Christopher Plummer is DEAD TO ME

Best scene:

That one hurts.

TMZ is slipping. Usually they are the ones to first announce someone died.

Auf Weidersehen, Darling.

I bet his Georg let Max suck his Viennese schlong.

One of the few actors to win the Oscar, Emmy and Tony Award

So long, farewell, auf weidersehen, goodbye! 😢

Oh no!

Handsome Devil...

[quote]the correct format

Fuck off, you big baby. Juveniles like you are just using the fake "correct format" excuse to try to get your thread noticed instead of the original one. It's petty and stupid.

R10 = butthurt other OP who didn’t even bother to check his link

Fuck off, R10. Go on Reddit if you can’t stand the heat in this kitchen.

A blow to the head? Get to it Nancy Drews.

I'm the OP of the original thread. I've also been coming to DL long enough to know the preferred format of death notices...

Even though I fundamentally agree with R10, I appear to have initially posted a broken link (even though I copied and pasted it from a working URL). If this is the thread that takes flight, so be it.

Nah, do the ignore-dar thing if you're smart enough for it, R11. I'm not the OP.

And r12, if you can't handle being called a big baby, then I humbly suggest you're the one who needs to find a less spicy website to post on.

[quote]Christopher Plummer is DEAD TO ME

He will never be DEAD TO ME!

I love you Daddy.

Stop cunting all over my thread.

You have to get up pretty early in the morning and hone your posting skills to be a “Dead to Me” OP

r4 r7 WIEDERsehen.

He was one of those attractive men from my childhood on TV and in the movies who had an appeal to me that I couldn't quite understand. Later, it became rather obvious why I wanted to move to Salzburg. He was a very attractive man at any age.

My condolences to his family and friends.

Not Mr Grand High Poobah of Upper Buttcrack!

I'm only one person, r13, and I'm tied up right now.

Does this mean Kevin Spacey gets to play him in the biopic?

OK I'm going to get MARY'd all over for this comment but I burst into tears when I heard he died a few minutes ago. Sound of Music is my favorite movie and I just loved him. What a loss. RIP.

We were just talking about him in December with TSOM's annual broadcast.

May he rest in peace.

Cloris Leachman, Cicely Tyson, Hal Holbrook, Christopher Plummer....I guess it is true that elders do tend to fade out during the winter. The cold winter months do seem to bring on more endings.

^^ uh-oh ^^

Rather symbolic, don't you think, r27?

Remind me to bring my harmonica along to the memorial service.

Is Julie Andrews still alive?

She is R31

He was so dreamy in The Sound of Music.

I guess R31 is not watching "Bridgerton."

Michael Blakemore said Plummer got a piece of SOM but I kind of doubt it. He didn't have that kind of clout at the time. I doubt even Julie got it because Mary Poppins hadn't been released yet and on screen she was unknown and her popularity had yet to be proven. But who knows?

He was a tremendous Iago and wiped Jones off the stage. Wish I had gone to see Cyrano. One of those I could kick myself for missing something I could have seen. But his Barrymore was wonderful. He seemed to be quite full of himself and was condescending to everyone on the SOM set except Julie and probably Eleanor who he praised enormously in a Chris/Julie interview. Julie gives simply a non committal 'yes.' I wonder what the story behind that is.

This hurts. I fell in love with him when I saw TSOM . I was 5 years old and it was the first movie my mother took me to see. RIP Captain. He was handsome and sexy till the end. Heaven has one handsome angel.

My mom saw him in Stratford years ago.

From 2017 - just listen to him, he's wonderful.

No Kennedy Center Honor? After all the recent scraping of the bottom of the barrel?

Sidney (Poitier)? You in danger, girl.

Fantastically evil and impossibly sexy in Inside Daisy Clover.

I have played this daily for 2 years to help with anxiety. I know, lol. His death saddens me so.

Plummer was incredibly handsome in The Sound of Music. My ideal man...

RIP

It's hard to believe Plummer was only 35 when he portrayed Captain George Von Trapp.

Georg clearly made quite an impression on generations of young gaylings.

I loved him so much. RIP, Mr. Captain. You won't be forgotten.

Wow, so many celebrities are dying. So many famous actors are in their 80s and 90s now and are in heaven's waiting room.

The Hill are Alive.....BUT - (OP's title).

^^The Hills are Alive.....BUT - (OP's title).

(sorry)

Thanks for the link R38.

"The curtain has not yet fallen. It's simply stuck."

RIP

I can't believe you no-hopers are battling over bragging rights over who broke the news.

What, Wikipedia was down?

At least Bill Lee is waiting for him in heaven to dub Kumbayah.

Did he Rape me?

Was Max written as a gay character?

[quote] the preferred format of death notices...

Most of us wouldn't mind it if it made any sense or was funny...or clever, but it is none of these.

Horrible man. Would not formally recognize his daughter.

Has Susan Dey offered her condolences?

Has Angela Cartwright offered her condolences?

Amanda is now an orphan.

But I thought he did recognize her but simply ignored her for most of her life. She would watch SOM and it would cause her enormous pain. Like when Sachi would see Terms of Endearment.

Both Charmian Carr and Saul Chaplin in their autobios were not very generous towards him in their reminiscences of SOM.

RIP,

I want to live long like him!

I saw the Sound of Music once and thought it was lame and old-timey because I was a cynical 80s/90s child.

That said, he was a wonderful actor. Fantastic in the very underrated Dolores Claiborne and also Inside Man.

I didn’t enjoy seeing his scenes in the Sound Of Music as a child as he made feel a bit hot and bothered, when I should have been enjoying the musical loveliness of it all. Oh, and Rolfs ass didn’t help either.....

[quote]But I thought he did recognize her but simply ignored her for most of her life.

It's hard to tell because Amanda had her own level of cray-cray. But she said in an interview one time that she walked up to him in a restaurant and said, "Hello, I'm your daughter" and he wouldn't talk to her.

Strange that he and and Tammy Grimes should have produced such an utter weirdo like Amanda Plummer. Homely as a horse, she is, and has always been, certifiably crazy. And I don't think she's ever played any character in her career that wasn't mentally retarded or nuts.

Didn’t Plummer have to rebuff repeated advances by Carr? I believe she was something of a nutcake.

OP I like yours because it has an actual photo instead of informing me that a Yahoo News is part of Verizon Media.

Plummer spent the rest of his life referring to the film as “The Sound of Mucus” or “S&M.” According to PBS.

Great shot of CP on the set of Somewhere in Time by the late great Herb Ritts

Who will top him in the Oscars in memorium ?

[quote] Who will top him in the Oscars in memorium ?

Rolf.

I always wanted to top him, R71.

All this weeping over The Sound of Music, that tedious piece of drivel.....what about Mr. Plummer in THE ROYAL HUNT OF THE SUN????

You people don't know anything.

We know you're a trivial trivia scold, R74. So there's that.

[quote] in memorium

Oh, dear.

Will Kevin Spacey be taking his place at the funeral?

I've always wondered why they dubbed him with the excellent Bill Lee, who also dubbed John Kerr in South Pacific. I've heard Plummer's original tracks and he was just fine. The part was written for Theodore Bikel, who sang folk songs but was far from a trained singer. When Plummer signed on, he thought he would do his own singing and was very disappointed when they ended up dubbing him.

I can't believe my beautiful Georg is no longer here while a certain caterwauling nun turned fiance-stealing hussy still walks the earth.

RIP, hunk daddy Plummer. I fell in love with Captain von Trapp when I watched TSOM for the first time as a kid and wanted to marry him.

He fell at home a few days earlier and then passed away. I believe he was 91.

In his most famous/iconic role, The Sound Of Music.

R27: Except for Tyson, all lived in Southern California. Not exactly cold winter days. Plummer took a fall, which is a common way to go out at his age.

When i reached 60, my doctor said the exact same thing to me that Judge Judge once said her doctor told her: DON'T FALL.

Seems like those in their 90's or so are dropping like flies lately.

^ Judge Judy. I guess I started happy hour too early.

I thought he went to see Amanda in a play?

I saw her as the young woman in A Taste of Honey a very long time ago because she got great reviews. She was excellent. I think the cray cray came later.

Something must be going around, r85.

As a crazy fan of TSOM, I can't stop crying. I can't breathe.

When Julie dies, i don't think i will be fine

"Edelweiss" is, of course, a slang term for uncut cock.

He gave one of my favorite Oscar speeches ever. Oldest winner and then beat his own record two years later as the oldest nominee.

