Should You Stand Up When a Woman Enters the Room?

I do. Manners and respect.

Fuck no

Whatever happened to class?

Unless you do the same for men it's sexist behavior.

What kind of spaz are you? Nobody does that anymore. They must have thought they were in the presence of a lunatic.

Good for you, OP. A touch of class never hurts.

Please don't.

I haven't seen this done in years.

It's an absurd and empty gesture.

There's a utility in holding doors for a woman (or anyone), allowing them to pass first, offering them a seat in public transportation.

There's no payoff in standing and paying homage to anyone entering a room, unless she's your the Queen and you're a devoted subject.

R5 is the child who should not speak until an adult speaks to him (which will probably be to offer him some candy).

PS: I'd make the same argument about men removing hats indoors (which no one really does anymore, anyway). Utterly pointless, unless your hat is blocking someone's view (in a theatre). Or you're too warm wearing it.

It's 2021, why are you even out in public? Shame on you

No, because I try to avoid being sexist.

Remove your hat indoors you fucking animal.

Am curious: how old are you, OP? I think such behaviors are strongly Age-related, that’s why I’m asking

Lol why do you do this on a gay site? In 2021. You want woman bashing don’t you?

OP is a reflection on his mother. So are the rest of you boors.

Wow OP. This is one of my biggest fears, to, one day, in the future, sound this old and creepy because of what I’ve learned when young.

Why would you do that for an old woman? So insulting, for her and everyone involved. Is not like she is disabled or anything. Would you have done the same for an old men?

No, but you should fart loudly to signal your appreciation for her.

Is this a Southern thing? I have never heard of this gesture. But I'm in my 20s so maybe that's why.

I agree with r9. It's a pointless and sexist custom in this day and age.

I’m floored by the ignorance of etiquette displayed so far. I thought gays respected etiquette.

R11 is obviously posting from the set of a 1930s Rogers & Astaire movie! It's raining out, don't forget your spats & top hat!

But seriously, after the original wave of Feminism, the current even more Radical Feminism, The Trans Movement & today's Gender Politics, this sort of chivalry is completely outdated. As far back as the mid 90s when I was working as a teen-aged clerk in a shoe store, I got reprimanded for using basic honorifics like "Miss" & "Mrs.".

The one thing I will do is allow a woman or women (of any kind) to exit or enter a door ahead of me, instead of rushing past them like I usually would. But I reserve most gestures of this sort for the elderly & disabled.

Not for entering the room but approaching the table? Of course. You're showing respect and welcoming them.

It's literally called "rising to the occasion."

Standing up sends a signal from across the room that you’re willing and eager to greet and welcome the other person into your here-and-now. It speaks well of you even before you’ve had an opportunity to say your first word because it shows by your action that you’re a welcoming person.

Whether it’s a social conversation, a business meeting, or a meal, it sends the message that you’ve noticed the person(s) and they’re worth your effort to rise from your comfortable sitting position to meet and welcome them. [bold]When you stand, you literally rise to the occasion of showing respect to them.[/bold]

I might think of standing for a lady at an “event”, but yeah, it would look crazy in any normal setting.

I do still stand when shaking someone’s hand if I was previously seated. It’s typically just more practical to do so.

It's to distance oneself as much as possible from the stench of poisson.

You do all realize that almost NO ONE will be shaking hands in a post-COVID world, don't you?

Not foreseeing as much casual hugging, either.

Everyone is so offended by everything these days I would be afraid of standing up and then being accused of being misogynistic for adhering to to out of date traditions (or some similar nonsense).🙄

No - equal rights. Absolutely not!

HELL NO

I don't find a lot of classic etiquette to be necessary. A true sign of respect is being honest, straightforward and a good listener as it indicates trust. Being overly formal indicates distance and lack of equality. Plus it's cultural. Northeasterners are considered "rude" because we don't play the whole passive-aggressive game and tell it how it is and West Coasters rude because they act in a more egalitarian way and don't give a shit about hierarchies and dress codes as much.

Anyway respect should be earned not given to someone for being a woman or even older.

Yes, it's good manners.

This is the same deluded retired shop-bottom with folie de grandeur who asked us about our nannies. Right?

Chivalry is bullshit people. Wake up. It only exists because men wanted to court women and have a better chance to fuck them. It just got ingrained into our culture to the point that we don't see it for what it is.

Standing up is an act of acknowledging their presence. It is common sense and good manners.

