Obama says reparations 'justified'

Where the fuck is mine?

Since Obama is not descended from slaves, I'm sure he'll have no problem opening up his wallet and paying his share of "reparations".

How to lose the next election.

Obama doesn't know when to keep quiet.

Many Jewish ancestors are descendants from victims of Holocaust). Let's give Jewish people money. George Soros also survive Holocaust. Maybe the government could give him billions of dollars for reparation!

R4 agreed. Him and Hillary should should do a roadshow next. What could possibly go wrong?

Don't forget Kamala, R2: another first-generation black American (i.e. not a descendant of slaves).

R5, Germany has.

I agree, reparations are justified, but maybe it's better Obama should shut up about it at the moment. Democrats just saved to country from fascism, in part because he, Obama nominated a dodgy FBI director and he, Obama couldn't prevent Putin from meddling in elections; also the world political situation couldn't be any more precarious right now.

Just go away Obama!

The US has been making reparations via affirmative action, quota and other federal programs, policies and payments for half a century and more.

Have people missed this somehow?

R10 those dont count as the results pretty much went up in smoke

R11, really? I don't think so. There has geen a huge shift upward for the African-American population in the US on almost every level of life in the US.

R5, bad analogy. Relatives of Holocaust victims already get reparations in various forms. For example, they can be fast-tracked for German citizenship, and receive financial compensation for lost property.

Had Reconstruction been allowed to continue without being sabatoged, reparations would be a moot point. Unfortunately, white people in power were able to effectively weaponize poor whites as foot soldiers in grievance politics. They get a few crumbs and blacks, not rich whites focused on their own wealth and power, become the enemy.

[quote]The US has been making reparations via affirmative action, quota

Affirmative action is a way to circumvent bigotry, homophobia and racism. It is not reparations. Nor does it only apply to race.

[quote]and other federal programs, policies and

To circumvent bigotry, homophobia and racism?

[quote]payments for half a century and more.

Payments!?!

[quote]Many Jewish ancestors are descendants from victims of Holocaust

With all due respect, that didn't happen here. You don't wake up and walk past the house where the slave master that owned the plot of land your neighborhood was built on lived. And you're not surrounded by institutions and policies that were originally built to hurt you.

At the most a formal government apology will happen one day but anything involving money is doubtful. Not in this climate. Not for a long time. Not in this divided country.

It’s nice to get a preview of what the troll farms will be pushing down America’s throat for the next 4 yrs 😃

R14, your sophistry of vague assertions and the specter of the master's house to attempt to diminish the efforts to reverse past government policies and practices that promoted racism against the African American fails.

That is all the government can do. Wilfully ignoring the gains in the AA population on almost every measurable scale does not erase the reality of those gains and advances.

Perhaps you could explain what exactly you propose - that is legal - and wh your proposal would have an effect that other efforts have not.

[quote] You don't wake up and walk past the house where the slave master that owned the plot of land your neighborhood was built on lived.

What does this mean in real life terms? What point are you trying to make here?

[quote] And you're not surrounded by institutions and policies that were originally built to hurt you.

Like what? What today still exists to "hurt you" that was originally built to "hurt you"?

Whoa. Is R5 who I think it is? This thread is going to get real ugly, real fast.

I would be more than happy to provide reparations to all of those who were enslaved, but not their descendants three hundred years later.

always always WHAT ABOUT REPARATIONS for the american/native indian?... ...they LITERALLY were nearly wiped out, utter genocide! AND we stole their land!.... would you rather be a slave but have your LIFE still and your family for the most part, a place to live, food and live a shitty life OR would you rather NOT havea life, be dead, your family dead, land stolen and any you know who lived put on reservations, some TO THIS DAY!?!....

[quote]Perhaps you could explain what exactly you propose

The same that has been proposed in every discussion about "reparations". Money and free stuff for Black people. To the detriment of other minorities who were equally enslaved, discriminated against, persecuted, etc. R20 is but one example.

R20 raises an interesting but ignored point. Black men and women had value in American society, were a commodity of worth and communal economic importance. White women were worthless, chattel, held no value/worth for their communities and certainly no economic importance.

R10, the chief beneficiaries of affirmative action are...wait for it...WHITE WOMEN.

AKA Karen-Americans.

I agree with [R20]. Native Americans still have it bad.

R24 but that was more of a conquering, which most modern countries have in their histories. That just how the world evolved, right or wrong .

Oh dear!

Weak-willed and wrong-headed president who should have spoken up about this when he was the president, and who should have spoken up about so many things but chose to keep quiet during his presidency lest he spooked many of his corporate sponsors. Deplorable.

