How the Pandemic Left the $25 Billion Hudson Yards Eerily Deserted

a project deserving of its city

I didn't know the developer received an enormous tax break by rezoning that area as a district from Harlem until Amazon was hounded out of getting a similar deal in Long Island City.

Can someone cut and paste the article. I gave up my NY Times online account. Not cheap here they kept harrassing me when it expired and pissed me off. I was a subscriber for decades.

This bullshit about needing to build enormous fucking luxury developments and grifting developers needing to pay no taxes to create jobs is just that, bullshit.

Once the construction is completed, what fucking jobs remain?

Dead-end, minimum wage sales jobs in stores no one shops in?

This link should work for non-subscribers.

The pandemic has changed many things - perhaps permanently. The big bucks property developers made from creating inner city living dwellings seems to be one of them.

I think that's a good thing.

Parasites. Not done with draining their host. Now these parasites will demand another tax break using covid as their grift.

It was built as a city in the sky for the rich to look down on the rest of us.

Fine. Rich people have money to pay taxes. Why are the rich always with their hands out?

This development was an ill conceived, DATED evil and deserves to sink. Americans no longer shop in malls.

Malls were dying anyway even before the pandemic. To build a gaudy new high-end mall was stupid. And who wants to live therr anyway?

Who needs a shitty store with OVERPRICED merchandise like Neiman Marcus. If I was buying a condominium there I would be enticed by a Whole Foods and or a Trader Joe's, but regardless I wouldn't move to that UGLY Hudson Yards.

I'm not living in any structure where I can't jump out the window and survive.

cunts

what a stupid pile of shite

[quote]It is New York’s largest public-private venture and the city’s biggest development since Rockefeller Center in the 1930s, aided by roughly $6 billion in tax breaks and other government assistance, including the expansion of the subway to the West Side.

[quote]The second part was supposed to include 3,000 residences across eight buildings closer to the Hudson River, as well as a 750-seat public school and hundreds of low-cost rental units. At least 265 apartments are meant to be “permanently affordable,” according to a 2009 agreement between City Hall and Related.

So for $6 billion, all the public sector got was a school and 265 apartments? Thanks, Bloomberg for another stellar deal. And they even let them leave their obligations for the second phase, rather than demand they be built upfront?

[quote]Even more perilous, the promised second phase of Hudson Yards — eight additional buildings, including a school, more luxury condos and office space — appears on indefinite hold as the developer, the Related Companies, seeks federal financing for a nearly 10-acre platform on which it will be built.

Oh, so $6 billion wasn't enough!

And is if that all wasn't bad enough, it's so cheaply done.

A pandemic that's killed almost half a million people has left places deserted?

What makes that "eerily deserted," Mme. O.P. Cliche?

You certainly have been making the rounds haven't you?

[quote] Led by its billionaire founder Stephen M. Ross

[quote] Related cannot construct the second half until it builds a deck over the rail yard. The company, along with Amtrak, has been in discussions with the federal Department of Transportation about a low-interest loan to finance the platform and preserve the right of way for a new rail tunnel under the Hudson that Amtrak is planning to build.

Looks like Pete is going to get an Equinox membership out of this!

The main point of the project from the City’s point of view was the extension of the 7 subway line, which couldn’t have been funded otherwise. But why it had to be giant skyscrapers for the rich only I don’t know.

I'm a dedicated YIMBY so I'll stay out of this gooney thread

[quote]The main point of the project from the City’s point of view was the extension of the 7 subway line, which couldn’t have been funded otherwise. But why it had to be giant skyscrapers for the rich only I don’t know.

Someone named Daniel in the readers' comments section of the Times called it a "cold, detached monument to opulence" and I couldn't agree more.

Deserted save for the three suicides.

Schumer, Cuomo and BdeB (along with whoever wins mayoral race in November) are going to be leaning on Pete Buttieg hard to get DOT funding for all sorts of projects including that platform at Hudson Yards.

In general New York is betting that between having Schumer as senate majority leader and Biden in WH the spiot will be opened for vast sums of federal dollars to flow in their direction.

