Elliot Page is DIVORCED to me!!

Who?

Ellen Page

LOL

Transphobic cisbitch! He became a man just for you and this is how you repay him? Eat shit and die, you feckless cuntwhore!

I married a woman, that was my intent.

EmenEl

Because Page has said that both "he" and "they" are the desired pronouns, the article alternates between them.

Did she actually kiss Jason Bateman in that movie all three of them were in together?

Of course they got divorced. Why drag your partner into a funhouse and expect them to play along with the clowns? Emma can do better and will.

Lesbians like pussy. No?

Didn’t someone here call it in the other thread?

You can be a lesbian and still suck dick, Emma. Sheesh.

Maybe they wants to try some dick?

Is Elliot ultra masculine or something? Just playing up to being “male”?

Even trannies can't stand each other.

Her definition of maleness is based on the douchebag jock villain from every bad R-rated 1980s movie comedy.

Does Elliot have a Dick?

So “moody”, “not smiling in pictures” — what a world.

Portner was supportive, it seemed. Page filed for the divorce, and the source above says it's "contested."

Portner said: [quote] "my gender identity, pronouns and sexuality are private and not up for debate. Would love for the energy in discussion over my identity to shift into addressing the climate crisis or sharing resources to LGBTQIA2+ resiliency instead."

What is LGBTQIA2+???

Is her character still female in The Umbrella Academy after Page's gender change? I assume they are still making the show and that she's in it.

Shocker. She’s a lesbian and wants to be with a woman.. not a man

EXHAUSTING.

Again, *she* didn't file for the divorce. The whole situation seems totally messed up, but at this point, we can't be sure that it has anything to do with Page's wanting to be considered male.

[quote] LGBTQIA2+

I am officially old because I have no idea what the last 2 letters mean

Maybe he started wearing “wife beaters”...hint, hint. Isn’t that what “men” do?

This fuckery is far too confusing for me. I miss pretty little Ellen Page in Juno with the 5 head. This Elliot looks angry and dark.

A= Asexual 2 = "Two-Spirit," which is a Native-American thing

+ = Anybody who feels left out.

Elliot Page is “male face” right? Like a gender version of “black face”?

Holy fuck, R27. Or should I say, "Holy appropriation!" Including the two-spirit thing in their crazy mass abbreviation scheme is just wrong.

Is she trying to be a smoldering hot guy in that picture? 'cause, uh, it's not working

Jesus, shut all them up.

She. Her. Cunt.

They infers plural, and you're not even one.

I know a man who looked like the current Elliot Page when he was young. Also, he has a giant cock. 9 or 10 inches, real. And he's mentally ill. He has Peter Pan syndrome and refused to get old. He was my fuck buddy when he was in his early 20s. He is now in his mid 40s and lies that he is 30. He is emaciated and has had plastic surgeries. He dresses and grooms like a teen chav.

Elliot is 33 and besides gender confusion it's clear he does not want to be a mature man. He wants to be a 20 yo dude.

I like the wife Emma. She seems like a basic lesbian. She's a good dancer and is making a stab at being a choreographer. I wish her well for her next chapter. Elliot I wish well too but he needs therapy and a reality check.

Their statement.

"After much thought and careful consideration, we have made the difficult decision to divorce following our separation last summer," the pair wrote in a statement. "We have the utmost respect for each other and remain close friends."

Ellen Page is exhausting.

She simply needs to ACT and STFU!

Boys being boys.

R33 That is something all trans have in common and I'm not sure why. The biggest reason MTFs look so ridiculous is that regardless of age they dress like 22-year-old girls going to audition for 'Splendour in the Ass Vol. 4' If 50 year old women dressed up like that they'd also look silly. The FTM dress like college boys and associate the hobbies and interests of teen boys with 'masculinity'

Well that's a sweeping statement R38. I have known some trans in my neighborhood in Geneva for 25 years, MTF, and they are matronly old school dames.

Yes, some trans also have Peter Pan Syndrome but I wouldn't say the majority.

I guess we'll wait and see what Elliot style will be but the debut photos are hoodie sadness.

R38, I've also noticed that the FTM seem to be permanently belligerent and have a chip on their shoulders. It's as if they give up all their joy and humor when adopting a male persona. I don't think Ellen Page ever seemed particularly lighthearted, but Elliot has an even darker affect.

Now Elliot can date Alex Skarskgard again

Is Ellen going to get a penis?

Sorry, I don't get these FTM transpeople. These women get their tits cut off, then start taking Testosterone, yet still have a vagine.

Elliot will be riding every alternadude cock in LA.

LGBTQIA2+

I got everything but the 2. WTF is the 2 for?

Not surprising, even without the T aspect. They got married after less than a year and Emma was 23.

R42 They're self-hating lesbians who still lust for vagina-en-vagine sex.

Why are so many people here pretending that it's the wife who filed the divorce when the headline is saying the opposite?

