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Was Pa Ingalls a loser?

Seems like he could never provide for his family or afford their medical bills.

by Anonymousreply 230Last Monday at 7:17 PM

I don’t know loser, but he was a bed wetter.

by Anonymousreply 112/27/2020

In the show, they tried to make him out as a hero for taking all those odd jobs or as a victim, but looking back, it appears that he was really irresponsible. I don't know if he'd get the same edit if the show was made today.

by Anonymousreply 212/27/2020

Was he an alcoholic in his character like in real life?

by Anonymousreply 312/27/2020

OP = Nellie Oleson

by Anonymousreply 412/27/2020

He was a poor planner, a deadbeat, and skipped out on debts. In The Long Winter, he's constantly going to the general store to eat, while his wife and children are starving to death.

Fuck him.

by Anonymousreply 512/27/2020

It was a true portrait of the pioneer experience. There was really no such thing as a “middle class” at that time. The real Charles Ingalls did lead his family into a mostly rootless existence that involved essentially starting over every few years in a new place. That was a pretty common existence in the latter half of the 19th century in the US.

by Anonymousreply 612/27/2020

One of the stations is showing a Little House marathon this entire week.

What was up with Katherine MacGregor? People bitch about Bonnie Franklin, but MacGregor takes scenery chewing to a different level. Did she think she was doing Noel Coward?

by Anonymousreply 712/27/2020

Talking shit about Katherine McGregor is verboten on the DL, r7. She’s like the patron saint of this place.

by Anonymousreply 812/27/2020

Medical bills? They used some shit from the yard for any ailments.

by Anonymousreply 912/27/2020

No, he couldn't afford to pay for Mary when she was going blind, R9. Caroline had to take work in the hospital and he had to sell the farm or something.

by Anonymousreply 1012/27/2020

This was pre-new deal period. The kids not only survived, even the one that was disabled blind, they thrived. The kids were literate. Laura Ingals, one of his girls, wrote one of the most successful family/YA novels in American Literary History.

The novel was so successful that a century later, it was adapted for a TV series. Which is the only reason you know about it OP because you ain't well read, right?

by Anonymousreply 1112/27/2020

I happened to catch an episode the other day, for the first time since I was a tween. The portrayal of Pa was quite sanitized both in the Little House books and the TV show.

They really did keep pulling up stakes and starting over.

by Anonymousreply 1212/27/2020

R11 = MARY!

by Anonymousreply 1312/27/2020

He was an infiltrator, that's for sure.

by Anonymousreply 1412/27/2020

I read all of the Laura Ingalls Wilder books (Mary!) when I was young (pre-teen). Even then, I remember feeling frustrated for Laura. Every time she managed to generate some income, Pa would swoop down and grab that cash.

Pa Ingalls reminds me of Matt Roloff with his half-baked, no-money ideas, making money off of his kids.

Yes, IMO, Pa was a loser and did not provide for his family.

by Anonymousreply 1512/27/2020

He must have been good in bed. Ma came from a family who had some money. There had to be a reason for her to leave her life of comfort and follow a poor farmer and endure all that hardship.

by Anonymousreply 1612/27/2020

[quote] He was a poor planner, a deadbeat, and skipped out on debts. In The Long Winter, he's constantly going to the general store to eat, while his wife and children are starving to death. Fuck him.

I don't remember this part. Maybe I need to re-read the "Little House" books.

by Anonymousreply 1712/27/2020

Why did he decide to become a farmer when he always had to run off and take other demeaning jobs? Remember when he went to do blasting for the railway, or when he had to deliver explosives?

by Anonymousreply 1812/27/2020

That is exactly how I saw it R16. Pa must give good dick! A a child I never understood why he couldn't build proper stairs for Mary and Laura.

by Anonymousreply 1912/27/2020

I never saw this show.

by Anonymousreply 2012/27/2020

Exactly, R19. He couldn't even build them a decent house with a bedroom. Laura and Mary had to sleep in an attic with that awful ladder leading up to it.

by Anonymousreply 2112/27/2020

He was the richest man in Walnut Grove!

by Anonymousreply 2212/27/2020

[Quote]I never understood why he couldn't build proper stairs for Mary and Laura.

Or why Ma didn't make him do it. Why was she so passive? Didn't she want her daughters to have something decent?

by Anonymousreply 2312/27/2020

I thought I would never see the day... you bitches are now trashing Pa Ingalls. Is no-one sacred?

by Anonymousreply 2412/27/2020

Why did they have so many children when they were so poor? Didn't people think about that in those days?

by Anonymousreply 2512/27/2020

No, they didn't. In those days, it was rare for a child to make it to adulthood.

by Anonymousreply 2612/27/2020

Katherine MacGregor appeared on an episode of All In The Family or was it EMERGENCY?

by Anonymousreply 2712/27/2020

I think Pa & Ma were hoping to have more boy children, i.e., extra hands to do heavy lifting, etc. As it turns out, Laura was Pa's cash cow despite being a girl.

by Anonymousreply 2812/27/2020

Maybe, I now recall even Mrs. Oleson making a snide remark to Caroline about how many children she and Charles had (I think it was when the Ingalls were going to take in some orphans).

by Anonymousreply 2912/27/2020

Home perm kits are not cheap OP. Not a lot left over for other lesser essentials.

by Anonymousreply 3012/27/2020

[quote]I don't remember this part. Maybe I need to re-read the "Little House" books.

There's a mention of him going out and eating pancakes with the men.

Ma should have busted his head open with a cast-iron skillet.

by Anonymousreply 3112/27/2020

[quote]Why was she so passive?

