Why would he do that? It ruined him. Was he really in love with that worthless murderer?
Why did Truman Capote Betray his Elite Friends?
|by Anonymous||reply 226||July 29, 2021 10:22 PM|
He had to have known they would never trust him again .
|by Anonymous||reply 1||February 24, 2021 12:50 PM|
Because he was a racist transphobic cisf@gg0t just like all "gay" white "men" are racist transphobic cisf@gg0ts.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||February 24, 2021 12:52 PM|
His ego was enormous, and he was sliding deeply into alcohol and drug abuse at that point, so he wasn't thinking clearly and did many self-destructive things.
But no, he didn't realize they'd cut him dead completely. He thought he was far more important to them than he was.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||February 24, 2021 12:55 PM|
Because he was an alcoholic, narcissistic, selfish asshole. Love? He actually got to live the cagemeat fantasy. Jealous bitches?
He was the first person I ever saw on TV say they were homosexual. It was not reassuring.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||February 24, 2021 1:02 PM|
R3- Thank you. Amazing that he thought that. In Cold Blood was one of the best true crime books I have ever read. It was unthinkable to me that he could have anything other that revulsion for the killers of those poor people. Disgusting really. I lost any respect for him when I learned that he had a crush on a killer such as that. I was about 14 years old when I read ICB, and it affected me badly, especially the teenage girl.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||February 24, 2021 1:07 PM|
R1 Thank you for that link. Great article but I thought it ended too soon. There are two films about Capote's working on In Cold Blood: The Philip Seymore Hoffmann one and the Toby Jones' film Infamous. Infamous was the better film and it was where I learned about Capote's love for Perry Smith.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||February 24, 2021 1:58 PM|
My favorite part of that story is when Capote tried to call Babe Paley to apologize.
Babe's husband answered the phone and told Capote he hadn't read the piece because he'd thrown it out by accident and when Capote asked to speak to Babe, Bill said, "My wife is very ill." Not, Babe, but my wife.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||February 24, 2021 2:10 PM|
Which of the biographies would you recommend? I am about to go to the hospital, and it is going to be very stressful and painful. I would like to read an in-depth bio on Capote. My insurance has denied lifesaving medication. I am going to haunt their ER like a fucking poltergeist.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||February 24, 2021 2:11 PM|
He betrayed those ladies because, though they loved his company, they always condescended to him like a little pet dog that could perform adorable tricks. It was a power play on Truman's part.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||February 24, 2021 2:15 PM|
R7- Great gossip. Wasn't he living with an ex-wife of Johnny Carson's when he died? It staggers the mind to think that his ego was that outrageous. He did make for excellent gossip, though.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||February 24, 2021 2:19 PM|
Resd this one;
|by Anonymous||reply 11||February 24, 2021 2:19 PM|
[quote]I am about to go to the hospital, and it is going to be very stressful and painful.
Good luck with the transition, hun!
|by Anonymous||reply 12||February 24, 2021 2:20 PM|
Thank you, that one seems very juicy! Thanks, lol. $1000.00 for just ONE pill. They may not save me but they will not forget me, trust that. Anyway, I am good with leaving this shit show. Just do not want pain. Something inside says I need to go home, insane as that sounds.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||February 24, 2021 2:25 PM|
@r9, The wealthy enjoy having pet people around. You either play by their rules or you're out
As Lee Radziwell said when she avoided testifying in the legal trouble between Capote and Gore Vidal, “They are two fags. It is just the most disgusting thing.”
|by Anonymous||reply 14||February 24, 2021 2:26 PM|
What a cunt! I never knew she was a homophobic bitch. The hypocrisy. She fucked any wallet that looked her way.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||February 24, 2021 2:41 PM|
"She was a sick lady, that's why".
|by Anonymous||reply 16||February 24, 2021 2:44 PM|
Breeder bitches are such cunts. This is why gay men and lesbians should at least try to get along.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||February 24, 2021 2:48 PM|
He was a writer. He did what writers do: he used what he saw and heard to tell stories.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||February 24, 2021 2:49 PM|
Truman Capote was very intelligent, but he also lacked common sense.
When William Paley told Truman that he'd thrown the article out without reading it, Truman offered to send another copy.
What a fucking idiot.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||February 24, 2021 2:50 PM|
I believe the quote was "they're just a couple of fags"...I don't remember seeing the disgusting part. Source?
|by Anonymous||reply 20||February 24, 2021 2:51 PM|
R18- I truly understand that. Wasn't his sin that he did not masque the indenties of those he based the characters on enough?
|by Anonymous||reply 21||February 24, 2021 2:54 PM|
Once, in Key West, Truman Capote was approached by a drunken woman who asked him to autograph her stomach. Reluctantly, he did The drunken husband, incensed by the matter, stunned over, whipped out his cock, and demanded Truman’s autograph that. Truman very coolly replied, “I don’t know if I can autograph that, but I can initial it.” I hope that’s a true story, but one never knows with Truman Capote.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||February 24, 2021 2:54 PM|
Capote did, indeed, die in Joanna Carson's guesthouse. She was divorced from Carson, and took care of Truman as he died.
This is a good little historical fiction about Capote and The Swans:
|by Anonymous||reply 23||February 24, 2021 2:54 PM|
You go, Nell @R22! I never believed he wrote Mockingbird.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||February 24, 2021 2:55 PM|
Lee said that according to Liz Smith when she called Lee to ask her to help Truman her best friend in Vidal's suit against him and Lee said who cares they're just a couple of fags. I never heard the disgusting part either.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||February 24, 2021 2:59 PM|
(Radziwill) "Oh, well, you know, I mean, this is just a quarrel between two fags. That's all they are, they're just a pair of fags. And I think it's disgusting and the bottom of the barrel to be dragged into this quarrel between two fags . . ."
|by Anonymous||reply 26||February 24, 2021 3:00 PM|
R26 Charmed, I'm sure.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||February 24, 2021 3:03 PM|
Lmao! A snippet of one review: Truman Capote was tragic too, but evil in many ways. I was absorbed by the lives of the characters, which is what kept me reading, but I'm glad to be done with it!
|by Anonymous||reply 28||February 24, 2021 3:04 PM|
And the very similar ‘other’ version:
“According to Capote, she then told a New York columnist who asked her to explain the about-face, "Well, you know what they are. They're just a couple of fags and this is just a fight between two fags. I think it's disgusting that we have to be dragged into it."
|by Anonymous||reply 29||February 24, 2021 3:09 PM|
☝️Just bought it.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||February 24, 2021 3:09 PM|
R21 Given who he and they were and how small, then anyway, their world was it would have been difficult to conceal their identities and still tell their stories.
Like the story about Ann Woodward (later a novel and movie, The Two Mrs. Grenvilles, by Dominic Dunne) how many semi-trashy showgirls married a high-society millionaire and then - mistakenly, drunk, and after fighting - shot him saying she thought he was a burglar? And then had her mother-in-law help with the cover-up so as to avoid a greater scandal scandal? Life magazine called it "The Shooting of the Century." How could anyone disguise that? She was Capote's victim to some extent: she committed suicide 20 years later when the story came out.
