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Vivian Vance and Desi Arnaz

Sometimes I wonder if they ever had a fling or at least a mutual attraction. When I was a teen, I read every Lucy biography in print (yes MARY!!!!!) and I don't remember reading about this possibility. But they both seemed to indulge their base instincts quite liberally (Desi a known womanizer; Viv married four times, and she was also "the other woman" in her third marriage). Additionally, on the show, Viv is very often demonstrative with Desi -- leaning into him, putting her arm over his shoulder, etc. I remember reading Viv often took Desi's side in his arguments with Lucy, and she thought Lucy was too hard on him regarding his drinking.

It does make me wonder if anything was happening behind the scenes.

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by Anonymousreply 34719 hours ago

I shudder to think…..

by Anonymousreply 112/26/2020

As an aside: here is a Viv picture I'd never seen before:

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by Anonymousreply 212/26/2020

When Desi was drinking, they had threesomes with Fred.

by Anonymousreply 312/26/2020

As soon as I posted this, the "Why are so many DLers stuck in the 1950s?" thread popped up.

by Anonymousreply 412/26/2020

Desi was one hot Cuban

by Anonymousreply 512/26/2020
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by Anonymousreply 612/26/2020

Phil Ober wasn't bad looking.

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by Anonymousreply 712/26/2020

Well, how else do you think I gained those contractually obligated 15 pounds? Cuban cum puts on the pounds.

by Anonymousreply 812/26/2020

Op I think you got your hard evidence at R6

by Anonymousreply 912/26/2020

Desi was very charismatic and gave Vivian her big break, she was appreciative and it showed. He was also her boss and it always pays to suck-up to the boss

by Anonymousreply 1012/26/2020

I think Lucy would have killed her and they would certainly not have remained friends. (To the extent Lucy had any.)

by Anonymousreply 1112/26/2020

Desi fucked men. This was no secret.

by Anonymousreply 1212/26/2020

Was there anyone Desi WOULDN'T fuck?

by Anonymousreply 1312/26/2020

Yes, R13. Lucille Ball.

That's why she divorced him.

by Anonymousreply 1412/26/2020

I too noticed that Vivian was a little handsy with Desi on some episodes.

by Anonymousreply 1512/26/2020

Viv preferred women.

by Anonymousreply 1612/26/2020

Viv sucked a mean cock!

by Anonymousreply 1712/26/2020

Haha okay r14, I walked right into that one.

by Anonymousreply 1812/26/2020

Viv had a mean cock!

by Anonymousreply 1912/26/2020

I think Desi had, ahem, a certain type, and I don't think Viv fit that bill.

by Anonymousreply 2012/26/2020

He didn't have time to play around with Viv. He was too busy shtupping Elizabeth "Mrs. Trumble" Patterson. Oh, and by the way, everyone knows that isn't Phil Ober in the photos, that Dory Schary!

by Anonymousreply 2112/26/2020

R21, I really don't think he would have gone for Elizabeth Patterson. He seemed to like em younger and blonder. As for that pic, yes that really is Phil Ober but he did resemble Schary a bit, so I could see the confusion. Fun fact: Ober played Chary on an episode of ILL after Schary backed out.

by Anonymousreply 2212/26/2020

If it hadn't been for his marriage to Lucy he would have been a footnote in Latin American music.He had it all. All he had to do was lay off the sauce and keep his pecker in his pants. But oh no.

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by Anonymousreply 2312/26/2020

He was no Xavier Valdez, that's for sure.

by Anonymousreply 2412/26/2020

Lucy was a cunt in that interview, if it wasn't for Desi's smarts Lucy would have been a footnote in the Hollywood "B" actress catagory

by Anonymousreply 2512/26/2020

[quote]Lucy was a cunt

You could have stopped there, r25

by Anonymousreply 2612/26/2020

For me, the best episodes were the ones where it was more of an ensemble, not the ones where Ball was doing her shtick and constantly mugging for the camera, like the overrated vitameatavegamin episode.

by Anonymousreply 2712/26/2020

R27 is unpoopular.

by Anonymousreply 2812/26/2020

Paging the "I've had sufficient" troll! You're sorely needed.

by Anonymousreply 2912/26/2020

... but not wrong, r28

by Anonymousreply 3012/26/2020

r29 For the umpteent time, the quote is "I HAVE sufficient."

by Anonymousreply 3112/26/2020

r22 obviously didn't get it...

by Anonymousreply 3212/26/2020

r22 is either humor-impaired or needs to get his sarcasm-ometer tuned up.

by Anonymousreply 3312/26/2020

R17, So did Mary Wickes.

by Anonymousreply 3412/26/2020

In OP's photo Viv is not so much dressed for a formal occasion as for vacuuming the living room.

by Anonymousreply 3512/26/2020

r35 the dress she wore when she won the Emmy (at OP) was a dress she wore on the show.