Absolutely NOT. This shit went out the window when women decided they wanted to be treated the same as men.

R35

It's cultural. Not common sense. Most people under a certain age or from different regions of The US or different countries are not even taught to do it.

I am in my 40s, from Texas, and I have never seen this done in my life.

Guys. This is a universal concept of "good manners".

Do Unto Others As You Would Want Done Unto You.

Expecting everyone to conform to what you expect is "good manners" is actually quite selfish and you should be tolerant of other people's behavior unless they are actively being antisocial or violent. If you get worked up about it then it reflects more on you than the other person.

Obviously, standing up for people entering a room is not universally practiced anymore, so it's not "common sense" or "good manners" and thus it's non-issue to complain about it.

[quote] As far back as the mid 90s when I was working as a teen-aged clerk in a shoe store, I got reprimanded for using basic honorifics like "Miss" & "Mrs.".

R23, how did your boss want you to address female customers and other women in the store? "Toots"?

Yeah, but in Texas two year olds have guns.

[quote] This shit went out the window

Put it down the toilet, R36!

A lot of people still say "sir", "ma'am" and "miss" especially in the Southern US and many parts of the country. Most customer service employers say it too. That's just basic honorifics.

Things like opening doors is done too but most people open doors for both men and women not just women.

Standing up and giving up a seat is usually not necessary though unless they are elderly, sick or pregnant.

Not standing up when a woman enters a room just seems ridiculous to me. Why should a woman get special treatment for that? How is it respectful if it's emphasizing she's a woman?

This is not "good etiquette." It's archaic etiquette, florid and showy, and witnessing it would make me cringe.

There are plenty of etiquette points that most people don't observe that they should, and others that were never correct that people do. For example, DON'T stand aside in an elevator to let a woman off first. It inconveniences everyone, including the woman, and has never been correct. DO take your hat off indoors. A hat is an outdoor accessory, and it's rude to leave it on. You look like a rube.

Sometimes for an older woman, but not if it would be an awkward situation.

Never for a young woman or in a business situation.

I do, and I'm sensitive to the issue. My mom went ballistic on me once for failing to do so.

Not this "Southern" manners nonsense. All that formality is about distancing , not being polite. It's true in other very class-bound societies.

Maybe in this day and age it's more appropriate to do so when it's a mature or elderly woman.

I just don't get why an older woman or anyone in that matter should get this attention put onto her for entering a room. It just seems awkward. I can understand if it's a politician or a Royal family member but a normal everyday person I don't get.

It reminds me of something a slave would have to do for their master when they entered a room. And I'm sure that's where it originated since the South was a deeply class and race-bound society with an honor code that meant violence if these rules of etiquette were not followed.

I do as well Op. You do you honey,and dont give a shit what these crass rude bitches say . I was raised (yes,in the south) with very old fashioned manners and to this day I get compliments on how mannerly I am . I also pull a lady's chair out for her ,offer my arm when walking ,carry bags for her,I could go on. Its always appreciated ,especially by older ladies who remember when the world wasnt populated by self involved ass wipes.

r506, it's so sad that though you were taught so much about etiquette (and about how to congratulate yourself so prissily and extravagantly), you never learned simple keyboarding skills.

Social graces and manners are the bearing grease which help society run smoothly. People are way less bitter when the notice someone thinking of another rather than themselves first. You were brought up properly.

Also, if the woman is fuckable, easier to break into a run standing than sitting.

[quote][R506], it's so sad that though you were taught so much about etiquette (and about how to congratulate yourself so prissily and extravagantly), you never learned simple keyboarding skills.

Peaches, reread your read before posting.

Maybe it's my younger age but how is coddling women "polite"? Why should a woman get preferential treatment because they have tits and a vagina?

Should we not just be nice to people in general?

And I don't get why say a healthy woman should get help with carrying and lifting things over a weak, frail and sickly man who may need the help more.

I'm challenging this because people tend to just accept what they are taught rather than think individually

It's MA'AM! You better stand up for me!

R40, it was a running shoe & gear store. The owner of the the store was a middle-aged Feminist and lawyer who would drop by on weekends to help out a little.

The trouble began when a female (or whatever the proper term for them is nowadays) customer gave me a side eye when I politely referred to her as "Miss". And once she asked for shoe suggestions for herself, she took offense AGAIN because I referred to her as petite. (She was somewhere between 5'0 to 5'3.) She eventually stormed out without buying anything.