CZ Guest never dropped him, perhaps because she was one his "Swans" that he didn't write about.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||February 24, 2021 3:21 PM|
|by Anonymous||reply 32||February 24, 2021 3:21 PM|
At least Vidal had more common sense. But even he had to play the pet with the Kennedys and probably had similar things said behind his back.
Say what you will about Capote and Vidal, but at least they accomplished something in their lifetimes, as opposed to glittery whores like Radziwill or perpetual victims like Babe Paley.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||February 24, 2021 3:24 PM|
[quote] perpetual victims like Babe Paley.
I beg your pardon.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||February 24, 2021 3:27 PM|
@r33, Since Gore Vidal was linked to the Kennedys through marriage they sort of had to tolerate him
|by Anonymous||reply 35||February 24, 2021 3:28 PM|
Truman outed Johnny Carson (Bobby Baxter) as a philandering sadist in Answered Prayers via swan Carol Matthau.
Capote never appeared on the Tonight Show again, though Walter Matthau subsequently made many appearances which must have been awkward.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||February 24, 2021 3:47 PM|
"He betrayed those ladies because, though they loved his company, they always condescended to him like a little pet dog that could perform adorable tricks. It was a power play on Truman's part."
He probably thought they'd forgive him because he was this Great Artiste, and that Great Artistes are forgiven everything. People worship Van Gogh even though he was batshit crazy, right? And those bitches would kill to be painted by Van Gogh, right? And having a great artist like him was like Van Gogh painting their portrait, right?
Wrong, especially about how great an artist he was.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||February 24, 2021 4:22 PM|
R20 I'm not the person you asked but just put "It is just the most disgusting thing" and "Radziwill" into Google and you'll get a ton of sources.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||February 24, 2021 4:22 PM|
Robert Morse's "Tru" is on Youtube.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||February 24, 2021 4:25 PM|
Babe Paley had to put up with the constant philandering of her narcissist climber husband Bill. If that doesn't make her a perpetual victim, I don't know what does.
I gather she was a lovely woman in many ways and she just resigned herself to her situation.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||February 24, 2021 4:35 PM|
[quote]Babe Paley had to put up with the constant philandering of her narcissist climber husband Bill. If that doesn't make her a perpetual victim, I don't know what does.
That is what women of that time/class were brought up to expect.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||February 24, 2021 4:41 PM|
By all accounts, Truman was suffering from writer's block.
So he may have felt it was better to offend than miss the deadline entirely.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||February 24, 2021 4:42 PM|
[quote]I think it's disgusting and the bottom of the barrel to be dragged into this quarrel between two fags
But, bottom of the barrel is where you live, hun.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||February 24, 2021 4:45 PM|
Truman Capote was a very good writer. But he thought he was Marcel Proust--a delusion of grandeur that did him in.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||February 24, 2021 4:46 PM|
I could never trust a writer. They are mostly creeps, though some are much worse than others. I don't know how successful fiction writers maintain any true friendships in real life. The people in their circle must always have the grotesque sensation of being " mined" for material. A common theme among writers who write roman a clefs is humiliating every single character besides the main character based on themselves, who is inevitably portrayed as sensible and only mildly flawed.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||February 24, 2021 4:47 PM|
Part of the problem was that after "In Cold Blood" he couldn't write anything substantive--almost all of his fiction after that is just gossip, and it's not very well written. He was too chemically altered most of the time to write anything else that required great concentration and too lazy to do anything that required time. But he felt he had to keep publishing to make people pay any attention to him, so he relied on publishing inflated gossip.
What was ridiculous was that he wanted these rich ladies to forgive him after he told stories out of school about him. OF COURSE they broke with him--why would you keep around someone who humiliated like that publicly? But he was so self-centered he couldn't believe they wouldn't forgive him.
The tragedy with Capote was that his talent was very limited. he was an innovator but in part that was because he had nothing very original to say--of his writing before "In Cold Blood," most of it is either childhood reminiscences or he's borrowed so heavily from other writers (Carson McCullers, Christopher Isherwood) that he does not come across as very original. he was incredibly lucky that his writing career coincided with the rise of New Journalism in the magazines, because that let him write about gossip.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||February 24, 2021 4:49 PM|
[quote] Say what you will about Capote and Vidal, but at least they accomplished something in their lifetimes, as opposed to glittery whores like Radziwill or perpetual victims like Babe Paley.
What a bizarre thing to say. Are you saying then that famous writers are inherently worth more than other human beings?
Radziwill had pretensions of being an actress (although it was really Capote who pushed her into it), but Paley wanted to be nothing other than what she was: a society wife.
Datalounge posters always want to turn life into this weird competition.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||February 24, 2021 4:52 PM|
I love his writing so much. Lots of the stories and of course In Cold Blood. If he went to seed after the B&W Ball, he still had written some great works.
More than I can say for myself.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||February 24, 2021 4:55 PM|
Thanks everyone. It is depressing, what passes for celebrities, artists,high society today.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||February 24, 2021 4:58 PM|
^^ Yes, bring back the shallow trust fund alcoholic bigots of the good ol' days
|by Anonymous||reply 50||February 24, 2021 5:13 PM|
Please! Those bitches had the best gossip. *Shallow bitch.*
|by Anonymous||reply 51||February 24, 2021 5:21 PM|
I wonder what his aunt, the fruitcake lady, would think about all this? I’m sure she’d find a way to tell them all they are fools.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||February 24, 2021 5:23 PM|
Tbh they still are shallow trust fund alcoholic bigots, they just had the good sense to dress better back then.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||February 24, 2021 5:24 PM|
They also had a much better vocabulary and tons more witt.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||February 24, 2021 5:28 PM|
Let's hear it for witt!
|by Anonymous||reply 55||February 24, 2021 5:29 PM|
Joyce, honey, you aren't coming with me. JR
|by Anonymous||reply 56||February 24, 2021 5:31 PM|
Another one who lost some good women Women aren't usually great leaders themselves but they have the capability to stand behind a man. Gay or straight
Don't go shitting all over it or it'll bring on your ruin
|by Anonymous||reply 57||February 24, 2021 5:46 PM|
[quote] Women aren't usually great leaders themselves but they have the capability to stand behind a man. Gay or straight
Tell us more about your life in the year 1953, r57.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||February 24, 2021 5:49 PM|
Capote had it all wrong about Perry Smith. Richard Hickock was the hot one.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||February 24, 2021 5:52 PM|
Smith was the one who wanted to talk to him. He would have gone for Hickock had he had as much to say.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||February 24, 2021 5:54 PM|
Capote didn't go after Bunny Mellon, did he?
|by Anonymous||reply 61||February 24, 2021 5:55 PM|
"Women aren't usually great leaders themselves but they have the capability to stand behind a man. "
Yeah. Because Trump was such a great "leader".
|by Anonymous||reply 62||February 24, 2021 6:14 PM|
Harper Lee's input into In Cold Blood was critical. She did a lot of interviews with the townspeople, getting them to like and trust both her and Capote. She helped organize the book and edited it. I wouldn't be surprised if she wrote sections of it too. Without her, he never could have written anything so substantive. He never would again.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||February 24, 2021 8:18 PM|
[Quote] The wealthy enjoy having pet people around. You either play by their rules or you're out
|by Anonymous||reply 64||February 24, 2021 8:24 PM|
Yes, let's, R55!
|by Anonymous||reply 65||February 24, 2021 8:30 PM|
I think that's why Capote like to intone he had written much of To Kill A Mockingbird, it was pure projection.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||February 24, 2021 8:31 PM|
Capote never let the truth get in the way of a good story no matter who it hurt. The story about initialing the cock was supposedly just another one of his stories. The narrative was amusing, risqué and concluded with his obvious superiority over the straight man. It met all of his requirements for a good story.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||February 24, 2021 8:43 PM|
True R63 and Harper was hurt that Truman never gave her the credit she deserved for helping him so much with In Cold Blood.