Did they just go to the ceremony directly from filming and not change??

by Anonymousreply 3612/26/2020

R25 I agree but she admits that he worked very hard and got them their start. She called him a loser only in the sense that he destroyed what he had built. Almost like a compulsion.

by Anonymousreply 3712/26/2020

The idea of VV's lipsticked mouth wrapped around his girthy, hooded pinga....

by Anonymousreply 3812/26/2020

Desi was the brains behind the show, but on air, among the four he was the weakest.

He got better as the show progressed, though.

by Anonymousreply 3912/26/2020

I love Lucy and Viv dancing poolside at 1:10...

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by Anonymousreply 4012/26/2020

[quote] girthy, hooded pinga....

Now you have my attention

by Anonymousreply 4112/26/2020

Viv liked sucking his uncut pinga.

by Anonymousreply 4212/26/2020

Cesar Romero already outed Desi. The two of them hooked up numerous times and Lucy actually thought Desi was gay. Desi would literally fuck anything. Both Lucy and Desi were very gay-friendly.

by Anonymousreply 4312/26/2020

"Both Lucy and Desi were very gay-friendly."

Thanking my lucky stars!

by Anonymousreply 4412/26/2020

Marry me, r44!

by Anonymousreply 4512/26/2020

Thanks to whoever posted those photos upthread with Viv and Bill Frawley actually looking like they had some love and respect for each other. Sometimes I wonder if their supposed mutual "hatred" was really true or just an exaggerated Hollywood legend.

by Anonymousreply 4612/26/2020

^^ Lucy said the Fred-Ethel feud had been exaggerated.

by Anonymousreply 4712/26/2020

The problem with Desi wasn't just that he was a cheater, but that he wouldn't leave Lucille Ball alone. Even after their divorce he would show up drunk outside her house in the evenings, and she would take him in and let him maudlinly complain how he had thrown it all away and sleep it off on her couch. Her new husband Gary Morton would complain, but she would say., "What else can I do? Where else can he go?" She always cared about him but I don't think they ever hooked up again.

by Anonymousreply 4812/26/2020

[quote]Her new husband Gary Morton would complain

He should have just talked her out of letting him stay

by Anonymousreply 4912/26/2020

You'd think, r49.

by Anonymousreply 5012/26/2020

Was there a worldwide Vasoline shortage after that interview footage at r23 was shot?

by Anonymousreply 5112/26/2020

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Gary had wise advice for Desi when he would come over. He told him not to to take over the lead role in "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" when Clint Eastwood wanted to bow out, saying, "Yes, of course you can wear a serape and a sombrero well; but no one wants to see The Man with No Name shouting "HONEY, YOU GOT SOME 'SPLAININ' TO DO!" to Lee van Cleef." Of course, he was right: and the studio offered more money to Eastwood, and the rest was history.

by Anonymousreply 5212/26/2020

[quote]Viv liked sucking his uncut pinga.

Viv had to do everything for that Cunt Lucy

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by Anonymousreply 5312/26/2020

In the 1940's J Edgar Hoover had Desi Arnaz arrested on trumped up charges. He had police take photographs of him completely naked during a strip search which Hoover kept. Hoover was HOT IN THE PANTS for Arnaz after seeing him in a B movie.

by Anonymousreply 5412/26/2020

Compared to that Barbara Walters interview, Mame was shot in ultra-high focus.

by Anonymousreply 5512/26/2020

Blah. Desi wasn't unattractive but he was Fernando Lamas in the looks department. Esther Williams told an amusing story about Lucy & Desi in her ridiculous memoirs. So by all means, take it with a grain of salt!

Miss Williams claimed that in the 1940s when Lucille Ball & herself were both signed to MGM, that a lot of the female stars would chat in the makeup room as they were getting done up for the day's filming. According to Miss Williams, one day as the girls were chatting/dishing away, Lucy semi-humorously remarked "And don't you girls get any ideas about my Desi! He's all mine!". To which a confused Esther replied "You don't have to worry about that, Dear. I don't think he's all that good-looking."

Esther claimed that Lucy's reaction was at first one of shock & disbelief. Then she supposedly threw a fit and wept at the mere thought that someone didn't think that Desi was the most handsome man in Hollywood! LOL

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by Anonymousreply 5612/26/2020

Obviously I meant to say that Desi Arnaz was NO Fernando Lamas in the looks department.

