The One and Only Blanche

Better Anthony: Nickolas Grace (1981) or Joseph Beattie (2008)?

Nickolas Grace was brilliant in this role. Is it even worth watching Joseph Beattie? I never understood why they remade it.

As usual the original surpasses the silly remake.

DL ICON. We should get candles made up with his face on them.

Two for you.....and twoooo for me.......yum, yum.

Down the little red lane they goo.

If you knew anything of sexual psychology, you would know that nothing could give me keener pleasure than to be m-m-m-manhandled by you meaty boys.

I never saw the miniseries but I read the book a year ago (because it was discussed on DL). I didn't really get it. Why did he switch from being in love with the brother to being in love with the sister? Was he just in love with the family and their lifestyle? There were parts I liked and I enjoyed the feelings or the ambiance it evoked, but I just didn't get it. Please DL, help me with this.

Because the book is semi-autobiographical, R8, and the writer, Evelin Waugh was a closeted, Catholic, homosexual. There was only one way for him to resolve this: Marry the sister, close your eyes, and think of Sebastian.

^ Evelyn Waugh, oh Dear.

If you haven't read the biography "Brian Howard: Portrait of a Failure", the man upon whom Antony Blanche was based, then you should run out and buy it! You should be ashamed to wear your caftan if you haven't already. To have been rich at Oxford in the '20s, and to have gone off to Germany to sleep around with tons of sexy German guys, sigh, what I wouldn't have done for that opportunity.

Brian on the right in the picture, with his German toyboy Toni on the left.

Anthony Blanche most certainly was a proto-DLer!

R9 You have a said a few correct things amongst your errors.

He acknowledged he performed homosexual acts in his younger years. And he acknowledged he was in love.

But he changed with the years. Just as we change with the years.

Like Augustinus, R9. And that was not a good thing for us. Not that Waugh hated the homosexuals.

R13 Waugh suddenly went straight?

[quote] suddenly

No not suddenly. He had to go out and get a job. He hated it. His father helped, but he couldn’t help too much. His older brother was much more successful (he wrote a racy novelette which may or may not have included schoolboy sweethearts). And then Evelyn got involved in the Cocktail-Party, Small-Talk Set‚—

R11, Waugh claimed that Anthony Blanche was based more on Harold Acton than on Brian Howard.

Alistair Graham was in love with Evelyn Waugh when they were at Oxford and had sex numerous times. Alistair wanted Evelyn and sent him this picture of himself.

Damn I remember this. Watched the whole series back when it came out on a shitty old ten buck TV in my trailer. Had to constantly keep adjusting the thing with a screwdriver stuck in the back on the TV to stop the picture from rolling.

Got to this especially gorgeous scene and I was so entranced by the naked beauty of both Charles and Sebastian on the roof that I let the screwdriver touch the high voltage section at the back of the tube - threw me across the room with a hell of a bang

And it's always a frau that ruins the moment!

Cordelia, the girl in the scene at R19, is played by Phoebe Nicholls who some may known from Downton Abbey.

Fun Fact: Howard Acton left his Florence Villa to NYU for reasons I never understood.

Plovers eggs on a bed of moss would go down a treat at my next candle light supper.

R11, I had never heard of Brian Howard, and spent a while this afternoon reading about him...sounds fascinating. I just ordered the book (was a bit surprised to find that it was over $200). I'm looking forward to enjoying it soon. Thanks for the recommendation.

Omg

[quote] Omg

Dyatlov right?

[quote] “It is a kind of love that comes to children before they know its meaning. In England it comes when you are almost men; I think I like that. It is better to have that kind of love for another boy than for a girl.”

[quote] “When people hate with all that energy, it is something in themselves they are hating.”

It is odd that the two social outsiders the homosexual Antony Blanche, and prostitute Cara (cannot recall her married name) see things so clearly and try to warn Charles Ryder. But alas he just does not catch on very quickly.

Cara and Anthony knew Sebastian was on his way to be coming a dipsomaniac and likely gay. They also knew despite the close feelings Charles had for Sebastian it just wasn't exactly the same. Cara knows she wouldn't offend Charles by telling him that a young man having love for another at first is fine, "long as it doesn't go on too long".

