interesting

Scott DeFreitas was so homely. Now there's a face meant for radio. They should of recasted him with a hot actor. Someone with a hot face and abs like Cameron Mathison or Jim Wlcek would've done wonders for the character, even though Wlcek played the poorly written Linc Lafferty.

[quote] They should of

[quote] recasted

Maybe sit this one out, toots.

Agreed. Defreitas is indeed homely!

[quote] Then they could justify paying her salary and make the character the Lucinda confidante

Hubbard would have made Pat Bruder cry after 5 minutes. LOL

[quote] Scott DeFreitas was so homely. Now there's a face meant for radio. They should of recasted him with a hot actor.

Anytime there were "hints" the soap mags about a possible recasting, viewers and fans were up in arms. When they brought him back in 1997 DeFreitas really bulked up and they had him do many shirtless scenes. He had a great body at that time

But whatever reason when Chris Goutman came on, he began to ease the character out and he was gone by 2002

spicen = Chris Goutman?

Serial Scholar = Mental Mess! His family had him committed because of his psychosis.

One of the many things GL messed up in its later years was not keeping the core kid group of Bill/Michelle/Ben on the front burner together as adults. I remember one scene of the three of them on a beach somewhere around 2002 when Millee Taggart was writing the show - she was trying to see those characters up for a central place on the canvas. There was so much history anytime those three were together. Then Ben turned into a serial killer and a million other shitty things happened.

R108 I remember that.

I also remember a time when they seemed to be backing away from Manny and it looked for a hot second like they were going to pair Cassie and Danny - which IMHO was far more interesting than Danny and Michelle ever was, and would make Cassie tolerable to me, which she only really was when she fought w/Dinah or was with Edmund.

R109, I remember that Danny/Cassie moment. I'm not a Laura Wright fan but she worked well with PAS (they were really popular together on Loving).

The Danny/Michelle fans were even more unhinged than the fans who live through these super couples, if that's possible.

Millie was the last vestiges of any sort of really strong tapestry of story at GL.

The only other person who brought that between then and the end was Jill Lorie Hurst, and by the time they let her write the show, it was too little too late.

R96, I saw him on Broadway in Deathtrap.

Am I dreaming this, or did we not have a Steve Bassett thread years back where either somebody claimed to have had him, or that he was in some play nude and was quite.....visible? Foggy on the details.

Who of you remembers Greg Watkins as "Evan," Connor's scheming younger brother?

Steve Bassett had classic BDF.

Why didn't Miss Marland bring his pal Geri Court to Oakdale? She would've worked well with Bryggman.

Miss Marland did have Geri Court on for just a few episodes in 1989. Just 2 or 3 episodes and she was quickly killed off. Probably just brought her on for health insurance reasons. Geri was then hot and heavy with her girlfriend Val.

I remember Greg. Cute but not really too interesting of an actor.

I mean, he was no Danny Markel!

No one was Danny Markel. Except Danny Markel. They should never have let him go on AW.

As long as I have a face, Mr. Markel will always have a place to sit.

I know this is probably blasphemy but I actually preferred the "Reva-Less" GL. That period when Nancy Curlee, Jim Reilly and Stephen Demorest were writing the show was so freaking good. Reva worked as white trash fixed up troublemaker when they were doing a Dallas rip off, but after that the character became tedious.

R122 Oh no, a lot of people felt that way.

That first year and a half after Pam left was glorious. Even the first bit after some of the cast changes was great. It was once all three of the above left, and then they were cycling through other writers plus JFP, that things fell apart.

GL had so many great female characters (and the women who played them) in the times right after Reva drove off that bridge: Vanessa, Holly, Alexandra, Maureen, Mindy, Blake, Bridget, Gilly, Harley, Nadine. I miss them all.

Fuck, I wish someone had put me on a fucking one-way trip to Springfield. Hasn't been any ripe cunt in this fucking town since Cecile fucking up and left.

If they wanted to give Ellen a story after David died, they should have revealed that Dan Stewart had impregnated a woman who gave birth to his son when he was in England in the early 70s with Emily and Betsy (when he took off to get away from Susan and came back as John Reilly).

It would have given Ellen, Susan, Kim and Emily something to do. And it would have beefed up the Stewart family.

Ellen's main problem was when they SORASed her in the 60s. Ellen and Penny were BFFs and then overnight, Ellen was Nancy's age. Then that bun and the church lady attitude didn't help matters.

Danny and Michelle were great with the Joie Lenz Michelle. The second Michelle was recast, it should have been over.

I forgot that Lydia Bruce had subbed for Bev. Starting at 2:25. I LOVED Lydia on The Doctors, but Alex was not the role for her. Bonus clip of the dongful one shirtless and lifting weights.

I wanted James Wlcek in me as deeply as humanly, or even inhumanly, possible. What a hunk and a half! And he wasn't some asexual dead-behind-the-eyes underwear model with painted-on abs. He looked like a real person and had a real sexual energy, which made his appeal even stronger. Hottest guy evah!

He was fine as fuck, r130.

GL from early 1991 when Pam Long left to early 1993 when they brought in Justin Deas to eat the show was one of the finest periods EVER on a soap.

GL was must-see-TV in that period. Everything was coming together well. Great storytelling.

The other fantastic period of the final 20 years was in 2002 when Millie Taggert was HW. She was pulling everything together nicely, correcting the many wrongs of the recent past (i.e., the introduction of the Santos clan and San Cristobullshit). If Mille had stayed around, she could have gotten the show on even stronger footing and likely gotten it back to another golden period. Unfortunately, she only had a year contract as HW and did not renew it when Jon Conboy came in as EP in 2003. .

R132 I didn’t watch it at the time but I watched some 1992 GL years later on YouTube and thought it was fabulous. Very addictive with a great cast of characters. I especially loved the chemistry with Ross and the Sherry Stringfield Blake. So unexpected, but fire together 🔥 🔥 🔥

I did watch 2002 GL at the time and it was great. But they wrecked it after that. As stupid as the last 10 years of ATWT were, I could still watch it. I never could watch post-Millee GL.

There were parts of the last year I liked, but by then the show was in hospice care.

Still, I'll take the overall way GL ended over the overall way ATWT ended (or for that matter, the way AW ended).

R132 Liz, you're absolutely right.

I even liked the pulling the plug story, even though it had been done before with Margo and Casey on ATWT (and the Rick Bauer transplant part on GH).

If we'd only know that losing Richard meant that we'd eventually get (((shudders))) Jeffrey O'Neill.

You've got to give Larry Bryggman credit. For someone who continuously trashed the soap genre, much of it justified, and probably ticked off a bunch of P&G suits, and not to mention was not conventionally attractive, he managed to carve out a 30+ year tenure on the show, most of the time on the front burner.

