and, well, you know the rest.
The murder house, sometimes known as "The creepiest place to visit in Massachusetts" is for sale:
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and, well, you know the rest.
The murder house, sometimes known as "The creepiest place to visit in Massachusetts" is for sale:
|by Anonymous||reply 115||Last Thursday at 7:13 PM|
I would love to visit it. Stay the night? Nope. But it is very interesting because it is exactly as it was when the murders occured. Lizzy played the lady and walked out of court not guilty. She was . She moved up on the hill as she had always desired. Would you stay the night there?
|by Anonymous||reply 1||01/12/2021|
I don’t think so.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||01/12/2021|
Maplecroft, where Lizzie lived the rest of her life, is also for sale and has been reduced to $600,000.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||01/12/2021|
They, uh, still have the couch the father was murdered on and the bed the step mother was murdered next to. Yikes.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||01/12/2021|
The very same one?! How? A man was slaughtered on it? Brain matter, blood. It has to be a copy. .
|by Anonymous||reply 5||01/12/2021|
Was it the aggressively clashing wallpaper and carpeting patterns that drove Liz to snap?
|by Anonymous||reply 6||01/12/2021|
It looks as if the outbuilding is the contemporary residence, the main house is for show. You'd be buying it as a business opportunity.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||01/12/2021|
R3, I’d rather live in that house. I think Lizzie had some wild lesbian orgies there, if rumors are to be believed.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||01/12/2021|
R5, I gather from this source that the furniture is not original.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||01/12/2021|
You're right r5, but it's a pretty good copy.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||01/12/2021|
Nice exterior. Inside it's a horror show of miserably bad decoration on a shoestring budget. All those muddy cat-puke wallpapers, cabbage rose fitted carpets, and Archie Bunker's stained and Brilliantine infused chair, the terrible wanna-be Mary Lincoln's White House furniture of the most middling sort, the low ceilings. Never mind the grim apartment block on one side and the down and out nature of the neighborhood.
It's my nightmare vision of a bed-&-breakfast, with (aside from a couple of okay beds) miserable, shit furniture, wrist-slittingly grim color choices, fussy little Holly Hobie doll fabrics, and frills and ruffles and terrible "Gone with the Wind" lamps on every surface. Who cares about the murders, I would be worried that the place will never be rid of the sweet mortuary stench of dusty potpourri and shitty B&B decor of the current owners.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||01/12/2021|
I'll go to a showing in black face and say "What's the axing price?"
|by Anonymous||reply 12||01/12/2021|
It is the kind of place that screams Dust! Everywhere! The the decor is the stuff of nightmares. Is that on purpose to make it feel more haunted? If so , mission accomplished. Yikes!
|by Anonymous||reply 13||01/12/2021|
Several books have been written postulating other people as the murderer, but the best one has Bridget, the maid, as the angry axe-wielder. Lizzie may be innocent.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||01/12/2021|
I've taken a tour of the house. They've done a good job with it as a tourist attraction, but I wouldn't want to stay there. Fall River gets a bad rap but a tour of the house and meal at one of the numerous good Portugeuse restaurants in town is a nice daytrip if you're in the area.
|by Anonymous||reply 15||01/12/2021|
Bridget was outside cleaning windows I thought. No? The only one with the anger, motive, opportunity was Lizzie. It has been said it many bio's that the father may have molested her. She wanted money, a better lifestyle. She hated her stepmother. I think she did it. Jmo
|by Anonymous||reply 16||01/12/2021|
She definitely did it.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||01/12/2021|
Ewww - why doesn't the city take it over and run it like the museum it is? It's not a home you can live in. I don't understand selling a museum to a private buyer.
And I don't see a gift shop - that's a major revenue maker for places like this. Stupid not to have one.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||01/12/2021|
The photo of the gift shop is there. It's in what was once the carriage house.
|by Anonymous||reply 19||01/12/2021|
What really freaks me out was the autopsies were performed in the house. Then the bodies keep there for days. Shiver. There were many people who thought Lizzy and Bridget were having an affair. Who knows?
|by Anonymous||reply 20||01/12/2021|
I like the exterior paint colors.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||01/12/2021|
Wasn't the place for sale a year or two ago?
