Reparations — Today from NPR Code Switch

13:40 they visit Wall Street’s slave market memorial: particularly touching.

Erika Alexander should be a new DL icon.

Reparations: The Big Payback is the podcast.

I’m for it, but only for the descendants of slaves. We don’t owe anybody else anything.

Slavery, rape, lynching... those things happened to other people at other times... and long, long ago. I can't be blamed for my slave owner ancestors any more than blacks can get a check for what happened to theirs.

And if you're a crack-smoking dropout welfare queen with 6 kids- how can you 'trace' that to 100-200 years ago?

They've already received 'reparations': because their ancestors were brought over here 200 years ago, their descendants live in the best country in the world- where you are the architect of your own lives and anything is possible. Thanks, great-great-great grandma!

I ain’t paying BIPOCs shit

Get a job

I thought putting in a three hour workday was reparations.

This thread will end in tears.

REPUBLICANS TAKE BACK THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE !!!!

TRUMP WINS 2024 ELECTION IN LANDSLIDE !!!!

How the fuck would you reasonably administer reparations? DNA ancestry test said my husband is 1% sub-Saharan African. Does he get reparations? What about people who are middle class or above? What about people like Dolezal that identify as black?

I would be ok with reparations for moderate-to-low income minorities but with provisos attached, like first you need to graduate from a financial management course and have no violent crime convictions. But of course courts would find a way to strike down such provisos.

What about free college, healthcare and additional social security payments for low-income minorities? I could see that being more practical to manage.

THIS is the kind of nonsense that will GUARANTEE putting Donald Trump back in the White House for 4 more years, and facilitate the end of the government as we have known it. It's pure gold for the Fox News agitprop ministry.

This is why blacks will never evolve and be in charge of their own destinies. They are totally dependent on whites for everything, and always looking for handouts. They're a dependent race, always have been and always will be. They want a big fat check for shit that was abolished over 150 years ago.

Donald Trump will never be "back in the White House," you MARYS!!!!!!!!!

R12 You are correct sir. It's only a blame game.

Sure, let's do it...

As soon as I and millions of other gay men and women receive our own. And as soon as the Social Security Administration pays me for my dead partners benefits which I should have received in 1996 when he died of AIDS, yet I had nothing because we were not allowed to get married.

So, absolutely. Let us all receive our reparations. They are long overdue. Oh, and I assume those of us receiving them are still alive. Right?

It would be worth a trillion dollars just to have this particular discussion end once and forever.

We can start by taking away some of the corporate tax breaks/reparations from the 1%. Even a 'level playing field' would be better than what we have now.

R16 the blame game will NEVER end, even with a trillion dollars. Wherever you go, there you are.

R12 unfair and racist. the ONLY thing we can draw from this is that THIS AUTHOR is lazy and entitled--completely bonkers to write off an entire race (such that "race" exists, which it only does culturally, and in this case is actually unhelpful but whatever) because one--or even more--lunatics get a platform. The problem isn't our fellow Americans, it's woke excess at NPR et. al.

Sorry r19 the truth can be a real bitch sometimes.

What about us Latinos? What the hell do we have to do with what gringos did to black people centuries ago?

This is NOT a good idea for several reasons:

- If anyone deserves reparations, it is Native Americans. They come first in the queue.

- Most Americans today do not have ancestors who owned slaves nor fought on either side of the Civil War. The great migration from Europe (1850-1920) dwarfed the population of the Old South. Even those who have ancestors from that time, how do we differentiate whose ancestors fought and died for the Union. What about abolitionists or those who helped runaway slaves?

- While Jim Crow is problematic, many Americans today were born after 1964. So, I don't see how they are responsible for creating structural inequities. Moreover, during Jim Crow, many white Americans fought and litigated apartheid laws.

- The most important reason: It's STUPID. It is almost guaranteed to hand the white vote to Republicans for generations, plus nice chunks of the Latino and Asian vote. However, in the right-wing hate machine's hands, the issue will morph into a racist hot button repeatedly played on their media outlets.

I understand that African-Americans have not had a chance to accumulate equity; neither did immigrants nor most whites.

"Reparations? They'll just spend it on dope."

The number of whites who were slaveowners was only a fraction of the total white population.

[quote]I understand that African-Americans have not had a chance to accumulate equity; neither did immigrants nor most whites.