Also, in an interview once, Truman said he was jealous of Tennessee Williams because he actually enjoyed writing - while Truman hated it. No wonder he hung around the beautiful people - he wanted their lives of leisure.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||February 24, 2021 8:58 PM|
[quote] As Lee Radziwill said when she avoided testifying in the legal trouble between Capote and Gore Vidal, “They are two fags. It is just the most disgusting thing.”
What a cunt. Watch the NYT interview with her on youtube afrom 2013 or so. Ycccch! What a voice.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||February 24, 2021 9:04 PM|
Capote didn’t betray his friends. He betrayed acquaintances who considered him a novelty. THEY had money and HE didn’t. I don’t blame him for doing what he had to do to survive.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||February 24, 2021 9:08 PM|
When someone told Jackie on Assistance was going to marry Herb Ross (Lee's third and final husband), JKO responded, "But isn't he homosexual.
Jackie worried about John growing up to be a "fruit".
I read that she once said (paraphrase), "There's nothing more embarrassing than having one's son grow up to be a hairdresser.
Our beloved Bouvier sisters..
|by Anonymous||reply 71||February 24, 2021 9:12 PM|
[quote] Capote never let the truth get in the way of a good story no matter who it hurt.
The trouble was he had a lot of trouble telling the difference between when stories were genuinely good or when they were just excessively salacious.
"La Cote Basque," the story about Ann Woodward and Slim Keith and William Paley, just isn't a good story. The parts where he wildly overexaggerates are obvious and awful (they don't even make sense), and they make the whole thing a clunker. The story wasn't worth its consequences: the suicide of Ann Woodward, and the humiliation of Babe Paley.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||February 24, 2021 11:04 PM|
In Cold Blood is a great book. I just read it for the first time about six months ago. I highly recommend it.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||February 24, 2021 11:49 PM|
Thank God he left us with Lionel Twain.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||February 24, 2021 11:56 PM|
I recall reading long ago in the "A Woman Named Jackie" biography that when he watched the dismal live-aired play and acting by Lee Radziwill in the late 1960s on ABC-TV, supposedly he made fun of her wardrobe and said it was something not even The Supremes would be caught wearing. lol
|by Anonymous||reply 75||February 25, 2021 1:48 AM|
It's what gay guys do.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||February 25, 2021 2:42 AM|
Capote invented the genre of True Crime. Just think about that for a second. If that's the only thing he ever did it would be enough. He couldn't write fiction, hence his famous writer's block - fiction was inauthentic to him. His version of "fiction" was dressing up his observations and changing names. I mean, he should have just owned it and dropped his Swans bio like a grenade instead of being passive-aggressive about it.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||February 25, 2021 2:49 AM|
Also, Gore Vidal is exceedingly unpleasant as an interview and as a writer. Ego the size of Jupiter.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||February 25, 2021 2:51 AM|
Answer: The effects of alcoholism and pills, hubris born of his unique kind of "success," a fragile ego that was bloated but always vulnerable (he was striking out at the supports he depended on), and mere stupidity.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||February 25, 2021 2:56 AM|
R69 You’d think a rich person would be able to afford a quieter apartment, jeez. It sounded like those sirens were about to drive right through her damn living room.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||February 25, 2021 2:57 AM|
Capote did not invent the genre of True Crime (that tired chestnut needs to be buried under nonfiction history), but he certainly honed, elevated and perfected some of its components. And "In Cold Blood" is the best of all its kind.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||February 25, 2021 2:58 AM|
Truman's betrayal of his friends was very wrong, but, why was he so enamored with people like Babe Paley? She was a empty-headed clothes horse, her only accomplishment in life was marrying a rich man.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||February 25, 2021 3:00 AM|
Truman was incredibly shallow, R82.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||February 25, 2021 3:03 AM|
I just downloaded that 'Swans of Fifth Avenue' book to my Kindle and read a couple of chapters. It reads like it was written by Darwin Porter.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||February 25, 2021 3:08 AM|
R82 "why was he so enamored with people like Babe Paley?..."She was a empty-headed clothes horse, her only accomplishment in life was marrying a rich man."
The rich man and all his money could buy...
|by Anonymous||reply 85||February 25, 2021 3:10 AM|
R69, She sounds just like Elaine Stritch.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||February 25, 2021 3:29 AM|
Capotes' short stories are great.
He didn't write Mockingbird, he rewrote Go Set a Watchman.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||February 25, 2021 3:44 AM|
He forgot the most important rule in journalism: Never reveal your sources.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||February 25, 2021 4:10 AM|
[quote] Capote invented the genre of True Crime. Just think about that for a second. If that's the only thing he ever did it would be enough.
But he didn't at all.
There are popular examples going back to the 1730s at least, with Richard Bayes's [italic]The Genuine History of the Life of Dick Turpin[/italic] and other novels of the day based on the exploits of infamous highwaymen and other criminals. In the 1830s the UK had a revival of such works with "Newgate" novels: Harrison Ainsworth's [italic]Rookwood,[/italic] which was also about Turpin, and his bestseller [italic]Jack Sheppard,[/italic] which was about a criminal who was very similar, among other similar works such as the equally bestselling [italic]The Red Barn Mystery[/italic] by an anonymous author about one of the most sensationalized actual murders of the period. There had also been bestselling books in the 20th century that were true-crime novels, such as F. Tennyson Jesse's [italic]A Pin to Show the Peepshow[/italic] where the names in a infamous murder case had to be changed for legal reasons but everyone knew the criminals involved (in this case, Edith Thompson and Frederic Bywaters).
|by Anonymous||reply 89||February 25, 2021 4:31 AM|
Joanna Carson at one point scavenged her house for any and all Capote items after he died and put them up for auction. A friend who worked for the auction house said most of the items were pretty nasty, especially the clothes that were ripped, torn and stained and basically disgusting. One thing she kept was his ashes, which were then auctioned off by an even more disrespectful auction house after she died.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||February 25, 2021 4:37 AM|
"Truman said he was jealous of Tennessee Williams because he actually enjoyed writing - while Truman hated it. No wonder he hung around the beautiful people - he wanted their lives of leisure."
He must have resented that he had to keep working to keep his place in society, and to have enough money to keep up the required front.