Each time Charles gets into the deep end with one of the Marchmain brood it's Anthony that surfaces to bring him down to earth with dire warnings. Anthony Blanche went to Charles Ryder's art show then whisked him away to a "pansy bar" for "several hours of well reasoned abuse" because he heard the gossip about Julia Marchmain, and once again Anthony knows that Charles if fooling himself. It won't work and will end in tears for someone.

R29 here...

*Is* fooling himself.

Sorry and carry on

R8 & R9

Brideshead Revisited is about a lonely man's search for love and beauty. It is also a story of one man's journey to becoming Roman Catholic.

Charles Ryder is a lonely young man who longs to find beauty and love. He is first attracted to Lord Sebastian's physical beauty, then upon seeing his new friend's rooms at Oxford even more enthralled. Sebastian Flyte opens up an entire world of beauty that hitherto Charles Ryder never experienced. The coup de grâce is when Charles is invited to Brideshead and given a tour (rather reluctantly at first) by Sebastian of his home. Charles Ryder once again is in love with all the beautiful things including the Marchmain's chapel.

Through his friendship with Sebastain Charles is exposed to more beautiful things and channels his love of such into art (the paintings he does in one of the rooms at Brideshead). But there is a darker side to Mr. Ryder.

Charles Ryder doesn't like to confront or even acknowledge things he finds unpleasant. When first Anthony Blanche then his cousin Jasper try to counsel and warn CR about his relationship with Sebastian, the Marchmain family, in case of Jasper being around Anthony Blanche, Charles will hear none of it. CR also does not wish to confront fact his friend Sebastian is ill, very ill in ways he nor anyone else can help. Worse this illness is leading Sebastian to become a drunkard. Charles doesn't like Lady Marchmain's way of dealing with her son's illness so he gives him money contravening orders given by Sebastian's mother.

Charles Ryder is in love with the Marchmain family, their home and lives, but hovering around all of that is their religion. Charles tries to ignore or get around it, but Catholicism is so woven into the Flyte's lives that neither they nor increasingly Charles Ryder can avoid.

CR couldn't cope with a wife who constantly fooled around on him, so he packed up and went away. On journey back to England he meets Julia which restarts that love affair with Sebastian et al because Julia is so much like her brother. CR doesn't want to hear when Anthony Blanche warns him that all of London knows about himself and Julia. In his quest for finding love and beauty Charles Ryder corrupts Julia, forcing her to choose between religion and her place in society and he.

This almost works until Lord Marchmain shows up to die in his own home. Charles again doesn't want to deal with the unpleasantness of what are Flyte family decisions (when or if to send for a priest when Lord Marchmain is going to have last rites), but never the less inserts himself into things. In the end God, religion or whatever you want to call it wins. Lord Marchmain reconciles with God and dies. Julia comes to her senses, realizes her sins and breaks off with Charles. The one thing left CR is the beauty, love and solace of Roman Catholic church.

Interesting analysis, r31. I never noticed that Blanche makes an appearance whenever Charles gets drawn in too closely to Sebastian and his family.

Anthony Blanche started out as the biggest flake of them all, but by the end of the novel/series he was the only one with his head screwed on right.

Thanks R31, good roundup. Must watch this series again on a decent telly

Thanks everyone, especially R31. I totally forgot that Charles was married (and had kids, right?). So I did *kind of* get it when I read it, but not completely.

Can we have a datalounge book club? I'm not a fast reader though.

The actor who played Anthony — Nickolas Grace — had an affair with Alan Bates. He also had an affair with Peter Wyngarde, a 1960s-1970s actor who was a bit of a foppish dandy with his pompadour hair and lacy shirts.

[quote] the two social outsiders the homosexual Antony Blanche, and prostitute Cara

Cara was not a prostitution whore! She was Lord Marchmain’s MISTRESS. There’s a difference.

R37

Same genus but different species.

Mrs. Cara Hicks wasn't with Lord Marchmain because she was his "friend", and mistresses are just as much prostitutes as common street walkers. One just gets their money at once, the other is on a long term contract.

Am sure there are now and in past purely chaste relationships where a man gives money to a woman or other man for merely pleasure of their company or friendship, but Cara Hicks was not that sort of situation. In fact she's rather bowled over how nice Lord Marchmain's children receive her at Brideshead, especially Julia and Cordelia.