Elliot will only be satisfied with a real flesh-and-blood stiff appendage!

Maybe she's a gay man now.

r49 Honestly, that crossed my mind, too - that Elliot is going to be back with men. Who knows.

R49 You mean a hetero woman, did sh really have to pretend to be a man to get the fully wife to divorce her? Good play ellen.

Really, who the fuck cares. There are like a gazillion other things that are more important than this BS.

I hope Elliott ends up with a man, so the world can see how fucked up trannies are.

If you thought she was insufferable before, the next few years are going to blow our collective minds.

There are Male Transexual Lesbians.

So, why not Female Transexual Gay Men?

Me trying to figure out Elliott Page’s situation...

[quote] Portner was supportive, it seemed. Page filed for the divorce, and the source above says it's "contested."

What does that mean?

The wife doesn't want to get divorced?

Dark lesbians.

I imagine the narcissistic little twat used the phrase 'my journey' more than once in her explanation.

R58 It could be that the reason Ellen (not calling her by the new name, sorry) filed for divorce is because the wife was insufficiently enthusiastic.

R57 The wife doesn't want a divorce and is objecting to some of the things in the case. Like If the filer says there was adultery and we were living apart for 3 years the contested could say I never cheated and she was still kept her stuff here and worked in the guesthouse so she she did not move out 3 years ago. Basically, it's messier and the courts will have to get involved

Trannies just can’t seem to stay together nowadays.

Knew this would happen. The wife signed up for a lesbian marriage not whatever it became.

R64

The wife didn’t file for divorce you idiots.

Thank you R62.

Why do people contest divorces, R62? It's not like it's going to change the other party's mind.

I agree that Ellen's trannydom is at the bottom of this, somehow.

R67 I'm guessing they get more by doing that

So I have to admit to being surprised. if anything, I was expecting the wife to come out as a trans man also, considering her earlier statements about her own sense of gender. r42 A trans man cant get an actual penis; otherwise tiny dicked cis men would be doing that, no? There is a phalloplasty which is where they take skin from your forearm and make a literal meat stick. Its crude and not remotely convincing, but I guess its better than nothing and helps with the dysphoria to feel something like a dick down there. r43 lol, queer hipster guys seem to be int ftms more than the run of the mill gay man (apart form pornstars who seem to be fucking them left right and centre, and 'bears' I find seem to be into them also) r49 possibly. There are actually quite a few omen who identified as lesbians before transition who become bi or gay 'men' after. There was a famous lesbian BDSM feminist who transitioned in the 90's and then became cock crazed and a bi male activist - cant think of her name off the top of my head. It also not uncommon for a lesbian couple to both transition and become a 'gay male couple'.

Its truly fascinating, and a little disturbing and if im being perfectly honest, offensive to me as an actual gay man. I find the notion of a gay man being born the body of a female to be impossible and therefore a sexual kink of the woman. Its pretty gross that im supposed to validate some delusional women who calls herself a gay man.

[quote] I miss pretty little Ellen Page in Juno with the 5 head. This Elliot looks angry and dark.

Agreed. And why would any woman give this up

Exhausting.

I miss the out and proud lesbian.

Ellen will be a furry next month

[quote] Its truly fascinating, and a little disturbing and if im being perfectly honest, offensive to me as an actual gay man. I find the notion of a gay man being born the body of a female to be impossible and therefore a sexual kink of the woman. Its pretty gross that im supposed to validate some delusional women who calls herself a gay man.

No different from a man dressing up as a woman, or declaring himself a woman, or a white Anglo person insisting they’re black or Hispanic, or a white person performing in blackface. What, do you think that stuff is offensive, too?

Ellen is mentally ill. Watch this interview she did with Colbert. Rails against Pence while defending Jussie. Then veers into suicide. Starts to hyperventilate. She feels things. She feels things very deeply. Imagine living with this.

You guys cannot deny that my thread title was very meta and very brilliant!

r74 sure. But for me its almost another level up from the last 2 examples as it cuts to out notion of sexuality. Its creepy in a sexual sense all these 'gay' trans men and their cock crazedness for lack of a better word. And all the 'gay' men who go along with it. I think it plays into many gay men deep sense of shame and insecurity about themeless sexually and gives them a chance to 'conquer' pussy in a way that many of the would not have been able to before. I dont think is very healthy psychologically for gay men.

Is that what passes for meta in Germany these days? Schade.

[quote]Because Page has said that both "he" and "they" are the desired pronouns,

This whole "keep 'em guessing" routine is fundamentally manipulative. Ellen/Elliot has serious mental health problems.

“Contested” doesn’t mean the other spouse objects to getting divorced per se and even if that is the technical effect (one party will not grant the divorce), it is usually because there is some aspect of the divorce deal not “agreed.”