He was dicking her real good.

by Anonymousreply 3212/27/2020

R25 and R29 I thought they only had 3 kids? In any case, 10 kids was the norm back then.

by Anonymousreply 3312/27/2020

It's so weird some of you are talking about the TV show as if it were historically accurate.

by Anonymousreply 3412/27/2020

In the book series, several chapters are devoted to Pa's legendary dick game. Which explains why Ma never even noticed her house was lopsided. Bitch was always dizzy & limping.

by Anonymousreply 3512/27/2020

Ma probably married Pa without realizing he was a poor financial risk, women married too young in those days and had little financial education, beyond being shown how to keep the household accounts.

And once they were married, her only option other than staying was to leave and go back to her parents, knowing she could never marry again until he died because divorce was either illegal of impossible. So in those days, if the husband wanted to haul out to the Frontier and fuck up being a dirt farmer, she went if he'd take her. Some wives and children were left behind until Pa made his pile out west or gave it up, usually with no money sent to support them. No, women didnt have as lot of good options, if Pa wanted to abandon civilization.

by Anonymousreply 3612/27/2020

I think Ma also came from money.

There have been a few biographies of LIW over the last few years that have given more context to her life, not just the one that Rose Wilder Lane prettied up for mass consumption.

by Anonymousreply 3712/27/2020

[quote]I think Ma also came from money.

That China Doll that sat on the mantel must have cost a pretty penny.

by Anonymousreply 3812/27/2020

11 thick inches does not a loser make.

by Anonymousreply 3912/27/2020

Even if Ma came from money, well, many families wouldnt help a daughter who married badly, and many husbands would refuse to accept "help" from his in-laws as he'd consider his manly pride to be more important than the welfare of his wife and kids. So in the 19th century it was common enough to see a woman from a well-to-do family being reduced to poverty by a husband who made bad financial decisions, and the wife staying because she didnt have any better options.

I hope she at least got some good dick out if that marriage, because it didnt sound like she got anything else.

by Anonymousreply 4012/27/2020

R34...historically accurate???

As a kid I was apoplectic about the mountains in southwest Minnesota. They looked exactly like the mountains in “Korea.”

by Anonymousreply 4112/27/2020

Read “Wisconsin Death Trip” for a clear-eyed look at how awful the life of a Midwestern farmer could be in the late 19th century.

by Anonymousreply 4212/27/2020

No one forced them to be farmers, R42.

by Anonymousreply 4312/27/2020

Yes, he was, OP. A charming loser ("Pa's tuning up his fiddle!"), but a loser nonetheless.

It killed me when I revisited the books in adulthood and realized this.

by Anonymousreply 4412/27/2020

Obviously he was a drnk, which is why the books resonated with the public.

by Anonymousreply 4512/27/2020

Thanks, R37, but some of us managed to make it ALL THE WAY to R16.

by Anonymousreply 4612/27/2020

[quote] many husbands would refuse to accept "help" from his in-laws as he'd consider his manly pride to be more important than the welfare of his wife and kids.

Many, but not Pa Ingalls.

by Anonymousreply 4712/27/2020

[quote] There was really no such thing as a “middle class” at that time.

I disagree, the Olesons and Doc Baker, would be considered middle class. They were more comfortable than the farmers but they still had to work for their livelihood. There really wasn't any upper class people on the show, no large landowners like the Cartwrights from Bonanza or robberbarons.

by Anonymousreply 4812/27/2020

R47, also an early user of OnlyFans. Doc Baker and Reverend Alden spent all of their sarsaparilla money on that stinky round ass.

by Anonymousreply 4912/27/2020

Yeah, the Ingalls lived on charity several times.

Pa was likely also a draft dodger, because there's no documentation of where he was between his marriage to Ma (1860) and Mary's birth (1865). He definitely didn't serve in the Army, there would be records of that.

by Anonymousreply 5012/27/2020

Did R48 just call us middle class??? Nels, get the shotgun!

by Anonymousreply 5112/27/2020

R21 You’re an idiot, heat rises, that was the warmest and cushist place in all the nasty draft trap little house.

by Anonymousreply 5212/27/2020

PA was a drunk. It was when he put that fiddle down when we scurried up the ladder. We knew what he wanted.

by Anonymousreply 5312/27/2020

That's not my point, R52. The house was a fucking shack, and the girls had to live in the attic. Why couldn't he provide a better house for them all?

by Anonymousreply 5412/27/2020

Pls.

He was a hot piece of ass and was getting it up and down the prairie.

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by Anonymousreply 5512/27/2020

[quote]You’re an idiot, heat rises, that was the warmest and cushist place in all the nasty draft trap little house.

Heat can only rise when there is a fire. If Pa was too lazy/cheap to keep a fire burning all night, then the loft would get cold.

by Anonymousreply 5612/27/2020

11 thick inches pounding Ma made for a lot of heat.

by Anonymousreply 5712/27/2020

[quote]and the girls had to live in the attic.

Oh, poor them!

by Anonymousreply 5812/27/2020

This is the real Ma & Pa. My question is why is there a black man's hand on Ma's shoulder?

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by Anonymousreply 5912/27/2020

Are they dead in that pic, R59? They look like corpses.

by Anonymousreply 6012/27/2020

[quote]Are they dead in that pic, [R59]? They look like corpses.

You think Pa was going to splurge for Olan Mills in Mankato?

by Anonymousreply 6112/27/2020

R60, maybe they look dead b/c of the daguerrotype photo process, where you had to sit still in front of the camera for a while.