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by Anonymousreply 5712/26/2020

Desi was very hot when he and Lucy first met in 1940 for "Too Many Girls"; but he is one of those guys like Beck Bennett on SNL who, if he just gains a few pounds, suddenly doesn't look so good. In Desi's case it has to do with a weakish chin and someone effeminate features. Throughout "I Love Lucy" he looked fine, but never sexy.

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by Anonymousreply 5812/26/2020

Desi was just as smoking hot in his prime as Fernando was. The booze did a number on him.

by Anonymousreply 5912/26/2020

Lucy didn't go for booze and broads.

by Anonymousreply 6012/26/2020

Poor Lucy. Even after the divorce, new marriages and a few decades, it was obvious that she still loved that Cuban SOB with all her heart.

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by Anonymousreply 6112/26/2020

Desi was what I'd describe as cute sexy when he was very young in Too Many Girls but, you know, that kind of sexy doesn't last with aging. Fernando, Cesar Romero, Gilbert Roland and Ricardo Montalban were all far hotter in the Latin Lover department.

by Anonymousreply 6212/26/2020

[quote]Obviously I meant to say that Desi Arnaz was NO Fernando Lamas in the looks department.

Fernando Lamas was no son Lorenzo Lamas in the looks department.

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by Anonymousreply 6312/26/2020

R61 meet r23

by Anonymousreply 6412/26/2020

That-A-Girl, R62! You picked all my favorites. Gilbert Roland doesn't get the respect he deserves. A delicious hunk of Mexican Carne de Vaca (Beef) that remained mouthwatering from the beginning to the end of his career. How Constance Bennett was able to pry his uncut cock from her lips long enough to divorce him is beyond me!

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by Anonymousreply 6512/26/2020

R63, Lorenzo was prettier in his heyday but Fernando aged better!

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by Anonymousreply 6612/26/2020

Fernando Lamas' cock is the gift that keeps on giving! Generation after generation! Here's Lorenzo's son, A.J..

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by Anonymousreply 6712/26/2020

I actually think Lorenzo looked his hottest when he was barely out of his teens and still had a little baby fat on him. All of his muscling up (and maybe the steroids?) made him look too harsh and badly aged him. His weak jawline became more apparent. After Falcon Crest it was all downhill.

by Anonymousreply 6812/26/2020

Why was Esther Williams such a bitch?

by Anonymousreply 6912/26/2020

R62, they were all suave. Ricky never was. His performances were all very limited. He could be angry and sputtering in a Cuban accent or he could be silly in a Cuban accent. And he could play music.

by Anonymousreply 7012/26/2020

My grandmother was a telephone operator. This was when they could actually listen to calls. She would take a lot of calls from Palm Springs. She told me once Lucille called the fire department. She came home and found Desi in bed with another woman and set the kitchen on fire.

by Anonymousreply 7112/26/2020

R69, Esther was bitter for a few different reasons. Originally because she had an awkward, somewhat manly figure and could never compete with the true beauties (Ava Gardner, Rita Hayworth, etc) of her day.

She also was bitter because Fernando Lamas forced her to disown her 2 sons (from a previous marriage) while they were small children, if she wanted to hold on to his uncut Argentinian Cock. She chose Fernando over her children and they both (unsurprisingly) ended up with with serious drug/mental health issues. Mother of the year!

by Anonymousreply 7212/26/2020

Really, r71, who here on DL *hasn't* done that?

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by Anonymousreply 7312/26/2020

Fred: Oh, for corn's sake, they're at it again! Don't those two ever sleep?! It's two A.M!

Ethel: Ricky's a not-blooded Latin lover and his thick 9 inches need relief!

Fred: How would you know it's thick?! And besides, is at least 10!

by Anonymousreply 7412/26/2020

ILL 98

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by Anonymousreply 7512/26/2020

Desi must've walked around with a continuous raging hard-on the week Barbara Eden guest starred. I read he tried to seduce her, but she was having none of that.

by Anonymousreply 7612/26/2020

Romero was quoted as saying that he blew Desi once. Desi said something along the lines of, "We both know you want to do it so let's get it over with."

If it had been an ongoing affair, Romero likely would have said so. IF Boze Hadleigh was telling the truth in the first place.

by Anonymousreply 7712/26/2020

LOL @ R77. I'm not familiar with Boze Hadleigh? When did Romero ever discuss his conquests? I'd love to read it!

by Anonymousreply 7812/26/2020

R76, Barbara Eden was quite a dish during her 1950s sexpot phase. I love her ILL episode!