[quote] he managed to carve out a 30+ year tenure on the show, most of the time on the front burner.

But he was a professional - he showed up on time, knew his lines, hit his mark and then went off to do stage work in the P.M.

If he threw Diva tantrums like George Reinholt, Bryggman would have been shown the door.

Sorry all, I've just watched the clip at R129 and am going to lay down in a dark room to think about Grant's biceps and pits.

Grant's face leaves a little bit to be desired at certain angles, but there is no mistaking that he was perfectly cast in that role. Maybe the body was a little too buff for the 80s preppy he was playing, but it was perfect for a young soap leading man.

I always felt sorry for Frank Runyeon (Steve Andropolous) on ATWT. The show was built around Steve and Betsy (Meg Ryan) for two years. Their wedding was the highest-rated moment on ATWT ever. Then Ryan left, and Lindsay Frost replaced her. Frost had more talent, but zero chemistry with Runyeon. Then Douglas Marland took over as head writer. He had a whole different vision that did not include one single supercouple. To make matters worse, Marland put the spotlight on Craig Montgomery (Scott Bryce), who was once the villain to Steve's hero. By the time Runyeon left, the character just skulked out of town.

"He had a whole different vision that did not include one single supercouple."

Um, hello.

Gl was great from 89-93. I think she wrote the best “back from the dead” story ever with Beth. She also wrote Roger’s “back from the dead” story and it was done superbly. GL was must see from 89-93. It was a show ascending fast starting in 88.

[quote]If we'd only know that losing Richard meant that we'd eventually get (((shudders))) Jeffrey O'Neill.

It's been reported that Bradley Cole was one of the finalists for the role of Nick Marone on B&B, the role Jack Wagner played.

Apparently Jon Conboy got wind of this and made a quick deal with Cole to return to GL as Jeffrey O'Neil.

Bradley Cole apparently had a small, but vocal fan base that wanted him back and Conboy acquiesced to it before losing his chance, thus inflicting us with Jeffrey O'Neil for the final six years of the show.

R140 I wonder why Marland didn't like him? Did he have gross feet?

R144 Frank Bunyeon prolly didn’t want to suck Doug’s toes, unlike JWS who was all too happy to do it.

Was Jeanne Cooper for real when she said that she was in talks with Marland to join ATWT, but then he dropped dead? Nothing about that made any sense to me.

How much money did Liz Hubbard make per episode on ATWT? Per year on ATWT?

Why is Carl at SON such a sad sack, negative, eeyore loser? How does Vee, who is in the biz, also have time to work in the Biden administration and be key to getting the American Rescue Act passed?

Has the queen idiot who still uses “The” with “Guiding Light” 50 years later stopped crying at SON ?

Kathleen Widdoes was a very well respected theater actress. Why would she go slumming on stupid soap operas? I know ATWT and AW were two of the "better quality" ones, but at the end if the day, a soap is a soap. And I ask this as a fan who simply takes soaps for what they are.

Soaps paid the bills so actors could afford to do theatre.

SON is filled with losers. They cement it by talking about how they’ve gotten the vaccine. Someone like pervy Soapsuds got the vaccine because (he won’t admit it) he has 2 or more co morbidity issues. Fat, poor health etc. It sure as fuck isn’t because he’s a front line worker. He has health issues from being a fat slob. Yet he criticizes anyone who has gained 3 lbs. Fucken loser. And yes, Carl, dumb Dylan, Vee the expert on everything, the loser who still insists it was THE Guiding Light all bond together because they are all a MESS! The losers bond together. That board is filled with losers.

Rusty Shayne with the painted on jeans was the hottest guy on GL or ATWT. Terrell Anthony only has a few credits on IMDb so wonder what his career choice was post-Rusty.

Terrell and Cady McClain were an item in the early 90s. That was either before or after he subbed as Tad for a few weeks on AMC while MEK was out sick.

[quote] Was Jeanne Cooper for real when she said that she was in talks with Marland to join ATWT, but then he dropped dead? Nothing about that made any sense to me.

Supposedly it was serious to the point where she and her agents were talking to him. I wish we knew a bit about the story, but I believe Jeanne was playing the mother of a character Jane Elliot was going to play.

Which seems very intriguing, but also, ATWT had such a surplus already of women of a certain age, so I'm not sure where they would have fit in the story. When Marland died, Cooper stayed at Y&R and Elliot, who had left GH for that role, eventually made her way back to GH (with a side trip to The City).

Would Jeanne's old Hollywood style of acting had gelled with the more theater-trained/NYC actors on ATWT? I can't see her being a fit. I can't even envision her in the same acting universe as Bryggman or Widdoes. Would've been interesting to see Jane on ATWT.

[quote] I wonder why Marland didn't like him?

Marland wanted to make the show an "ensemble" not a star vehicle for Frank Runyeon. When ATWT was all about "Steve & Betsy" ratings were great, but not spectacular. They could never push ahead of ABC block of soaps and Y&R who held positions 1 to 4 in the ratings. Some weeks ATWT could be ranked number 5, if they were lucky

When Marland took over, ratings went up - the highest they got was number 3 - one week they went up to number 2.

I wonder how much longer Marland would have stayed with ATWT if he hadn't died. PG liked to do the writer shuffle every so often and I seem to recall something about OLTL really wanting him.

Frank Runyeon was also very challenging to work with, apparently, and in the midst of his time there he also caught a very intense case of the Jesus fever, so that may not have endeared him to his costars, who wanted to play their scenes and not talk about their savior.

R153 Terrell and his big feets were hot for sure, but he didn't seem to have a whole lot of oomph to him other than being exactly what you'd imagine Rusty Shayne to look like.

R158 - If ratings started to decline - CBS would lobby P&G to make a change. CBS wasn't doing cartwgeels over what Marland was doing with the ratings. Yes he pushed ATWT to 3rd, but for CBS it was all the demo

Women 18 - 34 and young viewers. After Marland died, CBS let P&G follow in the Marland legacy. But after ratings started to go down, CBS demanded changes to be in line with what ABC was doing. They pressured P&G to fire Executive Producer Laurence Caso who tried to keep the Marland legacy together, and wanted cast cuts with a slew of younger characters introduced.

Among those fired - Patricia Bruder, Kathleen Widdoes, Michael Swan, Margaret Reed, Ed Fry, Susan Marie Snyder, Graham Winton and Lisa Brown

With all the new young characters brought in, ratings went down even more. Ironically one new young character worked - Maura West playing Carly Tenney

R161 also forgot Scott DeFrietas was also fired during this cast purge

That's the sad thing about the P&G shows. They just didn't want to be the thing that people liked about them any more, and they chased all the fans who DID like them away, while satisfying exactly no one with their new story themes and actors.