The two main reasons are custody and assets. They have no children (they probably have cats, IDK) so likely to be assets in dispute or, I am hoping, more juicily, Elliott is accusing Emma of some heinous behavior like, say, not being panssexual, as a reason for the divorce and Emma contests that.

So stunning and brave.

I cringe when I think of how people like this are coddled by the public. I remember Hillary Clinton Tweeting, “Nice to meet you, Elliott” the day Page announced she was now trans.

It really is just a sign of mental illness most of the time. Sometimes it’s actual gender dysphoria. But even then, we need to work toward finding a medication that eases the dysphoric feelings. Because this “hormones and/or body mutilation + expecting society to go along with the delusion” solution isn’t working.

"Elliot" is aging badly.

[quote] I hope Elliott ends up with a man

No chance, cunty.

Ellen’s a dyke, dyke, dyke.

r84 You'd be surprised. Many a lesbian gets horny for cock once they go on testosterone. Also, there has to be a certain sexual desire for men if you want to become one, no?

[quote]. There was a famous lesbian BDSM feminist who transitioned in the 90's and then became cock crazed and a bi male activist - cant think of her name off the top of my head.

"Patrick" Califia?

Well, I know most lesbians do have sexual relationships with men, but I don’t think Ellen’s even bothering to transition that seriously; as evidenced by the They pronoun.

She’d have more chance of finding the man she needs as Ellen than Elliott.

[quote]my gender identity, pronouns and sexuality are private and not up for debate.

Didn't know you could privatize English language grammar.

That us what they are saying PUBLICLY r23.

Obviously they wouldn't put it as the partner wanted this.

r86 yes, thats the one r87 IDK these young 'gays' are different. There are lots of them fucking he/him/they/thems girls who look like soft butch lesbians. Warning of barf material at the link

It didn't take much time for this to all end in tears.

EminEl is kinda badass!

The biggest "transition" these people make is between "I am proud to share my journey" and "I demand my privacy."

[quote] Because Page has said that both "he" and "they" are the desired pronouns, the article alternates between them.

That is [bold]insane.[/bold]

Do wokesters actually expect this these days from their coworkers and bosses and teachers--they expect that other people have to [italic]alternate[/italic] pronoun sets if they claim more than one set of them?

Does this mean Michael Cera is gay?

[quote]Do wokesters actually expect this these days from their coworkers and bosses and teachers--they expect that other people have to alternate pronoun sets if they claim more than one set of them?

Why, yes, yes they do. They say it helps them "feel seen" and be "validated." Much easier to just not refer to them at all.

Now that he's a boy, maybe it's time to reunite with former lover Alexander Saarsgard...

What a disturbing exchange you posted, R96. I'm R7, and even I assumed that OUT was just going above and beyond by alternating pronouns. I didn't know that that was, effectively, the latest demand.

Is she becoming a wrapper?

R26 Angry , dark and anorexic .

R90 you got yourself a couple of young straight grifters there

CashApp, Venmo, Amazon wishlist

They tried a GoFundMe campaign to avoid going home on Christmas break

R96 I don’t want to believe any of these people are real and doing actual important work in the world.

This was just several years ago. It's depressing to look at her now.

EP is patently unwell.

I’ve noticed a few very “woke” friends in the community be decidedly muted about her coming out as “trans”, which to me is quite clearly because it seems to be an expression of mental illness, and because there’s really nothing very inspiring about a lesbian who can’t stand to be a woman. Straight people and youngsters who are just online and don’t go outside (even without COVID) seem to be much bigger cheerleaders for what is quite clearly an act borne of self-hatred, and not remotely empowering or inspiring. Actual gays can see this is a person who came out as gay actively moving away from that label, and that there’s not a single positive thing about it.

I had assumed the wife was part of the cause of the new identity but seems I unfairly maligned her for her part in this, and she wants out. Good luck to her.

LMAO! You can’t make this shit up! What a disaster!

Wow... Until today I had no idea that “he/they” or “she/they” pronouns in a bio meant you actively had to alternate between the two. I thought it meant that you didn’t mind either being used about you.

I now see I am ignorant trash who must be re-educated immediately, and required to Venmo hundreds of dollars to trans people to atone for my bigoted sins.

I don't know that you have to alternate the pronouns, either, r106. I think the writer only did so to pre-empt any attempts from woker-than-thou people on Twitter to problematize his article for preferring one pronoun over the other.

But why do they want us to alternate between the pronouns? What possible emotional validation can that provide? Or is it an active attempt to see how far people will let themselves be pushed before they stop putting up with this ridiculousness

Oh yeah...the girl who thinks she’s a guy. Come back and see us when they stitch the peen on.

[quote] You'd be surprised. Many a lesbian gets horny for cock once they go on testosterone. Also, there has to be a certain sexual desire for men if you want to become one, no?

No one can resist the sexual allure of cock. Not gay men, not straight women, not straight men, and not “straight men” (former lesbian FTMs).