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by Anonymousreply 6212/27/2020

Also, taking memorial pictures of dead people was very popular in Victorian times. They would actually paint people’s eye lids to make them look alive.

by Anonymousreply 6312/27/2020

Pa died something like 20 years before Ma. Laura never saw Ma or Mary again after Pa's funeral.

by Anonymousreply 6412/27/2020

How dare anyone besmirch the talents of Miss Katherine MacGregor! She should have a shelf FULL of Emmys for having to deal with Shitbra, the cunt known as Melissa Sue Anderson and the retarded twins!

by Anonymousreply 6512/27/2020

Ma would have preferred the Ponderosa life style.

by Anonymousreply 6612/27/2020

R64 where did you hear that?

by Anonymousreply 6712/27/2020

[quote]Pa died something like 20 years before Ma. Laura never saw Ma or Mary again after Pa's funeral.

Did she blame them for his death?

by Anonymousreply 6812/27/2020

I too, loved Katherine MacGregor as Harriet, R65. She was wonderful in the role.

by Anonymousreply 6912/27/2020

[quote] Pa died something like 20 years before Ma. Laura never saw Ma or Mary again after Pa's funeral.

For reasons which are well known to them.

by Anonymousreply 7012/27/2020

"There was really no such thing as a “middle class” at that time."

There was a large middle class in civilized areas during the 19th century , the professionals and clerks and shopkeepers and so on. There would be a fairly small middle class out in the frontier but it'd exist, there would be the doctors, shopkeepers and business owners, ministers, schoolteachers, and so on... basically anyone with a high school education and a job that didn't involve physical contact with dirt.

What you didn't find out on the frontier was an upper class, you'd just have people who were the richest family in town, or the owner of the largest local employer. Those people thought they were upper class, but they weren't really wealthy or well-connected. They were just the richest person for hundreds of empty miles.

by Anonymousreply 7112/27/2020

If only Albert could have had his version of a 19th century OnlyFans.

He could have helped out with extensions to that dump Laura had to live in.

He would have been in high demand as the farm boy twink.

by Anonymousreply 7212/27/2020

One of my favorite DL quotes ever, regarding Mrs. Harriet Oleson:

[quote]a shopgirl in Flyoverville who thinks she's the Queen of England...it's hard to top Harriet as THE embodiment of DL.

by Anonymousreply 7312/27/2020

Albert would have blown all his OnlyFan tokens on his drug addiction and Laura would be no better off.

by Anonymousreply 7412/27/2020

[quote][R64] where did you hear that?

There's a biography called Prairie Fires that came out a few years ago. The first little anecdote is Laura getting word that Ma had died. She hadn't seen any of her family since Pa's death. She apparently did once make a trip back to South Dakota to see Carrie and Grace, but that was even further along.

by Anonymousreply 7512/27/2020

Albert was a total hottie, especially as he got older. He was the only reason I watched Little House.

by Anonymousreply 7612/27/2020

What about the old man, the one that owned the mill and started the town? Wouldn't he be considered rich back in the day?

by Anonymousreply 7712/27/2020

Pa was one of those dreamers who thought that moving would solve his problems. Every time he started to get ahead a bit, some disaster like a plague of locusts or a fire would happen. They didn’t have any support back then from government agencies and the same government was lying to people about how great the frontier was, so that they could wrest it from the Natives. Finally in Dakota, the family had some stability. I’m sure Ma was pissed at him a lot for dragging them from pillar to post.

by Anonymousreply 7812/27/2020

When did Matthew Labroteaux (sp?) go back in the closet?

by Anonymousreply 7912/27/2020

R79 Don’t you mean wardrobe, they didn’t have closets back then.

by Anonymousreply 8012/27/2020

Wasn’t Laura’s daughter Rose a lesbian? She was also obsessed with Albania. An Albaniaphile Lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 8112/27/2020

"You’re an idiot, heat rises, that was the warmest and cushist place in all the nasty draft trap little house."

It'd be hotter than blazes up there in the summer, with a good chance of drafts from cracks in the ceiling in winter. What are the odds that Pa kept the roof in top shape?

by Anonymousreply 8212/27/2020

Wasn’t Albert their child?

by Anonymousreply 8312/27/2020

The house didn't appear to have any insulation either? It must have been freezing in the winters.

by Anonymousreply 8412/27/2020

They adopted Albert so he could clean Pa's cock cheese.

by Anonymousreply 8512/27/2020

Reading the Little House series as an adult is pretty eye-opening (I read it multiple times as a girl).

Teaching in that era - Jesus. The new teacher who borrowed the bull whip so he could defend himself against the group of thugs, farmers' sons, who most likely murdered the instructor before him. And poor Laura, who was made to become a teacher, even though she hated it, to pay for Mary to go to the school for the blind.

And, I think it was little Carrie, who was devastated when Mary left to go to school. Mary's one job was taking care of her, and I'm sure she was the mother figure in Carrie's life, so to have her leave suddenly would have been traumatic.

It seemed like Pa was allergic to people and always wanted to be on untamed land. All well and good if it's just you, but dragging a wife and kids into these dangerous places was crazy, though not uncommon then. It's just what you did. The one prop I'll give Pa is that he seemed to get Laura in a way her mother could not. I think they were very alike in some ways.

by Anonymousreply 8612/27/2020

What exactly was the point of sending Mary to blind college? She never worked. She just came home and the only thing she contributed was craftwork that they sold. Surely she didn't need a special school for THAT

by Anonymousreply 8712/27/2020

[quote]It seemed like Pa was allergic to people and always wanted to be on untamed land.