R161 also Jason Biggs (Pete Wendell) was also fired during the cast purge as the network said he wasn't "hunky" enough for young viewers.

R164 they weren't wrong

The thing that got weird about ATWT in the Sheffer years is how often they killed off younger characters. Bryant Montgomery should have never, ever died.

^I think that P&G's or CBS's decision, not Sheffer's.

R161 I do think the cast needed to be purged. It definitely bloated way too much in the later Marland years. I guess the trouble is that the new characters they brought in weren’t interesting.

R163 Exactly. And these threads show what an intense, generational love we had for these shows. And the amount of people behind the scenes who cares was exactly zero. It’s so sad.

I think ATWT would have enjoyed boffo ratings if they’d brought in Annie’s SORAS’d quads who then offed Ellen Murder on the Orient Express style and buried her body under the patio.

How much money did Eileen Fulton make per episode? Per Year?

Enough to hire a live-in plumber.

The Zaslow tribute is next Friday on the Locher Room and he got

SHERRY STRINGFIELD!

I'm waiting for Alan's Mary Stuart tribute.

He barely knows who the fuck she was.

Apart from that bitch who played Aunt Meta, that is.

Speaking of Aunt Meta, did Mary behave on the GL set? She was quite a handful over at Search.

R176

Let me pull up a chair. I'm always here for some good Mary gossip!

Mary Stuart was a handful. She had to have costumes that covered her neck. It was in her contract. Why? Who knows. Mary was not the nicest person.

James Wlcek is 57, continues to act and still looks great.

If they had kept Andy Dixon and not replaced Julie Wendall with (As the World Turns around) Carly Tenney, I would have continued to watch. But they didn't. So I didn't.

Has Vee approved this post?

Greg Watkins has a website, but I’m not sure if he acts anymore. His last IMDB credit was in 2007. He will be 57 also later this year.

Someone should grab Miss Nelson Aspen, the premier Maryologist. He's dined out on Mary more times than any of us can count.

This one will make me cry.

Lol Nelson Aspen. Nelson Branco. 2 queens that have no careers.

[quote] Greg Watkins has a website,

Forgot Greg Watkins was also handed his walking papers in that massive purge - that one was strange because his character was in that age bracket that the network was demanding the show focus on. and he wasn't bad looking as well

He got fired right after he was released from the hospital (as he was in a boating accident over a long-weekend)

[quote] Nelson Branco. 2 queens that have no careers.

Nelson Branco works for a right-wing newspaper

I'm very disinterested in the Locher Room these days - they don't seem to have any interesting shows, it just to be a derivative rehash of previous shows with the same guests

So I have pretty much checked out.

Nelson Branco claims that Doug Davidson punched him years ago. I’m team Doug! Someone should have done it LONG ago! Go Doug!!!!!!

Marcia McCabe spoke lovingly of Mary Stuart during her Locher Room things with Michael Corbett. Maybe she was drunk.

I know you guys joke about Grant Aleksander's endowment, but he really is huge. I saw him years ago, probably mid-80s during the height of his hotness biking on West End Ave on the upper west side of NYC where I used to live. He stopped to take a rest. This was before helmet laws, and I recognized him immediately. Wasn't going to pass up the chance to get a closer look, so I cruised him. Obviously he didn't give me a second glance, but I checked out the good and he had enormous VPL. He was also more gorgeous in person.

[quote] He was also more gorgeous in person.

Mentioned this on another thread - Grant Alexander was fat as a kid, and he never got over that feeling. Even after losing all that weight, and developing muscles. He looks at himself in the mirror and only sees that fat kid. And he has spoken about this in many magazine articles

So he doesn't take himself seriously, nor sees himself as a "hunk" - viewing all of that as superficial. In fact he has been with the same woman for almost 40 years, his wife whom he met in college.

Even at the height of his fame on Guiding Light and all those female fans mobbing him, it never went to his head, Because every night, he went back to his wife.

I'm posting these two audio clips in case you have not heard them. The first is VW's Rachel with Steve. It's a great scene.

This one is Strasser's Rachel with Rue McClanahan's Caroline Johnson. Caroline was crazy and poisoning Pat Randolph.

I'm reposting the VW one... sorry.

Marland purged a lot of people when he arrived, but he was very careful about introducing new characters, He always tied them to someone the audience cared about.

Ask Mary Linda Rapelye about Marland.

Ask Kim Ulrich about Mary Linda Rapeleye.

Ask Allyson Rice about Susan Batten.

Bruder fan here who always chuckled with glee during big event scenes with lots of characters (weddings, etc.). She and Eileen used to glare at each other (perfectly in character ) across the room while other characters were talking (and were supposed to be the focus). But those two gals always stole the show even if they didn't have a line during the scene. I miss that.

That man stealing hussy!

CZP seemed to have a ton of enemies behind the scenes, especially the women. Did ANY of her costars actually like her?

Does CZP like the sauce? How many dui’s has she had now?

Colleen had lots of friends - it would be incorrect to say tons of enemies, but she and HBS had a long rivalry that resulted in a serious physical fight. And a few of her older costars were not supportive when she left her husband for Mark Pinter.

CZP was not liked at all! Even before her cheating days.

R150, I can answer that. I was working on ATWT and on my first day I was chatting with Widdoes and said something to the effect of how exciting it must be to work on the show and she replied, “it’s a job.”

R206 Did Widdoes pussy stink? She looks like she smells - down there.

Widdoes was apparently a flasher - she flashed more than a few hot young men on set.

[quote] Marland purged a lot of people when he arrived

I'm trying to think who Marland got rid of. Had Frank and Maggie already left by the time Marland arrived? Same question about Jay, Diana, and Kirk. Marland got rid of Cal, Kevin, and Marcy. Who else?

Who the fuck wanted to see Widdoes’ titties?

R209 I know this was part of the bible of his that has floated around for eons, where he explains who is going and why.

Marland's cast was always so big and several times he had to do some culling of the herd.

I know when the newly alive James Stenbeck was assumed dead in the fire at Ruxton Hills, that was actually a budget cut from CBS or P&G - he had to axe James off canvas, as well as the actress playing Emily (who was before Melanie Smith, but looked similar to her) and a few others. It was in Lynda Hirsch or Digest as specifically being a budget cut.

[quote] Marland purged a lot of people when he arrived

actually he DID NOT do a cast purge when he arrived - Marland said many times that the success of head writing is to NOT do cast purge right-away. Keep people on for six months to see how characters would fit in the overall story arch

Jay, Diana, Kirk and Marcy all left on their volition

Cal & Kevin were killed off as part of the Doug Cummings story - but this six months into Marland's tenure as HW

Maggie was so tied to the character of Frank, that when the actor wanted to leave, TPTB decided to write the couple off together.