LOL... from the link of Plummer singing Edelweiss in his own voice:

Marc Woolward 3 hours ago Never heard of this man, but may you Rest In Peace.

That's big of ya, Marc.

Ya fucking idiot.

R68 He did come around in later years and had a change of heart about The Sound of Music having seen all the love that it had generated over the subsequent decades.

I think he also appeared on Oprah with the rest of the cast about 10 years ago - that be when he spoke of his change of heart about the film.

He loses points for siring an insane and homely daughter.

I've posted this before, but it seems appropriate here.

A friend of mine, now deceased, was majorly cruised one evening in a Greenwich Village bar by Christopher Plummer in the late 1950s.

My friend had a boyfriend at the time and rebuffed CP's advances, which he later regretted for years.

As a counterweight to the singing nuns, the bitchy Baroness, gay Max, closet case Rolf, the horny goatherd, and the two queer von Trapp sons, his performance is the only thing that saved the movie from being a total camp fest.

Such a dreamy looking man! Who will do Armie Hammer re-shoots now?

[quote]As a counterweight to the singing nuns, the bitchy Baroness, gay Max, closet case Rolf, the horny goatherd, and the two queer von Trapp sons, his performance is the only thing that saved the movie from being a total camp fest.

You forgot the Reverent Mother asking Maria, "What is it you cuntface?"

Amanda was a brilliant actress when her craziness wasn't in charge. She was in the original Broadcast of Agnes of God as the young nun who gets pregnant. The show's TV commercial with her dressed as a novice and looking blankly into the camera saying "Baby? What baby? I don't know what you're talking about." was legendary in New York. What's her name in the film never got anywhere near that level.

R95 That's the first I've heard of Plummer being bi but I was always convinced he had to be. But to reject him? Because of having a boyfriend? Sheer insanity. And if the boyfriend would have been upset well it would have been worth losing him over it. Your friend must have been pretty attractive to be eyed by someone as gorgeous as Plummer and could have found somebody else a lot more understanding.

^ Broadway cast, not Broadcast. Sorry, back to Happy Hour.

[quote]Seems like those in their 90's or so are dropping like flies lately.

I'm still here, bitches.

I saw Amanda in an off-Broadway play by Beth Henley about mail order brides. She played her usual semi-retarded character. Her co-star was Tess Harper.

I assume this is a fan IG account, it has the name christplummer which is amusing. When was there a Christmas scene in The Sound of Music, I can’t believe I don’t remember that???

A Von Trapp Family Christmas, that never was! Here they are gathered around the tree exchanging presents and singing Christmas carols, or were they? Is there lost footage of edited scenes? Unfortunately, No! It was all for a Christmas card. So sad.

Christopher Plummer crossed the street in front of my car ca. 2009 while I was at a stoplight. Short (like 5'7) with a giant head wearing a rumpled suit. What a brilliant actor! Even small roles like the corrupt lawyer in Syriana showcased his talent. One of the all-time greats!! I would kill to time travel back to his performance of King Lear...

[quote]Seems like those in their 90's or so are dropping like flies lately.

But those of us past the century mark are doing just fine!

I think he's very hot in the Sound of Music. And may he Rest in Peace.

TCM already has their tribute video out. And they had one for Cicely right away. But nothing for Oscar winner Cloris Leachman.

To quote my dear late mother: "That man is sex on legs. " Bless his heart. RIP Captain.

Handsome, dignified, and dapper.... a true Hollywood star. RIP

The Sound of Music originally had sequences including scenes for every holiday. Not only Christmas but Easter, Halloween, Labor Day, the 4rth of July and Washington and Lincoln's birthdays as well. Each was celebrated in song by everyone including the Baroness and Max who both performed with a harmonica and a banjo respectively on Pride weekend.

r112 Don't forget Herr Zeller in blackface for the Lincoln's Birthday scene.

Damn it. He had one of the best final acts of any actor in history. Hoped he would continue on for several more years.

Another fan of Christopher Plummer in Royal Hunt of the Sun!

Well, r115, he had the kind of figure that could make that look work. I don't.

He was a pretty damned sexy daddy in THE RETURN OF THE PINK PANTHER.

He was always sexy. But people forget what an amazing actor he was. In the original play of Royal Hunt of the Sun he played the role of Francisco Pizarro (played by Robert Shaw in the film), but took on the other leading role of Atahuallpa for the movie!

I thought the Baroness had the best lines in Sound of Music. In fact if they had it then, she'd have been on DL.

[quote] As a crazy fan of TSOM, I can't stop crying. I can't breathe. When Julie dies, i don't think i will be fine.

MARIA!!

Ernest Lehmann said the acid Baroness character was needed as a counterpoint to sweet Julie and those tedious children.

Gee, you think the folks behind the Kennedy Center Honors would be willing to move the ceremony up a few months?

But R121, I never read her as acidic. She was poignant to me. A woman well past her prime, totally incapable of being a mother to all those wild urchins, and trying with quiet desperation to seal the deal with Baron Von Trapp. She was an aristocrat, he was an aristocrat what could go wrong.

I love the Baroness! And that she knew there was a young woman who would never be a nun!

🎶 How do you solve a problem like Maria? 🎶

I used to adore him.

But for some unknown reason his first movie is never shown where I live.

^ The main problem with that movie is the the main character was so blank while the interesting actors —Joan Greenwood, Herbert and Chris were shoved into supporting roles.

R66 Carr in interviews spoke highly of him, admitted she had a crush on him, was not 16 like her character but 21, and during the long film production he taught her how to drink She seemed to feel romantically toward him. She also said that his presence in the film kept it from being too saccharine. R60 What did you hear?

I think each of the females over 5 years of age had a crush on him. How could they not, lol. I read the same about Carr, (R128) Also, Julie Andrews claimed to have had a little crush on him, but then I heard that she is family so I am a bit confused about that. He was a talented actor with a beautiful voice. They do not make them like that any longer.

R95 I'm glad you told that because I was hesitant to post the DL usual, was he gay? About 5 years ago in NYC during the afternoon I saw Christopher Plummer standing at the curb facing an adult bookstore on Eighth Avenue in midtown that had a gay male section on the second floor that had booths and for a 15 or 20 dollar entrance fee you could leave and return. The scenario in my head was that he was watching who was going in. And I am sure it was him because he was in NY promoting something and I had seen him on television 2 days prior.

Yes, R74, he was spectacular (and almost nude) in THE ROYAL HUNT OF THE SUN even if we couldn't understand what he was saying.

I adored him at first but that was tempered when I realised he had no discernment with no ability to refuse any job offers.

I was later repelled by reading his sloppy memoirs. It was obviously dictated to a male secretary and seemed interested in little else but drinking alcohol and leering at attractive females.

[quote]I love the Baroness! And that she knew there was a young woman who would never be a nun!

I wish someone would do a "Wicked" story about the Baroness and tell us the backstory of her character.

"Strangers in the Night" by Christopher Plummer's singer of Eidelweiss.

The Baroness was supposed to sing—

You millionaires with financial affairs Are too busy for simple pleasure When you are poor it is toujours l'amour For l'amour all the poor have leisure

You're fond of bonds and you own a lot I have a plane and a diesel yacht Plenty of nothing you haven't got How can love survive?

No rides for us on the top of a bus In the face of the freezing breezes You reach your goals in your comfy old rolls Or in one of your Mercedeses

How can I show what I feel for you? I cannot go out and steal for you I cannot die like Camile for you How can love survive?

Caught in our gold plated chains are we Lost in our wealthy domains are we Trapped by our capital gains are we But we'll keep romance alive

[quote]The Baroness was supposed to sing—

We decided Julie Andrews singing "I've Got Confidence" was much more interesting.

Maybe the Baroness could have a song in the sequel: The Von Trapps Flee To America and Leave The Baroness To The Nazis.

I tried to read his autobiography but it was really an account of his "era" disguised as an autiobiography so the stories of so many minor and major players clogged it up and he'd put himself in the center of the narrative as an excuse. From what I've read over the years he did a LOT for his daughter while his official stance was "I was a terrible father." Peter O'Toole gave an interview when he and Amanda Plummer were in Pygmalian together on B'way. Now POT was a cokehead at the time but at least could pull off the requirements of his role In the interview he's lamenting about Amanda Plummer, "She's crazy - she's completely crazy!" When asked why he agreed to her as a co-star he said, "Chris made me." Even though Plummer was never the star fully in his own right that some were, he worked steadily since his twenties and lent money to a lot of colleagues who went on to bigger stardom so I figured O'Toole was one of those and owed him. Plummer never talked about it.