Irish, Italians and Jews were treated like dogshit. Nobody gave them handouts, they had to build their own businesses and work their asses to the ground to be successful in America.

I'm down. But I think Irish and Italian descendants needs some $$$ too, albeit a smaller amount. (But not Jersey Italians. They've done enough damage) Ditto Chinese descendants of rail workers. Hell, all Chinese. They have cool little towns. All Mexicans and Native Americans of course. Germans owe us money - for reasons well aware to them. Vietnamese don't get a dime, but the Hmong should at least get free haircuts. A more complete list is pending...

And of course, once reparations happen: No more racial excuses for anything. Ever again. Like I love Trevor Noah and Samantha Bee, but they will have to massively reconstruct both of their shows. Race can't be a topic.

When do Jews get slavery reparations?

Well, if reparations do go through then that should be the end. No more bitching and complaining, ever again. The issue is settled, it's over.

THIS ISSUE WILL NEVER END. EVER. It doesn’t matter what is done. It will never end.

What about:

- [quote]Latinos of Mexican descent[/quote], we deserve to get Texas, AZ, NM, and Cali back. Everyone living there can pay us rent.

-[quote]Arab-Americans[/quote] - too many injustices to count. Let's start with the Iranians dispossessed when Carter pulled a "high-moral ground" Real Politick move and withdrew support for the Shah.

- I don't even know how we'll sort the [quote]Afghanis[/quote] out. I'm sure they deserve something, just who and how much?

- [quote]Cubans! [/quote]Yes, Cubans. Kennedy withdrew air support from the Bay of Pigs and then agreed to let Cuba remain Communist. What about Cuban exiles who arrived in this country with nothing but the clothes on their backs. We want the inflation-adjusted value of our expropriated properties.

- Finally [quote]WOMEN.[/quote] We have been cleaning houses since colonial times. I suggest an emergency # like 911 for women, where they can obtain a man to clean their house, for free, on-demand.

“White Americans”....I’m Mexican American. My family wasn’t even living here during the Civil War and all that Antebellum shit. My family lived in California for my entire life. African American slavery and segregation weren’t even a thing. Does this mean being brown makes me and my family exempt from paying??

I’m 1/16 Native American. I want all you fuckers out of here - white, black, Jew, Asian - all who came and decided to steal our land with a gun used as a negotiating tool. When we get all of our land back, and you are all gone, then let’s talk reparations.

Isn’t Stevie Wonder leaving for Ghana? Why can’t he take them all back with him?

The BIPOCs see an opportunity to get free shit from whitey...everybody wants free shit. Who can blame them? If I was a position to guilt whitey into giving me free shit, then the absolute cherry on top would be white guilt. Free shit and to see your enemies unnecessary self flagellation!

[quote]Isn’t Stevie Wonder leaving for Ghana? Why can’t he take them all back with him?

I think many people would secretly love this, although they would never admit to it.

[quote] Slavery, rape, lynching... those things happened to other people at other times... and long, long ago. I can't be blamed for my slave owner ancestors any more than blacks can get a check for what happened to theirs.

You’re an idiot. The country your fat ass is sitting in was built by slaves. The US government owes their families. Germany paid for what they did to Jews and their descendants through reparations. Sit down, lousy food for nothing cracker.

R34 needs to get Covid and die. Do the world a favor.

Um, we’re not for this.

Back to work and the library! See ya.

[quote] I’m 1/16 Native American.

You’re also an Indian Princess.

[quote] The BIPOCs see an opportunity to get free shit from whitey...everybody wants free shit.

F&F. Muriel, flush this faggot.

[quote] “White Americans”....I’m Mexican American. My family wasn’t even living here during the Civil War and all that Antebellum shit. My family lived in California for my entire life. African American slavery and segregation weren’t even a thing. Does this mean being brown makes me and my family exempt from paying??

It’s the US government that owes them, moron. You live in a country built by slaves for nothing.

[quote] When do Jews get slavery reparations?

America didn’t enslave Jews and they were paid reparations by Germany. Any other moronic comments you care to make?

What about the Vietnam War? America should pay them reparations.

Knowing the Vietnamese, however, they won’t accept it. Honor, etc.

Please explain how the country was built by slaves.

What exactly was built by slaves?

[quote]The country your fat ass is sitting in was built by slaves.

Not on the East Coast, honey. That was all done by micks and wops.