We know Cara's status instantly when she tells Charles Ryder that she keeps Lady Marchmain away from her husband. The great pious Teresa Marchmain would never set foot under same roof or otherwise come into contact with women like *that*, so she remains in England away from her husband, whilst he firmly remains on the continent.

Will give you that Cara Hicks occupies a more exalted position than common prostitutes. When Charles and Sebastian are busted for being in an automobile accident with "tarts" Julia next day at luncheon has all sorts of questions about the "Old Hundreds" and the two whores, but Sebastian shoots her down with "now don't be prurient".

The other main "loose woman" in Brideshead Revisited is Rex Mottram's lover Mrs. Brenda Champion. There we have another married woman carrying on an adulterous affair, but Mrs. Champion seems to have plenty of her own money while Rex then decidedly does not. It's just another case of a young man taking up with an experienced (and well off) older woman. Mrs. Champion's morals are what Lady Marchmain and Julia Flyte despise, also in latter case Lady Julia is in love with Rex but he's fucking "that old woman".

If anyone cares to read BR is online, see link below.

Alan Bates was so worried about being outed he made Nickolas Grace hide under backseat of car if they were out travelling together.

Alan Bates also dropped his male lovers rather quickly and callously when things got too heavy. "It's been very nice to have known you. I'm sure I'll see you around in London," he told a desolate Grace. With that their relationship was over, period.

I tried several times to read Harold Acton's "Memoirs of an Aesthete", but just couldn't get into it. I guess I'm not sophisticated enough.

Evelyn Waugh was a vile cunt. Brideshead was fun to look at (great soundtrack) but is a pretty shitty story. Ryder is a social climber and the Flytes are a band of bores.

Evelyn Waugh in many ways was a nasty piece of work, this included towards his own family.

Most famous incident is the "banana story".....

Long story short Mrs. Waugh managed to procure three bananas during WWII time (a rare treat for war time Great Britain). Upon bringing them home Evelyn Waugh took all three pieces of fruit, unpeeled them into a dish, added cream and sugar and ate entire lot in front of his children.

Waugh's nastiness was legendary and he directed it toward members of his own family, including his brother Alec, whom he constantly bashed for writing about his male romances.

His son Auberon was an even bigger cunt, without a shred of Daddy's talent.

"Vile Bodies" is an interesting look at the 1920s in England and "Handful of Dust" has its moments, but the general Waugh theme is Awful People Are Taking Over Oh Heavens They're All So Frightfully Racially Impure, and a very little of that shit goes an awfully long way.

[quote] Evelyn Waugh was a vile cunt.

He too should be a patron saint of this site.

[quote] Cara was not a prostitution whore! She was Lord Marchmain’s MISTRESS. There’s a difference.

Whatever.

[quote] Awful People Are Taking Over Oh Heavens They're All So Frightfully Racially Impure

So he was a DLer before his time?

Charles, IIRC, came from a male world. His mother was dead. He lived with his father, who was uninterested in him, and went to private schools all his life, which were 100% male. He was from what was considered a middle class family by the aristos in the UK, so he didn’t have a childhood filled with balls (dances), galas, picnics, country weekends where he mingled with females. His overall life was dull and unexciting.

When he goes to Oxford he is somewhat dazzled by the beautiful, carefree young aristo men — bright young things — who are all related to politicians, bishops, generals, royals. They have money & power; they are going to waltz right into the high echelons of society where they will be safe & protected all their lives. Even men who are obviously working against their own country are treated like gold because they are “the right sort.” . They’re secure in their social positions & know they can get away with being traitors.

Charles walks into the Flyte family and finds there are a lot of females. Sebastian’s mother, his 2 sisters, his nanny. There is dinnertime conversation, parties, a beautiful home, an annoying brother who is a target for everyone. There is exoticism — they’re Catholics. Remember, Catholics were persona non grata since the time of Henry VIII. They were publicly executed, had lands & titles taken away from them, had “priest holes” in their houses. It is all so dramatic — why not just convert & make it easy on oneself? But they don’t. They insist on remaining different. They’ve been The Enemy — more than Jews in the UK were — for centuries. They’re stubborn & wedded to ancient rituals from a dead Mediterranean empire.