Reportedly Plummer attempted to see the last play AP was in and walked out. Just couldn't do it. Just going by some of her interviews my suspicion is she didn't know what boundaries were when it came to him and he had to keep his distance. He's someone who kept up friendships for decades and from a distance, supported her financially and in her career. But from a distance.

I just think there had to be a really good reason. Most of the time an unhealthy situation is parent/child but I have a feeling this was a child/parent deal and he did what he could but some of her shit he wasn't going to deal with and couldn't be blamed.

Wasn't she also alienated from her mother when her mother died? And her mother was supposedly more staunchly in her corner on a personal level.

I can imagine a man being cold towards his daughter if she was a constant reminder of the wife he grew to despise.

I always found what I've read of Charmain Carr's autobiography re Sound of Music experience bizarre. She talks incessantly of Christopher Plummer, how she wasn't a child, but merely fourteen years younger than he and 7 years younger than Julie, so was their peer. Meantime she claims no affinity with the guy who played Rolph because he was a year younger.

Try as hard as she might, it was clear she and Plummer had nothing to do with each other on set of Sound of Music. She borrows what's been published and what she observed, but even a single 1964 exchange of words between them is nowhere to be found. It seems his "teaching her to drink" was her occasionally observing him and other cast/crew at the Bristol Bar. At the time she was also doing on location Salzburg promotions so she wasn't around a lot. It was a weird biography. She'll mention a boyfriend but emphasize how supportive her boyfriend's father was.

I skimmed this book (it wasn't deep) in a bookstore and was like - what is it with her? She's in her fifties and still desperate to prove she's a real live adult (although apparently childlike her entire life). Finally I realized her book had no "hook" without her claimed flirtation. She was advised to put the focus there, that's where the reviews focused, and it was probably smart although based on nothing.

He seemed to have taken it in stride but in his own book he never mentions any of the children by name, which is consistent with the rest of their accounts of working with him

[quote]Christopher Plummer (#RIP) was a last minute replacement for Richard Burton to play 'Rudyard Kipling' in John Huston's "The Man Who Would Be King (1975)". If it weren't for Sir Sean Connery's insistence & his threat of abandoning the project, Plummer wouldn't have got the role. - DepressedBergman

Off topic but Huston had enormous problems raising the money for The Man Who Would Be King. It was in development for nearly 30 years. His original choices for the two adventurers were Clark Gable and Spencer Tracy .

So young.

[quote] All this weeping over The Sound of Music, that tedious piece of drivel.....what about Mr. Plummer in THE ROYAL HUNT OF THE SUN????

Don Bluth actually let him sing in [italic]An American Tail[/italic].

R137 Saw Amanda in Pygmalion and Agnes of God on Broadway and felt the role in Agnes of God was a better fit for her.

Christopher Plummer was pissed when he saw Terence Malick's The New World because most of his scenes were cut - typical Malick though. I think more actors have ended up on the cutting room full or roles great reduced than any other director in the history of cinema.

Given it was only Malick's 4th film, perhaps Plummer was not aware of Malick's unorthodox approach to filmmaking.

[quote]I was 5 years old and it was the first movie my mother took me to see.

Me too. The Cinerama in Seattle. Forty years later we went to Salzburg together.

Nobody wants to know what was on his iPod?

He was also excellent in "The Thorn Birds" in 1983.

Someone tells a story of giving Mr. Plummer a blow job at a party in one of the recent threads on this site.

How sad this must be for you, Julie Andrews. I'm sure you'll make an excellent nun.

I cried upon hearing the news. Love him.

R139 Carr has been dead for years. Both she and Plummer were together during the interview when she revealed that she turned 21 during filming and Plummer taught her to drink.

Carr was unable to hide her feelings for CP onscreen. Rewatch their scenes - she can’t contain her attraction to him. I’ve wondered for years if they had had an affair while filming TSOM.

(96) You are hilllllarious!!!!!

He didn't teach her to drink - she watched him drink once or twice while he interacted with others. She wrote a whole book when she was a fifty something Nancy Reagan lookalike and while most of her focus was him she couldn't produce a moment they actually spoke until years later during backstage photo calls or Sound of Music reunions.. I think this was something she cooked up to sell her book. At the time of the book she was also snarky about Julie Andrews, "She wasn't there to make friends, she was there to make a movie." But years later totally changed her tune with how wonderful Andrews had been to her. When her book came out I think her PR people reached out to Andrews for a blurb and didn't get one. This must have irritated Carr. At some point it must have reached Andrews attention and she wrote a blurb, whereupon Carr's memory improved.

Yeah he was 91 years old but kind of shocked he only made it one year and change into his 90th year. He was always working and in his interviews seemed sharp. It's not usually needed to look up the cause of death of someone 91 years old but I did. Apparently his wife said he'd fallen and injured his head and that's what he'd died of. That'll do it when you're 91 (at least it wasn't Covid). Without that accident I'd have pegged him for the extreme, EXTREME old age fate - your Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip category, Dick van Dyke (95), Betty White, even Olivia de Havilland. He seemed on track to live close to 100.

Let’s face it, the Baroness never would have made it over the Alps in those shoes and the dresses she wore, not to mention she was obviously a Nazi sympathizer. She would have gladly blown that whistle just as much as Rolf did in the nun cemetery given the chance to do so.

Leave the Baroness alone - that gal had class & a total faghag!! She should have consoled herself by spying on Rolfs gorgeousness - MAMA LIKES!

Why would anyone want to look at Rolf's face though? He looked like an inbred, sulking pig. Even Uncle Max was better looking. I hope Georg and Max had a FWB arrangement with Elsa as a shared beard.

159 responses and no mention of his role in "Beginnings"? (if there is one, don't yell at me - I did a search & couldn't find it); Christopher Plummer comes out late in life & has this joyful, personal renaissance as a gay man living in San Francisco while his son, played by Ewan McGregor, struggles as an adult who grew up with a distant & absent father. The movie involves an annoying french girlfriend, which is kind of tedious, but the Plummer scenes, particularly after his death & his son tries to understand who his father really was very poignant.

I love his campy performance in TSOM. He plays it as if he's a secret serial killer in a horror movie.

Adieu to one of the first actors who gave me my first twinge of homosexuality.

Such an outpouring of love, list and affection for dear Christopher. I hope you queens do even better than this when it's my time to go.

By the way where does Maria find herself a second husband now that Georg is no more? Help me Chaise Longue, or whatever it is you lovely people call yourselves.

he was pretty good in The Silent Partner

He's also good as the Klingon who quotes Shakespeare in "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country".

RIP to a great actor. Truly one of the best.

[quote] I’ve wondered for years if they had had an affair while filming TSOM.

If they did, she's tacky enough to tell all now that he's gone.

R167, Carr died in 2016, so she won't be telling anything now.

Beginnings was sort of mentioned in his obituaries because he was labeled as Oscar winner.

No way Charmain Carr and Plummer had an affair in TSOM - doubt he knew her name back then. When her book first came out the crush on him and teaching her to drink was the PR blurb and I took it for granted as it seemed to line up with my general impression of him as this bad boy. Then during all the SOM reunions sometime back I read a lot, including her book. Her book is a cut and paste job of her family history, short SOM anecdotes and then shoveling a lot of general SOM stories in there she never saw first hand but tells as if she did.

Her book is weird and she is "off" even back then. One of the random things I read was a conversation some blog guy had with her shortly after SOM (he was telling his HW stories). He said if he didn't know how old she was, by her conversation and even appearance he'd have thought she was 12 but she was 22 or 23. He says this in a positive context because it's like she was literally born yesterday so he felt it was precious. She found out he knew Nicholas Hammond (who played Frederich in SOM) and she went on and on and on about Hammond and their close relationship. Also seemed obsessed with an uncle of hers who had some kind of status as a conductor. I know she died of dementia and got it late in life but I think she had a whole bunch of problems functioning as an adult before then. Her sister Darlene actually went on to have a solid career in television. Carr developed a crush on Anthony Perkins in her only other film, and in her books she's like, "My boss (dentist) chased me around the desk." "My boyfriend's dad was a huge support to me" - the dad got more ink than the bfriend. I think she latched onto this ideas in her head.

After reading Plummer's book I got the idea that though he had a long line up of successive liasions, companions, affairs, etc. before marrying Elaine Taylor, all the women seemed to be extremely worldly and not the crush-having type. The two craziest were his first two wives. After that he got with women where he was sort of a rest stop en route to something more permanent in their lives, which was how he wanted it. For instance, Susan Blanchard between her marriages to Henry Fonda and Michael Wager or Elizabeth Rees-Williams whose main love was Richard Harris. One affair he had when he was in a NY play in the 1950s, he describes the woman (who was not a star but did something else) constantly leaving town on different adventures while he worked. He seemed to have steered clear of clingers, ingenues and sex symbols. Richard Burton, OTOH would have notched Charmain Carr in two seconds - he loved the worship and was a womanizer. And then would have created drama running around on her.