And a pretentious little Southern Belle like him probably resented his "swans" for treating him like a pet the way they did, deep in his heart of hearts he hoped to be treated as a social equal, was angry that he wasn't treated like a social equal. Because yeah, writing an embarassing roman a clef about your dearest friends is massively passive-aggressive, the sort of thing a person does after they've been hiding resentment for a long, long, time.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||February 25, 2021 4:45 AM|
Just like Gore Vidal, Truman Capote had a mother who was a massive social climber and who as a result mostly ignored him. The "swans" were all the kinds of women Lillie Mae Capote would never have met but would have given her right arm to befriend. However, biographers have speculated that that was likely why he finally turned on them: both as revenge FOR his mother, who never got into that kind of circle, and revenge AGAINST his mother, who wanted to be a woman like that.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||February 25, 2021 4:52 AM|
"Truman Capote's "non-fiction novel" In Cold Blood (1965) is usually credited with establishing the modern novelistic style of the genre and the one that rocketed it to great profitability."
|by Anonymous||reply 93||February 25, 2021 5:58 AM|
Didn't Liz Smith call it social suicide?
|by Anonymous||reply 94||February 25, 2021 6:04 AM|
I don't know which of the killers he fell in love with but he sure couldn't wait for him to be hanged so he could finish the book. Big red flag for those society friends.
I was surprised that he and Cecil Beaton were close friends for a long while.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||February 25, 2021 12:58 PM|
Yes, R95. He couldn't wait for them to be executed so he could finally finish the book. By that time, he was clearly pushing for their execution. I've read that Truman was approached about helping mount a 'mental defect' defense for the two men and refused. He needed them executed.
|by Anonymous||reply 96||February 25, 2021 1:49 PM|
This is a good article on the subject. My apologies if it's been linked already.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||February 25, 2021 2:04 PM|
R95 that's easy to remember! He fell for Robert Blake! LOL....As the World Turns...who could have guessed how prescient this casting was!
|by Anonymous||reply 98||February 25, 2021 5:15 PM|
"Music for Chameleons" is a Capote collection of short stories that I think you all would enjoy.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||February 25, 2021 5:36 PM|
I was not impressed with "In Cold Blood." An older friend told me that was because I was used to true crime stories and that when ICB hit the market, it was something new.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||February 25, 2021 5:37 PM|
Yes, writers mine their real-life experiences for material. Capote, at some point, must have realized that he was a mascot and decided to go ahead and burn those bridges.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||February 25, 2021 5:39 PM|
Except that Capote was reportedly shocked that the friendships he'd mined for material ended after the book was published, and that no society bitch would have him as a lap dog.
Maybe he thought he'd be forgiven, or maybe at least he thought he'd become the favorite lap dog of the society bitches who hated the ones he'd written out. But no, he'd broken the rule of confidentiality for that entire stratum of society, no well-bred rich bitch would have him after that.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||February 25, 2021 5:49 PM|
Lap dogs don't see themselves as lap dogs. Especially the alcoholic ones.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||February 25, 2021 6:34 PM|
Was Cz Guest not mentioned in the stories, or she just didn't care? She's the one who stood by Truman and got him xhecked into rehab at least once.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||February 25, 2021 6:38 PM|
Lee with her living blackamoor.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||February 26, 2021 2:46 AM|
Guest is not herself mentioned in the stories--neither were some of the swans who didn't drop him afterwards, like Marella Agnelli. I think Diana Vreeland (not really a swan, but in their circle with Capote) also stood by him.
The ones who turned on him were mostly the ones gossiped about in the story or whom he portrayed as gossiping: Babe Paley and Slim Keith being the two closest friends among the swans (and the ones whose loss he most regretted), but also Gloria Vanderbilt and Happy Rockefeller.
In another story that year also published in "Esquire" called "Kate McCloud," he also told tales out of school about another of the swans, Mona von Bismarck.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||February 26, 2021 2:56 AM|
Was Nan Kempner one of his Swans?
|by Anonymous||reply 107||February 26, 2021 3:05 AM|
^ Not rich nor beautiful enough.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||February 26, 2021 3:10 AM|
Truman liked ruff trade and they always treated him like shit. He drank himself to death.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||February 26, 2021 3:20 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 110||February 26, 2021 3:34 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 111||February 26, 2021 3:38 AM|
Joanne Carson discusses Truman at 4:00.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||February 26, 2021 3:50 AM|
[quote] ^ ^ Not rich nor beautiful enough.
Also, during Truman's heyday with the Swans in the 60s, Nan was too young. She was trying to establish herself at that time as an up-and-coming fixture in NYC wealthy society, and so kept apart from him. By the time of his fall she had become a fixture of it--but by that time she had come up without him and didn't really need him. And by that point there was no point befriending him because he had a reputation as a drugged-out and erratic drunk who could wildly misbehave in public--exactly what she wouldn't have wanted.
Truman Capote was really his worst enemy forever after the Black-and-White Ball.
They did see each other regularly at Studio 54, and I'm sure they airkissed when they saw each other there. And then they went their separate ways.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||February 26, 2021 3:51 AM|
Truman didn't like rough trade. He liked dumb straight men. Must have gave him a kick. To suck their dick? I don't really want to know. He was very loyal to Jack. In the way that old gay and lesbian writers used to be. In love. With a mentor. Who were no longer dazzled by them but didn't desert them. The tortured gay men of the past are preferable to the stone age AIDS generation of elder gays on Datalounge. Complain and contrast and categorize. Wallow in fuck memories and disco. Bad politics. Racists who think they're not. Snobs who are laughable in their antiquated conceits.
Truman was a very sensitive and quite beautiful writer in youth who progressed to a tighter and edgier style. His prose is quite wonderful. I am almost 38 years old and I still studied it in Uni. There is no ONE reason to fault him for his downfall. All old gays become alcoholics and if they have some money their true sexual and personal selves emerge in those middle age indulgences. That's when old white gay men think they can get away with anything. Ha.
Capote was a stupid snob but so are most of the elder gays on DL. Stupid means stupid. There really isn't such a thing as a better or more tasteful person beyond some pretty basic criteria. Truman's comfort with an ordinary family and straight men, poor flower child Joanne Carson are kind of a testament to who he really was but had forgotten how to be.
His downfall was not tragic. How much longer should a man like that live? Once you start lying to yourself in both nonfiction and fiction publications - you are no longer a good writer.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||February 26, 2021 4:02 AM|
[quote]His downfall was not tragic.
It sure was. The last ten years of his life were basically a slow suicide.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||February 26, 2021 4:04 AM|
[quote]All old gays become alcoholics and if they have some money their true sexual and personal selves emerge in those middle age indulgences.
No and no.
|by Anonymous||reply 116||February 26, 2021 4:04 AM|
R47 Babe Paley wanted her husband to stop fucking around so blatantly and so often. She was a society wife before she married him as Mrs Stanley Mortimer, Jr.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||February 26, 2021 4:09 AM|
R117, Babe Paley was not pleased that Truman revealed in the "Answered Prayers" excerpt in Esquire Magazine that Bill Paley had a mouth watering cock.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||February 26, 2021 4:16 AM|
Women in those days had shit for options. The best thing they could hope for was to marry well, and usually their husbands were total assholes who treated them like shit and fucked around every five minutes. What a life.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||February 26, 2021 4:17 AM|
R119, most married women had shit for options in those days, but rich people ALWAYS have options. Women like the "swans" could divorce their husbands for cheating and get more than enough money to live on in the settlement, as well as alimony, primary custody of the kids in most cases, child support money, and whatever money of their own they came in with. Divorce may have meant a reduced standard of living for the richest of the rich bitches, but it sure as hell didn't mean poverty.