One way. Just fucking NOTICE incidents of white privilege that we never noticed before. I could give an example but you mainly rascist jerks don’t care

Polacks and Micks built Chicago.

Re “building” something of value (America, etc.).

The most value in anything of economic value is created by its design. The mind finds ways to create value, and labor executes.

Value creation is minimal at the level of labor. Apple realizes the greatest return from anything having to do with the iPhone’s manufacture because it designed the thing. The assembler earns far less because its contribution is miniscule compared to the product’s designer. Apple “built” the iPhone — not a Foxconn employee assembler.

The management of labor is more complex than the labor itself: that’s why managers earn more than labor.

Extrapolate.

[quote]This is why blacks will never evolve and be in charge of their own destinies. They are totally dependent on whites for everything, and always looking for handouts. They're a dependent race, always have been and always will be. They want a big fat check for shit that was abolished over 150 years ago.

They?

Yes, let’s classify people of a specific race as one homogeneous group, all people of any given race or ethnicity are exactly the same.

I'll think about these reparations when China pays us for killing millions across the planet with their diseases.

Or, "How To Lose A Mid-Term Election in Three Easy Lessons"

What does The Big Kamala have to say on this burning issue?

If we don't want to give reparations, can we buy them a one way ticket to where their enslaved ancestors came from?

r26, you've omitted the Japanese Americans who were put into interment camps during WWII- that was pure racism.

lmao all the triggered DL bigots gathered in this thread. Not shocking.

R53, they technically did get reparation via Reagan, I believe.

The US never had a full reckoning moment to properly address slavery and its devastating effects on black people. Instead it sanctioned inequality that included among other things, Jim Crow laws. Post WW2 economic boom disguised much of the socioeconomic gap between black and white Americans. It wasn’t until the Civil Rights movement in the 60s that Americans were truly confronted with entrenched racism.

Unfortunately, many of the social welfare programs that were enacted as a way to address inequality and poverty indirectly and inadvertently made large number of black Americans essentially wards of the state. Absentee fathers and out of wedlock births are just some of the results of governmental assistance programs edging black men out of families. So-called liberals equated welfare programs with social justice and racial equality. Black people were encouraged to be dependent on PTB’s giving handouts instead of striving for a place at the table. The state of many black communities today shares blame all around, from well-meaning liberals and their social welfare programs to entrenched victim mentality in much of black America.

Go read Thomas Sowell, I don’t agree with everything he says (I’m more liberal) but for the most part he breaks these complex issues down in salient arguments based upon facts. His economic arguments are in line with classical liberalism.

Hey, if you are doing Reparations for blacks generations down the line, as someone who is part Native American shouldn't you start with us? We don't all live on reservations or own casinos you know. We got screwed out of that land deal big time! 90% of us dead from the White Man's Smallpox Blankets. AKA early chem warfare.

[quote]Not on the East Coast, honey. That was all done by micks and wops.

Translation, the Irish and the Italians were the working class slaves of the time. Little Italy was considered a ghetto back in time, not some tourist destination for good Italian food.

My ancestors weren’t even HERE back then. GTFO.

2024 is going to be very interesting. There's a surprisingly large amount of young people who hold Republican and conservative-leaning views due to having grown up in a world taken over by wokeness. And most of those people will be of voting age by then. The late 2020's and 2030's are going to be a very interesting time politically in general because the generations that grew up on the internet and grew up in the world of cancel culture, wokeness, and navigating the plethora of change and buzzwords will be politically involved adults by then. And whether it be for better or for worse, they will change the political landscape of America forever. Whether it be a left-skewed change or a right-skewed change I can not say.

Anyone who is currently, or formerly a slave who is still alive, by all means, should be given reparations. Other than that, total bullshit.

Reparations should just be taxes explicitly applied to cops and those who work in the legal industry. Black people claim that THAT'S their main source of oppression and suffering, the cops and the legal system. And that's fine. Tax police officers, judges, lawyers, correctional officers, etc. Don't tax random white people who have nothing to do with the "structural racism" black people face. A white 24 year old who works as a waiter at Olive Garden has nothing to do with "the struggle".

If they limit reparations to the people who actually play a hand in systemic oppression of black people, then fine, I'm all for them. But if they start billing random people who have absolutely nothing to do with shit like mass incarceration or police brutality then I'll be inclined to start voting Republican.