After the big cast ATWT purge in 1995 one of the "young" characters introduced was Hal's daughter Nikki, played by Jordana Brewster

After the show ratings nosedived due to all the new young characters, CBS ordered emergency surgery. In 1997 P&G quickly fired the EP and Head Writers and brought on "All My Children" veterans EP Felicia Minei Behr and headwriter Lorraine Broderick - they managed to turns things around quickly firing all the "young" actors who were hired the previous yead

But Jordana Brewster was one actress P&G stubbornly held on to for her full three year contract. After her first year Jordana was receiving movie offers, and the show refused to give her time off to accept the roles. Because of that Jordana wouldn't have minded if she was fired, but P&G seeing all the movie she was being offered, decided to hang on to her, yet give her NOTHING to do in terms of story. Except be a baby-sitter for the Hughes family

Not surprisingly the minute her contract expired, she was out the door.

[quote]one of the "young" characters introduced was Hal's daughter Nikki, played by Jordana Brewster

Can't mention Nikki, r214, without including Ryder, played by Kerr Smith.

[quote]Keep people on for six months

I know he said that or wrote that somewhere, but I'm not sure if I buy it. When a show hires a new writer, it's because they are unhappy with the current direction of the show and they want changes.

I think the process used to be when the show was in the market for a new writer, the producers would actually contract with a couple of different writers. Those writers would be sent breakdowns and have to watch the show for a certain amount of time and give notes and critiques about the current show and then write their own bible (which became property of the show). From those notes and bible, the production would pick a new writer.

Maybe Marland didn't have to do that because he was a name. But, I just find it odd that a show makes a writing change and then the new writer says that he's isn't going to make any big casting changes for 6 months to figure shit out.

I think a good writer, like Marland, comes to a show already knowing what he wants to do and sets his plan in motion on day 1 and just waits out contract cycles.

Marland had problems with women. He hated women. He had issues with women in power like Gloria Monty and Agnes Nixon. But he loved men.

[quote] Marland had problems with women. He hated women.

Marland had an issue with Tonya Pinkins who played Heather Dalton. True to his word, he kept her on for six months - using the character to be Frannie confident (Julianne Moore) after Marisa Tomei exited. And cast Count Stoval to be her new love interest.

But he lost interest in her, and canned her - using her salary to create his idea of a strong black woman, Jessica Griffin played by Tamara Tunie.

They just parachuted Tamara right into Tonya's storyline (love interest for Count Stoval) without missing a beat.

[quote] Maybe Marland didn't have to do that because he was a name

Marland didn't have to do that - P&G gave him a choice to write either ATWT or GL. He spent 3 weeks watching both shows and chose ATWT. Both the network & P&G gave him creative control, based on his track record.

Marland did not hate women. That's another gem of ludicrousness from the mentally ill poster. FF and ignore.

Interesting that he had a problem with Tonya Pinkins, though I've heard she also had problems at AMC and in some of her B'way productions.

If Marland had chosen to write GL it would be the first (and only time) he’d be writing for Beverlee McKinsey. That would have been fascinating.

R221 As a head writer, yes, but he wrote breakdowns and dialogue for her as part of Lemay's team in the early 70s.

Apparently one of Marland's good friends was....Dixie Carter.

[quote] Interesting that he had a problem with Tonya Pinkins

Tonya also had a problem with ATWT - she accused Robert Calhoun of "mental cruelty" and said she tried numerous times to quit. But they wouldn't let her out of her contract. According to her, she went on vacation and the show promised her she would have a storyline when she got back in two weeks.

But instead when she returned home, her agency informed her she had already had her last day

For the record Robert Calhoun denied he mentally abused Tonya Pinkins, saying he had nothing but admiration for her beauty and talent.

In one of the AMC Locher Rooms, Jill Larson and William Christian talked fondly about Tonya Pinkins, but did say she was a bit loony.

Tellingly, when James Kiberd was asked what he remembered about working with Kate Collins, he said “I don’t remember anything.” Asshole.

I wish Kate had gone to ATWT after AMC. Might have made me watch it more often. I think by 1992 I wasn’t watching it much. Was that the era of Heather Rattray Lily? I remember not hating her as much as some people did.

Tonya Pinkins branded a “deadbeat parent” in the New York Post for failure to pay child support.

She allegedly set up a dummy corporation to get out of paying more than $100,000 in back child support, her ex-husband says.

In papers filed in Manhattan Supreme Court, musician Ron Brawer claims Pinkins is funneling herself money to dodge support payments for her two children despite raking in hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for her work in the play “Caroline, or Change” and her role on “All My Children.”

The suit claims Pinkins, who has her wages garnisheed by New York state for her failure to pay support, had all her earnings from the musical and the show go to her company, Divinity to Infinity.

Divinity would then pay her a much smaller “salary” than what she was actually making, and the state would then garnishee her wages from that smaller amount.

That means that while Brawer can collect on the $1,000 a month in current support she owes their kids, Maxx, 16, and Myles, 14, he can’t collect on the $101,720.91 in back support.

Pinkins’ lawyer, Judith Richman, said “the issues in the case are extremely complex.”

Pinkins landed in The Post’s “Deadbeats Hall of Shame” last year over the issue.

According to this article Tonya claims she was on welfare! when her ex went after her for back child support

How Tonya Pinkins ended up on welfare (after winning a Tony Award)

At the height of her happiness -- with no clue, she said, of what was about to happen -- she walked out of the Virginia Theater's stage door after a Saturday matinee, accepted what she thought was a request for an autograph and found, as she started to sign her name, that she had just been served with divorce papers. (Among other things, the suit cited Ms. Pinkins's Tony speech as evidence of her secondary parental status.) Thus began a seemingly endless legal battle in which she lost custody of her two young boys (despite being declared a fit parent), was ordered to pay $25,000 a year in child support, had her wages garnished for failure to do so, was barred from and eventually lost her equity in the couple's Manhattan loft and New Jersey mansion and ended up -- even as recently as two years ago, when she was already workshopping 'Caroline' -- on public assistance, all but homeless and dependent on her friends. Meanwhile, she had had two more children, whose fathers left her, and them, without a penny.

Tonya can be a strong personality. Black actresses in daytime with strong personalities tend to have a lot of people coming for them.

“Strong personality” = entitled bitch. Let’s call it like it is, shall we?

Tonya seems perfectly sane to me!