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by Anonymousreply 7912/26/2020

I have to say that Barbara Eden was a hot piece of ass. Who could blame him for wanting to get a some of that?

by Anonymousreply 8012/26/2020

Caesar Romeo was straight. Maybe he occasionally experimented with other men, as they all did, but make no mistake about it...he overwhelmingly liked pussy.

by Anonymousreply 8112/26/2020

Who told you that, r81?

by Anonymousreply 8212/26/2020

LOL @ delusional R81.

I remember watching an old 70s episode of Hollywood Squares. I can't remember why, but "Butch" Romero (Butch was his nickname) was mentioned for some reason. Without missing a beat and with a twinkle in his eye, Paul Lynde exclaimed "Ahhhhhhh yes.....Cesar! That old Butch thing! *tehehehe*" LOL. This went completely over the heads of the studio audience, but us Gays knew exactly what the implication was!

When Old Hollywood Queens like Miss Lynde are randomly & matter-of-factly dishing about you on national television.......there just may be some truth to the rumors. BTW R81, Butch Romero never married or had children. And you're the first person I've ever seen suggest that he was some sort of pussyhound! LOL. He was beloved by all the Hollywood Leading Ladies of the 1930s thru 50s, was a "harmless" escort for painting the town and was known as a great dancer. This one's quite obvious!

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by Anonymousreply 8312/26/2020

Viv was well known throughout Hollywood for her oral skills. Didn't you bitches read her biography?

by Anonymousreply 8412/26/2020

Bill Frawley said that Viv's body was "like a sack of door knobs". Whatever he meant by that.

by Anonymousreply 8512/26/2020

Ethel gets murdered!

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by Anonymousreply 8612/26/2020

R85, it means that she's obese and riddled with fat pockets poking out all over the place.

R86, "The Secret Fury" is an excellent Claudette Colbert film-noir.

by Anonymousreply 8712/26/2020

Actually, it was Fred Mertz who said that about his wife's body, not Bill about Viv. Important distinction.

by Anonymousreply 8812/26/2020

If Cesar wore those trousers up any higher, he wouldn't need a shirt.

by Anonymousreply 8912/26/2020

They're cut high. Where the narrow self-belt is, that's his waist.

by Anonymousreply 9012/26/2020

[quote]Barbara Eden was quite a dish during her 1950s sexpot phase.

Oh, but YES!

by Anonymousreply 9112/27/2020

[quote]Barbara Eden was quite a dish during her 1950s sexpot phase.

Oh, but YES!

by Anonymousreply 9212/27/2020

I'd like to know how Eden got that part if she didn't sleep with Desi. I think she's being disingenuous. And she had to have had one of the best nose jobs in the history of the world.

by Anonymousreply 9312/27/2020

Eden I tend to believe. However, don't tell me that he didn't fuck Joi Lansing? I'm sure Desi's nose looked like it was balancing two ping pong balls the moment he saw her. Oh and btw lol at r91/r92.

by Anonymousreply 9412/27/2020

Eden is tiresome repeating her Desi story endlessly. She was a nobody in those days.

by Anonymousreply 9512/27/2020

Why would Desi care if Barbara Eden was a nobody back then? Seems to me her body was all he cared about.

by Anonymousreply 9612/27/2020

He probably would have preferred a nobody. Nobodys are more willing to get down to find a way to come up.

by Anonymousreply 9712/27/2020

[quote] Esther was bitter for a few different reasons. Originally because she had an awkward, somewhat manly figure and could never compete with the true beauties (Ava Gardner, Rita Hayworth, etc) of her day.

"Wet, she's a star! Dry, she ain't."

-- Fanny Brice on Esther Williams

by Anonymousreply 9812/27/2020

Is anyone here as old as me and remembers Barbara Eden as one of the 3 stars of a short-lived sit-com of How to Marry a Millionaire that played in endless reruns throughout my 1950s/early 60s childhood? She was adorable in the Marilyn Monroe role, Loco (which was the Betty Grable character's name in the film). The other girls, whose careers didn't seem to go on to much else were Merry Anderson as Mike (!) and Lori Nelson as Greta. Anyone?

by Anonymousreply 9912/27/2020

There are episodes on Youtube, r99.

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by Anonymousreply 10012/27/2020

A bit o'Millionaire...

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by Anonymousreply 10112/27/2020

Desi Arnaz was so hot

by Anonymousreply 10212/27/2020

Xavier Valdez was hotter.

by Anonymousreply 10312/27/2020

Mickey was no Francis X. Bushman.

by Anonymousreply 10412/27/2020

Did Desi fuck Mary Jane Croft. Her oral skills must've been superior to earn three different roles on the show.

by Anonymousreply 10512/27/2020

Latin men aren't exactly known for fidelity and being highly sexed. Pick one; French, Spanish, Cuban, etc......