My boss who had witnessed the whole ordeal, gave me a stern warning that I've never forgotten..........."Don't label anyone as anything until they grant you permission to!". So customer greetings from then on became "Hello/Hi! May I help you?"

I'm now a CPA and I've never forgotten my old boss' advice. I've always used it and most likely have saved myself several headaches over the years. Especially given today's Trans & Non-Binary Movements.

It is common courtesy and common knowledge to stand up under these circumstances. People who don't stand are being rude, even if they don't know it.

Look at TV talk show hosts. Each and every one of them stands when a new guest comes on. Why do they do that? Because it is a well known courtesy and it would look rude if they didn't.

R57

TV is not real life.

R47, don't confuse your own passive-aggressive horrors with mere politeness. And please do not attempt to hiss your "discoveries" of class structures in society as a way to remove attention from your being an insufferable boor.

ALL societies are "class-bound," if matters of seniority and status are purposefully mistaken for class matters. I would not bow (nod) to a queen, but I would show and have shown traditional respect to US presidents. As I would never be in the same room as Trump, this was not an issue.

In business I welcome any newcomer to a group by standing to greet the person. I train my assistants and junior colleagues to do likewise. Every person is equally worthy of notice and welcome. Among coworkers in the work setting this does not apply. I try to take the standards of the people I'm with into account. I greet a Japanese person differently than I do a German or an Arab. Who wouldn't?

In social settings I rise to greet newcomers, male or female. Out of habit I rise when a person is leaving in order to say goodbye and shake hands, as well. (I follow traditions of handshaking in differentiating between women and men, which merely allows the woman to decide if the wants to take my hand first.) In formal settings I rise any time a woman enters or leaves a table or a room, at least while people are sober.

And I improvise if the occasion requires it. The idiocy that suggests that "manners" exist to make people uncomfortable is corrosive. Manners exist to make people [bold]comfortable[/bold]. There is comfort in everyone knowing what a situation calls for. People who treat etiquette as a gotcha opportunity is perverting etiquette: They are not being mannerly.

No, not since women's lib. Women can't be equal if men are expected to treat them as something extra special.

I don't think people here realize that manners are a not universal. It's relative to the culture and region.

The US is a big ass country with different regions with different cultures. What's considered polite in the Northeast is not the same in the South nor Midwest nor West Coast. Same with urban and rural. Black, white, Native American, Asian American culture. Etc, etc.

So why everyone here acting like this is "common sense" is beyond me. Also TV and movies are not real life, they are fiction even the news and reality TV.

[quote] The idiocy that suggests that "manners" exist to make people uncomfortable is corrosive. Manners exist to make people comfortable. There is comfort in everyone knowing what a situation calls for. People who treat etiquette as a gotcha opportunity is perverting etiquette: They are not being mannerly.

THIS.

Maybe 500 years ago you'd stand up, moron. Clickbait! or rather cuntbait!

Gentlemen rise when a *lady* enters the room, not just any random female per se.

Was watching some British historical drama on PBS where some woman who was no better than she should be complained to object of her rage "haven't you taught your sons to rise when a lady enters the room?". Man replied "and when a lady does enter the room, they will".

Being southern I was taught to stand especially for older women I didn't know, but not every man still does so it feels strange for me to do it anymore.

R61, your thesis is weak and is not supported by argument or fact. C-.

R66

So New Jersey and Mississippi have the same culture and standards of behavior? California and Wisconsin? Texas and Massachusetts? Does a Jewish person from NY have the same culture as a black person from Alabama? Does a 4th-generation Chinese American from California have the same culture as a recent Indian immigrant in New Jersey? The US is very very diverse.

Anyway, I love how everyone here is all about policing other's public behavior and criticizing others for not doing this. Focus on yourselves and stop being so judgmental for once. And why are people mentioning TV shows as examples as if they are documentaries?

This thread shows how much Dataloungers hate their mothers, and the older women who serve as stand-ins for them.

Oh my lord smell Mr. Continental at R59!

[quote] Gentlemen rise when a *lady* enters the room, not just any random female per se.

Distinguishing "gentlemen" from men, and "ladies" from women, went out with the bustle and the velocipede.

I used to work for the Obama Administration and Mrs. Robinson came into the White House one afternoon when I was there. I stood when she entered the room and everyone else sat. A month later, I got a significant promotion. The joke was I got it b/c Michelle told Potus to do so.