Did it not sell, or are the new owners selling up already?
|by Anonymous||reply 22||01/12/2021|
I think Lizzie did it, and I see why she did. Life with her father and stepmother must have been miserable for a thirtyish lesbian, and being robbed of the inheritance that would have allowed her to move out must have been the last straw. There was no other way out for her at that point, not that misery gives anyone a right to commit murder, especially not slow, horrible, personal, bloody murder.
It's just ironic that the same patriarchal system that made her life a living hell also refused to take her seriously at the murder trial. That must have been too weird for words for her.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||01/12/2021|
R23- I found that so ironic as well. They had to know she was guilty. Yet would not convict a women of such a brutal murder. The town shunned her. It would interesting to know what happened between her and her sister. They together into their senior years, only to part and never speak again.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||01/12/2021|
This is Nance O'Neil, an actress with whom Lizzie lived for a while. I really think that Lizzie Borden was a lesbian, which meant that marriage to a man would have been just as much a trap as living with her monstrous father.
She really was in a no-win situation in Fall River, and the one thing about her I don't understand is why the hell she stayed there. Selling up would have given her enough money to start afresh someplace new, I mean she couldn't have afforded the high life in NYC, but she could have afforded a little house in a college town or somewhere near NY or Boston. But she stayed.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||01/12/2021|
There weren't lesbians in those days. They were just close friends who liked to eat each others pussies.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||01/12/2021|
Shit - HERE is Nance!
|by Anonymous||reply 27||01/12/2021|
^ Even she is side eyeing Lizzie.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||01/12/2021|
DLers should pool all our money together and buy it.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||01/12/2021|
I don't think Fall River is any gay-friendlier than it was in Lizzie's day, R29.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||01/12/2021|
We can start a gay district in Fall River
|by Anonymous||reply 31||01/12/2021|
Lotsa hot guys of Portuguese descent there if big linguica on your menu. Think: the younger Maverick Man.
Lotsa crackheads, too. Not sure if it still holds the title, but it used to have the highest crime rate in Massachusetts.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||01/12/2021|
R25 back in the 19th century Fall River was its own bustling town; no need to escape to Boston or New York. A lot of towns in New England were like that -- New Bedford, Woonsocket, Bangor, Bridgeport. They had industry, a solid middle class, and plenty of work for everyone.
Now? You can't escape "the Riv" fast enough. A friend of mine calls it a sundown city. Just fading away before your eyes.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||01/12/2021|
R25- Thank you for stopping in here to tell us about life then! Please do it often! Do you know what happened with the sister relationship? They lived together up into their senor years, then never spoke again Also, what is your opinion of what happened in that home? Thank you so much!
|by Anonymous||reply 34||01/12/2021|
' I think Lizzie had some wild lesbian orgies there, if rumors are to be believed.'
There were no "wild lesbian orgies." LIzzie did have a close (who knows how close) friendship with an actress named Nance O'Neill. Lizzie had the face of a bulldog and Nance looked like a man in drag; imagined images of the two of them coupling aren't exactly a turn-on. It all came to a head when LIzzie threw a big party for Nance and her theater troupe; Lizzie's conservative sister Emma was so disgusted by the revel that she left Lizzie's house immediately and she and her sister were estranged ever after.