I think Charles, like all young Englishmen of his generation who attended school, had sex with other boys because that’s what you did. It was fun & fulfilling. And there weren’t any females around. I think Charles was attracted to the femininity of the Flyte household and to the Catholic religion where men dressed in gold gowns and wore jewels, scenting buildings with fragrant incense. It’s colorful and sensual atmosphere. He’s enchanted by it.

I don’t think Charles ever thought of pussy before stepping foot into Brideshead. Think about the very name — Brideshead, which is like “maidenhead,” which is a hymen. Charles loses his cherry several times at Brideshead

Art, beauty, exoticism & brightness all attract Charles Ryder. But they never satisfy him.

R39

[quote]Alan Bates was so worried about being outed he made Nickolas Grace hide under backseat of car if they were out travelling together.

Alan Bates also dropped his male lovers rather quickly and callously when things got too heavy. "It's been very nice to have known you. I'm sure I'll see you around in London," he told a desolate Grace. With that their relationship was over, period.

Man what an asshole!

Indeed, R48. Fuck Alan Bates! I never thought he was all that anyway.

[quote] Alan Bates also dropped his male lovers rather quickly and callously when things got too heavy. "It's been very nice to have known you. I'm sure I'll see you around in London," he told a desolate Grace.

It’s better than just having ghosted Grace. At least there was some closure, quick and cruel though it was.

[36] Peter Wyngarde was appearing in The King and I in the West End (I think Sally Anne Howes was Mrs. Anna). Following a Sunday matinee, he was travelling somewhere North, and was arrested for propositioning a police officer in a motorway rest area. It was "quelle scandal" in London.

R51

"Petunia Winegum" had more than one run in with the law caused by indiscreet liaisons.

More dirt is dished....

So I rewatched this, thinking perhaps age and wisdom woukd jake me understand what’s so wonderful about this story.

It’s filmed well. The people are pretty or suitably ugly, like Mr Samgrass.

But why should I care about Sebastian? Julia calls him a bore because ge insists on getting drunk for no reason. She’s right. Sebastian could be gay if he wanted to be. Everyone knows he & Charles are fucking and they don’t care. Anthony Blanche is gay. Many sons of the aristocracy either married beards and/or went iff to paint somewhere.

Why should we care about Sebastian? He’s got nothing going for him. He snuggled a teddy bear at university & everyone went all “How cute! How clever!” That’s about it for Sebastian. He’s not clever, he’s not artistic, he’s not original. He’s spoiled.

Charles is attracted to beauty but he doesn’t enjoy it. He likes to watch, like Chance the Gardener does. He has some talent, unlike every other character in the story. He paints pretty pictures in the houses of the ultra wealthy. He marries a rich, titled woman so he can fit in better with the aristo set. He fucks Julia because she reminds him of his first love.

What’s the point? Cordelia literally throws her life away to follow her weak brother around because....he’s like Jesus? And in the end, Lord Marchmain sows his wild oats & comes home only at the end of his life to claim his soul is saved and to die.

R54

There was absolutely no vice between Charles and Sebastian, at least not where anyone in Marchmain family could know or whatever.

Do you really think the great pious Teresa Marchmain, who worshiped the masculinity of her dead three brothers would countenance a "man like that" in her home, much less with free access to her son?

Brideshead point blank asks Charles Ryder expressly if there was "no vice" in the relationship between Sebastian and the German he's living with, Kurt.

Whatever Charles Ryder may or may have not gotten up to at school by time he arrives at college he's straight as any Englishman at that time. His love for Sebastian is exactly as Cara Hicks described; a crush on another man that is perfectly fine, long as it doesn't continue too long.

What Cara meant by that remark was that long as things remained at the intense love phase, and didn't go any further, as in physical homosexual acts.

It's rather like situation from film Maurice with that character strongly "in love" and physically attracted to his friend Clive. The latter OTOH wants no part really of gay sex or even deeply intimate male to male contact. He tries to bring himself to it, but just cannot cross that divide. A bit of cuddling is fine, but that's far as it goes.

As in film Maurice if Sebastian and Charles had been up to something one or more of servants would have known. They were everywhere then in great or even medium sized houses and frequently put two and two together rather quickly. Just as Clive and Maurice were caught by that butler having a cuddle, and same warned Alec Scudder to keep away from Maurice Hall.