I stand when a lady enters the room. I still say yes ma'am and no sir. I still write thank you notes. I am late 40s dinosaur, but I think manners matter.

I still stand for a lady, but I wouldn't do so in a professional environment, for instance.

Codeswitching includes manners, it seems.

I will stand if a lady enters the room and I plan on greeting her. Otherwise how would I shake her hand? But if some lady I know enters a room casually, no I'm not going to stand as if she's the Queen of Sheba. And no lady I know would even expect anyone to do such a thing.

R72 at her desk......................

Greeting someone properly and saying "sir", "ma'am" or "please" seems more in line with what is common sense or common courtesy.

The whole standing up to acknowledge someone entering a room is just awkward and a waste of energy. Why does someone need to be reminded they entered a room? Plus being a woman or older is not an unique accomplishment deserving of being reminded of in my honest opinion.

Why is just being nice not enough?

I stand and bow when my dear friend Impératrice en exile Farah Pahlavi comes for lunch.

R67 name a behavior that is considered courteous in Southern California, but no where else?

Most of these women don’t even act like ladies with class these days, so why the hell should they be treated as such? GTFOH.

R78

Not being overly judgmental if someone is late, is moving slow or cancelled plans at the last minute. In the Northeast where I'm from, not being punctual, not walking/driving fast when others are behind you and not meaning exactly what you say is considered very rude.

R80, all of those things are considered rude everywhere. However, pointing out rude behavior in others is not a universal practice.

You have identified *rudeness* that is regional, not politeness. I wholeheartedly agree with you that people in the Northeast commonly behave in ways that are seen as rude elsewhere.

[quote] People who don't stand are being rude, even if they don't know it.

This makes no sense. If they don't know they are being rude then they aren't being rude. Rudeness implies it's done intentionally to be malicious. It's like people saying someone is being fake polite which also makes no sense because politeness is about appearing pleasant and agreeable not actually being a friend or loyal.

I work for a fairly hierarchical government agency. I don’t stand when women enter the room, just as I don’t stand when the agency head enters a conference room. To be fair, he prefers to be called by his first name, he says he’s one of us. The first name thing is a line I refuse to cross.

So R82, if someone rips a huge smelly fart at a dinner party, because that's how it was done in their family, you don't consider that rude?

R84

I would probably laugh actually.

If someone approaches my table and I would be inclined to stand and introduce myself to them, male or female. I guarantee that this person who is older appreciated that. To give you another example of my upbringing when we were finished dinner I had to stand and asked to be excused from dinner and compliment my mom for a good dinner. If we didn't say yes sir and no sir it was a problem. I think these were great things to learn as a young man.

R83 is Fran Fine.

I would stand if the person either (male or female) were my date. I would also stand, if I didn't know the person, and expected to be introduced to them.

I'm curious, OP, did the woman say, "Thank you" or acknowledge your action in any way?

R85, you are disinvited from all my post-covid dinner parties.

R89

Oh how will I live for having a sense of humor and not taking life which is short so seriously?

R86 didn't Beulah prepare the dinner?

I love that you did this op. I’m tired of having to treat women like men.

Absolutely not. These new women libbers wouldn’t like it anyway.

I’ve never heard of standing when a woman enters the room, but I’m from New York. When I moved to Miami I learned very quickly you better let a woman enter the elevator and exit the elevator first. Again, this is something I never saw done or heard about in NY. Maybe it’s a southern thing.

Okay, eldergay here. I was raised to hold the door open for a woman and stand when a woman enters the room. The holding the door thing gets a lot of positive responses, though it's mostly on the order of thanking an old man. In any case, if the woman takes offense, it's, like, "F U bitch." No woman has ever been hurt by having a man hold the door for her or standing when she enters the room.

There are many bigger problems in the world. Like when you come to a four-way stop-sign situation and there are already cars there but they won't move as long as there are other cars waiting.

You all need to chill out and stop being petty and self-righteous. There are so many more important issues in the world than this. You cannot control how others behave, only how you behave. So if you feel you are being polite then why care what others do if you know you are doing the right thing? If everyone did what you considered "polite" then there would be no such thing as "polite" in the first place. Just being honest and nice to others regardless is the best policy.

But then again, I'm from NJ where bluntness and transparency is valued, we have a high diversity of different cultures, we are far less religious and our government is corrupt. So we have a natural distrust of institutions and don't get the whole treating people differently for things they have no control over like being older or a woman.