It wasn't just that. Laura also wrote a true autobiography, called Pioneer Girl, which was only published in 2014. She was a little more honest about Pa's character there, describing Pa sneaking the family out of town in the middle of the night to avoid paying rent.

by Anonymousreply 8812/27/2020

What kind of nickname is Half Pint?

by Anonymousreply 8912/27/2020

Why did any of them go to school, R87. They were poor rubes, who were either going to become farmers or wives of farmers. What was the point of any of it. Besides, what could they have possibly learned out in that little one-room schoolhouse on the prairie?

by Anonymousreply 9012/27/2020

Did Albert die in the show?

by Anonymousreply 9112/27/2020

Quantum mechanics, Rose.

by Anonymousreply 9212/27/2020

Albert was having sex with Willie and Pa.

by Anonymousreply 9312/27/2020

What about Mr. Edwards, R93?

by Anonymousreply 9412/27/2020

It's true, the kids of the rural poor rarely finished high school, if high school was available in their area at all. The teacher of the one-room schoolhouse may have had only a high school education themselves, and well, if the kids were going to be a farmer or a farmer's wife what was the point? They didn't need school to know how to plow and harvest, and quitting school to work full-time on the farm made you a grownup of a sort, and probably made life easier in the short term. A kid who just worked the farm could put his or her feet up at the end of a long work day, while a farm kid who stayed in school had to do their chores before and after school, pitch in with extra work when needed, and then sit down to homework while Pa put his feet up.

Going to college, of course, was incredibly difficult for a frontier kid. Even if they got a scholarship and didn't have to find a way to pay, there weren't any colleges out on the wild frontier, and travel was so expensive that it was a barrier to higher education. Hell, people could go decades without seeing the brothers and sisters and parents they left behind east of the Mississippi, because they couldn't afford the trip, or the time away from their business, ranch, or farm.

by Anonymousreply 9512/27/2020

Hester Sue started the first BLM chapter in Hero Township!

by Anonymousreply 9612/27/2020

R88 thanks for reminding me about Pioneer Girl. I am bumping that up on my reading list.

by Anonymousreply 9712/27/2020

There is no need to drag Hester Sue into this mess.

by Anonymousreply 9812/27/2020

Dumb question, back in those days could they just go to any of those square states and claim the land as their own and that was it? Did they have to file anything with the government or pay taxes on their new property?

by Anonymousreply 9912/27/2020

Depends on the time and the state, R99. I'm sure there were places where you could just go and squat without any trouble, but a lot of great plains "pioneers" were given land through government land grants. And that must have involved deeds and taxes and stuff.

by Anonymousreply 10012/27/2020

Hester Sue and Adam were secret lovers. Mary didn't suspect a thing.

by Anonymousreply 10112/27/2020

True R101. The school constantly reeked of Hester Sue’s vag. They did it in the bed right next to Mary and she never noticed. Though she did take several black eyes from getting punched by Hester Sue in the throes of passion.

by Anonymousreply 10212/27/2020

R99 One of the things about homesteading was proof that you were going to be on the land permanently and to claim it you needed to plant apple or peach orchards within three years to show you were invested. This is where Johnny Appleseed came in. He was an advance man who would plant seeds on the edge of the frontier and sell saplings to new arrivals making land claims. Because it took ten plus years for the trees to bear fruit it proved that they were invested in being there. Of course the apples had nothing to do with what we eat today, they were used to make cider, which was needed because the water may not be drinkable without the alcoholic content of cider to make it so. Also, the cider press process would then provided Johnny with all the free seeds he needed to go forth and plant a new round of saplings further west.

by Anonymousreply 10312/27/2020

American baby boys weren't mutilated back then. So there is something positive to say about the pioneer days.

by Anonymousreply 10412/27/2020

Who cares if Pa was a loser? Look at that bod!!

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by Anonymousreply 10512/27/2020

Not a huge fan of Family Guy, but this opening is brilliant !

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by Anonymousreply 10612/27/2020

How did the kids not hear Pa railing Ma?

by Anonymousreply 10712/27/2020

R106 I've always thought that was funny but as with most of their gags, Stewie's whine goes on too long

by Anonymousreply 10812/27/2020

[quote]How did the kids not hear Pa railing Ma?

They did. Mary went blind from weeping because she thought Pa was killing Ma every night.

by Anonymousreply 10912/27/2020

Half Pint was originally the nickname Pa had for Ma's cunt after he blew in her.

by Anonymousreply 11012/27/2020

Re-reading the books as an adult made me suspect that Laura had a bit of the ADD. Remember her being so entranced with creek water she jumped in and almost drown?

by Anonymousreply 11112/27/2020

He was a boozer, a user and a loser!

by Anonymousreply 11212/27/2020

Op, that's how I felt after reading the books. I never watched the TV show, but I read all the books including Farmer's Boy about the childhood of Ingall's husband.

My feeling about Mr. Ingalls was that he was a charming man, singing and fiddle playing while chasing dreams that never worked out. Locusts, floods, illness and other calamities would cause them to move again and again. Ma and Pa Ingalls finally settled in a small town after giving up on farming. Laura was the big success in the family, basing her books on their pioneer life. Her early life was charming, the family parties when they still lived near kin. But, as many also stated on this thread, pioneer times were tough for many families, and death was a frequent event on their nomadic travels.

by Anonymousreply 11312/27/2020

[quote]Pa died something like 20 years before Ma. Laura never saw Ma or Mary again after Pa's funeral.

Mary never saw any of them again much sooner.

by Anonymousreply 11412/27/2020

What about Almanzo or "Manly"? Was he a loser, too? I vaguely remember that he lived off of Laura, also. Not as bad as Pa Ingalls, though.

by Anonymousreply 11512/27/2020

R115 Hell I wouldn't mind working to support Manly, as long as he was home to have sex with every night.

by Anonymousreply 11612/27/2020

He didn't have male children, which was crippling in terms of running a successful farm.

Farm families relied heavily on their boys as unpaid labor.

Pa was shit out of luck — he had four deadbeat female mouths to feed and no one to help him with the planting and harvesting.

by Anonymousreply 11712/27/2020

And Carrie was retarded. Don't forget that.

by Anonymousreply 11812/27/2020

Pa Ingalls was clearly unstable, constantly crying, couldn't keep his children safe, fathered a blind child.

by Anonymousreply 11912/27/2020

[quote] Pa was shit out of luck — he had four deadbeat female mouths to feed and no one to help him with the planting and harvesting.