And if the US has to recompense all its past wrongs, there will be nothing left for American fattards to eat and 90% income taxes and corporate taxes won't be enough!!! Just ignore it - completely bonkers idea!

But it is consistent with the F=Dems completely kowtowing to anything black.

I think that indigenous people in America have asked for reparations and the results were not so good. Maybe it’s a teaching moment.

[quote]WHAT ABOUT REPARATIONS for the american/native indian?..

Actually, the government tried this decades ago and bungled it horribly but at least they tried it.

See: R29 who beat me to it.

However it's important to point out this was 1946 and it went on until 1978.

Reparations in the form of a lump payment or scheduled over a number of installments would be the absolute worst thing for anyone who thinks they're eligible, and face it, this is what reparations means to most people who do. However politically incorrect it may be to say, these funds would largely be squandered on anything but social equity (property, retirement security, education...) by those who want this money to do just that with it. Plus, many who are extending olive branches, however willingly or however begrudgingly, to lessen the racial chasm would pull their branches back as soon reparations recipients started to ask "Well what else...?". Realistically speaking, paying out reparations would be an opportunity for many supporters of the concept who are secretly fed up with the debate (and especially those who are not so secretly fed up) to reply with a you-got-what-you-wanted-now-shut-up response. I think we can all see how things would play out after that. It's utterly false, even though so many people love to say it, that America needs to have "the talk" about race because in reality this talk is going on all day, all night, all the time. If anyone wants to participate just dive in on social media, campuses, by engaging yourself any number of publications--anywhere. This talk is constant. Paying out reparations would literally cause people to feel justified enough to step out of this talk, therefore really causing a halt to the talk that America "really needs to have".

Oh r31, you know everything, do you? Black people will “squander” reparation money because they are.....black? And therefore not good with money lol? And what does it look like in your head if a black person didn’t “squander” their reparations money? Would they take it all and donate to a black history museum? Would they not spend a single penny? You sound like someone who also thinks black people are all the same. You also sound like you don’t understand the purpose of reparations. It isn’t to then reinvest in society “per se” but to adjust the actual personal wealth of individual black people who were literally a human commodity for generations — what a black person chooses to spend it on isn’t our fucking business. It’s the principle that they were robbed of generations of wealth, and it absolutely speaks to the challenges facing the black community as a whole right now.

You also have nothing to back up your assertion that racial discussion would “halt” if reparations payments were made. Prove that? What are you basing that on? I assert that we will have *better* conversations around race once black people witness their government acknowledge the wrongs and evils of the past. See, I can state an opinion as fact too?

The entire discussion on the genocide of Native Americans is real and needs to happen, but this thread is about black people in America. I am certain Obama feels the same about Native Americans.

Last but not least, Obama is adored, worshipped, revered. He can do no wrong. This is the perfect time to push this agenda because the election just finished, so his timing is perfect. Ooooo, it’s too touchy for you all? Too bad snowflakes. We aren’t worried about winning you over anymore. We are done with you — we don’t give a shit how uncomfortable this topic makes you.

R32 Apparently you are not done with us because you still want our money.

Tank the economy and install Republicans in power for decades because 14% of the population won’t stop complaining to gets its way

It’s not *your* money r33 — it’s *our* money, sweetheart. We are a government of the People, for the People, by the People. The money you pay to the government doesn’t belong to just you, and you are not the sole decision-maker. Not everyone agrees with you darling.

R34, ok? And you’re a gay man, right? Posting that shit? You want Republicans running things but expect us to believe you’re gay too lolol?

Reading comprehension, r35. The peril is that the GOP will use this to retake power and keep it.

I think we should vote on this with all the details on the table as to how it will be financed. Then I think people will realize how unworkable a concept it really is.

Why is it unworkable r37? We could “afford” a trillion dollar tax cut, but can’t afford this?

I want to call it a settlement, which implies that once paid, the issue is OVER.

Let the Dems push this non starter along and watch how their party abandons them just when the party of Romney and other anti Trumpers need to gain voters on their side. I can only support this if there is a deduction of money that has been spent on social services by the taxpayers already to offset the high cost of such a folley. Many people in NYC cost the taxpayer millions when adding up the public housing, medicaid, food stamps, and public assistance costs. It is just staggering.

I’m reminded of Cedric the Entertainer’s joke about reparations. “All it would do is make Cadillac the number one car dealership in the country”

R32 sho is uppity

And you’re garbage r42. Are you a gay man? What is your race? Education?

They should have a fine jar where whoever's convicted of a hate crime against Blacks needs to pay into the reparations account.