In her book Carr mentions the story of Plummer insisting they get a double for the child who played Greta because Greta had gotten heavyweight. Car described Greta has having grown into a bombshell and was like, "Bet he'd carry her anywhere now!" But nope, that was not his apparent type at all.

When I saw the movie as a little girl I was all about Maria and the family and I saw the Captain as the spoiler. In the first half of the movie I expected he'd be defeated somehow (I didn't understand plot at the time). When he and Maria started making moony eyes I was like, "Oh no." I was convinced he just all of a sudden pretending to have a change of heart about being a good dad so he could get with Maria.

Then I watched the movie as an adult and realized I was right.

Me above saying I'm kind of shocked. For some 91 is one foot in the grave. But this guy was still working, still making public appearances and looking good, still sharp as a tack, still engaged. Recently read an interview of his from a bit over a year go. He joked about his Oscar nomination for replacing Kevin Spacey and said it was for remembering his lines. That he had been apprehensive about doing it at short notice worrying about his memory at his age, but it was fine. And that they flew private to film it, which helped. The interviewer reminded him that when he was 80ish he had said he was worried about all that he still wanted to do and if he'd run out of time, and do you still feel that way? He said no. He said, "I've gotten through my eighties" and he was pleased with all the work he did and it played out well.

There didn't seem to be any reason he couldn't keep it up for a good while. But then I'm thinking at some point age would get him and he'd be in a walker, wouldn't be working, and his wife (who is 77) would be spending her own senior years nursing him. So instead of having to go through that stage of life, he went out on top, while he still had it. Seems like he'd have preferred that to a decline even if he'd have gotten to live longer. 91 is a good age to still be on top.

Every musical version of Cyrano has been a failure, but Christopher Plummer was truly stupendous in the role in this 1973 version, where he won both the Tony and Drama Desk awards for best actor.

I love you Plummer.

TCM Remembers 😢

I wonder if Julie and Blake included Plummer in their notorious whatever-floats-your-boat orgies. Imagine fucking Maria’s cunt while getting rimmed by Captain Von Trapp!

BUMP

I do love me a correct format and elegant photo.

r176=Moron

Don't bump threads that aren't even five minutes old.

I was interested in Plummer - he was our George Burns - getting older but still completely contemporary , still working, still out there.

Betty White is 98 but the last time we saw her to my memory is on SNL when she was 88. One presumes she's spending her time dealing with extreme senior existence. Plummer just seemed to keep on cooking even at 91. One of his 1950s girlfriends, Susan Blanchard Fonda Widmark, was born in 1928 and still kicking. I thought as long as she's still around there's no reason he won't still be around and obviously outlast her - I don't think there's an image of her on the web later than the very early 1960s so I'd assume she wasn't in as good shape. Dick Van Dyke (95) recently showed up on my Tiktok feed singing for us but he's not working and Plummer was working.

Weird to think a guy at 92 went too soon but it feels like he did.

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Night, R177!

[quote]Betty White is 98 but the last time we saw her to my memory is on SNL when she was 88.

Betty turned 99 in January. She continued to make appearances after SNL, but she's been keeping a low profile for the past couple of years, understandably.

Though in my teens I had a thing for older daddies, when I watched THE SOUND OF MUSIC as a young kid, I crushed heavily on Rolf and Friedrich.

Why would a studly hunk daddy like Captain Von Trapp (in the movie, not in real life) marry a plain, prudish novice with no sex appeal? He could have had any beautiful, sexy woman he wanted.

R182 the Baroness was pretty sexy.

Are you kidding me r182? Frauline Maria brought music back into the house! She stood up to Capt. VT about the playclothes and whistles. She was an excellent landler dance partner. She also was a virgin with a killer rack and tiny waist. Come ON! What's not to love?

Daddy was lookin for a beard to cover up his thirst for Rolf - those nasty Nazis wouldn't go for a naval captlain who had a hot twink in the side. He would have sent Maria to bed, singin her lil heart out, then a big butterfly net to catch Rolf in the garden when he calls with a hot delivery!!!!!!

I recently rewatched "16 Going on 17" on YouTube and hadn't realized what a bubble butt Rolf has on him. Shame on me.

Rolf had an ugly face though, so I hope Daddy Von Trapp had a better looking lover. A handsome hunk and his choices are a prissy, virginal, sexless Maria or a pig-faced Nazi like Rolf? He might as well settle for the Baroness.

Has there been a porn version of TSOM called something unoriginal like "The Sound of Huge Dick" and focusing on the Captain getting it on with Rolf and Max and other Nazis while Maria sews curtains out of the children's clothes and has an affair with the baroness?

Only in your fevered dreams hon!!

Plummer was also good in "The Fall of the Roman Empire" (1964) as the creepy Roman emperor Commodus:

The SOUND OF MUSIC sing-a-long at the Hollywood Bowl was part of my summer ritual....up until 2020. R.I.P. dear "Captain".

William Shatner, who was Plummer’s understudy at the Stratford Festival in the 1950s left a nice tribute on Twitter:

91 is a long life but he had no reported illness prior to hitting his head and falling down. So because he was 91 he was just put into his own bed at home and left to die of an epidural hemotoma like Natasha Richardson? What did his wife do - drag him down the hall and get a housekeeper (Dolores) to help her hoist him onto the mattress, cover him up and wait?

Just interested as to how falling, hitting your head but staying home and dying of it a few days later looks like and what was the decision process. Did she call 911? Was he taken to the hospital, looked over and they said - too risky to drain the bleed - best just hospice him and let him be at peace?

Curious if she'll sell the place in Connecticut. I think upthread someone said most of the recent celebrity elder deaths happened in L.A. Plummer lived in Weston Connecticut in a pretty huge place I remember thinking was pretty large for a senior couple on their own>

I didn't believe most of Plummer's autobiography. From time to time an article would appear noting Frank Sinatra didn't sing at such and such a place at the time Plummer claimed to have witnessed some anecdote or other, that this or that place had closed by the time Plummer was in New York, and other timelines. A couple of years ago I saw a youtube doc on Natalie Wood with Robert Redford narrating, and then another on the making of Daisy Clover and it looked to me as if in his book Plummer lifted his entire on set friendship with Natalie from Redford and made it his own. And I expect he did that out of actor's ego because while discussing the movie and Wood Redford always referred to Plummer's character, never Plummer. Always "The Studio Chief." Bios of Wood also report a very close friendship with Redford. I used to read a lot about that era and when I read Plummer's book I'd seen a lot of the stories before only he was telling them as if they happened to him.

Plummer wasn't that famous back in the 1950s but after reading his autobiography you'd expect every famous name of the era to feature him in a starring role in their autobiographies - he seems to have been everywhere.

OTOH two terrifying events happen to him and he kind of treats them in a breezy tone.. He and his then girlfriend, British journalist Trish Lewes, were driving down London's mall - racing down the mall - she's behind the wheel.. Safe assumption is both were drunk. The car ends up wrapped around a pole. He ends up standing on the sidewalk unscathed, she's severely injured and taken to the hospital where she's in a coma for awhile, head shaved, brain surgery, some massive metal contraption around her head. When she's still in the hospital with the metal frame on but on the mend he marries her then immediately - like hours later - takes off from England to work on a movie. Trish appears intermittently after that where they seem to fight and then go their separate ways. He says the accident destroyed their passion and she started drinking even more, the end. I've never been able to find out what happened to her and I've always thought it was really amazing that convertible crashed (and clearly neither were wearing seatbelts) when the driver was almost fatally injured but the passenger is ejected without a scratch and literally lands on his feet. Small sports car. Isn't it usually the other way - the person riding shotgun gets the worst of it?

Anyway he tells the whole story of the accident with lots of exclamation points like it's entertainment. The women he went with were tough, I'll say that.

When Grimes was in labor with Amanda he went to a bar and then a restaurant with friends, had a great time and then belatedly remembered what was going on. To be fair he left because of the era, Grimes had a low pain tolerance or tolerance period, so it seemed better he get out of the way. Forgetting though, and having to rush back seems OTT.