[quote]Tellingly, when James Kiberd was asked what he remembered about working with Kate Collins, he said “I don’t remember anything.”

He probably preferred Robin Mattson, who was a very good Janet. But no one beats Kate Collins who owns Natalie and thus, Janet, too.

I’d forgotten how remarkable Kerr’s face looked when he was on the show. He’s still gorgeous though at 49.

If Kerr Smith is now a daddy with gray hair, I feel so, SO old.

I want this music to play when I sashay into my living room....

[quote] Was that the era of Heather Rattray Lily? I remember not hating her as much as some people did.

Oh that was YOU who liked her!

Kidding, but yeah, I just didn't care for her. I'm sure she was closer to Doug's original ideas about Lily becoming the bitch of the show. But she wasn't the Lily that many fans fell in love with.

[quote] I'm sure she was closer to Doug's original ideas about Lily becoming the bitch of the show.

Three months before Rattray contract was up, Marland called Martha Byrne personally to come back to the show. It wasn't Rattray decision to leave, P&G let her contract expire, and never approached Rattray about renewing.

Rattray had such a strong resemblance to that brave Pinched Sphincter Syndrome sufferer, Heather Tom.

Rattray still lasted a hell of a lot longer on her show than Rhonda Lewin and Ann Hamilton did on theirs, though.

Kate Collins would have been fun ok ATWT as Samantha.

R240 funny, I was thinking Neal but similar idea.

I'm late to this thread, but the idea of Doug Marland writing for '90s OLTL has me MARY!ing all over the place. On the other hand, it might not have lasted long, since I'm skeptical if he would have worked well opposite Linda Gottlieb.

OK, I REALLY want to see the scene on Dutch soap Goede Tijden, Slechte Tijden where Sair Poindexter (Elizabeth Hubbard) gifted a character with a vibrator.

So Hubbard appeared on the Dutch soap but did her scenes in English?

I love her, but I'm LOL'ing at the idea of the language barriers plus Liz's known tendency to improvise. That must have been a nightmare for someone.

Too bad Pam Long and Gail Kobe didn't try harder to keep some of the existing GL cast when they took over in 1983 like Marland did when he took over ATWT in 1985.

As much as I adored what Pam did, I really wish she'd tried harder to keep Hope, Amanda and Mike, not to mention Justin Marler.

Of course, even the earlier characters they kept around, they didn't really write for them . Just let them languish on the back burner until thier contracts were up.

As we have discussed MANY times before.....it was CBS and P&G that pushed for a lot of the changes, not Pam and Gail. Or in any case, not as much as they are blamed for, anyway.

At one point circa 1982ish CBS really wanted the Hughes gone from ATWT and the Bauers from GL. They thought General Hospital-izing all their soaps would be the answer.

When they hired Pam they pointed to some of the characters from Texas and said, "We want that" - thinking it would also bring some of the flavor of the Buchanans from OLTL.

In fact, originally Jerry Lanning was supposed to be Billy Lewis, and Lisby Larson was supposed to have a role, but P&G ultimately kiboshed Jerry's casting and waited to hire Lisby.

[quote] As much as I adored what Pam did, I really wish she'd tried harder to keep Hope, Amanda and Mike, not to mention Justin Marler.

The actors who played the characters listed above - all left on their OWN volition. With the exception of the actress who played Amanda - it wasn't her choice to leave.

Don Stewart was in his late 40s and thought he'd keep being paired with twentysomething women. When he learned Mike Bauer was slated to be paired with new character Alexandra Spaulding he said no thanks. Stories differ as to whether he left or whether it was more of a mutual thing.

[quote]Don Stewart was in his late 40s and thought he'd keep being paired with twentysomething women.

We could do a whole thread just on P&G actors/actresses who shot themselves in the foot.

We could do a whole thread on soap actors in general who pulled that shit. Both Bob Woods and Phil Carey did at OLTL. One of the poor young actresses was interviewed for the OLTL book and she was like, Phil was old and stinky and didn't have fresh breath. But he was supposed to be kissing her.....ewwwwww.

Interesting find from online when I tried to search for interviews about Don Stewart leaving GL.

Part One.....

[quote] 1) Scott Bryce stated in an issue of Soap Opera Digest, back in the 1980s, that his father, Ed Bryce, had wanted to retire. Yes, maybe they could have re-casted the part of Bill Bauer. But, then, Peter Simon actually got a lot of flack for replacing Mark Hulswit and Simon's replacement in 1984 also got flack. 2) According to the Gail Kobe interview for GL's 50th anniversary in Soap Opera Digest, Peter Simon chose to leave. The show couldn't do anything about that. 3) From the same interview, Kobe lumped Don Stewart in with the group (actress who played Hillary Bauer and the actress who played Hope) that had storyline disagreements. However, Don Stewart later stated in a Soap Opera Digest article that he was getting burned out worked on a daytime soap and wanted to leave. That it was his choice. Before he left, the show was clearly playing with the idea of an Alexandra/Mike/Lillian triangle. He was put in multiple scenes with Alexandra. Also, his character, as a lawyer, probably would have been the one to defend Lujack, if Stewart had stayed. 4) Charita was ill. There was nothing that the show could do about that. What they could and did do was treat her better than the TIIC who were running the show in the 1990s treated Michael Zaslow. They told her that she could work as much as she wanted to. 5) Hillary and Hope's exit were definitely over storyline disagreements. The actress who played Hillary had writing aspirations. The actress who played Hope didn't want Hope to be an alcoholic.

I actually preferred Heather Rattray as Lily. I started watching in 1989, and one of the first eps I remember is Martha Byrne's Lily watching her house burn up, after which Lily went to the plastic surgery convent in Switzerland and came back looking like Heather Rattray. So Heather, in essence, was my imprint Lily.

Part Two.....