At least for much of the early 20th century, the main reason society bitches refused to get divorces was... their social standing would suffer if they got divorced. A divorce meant being dropped from some prized organizations and the best invitation lists, so women like Mrs. Randolph Hearst would spend decades living apart from their husbands and resisting any attempt he made to get free. Those women weren't victims, they were just too status hungry to make any conscessions.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||February 26, 2021 6:37 AM|
I think they really didn't care that their husbands cheated as long as it was done discretely.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||February 26, 2021 6:46 AM|
r120. Women, no matter if they grew up rich or poor, were raised differently back then. They were raised to believe that it would reflect badly on them if they couldn't make a loveless marriage work. Even when the husband was having affairs, it was the woman's fault for being a bad lover (and the mistress was a hussy, of course). Of course, if the woman was having sex outside her marriage she was a hussy slut whore.
Social status was everything back then. You didn't do, or say, things in "polite society". That's what got Capote in this mess in the first place. He aired the high society's dirty laundry for the consumption of the delighted lower classes to enjoy.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||February 26, 2021 6:48 AM|
Maybe the real question is why didn’t he do it sooner?
|by Anonymous||reply 123||February 26, 2021 7:04 AM|
[quote] Maybe the real question is why didn’t he do it sooner?
You think all the material in the book was shared at one single brunch? It takes time to gather all the intel.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||February 26, 2021 7:07 AM|
R124 No, I’m saying why did he do it at that point in time, why not earlier, as you say that was years of information gathering on them, why not at an earlier date, or later, why that particular time?
|by Anonymous||reply 125||February 26, 2021 7:28 AM|
Maybe he was pressed for time (publisher demanding a new book) or pressed for money?
|by Anonymous||reply 126||February 26, 2021 7:32 AM|
I just spent an hour writing a long , in depth post only to somehow fuck up and lose it. I am disgusted with myself. Sleep deprived. LoL. Sigh. Insomnia sucks. I will try to rewrite it after some much needed sleep. Thank you for all of your contributions. I can understand why he betrayed them. They did treat him like a pet. The pet turned on them. They should have seen that coming if they any insight as to why a human being would be resentful of being degraded for their amusement. He already had low self-esteem. I have yet to encounter an alcoholic that doesn't. They must have seen that.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||February 26, 2021 10:05 AM|
@r114, Well, you got it all figured out, huh? I can tell you right now that you're already setting yourself up for a life you claim to detest so much. Enjoy your vodka and bitterness, princess
|by Anonymous||reply 128||February 26, 2021 10:49 AM|
Journalists who write about Capote's fall out with his "friends" in 1975 (when Esquire published the first piece) seem to forget that despite his alcoholism he still was invited to parties and would enjoy the company of many new "friends" during Studio 54's time in the latter 1970's and early 1980's. Lawrence Grobel's Conversations with Capote (1985) who interviewed him during his last two years is very insightful because as a reader you get an idea of his mood swings over the course and understand he isn't malicious.
But of course he is gossiping half of the time, from Grobel's website: "Who but Truman Capote would dare to say what he says about (among many, many others) Jacqueline Onassis, Norman Mailer, Montgomery Clift, Andre Gide, Marilyn Monroe, Lee Radziwill, Tennessee Williams, J. D. Salinger, Gore Vidal, and Elizabeth Taylor?"
I was most surprised that Capote had a longtime partner and friends (as Joanna Carson) who actually cared about him. Capote was more than the little guy who was ridiculed by everyone. I wish someone would do a remake of Breakfast at Tiffany's as he wrote it. It's a touching story. It could be a more elegant Euphoria for adults at Netflix.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||February 26, 2021 11:23 AM|
I don’t live in the South so I have no idea but how many people have TC’s voice?
|by Anonymous||reply 130||February 26, 2021 10:26 PM|
Was Truman passed around by pedophiles when he was young or as a youngish looking man?
|by Anonymous||reply 131||February 26, 2021 10:34 PM|
Yep, R131. Gerald Clarke's bio of Capote--which is based on many interviews with Capote himself--says that he was molested by a teacher when he was 13. Soon after, his mother, hoping to drill the fairy out of him, sent him to boarding school. Pretty young blonde Truman became the plaything of butch older cadets, an experience he found both humiliating and arousing. No wonder he had such a complicated attitude towards sex afterwards.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||February 26, 2021 10:41 PM|
**Send him to MILITARY school
|by Anonymous||reply 133||February 26, 2021 10:41 PM|
I could never understand how Harper Lee put up with his antics. When I first read "Answered Prayers" in The New Yorker, I tried to figure which Swan(s) was the gist of the story. I seem to recall he showed up drunk for appearance either on Dick Cavett's show or David Susskind show.
|by Anonymous||reply 134||February 26, 2021 10:42 PM|
R132 Truman's early serious relationships were with much older men as well.
|by Anonymous||reply 135||February 26, 2021 10:43 PM|
R134, It was "The Stanley Siegel Show".
|by Anonymous||reply 136||February 26, 2021 10:49 PM|
Also, gay men even today are naive if they think that the still-existent "pet gay genius" representatives supported by wealthy, married or divorced women wouldn't be similarly excised after a swipe at their petit thrones or a betrayal of their shared secrets.
This syndrome can include men in the fine, practical or performance arts, wits, writers, gay men with money but "not too much" money. A small coterie of reliable single queers who can complete a table, step in at the last minute, do the walking when hubby's not interested, and gossip. And having a famous gay pet is the jackpot for these - yeah, they still exist even if their exteriors have changed. Of course the gay man gets access to a network of monied names, new connections, a larger social reputation and information.
Even poor Henry James unwittingly found himself in a comparable situation, and he didn't even admit his "situation."
|by Anonymous||reply 137||February 26, 2021 11:05 PM|
R133 Why the correction? You got it right the first time.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||February 26, 2021 11:55 PM|
[quote]Life is a moderately good play with a badly written third act.
|by Anonymous||reply 139||February 27, 2021 12:55 AM|
All I know is when I was a kid - I thought that anyone that could write In Cold Blood AND Breakfast at Tiffany's must be a pretty diverse, talented writer. I liked him. He certainly had an extremely interesting life, although I don't know how much happiness he had. I will always be a sucker for a mess of a man.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||February 27, 2021 1:40 AM|
WARHOLCAPOTE was a good play.