When they were in their middle years (granted he was fourteen years older than she was) he and his last wife Elaine first lived in Connecticut on the waterfront, but it was broken into while they were asleep and they were robbed at gunpoint in their beds. And oh well, that was a thing that happened

Strange book.

[quote]Who will top him in the Oscars in memorium ?

Bitch, please.

R130

Sure, Jan.

r195 There is also Sean Connery.

James Bond does not top Melanie Wilkies. Especially since she was about a million years old when she finally carked it.

[quote]James Bond does not top Melanie Wilkies. Especially since she was about a million years old when she finally carked it.

She was also a two-time Oscar winner as best actress.

And a real bitch.

I'm surprised that you, R65, or any of the other eldergayts haven't come out with any anecdotes about Tammy Grimes.

I thought she'd be a "DL favourite" for all her cam voice and kooky ways.

Christopher Plummer to the Titanic thread in six degrees of separation:

Christopher Plummer -> Tammy Grimes -> Unsinkable Molly Brown (Broadway) -> Titanic

Or:

Plummer--Dolores Claiborne--Kathy Bates--Titanic

I still want to know how it happened. The short answer is "He was 91" but he's been working pretty much nonstop and for that you need to pass the insurance physical. A stroke or a heart attack or Covid, ok, but hit his head a few days before and died at home is a WTF to me. They still take you to the hospital even when you're 91.

It takes a long time to die. A close relative lives in a luxury retirement community and there are people living in the apartments on her floor who are in their 90s and still in the independent living campus without CNAs. One guy just passed 101 and walks up and down the hallway with perfect posture in his walker and he's very on the ball. OTOH one member of her social circle died last year at 94 and the process was he started to fade a bit at 90, needed a CNA with him every day so he wouldn't fall, and had a couple of short-term hospitalizations along the way. Then he'd revive and be out and about but you knew he was going. Still it took four years. He was finally hospiced in the hospice center and died about six weeks later. The celebrities in extreme old age we haven't seen may be going through that now - Betty White, Dick van Dyke, other people born in the 1920s. I'd be WTF too if Ed Asner abruptly kicked it - he's 91 and a beast on twitter and has also been working.

Oh well haven't seen any further details beyond the obits, not even funeral/memorial service.

[quote] I still want to know how it happened

I suspect alcohol.

Every page of his memoir mentions nymphets and alcoholic spirits.

He aged well because he had good bones.

Pretty boys like Brad and Matt will be unemployable when they're 65

You think he was drunk fell down and hit his head? But my point is even at 91 if you receive a traumatic head injury you go to the hospital. You don't have a blow to the head, fall down (in that sequence from how it's reported), then get put to bed until you meet your maker a few days later.

I don't want to know how he got the blow to his head and fell - he's 91. Although blow to the head and THEN falling is kind of hmmmmm. It's just going to bed until he dies of it that doesn't make much sense. How about a doctor or hospital?

No nymphets in his book - not his type. Socialites, actresses and eccentrics, most of them with solid priors married or hooked up with other high profile men. He seemed to steer 100% clear of ingenue types (like a Susan Strasberg or Claire Bloom) and bombshells - the pneumatic sex symbols of the day.

Michael Caine was on Letterman years ago and when Letterman asked how much he drank at his height he said three bottles of vodka - that was the hard stuff - don't think he counted wine or cocktails.

Tagging this on so I don't overpost. At some point years back I read a few interviews with Amanda Plummer. Two of them were very sex-focused and how aware she was of penises when she was a young child. It came up when she was describing some very nice movie star who tossed her around in a pool when she was four or something and even then she was aware (no implication he was doing anything wrong). Some of it came across as the slant of a woman who was always homely and never considered sexy hyping her sexuality to compensate. Something about it and the other eccentricites made me wonder if she ever tried to be freaky or inappropriate with her father - and after that the wall came down. He wrote a lot of checks and got her jobs, much as she tried to pretend she was on her own and got cast in Month in the Country (with her mother) by accident. Pygmalian was a job her dad got her. And gave her money. Paid for all of her school fees. But just could stand to be around her. There's a couple of photos from the 1980s where he looks like he wants to kill himself when he's around her. Yes he's a weird guy in many ways but he kept up longterm friendship and was very generous financially with a decent sense of humor. IF she were a regular daughter it's not like she'd expect him to parent her but a couple of cordial vistis or interactions a year seem well within what he'd be fine doing, unless he had reasons not to.

Everyone wants to talk about Leisel but it was Brigitta that is more interesting. She was married to hubba hubba Robert Ulrich until he died.

[quote] freaky or inappropriate

That seems to describe Tammy Grimes, R207

And the Baroness...

I saw the Oprah reunion show where Julie had a vise grip on Charmain's hand so she wouldn't go to Crazy Town, I guess. And Charmain was SHORT. Plummer is there as well. So Oprah says to Charmain, you say Christopher taught you to drink. Is that true? And Charmain sings out YES!

But there's nothing. She just talks about how he had this great British accent (yes British - he was Canadian and using the same midAtlantic inflections everyone in the movie but Julie used), how handsome he was, how sophisticated, how he played the piano beautifully, etc. Plummer was looking ahead I think trying to figure out where he could fit in a one liner. It was actually kind of embarrassing because Charmain didn't have an anecdote of him actually teaching her to drink - it was all - well I was googly eyed whenever I saw him! . Finally Plummer goes, "What was your room number!"

I don't think he got her at all. She had no instances of him teaching her to drink - just how impressed she was by all things him, but it was all past tense. Julie, holding her hand, kept saying "is - IS a wonderful piano player!!" because Charmain was talking like he was (already) dead. Oprah mercifully wrapped it up saying like, "Well you were 21." and got out of the segment. It was kind of like every time she opened her mouth the rest were like, "Uh oh."

It would have been a darker movie if Amanda Plummer had played Marta.

I think Charmian's issues stemmed from her parents fucking with the spelling of a perfectly good name to make it unique.

It was reported she died of dementia but can you have dementia or be dementia-adjacent her entire life? It's kind of sad because based on the whole thing - her reporting her crush on Plummer and pretending they flirted, her exclaiming she'd have loved Sean Connery to have played the captain (he was apparently in the running) cause hubba hubba, her carefully telling us her boss wanted her and her boyfriend's dad took a special interest, her dismissal of "Rolf" cause he was a year younger, her focus on her famous uncle, her crush on Anthony Perkins etc., and then when it's time to get married she marries a dentist and it doesn't even last. Never seen a picture but have a feeling he didn't measure up to her fantasies.

According to her book her sister Darlene was on the lot as a singer and was asked to test for Liesel, but couldn't pass for sixteen. I think then Charmain's mother recommended Charmain. Darlene ended up working on SOM as one of the back-up voices they used to amplify the children's singing. And then she went on to a career in television.

Charmian wasn't a complete idiot She ran a successful interior design firm for among others Michael Jackson. She had a long marriage and raise 2 children. Yes, she may have suffered from some arrested development like so many model-actress types but she wasn't on a steady diet of pablum ffs.

Michael Jackson hired her because he was obsessed with Liesel.

Most likely but I am sure she was well paid.

Amanda Plummer plays Catherine De Medici in "Nostradamus" (1994).

It's a good thing Julie Andrews keeps going and going or some actors would never get a proper public send off. She and Plummer were first called upon when Eleanor Parker died in 2013. Parker was also 91. The announcement featured fulsome quotes from both Andrews and Plummer. If they weren't around to extol her in a flowery manner, if they both didn't still have media clout, she'd have passed into the ether like Olivia deHavilland. DeHavilland was obviously a much more famous, storied actress but at 104 or whatever it was, there was no one left but her manager or rep or secretary who actually had a history with her so it was sort of - here's the obit, hale and farewell. Then came Charmain Carr. If Plummer and Andrews weren't around I don't know if her obit would have been anything but a local footnote. Both weighed in extremely kindly and got headlines for her demise.

Don't know what happened with Heather Menzies - perhaps the media didn't reach out. I feel if they'd been alerted/requested both Plummer and Andrews would have delivered; particularly Andrews who also worked with Menzies in "Hawaii."

James Garner dies and whose quote gets the feature? Andrews. He worked with every single person in the business who was around from about 1940 on, that statement is just about literal, and had a long run on The Rockford Files in the 1970s and 1980s, but who marks his passing and ensures a headline? Andrews.

Predictably Andrews would take the lead on Plummer as they go back so far and had affiliations I'd never heard of until a few years ago - not only a rewritten account of how/when they met but also some "Christmas tour" they did a few times - a literal bus and truck stop tour in their mid-senior years where they'd do some sort of Xmas song/whatever presentation. Andrews described it as literally changing in public restrooms. Not what I picture either of them doing and neither needed the money but it sounded like fun. However, other than Andrews and a nice tweet from William Shatner, the only peers left to tweet or issue a statement were a couple of co-stars in one off film projects of recent vintage.