[R91] I was raised in the south. My mother did the cooking. My father worked for a company that many of the employees were from the north. Their children would say yah and no to their parents. My parents raised us differently and it really showed with people.

I stand up when old queens in caftans waddle into the room.

[quote]Maybe it's my younger age but how is coddling women "polite"? Why should a woman get preferential treatment because they have tits and a vagina?

No one said rip off her Ferragamos and give her a massage. However, when their gender is capable of carrying a HUMAN BEING inside itself for nine months and then PUSHING A WATERMELON THROUGH YOUR CUNT, how difficult is for you to show a little respect by momentarily standing up. You probably spend more time in the Starbucks line waiting for your latte.

And since I don't know how young you are, Ferragamo is a very expensive brand of SHOES.

R99

LOL. Calm down. I respect my mom and female relatives. But women are just people to me first. Also isn't getting pregnant a choice?

R98 I've already mentioned Farah Palavi, above.

R99

Also Starbucks is basically a McDonalds and I prefer to make my coffee at home and save rather than spend money.

They used to do it on What's My Line (at 6:32). When a female guest departed, the male panelists would stand. The female panelists would only stand if the female guest was of high regard, like Eleanor Roosevelt.

[quote] If everyone did what you considered "polite" then there would be no such thing as "polite" in the first place.

No sweet pea, it would be the wonderful world that nice colored Louis Armstrong sang about. He was so good in that movie with the Jewish girl singer.

R104

It would wonderful until people start realizing everyone is lying to each other and become paranoid.

I'm only standing to land a swift kick to the cunt bone!

Rules are different in 2021. Just saw someone today called out for using the word "insane" to describe something crazy. Not sure if you're also not allowed to use crazy. Apparently "insane" is ableist and not respectful of mental illness. Also offensive: spirit animals. insensitive to native americans. Not kidding.

Well this thread has been hilarious. I mean DataLoungers talking about manners and being polite while being rude and judgmental at the same time. Comical.

I'm a woman, but in certain settings, I stand whenever someone enters the room. Always for business meetings and when I'm meeting the people I will be working with. In previous times, I would stand, walk over, shake their hand, and give them my business card, at the very least give them a card. Now I just stand.

I have never heard of anyone doing this

[quote] The holding the door thing gets a lot of positive responses, though it's mostly on the order of thanking an old man. In any case, if the woman takes offense, it's, like, "F U bitch."

Oh, you certainly have the most wonderful manners!

[quote]I would stand if the person either (male or female) were my date. I would also stand, if I didn't know the person, and expected to be introduced to them.

This is pretty much my take. I stand for formal meeting or when I expect I'm being introduced. I would never stand in a business setting that OP describes, where everyone knows each other and it's just a typical work interaction. I get that different offices have difference cultures, but this kind of gendered, chivalry-based performance is a complete oddity in my experience. It's like something from 2-3 eras ago, when women just served coffee and answered phones, and retired upon getting married.

If I was a woman and treated like this, with a big performance at the appearance of my "otherness" in Mainland, I'd probably be pissed.

Do ladies still invariably wear gloves and hats when out of doors? That used to be good manners too.

If they're not going to wear gloves any more, I don't see why I should rise from a table to greet them. They have to fulfill their end of the bargain.

I often find white Southern men are obsessed with showing "good manners" that now seem stiff and antiquated because it was drummed into their heads as children (whether overtly or covertly) that they would be mistaken for white trash if they didn't.

OP, politeness goes along way, well done. It's not always about ME ME ME!

Can't having it both ways, equal rights, equal pay, but chivalry? Sorry but you are either my equal and I will treat you just like I treat one of the guys or else M'lady better realize she is inferior to men and thus she needs someone to push her seat in.

Sadly, I know woman that want both.

Fish are more rude than men these days. If I walk through a door in a pubic building I will hold it open for the person behind me or coming my way weather it's a man or a woman. The men always say thanks in some way. The woman however, just walk through like a princess without even a simple thanks about 70 percent of the time.

Guess OP doesn’t run into too many older ladies.

Shirley, you jest, Mary OP!

OP is Ashley Wilkes. It sounds sweet but it has never occurred to me. I do hold doors for women to walk through though. Also the elderly.

Showing that you have lovely manners reflects well on you! You are doing it for yourself, not for the woman.

Bad manners are worse than having no money.

- Susanne Sugarbaker

That should have been Suzanne Sugarbaker.