As for the murder house and the house where Lizzie lived after she beat the murder rap...well, I wouldn't want to live in either one of them. Talk about bad karma! I wouldn't want to live anywhere Lizzie Borden had walked. The woman was a horror. You can tell that just by looking at her empty, pale eyes. The eyes of a monster.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||01/12/2021|
R35- Thank you! Trying not to be greedy, but post away if you like! This case, that house, all fascinated me. I read every book I could I could find about it. So that is why her sister left. I also never understood why Lizzie stated there. In one book I read she stated that in her opinion, Lizzie had wanted to be like the well off people who lived on the hill. She was obsessed with it. It was motive to kill her father, who many felt molested Lizzie. I do not know why she had such a abnormal hatred for her stepmother. Oh, what secrets that creepy house holds.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||01/12/2021|
I'm sure this would appeal to a certain type of traveller.
Looks very central.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||01/12/2021|
I was watching some crime show and they sent 2 retired detectives to the house. There was still blood in that room were Lizzy went after she killed them. She took the bloody axe, her bloody dress and changed clothes . It was a very depressing , heavy looking atmosphere. They sprayed luminol, and a blue glow in the shape of an axe head appeared. Lizzy was guilty. That house seems haunted.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||01/12/2021|
There is no such thing as ghosts, so why be afraid or creeped out? Why not buy the house and turn it into a tourist trap?
|by Anonymous||reply 39||01/12/2021|
[quote]Maplecroft, where Lizzie lived the rest of her life, is also for sale and has been reduced to $600,000.
Price cuts. How ironic.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||01/12/2021|
It it a creepy house, seems haunted. Not that it is. All houses have their atmosphere. Some light and airy, some dark and heavy. The age and the old furnishings would add to that. Haven't you ever been in a house you felt uncomfortable in?
|by Anonymous||reply 41||01/12/2021|
The father was a Quaker (and supposedly a miser), so the style of the exterior is quite restrained. An equally humble interior could be quite effective.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||01/12/2021|
Yes. His stinginess was what he and Lizzie fought about. Also agree about the house.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||01/12/2021|
Lizzie hated her stepmother and she was angry at her father for being so miserly. They were a rich family but they lived in the crappy part of town with no plumbing or electricity. The last straw was when Mr. Borden signed over a house to the stepmother's sister. It was all-out war after that. Lizzie and her sister went on an extended vacation elsewhere in MA. The murders happened a week after Lizzie and her sister returned.
As a 32 year-old spinster Lizzie's options were very limited. It was unlikely she would find a husband at such and advanced age (for the times) and she was always a little "off." She was not popular in Fall River. People thought she was crazy long before the murders happened.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||01/12/2021|
Fall River is a shithole now. Very lower class.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||01/12/2021|
R21- Thank you! Very interesting. I wonder what her sister thought about their father being murdered. Did she admit she was aware of Lizzie's guilt, did she hate their father as well? Fascinating family dynamics.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||01/12/2021|
The sister never said anything.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||01/12/2021|
Hmm. I would think she knew. Everyone new. But he was reported to be a very unpleasant man. Who knows? This is the first time I have learned of Lizzie's unpleasant personality. I had guessed she was probably gay. Wish I could visit the house and town. Maybe one day!
|by Anonymous||reply 48||01/12/2021|
The house is very creepy and claustrophobic. And as others have pointed out, the decor could drive a person crazy.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||01/12/2021|
Yes, lol. It is.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||01/12/2021|
The Lizzie Borden case has always made me wonder how many other "Lizzie Bordens" may have been around back in those days. Desperate women whose financial security was entirely dependent on their families and felt they had no other options in order to secure their futures. The only reason they were never caught was because they used poison to make it look like a natural death, instead of a weapon.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||01/12/2021|
48 Hours recently did a good hour on Lizzie.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||01/12/2021|
R51- many poisoned. Accidents that were murder. But poisoning worked too well. It was still working undetected until a few years ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||01/12/2021|
R52- Thank you!