I don't know who is left to go (besides herself) where she will be called upon, but she does a good job and guarantees a headline for the deceased.

Andrews will probably live to give the eulogy at Kym Karath's funeral...

Surprised he was so short. Always thought of him the classic tall, dark and handsome. I saw him and Andrews on youtube on the Rosie show from 2000 when he was 70 (He was born in Dec '29 so that's about right). and I thought - oh man, he's short! Or has shrunk - although 70 is a bit young to shrink. His height morphs all over the place in SOM and he wears 2 inch heels. In the first intro "whistle" scene Julie is positioned upstage of him while they're facing each other so in the camera lens he comes off taller. But in the interiors of the party scene there's one medium shot from the Baroness and Max's POV where he's talking to guests and I'm like - wait - how short is he? And in one scene he barely clears Eleanor Parker. Yet in other scenes he's well taller than her and taller than Julie. Must be heels.

It's the Hollywood smoke and mirrors. Every leading man says they are 5"10 if they are under 6'0. Women also are never 5'2 they are always at least 5'6. Believe me...when he walked in front of my car he was 5'7 or 5'8 with an overly large head. Large melons are also a standard feature of big stars. Something about how it plays to the camera.

R222 thanks. I always thought he was at least 5'10" because in terms of proportions he had a classic "regular build." But as I said a few times when I'd re-watch my favorite SOM scenes - and the one right before "intermission" is one of them, there's a shot of the Baroness and Max looking at Georg amidst the guests. and each time I'd be - wait - he's short? He looks really short there! Like a sort of 3/4th scale soldier or something. I did notice he had "high" heels on his shoes/boots a couple of times, like the very first scene. And in some candid still of the SOM movie premiere, he's no taller than Julie and presumably Julie is wearing heels but not stilettos.

I enjoyed watching him on talk shows and interviews in his later years, but each time I would have a complete disconnect between this very attractive, endearing and intelligent, funny older gentlemen and the Sound of Music guy. Both were handsome but a lot of shots in SOM were looking up at Georg or other sleights of hand I guess, so that image didn't match with the later Plummer.. who was compact. Also a disconnect because he kind of seemed like he should be tall but wasn't. Tom Cruise, another shortie, does not look like he should be a tall guy.

Merv Griffin used to talk about the head thing. I guess his own noggin was big. He'd hired Vanna White for Wheel of Fortune and said she looked "right" on camera because she had a huge head. I can think of other instances.

I thought he was taller too.

A lot of attention is given to the stereotypical excesses described in his autobiography, but he seems to have been a generous person. If something good he did for someone had already been publicized - such as Donald Sutherland, years ago, reporting that Christopher Plummer gave him thousands to get back to California for his MASH (movie) audition. He was working abroad and couldn't afford it and Plummer gave it to him. In this case, Plummer mentions it in his autobiography (in passing). If it's not publicized, then Plummer didn't bring it up in his autobiography. I had to read an hilarious vintage article about a coked up Peter O'Toole in absolute despair during the run of Pygmalian with Amanda Plummer to find out Plummer got Amanda the job (so while he apparently couldn't bear her and probably for good reason, he did his fatherly responsibilities from afar). I think Plummer had $$ despite not being a big star even after SOM (and until .... The Insider? Where he played MIke Wallace when Plummer was 69), He was just prolific. When Tammy Grimes died a number of years ago I read some archived stuff on her. I was curious because I didn't get why she'd been a star, even if it was mostly stage. Anyway, a reporter spends a day and evening with her during which she's gabbing a mile a minute and at some point they land in a restaurant where her ex, Christopher Plummer, is dining with somebody. Tammy cranes her neck and is like, "Oh, she's ugly!" (Projecting?) Then she mentions somebody else and says, "Chris lent him 7k". So even back in the 1950s-1960s if he had it he'd share it.

In the 90s in a review of the play "Barrymore" John Simon declared Plummer, "the greatest living actor in the English language." Sorry, I never saw him apart from his film work.

I watched Beginners the other night. Plummer was fantastic and deservedly won the Oscar. McGregor was good in it but I wish the whole film had been about Plummer's character. I couldn't wait for the film to return to Plummer.

He was an incredible actor and also the rare engaging interview like Richard Harris and O'Toole. Of course their egos were enormous but you put up with it because of their brilliance.

Simon was inconsistent. He eviscerated Plummer years earlier in MacBeth (an ill-starred production with Glenda Jackson as Lady MacBeth). He set too much store, IMO, upon classical looks and a classical voice.

There's a foreign language movie now in numerous parts on youtube that is the story of the Von Trapp Family singers. Filmed before SOM - in the late fifties I think. In color. Basically the Sound of Music without music, and I think German language. It departs from SOM in that we see them married afterwards and they have another baby. It also adheres to Maria Von Trapp's book more as far as the proposal and how she claims she accepted. He asks, she goes off to the convent and the Reverend Mother tells her God wants her to be the mother to these children. She comes back and he waits to see what the Rev. Mother says and she says, "She says I have to marry you." kind of crying and he gives her a hug. Nothing close to "Sometimes when we look at each other I can hardly breathe."

You can see why SOM went with Plummer and Plummer wanted to give the Captain an edge. It wasn't just actor's ego. It was such a bland part. In the movie Maria is sort of a rosy cheeked, confident young Fraulein and the Captain is very fatherly. In the Broadway show I guess Mary Martin ran rampant and the Captain was folksy. Now while the issue of Plummer and singing may have driven Saul Chaplin and the production crazy, the screenwriter Ernest Lehmann loved him and took on board all Plummer's notes. I read some of them on line and what they really show is Plummer found specific things to help tell the story, make it more of a love story, and define the Captain better. One is that the interaction between the Baroness and the Captain should be a constant flow of glib conversation, so that when the Captain says, "Elsa - it's no use, you and I." on the balcony, it hits. It's meant to be the first time we hear him address her plainly, without a shallow social veneer. That was all Plummer's idea.

Oh, in the play and in the non-musical film the Baroness kind of exits on her own so the Captain doesn't really make a choice. The Nazi thing drives a wedge between them. So another thing Plummer wanted was for the Captain to choose.

R229 this makes me love Plummer for his brilliance even more! Thanks for that info about Capt. von Trapp's character development!

Altho he deserves his own thread, here is an incredible Tonight Show appearance where during an interviewing Harris' then wife Ann Turkel, Carson loses control and actually leaves the stage...by the fire exit no less...and Harris takes over. LOL. Everyone is high as a kite...scrub to 5:30 to see the best part.

Ann Turkel was a natural beauty; she & Harris remained friends after their divorce. Sadly unrecognizable today, after too much work.

She was a great beauty, altho not a great actress, but fun in these interviews of the time!

R229, yep, I found out how dire the SOM play really was. Before she did SOM, Julie Andrews and Carol Burnett made fun of it in one of their specials. Charmain Carr's book was odd but she reports at one point much of the cast saw the play, and came out absolutely depressed, thinking their movie had no chance. It was only when a few of them saw a selection of rushes - the opening sequence in the alps and the Do Rei Me sequence, that everybody got excited.

Plummer is really mocking the play when he mocks the movie. In the play Maria practically drags the kids AND the Captain up the mountains. "I know - we'll escape via the mountains!" Captain: "Maria, are you sure?" Maria: "Let's go!!!"

While Shirley Jones was talked about at one point, the thing was really going to always be a Julie Andrews vehicle. Early mentions for the Captain reflect conventional ideas about SOM - Bing Crosby. Julie Andrews had worked with him in 1956 on TV in High Tor - he'd asked for her after seeing her in The Boyfriend and it was her first filmed production. You can see how folksy and conventional with no tension it would have been with Crosby, plus he was quite a bit older than Andrews. Yul Brynner pitched his ass off to be the Captain. Then they must have all been, forget the seven kids - we need someone closer to Julie's age for sexual tension! That's when they started testing people like Keith Mitchell, a stage actor. Probably how Plummer came into the picture. He and Andrews actually knew each other despite early stories they'd never met before SOM. Supposedly she suggested him, mentioned he lived in London and the production reached out to his people.