Definitely a loser for failing to realize he could have ran a lucrative whorehouse staffed by his family.

by Anonymousreply 12012/27/2020

r5, he moved the whole family into the general store, didn't he? I don't recall him getting food from the store but not letting the others eat.

by Anonymousreply 12112/27/2020

Well this thread has been a surprising Sunday delight.

I now will go masturbate to Pa's 11 incher...

by Anonymousreply 12212/27/2020

[quote]You’re an idiot, heat rises, that was the warmest and cushist place in all the nasty draft trap little house.

It wasn't cushy at all. There's a scene in the books where the girls, who all share a bed, wake up one morning and they're under a foot or more of snow that had blown in during the night and covered them almost completely.

by Anonymousreply 12312/27/2020

Pa didn't care, R123.

by Anonymousreply 12412/28/2020

How do we know he wasn’t run out of town on a rail after scamming and gritting in each new town. I think that’s what really happened and Laura just cleaned it up.

by Anonymousreply 12512/28/2020

Who knows, R125. The real question here is why anyone would have headed out to the uninhabitable prairie in those days. Was Pa nuts? He had to have been.

by Anonymousreply 12612/28/2020

You can totally tell Pa would have been the one to take the short cut at what became Donner Pass and make them all suffer.

by Anonymousreply 12712/28/2020

A few years ago we had a thread that I just found, but I swear there was also a post that posited that Pa was bipolar and uprooted the family every time he had a manic episode. What I'd love is some background on the nutty homesteaders that Laura stayed with her first year teaching. The wife threatened the husband with a knife.

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by Anonymousreply 12812/28/2020

[quote]Pa didn't care, [R123]

Damn straight! He knew how to make more children if he lost the first set.

by Anonymousreply 12912/28/2020

If he were alive today, he'd be a Trump supporter.

by Anonymousreply 13012/28/2020

[quote] The real question here is why anyone would have headed out to the uninhabitable prairie in those days. Was Pa nuts? He had to have been.

Have you never heard of the pioneer spirit? It is just like there are plenty of people who would be willing to try their hand at colonizing the Moon or Mars, today, its about freedom, adventure, finding your fortune, etc.

by Anonymousreply 13112/28/2020

Maybe the real Pa would be, R130, but I doubt if TV Pa would.

by Anonymousreply 13212/28/2020

MacGregor's performance reminded me of the mother on Malcolm In the Middle: A reminder that this is from the perspective of a child, and the yelling adults seem like ogres. I loved Mrs. Oleson's voice. She had that plaintive tone and was so self-righteous and self-pitying. I loved her character and I loved how accurately she portrayed an asshole. A fine counterpoint to dear Caroline, whom I also loved and thought was stunningly beautiful.

As for Pa: He tried. It looked like a shitty life. I don't think the show could have enjoyed the success it did if it had been more faithful to the books.

by Anonymousreply 13312/28/2020

I always thought he was. He was a kind man and seemed to love his family but definitely shiftless.

by Anonymousreply 13412/28/2020

He was a user, abuser, and a loser.

by Anonymousreply 13512/28/2020

[quote]he could have ran

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 13612/28/2020

He could have been successful and supported his family well, but spent so much on Soloflex, hair perm appointments, waxing and tanning products.

by Anonymousreply 13712/28/2020

I let him touch it.

by Anonymousreply 13812/28/2020

Hawt.

by Anonymousreply 13912/28/2020

Thank God for UP TV☝

by Anonymousreply 14012/28/2020

Nellie Olsen's great granddaughter may have declared that she was a daughter of fine lineage, but at least 1/8 of that lineage came from the great plains. Her resemblance to her great great grandmother is obvious.

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by Anonymousreply 14112/28/2020

"Why did they have so many children when they were so poor? Didn't people think about that in those days? "

People barely think about these days. Plus, in theory, if you were working the land, weren't more kids supposed to be better - free labor.

by Anonymousreply 14212/28/2020

Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman, was from roughly the same time period. Seems like they had a better quality of life over in Colorado. Better-looking men as well.

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by Anonymousreply 14312/28/2020

Is that Andrew Carver from Showgirls at r143? After people caught on to his raping ways I guess he hit the trail.

by Anonymousreply 14412/28/2020

No, R144, that's William Shockley, actor on Dr. Quinn.

by Anonymousreply 14512/28/2020

Who cares, R143? Dr. Quinn was a terrible show.

by Anonymousreply 14612/28/2020

William Shockley played Andrew Carver

by Anonymousreply 14712/28/2020

At least pa wasn’t a rapist

by Anonymousreply 14812/28/2020

R146 SHUT YOUR MOUTH! DR. Quinn was a WONDERFUL show.

R144 William Shockley played Hank Lawson, the local saloon/brothel owner, so rapist tendencies wouldn't have been out of place.

R143 There are several differences. First Dr. Quinn, focused on the family of a Doctor. And, one that came from old Eastern money, at that. Secondly, Colorado Springs was a much larger and established town. It was more like the episodes of Little House where they all move to Winoka or at least when the blind school moved to Sleepy Eye.

by Anonymousreply 14912/28/2020

Start your own Dr Quinn bullshit. Pa was a dick.

by Anonymousreply 15012/28/2020

Pre-industrial revolution, many people earned their living on the land, society was largely agricultural. It was a tough life but it was also typical of most people in your community so it probably didn’t seem so hard. If Pa Ingalls lived today, he’d be constantly trying to start up businesses that failed and his wife would support the family.

by Anonymousreply 15112/28/2020

No one here cares about Dr. Quinn, R149!!

by Anonymousreply 15212/28/2020

I remember when he went on trips to larger cities and always ended up crying about some shit.

by Anonymousreply 15312/28/2020

Well this is quite timely for this thread! On PBS tomorrow night with gay legend Victor Garbor narrating and interviews from former cast members.