|by Anonymous||reply 54||01/12/2021|
The Lizzie Borden case is debated to this day. Some people think the maid did it. Some people think Lizzie's poor mousy younger sister did it. Some people think it was just someone who had a grudge against Andrew Borden. But who ELSE could have done it but Lizzie? She had the opportunity. She had the motive. After the murders she acted strangely calm and unconcerned. She burned a dress shortly after the murders. Before the murders she had tried to buy deadly poison but the pharmacist wouldn't give it to her. Questioned after the murder she told a cockamamie tale about being in a hayloft (on a sweltering hot day), looking for sinkers so she could go fishing and eating pears. There was so much evidence that pointed to her guilt. But the all male jury refused to believe that a church going, well brought up maiden lady could ax murder her father and stepmother, so they acquitted her. It was a travesty of justice. Well, Lizzie got all her father's money but didn't seem to have a very happy life afterward. She seemed very much ostracized except for her bizarre friendship with Nance O'Neill and I think the only reason she had anything to do with her was became Lizzie spent money on her.
I think all the lesbian rumors are probably mostly hooey. I think Lizzie may have been attracted to women but I doubt she had any lesbian relationships with the possible exception of Nance O'Neill. Lizzie seemed very repressed and unemotional. I don't think she was capable of any real sexual passion.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||01/12/2021|
She truly gives every sign of being sexual abuse as a child. Idk, but the anger and murder of her father, appearing to have been asexual all of her life. Hope not.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||01/12/2021|
I saw a documentary about her and was struck by how many similarities there were between both the OJ Simpson case and the Menendez brothers case. The media hype, the suggestions of abuse, it was all there.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||01/12/2021|
Her case was the OJ of her day, wasn't it? She became so reclusive.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||01/12/2021|
[quote] imagined images of the two of them coupling aren't exactly a turn-on.
I switched 'coupling' to 'scissoring' and now wish I had left well enough alone.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||01/12/2021|
|by Anonymous||reply 60||01/12/2021|
The Christina Ricci series was bloody decent.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||01/12/2021|
[quote]I switched 'coupling' to 'scissoring' and now wish I had left well enough alone.
Careful, I used the "s" term on the worst Lucy thread and was accused of being "old" by some millennial.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||01/12/2021|
[quote] As for the murder house and the house where Lizzie lived after she beat the murder rap...well, I wouldn't want to live in either one of them. Talk about bad karma! I wouldn't want to live anywhere Lizzie Borden had walked. The woman was a horror. You can tell that just by looking at her empty, pale eyes. The eyes of a monster.
This isn’t really true. You’re just projecting the legend of Lizzie Borden onto pictures of her. In reality everyone looked like that in pictures back then.
If you really want to know more about the case and hear from experts, the Lizzie Borden Podcast (there is only one) is highly recommended. You will not be disappointed.
Meanwhile if you want to know anything, ask me! I’ve been interested in this case since its 100th anniversary, when the AP ran a story about it (I was 13). I’ve remembered every detail about the case ever since and have revisited it many times. Still haven’t stayed in the house yet, mostly because it’s always booked a year in advance, and I hate to commit like that.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||01/12/2021|
It would be fun to live there and invite hookups over. With an axe over the mantle.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||01/12/2021|
It was actually a hatchet.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||01/12/2021|
There was something very strange about the family. Abby Borden was the only mother Lizzie ever knew so why did she hate her so much? Andrew was a miser yet paid for Lizzie to take a Grand Tour of Europe. Lizzie was a plain woman but known to spend lavishly on her wardrobe and owned furs and jewelry. Emma had none of those things. I think there was incest happening and the family knew but never spoke of it. Until that day when an argument erupted between Abby and Lizzie in the guest bedroom. Whatever Abby said made Lizzie snap.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||01/12/2021|
Cool house, and its move in ready too. And it has plenty of off street parking, unusual for a place this age.
Not that taken with the exterior colour, but like the interior, maybe I'd add some more patterns
|by Anonymous||reply 67||01/12/2021|
[quote]Cool house, and its move in ready too. And it has plenty of off street parking, unusual for a place this age.
Well, if it's off street parking that you seek... It certainly has that.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||01/13/2021|
[quote]There is no such thing as ghosts, so why be afraid or creeped out? Why not buy the house and turn it into a tourist trap?