Because he has an anti-SOM reputation to live up to, people think Plummer hated the things people loved most about it. He's the one who put in a lot of the stuff people loved most. He didn't want the Captain led around by the nose. He wanted them to be partners and have the Captain choose his life. That's where it all came from. In a video I saw in youtube he talked a little bit about it and then finished up almost in exasperation, "After all it's supposed to be a love story!" He didn't hate the romantic aspects at all. He really hated Mary Martin in a dirndl running all over the stage wiping the floor with Theodore Bikel.

For a perspective on Plummer's height, scrub to 3:55 to see gazebo shot from SoM where Plummer looks 5-6 in. taller than Andrews...and then right after, see their entrance to Oprah's stage - same height.

NYT on Plummer's Lear...look at this face, hair, countenance! I'm not this believable in real life, FFS.

Right R236? For a long time I couldn't figure out why, although Plummer and Andrews' friendship was adorable, I couldn't for the life of me connect the guy from the movie with her dear friend from the 1990s, 0s and 10s. Now I realize it was height. He had a leading man face on a Roddy McDowell, Johnny Carson physique. Also explains why so many of his personal life love interests were gamine, petite types. At some award show, Nina Arianda mentions how she had such a crush when the captain blew his whistle, then out comes Plummer who barely clears her shoulder.

He barely clears Andrews at the SOM premiere. The party sequences in SOM is where the height thing falls apart. He and the Baroness side by side and he's hardly taller than she is. And Eleanor Parker was SHORT. Watch her in Scaramouche sometime coming out for a dance thing in high heels looking like a munchkin. Then he and Andrews dance, and he's comfortably taller than she. Then he and the Baroness re-join, walking back into the party, and they're both wee. The Baroness and Maria have their tete a tete (with Parker shorter than Andrews). After sending Maria off, the Baroness comes back downstairs to the party and is side by side with Max. They're both looking at the Captain and vis a vis his guests he's petite.

A lot of the shots of Plummer were pitched low, looking up at him; I guess to enhance his height. I wonder if any of this is responsible for his supposed moodiness and occasional insecurity. For one thing, he looked and sounded the part of a stage actor - had natural attributes. Face, body lines, vocal quality, an intelligence that could understand verse. OTOH he was completely untrained at at times IMO it shows. He learned by doing. It might be weird to be this super handsome dude but lacking about the 6" you need to really pull of the devastating heartthrob thing, but using every trick in the book.

Incidentally, after she died I tried to look up more on Eleanor Parker. She only mentioned the SOM in one thing I could find, where she describes the role as a sort of light villainess. Mostly she seemed frustrated at her Hwood career. She was not a bare knuckle fighter, so at times when she'd get a great part she'd be undermined by her leading man. Glen Ford really fucked her over in Interrupted Melody. Everything he wanted to upstage her he got. If she were a tougher person I think she could have begun earlier in glamorous women of a certain age parts that steal the show, such as Jo Van Fleet's role in East of Eden. I used to think they were the same person.

R238 IMO height has little to do with performance unless it is SO obvious in either direction (e.g., Danny DeVito, Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson) that it is distracting and you have to explain or use it as part of the character. This Hollywood smoke and mirrors of heightening male stars is as old as the industry itself, and in the same vein as ensuring women are hairless (except on heads) and everyone is 30 lbs underweight. For men, the height requirement is ridiculously unfair as it propagates the notion that a powerful/handsome man must be tall. This is nonsense as we all know. On stage, an actor of Plummer's mid-range, average-ish height would not matter. What matters most on stage for actors is presence - itself a glamour - for which a big GIANT head, booming voice and lithe body are the primary ingredients.

Re: Eleanor Parker. I always wondered why she wasn't a bigger star. Perhaps she had no need to be. She was spot on as the passive-agressive Baroness in SoM, and also really good in Caged (a great film), as a female prisoner. I don't really know her other work, shame on me! I will bone up courtesy of TCM hopefully next opportunity.

Perhaps not a great source, "Screenwriting from Iowa" but there is a quote here from movie stars having big heads. It has been mentioned other places, but I am too lazy to google more:

"Most major movie stars have one distinguishing characteristic. Their heads are large in a way that is out of proportion with their bodies. McQueen, Newman, Stallone, etc. Director Norman Jewison called move stars’ heads ‘Roman.’ The camera likes the perspective that a large head gives to an actor. In person, it looks a little unnatural, but onscreen, the large head allows them to dominate. "

When I was studying drawing and costume design I was taught that most people have similar sized heads but the size of the head to the rest of the body was a good indicator of overall height, or lack of it. Children often have adult size heads but small bodies. These are all visual clues that most people are subconsciously aware of but don't really realize.

Many movie stars and especially television stars have big heads but some movie stars have actually tiny heads. Myrna Loy of The Thin Man was relatively tall for her era (5'6") but had a long neck and a teensy head - at least compared to other stars.

R239, I agree with you and don't. Plummer was classical looking from the top of his head to the tips of the lifts in his shoes - I think it was a detriment for him, although as you point out, he had many compensations and used them.

OTOH for a completely opposite actor such as, for example, Desi Arnez Jr., it didn't matter that he was - what? 5'6? He had macho for days and a virility and handsomeness. No he wasn't a star outside of I Love Lucy, but he was a type where it didn't matter. With Plummer I think it did. But for Arnez, no need to use smoke and mirrors to pretend he was taller.

I think height matters depending on your type. A 5'7" Cary Grant wouldn't have worked. A 5'7" Robert Mitchum wouldn't have worked. A 5'6" Spencer Tracy? Fine. A 5'6" Alan Ladd? That's ok. Yul Brynner with his exotic handsomeness and build, it was also ok.

However in the classical realm, to which Plummer belonged, IMO he was an outlier. Good for him that most people didn't realize or didn't pay attention.

Desi Arnaz, Jr. never appeared on i Love Lucy, only on Lucy's later shows.

No one has mentioned his Herod Antipas in JESUS OF NAZARETH, but he manages to deliver a truly great performance while still camping it up in a seeming nod to the traditional Hollywood biblical epics. That's not easy.

R243 are you out of your mind? Of course he appeared In I Love Lucy.

[quote]Desi Arnaz, Jr. never appeared on i Love Lucy, only on Lucy's later shows

Desi Jr. made exactly one appearance on ILL. He's one of the spectators at the unveiling of the statue in the very last episode. He had no lines and was uncredited.

Perhaps R245 is thinking of child actor Keith Thibodeaux, aka Richard Keith, who played Little Ricky.

It is amazing how many people think Desi Jr. played Little Ricky.

I was actually thinking Desi Arnez, not junior.

Who was not a tall man, but a handsome, macho one.

r239 - Parker was a fine actress, but she didn't have a distinct beauty, persona or mannerisms to set her apart. I saw her in the national tour of APPLAUSE and while game, she wasn't what I would call an electric Margo. On the flip side, Bacall wouldn't have been able to do Interrupted Melody, Caged, or Detective Story. Betty definitely could have done the Baroness though.

In ten minutes Bacall would have had Maria Von Trapp running back to the convent singing "I Have No Confidence".

lol, r250

[quote] Michael Blakemore said Plummer got a piece of SOM but I kind of doubt it.

R35 are you asking if Plummer got a share of the profits rather than a flat fee?

Did Julie make more from the soundtrack sales?

[quote] Was Max written as a gay character?

I have been assuming that Lehmann was gay, but I may be confusing him with that man involved with Farley Granger.

I don't know if the Max character was supposed to be gay. I see him more as a Kato Kaelin little pet of the rich Baroness and the Capt. I doubt Capt. Von Trapp would have had a Kato that was also gay. Not good for his naval image!!

Of course Max is supposed to be gay. But the show and film were written back in the days when things were still coded. The actors would have have told, yes, you're gay, but not too flamboyant.

I love old movie melodramas, sometimes better than classics. Recently re-watched "Home from the Hill" which features Robert Mitchum and Eleanor Parker as a long-estranged married couple, their son (George Hamilton) and Mitchum's illegitimate son (George Peppard).

Parker kind of plays the sympathetic Hannah and it gets a little cringe-y at a few hyper emotional Douglas Sirk-y moments and she had a lot of vocal mannerisms. She also had an elegant face perfectly built for villainesses and a tiny super skinny body. I don't think she had the fire to pull those off. If you look back at SOM, which I did recently, the Baroness is actually rather nice. She's amused at the children spilling from the rowboat and taken aback by the Captain's somewhat violent reaction, she gets herself out of there without any smirking when the Captain prepares to rip Maria a new one, and you can hardly blame her for getting her back up when the Captain begins openly mooning over Maria in her presence.