Why it didn't make it to Broadway is beyond me.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||February 27, 2021 3:43 AM|
Through the years, I have see countless women try to degrade gay men this way. It infuriates me. These useless, vicious, social climbing snots would not only treat them this way, but would talk about them behind their backs in a very homophobic manner. I did get into countless verbal fights with these cunts, and cut them out of my friend circle. I have been blessed to have some wonderful friends in my life. Any bitch degrading one of ours was cut to the bone . What a mean, humiliating way to treat anyone, but especially someone who trusted and befriended you. Gay, bi people had enough hate and discrimination to deal with. Of course I told my friends immediately and we would warn everyone we saw the leeches spending time with. Disgusting, hypocritical, homophobic invests. I have had no problem at all with what TC did to them, as I have no doubt they deserved that and more. I took one women's boyfriend from her. I did not want the shallow dipshit, I just wanted to burn the bitch. And guess what? My friends helped me. 😁
|by Anonymous||reply 142||February 27, 2021 10:29 AM|
^. You don’t think TC acted worse than those swans?
|by Anonymous||reply 143||February 27, 2021 10:36 AM|
Were all the swans as homophobic as the Jackie and Lee?
|by Anonymous||reply 144||February 27, 2021 11:03 AM|
Jackie had her own issues with Jack's "friend" Lem Billings
|by Anonymous||reply 145||February 27, 2021 11:22 AM|
Good point, but yes, I do think they were worse. They thought they were above him, yet pandered to him. If they were so against homosexuality, they should have never befriended him to begin with. This what I told the, mostly women, in my life that acted this way. It wasn't just gay men they did this to either, they did this to POC as well. Maybe not so much now, but they sure did . " Oh my BLACK friend and I went to Underground Atlanta last night.... " fill in the blanks.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||February 27, 2021 11:40 AM|
R146- Lol, same. When I was young and in Middle School, they would ask me if I wore colored contact lenses. When I would say no, they said: " Rub your eyes with your hand because I don't believe you.". My eyes are what has been called silver blue. Wearing a mask and matching robe is a great look for me too. My neighbor said he will never stop wearing a mask because he doesn't have to bother with his denture's. He is a silver-hair daddy! If I weren't married I would stalk him, lol. Look into his bedroom window with my binoculars. ( Ok, I do that anyway, 🧿) JK.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||February 27, 2021 12:42 PM|
So which stories in Esquire ruined his friendships? Were they later published after his death as Answered Prayers?
What aliases did he use for his famous friends? Can we get a list?
I want to read all the stories that ruined his friendships.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||February 27, 2021 1:41 PM|
R148, I think it was an article in Esquire called "La Côte Basque, 1965." The article was supposed to be a preview for a book. Not sure if the book ever came. Others can chime in.
Seems like he knew it would end his friendships. Excerpt from the Post article linked below:
[quote] Capote thought this story was another masterpiece, to be part of his long-awaited book “Answered Prayers.” He told People magazine it would be filled with thinly disguised characters, people he knew. He was going to assassinate them all, his pen the gun.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||February 27, 2021 6:14 PM|
TC had a mutual beneficial relationship with his swans, just like gay 'pets' today do with wealthy socialites. If he felt they were condescending, he could have separated himself from them in a reasonable fashion. But he wanted the cache of being friends with Babe Paley and Gloria Vanderbilt. He wanted to go to their parties and benefit from their connections, so he put up with them until his deep-seated issues resulted in the implosion that was Answered Prayers. It was passive-aggressive and self-destructive as hell, but that was Capote.
|by Anonymous||reply 150||February 27, 2021 6:55 PM|
Slim Keith was "Lady Ina Coolbirth", I don't remember the rest of the pseudonyms.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||February 27, 2021 10:15 PM|
Wasn't the Paley revelation particularly tawdry and gross? It had Bill at the NYC apartment running around (on a weekend when servants were dismissed) trying to frantically wash his lover's menstrual blood off sheets and a mattress before Babe got home?
|by Anonymous||reply 152||February 27, 2021 10:29 PM|
At least he didn't take her up the ARSE R152. Shit don't come out of sheets in the first warsh.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||February 27, 2021 10:35 PM|
R151 I thought Lady Coolbirth was Pamela Churchill Hayward Harriman. Both she and Slim Hawks Hayward Keith had three husbands, shared one, and both married British aristos, the difference being that Harriman married her’s first where Keith married her’s last.
R152 Capote’s language was always descriptive: the bloodstains on the sheets were “as big as Brazil” and Bill Paley (Sidney Dillon in the story) was scrubbing them in the tub “like a Spanish peasant.” The woman having her period was said to be Mary Rockefeller, Nelson’s first wife and the source of the story, allegedly, was Happy Rockefeller, his second.
Le Cote Basque is one of the bitchiest short stories you’ll ever read. Capote’s agent told him not to publish it, advice he ignored.
|by Anonymous||reply 154||February 27, 2021 10:48 PM|
You're correct, of course, R154, regarding Coolbirth. Thank you.
Diego Rivera's naughty sketch of CZ Guest is your reward for your excellent memory:
|by Anonymous||reply 155||February 27, 2021 10:53 PM|
R148 You could read the fucking thread that answers all your cunting questions.
|by Anonymous||reply 156||February 27, 2021 10:57 PM|
Not to hijack the thread, R145, and not without a reason, but Jackie knew Lem had always had a sneaker for Jack and the CIA thought the Russians could blackmail him.
She might also have seen the photo of the two of them in Palm Beach in matching swim trunks (scroll down.)
After JFK and his brother Bobby were killed, it was said that Lem Billings was the most distraught of all the Kennedy widows.
|by Anonymous||reply 157||February 27, 2021 11:45 PM|
"After JFK and his brother Bobby were killed, it was said that Lem Billings was the most distraught of all the Kennedy widows."
Billings was an odd one, he never really did anything with his life except be a Kennedy hanger-on.
The actual widows had to pull up their suspenders and get on with things because they had children to raise, Billings had nothing once his "best friend" and brother-and-heir were gone.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||February 27, 2021 11:51 PM|
Spy magazine, how I miss that publication. The society foibles they exposed, wished I kept my copies. What was the restaurant that the 'ladies who lunch" frequented and the owner catered to only those types. If you were a nobody, well, tables are all full.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||February 28, 2021 12:53 AM|
Who's to bless and who is to blame? These society women may have treated him like a pet. But Capote was a social climbing fag without credentials. He was a suck up flatterer - prone to sentiment and overly good manners. But he more welcome for being a bitchy and witty gossip. That's fun when times are good and he was a great listener when times were bad. He became their confidantes and then massively betrayed them. He deserved to be iced out. Warhol called.
|by Anonymous||reply 160||February 28, 2021 1:22 AM|
CZ Guest said (this was in the Clarke book) that she never told Truman anything in confidence, which is why he kept her out of La Cote Basque.
Ann Woodward called him a fag and he found out, which is why he dragged her into La Cote Basque.
From what I recall, he was under pressure to release Answered Prayers, which he had been talking about for years. The year prior to the release of La Cote Basque, he had a short story, Mojave, published in Esquire, which he claimed was the opening chapter of Answered Prayers. It wasn’t well received . He needed to make a splash, so he cobbled together the stories all these homophobic Swans told him over the years and put it in Esquire.
He claimed the finished manuscript was put in a safe deposit box, but it’s never been located. Probably more drunken ramblings.
Andy Warhol spent a lot of time with him from 1977-79, and he’s featured prominently in the Diaries. He made a lot of outlandish claims there, like sucking off Humphrey Bogart.
What happened to John O’Hara, the middle aged drunk with five kids from Truman got to leave his wife for him. The stylist Kate Harrington is his daughter; Truman took her around to places like Studio 54 and claimed she was his niece. Eventually she ended up working at Interview magazine; when she was raped, Andy bitchily asked if her attacker liked the Armani outfit she was wearing, which came from an Interview photo shoot.
|by Anonymous||reply 161||February 28, 2021 1:58 AM|
[quote]Capote was a social climbing fag without credentials.