It tastes good, it feels good, it smells good, and by god I wish I had a fat 9-incher slapping me across the face right now.

R82

In trans spaces online, there will the occasional wannabe transitioner who was put on anti-depressants, freaked out because their "gender dysphoria" went away, and then concluded that they've been subjected to "conversion therapy". Just going back to giving these people comprehensive mental health care *before* they transition would reduce their numbers and result in a somewhat better outlook for those who actually go through with it. Informed consent is medical malpractice.

I saw this coming a 1000 miles away. I know it's being said that the wife, Emma, didn't instigate the divorce. But....if you marry a woman and then suddenly that women has decided she is a transman...it's gonna be rough, any way you slice it. There's gonna be pain. There's gonna be confusion. There's gonna a sense of betrayal. A clusterfuck of changing roles, expectations, and power dynamics. Emergent mental instabilities.

AND A WHOLE LOTTA LESBIAN BED DEATH

I’m not giving even the two-spirits two pronouns. The whole point of pronouns is to disappear in favor of the more salient parts of the sentence. It is literally the opposite of calling attention to oneself, which is the goal here.

Stupid question: But why would testosterone make anyone want to fuck men more than woman (I've heard this exact same phenomenon in other FTM)? Most men with natural testosterone are straight and want to fuck girls.

I feel like I'm missing something.

Emma has turned the Page.

R27, Are you kidding me? Wow! I just can't..

"Elliot, you are so hot, I want to suck your dick, pull down those pants and lay back and... WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS?!!!"

I wonder how changing your name and gender affects a pre-nup.

The wife could argue she married a different person than the one she is divorcing.

r98 r107 r108 Of course. I've seen two sets of demands. One was exactly like r96: "I clearly stated my two pronouns. If you do not respect them all by alternating in sentences, ..... -phobe!" Another was: "My she/they doesn't mean you have the privilege to say 'she' unless you are my approved inner circle. The rest of you, use 'they'!" We demand, you obey...

I don't use pronouns. That bitch usually applies to most people I know.

r114 No idea, I dont think it has been studied. Btu then again, we actually dont know much objectively about human sexuality really. There is a lot of postering, but very little in the form of hard science when you go looking. There are little bits here and there that has been studied, but the full picture is far from complete. Like if male homosexuality IS the result of exposure to (feminizing) pre natal hormones, then it is litterally impossible for a natal woman to be a 'gay' man. It is not biologically possible at all. Are transwomen (lets talk about the ones exclusively attracted to men only in this) therefore natal males that were simply exposed to more of these hormones than 'cis' gay men? How do we explain effeminate bi-sexual men like Alan Cummings, Eliel Cruz, Nico lang etc? While gay men on average are clearly more feminine than men who are attracted to women, why are there many genuinely masculine men exclusively attracted to men, while many of the bi men above are naturally more effeminate?

We know fuck all about 'cis' peoples sexuality, let alone trans stuff

She must know a lot of people are laughing behind her back right? It happens every time.

Emma shoulda bolted sooner.

R121, we know a LOT about human sexuality and evoultionary biology. I know taking classes isn't much of a realistic answer but there are plenty of podcasts on youtube that feature evolutionary biologists and other scientists. That might offer some insight.

I have found the "imprinting"/tagging by fetuses in the mother and the whole fetus-mother conflict situation utterly fascinating. Possible clues and solutions to far-ranging issues but fraught with conclusions or suggestions people may be reluctant to hear.

God he/they looks like shit now. Anorexic John Lennon.

The wife is probably better off now without them.

Lot of fuss and publicity for someone with only one nomination.

White women exhaust me.

R114

I don’t know if that’s true.

But most lesbianism is rooted in low desire for relationships with men than high desire for relationships with women.

Page adopts socially-dictated male presentation and demands that everyone view/address her as male. The media and public comply with her demands. It's tough to decide who is more insane; Page, or those who pander to her nonsense.

r43 I bet Elliot will be smashing the ladies.

r44 TWO SPIRIT

r128 These insane people flourish like this because the society (left at large) panders to them. Like r82 said, so many celebs and public figures like Hillary Clinton rushed to congratulate this 'brave and stunning' person living 'his/their' truth. Slightly other voices have been hounded. It would only get more normalised.

Puhlease, gay men do not go for trannies. Str8 and bi freaks do. Because guess the fuck what? We like COCK.

[quote] She simply needs to ACT and STFU!

Fuck off, Laura Ingraham.

R131 Simple common sense is not restricted to a particular political ideology. But the increasing absence of it does indicate a society in decline/disintegration.

[quote] Also, there has to be a certain sexual desire for men if you want to become one, no?

No.

Lesbians hate men, yet oftentimes clearly want to be them — or rather what they imagine being a man is like.

r118 I hope that babydyke takes Elliot to the cleaners.

This trans movement (based on plastic surgery advances, not science) is mass delusion/hysteria. Anyone who signs off in this insanity is complicit.