Cuomo in particular recently announced big plans for Far West Side development, but as always hasn't exactly stated who will be paying.

[quote]Related made it clear before the outbreak that it intended to earn the bulk of its money at Hudson Yards through its condos and mall since Mr. Ross said it had been leasing office space at cost, without taking a profit.

Gee, that sounds like a sensible move

Years ago, I lived on W. 30th St. between 8th and 9th avenues. Before this contraption of buildings were built, I had a birds eye view of the Hudson River from street level. Not anymore. I can’t tell you how my stomach turns when I look down the block at those hideous skyscrapers. Fucking greedy corporate cocksuckers.

These developers want all cities to look like Dubai.

I work there and do not miss it one iota since they sent us home last March.

R19 that’s a good way to describe it, it is very sterile. I had a few pre pandemic meetings in a skyscraper there and the view is nice but when you’re on the ground it feels nothing like NYC. And it’s a constant construction zone still.

The Shed is the only thing that has promise there

I read the piece which is surprisingly brisk, the developer is demanding federal financing.

Welfare stunt queens.

[quote] Once the construction is completed, what fucking jobs remain?

They go onto the next construction project. It isn’t just developers who want this nonsense — the construction workers, plumbers, electricians & their unions support these behemoth projects too because they keep them steadily employed. Finish one massive project, go onto the next one. Mafia owns the construction industry. They pay politicians & the politicians ok massive development projects. The developers pay the Mafia. Everybody’s taken care of.

An ex works as an electrician, licensed. Has been furloughed for months on end each year. This is a scam and a grift and a money pit and a waste of taxpayers money.

Union or not, work in trades is often feast or famine. There are times when work is good and steady, then others not so much.

This is one reason they do say union projects (especially those financed in whole or part by federal funds) take ages longer than they should to complete, and cost many multiple times more than similar projects anywhere else in world.

Boston's "Big Dig" was once most recent poster child for a massive infrastructure project that was a boondoggle. It how is fast being eclipsed by NYS's MTA East Side Access project (scheme to bring LIRR to Grand Central Terminal) that is staggeringly over budget and vastly past due. All this complete with usual for such projects including a good amount of no show jobs.

On another note reason why this nation now finds itself short of construction workers, especially those in trades is that during last major downturn many left to find other work and never returned.

R3, use this. Free NYT.

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This is a scam, and Hudson Yards doesn’t fit in NYC. It’s ridiculous. More transplant shit

The review at R14 has so much great snark. Bravo.

What an ugly disgusting eyesore. Native New Yorkers laugh at this shit. Places like Hudson Yards are for the wealthy flyovers and Eurotrash. I'm so sick of this bullshit.

New York is always able to cough up tax write-offs for expensive garbage like this, yet never seems to be able to accommodate people who need affordable housing.

In any available empty space in Manhattan, Brooklyn and Queens, there's always some ugly expensive high rise going up. Who lives in these apartments in these awful buildings? It's usually never people who actually grew up in these neighborhoods.

That should have been medium density public housing and schools, etc. Some simple modest towers maybe too. Its awful.

R34 most new developments have a portion set aside for “affordable housing.” But the income limits and rents and the insane process you have to go through to get one of those places is prohibitive. So much easier to get an older rent stabilized apartment (of which there are still a ton in NYC).

And now with rents in Manhattan having fallen so much, many of the affordable housing units are more expensive than market rate.

New development only has "affordable" or "low income" component if either developer requests and is granted some sort of zoning variance from city. City contributes all or portion of funding, and or via "inclusion zoning bonus". Latter is where a building gains more FAR if they agree to add affordable housing. There still are plenty of market rate developments (mostly condo but some rental) that is strictly market rate.

What some of you fail to understand one goes with the other... City of New York on its own never can or will be able to create remotely enough "affordable" housing. So both state and local governments must deal with that fact, then find ways to entice private developers to "include" low income households.