R160, You have no idea what you're talking about.
|by Anonymous||reply 162||February 28, 2021 1:59 AM|
[quote] Journalists who write about Capote's fall out with his "friends" in 1975 (when Esquire published the first piece) seem to forget that despite his alcoholism he still was invited to parties
Yes, but not the ones he wanted to be invited to attend.
|by Anonymous||reply 163||February 28, 2021 2:09 AM|
[quote] What happened to John O’Hara, the middle aged drunk with five kids from Truman got to leave his wife for him.
|by Anonymous||reply 164||February 28, 2021 2:10 AM|
Sorry r164-I meant John O’Shea. He left his five and five kids for Truman.
|by Anonymous||reply 165||February 28, 2021 2:16 AM|
Get off my jock R162. You love it too much. Capote had no social credentials. A social climbing fag without credentials. Capische?
You're a tacky ancient white bitch yourself R162. I ain't got the time for you on any night of the week. You drink too much and jump too quick. Boring to anyone from any background. Slow your roll gramps.
|by Anonymous||reply 166||February 28, 2021 2:20 AM|
r166 is the putrid 'ancient white fags' troll who should be banned from this site.
|by Anonymous||reply 167||February 28, 2021 2:21 AM|
^ Ha. Someone hates the truth. ^
|by Anonymous||reply 168||February 28, 2021 2:29 AM|
The truth is that you're a festering boil on DL's ass.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||February 28, 2021 2:32 AM|
A boil on your ass would be a visual relief from the rest of it R169.
|by Anonymous||reply 170||February 28, 2021 2:34 AM|
Muriel needs to ban this 'ancient white fags' pig already.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||February 28, 2021 2:38 AM|
Stop stutterrrrinnng R171. You're tiring out my jockstrap. Y'all must be 80 years old. Stamping your tiny feet for THIS man to be banned for calling you out on your regressive racist shite? Don't bother with "muriel". Take it to your maker. You have no power here. Be pleasant and accept dissenting opinions. You're coming across like miss warwicke. That racist old white man from Missouri IS BANNED.
|by Anonymous||reply 172||February 28, 2021 2:54 AM|
Are any of the Swans still alive?
|by Anonymous||reply 173||February 28, 2021 2:57 AM|
He did not suffer from writers block- he was alcoholic- very. In Cold Blood is perfect. Best written thing I’ve ever read. He was brilliant, but I assume a very troubled man because he lied about anyone and anything- so did Vidal who I don’t thing was as good a writer. But he was not as bad an alcoholic. I “met”Truman- many times. A mess. I thought Vidal was the standard for a 50s style self loathing gay man- every man is gay but not him (in his telling). These were not cozy fellas. But damn In Cold Blood is brilliant.
|by Anonymous||reply 174||February 28, 2021 4:34 AM|
Didn't Lee write In Cold Blood?
|by Anonymous||reply 175||February 28, 2021 5:18 AM|
I think Charlie @R174 has it right. Capote was a lying, social climbing, drunk. A brilliant writer. Not a word to toss around. His scandal of the *swans* is a bit beside the point. They contributed little to the world. Capote left something behind.
|by Anonymous||reply 176||February 28, 2021 5:26 AM|
r175: Babe Paley wrote it, but it's an open secret in the literary world.
Capote had to cut her long digressions about how tacky Nancy Clutter's wardrobe was: e.g. "Saddles shoes again! You would have thought she could have been more imaginative, especially on what was to be the day of her death."
|by Anonymous||reply 177||February 28, 2021 5:31 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 178||February 28, 2021 5:52 AM|
R176 You type drunk.
|by Anonymous||reply 179||February 28, 2021 5:54 AM|
^ You're nuts.^ And out of line.
|by Anonymous||reply 180||February 28, 2021 6:27 AM|
You BOTH type drunk. Stop being yourselves.
|by Anonymous||reply 181||February 28, 2021 6:32 AM|
r173 Marella Agnelli was probably the last one - she died in 2019.
|by Anonymous||reply 182||February 28, 2021 6:42 AM|
I think Carole Matthau also stayed friends with Truman. She'd been married to William Saroyan so understood that writers used people for copy. She and Truman social climbed around the same time.
Babe Paley was raised to be a perfect society wife and marry money, but towards the end of her life she took up painting and regretted not having studied it. She was an editor at Vogue and really did have a great innovative eye when it came to clothes--her one bit of artistic self-expression.
|by Anonymous||reply 183||February 28, 2021 6:43 AM|
Joanne Carson was devoted to Truman Capote both in life and after his death.
|by Anonymous||reply 184||February 28, 2021 7:23 AM|
R154, not that you'll see this, but Slim WAS Ina Coolbirth. I just reread her bio and another article that confirms.
|by Anonymous||reply 185||March 4, 2021 11:46 PM|
It's not what I saw, R185, but rather what Harriman's biographer Sally Bedell Smith said. I read Slim Keith's book as well - she certainly could be Lady Coolbirth. The VF article by Sam Kasher also posits that it's Keith but he mistakenly (I'm told, anyway) assigns those bloodstains the size of Brazil to Nelson Rockefeller's second wife rather than his first. I can't imagine Happy Rockefeller telling that story about herself, nor Bill Paley telling it to Truman, but could easily see Happy talking about her rather dour predecessor. Nor do I think it likely it's a title Lady Keith would claim - would you? - even as she did. Who knows?
|by Anonymous||reply 186||March 5, 2021 2:05 AM|
[QUOTE]Why did Truman Capote Betray his Elite Friends?
Because he could.
|by Anonymous||reply 187||March 5, 2021 11:40 AM|
The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool.
They lay. They rotted. They turned
Bits of flesh dropped off them from
Time to time.:And sank into the pool's mire.
They also smelt a great deal.
|by Anonymous||reply 188||March 5, 2021 1:59 PM|
R188, that should in fact be Paul Neil Milne Johnstone.
|by Anonymous||reply 189||March 5, 2021 4:23 PM|
Thanks R97. There is also another Vanity Fair article which delves into this story from another perspective, written by his biographer in 1988.
|by Anonymous||reply 190||July 16, 2021 9:36 PM|
[quote]or he's borrowed so heavily from other writers (Carson McCullers, Christopher Isherwood
I'm glad to see someone say this. I have only read 'Breakfast at Tiffany's' and all I thought was "poor man's 'Sally Bowles'".
|by Anonymous||reply 191||July 16, 2021 10:36 PM|
R141 I saw "WarholCapote" and it was excellent. Dan Butler was a last minute replacement so he was using a script - but to his credit he didn't need it often.
|by Anonymous||reply 192||July 17, 2021 12:19 AM|
One of you will know this…during the Capote/Vidal feud, Capote was on some talk show and said Vidal was a pig. The next night, he came on the same show unannounced, and said he wanted to apologize…to the pigs of the world. I read it in some bio, but can’t locate the reference. Anyone?
|by Anonymous||reply 193||July 17, 2021 1:05 AM|
What was so good about in cold blood as it pertains to the author.
|by Anonymous||reply 194||July 17, 2021 1:19 AM|
Have you read it, R194?