So do most FTMs go without a penis? Doesn't that make them just a really butch lesbian or straight female?

I've never actually thought about it.

Why would I?

[quote]Also, there has to be a certain sexual desire for men if you want to become one, no?

Wanting to be a man & wanting to fuck a man are 2 different things.

r139 The clit grows larger from hormones, right?

So will the psychologically damaged human formally known as the female Ellen Page demand that its previous be digitally altered to reflect its new delusion?

We wouldn't want it to run away from its television screaming,"Dead name, DEAD NAME! I'm being LITERALLY MURDERED by HBO!". (or do we?)

Now it will never be considered for a Kennedy Center Honor because the film montage would be incredibly awkward.

"films" be digitally altered.

R114 test is the king steroid, no surprise that overloading the system with it causes hyper-sexuality, short temper, weight gain, hair loss,etc. Hey, those are ALL very common features in ftms that take T!

The official YouTube channel of The Academy (not the Umbrella Academy) is officially deadnaming Elliot.

Forest Whittaker should never work again. #BOYCOTTHEOSCARS

So far I really see no cause to think Ellen is taking testosterone or any other medical alternations.. And for her sake I hope she doesn't fall pey to that.

Her ex-wife should become the spokeswoman for the Trans-Widows group. Most of those women’s marriages were wrecked when their husbands discovered sissy hypno porn and suddenly decided they were “women”.

Elliot still look like lady to me.

Ellen Paige is clearly mentally ill. She’s also insufferable.

All that self important twattery, from one weird movie over a decade ago....

Maybe they has been watching the FTM gay porn that has recently became popular and wants that to be him?

R16 bitch, please.

R136 a word on this, from the horse’s mouth so to speak...

What I’m about to impart is doubtlessly considered a controversial opinion, but it must be said—almost all women, straight or gay, do at some stage engage in some sort of maladaptive fantasising about what it would be like to be a heterosexual male.

This phenomenon has nothing to do with sex or gender, and everything to do with power. Women feel envious and covetous of the agency straight men feel entitled to and the ease with which they can walk in the world, and crave to know how it feels to have that power. As long as the patriarchy is firmly entrenched, however, there is not chance for women (or to a lesser extent, gay men) to enjoy this same power to its fullest reality. Hence the fantasies, that arise as sexual roleplay, or fashion trends, or erotic art (slash fan fiction is a major one), or even genderbent performance.

There’s a name for the cosplay/drag aspect of the fantasy, known as ‘splitting’. Even straight women can enjoy this part, gazing on women dressed as a more ideal version of a man I.e., a chivalrous, dapper, graceful masculine person who experiences and expresses intense emotions through tender displays of affection or angst, rather than violent outbursts of aggression.

Trans ideology has cynically preyed upon this entirely natural ubiquitous reaction which women experience, and perverted it into a way to test dangerous body modification surgeries & drugs.

All this is tore up from the floor up.

R152, I disagree with that completely. I fantasize about what it would be like to live in a world without misogyny nearly every day, but not living as a man. EVER.

I’d hate to hell being the lawyer writing this brief and having to negotiating all those different pronouns and names over the history of this relationship into words and legal jargon.

{quote] So do most FTMs go without a penis? Doesn't that make them just a really butch lesbian or straight female?

I suspect most FTMs are gay and hence need not worry about a missing penis when they get with other females. Lesbian + Lesbian - penis = fine with us.

[quote] I’d hate to hell being the lawyer writing this brief and having to negotiating all those different pronouns and names over the history of this relationship into words and legal jargon.

Not me! Ca-ching $$$$$$$$$

Exactly R152. I remember when young I thought how cool it would be to be a boy because the boy scouts got to do cooler and more intresting things and men clearly got to be and do activities and careers I found infinitely more interesting and powerful. Boys and men lvied freer lives. I wanted to be free and independent and I was as much as I was allowed. That has zero to do with being trans or wanting to really be the opposite sex. I mean seriously who wants to cart that thing around all day between your legs?

XX, Baby.

I am a lawyer and attended a CLE last year about how to deal with all the different terms we are supposed to use to balance using the preferred terms of clients with pursuing their best legal interests. I’m not criminal defense but a lot of those lawyers in the room seemed concerned about the subject and how juries would react to confusing terminology. We were told there are at least 52 different pronoun options. I imagine it’s grown in number since then.

[quote] This phenomenon has nothing to do with sex or gender, and everything to do with power.

True, I never hear from MtFs that they felt they weren't talked over enough, that they longed to be paid less, and it was tiring to not have their credentials, experience, and knowledge belittled and ignored. They can't REALLY desire the totality of the XX experience.

If Elliott truly has had pervasive gender dysphoria for awhile, then I wish him the best. I am disappointed, however, that lesbians no longer have anyone near an A-lister in their 30s or even 40s-50s even who actually identifies as a lesbian and is still doing reasonably well in her career.