I've posted this before as a "solution to reparations". Immediately stop foreign aide to all homo-murdering countries, many of the same countries that established and continue the slave trade to this day. That will net about $6-8 BILLION a year. Eh voila! Plenty of money for "reparations".

R32...I'll reply just to demonstrate how you ultimately misread my post. Plenty of black supporters of reparations are against cash payments but are in favor of housing & education vouchers. Do your research. There are also many black pundits who oppose reparations for the reasons I mentioned. Again, so your research. As far as investing in black history museums, I mentioned no such thing. In fact, I did mention investing potential reparations in the things that provide actual upward social mobility (property, retirement security, education), which is actually the intended result of paying reparations. And to your point about the conversation surrounding this issue, yes, many people having it are indeed tired of obliging it, even those who are willing to participate, both black & white. So really, you misunderstood much of my post that you replied to with such hubristic ferocity. But I'm sure you do that with ideas that have any whiff of incongruity to your own.

Do people realize that after the emancipation proclamation that white slave owners were given reparations for the slaves they lost in Washington D.C.

White slave owners got reparations. Say it again. White slave owners got reparations for the property they lost after the emancipation proclamation, yet this country can't seem to get it right.

It shouldn't be a money compensation directly, it should be in the form of credit from income tax can be used over decades till paid off. This way a little comes out from everyone through the federal govement.

Slavery was the stupidest thing the settlers and early Americans ever did. All the strife in America centers around the enormous fuck-up.

Fucking lazy English morons should have imported English indentured peasants, and Hessian etc. peasants.

r48, they did.

Thomas Jefferson wrote a paragraph that was left out of the Declaration of Independence that condemned slavery and said it should be ended but was force to remove it because the southern colonies weren't going for it.

It is absolutely absurd for the Declaration of Independence to have existed stating that all men are created equal- except we still have slavery. So NOT them.

Republicans would get on board with reparations if the federal government proposed to give every black American a million dollars in exchange for renouncing their US citizenship and permanently moving to Liberia. They would justify the cost by saying police and prison expenses would be so greatly reduced that reparations would pay for themselves.

[quote] Thomas Jefferson wrote a paragraph that was left out of the Declaration of Independence that condemned slavery and said it should be ended

Yet he kept his own slaves, didn't he?

What a phony. He sure didn’t mind giving “reparations” to all the white men who crashed Wall Street. Right there he proved he doesn’t care about poor people much less poor black people.

Reparations were justified in the immediate periods after slavery had ended. I’d argue within span of 50 years after abolishing slavery. Similarly, reparations are merely tokens of apology and not meant to replace projected values for property and labor. Look no further than reparations paid to 82.000 Japanese-Americans who were interned and lost properties as a result of being branded enemies of the US in WW2. That was in 1988. Nothing close to actual numbers of deserving citizens and compensation. The main thing was formal apology attached to it.

With slavery the time has long passed and unfair as it is, it is mot feasible to quantify and qualify all the necessary factors that would go into such a compensatory package. The US has changed considerably in the past 50-60 years, we have a population with various groups of immigrants/ their descendants who weren’t part of enslavement of black people. So factors like that are difficult to figure into the overall equation.

R46, in a thread riddled with clear, transparent, overt hatred toward black people, you’ll have to excuse me for misinterpreting the tone of your post. Thank you for giving your r31 post more context on r46, your follow-up did give me clarity on where you are coming from — you and I likely see most of this issue the same. I apologize for being offensive, I definitely thought you were stating things in a way that supported some of the hatred on this thread, and I was wrong.

This is so impractical, there is no way to implement it. The discussion is being pushed by Right-Wing infiltration groups to splinter Democrats, by 2024 we might have 4-6 political parties.

[quote]With slavery the time has long passed and unfair as it is, it is mot feasible to quantify and qualify all the necessary factors that would go into such a compensatory package.

I think the easiest thing to do would be to start with a formal apology. The problem is they won't even do that.

[quote]The US has changed considerably in the past 50-60 years, we have a population with various groups of immigrants/ their descendants who weren’t part of enslavement of black people.

It wasn't that long ago. Many black people can tell you exactly which plantation their family lived on and many of them still carry their family slave master's last names.

The only real problem is by now the number of descendants would be massive.

[quote] [R48], they did.

I know, R49. I should have written: "should have imported *only* English indentured peasants, and Hessian etc. peasants."

[quote] Black men and women had value in American society, were a commodity of worth and communal economic importance.

And what benefit did the slaves derive from all of that worth and economic importance?