There are women they marry, and there are those they fuck, normally the two are quite separate. Lucky ones like María Eva Duarte (Evita Peron) get the grand prize. Others must be content with their lot or move on.

Latin men can be charming, passionate, hot both in the sack and out, attractive and the rest of things, but there are always going to be those you'll have to be willing to share if you want them at all.

by Anonymousreply 10612/27/2020

Desi fucked everyone, from Mary Jane Croft to Vivian Vance to Cesar Romero to Frank "YESSSSSSS???" Nelson to Lassie. Sometimes he fucked them all at the same time.

Why was he so irresistible? Because when he played the maracas, he went chick chicky boom chick chicky boom!

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by Anonymousreply 10712/27/2020

Ricky fucked Cynthia Harcourt in her Waldolf penthouse.

by Anonymousreply 10812/27/2020

Call me a Mary, but I always felt bad when Lucy had to play the Lucy is jealous plots on the show. I always wondered if they hit a little close to home for her.

by Anonymousreply 10912/27/2020

"Arnaz would deny cheating on her, but there was little effort put into his denials. Arnaz also once stated that he loved Ball, and since the women he went out with were hookers, it didn’t count as cheating. Some of Arnaz’s womanizing ways calmed down when daughter, Lucie, was born. However, it didn’t last long."

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by Anonymousreply 11012/27/2020

Again that Latin male mentality....

"“What’s she upset about?” Arnaz said of wife and costar Lucille Ball. “I don’t take out other broads. I just take out hookers.”

Of course advice from other women at the time or before including Mrs. Moorehead (mother of Mary Haines) was " for heaven sake he doesn't love this girl.. if he did you'd have felt it a long time ago" And "keep still, keep still when your fairly bursting to talk....

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by Anonymousreply 11112/27/2020

Vivian was probably the only female Desilu employee Desi never fucked.

by Anonymousreply 11212/27/2020

r98 If she ever actually said that, it was about Eleanor Holm, not Esther Williams. Billy Rose (Fanny's second husband) was having an affair with Holm, who he eventually married.

by Anonymousreply 11312/27/2020

Had Desi so much as given Viv a second glance, Lucy would have scratched Viv's eyes out and Ethel Mertz would have been back in Albuquerque "taking care of her ill mother" until her contract ran out.

by Anonymousreply 11412/27/2020

I'd have told Lucy to go fuck herself, but Desi already took care of that.

by Anonymousreply 11512/28/2020

By the by, why did Viv knowingly marry a gay man in a LTR? Did she want a platonic marriage, or did she think she could "convert" him?

by Anonymousreply 11612/28/2020
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by Anonymousreply 11712/28/2020

I guess by the time Viv married her last of 4 husbands, she was just looking for a trusted companion, not sex. And it worked out very well for her.

by Anonymousreply 11812/28/2020

I believe you are correct, r113.

by Anonymousreply 11912/28/2020

So much cum down Viv’s mouth.

by Anonymousreply 12012/28/2020

This never fails to make me laugh.

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by Anonymousreply 12112/28/2020

^that's the episode where Ethel fucked Billy Hackett.

by Anonymousreply 12212/28/2020

I can't find a clip, but Viv totally made this scene. I think she deserved another Emmy for it

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by Anonymousreply 12312/28/2020

Iirc, this episode was the first time she sang in public after her nervous breakdown. She had too much anxiety about performing and thought she'd lost the ability to pull it off.

I have always suspected her mental health issues were directly related to her abusive marriage.

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by Anonymousreply 12412/28/2020

I watched that episode again a month ago, r123. Lucille was absolutely fearless in her physical comedy.

by Anonymousreply 12512/28/2020

R94 Even "Little Rickey" Keith Thibadeaux saw the sexual antics of Joi Lansing and Desi. In one of my Lucy books, he said even at that young age he knew something was up and that it could not turn out good. Joi appeared in a later hour episode, but by then the marriage was all but over, and Lucy didn't care about her being cast. Desilu execs had to rescue Desi from a brothel when his drunken antics acted up, of course it was hush hush.

by Anonymousreply 12612/28/2020

Sheila MacRae wrote a quickly-forgotten autobiography, in which she said that at a party one night, Lucille Ball came into a room full of Hollywood wives and sat down next to Sheila, saying loudly, "I like you, Sheila, you're the only woman in this room who hasn't slept with my husband."

by Anonymousreply 12712/28/2020

I believe you're referring to Mrs. Gordon MacRae, r127.

by Anonymousreply 12812/28/2020

How could anyone *not* expect Desi to succumb to Joi's vixen charms???