Jessica Chastain, pick up the torch, please! Sandy Bullock? Brie Larson? Or Taylor Swift, I’m looking at you and your long history of gay merkins. Who else is in the closet who can be brave and come out? I’m tired of having no representation in the A list world when we know there are several celebrities who are in fact gay.

[quote] I have found the "imprinting"/tagging by fetuses in the mother and the whole fetus-mother conflict situation utterly fascinating. Possible clues and solutions to far-ranging issues but fraught with conclusions or suggestions people may be reluctant to hear.

Can you supply a link or two? This subject is fascinating to me, and I have zero reluctance! The more uncomfortable biological reality is, the more I love it.

Please r160, she-males transvestites want a wardrobe of whore’s dresses and come fuck me pumps and to treated “like a lady”, but they have absolutely no conception about what real women’s lives are like, nor would they want their lives to be like real women.

[quote] I mean seriously who wants to cart that thing around all day between your legs?

Are you kidding? It’s not like it’s a set of heavy bags like breasts are. It’s a hot piece of meat that feels good when it gets squeezed and rubbed. My dangling genitalia is a joy. Every man agrees! Not to mention how exciting other men’s pendulous dongs are, when they’re pressed against your face or butthole, or thrusting in and out of your mouth. Phew, I wish I had one in front of me right now!

This thread is making me HORNY as HELL

That's a first in anything Miss Page-related, R164.

R162, I can't find my saved doc on this subject but I found some links. I have to come up with more easily identifiable Titles for my files.

Genetic conflicts in human pregnancy - PubMed (nih.gov)

This is the general argument. I'll link a few more downthread.

R162, here's an aspect I just learned - strictly medical as opposed to the socio-psychological effects if the biological maternal-fetus bonding "break" in utero continues after birth. Now that is a scary prospect for child rearing but perhaps a better understanding can lead toanswers and remedies.

The fetus-mother conflict may lead to later cancer development in the mother. Yikes.

Maternal–fetal conflict, genomic imprinting and mammalian vulnerabilities to cancer (nih.gov)

R162, a final link. These are evoultionary biologists I listen to. They are old lefty professors and were involved in that crazy Evergreen College shit. They remain appalled at how the extremes on both sides have become almost normalized. And this is the discussion that got me onto this topic of mother-fetal confict. It begins here at

59:52 Does birth order increase the heritability of gestational diabetes? It goes on for about 5 minutes.

They have discussed this topic since this podcast in another podcast more recently. These podcasts are not only interesting and informative but I like to listen to them at night - they're somehow soothing. Maybe it's ther voices.

[quote] But why do they want us to alternate between the pronouns?

R108 Some people get off on making others jump through hoops knowing before they even demand it that the jumper will never be good enough.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Exactly, R169, the while thing is a power trip. By people who can't otherwise function successfully in the real world.

How the hell did we get to this ridiculous place?

LOL! What irony that new project is in R170. Girls taking control back from male domination in sports.

Remind me . . . didn't we already do this once before?

No-one, but no-one, thinks Ellen Page is a man. And no-one thinks male Olympic gold medalist and father-of-six Caitlyn Jenner is a woman either, CJ troll.

Ellen’s wife has not left her because she is “really” a man but because she insists on identifying as one and is probably being insufferable about that delusion.

Mind you, if the wife is really a lesbian then the divorce is very gender-affirming.

R114, They used to experiment on gay men with testosterone, i.e. conversion therapy. Didn't work, still wanted dick. The "Testosterone changes sexuality" claim some are making here sounds dubious at best.

[quote]But most lesbianism is rooted in low desire for relationships with men than high desire for relationships with women.

Do shut the fuck up, you delusional little sissy. An asexual woman isn't going to become a lesbian just for the hell of it.

To add to the irony, R172, Ruby Rose also identifies as some sort of "them". She really shouldn't be playing female roles either.

Clearly she's brainwashed. I'm sure the ex wife will find someone better than Ellen.

I will say that I’m pleased that “they” has pretty much replaced “Xir”.

Some would argue Ruby Rose shouldn't be playing ANY roles till she/they learns to act.

R177, pretty low bar.

R179, I completely agree. I know she has a pretty face, but can’t even say her own name with conviction.

I just can't keep up with her/his/its/their shenanigans!!!!

Settle down, whoever you are!!!!!!!

r174 Firstly, as someone who has talked about ftms being into dick, I personally have never claimed that T literally changes sexuality. Simply that many FTMs have themselves claimed that it does. And I myself have seen many gay FTMs who identified as lesbians before transition. Whether T changed their sexuality, or they weren't actually lesbians in the first place I have no idea. But its certainly a phenomenon in terms of labels in sexuality, if not literally sexually.