I have noticed that black Americans who have done well in school, managed to further their education and behaved like a civilized human being have quite often done very well for themselves. I know a number of them. No gang-bangin' or any of that shit.

Same goes for whites, actually.

Don’t let the race industry take over the conversation about social justice and inequality. Instead of doable solutions and honest dialogue, the race industry serves other interests, not in promoting harmonious coexistence between races. There’s money and power to be gained from racial tensions. In the past we had hucksters like Al Sharpton, but now we have selected media-sanctioned mouthpieces who, while sounding more intelligent than the likes of Sharpton, are nevertheless cut from the same inflammatory, divisive cloth where opinions and feelings matter more than facts and real solutions.

Easier to discuss race than class, which is the real issue in the US.

I'd be fine with it if it meant the country collectively could finally move on. I doubt that will happen though, and it's largely due to exactly those activists who are pushing for reparations. They'll get their cash, and then they'll double down on race grievance at a point in American history when we need to focus on just about everything other than race. Income inequality, crumbling infrastructure, climate change, the impending economic disaster. All those issues transcend race, and I don't think it's a coincidence that the activist/academic class is focusing on race instead.

For how many future generations should taxpayers be paying reparations? Only pay for it if we end all public housing and other govt hand outs or deduct its value from a recipient's payout check.

[quote]They'll get their cash, and then they'll double down on race grievance at a point in American history when we need to focus on just about everything other than race. Income inequality, crumbling infrastructure, climate change, the impending economic disaster. All those issues transcend race.

Income inequality is a MAJOR racial issue.

Crumbling infrastructure is a racial issue, it disproportionately affects black people. The water crisis in Flint. The *current* water crisis in Jackson, MS, which SURPRISE, is getting almost no press coverage, because it affects poor black people. Crumbling infrastructure gets fixed first in white areas. It's been this way forever. Redlining. Speaking of that, reparations goes WAY past slavery, so all this "well *my* ancestors didn't...." bullshit can go away. Reparations can fix things that still go on today. Like banks that still have a "discretion" rule about loans, so if a white person and a black person have the same money situation, the loan officer can use their "discretion" and not give a loan to a black person, for a home, or for a business. There are so many dumb fucking roadblocks that racist assholes will put up to Leo black people "in their place". I've heard with my own ears. Overhearing a white business owner tell his buddies that he's friends with a banker, & told that banker not to give a loan to a black man who wanted to open a BBQ joint next to his business. Said he wanted to keep the neighborhood "nice", & the banker agreed & didn't give the black guy the loan. It's white people wheeling & dealing to keep black people out.

Climate change is a racial issue too. The poorest, blackest areas are affected by these freak storms that cause deep freeze in Texas, flooding in New Orleans, because why? Infrastructure (SEE ABOVE) fails in the areas where it's not maintained.

I'm just gonna say this, black struggle is queer struggle. We've had similar paths. Which is why the amount of nose-in-the-air white gays on this board is astounding. Wake up.

I'll be watching the mail for my check.

[quote]Translation, the Irish and the Italians were the working class slaves of the time.

And you know what? They fucking got over it and moved on with their lives.

[Quote]Irish, Italians and Jews were treated like dogshit. Nobody gave them handouts, they had to build their own businesses and work their asses to the ground to be successful in America.

R25 They were also allowed to become WHITE. They were never enslaved or legally segregated in the United States, unlike the Blacks. Even successful Blacks before the Civil Rights Act of 1965 had to struggle with the restrictions of both de facto and de jure segregation.

The descendants of European immigrants were, after a time, allowed to blend in with the already established mainstream American society. Blacks were, after the same amount of time or more, still not allowed to blend in. The result is the economic disparity one still sees between those two groups in today's society.

Since many African Americans were denied jobs and housing in mainstream corporations and neighborhoods for so long I think reparations should take the form of reduced interest for housing and small business loans, along with increased access to scholarships.

Because Blacks were limited to less desirable neighborhoods many weren't able to build up generational wealth by passing those houses or proceeds from the sales of houses, onto heirs.

R17- There were PLENTY of neighborhoods that Jews and even Catholics were NOT allowed to live in up until the 1940's. After World war 2 things started to change.

There were neighborhoods in NYC that only allowed Native Born White Protestants only - Forest Hills Queens- when it was first developed.

