Merchant-Ivory movies are dull. Prove me wrong.

A Room with a View.

If you don’t like this I can’t help you.

I think I may have seen that r1 but if so I have no recollection of it.

I’ll tell you what, I’ll give it a try this week. You know, it might have been that theirs really big decade was mid 80s to mid 90s and I was in my 20s-30s then. But I recall literally falling asleep during several of their films.

“Their really big decade”

The one who didn't die outed himself as a pedo with that CMBYN crap.

Yes, you may appreciate it more now.

It’s got Maggie Smith, the spectacular Italian countryside, the gorgeous Julian Sands, funny side characters, young love...what’s not to like?

Try to post after you watch it.

I thought their movies were really hit or miss, and can't deny a few were sleep-inducing (including "The Wild Party", in spite of its title).

I stayed awake through and really liked "Mr. and Mrs. Bridge" and "The Remains of the Day", and, like others on the thread, enjoyed "A Room with a View". One of their earliest movies, "Shakespeare Wallah", is pretty interesting too, and "Maurice" isn't perfect, but I didn't find it dull.

.

We can't "prove you wrong"--if you find them dull, you find them dull. None of us gives a shit whether you like them or not.

They're like Altman - the films can be very erratic, but I love digging through them anyway. A Room with a View and Maurice will always have a very large place in my heart.

The Deceivers - It features a young Pierce Brosnan as well as Keith Michell. It's about the East India Company versus the Thuggee. I admit a weakness for Brosnan, but I found it a suspenseful adventure movie..

[quote] None of us gives a shit whether you like them or not.

Clearly you’re a master of not paying attention.

Howard’s End is my favorite... even though there’s a few plot/cultural points that annoy me.

I want to watch The Golden Bowl again. As I remember it, the film wasn’t super engrossing but it does have a remarkable cast.

Slaves of New York was delightfully horrible! Bernadette peters as a quirky hat designer.

The purpose of Merchant-Ivory films was to look at beautiful boys in pretty scenery. Plot and character were secondary concerns.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

[quote]Slaves of New York was delightfully horrible! Bernadette peters as a quirky hat designer.

Do you know how difficult it was to make Tama Janowitz and 1980s New York City come across as dull? Not just anyone can achieve that.

Why do we need to prove anything to you? Everyone has their opinions about things...if you don’t like something you’re not required to explain why and the same thing goes if you like something.

Some of their movies are very good; others less so.

Now, here’s a dollar....go watch a Star War.

OP, some of them are boring.

That one with the dreary Lee Remick was boring. But Ivory was making the point that country life in the 1820s was boring.

Console yourself with the thought that some of those films will find your sympathy when you rewatch it in 20 or 40 years time!

Maurice, The Remains of the Day and Mr. and Mrs. Bridge are good films and sometimes you have to be in the right frame of mind to appreciate. The Remains of the Day is low key, heart rending and in its own quiet way shattering. I watched it on HBO a few years back and was quite surprised at how good it was and I saw Maurice and Mr. and Mrs. Bridge in theaters at the time of their release and liked both of them.

lots of penis though

that's why I used to stay up late to watch them on HBO as a kid.

Judi Dench said that she filmed a mad scene for "Room With A View." Did that footage ever turn up?

Stephen Frears once referred to them as the "Laura Ashley school of filmmaking" and the "rattling of teacups."

R21 One could say the same for Stephen Frears' The Queen which I like.

CMBYN has been discussed enough.

Maurice is extremely important as a landmark and warhorse of gay cinema. Plus Forster would have creamed himself if he could’ve seen the beautiful Rupert Graves as Scudder give that twink ass to the repressed Maurice.

I’ve also loved Howards End, both for the divine main theme using Grainger’s Bridal Lullaby and the delicate way Thompson’s complicated relationship with Hopkins is portrayed. He’s definitely an a-hole, but she actually does love him, despite his problematic views, and her sister’s escapades.

And Remains is a lovely exploration of our capacity to be comfortable with our station in life. As someone who never wants to rock the boat, I related heavily with Hopkin’s character.

The other films I’ve yet to see.

Katharine Hepburn said all Merchant-Ivory movies were a "bore"

R24 That assertion might be credible if you told us when Hepburn ALLEGEDLY made that assertion.

[quote]Maurice is extremely important as a landmark and warhorse of gay cinema. Plus Forster would have creamed himself if he could’ve seen the beautiful Rupert Graves as Scudder give that twink ass to the repressed Maurice.

[quote] That assertion might be credible if you told us when Hepburn ALLEGEDLY made that assertion.

In her official biography written by Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer A. Scott Berg

Hepburn told Berg

" found Merchant-Ivory films a bore."

[quote] The one who didn't die outed himself as a pedo with that CMBYN crap.

You are so full of shit.

[quote] Why do we need to prove anything to you?

🙄

R24 says the woman who did the exact same thing on screen for 50 years.

Thank you, R26 ❤️

They gave me Perry King nude. Bless them.