But I dont understand how your point about T being given to gay men disproves the notion that T could potentially change female sexuality. The idea behind giving homosexual men T was that we lacked it, but this as you said, actually only made gay men hornier and even more strongly attracted to men. This is because gay men dont LACK testosterone (I mean look at all the hairy and bald gay men), but rather it is more likely that they were exposed to more oestrogen in the womb. But the other masculinisation processes (testosterone) still happened the same as heterosexual men. Gay men dont have lower T levels than straight men is the short answer.

However, this doesnt really mean anything in the way of FTMs, as one example is discussing given MALE people with normal T levels more T, the other is giving FEMALEs high doses of T which they do not naturally produce (yes women produce small amounts of T, but its just that, small). Male and females react differently to different hormones.

So does T change natal females sexual orientation? IDK, probably not. But the fact it didnt work on gay men doesnt really mean anything. Ftms arent actually men after all...............

For many lesbians who are gay because (for whatever reason) they are afraid of men/penises/penetration, transitioning into a male and pursuing mtm relationships allows them to deal with their trauma and partake in a heterosexual relationship while pretending to be a man. It's really just a way of dealing with psychological issues in a really fucked up roundabout way.

I, too, have never, ever fantasized about being a man--straight or gay.

I have asked myself, for fun, what I would be doing if I turned onto a man magically.

It turned out I would be a full-time surfer living in an old VW camper van.

She needs to divorce herself from this phase she is going through.

R183 is (depressingly) quite correct.

The phenomenon of lesbian women becoming straight or bisexual trans men is well-documented, and it does seem that it is the heterosexual dynamic, not men themselves, that these women originally rejected. Quite sad all round. Social reasons are more likely than any much-sought for medical ones.

Oh... I meant lesbian women becoming gay or bisexual men, but my language gave me away. Penis in vagina is straight sex, not gay sex. What a TERF...

There are very few cases of lesbians transitioning into "gay" or bi transmen. The overwhelming majority of transitioned lesbians become "straight" men who still have or seek relationships with women.

No. To claim sexuality is “fluid” is homophobic at its core. Orientation is innate. Lesbians who pretend they’re men are still exclusively same sex attracted. Gay men who pretend they’re women are still gay. The straight women who pretend to be men are autoandrophiles just like horrible straight men who pretend to be lesbians are autogynephiles; both groups are turned out by fetish porn. Bisexuality exists, however, it is not the predominate orientation. Most people are heterosexual. None of this changes by pumping your body with wrong sex hormones or amputating your reproductive organs. The gays and lesbians, regardless of their identity status, who attempt to date people of the opposite sex are victims and perpetuators of homophobia and misogyny. The “trans” ones have largely realized that lesbians aren’t interested in women without tits and gay men have no interest in feminine fetish wear and handfuls of plastic tits and are tired of being incels. Transpeople will always be pornsick, homophobic, misogynist incels. That is their culture.

I identify as divorced from this crazy shit and its pronouns.

[quote] It turned out I would be a full-time surfer living in an old VW camper van.

Hey R184 if wouldn’t be bad if you turned out like this Van Man. I bet you’d lots of pussy!

It’s going to be interesting when the new season of Umbrella Academy premieres and the general audience sees her still playing a female role. We’ve officially lost the plot. Elliot has asserted her identity as a man and asked for male pronouns yet can play a female character and misgendered on screen? While a cisgender person can’t play a transgender person, a transgender person can play a cisgender person of the opposite preferred gender?

This shit is WILD. This rhetoric has never had any basis in anything resembling logic or stability, but they’ve really lost the plot this time. These rules are utterly impossible to follow and constantly contradict themselves?

My predication is this what breaks the camel’s back where people are just going to stop playing along or pretending like any of this is reasonable.

R192 I have worked with several people who identify as trans and don’t think they’re all mentally ill the way many DLers do. The only comment I have about that aspect is that extremism in any community is not helpful.

That said, the hypocrisy of letting a trans man now play a cisgender, female lesbian role as you mention while there is so much social media backlash now for cisgender people playing trans roles is astounding. I hope that the social media backlash over this once the show comes out sends a message to The Umbrella academy producers and to Elliott that you can’t have it both ways—you can’t decry the lack of trans roles for trans folks while a trans man gets to play a lesbian woman. Shouldn’t a lesbian woman play that role now, if we’re following that argument?

R186 lots of these girls that go trans just have 0 fucking idea who they are or what they like. I came upon one on Reddit and she was like " I always had an inkling that I'm not like those other people, I was friends with this girl who came out as a lesbian, so I decided that I was a lesbian too." Now she's a hairy Gayden of course. Many of them are also autistic.

I have a friend who's teenage daughter, who's dad was abusive (they are divorced now), was trans for a year. And is now back to identifying as a she. I do think sometimes it is a lack of clear identity that can cause this sense of "fluidity" of self. Like, a glitch in healthy normal identity/ego development, and not so much a biological imperative. I also think there is more than one reason or impetus for experiencing gender fluidity. But having a personality disorder is for sure one of them.