Mind you the list of who qualifies for these lottery units is vast; illegal aliens, homeless, those with poor credit, past L&T court issues, in some cases those with criminal records.... People that otherwise never would see inside of housing in nearly all of Manhattan below say Harlem and certain other parts of city, but again that is the point.

Democrats including Obama realized long ago they failed with housing programs created in outcome of civil rights movement. Whites and anyone else who could simply picked up and moved to suburbs or other areas they deemed were safe, clean, had good schools, etc....

The whole mantra now is "inclusion" and "equality"; getting the masses of great unwashed into areas they normally wouldn't be so they can take advantage of all the rich amenities (good schools, excellent healthcare, etc...

This is why NYC under BdeB has forced developers to include affordable housing onsite in new development subject to those rules. Previously developers could put the affordable/low income housing in another area, keeping the market rate housing in prime territory. So you got new market rate housing say in West Village, but the low income in some part of Bronx or Harlem. In short it perpetuated patterns of racial and economic segregation.

BdeB isn't finished yet, there are plans to rezone Tribeca and SoHo in order to bring tons of "affordable" or "low income" housing to what is one of the wealthiest parts of Manhattan (if not entire city), and most certainly the whitest.

Developers and city for that matter *need* higher income households to rent or buy into these buildings because their payments subsidize revenue lost from the affordable component.

"What an ugly disgusting eyesore. Native New Yorkers laugh at this shit. Places like Hudson Yards are for the wealthy flyovers and Eurotrash. I'm so sick of this bullshit."

And I'm sick of the whole " native New Yorkers" bullshit. It's no secret where Trump mastered the art of deflection, of blaming everybody else for his mistakes. Any time there is something wrong in New York, immediately the blame is shifted to " tourists," "flyovers," and the " bridge and tunnel" crowd. This is a monstrosity made BY AND FOR New Yorkers. You elected the politicians, you put up with the grift of the businessmen who are demanding govt funds for crap like this. Look in the mirror, wake up, and stop electing idiots. Your record of leaders is atrocious.......... and you are responsible. Grow up, Donalds.

They should have just built the Jets stadium on it like they originally wanted to.

I have zero reason - or desire - to set foot anywhere near that garbage.

When I think of successful luxury interior mall around a multistory atrium, I think Manhattan's Far West Side.

Is Wally Fay going to buy it up on the cheap?

I’d like to say something positive about Hudson Yards. If you are wandering along the Hi Line and have to pee..... they have/had great, clean restrooms in that horrible shopping center thing. Go and then keep moving.

I liked the Spanish food hall, Mercado Little Spain. Apart from that, Hudson Yards is worse than Hitler.

R44 We do need clean odor free public restrooms, too few exist.

they start out clean ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Reminds me of a similar development up the road a piece, the soulless Waterline Apartments. At least Waterline has the Hudson Park at its feet to enjoy.

I never went near WTC until the day it fell.

The sky was so clear that day

During the summer of 2001, I was between jobs and spent a lot of time down at the WTC. Public events , some very high end were held there all year round, most free. The WTC also had a mall underground but was built 50 years ago. We still shopped in stores back then. WTC felt exciting. I didn't know until recently there was a lot of opposition to development of the twin towers for the same reasons. Too large, too expensive, neighborhood displacement, views obstructed. The WTC development felt like "real" NYC and the energy has been wrong since it's been bombed out.

[quote]Reminds me of a similar development up the road a piece, the soulless Waterline Apartments.

Ditto on that - the plaza has been a nice destination for COVID - era walks through Hudson River Park, as it has tables and seating. The water feature is pretty in the summer but the buildings themselves are hideous. They have turned that entire quarter of the West Side into an aesthetic desert.

After covid, we know we need more public accessible spaces in cities, including properly maintained public restrooms and yes, wifi!

When I climbed that “thing” at its opening, some poor Japanese tourist threw up at the top. Like a human fountain of barf sprayed into the breeze. The height and crowds didn’t agree with her recent lunch. I felt so sorry for her. She was so humiliated.

I also felt sorry for the folks below.

Ha ha ha!