While she wasn't a mega talent, I think she didn't become a star because she kept getting cast on her looks - i.e., her "type", and her physical type was the opposite of her temperment. I don't think she had a huge affinity for a lot of her roles. She's very good in Voice of the Turtle though, playing an ingenue type opposite Ronald Reagan. Margaret Sullavan played the role on stage and played more roles like that in film. Parker didn't get to.

The captain and the Baroness break it off the same evening the Captain proposes to Maria. I wonder how that worked. Did she get the butler to drive her back to Vienna? It's 295 kilometres!

I had lust in my heart watching The Sound Of Music. Christopher Plummer was my first crush.

Parker actually reminds me of Joan Fontaine. Fontaine was in some good movies and was good looking but she's the one actress whenever I see an old studio portrait of her I'm thinking - ok, who is that? It's always her! I know she won an Oscar and was in Rebecca and Jane Eyre and other high profile films, but she's still kind of generic and IMO doesn't have star looks or personality. Parker is a little like that as said up thread. I really think the costumes and the white blonde wig did half the acting job. Two in particular - the suit with the bow on the hip - giving Parker a silhouette and shape, while also exploiting her slenderness, and of course the gold dress with the big pouff on the shoulder. The designs gave her figure elegance and femininity.

Dorothy Jeakins was one of the most underrated costume designers in film and Broadway history. r259. Nobody remembers her but they sure remember her clothes.

I just looked her up R260. She won an Oscar or two and sidelined in her films doing bit parts. For instance she played Sister Augusta in Sound of Music.

Some of the sleight of hand Jeakins did for Parker in SOM evoke some of the tricks done for Vivian Leigh in GWTW and in general. As Parker was so skinny (and not buxom either) the trick was to exploit her slenderness while finding was to break it up, get some feminine "s" curves in there without cluttering it up. And also lengthening her lines. As I mentioned before the first suit with the hip bow and the gold evening dress with the net pouff on one shoulder - and the long white gloves - are using the same trick to break things up. Then in the Goatheard scene her long skirt and drapey blouse soften her silhouette and create a long line, and then she has this very wide, very snug cumberbund-type waistband so you notice the tiny waist.

In one of the costume test shots of Maria, Captain, Baroness and Max, Parker is in a long shirtwaist type dress with a regular tied waist line and she looks almost frumpy. She needed the drama to set her off.

I remember Fred Voelpel saying that TSOM was Jeakins' masterpiece.

Something I found unusual about Plummer. From the Sound of Music to when he was in his fifties - so I guess the 1980s - he looked like Version 1 of Christopher Plummer. SOM was 30something Plummer, Thornbirds and Othello was obviously the same guy only now fiftysomething. FF To Dolores Claiborne in the early 1990s and who the hell is that? Most actors when "I wouldn't have recognized him/her" it's because they went to seed or aged terribly. Not him. He was the exact same dude, aging just fine, and then here comes the 1990s and he's a whole different person. A dapper, handsome, twinkly senior citizen. Occasionally he'd let himself play a wreck but most of the time it's "Christopher Plummer can still get it!" but it's a whole different guy. He even sounds totally different.

Vanity Fair did a profile of Olivia deHavilland a few years ago - she'd passed 100 or even 101 or 102. I'd still know it was Melanie. Stout, old, but the same eyes, forehead, facial expressions. Saw Dick van Dyke briefly on my tiktok fyp singing a fragment or two of a verse. Looked exactly like Dick van Dyke. Exactly like Rob Petrie. Sure, a version a breeze could blow away into powder, but obvioiusly the same guy.

I looked up a pic of Plummer looking for a "big head" picture and I think I found it. He was in L.A. for a hand and foot print ceremony with Shirley McClaine and William Shatner lending support. McClaine looked like an old Miss Kubelick or a 30 years on Aurora, Shatner looked like a bloated Captain Kirk. Plummer didn't look like any version of his younger or early middle-aged self.

His suit WAS rumpled so wondering if this was the occasion he crossed the street. Kind of pinkish toned pants that were too long, a dark blue shirt unbuttoned at the neck, and a gray jacket that could only close at the top. It looked a little saggy and baggy. From multiple angles his head looks enormous, particularly a 3/4ths profile.

This one, R263? His head looks normal sized to me but he does look rumpled and dishevelled here.

This was not the occassion when he walked in front of my car as it happened in Canada and it was a chilly grey Fall day. His suit was navy and when I say rumpled I mean like been thrown in a suitcase for 5 days rumpled. And when I say giant head I mean like a skinny rumpled navy pez dispenser with Christopher Plummer's head on top crossing the street!

Check out the giant head below left. You need to see a partial side view to really appreciate the cranium. Think of all the lines stored in there!

Thanks R265. Yeah it's the partial side view I'm talking about. Head on it doesn't look so large. There's a black and white partial side view from the TCL event with McClaine and Shatner where he looks like an escapee from the hobbit set. I mean full on troll doll, in the most amiable way.

R265 do you remember approximately what year it was?

R260 I remember Dorothy Jeakins because she appeared on camera playing Max Von Sydow's sister (or mother?) in that awful mess called 'Hawaii' in 1966

[quote] His suit was navy and when I say rumpled

I read his memoir and was VERY disappointed because it gave the impression he was comatose with alcohol every second day.

[quote] Vivian Leigh

No, R261, it's Vivien Leigh.

She was a woman. All woman.

I read his memoir in spurts but there is nobody alive who could read every word. He really wanted to do a chronicle of his times so every second paragraph he'd veer off into a full biography and character study of some random with whom he'd crossed paths. Many times it was obvious he was borrowing someone else's experience or story. He left as much of himself out of his autobiography as possible, and that was a lot. He'd go on pages about choices he'd make for a role, but for himself, he steered clear. A lot in it was suspect.

The alcohol was just par for the course for the times. All of his peers - many bigger stars than he was - were massive drinkers. What threw me off was the money. I could never track his financial circumstances. He was an untrained actor who looked and sounded classical leading man and was intelligent enough to make sense of language, so from a young age he worked on radio, then kind of fodder for aging grandees (like the Christopher Reeve of his day vis a vis Katherine Hepburn), but he didn't really make the big bucks. Did a soap opera at the old CBS studios. I try to track this stuff and think - oh, he's really on his uppers, and then he'll say, "I coped with the boredom by buying a [some kind of Jaguar] and letting a house in [some sort of NYC-adjacent lake or beach community. Or deciding to take the Ultimate Emperor Suite or whatever on an ocean liner to Europe.

It's completely obvious whoever his editor was never read the thing. Took one look, said "Fuck it" and just published. It was everyone else's lookout if they read it or not. It would have been impossible to edit anyway,

In the 60s he received $300,000 from the producers of Doctor Dolittle, who went on to hire Rex Harrison but were forced by contract to let Plummer keep his salary.

He had a noble aspect. He was born to play kings— not plumbers.

He should've done what Richard Jenkins did and assume a stage surname, something befitting his handsome visage!

He was so noble we thought he might be a worth successor to Sir Laurence but Christopher 'stickied his wicket' (as the English say).

But you can hear Christopher replicate Larry in this recording of Henry V.

R268 it had to be 2009 or 2010 but I am not 100% sure...

What work did JA and CP have done (see R266)? Nose jobs? Cheek implants?

I don't think CP had any. JA I think had a facelift at some point and that's it (you can see the tightness around eyes and mouth). CP had a cargo hold full of bags under his eyes - anything he'd do getting rid of that would be step one but he didn't. Also have seen photos of him with mega broken capillaries. Most people would say - well that's the booze, but I think it's sun damage. Based on some photos from the 1960s he'd go beyond tan and turn purple like a livid dead body washed up on the beach. This is a naturally blue eyed fair skinned guy. He didn't get any laser work obviously.

Wait - a picture of CP as a juvenile in his bio shows jug ears, so he had those pinned. He also had teeth you couldn't really see when he smiled (look at SOM) so maybe he had those done if he did it was subtle.

I've seen a lot of pictures of Julie Andrews from her singing prodigy days and she's always had that nose and the rest of her features.

Thanks R276.

R273 other reports say 250K.

Interesting historical fact: Plummer's great-grandfather was Sir John Abbott -- the Prime Minister of Canada in the 1890's:

R281 he was born to that background but by the time he arrived there was no money. I remember in an interview being startled when he mentioned his mother went to work every day when he was a child because she had to. This is the 1930s/1940s and a woman with her connections/background wouldn't usually be in that position. It was one of the times I heard him express regrets. He said he was selfish and snobbish about her working and wishes he could go back in time.

In another interview someone asked him why he didn't leave Montreal to go to New York sooner, and he said, "It takes money to move."