And they were denied a fundamental right of every human being: liberty.

This will end in tears.

It is justified but like I said, the time has long passed. If the US was a mainly white/ black nation with practically no immigration then you can make a point about it being feasible. But that’s still a stretch.

[quote] I think we should vote on this with all the details on the table as to how it will be financed. Then I think people will realize how unworkable a concept it really is.

I not too long ago roughly calculated the cost of giving each and every African-American $50,000; About $2 trillion. This is not an unimaginable sum, although I realize that with all of the additional debt accumulated just from addressing the pandemic this amount would not palatable to some (or many) at this particular time.

If it were done, a question would then arise: "Where do we go from here in regard to racial inequities?"

^^To be meaningful, it would have to be a lump sum payment, for a down payment on a house, to finance higher education, etc.

R62

Meaningful is a formal apology from the government, as was the case with Japanese Americans.

This will end in many head bobs and “Mmmmm Hmmmmmm”-s.

What a bad time to raise this issue.

R66 better than right before primaries

Of course reparations for slavery is justified. The question should be reframed in timing of reparations. It is not feasible now. We do need the government to issue formal apology, which is long overdue IMO.

100% formal apology with a zero percent student loan rate for HBCUs

I feel that they need to work on equality now. As the injustice still goes on today. Look st the police. The success of dog whistle racist politicains.

[quote]It is not feasible now.

Saying it's not "feasible" over and over again doesn't actually make it not feasible Wanda Maximoff.

^^^ then pray do tell how YOU would make it feasible, moron.

If you say "feasible" three times in a mirror, R72 will appear and scratch your eyes out.

[quote]100% formal apology with a zero percent student loan rate for HBCUs

Non black people attend HBCUs too.

This will never happen. Ever.

“Feasibility” is a very elastic concept. The U.S. spent about $6.4 trillion on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

How do you decide who gets it and who pays?

As others have said, Obama is out for sure. Ditto Kamala. I certainly should have to pay a dime - my ancestors on both sides immigrated from Ireland/Scotland and Germany from 1890 -1902. And they were deep working class until, well, me and my generation within the family.

So what would the actual plan look like?

I do like what R69 has to say. But maybe expand that to any trade school/college for black students who might not be able to get into Howard and who are eligible. Also, interest free loans to any black run small business for those eligible?

What else?

[quote]And they were denied a fundamental right of every human being: liberty.

R58 That's always the problem with looking at the world through 21st century lenses. The erroneous, blinkered assumption that liberty was denied only to Black slaves. Women, Jews, First Nation, Hispanics, etc. were also denied liberty in personal rights, movement, housing, education, and employment. Black men got the vote in 1866. Women not until 1919. Asians were barred from owning property until after WW2.

In 1789, states limited voting rights to property owning or tax paying white males (6% of population). Some states allowed Black males to vote. New Jersey included unmarried/widowed women, regardless of skin color. (source: Timeline of voting rights in the United States/Wikipedia)

In the UK, plenty of men regardless of skin color weren't able to vote either until around 1920. Please don't spread outdated myths R78

I can see where people who want reparations are coming from but it’s too late. At this point most non Trump loving white people have little or no connection to our racist ancestors. Most of us are just as broke as anyone.

[quote] Please don't spread outdated myths [R78]

What R78 is doing is making a larger point which you can’t grasp, R79. Your “corrections,” which may not be accurate themselves, do not negate this.

Not R*78,* that is.

Make Ben Affleck pay for it all. Problem solved.

R80 highlights a sad reality: Poor and middle class whites were weaponized against blacks, and they were given meager incentives for their service. Yet what do many of them have to show for it? They're still poor and undereducated, and they take offense at the implication they're better off than black people.

Systemic racism is real, and slavery was the original sin, but the reparations ship has sailed. Any and all efforts should be focused on equality for all and anti-poverty measures.

[quote]Please don't spread outdated myths

Black men received the right to vote under the 15th Amendement ratified in 1870. It's no "myth" that women, regardless of color, were not allowed to vote until 1919. Neither it is a "myth" that Jews, Asians, First Nations, Hispanics and women were and still are discriminated against in housing, education, employment, and finance.

Please take off your biased blinkers.

^^^ R79 ^^^

[quote]Don't forget Kamala, [R2]: another first-generation black American (i.e. not a descendant of slaves).

And Joy Reid. She shouldn't get shit.

R86 Please educate yourself. A lot of women were even against the 19th amendment.

Hmmmm

[quote]Please educate yourself. A lot of women were even against the 19th amendment.