[quote] 6) Anyone could have brought the character of Hope back. But no one, especially not Curlee and Demorest, brought her back. They also did nothing to expand the Bauer family, but, instead, expanded the Cooper family. It was ultimately the Cooper family that supplanted the Bauer family in the 90s and 00s. I think Curlee and Demorest were top tier soap opera writers, but, they didn't do the Bauers much good other than writing the few Bauers that were on the show during their stint as head-writers, well. Expanding the Cooper family helped bring about the demise of the Bauers. I have read that David K. was a fan of Curlee and Demorest's work with the Coopers. Not to mention, Maureen being killed off by Curlee and Demorest due to a focus group finding her boring. Maybe there was nothing that Curlee and Demorest could have done, that would have made Maureen more interesting to that focus group, but, maybe they could have written better stories featuring her. With Another World, the character of Frankie Frame was another case of "death by focus group". It is unlikely that the Swajeski-era Frankie would have been deemed "boring". 7) During the Pam Long-era the Bauers were the "fun" core family. Frequently, the actors talent at humor was utilized and showcased. She also put her significant other, Jay Hammer, in scenes with the Bauers and the Reardons during his first two years on the show. Fletcher was in love with Hillary in the beginning of his run. He later became best buds with Maureen. He was involved with Claire while she was pregnant with Michelle. The show even played a little with the idea of a Maureen/Ed/Fletcher triangle during the late 80s. 8) Pam Long created a Bauer, Michelle. 9) She developed/co-developed two of the younger generation of the Bauer family (Rick and A-M) into big fan favorites. As long as I live, I will never understand why her long-term contribution to the Bauer family, via her development of Rick and A-M, isn't even acknowledged by her critics. 10) Pam Long didn't create the character of Johnny Bauer. He was introduced in 1986, after she had left the show. But, she did write the Johnny Bauer/Chelsea Reardon romance. 11) So, while it was a mistake to write off the characters of Hillary and Hope and they should have wrote Bert's death into the show sooner, I have never agreed with the Bauer purists (whose fandom apparently doesn't include Rick and A-M) feelings on Pam Long. It was pretty standard for TIIC at various shows to pressure head-writers to create new characters who could be played by cheaper new actors vs. the more expensive veteran actors. Pam Long, in terms of her GL run, just happened to be a more successful character creator/co-creator/developer/co-developer than most head-writers. Curlee and Demorest created a bunch of new characters during their run. 12) I loved Doug Marland's era of ATWT. However, even he had his faults. He wrote the character of Roger Thorpe into a corner. Long's human and well-developed characters mantra from GL helped make the character viable again. When Marland redeemed the characters of Alan on GL and Craig on ATWT he softened them too much. Craig, on ATWT, went from town scoundrel to the guy who wouldn't even tell a white lie --- per a soap opera magazines criticism of/commentary on Craig's reformation. Marland created the very large Snyder clan on ATWT. Who ended up supplanting the Hughes family as the core family. Even during the Marland era, when Chris Hughes died on the show, the Snyder family farm was heavily featured in those episodes. The viewers didn't get to see Tom and Margo find out about Chris's death. But, pretty much everything going on at the Snyder farm, we got to see. Actor Brian Bloom was not happy with the way his character was written out. He was getting a lot of fan mail, but, was barely ever used in storylines. He was basically phased out.

A follow up to R253 a few comments later

{quote] One final clarification - Doug Marland really didn't write Roger Thorpe into a corner. He was told when he took over the show that he had about 3 to 4 months to get rid of Roger. Honestly, I don't know what Marland could have done with Roger after Roger had raped both Rita and Holly, had faked his own death, etc. That was all done when the Dobsons were still writing GL.

Didn't Marland have issues redeeming certain characters. It's one of the major reasons why he left GH. I could totally see him wanting Roger to be gone.

More like the post shared at R253 - Marland often redeemed all his male villains or antiheroes to the point of limpness. A rare exception was having John Dixon involved with the whole Sabrina Fullerton business.

R244, all of Liz’s scenes were in English with a few Dutchisms thrown in from time to time. I’ve enjoyed clips of her in it. Her acting seemed much more disciplined than on ATWT, most likely because she had to resist ad libbing.

I love this scene where the Dutch bitch sister tries to throw out Sair (Liz):

[quote] Don Stewart was in his late 40s and thought he'd keep being paired with twentysomething women. When he learned Mike Bauer was slated to be paired with new character Alexandra Spaulding he said no thanks.

Then why was he okay with being paired with Tina Sloan, who is close to the same age as Bev McKinsey?

I don't think he was okay with either of them, R258, thus his departure. Alexandra was the character I remember listed in an article about him leaving.

Amanda Seyfried just did an interview and was asked about her time on As The World Turns

She said it was horrible, that the people were not warm, the person in charge (who later fired her) was mean

I assume she is talking about Chris Goutman

Pam Long did not create the character of Rick Bauer. Phil MacGregor started as the adult Rick Bauer in Dec. 1982, the same time Grant started as adult Phillip.

Pam became HW until May 1983. She and Gail Kobe opted to recast the role with Michael O'Leary, but the character was there before she was.

In the six months Phil MacGregor was there, his Rick was already playing second fiddle to Grant's Phillip. Pam just continued what was already being done by previous HWs.

Marland's final scripts aired in Sept. 1982, but his story projections would have gone on for several more months, at the very least. I've always wondered if it was part of Marland's Bible to bring SORASed Phillip and Rick back to town at Christmas 1982. Or was that the idea of one of the subsequent HWs, Pat Falken Smith and then L. Virginia Brown.

That should read "Pam became HW in May 1983" not until May 1983.

Sorry. Should proof before posting.

[quote]At one point circa 1982ish CBS really wanted the Hughes gone from ATWT and the Bauers from GL. They thought General Hospital-izing all their soaps would be the answer.

When Jamie Lynn Bauer opted not to renew her contract at Y&R, Bill Bell decided to write the entire Brooks clan off and refocus the show on the Abbots and the Newmans.

CBS saw how easy it had been to jettison the Brooks family and still maintain the ratings, so decided they wanted to do that with the Hughes and Bauer families. The daytime exec in charge at CBS in 1982 was a man named Brian Frons.

[quote] The daytime exec in charge at CBS in 1982 was a man named Brian Frons.

Say no more

[quote]L. Virginia Brown

I hope she was better on GL than she was on AW. I consider her only slightly better than the dreaded Corrine Jacker.

The stretch between Doug and Pam was not a long one but it was filled with multiple writers.

Pat Falken Smith famously had a truck run into the boarding house, which is how we got Company.

Pat Falken Smith also wrote the interminable storm on the oil rig in Venezuela during which Mark and Amanda (of the newly formed Los Tres Amigos firm along with Josh) fucked, resulting in Amanda’s pregnancy.

That was one of the swerves to make GL more like GH or DAYS. Pat Falken Smith had written for both, if I remember right.

Pat Falken Smith was brought in twice to replace Doug-once at GH and once at GL. She wasn’t successful at GL.

Why didn’t they just bring the Dobsons back to GL in 1982? People loved their work at GL, not so much at ATWT.

R269 I think after ATWT they'd sworn off ever writing for a P&G show again and decided they'd create their own - as it would avoid all the challenges they faced!

Of course, they ended up getting locked out of their own show at Santa Barbara, so, that proved to not be true, either.

They should have asked Kay Alden from Y&R to try her hand at GL.

Los Tres Amigos was Amanda, Ross and Josh. Mark Evans was not part of it.

But it was while stranded in Venezula together that Mark and Amanda fucked, which set into motion the eventual departure of both Jennifer and Morgan.