I'd see something wrong with exploiting prurient interest purely for financial gain. It's macabre.
If a buyer genuinely wanted to tell the story, it's a bit different. I wouldn't pay $2 million, but otherwise it seems to be a decent business proposition with an almost guaranteed revenue.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||01/13/2021|
The Trump library!
|by Anonymous||reply 70||01/13/2021|
[quote] Not that taken with the exterior colour, but like the interior, maybe I'd add some more patterns
I’ve never liked the current color of the house. I’m pretty sure it was just painted white at the time of the murders.
I’ve also always been bothered by the completely different house exterior they used for The Legend Of Lizzie Borden (1975, Elizabeth Montgomery).
|by Anonymous||reply 71||01/13/2021|
[quote]In 2016, Kristee Bates applied for a variance to turn the house a multi-use building; however, another variance request concerning the turning of the carriage house into a gift shop was rejected. Eventually, Bates decided, “I’m just not the person for [the project],” she told South Coast Today. “I wish it would have worked out.”
This could be an issue for a purchaser. I think there's potential to develop the museum and drop the 'haunted house' novelty aspect, but a gift shop and tea rooms would be necessary.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||01/13/2021|
". In reality everyone looked like that in pictures back then."
They sure as hell did not! I've seen photos of people from that era; posing for portraits they looked unsmiling and reserved but they didn't have those staring, cold eyes. Lizzie had Medusa eyes.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||01/13/2021|
You're seeing what you want to see
|by Anonymous||reply 74||01/13/2021|
Fall River has a whorehouse in it!
|by Anonymous||reply 75||01/13/2021|
Lizzie inherited her mother's crazy eyes.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||01/13/2021|
[quote]I'd see something wrong with exploiting prurient interest purely for financial gain. It's macabre.
Many worse ways to make a living!
R72 Best way around this would be to build another building to serve as a gift shop/tearoom or even use a relocatable structure, there is plenty of space for one, then maybe let the carriage house as accomodation or live in it yourself if the main house isnt to your taste. I'd live in the main house myself, add more chintz over time
|by Anonymous||reply 77||01/13/2021|
Does anyone seriously think that there's money to be made in the tea and scones trade? From a small tearoom (the presence of which is contentious to the city government) and/or gift shop stuck behind a niche within a niche historic house museum? It's a very bad way to pay the mortgage on a $2M house of filled with frumpy, frilly shit in a misguided stab at "period authenticiy."
[quote]Best way around this would be to build another building to serve as a gift shop/tearoom or even use a relocatable structure, there is plenty of space for one, then maybe let the carriage house as accomodation or live in it yourself if the main house isnt to your taste. I'd live in the main house myself, add more chintz over time.
Don't do it! B&B owners are some of the most miserable people that one will encounter in a lifetime. Their business/lifestyle scheme is to buy beyond their reach, then pay for "the dream" by extracting money from the paying guests they regard as intruders, violating the space and rules of their "house." Only it isn't a house; it's a fucking small hotel, with none of the privacy, few services, and half-assed maintenance and make-do furnishings passed off as "personal and unique charm."
The owners start off living in their house, in a choice room, and letting out the lesser spaces. Eventually though they turn every odd leftover bit of space into a guest room. The bathroom, by the way, is just down the house, to the left, and to the left again, then up those three steps and down one, then left again past the two rooms --count carefully, one of the guest room doors doesn't always lock properly!-- then another hard left and there it is, so convenient. Please take care to use the squeegee after your shower and dry the glass enclosure thoroughly, and only one towel per guest per stay, PLEASE! Please also take the time to read the house rules which are posted in short version in your room on the door, and in full in a bound volume by your bed, oh, and of course the little reminders that we post on every horizontal surface and to explain the little 'tricks' of each door knob and light switch and lock."