R89 Irrelevant to the FACT that women were not granted universal suffrage until 1919. And even those states that allowed women to vote did so decades AFTER Black men were allowed to vote.

R91 Between 1776 and 1807, single women in New Jersey who owned property worth more than 50 pounds were allowed to vote. That was 49 years before voting rights were expanded to all white men. Please stop with the stereotype of women always being victims or do you really want to erase the strong and independent women who owned property more than 200 years ago?

R93,how does some outlier situation detract from the reality of the vast universe of how women were treated and discriminated against and dehumanized.

Is that the same with African Americans who owned slaves in the US? Does that negate the reality of slavery for AAs in the US?

R92, fascinating. So of course we're not taught that in school.

Now, where's my reparations?

R94 Men without property were discriminated against too in the past. As shown in the articles before, for quite some time only men and women who owned property were allowed to vote before all men were allowed to. Nowadays, I think it is sexist that men of any race are denied voting rights when they fail to register for selective service because this would make them felons. A lot of states don't allow felons to vote.

[quote] Black men received the right to vote under the 15th Amendement ratified in 1870.

And the South worked to negate this with Jim Crow.

Here we go. The perfect wedge issue for Republicans. Once again, Dems will fall victim to the identity politics. From CNN:

A House committee on Wednesday advanced a bill that would create a commission to study reparations for descendants of enslaved Americans, a major achievement for advocates of reparations as it marks the first time this bill would have a full House vote on the floor.

The House Judiciary Committee late Wednesday night approved H.R. 40 by a vote of 25-17. The measure proposes the creation of a federal commission to study reparations and recommend remedies for the harm caused by slavery and the discriminatory policies that followed abolition. The commission would also consider how the US would formally apologize for "perpetration of gross human rights violations and crimes against humanity on African slaves and their descendants." This legislation, however, has a very little chance of becoming law. It faces opposition from some Democrats and most Republicans and it's unlikely it will receive the 60 votes needed to break a filibuster in the Senate.

R2 encapsulates the issue, to wit: Who is actually descended from a slave?

At this late date there can be no monetary "reparations." We are talking about a gap of over 150 years; it's not like Germany's paying its blood-money reparations to Israel beginning as early as 1952.

What we can do is continue to combat racism, and convicting and incarcerating racist killer cops is a necessary step.

R4, Obama is no fan of Joe Biden. [See: Promotion of, HRC in 2016]

The Romans enslaved many different conquered peoples two thousand years ago- Greeks , Gauls( French), Jews etc- should their descendants now receive reperations from Italy .

[quote]The peril is that the GOP will use this to retake power and keep it.

Absolutely! I hope wokesters find eight years of President DeSantis worth it, cuz he'll do better than Trump did in '16 if this is in the headlines.

Give blacks their own reservation and let them open a casino. Supply plenty of bullet proof vests for black on black crime.

R103- and BLACK ON ASIAN crime

R104 if they get their own land...I'm not sure Asians would be willing to open up shop there?

Obama is NOT the descendant of slaves. His dad was a Kenyan immigrant. This should be for the descendants of slaves only. We owe Obama nothing.

This reparation is insane, Obama is insane. The "voteable" Americans are white and racist and will make us pay for this. It is better to focus on eased up voter access, make DC a state, and allow inmate to vote as reparation for blacks.

People are afraid to come out against reparations.

Instead of a check, why don't they offer just tuition assistance, help with home ownership, etc.? Watch the interest fade.

If the people affected were enslaved, then reparations are warranted. If they were not personally enslaved, then tough. And you don't have to be "white and racist" to see that. Reparations for the Native Americans on the reservation is much more warranted. If reparations pass, that will be the end of the Democratic Congress and White House in 2024. The Republicans could run Ted Cruz and they would win.

[quote]The Romans enslaved many different conquered peoples two thousand years ago- Greeks , Gauls( French), Jews etc- should their descendants now receive reperations from Italy .

Where is my EU citizenship and Tuscan villa?

Technically, slavery still exists in the United States. It is called “prison labor.“

[quote] People are afraid to come out against reparations.

Their disapproval will be expressed at the ballot box. Ignoring that reality defines delusion!

Don’t listen to Obama. He doesn’t have a good record when it comes to actually leading. This is a third rail.

Imagine if they were given the ability to open casinos like Native Indians? Everything better be bullet proof.

“White resentment”....I am certain working folks of all colors will resent having to pay this bullshit.

[quote]Imagine if they were given the ability to open casinos like Native Indians?

I'm sorry to be so insensitive, but it would turn into the fucking Thunderdome in five minutes. You know it's true.

Who gets reparations for these?