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by Anonymousreply 15412/28/2020

This show always made me want to visit Mankato it sounded so glamorous.

by Anonymousreply 15512/28/2020

Wait. Was Plum Creek in Walnut Grove?

by Anonymousreply 15612/28/2020

[quote] If Pa Ingalls lived today, he’d be constantly trying to start up businesses that failed and his wife would support the family.

In a way that did happen on the show. Caroline sold eggs to the Mercantile and ran the restaurant in Winoka and later the one at Nellie's hotel.

by Anonymousreply 15712/28/2020

Laura was actually a cunt in real life and Rose Wilder Lane was a founder of the Libertarian party.

by Anonymousreply 15812/28/2020

IMHO Laura cleaned up the reality of her dad's shiflessness because she wanted her books to be uplifting and popular, and then Landon cleaned him up a bit more because he wanted to play a character that was popular and endearing.

But still, a basic shiftlessness and irresponsibility comes through all that polishing, the reality must have been unbearable.

by Anonymousreply 15912/28/2020

Laura's editor daughter made the story more down-home and Norman Rockwell than it was.

by Anonymousreply 16012/28/2020

Another reason people had so many children in the olden days was because so many died infancy.

Luther Burbank (1849-1926), the horticulturist, was one of 15 children born to his father's three wives, the first two dying in childbirth. Only eight of the children lived to be adults.

by Anonymousreply 16112/28/2020

R115, Almanzo came from a relatively well-off family but struck out to make his own way on the frontier. It went well enough until bad luck struck. He and Laura had diphtheria, their first home burned to the ground (for which he'd secretly gone into debt), crops failed, and then he had a stroke that left him partially paralyzed, making physical labor very hard. It took them decades to establish a stable living for themselves.

Anyone interested in their real story (not including Pa's big dick) and the historical background should read Prairie Fires.

by Anonymousreply 16212/28/2020

Amazingly, Almanzo’s family farm in upstate New York, where the book Farmer Boy takes place, still exists and is a museum. Website is crap, but here’s the link.

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by Anonymousreply 16312/29/2020

Any idea how long the walk was to school, or to town? When Laura and Mary walk to school, is it an hour's walk, fifteen minutes? I can't tell.

by Anonymousreply 16412/29/2020

I’m surprised people didn’t commit suicide more often back then jfc

by Anonymousreply 16512/29/2020

R162 is right...Prairie Fires is a great read that shows the contrast between reality and the LH books. Pa was all over the place and kept investing time and money in places, only to end up abandoning them to move on to some other place. The family was poor, and the settlers were caught up in the government’s battle with the Native American population over land. They were constantly sick and had their crops destroyed by swarms of grasshoppers repeatedly (this was mentioned in the book, but it wasn’t a one-time thing and then, as now, the government was not very generous in bailing out the poor in a disaster). It was a hard life and the kids were along for the ride.

by Anonymousreply 16612/29/2020

Who’s watching the PBS show tonight?

by Anonymousreply 16712/29/2020

Ok, if we're not going to talk more about Kate MacGregor, then I'm leaving this boring thread!

by Anonymousreply 16812/29/2020

What PBS show?

by Anonymousreply 16912/29/2020

this was the manifest destiny period. The US gov gave people money to develop farm land (just to white people though.) Charles Ingalls was looking for good, fertile farm land. Farming was were the money was at. Also, wood which is why they went to walnut grove.

Also, this was a better time for wome. Woman were involved with all kinds of professions, including school teachers.

by Anonymousreply 17012/29/2020

I like Willa Cather better.

by Anonymousreply 17112/29/2020

Pa was a loser with a heart of gold. He was hysterical like a woman.

by Anonymousreply 17212/29/2020

R169 I posted above at R154

by Anonymousreply 17312/29/2020

I read a review of Prairie Fires that went into the family history a bit and they were rabid far right libertarian assholes. Pa was almost certainly mentally ill and dragged the family all over the map because he couldn’t stay still. It’s a shame because I loved the books when I was young.

by Anonymousreply 17412/29/2020

Here’s an interview with the director of tonight’s PBS documentary. An NYU professor says Pa is crazy and they mention that each move drove them deeper into financial ruin.

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by Anonymousreply 17512/29/2020

Rose Wilder Lane was also most likely bipolar, so it had to come from somewhere.

Laura had a younger brother, Charles Frederick Ingalls (called Freddy) who died in infancy, but I don't think she ever wrote about him. She and Manly also had a son, who died after 11 days, and must have been sickly from the start, because they never named him.

by Anonymousreply 17612/29/2020

Thank you R173 / R175...I missed that! I definitely want to watch the documentary.

Maybe the family being poor and also rapid right wing libertarians are related, just as they seem to be today.

by Anonymousreply 17712/29/2020

I used to edge him but not allow him to cum. Then put him in chastity.

It's the quiet gals you have to look out for.

by Anonymousreply 17812/29/2020

Pa is sounding more like my own pa all the time

by Anonymousreply 17912/29/2020

The Charles Ingalls family died out. Mary never married. Laura had her daughter Rose and her son that died within weeks of birth. Rose married and had a son that was either stillborn or died shortly after birth, and then never had other children. Carrie didn't get married until she was her in her 40s. She married an older widower with two kids, but never had her own. Charles Frederick died at about a year old. Grace married a much older man as well and never had kids.

If you read the original manuscript, "Pioneer Girl" it's clear that Laura did not have the best education and Rose did a lot of editing and rewriting to make the Little House series. I found the books to be so boring compared to the series. If they stuck to the books for the TV show, they never would have been renewed after the first season.