For the most part, yes I think the movies are dull. But...that boathouse scene between Scudder and Maurice is one of the hottest and romantic scenes I've ever seen in a movie, gay or straight.

Howards End is one of the most accurate depictions of the class system in Britain, it's as true now as it was then. It's beautifully written and the cast is perfect. Even posh boy Sam West is great as poor put upon Leonard Bast.

The Remains Of The Day is beautiful and covers a part of British history left largely untouched - the aristocracy's flirtation with Hitler and its hostility to Jews.

I also have a soft spot for Le Divorce. A fun movie with a great cast - Kate Hudson has never been better as a vapid and materialistic woman. Naomi Watts, Stockard Channing, Glenn Close and Bebe Neuwirth are great alongside their French counterparts including the lovely Melvil Poupaud.

Maurice is in my top 10 of the best films ever made, alongside films like La Dolce Vita, Terminator 2, Paris Texas, Alphaville and Alien. Are they objectively and technically the most perfect films ever made? Maybe not but they've left a huge and practically life-changing impression on me. And Maurice definitely is one of the most important ones for me.

[quote]The purpose of Merchant-Ivory films was to look at beautiful boys in pretty scenery. Plot and character were secondary concerns.

The first time I saw Maurice I sobbed and cried for half an hour when the credits started rolling. Anyone claiming that plot and characters don't matter in Maurice are full of shit. However I do agree that generally Merchant/Ivory films set in the British past tend to so lovingly show the characters follow the societal rules that people really seem almost interchangeable. Still, their films create tension when showing the human side of those characters and have them break the rules, and from all of their films Maurice goes the farthest in that.

Are we not telling OP about Freddy, George, and Mr. Beene cavorting nude in Room with a View?

I’m sorry, the was Freddy, George, and Rev. Beebe.

The Remains Of The Day was brilliant apart from a miscast Emma Thompson

I've liked the ones I've watched. They have a certain feel about them - like you'd know you were watching a Merchant/Ivory production if you didn't know beforehand. Like Spike Lee's films, their way of producing the film is particular to them.

R13 precisely.

There is a gay-interest genre in Japanese, Korean, Thai, and Taiwanese film with the same M.O., called BL (short for ‘boys love’—no, not referring to pederasty).

These films are all fairly cheaply made unlike the sumptuous prestige look of Merchant-Ivory, and their source material tends to me more contemporary and less literary, but the formula of ‘pretty people in fraught and sometimes-homoerotic relationships+romantic sentimental score+yearning cinematography’ is the same.

Some are highly enjoyable as guilty pleasures. My personal favourites are a few of the original Japanese genre-codifiers: AI NO KOTODAMA (2008, eng: WORDS OF DEVOTION); ITSUKA NO KIMI E (2007, eng: SOMEDAY, YOU), and; NATSUYASUMI NO YOU NA IKKAGETSU (2008, eng: ONE MONTH LIKE A SUMMER VACATION).

OP loves "The Avengers."

How cute.

WHERE ANGELS FEAR TO TREAD is the most Merchant-Ivory film NOT made by them. Truly delightful with a stellar cast including Rupert Graves, Helen Mirren, Helena Bonham-Carter, Judy Davis and the hunky young Italian Giovanni Guidelli. Gorgeous Tuscan scenery, exquisite costumes. Directed by Charles Sturridge and based on the novel by EM Forster.

Without Forster, there wouldn’t really be a Merchant-Ivory.

R38

I'm assuming you're serious and not being sarcastic, so I'm wondering who you would have cast instead of Emma Thompson? I thought she was brilliant, but tastes vary. I may be blinded by her indelible attachment to the character in my mind, but I can't think of another actress that would have done a better job.

I think I remember reading that Meryl Streep desperately wanted the role and there was some brouhaha about her not getting it - maybe that she fired an agent - maybe that she thought Mike Nichols (producer) should have given it to her and Nichols told her she wasn't right for the part. I'll have to go look that up. BUT - I like Streep generally but I see her chewing the scenery in that movie and over powering the delicacy of the character.

Other opinions?

I still scratch my head about all the Academy Awards it DIDN'T win. Maybe I'm not a proper judge though, since, generally, I adore Merchant-Ivory films.

If I think of the best movies I've ever seen, 'Maurice', 'Remains of the Day', 'Howards End', and 'Room with a View' are all on the list. I think they are all, arguably, perfect films.

r44, you're correct about Meryl and it's covered in the great new Mike Nichols bio.

Mike was originally going to direct the film (he owned the rights) and had hoped to reunite Meryl and Jeremy Irons in it, but because of scheduling, it didn't happen quickly enough and, in the meantime, Mike had developed a close friendship with Emma (can't remember quite where that started....it wasn't on a film), who's career was on fire. Mike remained as exec producer but didn't direct the film, IMHO a good thing. That film as it stands is damn near perfect in every way and so exquisitely true to the great novel.

And Meryl ultimately fired her longtime agent Sam Cohn over losing the role though she was obviously smart enough to keep making nice with Mike.