R272, you have a great memory.

I never understood writing out and not bringing back Amanda except for her 1987 Christmas appearance; I don't count her being recast in the mid 90s and being made Alan's sister.

Spitting in the face of Doug's carefully crafted history; I would think at least Matthew Spaulding would pop up; he'd have a blood tie to Amanda but not the Spauldings as the child's parents were Jennifer and Mark.

R273 yes, Matthew Spaulding is like Peter Reardon - connections galore without actually being related to everyone, and tons of built in conflict, so who knows why they never brought them back.

[quote]so who knows why they never brought them back.

These shows hired writers who a) don't the history of these shows b) ignore the history of these shows c) have no incentive or direction to honor/use the history of these shows.

I remember reading an article from a headwriter once who said that it is easier creating someone new than bringing on an historical character where you have to spend days explaining who that character is in relation to the show. And that characters like that come with a bunch of story traps.

And then there are writers like Ron Carlivati, who lap up that kind of historical stuff to create current story. I always laughed at how he said he had to be explained how Julie was both Hope's "mother" and sister. But, there was someone on staff who was able to explain it to him, most shows don't have a person with that kind of intimate knowledge of the show.

I bet Lily Walsh had a big egg hunt on that lawn of hers.

And she got a new dress, too!

At the LEAST, she had a fancy dinner!

R274, a few years out of college, I wanted to work on Guiding Light more than ANYTHING.

I pitched a new 'Four Muskateers' circa late 1985 or 1986 -- Matthew Spaulding, Samantha Marler, Stacey Chamberlain and another guy...I can't think of who...maybe A.J.? But I don't think it was him. I had Samantha being a bitch and she wants Matthew -- there's no blood between them; but he falls for Stacy.... Samantha finds out Stacy's real father is convicted murderer Floyd Parker and blackmails her; destroys her at the prom....but she and Matthew find love anyway.

This was before Carl Evans came on as A-M, so maybe I pitched Alan Michael as the fourth in the new teen set.

I got in for an interview to be an office p.a.; they liked me, but it was competitive; they had interns, family members. Even if I'd gotten in, the last 12 years, I'd have been doing something totally different anyway.

Your ideas sound amazing, R277. Christ knows any other version of Samantha would have been better than the simp we got.

The Samantha Marler character had so much potential, but was never utilized properly.

She was one of Pam's few dud characters. I'm surprised Pam didn't do a better job at developing Samantha in the two years she was on the show.

Then again Dylan was a dud character too. They tried to do what they eventually did more successfully with Jonathan with Dylan first, but Morgan Englund was not a very good actor, sad to say, and he wasn't convincingly angry. Plus Pam was going to resolve the issues and make them all one big happy hugging family anyway.

Have we been M'd?

I wonder why the other P&G soaps of the mid-'80s (ATWT, AW and SFT) didn't attempt their own "Four Musketeers"? AMC maybe came closest with Greg & Jenny and Jesse & Angie (although there was no chance of, say, Jenny & Jesse).

[quote] I wonder why the other P&G soaps of the mid-'80s (ATWT, AW and SFT) didn't attempt their own "Four Musketeers"?

Actually they did

GL - Alan-Michael, Harley, Cameron & Dinah

AW - Diego, Maggie, Nick & Sophia

ATWT - Georgie, Eddie, Chris & Katie

What am I, R282, chopped liver?

[quote]I wonder why the other P&G soaps of the mid-'80s (ATWT, AW and SFT) didn't attempt their own "Four Musketeers"?

[quote]Actually they did

[quote]GL - Alan-Michael, Harley, Cameron & Dinah

[quote]AW - Diego, Maggie, Nick & Sophia

[quote]ATWT - Georgie, Eddie, Chris & Katie

While the GL bunch is indeed of the mid 1980s, the AW group listed is from the mid 1990s and the ATWT group is from the late 1990s.

In 1984, AW had its younger set which consisted of Marley Love, Ben McKinnon, Julia Shearer, Nancy McGowan and Perry Hitchins. Plus there was also Thomasina Harding and Carter Todd as black sidekicks of this group, but they were involved in their own romance.

This group was a pale imitation of the Four Musketeers, but they got a lot of air time in summer 1984. The Julia Shearer character was killed off while this group made a jaunt to NYC. The Ben McKinnon (Kathleen's little brother) character never caught on and was written off after about 6 months.

By spring 1985, the show refocused it's younger set to center around Marley Love, in the process bringing in Vicky Carson (Hudson) and Jake McKinnon to make a triangle.

The Perry Hutchins character was killed off in May 1985 when the actor (David Oliver) didn't renew his contract. The Nancy McGowan character was written off in May 1987 when the actress (Jane Cameron) didn't renew her contract.

Thanks, AuntLiz!

[quote] While the GL bunch is indeed of the mid 1980s, the AW group listed is from the mid 1990s and the ATWT group is from the late 1990s.

Then what about

ATWT - Kirk, Frannie, Jay & Marcy in the mid-80s?

Going back to Matthew Spaulding for a moment. Who are some other "forgotten" characters that should have been brought back.

I'll start, Pammy Davis, Another World. She should have been Justine. Others?

HOPE BAUER!

Stacey Chamberlain, for sure (though already mentioned).

Tom Reardon (Tony and Annabelle's son) - and I'm sure a daughter could have been introduced and it would ring true.

The Marler children - the twins and the girl (names escape me)

Jessie Matthews - I actually wonder what it would have been like if Crystal Chappell had taken on that role, instead of one made up out of thin air. (I liked Olivia, don't get me wrong, but the connections would have been something)

Mike Bauer could have been recast after a long absence, with a child that would have replenished the Bauers. Or we learn he had a family.

I'll think of more, I'm sure.

Literally, a million points of possible connections listed above.....but no, let's invent, say, Ava and then connect her to two random people on the canvas AND let's make it that the guy raped the woman, who not long before finding out Ava was her child had been trying to kill her.

And THEN, after THAT retcon, let's just write Ava off! That's golden age storytelling there *eyeroll*

We've often mentioned that the show missed an opportunity by not bringing Deitrick Lindsey to town. He was Holly's ex-husband and Blake's stepfather.

You're right R291!

And there were two Dietrich's I think - father and son. Or Dietrich and his unnamed son.

Today 15 years ago was apparently the 50th Anniversary celebration of ATWT on "Soap Talk."

(Maybe that was the tape date? I know the actual anniversary - now the 65th - is in a few weeks)

ATWT debuted on April 2, 1956.

Edge of Night debuted the same day.

Hard to image that was 65 years ago.