R188 only anecdotal of course but of the five lesbians I know who became FtM, three of them are now interested in dating men, when they only dated women previously.

r196 Yeah, I feel like im going crazy with posters here saying it isnt a thing. Its VERY much a thing. How or why, I have no idea, but lots of gay/bi ftms used to identify as lesbians. I mean the FTM that bob the drag queen is dating now acts like a typical gay guy - but also dates women and talks about how he/she 'came from the lesbian community' (whatever the fuck that means really) and still dates lesbian identifying women now.

I mean its so strange, so she/he date both lesbians and gay men? BIZARRE.

R195 one of the most damaging aspects of the modern trans movement, and really the reason I started paying attention in the first place and questioning some of this stuff was the insistence that there was any such thing as “trans kids” and them being used to validate adult choices in a way the LGB movement never went on about “gay kids.”

Kids of course have identities, interests and preferences that are not fixed and will change, that’s part of the point of not being an adult yet. Some may well be trans for life, many will be trying something out and seeing if it’s for them.

R197, it’s the misogyny and compelled heteronormativity of the trans movement, not an actual change in their orientation. Sexual orientation is innate. Sexuality is fluid is the argument of religious fundamentalist running gay conversion torture camps.

r194 One of the findings from the Tavistock controversy in the UK is that the majority of girls who transitioned are indeed autistic or on the "spectrum".

R197 I get that it doesn’t seem logical and why people would want to say it doesn’t happen. You would instinctively assume a lesbian who transitions would then be a straight man, but that doesn’t seem to be happening in many cases. I’ve certainly seen it multiple times.

I don’t know what the reason is either, whether they were always bi but didn’t want a “straight” relationship, but it quite clearly happens a lot.

Certainly I wouldn’t be surprised if Ellen started dating a man, in fact it’s so common for trans men to date men these days that I’ve seen that comment made several times in different places like on the lesbian forums too, other people have thought exact same thing.

Fictional examples but the latest / reboot versions of both Tales of the City (which Page was in) and the L Word season had FtM characters with precisely this character arc. In fact the old L Word had the same story too and it was simply art imitating life.

I personally never watched it - sorry as a gay man I dont find lesbian shows that interesting - but I do remember reading/ media talking about the trans man character which I found odd. Its one thing to shoehorn 'lesbian' mtfs into a 'lesbian' show. Sure we all know its dumb, but under queer theory it 'works'. What I DONT understand was why they were showing a FTM wanting to fuck men/ be a gay man in a show about lesbians - I mean it was still called the L word ffs. But wasn't it made by a 'queer' woman anyway? Seems par of the course......

r202 'Queer' women = mentally deranged LGBTQ activists/believers for "all-inclusion" under the umbrella term "gay" (only in their mind)

R201, congratulations! You’re a homophobe! Take your door prize and leave.

r204 I dont think you know what a homophobe is bro.......

Yeah R202 it made no sense and the character felt very much shoehorned in, especially as the writing was so bad they couldn’t find a way to make him interact with the lesbian characters who were meant to be his friends, so his story was just kind of out to the side with no proper connections to what was happening elsewhere. I will try not to bore you but two characters have an affair, he was friends with both and could have been a talk-to for one or both, but they had them instead confess to other random minor characters about what was happening. Just things like that where they couldn’t join any dots. Just bad writing when the character was clearly just to make a point in the first place.

They had Jamie Clayton on the show who I think is actually pretty talented, but she was playing a “cis” lesbian instead of just making her a trans lesbian character (go figure) which if they wanted trans rep would have made much more sense (and she’s a much better actor than the FtM guy they had, who seems barely an actor at all).

Are you OK, R204? What in my post was homophobic, exactly?

I'm going to guess that R204 was being facetious, R207.

R207, sexuality is not fluid.

Apparently not, R208...

I didn’t say it was, R209. Said I had seen multiple lesbian FtMs become gay or bisexual men and I didn’t know why that was happening, but the most likely explanation is that they were always interested in men and didn’t feel able to act on that as women (so, pretty much the opposite of “sexuality is fluid”).

I only know as acquaintances three FTMs. Two stayed with their female partners from before they transitioned (one couple was already married). The third, who was also a lesbian, is in a long-term with a transwoman.

I don't know any of them well, but I suppose the one with the transwoman may be the only other person he feels comfortable with? Because of the trans thing? I don't really know.

R210 gays don’t become bisexual. Bisexuals are bisexual.

"we're still close friends" doesn't sync up with "deleted every photo of each other"

R212 And I didn’t say otherwise, but maybe you want to have a fight about a post no-one made. As I said, they were always bisexual but didn’t act on their attraction to men, perhaps for sociological reasons.

R213 imagine if one of these announcements was actually honest. “We don’t really want to see each other again, rather not see his / their photos either.”