Almanzo was also loser who made very bad choices. Most girls marry their fathers, don't they? Even in an interview with Rose he said, "my life has been mostly disappointments."

The one interesting thing in the Pioneer Girl book...Laura talks about an attempted rape when she was a teenager. She was apparently taking care of a sick neighbor with a seizure disorder. While she was sleeping, the neighbor's husband came into the bedroom and told Laura to keep quiet and lie still. She screamed and never went back.

by Anonymousreply 18012/29/2020

The 1909 death certificate for Rose Wilder and Claire Gillette Lane's stillborn son. He was born during the sixth month of pregnancy.

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by Anonymousreply 18112/29/2020

The reason I preferred the books to the TV show was all the descriptions of food, people, environment, etc. They were expressive and did a good job at setting the scene. Even knowing how idealized they are now, I still appreciate the books for that reason.

The show seemed silly to me and even as a kid I felt a little bit like it was an oversimplification.

by Anonymousreply 18212/29/2020

This is the biggest Mary thread I have seen on DL in many months.

by Anonymousreply 18312/29/2020

If pa was a loser Mr Edwards must have basically been a hobo. Even ma disapproved of him even though he gave the girls a penny for Christmas. Also does anybody remember the song he used to sing?

by Anonymousreply 18412/29/2020

The real Almanzo was amazingly good looking as a young man. There are no pictures of the young Charles Ingalls but my guess is he was also sex on a stick. I can't figure out why else Caroline Quiner, who came from a little bit of money and had a stable life, would have married him and stuck with him through all his craziness. The Ingalls women apparently had an eye for manflesh.

by Anonymousreply 18512/29/2020

Pa and Ma weren't great looking.

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by Anonymousreply 18612/29/2020

Almanzo was ok.

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by Anonymousreply 18712/29/2020

Laura was an attractive older woman.

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by Anonymousreply 18812/29/2020

I always thought Laura's real father was Nels Oleson, because Laura looked a lot like Willie.

I figured either Caroline let him cum in her snatch to get back at Pa, or he may have overpowered her while she was trying to sell some brown eggs and Harriet was on an errand.

by Anonymousreply 18912/29/2020

How did Laura get a stud like manly?

by Anonymousreply 19012/29/2020

[quote] The US gov gave people money to develop farm land (just to white people though.)

The land didn't just go to white people. The story of black homesteaders is a little known story that should be told and explored.

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by Anonymousreply 19112/29/2020

But he built that shitty wood structure with no insulation in Minnesota.

by Anonymousreply 19212/29/2020

Yeah r192 I always wondered what the fuck was wrong with him. Like are you trying to kill your family?

by Anonymousreply 19312/29/2020

Old Dan Tucker!

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by Anonymousreply 19412/29/2020

That's so weird that the boys died at birth or in infancy for three generations. Some sort of genetic complication or just a sad coincidence?

by Anonymousreply 19512/29/2020

R190 she was a sturdy gal, that’s why. She had a squat efficient plow horse-like frame and probably all of her teeth.

That was practically a supermodel back then.

by Anonymousreply 19612/29/2020

R177, the right-wing libertarian stuff came later when Laura's books were successful, and I think mostly from her daughter.

R190, Laura was quite pretty and obviously a good catch--she basically supported her family while Pa continued failing.

R192, aren't American homes still horribly built? It's crazy to me that my parents huge home has one heating/cooling control for the whole house.

R195, miscarriages, infant/child death, and women dying as a result of childbirth were commonplace until the medical advances of the 20th century.

by Anonymousreply 19712/29/2020

The documentary positions Laura being tasked by Pa to be Mary’s eyes after she goes blind as the point she sees the world in a larger scope and develops the descriptive language that will become important to her as a writer.

by Anonymousreply 19812/29/2020

I know this is likely to be unpopular opinion, since we all have to rail at the SJWs, but I really like how they’ve been handling this reevaluate of the Little House books.

No one has insisted that she be canceled, just considered more fully. They did take her name off an award, which I honestly think is reasonable given that the World Fantasy Award did the same with Lovecraft.

by Anonymousreply 19912/30/2020

R186, that beard is disgusting. Did he grow it to be "ironic"? Were they hipster douchebags living in Brooklyn?

by Anonymousreply 20012/30/2020

[quote]Laura was quite pretty and obviously a good catch

So why did they hire Melissa Gilbert to play her on tv?

by Anonymousreply 20112/30/2020

"This show always made me want to visit Mankato it sounded so glamorous."

It's not.

by Anonymousreply 20212/30/2020

Medical care on the frontier ranged from basic to nonexistent. If there was a doctor in town, a farmer who needed medical care for one of his children could ride into town and hope his wife could keep the kid alive while he was gone, and he'd be gone for hours going to town and back and the doctor would come when he could make the trip. When the doctor arrived he had no antibiotics, oxygen, antivirals, he could set broken limbs or maybe remove an appendix on the kitchen table (without anesthetics) and give the patient a slug of laudanum to get them through, but that was about it, and the doctor needed paying in cash or eggs or firewood. There weren't any hospitals out on the frontier, if a person needed major surgery to remove a tumor or save their sight or whatever, that meant a trip to a "city" and debt the family would never be able to pay because there was no medical insurance, so it was routine for people to die or go disabled because the family couldn't afford treatment.

The country doctors were nearly as poor as the people they treated, for all their education and college degrees, and were probably owed money by every poor family in their territory. Which is why some of the medical schools that produced poor country doctors started admitting women towards the end of the 19th century (I read a biography of such a female country doctor), they couldn't get enough men to sign up for such a gruelling, comfortless, thankless lifestyle.

by Anonymousreply 20312/30/2020

I’d like to discuss Pa Ingalls more

by Anonymousreply 20401/01/2021

Thank you, Wikipedia, I mean R203.