I would SO win this

Omg that old queen who’s running the board in r295 is hysterical. You know she dialed with a pencil and sat next to Mother and lit her Parliaments as they watched Search and Guiding Light together.

R296 LOLOLOL

Has Jill Lorie Hurst chimed in yet at Alan’s Michael Zaslow tribute? Because you know she will.

Aw, I like Jill.

Why Locher weirdly sort of relies on her in those sessions, who knows.

Sherry Stringfield was a no show.

But Blake #1 was an added guest

Zaslow and Elizabeth Dennehy wouldn't have worked together very long.

As I recall, they fired her right after Blake's wedding to Phillip. It was during those wedding scenes that Roger revealed himself to be alive.

Obviously, her Blake had a handful of scenes with him during that reveal sequence, but then Blake was off camera for a month. When Blake returned, it was Sherry Stringfield playing her.

I think "Adam" was Blake's confident for weeks.

Back then, the shows would gather for long tape days and it sounds like Zaslow was pretty involved in the whole production.

Nowadays, actors come in, shoot their shit and they're out the door and they don't know (or care, I can't blame them)

R300, you mean Blake No. 2.

R99, Patsy's style didn't mature and evolve as the pacing for soaps changed into the 80s and 90s.

I do recall Ellen BLASTING Emily over her seductress ways at one point; she was great.

God Bless, Doug; he had Ellen there for nearly every Hughes crisis including the Doug Cummings murder trial; Ellen referred to her own murder trial to Kim; all before my time, but I love shows using history like that.

I thought Julianne Moore was a Doug Marland find? He saw her in a play or something?

Even sadder than David's death was Ellen's brillo pad hairstyle that week.

R305 I just spit out my iced tea, you naughty minx.

I remember seeing Bruder in photos with her own homely teenage daughters and they had Brillo pads for hair, too!

Someone started this yesterday

from the Locher Room tribute

[quote] I'd love to ask everyone today to keep this a loving, light place to share memories of Michael and his incredible work.

And this is really what's killing those meetups for me. I get that it would not be fun to have it be a cesspit of negativity, but telling people criticism isn't welcome.....ugh

What critical thing did you want to say, r309, about Michael Zaslow?

[quote] And this is really what's killing those meetups for me. I get that it would not be fun to have it be a cesspit of negativity, but telling people criticism isn't welcome.....ugh

I used to be a BIG Locher Room supporter - always tweeting encouraging words to Alan Locher and tuning into his shows

Then one day in the new year, he just cut me right off. Wouldn't respond to anything I tweeted or any question I would ask in his shows.

Oh well.

Well, I doiubt anyonr would like to talk about what how generous Michael was with his cock with his widow sitting right there.

R310 It wasn't really about Zaslow per se.....but since you asked, the participants should have been free to say "P&G treated him like absolute shit at the end."

But I really meant it more overall for every Locher Room show, not really the Zaslow tribute. Alan is always Let's All Hold Hands and Sing Kumbaya.

P&G TV doesn't even exist any more and they haven't paid his check for a decade.... but let's not at all talk about why these shows died. Let's just ask Grant Aleksander for the 84th time if he remembers his first day.

BREAKING - Vincent Irizarry (Lujack GL) son has been ARRESTED and CHARGED in the Jan. 6 riots at the U.S. Capitol.

Guess Vince Irizarry won't be on the Locher Room anytime soon

[quote] BREAKING - Vincent Irizarry (Lujack GL) son has been ARRESTED and CHARGED in the Jan. 6 riots at the U.S. Capitol.

Here he is at the U.S. Capitol Riots wearing a MAGA Hat

Why doesn't it surprise me Vincent Irizarry's son goes to the Citidal and was involved in the Jan. 6 riots.

[quote]P&G TV doesn't even exist any more and they haven't paid his check for a decade.... but let's not at all talk about why these shows died. Let's just ask Grant Aleksander for the 84th time if he remembers his first day.

Alan is coming at these interviews from the perspective of a PR guy. In his job as PR person for P&G, he was responsible for making sure the shows and the actors were portrayed in a positive light and that any negative/controversial stuff was downplayed at all costs.

That PR mentality comes through in every show he does. In one of the early sessions from back in April or May, he did with OLTL cast, he chastised the cast members for mentioning smoking cigarettes (!?!)

Alan is however, demonstrating repeatedly why a skilled reporter who knows how to conduct an interview should be running these sessions. Alan misses so many questions and so many opportunities to shed new light on situations.

For example, on the Beverlee McKinsey tribute, he had Scott McKinsey on and neglected to ask him a multitude of questions such as

1. Why was your mom tired of AW and ready to quit when they offered her Texas?

2. Why did she leave Texas after just 16 months?

3. What made her decide to go back to soaps in 1984 and why did she chose GL rather than returning to AW as Iris?

4. Did she discuss her decision to abruptly leave GL in 1992 with Scott? What factored into that decision?

5. Did it bother her she never got nominated for an Emmy for her GL work?

I think Alan Locher just doesn't want to offend anyone, which is why he only asks softball questions that don't offend

[quote]Alan is however, demonstrating repeatedly why a skilled reporter who knows how to conduct an interview should be running these sessions. Alan misses so many questions and so many opportunities to shed new light on situations.

I don't watch these things because I don't really care all that much, but this Alan guy did this on his own, clearly as a labor of love for soap fans, and soap fans revert to form and complain about everything. He's not asking the right questions, he's not getting the right guests. If Alan is not doing this to your taste, then don't watch and start your own Zoom classic soap star interview series. This man did not have to do this.

[quote] If Alan is not doing this to your taste, then don't watch and start your own Zoom classic soap star interview series. This man did not have to do this.

I completely agree with you - which is why I stopped watching.

I do really appreciate what Alan has done. But I was hoping he would have learned and gotten better in his role.

As much as people tease Roger Newcomb on this board....Roger would have crushed this concept and done it very well. Or at least known the questions to ask.

So do we assume that the Irizarry kid is channeling daddy?

I saw on another site that the kid at age 16 or 17 was at city council meetings saying really hateful shit about immigrants.

Reportedly Muriel has paid a visit to this thread.

Time to move on to other topics beside the Snyders.

And this thread didn’t even make it to Easter. Sigh.

R324 I blame that damn Iva Snyder and that Mrs. Snyder!

I know this thread is in lockdown, but was Lucinda the same age as Emma or the same age as Iva?

Lucinda was more Emma's age.

In the 80s when the Snyders were introduced, Iva was supposed to be in her early 30s, as Lily was the product of her rape at age 13, and Lily was just turning 17-18. So Emma would have been mid-50s ish. Lucinda was roughly the same age.

In real life, Liz Hubbard is six years older than Kathleen Widdoes.