R44 R45 so moral of the story is grab lunch and cruise the restrooms but say publicly you despise the place!

Turn it into low income housing.

Never been there, r56. Not even out of curiousity. Walked the highline once. Nice concept, too fucking crowded.

R51

Twin Towers was a huge boondoggle that never really was fully successful as an office building. People moaned that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey had no business going into real estate game.

In the end it took various state and NYC agencies moving into Twin Towers to not only fill space, but prod more tenants to move in, one of those tenants had disastrous results.

Rudy Giuliani as then mayor of NYC pushed to have city's emergency command center located in Twin Towers. Sadly a huge storage of fuel was also located in towers to sustain backup generators in case of power failure. On 9/11/01 when planes hit tower, fuel did what it was wont to do.....

Rudy G, and his successor Mike Bloomberg along with other elected NYC and NYS officials fought hard to ensure City of New York was included in a sweeping liability protection for many reasons, main among them was the decision to store all that fuel in one of Twin Towers.....

Radio Row once occupied area where Twin Towers was built. State used eminent domain to kick those businesses out for the project.

More on Radio Row:

[quote]Rudy Giuliani as then mayor of NYC pushed to have city's emergency command center located in Twin Towers.

Except the emergency command center was in 7 WTC

Haven't thought about events of that horrible day in ages, so went and did some research.

Yes, it was 7 WTC which did collapse and stories at time blamed fires in part on diesel fuel stored at building for NYC emergency command center. Subsequent investigation reports released much later suggest fuel stored onsite was not a great contributing factor.

$25 billion? That's not enough for New York!

Not for nothing but people who moan about the "wealthy", "tourists", and so forth in NYC need to realize one salient fact; money spent by those people is what keeps butter stuck to the bread of a majority of other NYC residents.

You've only to look around in this post covid pandemic NYC to see what the absence of people who spend liberally (or are taxed to death) means. All sorts of services and service providers from laundries/dry cleaners are shutting down for want of business. Domestic servants and others who make their living providing services to the "wealthy" have seen their work either vanish or income drop as their clients decamped for elsewhere, and or cannot/will not come to city.

Main reason both NYC and NYS didn't have nearly the predicted huge budget deficits was that Wall Street actually had a good year (2020), and that tax revenue helped. It didn't erase all NYS or NYC financial worries, but did help.

R64 it’s true, we need their money. All the talk about how cities are dead post covid because everyone can work from home does make me wonder. Won’t people who took up and left for the ‘burbs or country eventually get bored? Will they want second homes in the City to go to shows and out for fancy dinners or is everyone expecting their new towns in Wyoming or the suburbs of Idaho to provide that?

Not talking about Hudson Yards types, those are all foreign investors using their condos as a savings bank

Like they didn't see the suicides coming.

r65 I'm sure they will. Their kids certainly will. But as of now, the restaurants, the music and the arts are gone.

[quote]This development was an ill conceived, DATED evil and deserves to sink. Americans no longer shop in malls.

Even Bumfucke Flyoverstans don't shop in malls anymore, never mind coastal elites in major cities. When Hudson Yards was announced, I remember saying "do they think it's still the 90s?"

You can forget about any more public housing being built in NYC. Nobody wants poor blacks and browns around, cutting services and stopping new housing being built is an attempt to make them think twice about staying in NYC and make them go elsewhere.

If the well-off professional class can work remotely, I wonder if Manhattan becomes like Vegas. A destination full of attractions but with fewer full-time residents.

R70

Much would depend upon what sort of "well off professional" you are speaking about.

Doctors, attorneys, dentists, financial sector and some others cannot do all if any of their work from home. All one's attorney friends fled city last March or April and aren't returning until their offices fully open. Mind you these are all partners and others high up on food chain. not sure about lower level associates and other employees.

When NYC hospitals shut down elective surgeries and or for other personal reasons many physicians left city as well. But again soon as things get back to normal they will return and open their offices.

Imagine building a mall in the eras of failing malls.

R72, Only in New York, kids. Only in New York.