In short order the owners are in over their heads, they are living in the small maid's room above the kitchen, the one with no heat and only one electrical receptacle, deeply angry and resentful of the guests sleeping in the good rooms and ignoring the house rules left and right, using all the toilet paper, tracking dirt in that needs vacuuming, soiling all the towels, laughing at their hand-me-down furniture and antimacassars everywhere (not a real antique in sight, noting even vintage), expecting their inclusive breakfast every morning, and generally making life hell for the owners who have invested their blood and life savings into a bottomless, greedy hole of a house. Why did they ever think they could afford the place? .
|by Anonymous||reply 78||01/14/2021|
R78 Now I'm sad.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||01/14/2021|
R78, my speculation about a museum on the site was based on a much lower purchase price and grants/federal funding. As it is, and with permission for change of use denied, it's not very feasible. (I'm assuming that there might be difficulties in gaining permission for new buildings, and in any case the parking space is needed.) The gift shop and café would be a small income stream, but a café is absolutely necessary for visitors' comfort and is one of the first things they will look for when planning a visit. The real selling point is the fact that there seems to be a guaranteed market if you could tap into it in the right way. The problem here is that the investment needed is too great to be worth it.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||01/14/2021|
R77, I agree that there are worse ways to make a living, it's just that from reading this thread and others about the Borden case, there are far more interesting things to discuss than gore and ghost stories.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||01/14/2021|
The Irish maid did it. Her soup gave them all the shits suggesting poison, and she was seething about being made to clean the windows on the hottest day of the year!
|by Anonymous||reply 82||01/14/2021|
R78 seems like an interesting, experienced person who never shuts up.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||01/14/2021|
Emma and Lizzie.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||01/14/2021|
R63 Tell us more please! I'm asking about the mutton stew, what about it? Also, is it true that the reason the sisters became estranged was because Lizzie threw a fucking party? That seems so petty after what they went through/stuck by together. I'm loving all of these tidbits, though that last one is a rather big bit.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||01/14/2021|
Nobody who buys and reinvents it must ever make any kind of a profit. It seems to be in the news here in Massachusetts being up for sale or changing hands as a new "inn" like every 3-4 years, it seems.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||01/14/2021|
[quote] They sure as hell did not! I've seen photos of people from that era; posing for portraits they looked unsmiling and reserved but they didn't have those staring, cold eyes. Lizzie had Medusa eyes.
Then you haven’t seen that many portrait photos from that era.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||01/14/2021|
R84, that is NOT Emma and Lizzie. It’s neither of them.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||01/14/2021|
[quote] [R63] Tell us more please! I'm asking about the mutton stew, what about it? Also, is it true that the reason the sisters became estranged was because Lizzie threw a fucking party?
The mutton stew was served 3 or 4 days in a row, and with refrigeration not being very effective at the time, and it being an extremely hot stretch of days in August, the stew had gone bad. It wasn’t Bridget’s fault, though—Andrew was a miser and insisted on this kind of meal recycling.
The morning of the murder, Bridget spent several minutes in the side yard barfing in the middle of her window washing. Speaking of the window washing, some have speculated that it could be a relevant detail. Mrs Borden was the one who ordered her to do it, and it was thought to be cruel and unusual considering the heat wave. Did Abby need to arrange for Bridget to be out of the house?
Another couple fun facts about the maid: at either the coroner’s inquest or trial (I forget which), when asked her age she replied “about 25”, because she had no idea as to her actual birth date. And when she was hired by the Bordens, they called her “Maggie”, which was the name of their *previous* maid. I’ve heard that this was just a sign of the family’s snobbery/cluelessness, and it’s pretty hilarious if that’s the case, but I’ve also heard that “Maggie” was a common nickname for young Irish women. Can anyone confirm the latter?
As for the later-in-life parting of the sisters, I think the official record is that no one knows for sure why Emma moved out. I’ve heard the “wild party” story before, but I don’t know who introduced that theory or how true it is. Could easily be the case.