I meant R71

How about we just help all people including Native Americans not be poor? Nobody alive today had anything to do with that but we can learn from it, end racism, not tolerate racism and create a world of peace where people get along. I'm not sure how giving money to rich people is going to help that but we can eliminate costs for education and make sure everyone has a true leg to stand on and a way to live comfortably in this world.

[quote]There were PLENTY of neighborhoods that Jews and even Catholics were NOT allowed to live in up until the 1940's. After World war 2 things started to change.

They were still acting like Jews were a problem on Golden Girls in 1988.

Reparations can come out of the pockets of Oprah Winfrey, Robert F. Smith, Michael Jordan, Sean Combs, Beyonce, Diana Ross, Barack and Michelle Obama, Tyler Perry and all the other uber-rich black people in the US.

A lot of neighborhoods weren't desegregated until the 1960s and after. I'm from San Francisco and in the early 1960s a Chinese family tried to buy in our neighborhood and a bunch of families got together and influenced the homeowner not to sell to them. My father would not join in, he was disgusted. We were raised to appreciate diversity, not to fear it.

By the late 60s so much had changed. Families once confined to Chinatown, for example, were able to buy anywhere they wanted. Around that time and after, Chinese immigration laws were relaxed and we saw an influx of wealthy Chinese from Hong Kong ahead of Britain losing the HK back to the Chinese. That was an interesting period. many immigrants come here poor but many of the Chinese after the late 60s were very wealthy. It was a hard adjustment for many people since real estate prices started to rise.

One thing I've learned from living with diverse populations is that we're all nuts in some way along with being exactly the same in many ways.

They have been receiving reparations for years, it's now called welfare.

People look at race way too much. We ought to not ask what race people are and go from there.

The rich blacks, what's the first thing they do...of course, move into a white gated community...none of that inner city nonsense for them. Oh, if it's a rich black male, the first thing he does is to seek out white woman, then the gated community.

R76- Bonnie Bartlett is FAR better known as Mrs. Ellen Craig on St Elsewhere but this being a GAY site the queens here only talk about her ONE episode Golden Girls appearance as BARBARA THORNDIKE.

R76- Don't you think Barbara Thorndike would have gotten along EXTREMELY well with that midwestern bitch- Beth Jarrett.

R81 do white women have tighter pussies than black women?

I can’t imagine the crime and murder rates within the black community if reparations happen. Astronomical.

Look. It isn't just slavery. It is the systemic racism that has been government policy ever since the post-reconstruction. Everything: Healthcare, nutrition, housing, education, employment, etc., etc., etc.

[quote] Families once confined to Chinatown

The Chinatown in my city used to be just one street in the 1960s.

Now Chinatown occupies half the CBD.

"The *current* water crisis in Jackson, MS, which SURPRISE, is getting almost no press coverage..."

R68, I agree that may have been the case even five years ago RE race issues not being covered in the media.

Now? It's all that's covered. My NRP station here in LA, just had on the mayor of Jackson MS to discuss the water issue. That was followed by an update on how Covid disproportionally affects black people. And then a segment on how cookbooks during Covid flew off the shelf: Especially those written by black chefs.

All of which I am more than fine with! But it's time we update our collective realities like the media doesn't focus on or write about black stories. They do. And it's great.

Now on to the next thing...

[quote]Well, if reparations do go through then that should be the end. No more bitching and complaining, ever again. The issue is settled, it's over.

And this is a problem. Many whites will see reparations as a one-off payment to blacks, that will serve in their eyes to wash away the smell of racism for good and close the door on any further work on the topic. And we all know it's much deeper and more complex than that.

"Reparations" aren't about one-time payments. It's a fuller, on-going support for a matrix of tangible and non-tangible items, that can serve to level the field between the races and help repair strained and stressed social, political and inter-personal relations. Things like free or reduced-cost health and dental care, free higher education perhaps in the form of free community college or state university. Someone mentioned enhanced social security payments. These would benefit the less privileged in the black community and help lift the field.

Also stronger laws to reduce redlining and other unfair financial practices, coupled with stronger voting rights protections would be positive for all classes of people. Housing supports, better availability and affordability. There is a long list of things that can be implemented and supported.

There's the problem of identifying who would qualify for reparations, what groups or classes of people. Do descendants of slaves who now identify as white count? What about black Americans who aren't slave descendants but are immigrant-rooted? This is challenging and consensus would be difficult - doesn't mean it shouldn't be attempted, but it would take time to formalize.

Oh and r68 did a great post (claps).