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by Anonymousreply 12912/28/2020

Oh, the delightful Mrs. Gordon MacRae. Mrs. Richard Carlson was a dog. Mrs. Forrest Tucker could barely walk.

by Anonymousreply 13012/28/2020

Can someone remind me in which episodes of ILL Joi Lansing appeared? I'm drawing a blank.

by Anonymousreply 13112/28/2020

NNDB (Tracking the entire world)...states Desi was bisexual, slept with Caesar Romero and Richard Kollmar (husband of Dorothy Kilgallen).

by Anonymousreply 13212/28/2020

I get such a kick out of it when you sing BA-BA-LLLLLLOOOOO.

by Anonymousreply 13312/28/2020

I find them fascinating. There's was such a tragic love story, and such the polar opposite of what they projected on screen.

by Anonymousreply 13412/28/2020

Lucy and Desi's marriage was so emblematic of the 1950s, an era that's been simplistically labeled as sweetly bland and light-hearted but was just so much more complex.

by Anonymousreply 13512/28/2020

R131 I dug out my "The Lucy Book" which chronicles every TV appearance to a nit picking degree. Joi was in EP 161 "Desert Island" along with Claude Akins. Keith Thibadeaux remem " "bers Claude's bad breath LOL. She also appeared in an hour EP #9, "Lucy wants a career." To quote: "The marriage had totally unraveled, Joi's appearance no longer mattered to Lucy, she was a welcome addition to the cast."

by Anonymousreply 13612/28/2020

Claude Akins...

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by Anonymousreply 13712/28/2020

Joi appeared on an episode of The Mothers-In-Law, which was produced by Desi, so I i they were still fucking well into the 1960s.

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by Anonymousreply 13812/28/2020

I thought Claude Akins was very sexy when I was a teenager. Maybe it was the chest hair or the swarthy features that got me.

I kept waiting for a shirtless image of him to show up in the National Enquirer. I was young.....

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by Anonymousreply 13912/28/2020

Gosh, r139, Clint Walker had all that and was actually good-looking.

by Anonymousreply 14012/28/2020

Did Caesar Romero swallow Desi’s cum?

by Anonymousreply 14112/28/2020

Some like jolie laide, r140.

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by Anonymousreply 14212/28/2020

Women of that generation put up with a lot of stuff. Mostly because of limited options, but Lucy's options weren't limited. I just think he was the love of her life and she's just overlooked his flaws.

As for Viv, didn't one of her husbands beat her?

by Anonymousreply 14312/28/2020

Aunt Martha and Uncle Elmo!

by Anonymousreply 14412/28/2020

[quote] Why was Esther Williams such a bitch?

She and John Amos resented Jimmy Walker's popularity and how Good Times became JJ-centric.

by Anonymousreply 14512/28/2020

R145 You are talking about Esther Rolle. Not Esther Williams. This is Esther Williams.

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by Anonymousreply 14612/28/2020

Yes, Phil Ober (r2 / r7)

by Anonymousreply 14712/28/2020

r143 Here are Viv and Phil around the time they met in 1940. He was already married and their affair produced a minor scandal. Her mental health declined steadily in the years following their 1941 marriage; in 1945, she suffered a nervous breakdown (onstage during a production of The Voice of the Turtle) and retired from performing for a few years, becoming completely dependent on Phil, to the point she was terrified to leave their apartment without him. She eventually began psychotherapy, which lasted many years, including her entire tenure on I Love Lucy.

I think the evidence is clear he deliberately tried to undermine her mental health during the Lucy years. Lucy and others in their orbit claimed he beat Viv regularly. On one occasion, he chased her around their Pacific Palisades home with a knife. He made her keep records of every moment of her day: where she would go, who she would talk to, and discouraged friendships. He told her, infamously, that there were rumors she and Lucy were lesbian lovers: "You should watch the hugging and kissing you do on the show. You act like a dyke in heat." These accusations tormented her.

While her success on I Love Lucy exacerbated the situation -- he was extremely jealous of it -- I think the marriage was abusive long before Viv made her debut as Ethel Mertz.

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by Anonymousreply 14812/29/2020

Also, there were many small parts Phil could have played on ILL, and Viv asked as much, but Lucy disliked him so much -- she once remarked he was scary to be around -- that he only appeared twice: very early in the series in "The Quiz Show" (below) and, more notably, in "Don Juan is Shelved." But the latter was unplanned, as he stepped in at the last minute, and sometimes I think you can see Lucy's irritation at him creeping out in that episode.