In addition to The Legend of Lizzie Borden (TV Movie, 1975) and the Lizzie Borden podcast, I also recommend reading the unabridged coroner’s inquest testimony of Lizzie Borden. It’s the only time she ever went on record answering questions about the case. It was carried out immediately after the murders and well before the actual trial.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||01/14/2021|
Another suspect is Lizzie's uncle.He was the brother of Andrew Borden's first wife. He was a butcher and carried his tools with him. He was visiting the Bordens when the murders occurred. He and Andrew had a loud fight the night before the murders. He felt that Andrew was gifting too much of his property to his 2nd wife's kin and was concerned that his two nieces would be left with nothing after his death.
Whoever killed them wisely killed the stepmother first and the father second. If the father had died first, the stepmother would have inherited everything. With her death, the Borden wealth would have passed to her family. Instead, the murderer killed the stepmother first, ensuring that the estate passed to Andrew s children. the estate
|by Anonymous||reply 90||01/14/2021|
I think Uncle John Morse had a solid alibi for the time of the murders, though. He would certainly be a good suspect otherwise.
When was it revealed that he argued with Andrew about the inheritance? And did that argument really take place the night before the murders? I remember reading that he took that position, and I agree with him and Emma and Lizzie that Andrew was wrong to deed his additional property to Abby’s family.
I think at the inquest, Lizzie only mentioned that their voices downstairs the night before had annoyed her. I don’t remember her saying anything specific about their conversation.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||01/14/2021|
I would have killed the miserly cunt father on the basis alone of his refusal to install indoor plumbing.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||01/14/2021|
A few strokes of the hatchet was an improvement!
|by Anonymous||reply 93||01/14/2021|
The floor plan is very unusual. Two of the bedrooms can only be entered through what was Lizzie's room.
|by Anonymous||reply 94||01/14/2021|
r94 that was another thing that drove Lizzie batshit.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||01/15/2021|
r88 that really is them.
|by Anonymous||reply 96||01/15/2021|
No, R96, it really, REALLY is not.
|by Anonymous||reply 97||01/15/2021|
Yes r97 it is. Lizzie is on the right. Clearly her.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||01/15/2021|
Here are two other photos of Emma and Lizzie for comparison.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||01/15/2021|
No one who’s seen multiple photos of Lizzie could ever confuse the woman in that massmoments article for her. It’s laughable.
R98, what is the provenance of that photo? Where else does it appear besides that website? Who identified those women as Emma and Lizzie?
I could see someone maybe confusing the woman on the left for Emma, but even her eyebrows (dead giveaway: their arch) are not a match for Emma.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||Last Sunday at 8:49 AM|
More on Emma and the woman who supposedly was Emma: the corners of the mouth are different between the two women, and the chin is longer on the not-Emma.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||Last Sunday at 8:52 AM|
I was just focusing on Emma, because it seems patently absurd to say the other woman was Lizzie, but just for the sake of comparison, look at the shape of the eyes on Lizzie, in this most famous photo of her, and look at the shape of the eyes on the not-Lizzie from the massmoments photo. Also check out the shape of the mouth. Look at the outer corners.
But it’s really the eyes that tell the story.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||Last Sunday at 9:00 AM|
Sorry, meant to link to this photo of Lizzie.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||Last Sunday at 9:02 AM|
That's definitely Emma and Lizzie. Lizzie was just heavier in that photo. Here's another photo of Emma. Clearly the same woman.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||Last Sunday at 9:11 AM|
You’ve already posted that, R104. Also you’re being willfully obtuse. “Clearly” a troll.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||Last Sunday at 9:27 AM|
r105 That pic is Lizzie and Emma, looks just like them. Lizzie is just a little more fat in that photo.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||Last Sunday at 9:30 AM|
Here's another one of Emma.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||Last Sunday at 9:31 AM|
I notice you keep avoiding my questions, ignoring the facial features that don’t match (eye shape, brows, chin) and just keep repeating “clearly” “it is them”, like a mantra.