I'm wondering if a lot of people responding just read the title to OP's post: Should You Stand Up When a Woman Enters the Room. However, OP was at dinner and seated at a dinner table when the women approached the table.

OP, I'm in my early forties and would have done exactly the same thing you did. I'm a physician and frequently have dinner/lunch with other physicians for events, etc., (no not during SARS-CoV-2) and we all stand when females leave or come back to the table.

I agree with others when I say that I'm surprised by the boorish comments on this thread.

[quote]Well this thread has been hilarious. I mean DataLoungers talking about manners and being polite while being rude and judgmental at the same time. Comical.

Please, fuck off. Thank you kindly.

What's boorish is treating women in public like oddities that require a special set of rituals to greet their presence.

Some of you really do cling to old indoctrinations like they're tablets handed down by God. Women are equals and should be treated the same as men. This is not a new or complicated concept.

Mother insists that I not only stand, but run out of the room completely and not come back until the harlot is dealt with.

[quote]coming my way weather it's a man or a woman.

Or dictionary.

I've seen this standing thing in old b/w movies.

To do it today seems weird, I'm sure you confused everyone.

Well, smell Dr. Mary at R124.

Don't stand when a woman enters a room.

Do stand when being introduced to someone (if I'm sitting).

[quote]Well, smell Dr. Mary at R124.

Go ahead; take a big whiff, R130. You'll smell Tom Ford's Fucking Fabulous and good manners.

Stand up? No.

Cover my nose? Yes.

OP, you stood as a sign of respect. I would do the same for an older male. You can never go wrong showing respect.

[quote] It's an absurd and empty gesture.

I'll bet you'd stand for some celebrity you liked.

No. Women should get no special treatment. Equality and all that.

I say this with love: some of y'all were raised by wolves, bless your hearts.

I open doors for females and always let a female enter the room/lift first but I wouldn't ever stand for a woman entering the room. That's very old fashioned.

Do you lay down your jacket on a puddle so a lady may walk across?

OP is our resident racist faggot. Go look at his other comments...

[quote] Ha-ha! Some people still think the BLM movement was about protecting black people from "police brutality". It must be nice to be so naive. Do you still believe in Santa?

[quote]Wait for six months and you'll notice BLM has completely disappeared off the radar screen. Then, ask yourself why that has happened.

You shouldn't stand up because that would be sexism

R18 I have some news for you. You are already creepy.

If anyone approaches my table, I immediately stand and acknowledge them. It’s being gracious and welcoming.

Good manners never go out of style.

A fine social education dictates one stands for man or woman who approaches the table One stands then greets (hand shake or kiss)

Why don't you sad queens know this?

[quote] To give you another example of my upbringing when we were finished dinner I had to stand and asked to be excused from dinner and compliment my mom for a good dinner....I think these were great things to learn as a young man.

When it [italic]wasn't[/italic] a good dinner, you were lying.

You may well think lying is a great thing to be taught as a young man, but others do not.

I always give my seat to older and disabled people or pregnant women and I'm in my late 50s. Lots of young people don't care at all about these things. I'm actually glad I'm old and be dead when those youngsters take over. Most of them are complete morons and inconsiderate idiots.

[quote]When it wasn't a good dinner, you were lying.

Good observation.

I hesitate to post about this because I am female - I am NOT a frau - I don't like fraus either! I am in my fifties slim and 5'2 and single for a LONG time - I travel alone most of the time. When I was younger alot of the etiquette stuff was a flirtatious thing - once I got older I became invisible and. I really appreciate a sincere gesture - if I have spent time making up and dressing for the evening it is a welcome gesture to have someone to stand up to greet me - then again I have spent years standing up when my friend's mothers would enter a room. Being alone and being out and about I really appreciate a man holding the door open for me - I don't expect it - I do appreciate it. But then I would give an older man my seat or carry out groceries for an older man or woman if need be. I HATE it when some 19 year old turd calls me Young Lady and thinks I don't know he is sarcastic ..... Last year my friend John invited me and some random friends for a Christmas party on John Wayne's yacht - it was funky - he had a young male friend in his 20s - met him for the first time that night. I walked to the table from the buffet holding my dinner plate in one hand and glass in the other. The young guy was talking to someone at the table and without looking at me shoved my chair out with his foot = it was weird and embarrassing me - you had to be there - it was almost hostile.

Thanks for reminding me, OP. I agree with the others who mentioned that good manners never go out of style. I have to brush up on these again. I have learned so many useful things from the DL “scolds.”