It was one of the first, if not first of its kind in terms of true crime novels. I had read a few true crime novels before I got around to reading In Cold Blood, decades after its original release. It really does capture that most lack. There is a deeper reality than most present in novels of any kind. It gives a full story of who, what, where, when, and why. It's very clear who and what is good and bad, but it doesn't shy away from presenting the bad, not favorably, but with a degree of understanding. I'd argue that we've gone too far at this point in mainstream fiction with how the baddies are treated or portrayed, but this book really does do an exceptional job of making you feel the utter worthlessness of the crime in its entirety.
|by Anonymous||reply 195||July 17, 2021 1:33 AM|
[R84], I'm literate, but I've never heard of Darwin Porter. Do you have any books to recommend?
|by Anonymous||reply 196||July 17, 2021 2:13 AM|
Remember that Bill Paley saw Lois Chiles on screen and decided then and there to make her his mistress. Which he did, rather openly. Chiles got a lot of money out of but but basically lost her career which, considering what happened to most Bond girls, probably wouldn't have been so great anyway.
|by Anonymous||reply 197||July 17, 2021 2:24 AM|
I just looked him up to see what all the fuss was about.
I don't get it, he was ugly. I know money and power attract people, but seriously. There's a limit.
|by Anonymous||reply 198||July 17, 2021 2:27 AM|
^Just to clarify, I'm talking about Bill Paley here.
|by Anonymous||reply 199||July 17, 2021 2:28 AM|
Well, sadly it's a common trait for gay men to betray their friends. The majority, but not all, of course. The only sense of loyalty they have is to their current whims and their selfish interests.
|by Anonymous||reply 200||July 17, 2021 2:41 AM|
Lois Chiles couldn't act her way out of a paper bag. Being a well-kept mistress was a good career move for her.
|by Anonymous||reply 201||July 17, 2021 2:43 AM|
"James, take me around the world one more time."
|by Anonymous||reply 202||July 17, 2021 2:56 AM|
Lots of straight bitches have a "pet fag" . Its still very much a thing. I had several fag hags in my life,some I considered real friends and had known for decades .Then i had 2 heart attacks in a 4 month period and do you think I saw even ONE of those cunts ? Believe me,I knew all their dirt. Had I had a platform,I might have spilled all the tea too. Havent had a straight friend since then. That being said,he had to know what the cost would be .He must have been just too far gone on drugs and booze to care.
|by Anonymous||reply 203||July 17, 2021 3:20 AM|
OK -- I'm tired of hearing how perfect Babe Paley was. Can anyone link anything where I can see her moving and hear her speaking? I'm not finding anything on YouTube. TIA.
|by Anonymous||reply 204||July 17, 2021 11:24 PM|
Maybe a dumb question, but why didn’t Bill Paley simply replace the stained bedsheets with clean ones?
|by Anonymous||reply 205||July 21, 2021 6:34 PM|
Oh, R200, what a sour little bitch you must be. You imagine that the majority of gay men betray their friends. What a shitty, homophobic place you are stuck in.
|by Anonymous||reply 206||July 21, 2021 8:15 PM|
The stealthy way Truman operated I would guess that he befriended those hoity-toity fully intending on writing about them. He performed as their little court jester and- when he was out of material- he'd just make shit up.
|by Anonymous||reply 207||July 21, 2021 8:27 PM|
Ayn Rand was attracted to murders, too. Fucking weird. I never liked her books. Pretentious shit.
|by Anonymous||reply 208||July 21, 2021 8:32 PM|
Bill Paley had probably never, ever changed bed sheets in his life, unless he was in the service. I doubt he knew where spare sheets were kept.
I read once that Babe was always perfectly coifed, dressed and in makeup, whenever he saw her. She would get up before he did and apply makeup, she didn’t want him to ever view her otherwise. She shouldn’t have bothered, with the way he treated her, even sleeping with her “best” friends. Should have served him breakfast in her worst bath robe, in slippers and her hair in curlers.
|by Anonymous||reply 209||July 21, 2021 8:52 PM|
R136 Amazing that he lived for 6 years after that (died in 1984.)
|by Anonymous||reply 210||July 21, 2021 9:57 PM|
I liked when William F. Buckley threatened to punch his lights out and he ran screaming off stage.
|by Anonymous||reply 211||July 21, 2021 10:08 PM|
Ted Baxter) And I want some new writers Lou, I hear this Truman Cah-poat" is good
Mary) "E" Ted
Ted) Oh yeah that's what I meant Truman E Cah-Poat
|by Anonymous||reply 212||July 22, 2021 1:40 AM|
Capote wanted to be a Swan, not a pet gay to them.
|by Anonymous||reply 213||July 22, 2021 11:37 PM|
He liked attention, name dropping and would get loose lips when he was drinking. Which was all the time.
|by Anonymous||reply 214||July 22, 2021 11:43 PM|
Capote, like many gays of the era, was very self-destructive. The closet kills, lads.
|by Anonymous||reply 215||July 22, 2021 11:44 PM|
Was Capote ever closeted? Even to the public?
I thought he was one of these people who maybe never made an official coming-out announcement, but absolutely everyone knew.
|by Anonymous||reply 216||July 22, 2021 11:49 PM|
Is Rupert a modern day Capote gossip wise. He was besties with the two biggest female stars of the modern era?
|by Anonymous||reply 217||July 23, 2021 7:37 AM|
Everybody knew, just like everybody knew about Halston and Mercury, but they could never publically claim a male lover or openly live as gay men. They were also constantly put down as fags and pussies by hetero assholes who still consumed their creative output. That has to wear on your soul over time.
In the case of Halston and Mercury, they adored straight women while treating their male lovers like shit. Capote seems to have done something similar, though he turned on his swans in the end. Self-hatred is such a caustic thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 218||July 23, 2021 12:57 PM|
All of these people sounded like they we're miserable and deeply bitter with deep seated unresolved issues.
I guess that's a lot of people then.
|by Anonymous||reply 219||July 23, 2021 8:38 PM|
The “swans”, as he called them, were basically useless women. Especially Lee Radziwill. She served no purpose in life.
|by Anonymous||reply 220||July 27, 2021 4:10 PM|
A friend of mine was also sent to military school to get the queer drilled out of him. He said he never had so much sex in his life - and he wasn't exactly a recluse later on.
|by Anonymous||reply 221||July 29, 2021 12:32 AM|
Everybody knew Capote was gay. There was no reason for a public announcement. It would have been like Johnny Carson announcing his heterosexuality.
|by Anonymous||reply 222||July 29, 2021 12:39 AM|
Joan Crawford and Bette Davis both had Pussies you know!
They were women.
|by Anonymous||reply 223||July 29, 2021 12:45 AM|
That's always true of boarding schools: Affluent, often fucked up kids away on their own with only cursory supervision. Sex, drugs, and booze galore.
|by Anonymous||reply 224||July 29, 2021 3:05 PM|
Hey r13, are you still with us?
|by Anonymous||reply 225||July 29, 2021 3:09 PM|
He probably needed the funds!
|by Anonymous||reply 226||July 29, 2021 10:22 PM|