I’m giving you one more opportunity to answer these questions and then blocking you if you fail:
[quote] what is the provenance of that photo? Where else does it appear besides that website? Who identified those women as Emma and Lizzie?
|by Anonymous||reply 108||Last Sunday at 10:27 AM|
r108 it's a photo from an article about Lizzie Borden. I'm not the AP, I have no idea where else it's been published. The facial features match, that's Emma and Lizzie. Look at the other photos of Emma. People gain and lose weight, they pluck their eyebrows etc. You sound mentally unhinged over a stupid photo.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||Last Sunday at 10:30 AM|
|by Anonymous||reply 110||Last Sunday at 10:38 AM|
Gotta love it when some know-nothing insists he’s right about something pertaining to a subject he knows nothing about, and then when his claim is debunked, he continues to double down and says the debunker is “unhinged”. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the stove. It’s for dress-burning only.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||Last Sunday at 10:41 AM|
How is it debunked? Look at the photo FFS and compare it to the others. Jesus, talk about unhinged.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||Last Sunday at 10:48 AM|
[quote]Gotta love it when some know-nothing insists he’s right about something pertaining to a subject he knows nothing about,
I'm a native to the area and I've known about Lizzie Borden my whole life. Been to the house and everything.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||Last Sunday at 10:54 AM|
Lizzie Borden took a bump
|by Anonymous||reply 114||Last Thursday at 5:28 PM|
I got talked into staying there overnight. I ended up sleeping with my Mormon brother-in-law in the maid’s room because we were the only ones who were proactive in getting a room where sleep was possible. It was about the size of a walk-in closet and had a ceiling so sloped that there was only a tiny area where we could stand up straight. There were other, bigger, bedrooms on the third floor — one locked and unavailable at the time and one occupied by people who never went to bed.
The scary part: the people! There was a German tourist couple driving from NY to the Cape who had added it to their itinerary because they knew that a famous murder had taken place there, but they weren’t quite sure what any of it was all about. They had booked the room almost a year in advance but never got around to reading up on it. Bad move, because...
That kind of offended the second couple — a dead-serious, morbidly obese podcaster of the supernatural and his dead-serious, morbidly obese wife (this was actually a good thing, as you’ll see later). He wore a vest with ten million pockets filled with...I don’t know what. Little electronic devices? He took over the room where the father was killed and set up a full Radio Shack aisle complete with microphones and cameras and shushed anyone who got too close.
That greatly offended couple three — two drunk girls who just wanted to (and did) run around and shriek and drink and shriek some more at nonexistent noises and shadows. At one point one of them screamed, “OMG, I LITERALLY JUST PISSED MYSELF!!!!!” That’s when my group, the upright LDS citizens + 1 gay, decided we had probably had enough.
The brother-in-law and I were actually able to sleep pretty well because my group had booked some of the rooms that were in higher demand and Mr. and Mrs. Stoneface were stuck in the maid’s room. I could tell they were disgusted that we would give up the chance to stay in a “good” room but at the same time they didn’t want us to change our minds because, they claimed, Bridget’s room wasn’t “active” enough for them.
That was a lie. It was the stairs. They both sounded like they were about to have heart attacks when they came up to move their bags. I would have preferred to swap with the drunk girls, who had the bigger third-floor room, but that would have meant attempting to have a conversation with them.
The other losers in my party were trapped in the thick of it because when they mentioned they were going to bed, Mr. Stoneface explained that etiquette dictates one must keep the bedrooms open to the other guests until everyone else is finished. Of course, they were too polite and just went along with it.
We only had one knock on the door and it was the drunk girls and the by-then-shitfaced German woman. After about five minutes of trying to get Bridget to give them a sign, one of them screamed at nothing and they all ran out of the room.
Two days later, on our way home from the wedding we had gone to, my sister started whimpering and declared, “I feel so...so...diiiiiirty. Those Lizzie Borden people made me feel so dirty, AND I DON’T KNOW IF IT WILL EVER GO AWAY!”
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