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by Anonymousreply 14912/29/2020

The irony is when Desi discovered Viv, she was doing a revival of Voice of the Turtle at the La Jolla Playhouse, the role she was performing on tour when she'd earlier had her nervous breakdown onstage that led to her temporary retirement. ILL producer Marc Daniels insisted Desi see her in the show because he thought she'd be great for Ethel. Supposedly, Desi was so enthusiastic, they visited Viv during intermission and asked her to come in and audition.

Another fun fact: when Viv had nervous breakdown on the Turtle tour, she was replaced by her understudy, Patricia Neal.

by Anonymousreply 15012/29/2020

She should've stayed in La Jolla. Burp.

by Anonymousreply 15112/29/2020

Did Desi have his way with Peggy Rea before she became obese?

by Anonymousreply 15212/29/2020

[quote]Caesar Romero

CESAR, not Caesar.

by Anonymousreply 15312/29/2020

Voice of the Turtle...

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by Anonymousreply 15412/29/2020

Thanks r154! I'd forgotten Ronald Reagan was in the film version

by Anonymousreply 15512/30/2020

Did Desi fuck Gloria Blondell? They oozed sexual chemistry on the anniversary present episode.

by Anonymousreply 15612/30/2020

I think the entire film has been forgotten, r155. I've never seen it and I don't remember it ever being on TV when I was a kid. The trailer doesn't make it look particularly interesting. The play an for 1,557 performances, making it the fourth longest-running Broadway play at that time. The film came out in 1947. Interesting that they cast second tier actors in the lead roles. Eleanor would have to wait until 1951 for Detective Story. I guess Miss Margaret Sullavan wasn't interested in eating yesterday's stew.


From Wiki:

Many critics compared the film to the original play, which finished its Broadway run one week after the film's release. Time magazine complained, "The movie is most coyly prurient where the play was most pleasantly candid," while the New York Times found the film version more satisfying because it was "morally wholesome and ideally romantic."

by Anonymousreply 15712/30/2020

r157 I think it was very much a play and film of its time -- the social scene on the home front during WWII.

by Anonymousreply 15812/30/2020

That's what I was assuming, r158. I was thinking the casting choices showed little faith in the strength of the material, but it was probably the reverse. They thought the play's name would boost Reagan's and Parker's careers. According to Warner Bros records the film earned $2,617,000 domestically and $499,000 foreign.


And speaking of a play/movie of its time...

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by Anonymousreply 15912/30/2020

After all that, The Voice of the Turtle has never had a major New York revival.

Broadway has been littered with huge hit plays with similar fates. Mary, Mary and Take Her, She's Mine and Never Too Late, all from the 1960s come to mind.

by Anonymousreply 16012/30/2020

I can't remember where I read it. but they were interested in Miss Crawford to replace Miss Sullavan. Joan went in and read for the powers that be. Apparently she was wonderful. When they offered it to her, she turned them down. She told them she couldn't possibly do the same show night after night and that she came in to read just to see if she could do it (and assumedly get the role). I think it was more likely stage fright.

by Anonymousreply 16112/30/2020

I would guess that Margaret Sullavan would have read too old on screen for the role by the time the film of Turtle was made.

by Anonymousreply 16212/30/2020

Well, based on the trailer, r162, Eleanor is *very* ingenue*.

by Anonymousreply 16312/30/2020

I think they at least had a strong platonic connection.

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by Anonymousreply 16412/30/2020

Those last few years of the series, Viv actually looked better than an increasingly hard and bitter looking Lucy. She grew her hair out, which looked very flattering, and they got her a more contemporary wardrobe.

by Anonymousreply 16512/30/2020

[quote]"The Voice of the Turtle"

AKA "The Mitch McConnell Story."

by Anonymousreply 16612/30/2020

Marry me r166!

by Anonymousreply 16712/30/2020

Besides Charlie Appelby and Marian Strong, were any recurring characters played by more than one actor?

by Anonymousreply 16812/30/2020

Today's episode was...

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by Anonymousreply 16912/30/2020

[quote] Bill Frawley said that Viv's body was "like a sack of door knobs".

Frawley seemed like an ugly person, inside and out, on screen and off-screen. Who the fuck was he to be criticizing anybody's body shape.

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by Anonymousreply 17012/30/2020

Dorothy (Golden Girls) brought up Claude Akins as an object of desire. It was on my favorite episode (Journey to the Center of Attention, involving "singing" at the Rusty Anchor bar).