I read a couple of the books and then grew out of it--the detail was lovely. I felt I could see and touch the landscape, the food, etc. Ingalls was very gifted. I think she wrote too many books and got fucked up in later life, just like so many on DL. (minus the books)

by Anonymousreply 20501/01/2021

Thank you, Wikipedia, I mean R203.

I read a couple of the books and then grew out of it--the detail was lovely. I felt I could see and touch the landscape, the food, etc. Ingalls was very gifted. I think she wrote too many books and got fucked up in later life, just like so many on DL. (minus the books)

by Anonymousreply 20601/01/2021

It really is funny to re-read the LH books as an adult. I never realized when I was a kid that the Ingalls' situation kept getting worse as the books went on. In Little House in the Big Woods, they are portrayed as halfway successful. They have a decent house, good crops, and plenty of food. Also, they are close to family.

But Pa Ingalls got tired of plowing around stumps and had to move out west. Then everything went to hell.

I recently read Prarie Fires and Pioneer Girl. Each of them make it clear that the Ingalls were really destitute for most of the time during Laura's childhood. She really papered over Pa's failures in the books.

by Anonymousreply 20701/01/2021
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by Anonymousreply 20801/01/2021

Did daddy drink a little? And Michael Landon a lot?

by Anonymousreply 20901/01/2021

Still pissed the only teaching job Hester Sue could get was at the damn Blind School.

by Anonymousreply 21001/01/2021

Nellie Oleson was right.

by Anonymousreply 21101/01/2021

Nellie knew a loser when she saw one

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by Anonymousreply 21201/01/2021

In her autobiography "Prairie Tale", Melissa Gilbert said Michael Landon, and many of the show's crew members, abused alcohol on the set of this show everyday. "He was always a hard worker and hard drinker", she writes, "and he and the crew would regularly have a few drinks of alcohol on the set, which is probably part of why he might have developed pancreatic cancer at such a young age." Landon was known to smoke three to four packs of unfiltered cigarettes a day, as well as to notoriously step out on all his wives.

by Anonymousreply 21301/01/2021

All unresolved issues from his bed wetting days, therapy would have done Landon good.

by Anonymousreply 21401/01/2021

Wasn't Michael Landon a rightwing Christian and a big bully on Bonanza.

by Anonymousreply 21501/02/2021

Do you think Melissa Gilbert ever masterbated to thoughts of Pa?

by Anonymousreply 21601/02/2021

R215 Michael Landon was Jewish and remained so through his death. You might be thinking of his son Michael Landon Jr. who is an evangelical Christian.

by Anonymousreply 21701/02/2021

Pa was the worst kind of loser. Continually knocking up Caroline with no intention to provide for those kids. The only reason he didn't abandon his family is probably because he was too lazy to get far enough.

by Anonymousreply 21801/30/2021

I knew a woman who knew Katherine MacGregor and she said there was no acting in her performance. That’s who she was in real life.

by Anonymousreply 21901/30/2021

[quote]Bitch was always dizzy & limping.

That made me laugh, R35.

by Anonymousreply 22001/30/2021

No, R80, it was a Chifforobe.

by Anonymousreply 22101/30/2021

Was pa constantly crying in real life? Was that normal for men back then?

by Anonymousreply 22202/21/2021

The little house troll is earning her combat pay

by Anonymousreply 22302/21/2021

Laura’s pa smells like a hog!

by Anonymousreply 22402/22/2021

Pau was abusive. He whipped 8 year old Laura with a strap in Little House in the Big Woods.

by Anonymousreply 22502/22/2021

He beat Mary with a sack of potatoes until she went blind and then sent her to a school for the blind in Iowa, where she was repeatedly assaulted by roving gangs of men and ending up killing Hester Sue in a fiery inferno.

That episode was on today. I was busy reading the latest McCalls, so some of the details are fuzzy.

by Anonymousreply 22602/22/2021

The proposal in Golden Years must be the coldest in literature.

'Your hand is so small!' Almanzo said. 'How would you like an engagement ring?'

'That would depend on who gave it to me', Laura answered.

'And if it was me?'

'Then it would depend on the ring.' Laura drew her hand away.

by Anonymousreply 227Last Monday at 6:56 PM

Laura's marriage to 'Manly' lasted for over 70 years. The first four years the wheat crop failed every year, they had a baby who died aged 3 weeks and then Laura forgot to watch the fire and the house burnt down.

by Anonymousreply 228Last Monday at 6:59 PM

[QUOTE] In The Long Winter, he's constantly going to the general store to eat, while his wife and children are starving.

Almanzo and his brother are described as eating about 30 pancakes each with molasses and bacon while the whole of De Smet (ugliest town name ever) is starving. They invite Pa to eat and instead of wrapping some up for his family, Pa wolfs down a stack of 12!

Almanzo comes across as quite selfish too. He forces a local homesteader to sell all his seed wheat so that Almanzo doesn't have to sell his. He keeps his in a secret compartment in the wall, but Pa realises it's there and helps himself to a few pails of grain.

by Anonymousreply 229Last Monday at 7:05 PM

[QUOTE] And, I think it was little Carrie, who was devastated when Mary left to go to school. Mary's one job was taking care of her, and I'm sure she was the mother figure in Carrie's life, so to have her leave suddenly would have been traumatic.

The youngest was Grace, not Carrie. Carrie was ten when Mary left home.

I got annoyed at Pa for taking Laura's teaching pay (about 80 dollars) and persuading her to spend it on an organ for Mary to play when she came home in vacations, when Laura had no use for an organ but loved horses and would have much preferred to buy a pony. After she married Almanzo, she went horse crazy.

by Anonymousreply 230Last Monday at 7:17 PM
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