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by Anonymousreply 17112/30/2020

Wasn't Frawley closeted r170?

by Anonymousreply 17212/30/2020

I wonder if Viv associated Desi with her father.

I remember that she had a very contentious relationship with her mother, whom she claimed was abusive and a religious fanatic, while she adored her father. He was a serial philanderer who would take young Viv with him when he visited his mistresses. Perhaps that is why Viv took Desi's side in his arguments with Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 17312/31/2020

Here's a fun fact: Vivian and Louise Brooks were both from Cherryvale, Kansas. According to a bio I read of Brooks, Viv and her older sister Venus (below) were childhood friends of Louise.

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by Anonymousreply 17412/31/2020

I've been watching reruns and Lucy really started aging around seasons 6/7. But nothing compares to the hour-long shows, especially when she adopted that godawful hairstyle.

by Anonymousreply 17512/31/2020

Viv also grew up in the same town as playwright William Inge and they were both on the high school cheer leading squad..

Do we think he based Picnic's Madge on her?

by Anonymousreply 17612/31/2020

I'd forgotten about the Inge connection r176

by Anonymousreply 17712/31/2020

Hopefully not Rosemary, r176.

by Anonymousreply 17812/31/2020

[quote]Besides Charlie Appelby and Marian Strong, were any recurring characters played by more than one actor?

Little Ricky was played by different performers at different stages of his life.

by Anonymousreply 17912/31/2020

Were Ethel's parents divorced? She is "visiting her mother" during the Vitameatavegamin episode, but then only sees her father when they visit Albuquerque.

by Anonymousreply 18012/31/2020

Curiously she had relatives in NYC like Aunt Martha and Uncle Elmo, and the uncle who gave her and Lucy the freezer.

by Anonymousreply 18112/31/2020

I think originally Fred and Ethel were going to have a grown son.

Did they disown him?

by Anonymousreply 18212/31/2020

R180. Ethel's mom died. Uterine cancer.

by Anonymousreply 18312/31/2020

Did Aunt Martha live in NYC? I don't remember that.

by Anonymousreply 18412/31/2020

Viv was a lovely woman who had some severe mental health issues.

I love that we bring her up as much as we do.

Again a lovely woman.

by Anonymousreply 18512/31/2020

Yes, Aunt Martha presumably lived in the NYC area, since Ethel planned on renting the Ricardos' apartment to her. It was implied that Lucy and Ricky had met them previously.

by Anonymousreply 18612/31/2020

I agree, r185. I like that she visited the mentally ill later in life and just listened to them and spent time with them. She also wrote an article for McCall's in the mid-1950s about her struggles, which I think was very brave of her.

by Anonymousreply 18712/31/2020

Ethel had a complicated life.

by Anonymousreply 18812/31/2020

Oh is that you, Mrs. Turnbull?

by Anonymousreply 18912/31/2020


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by Anonymousreply 19012/31/2020

R172 Frawley was rumored to be into prostitutes and had a diaper fetish. He liked to have his ass powered and then spanked and diapered.

by Anonymousreply 19112/31/2020

[quote]Frawley was rumored to be into prostitutes

Male or female ... ?

by Anonymousreply 19212/31/2020

^ eunuch

by Anonymousreply 19312/31/2020

He did have himself trained to do anything in less than a minute.

by Anonymousreply 19412/31/2020

Frawley had bladder and bowel problems due to alcoholism. He had a nurse who attended to his needs in his dressing room.

by Anonymousreply 19512/31/2020

R194 I'm still shocked after all these years that that lime made it past the censors. I wonder if that line was a gift to Viv from writers, knowing how she felt about Frawley.

by Anonymousreply 19612/31/2020

I don't think I ever realized that Aunt Martha's name was uttered in any other episode besides the one about her famous salad dressing.

by Anonymousreply 19712/31/2020

r196, the thing about that brilliant line is it'd go over the head of anyone it'd offend.

by Anonymousreply 19812/31/2020

William Frawley & Vivian Vance (as Fred & Ethel Mertz) sing "Carolina in the Morning" at the Anti-Defamation League 40th Anniversary Dinner held at the Mayflower Hotel, Washington, D.C. 1953.

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by Anonymousreply 19912/31/2020

Vivian Vance bore the onus of being famous and adored around the world for playing a role she hated. It would drive any talented actress crazy.

by Anonymousreply 20012/31/2020

Can anyone even fathom how awful Bea Benaderet and especially Barbara Pepper would've been as Ethel? I don't want to even think of Gale Gordon as Fred.

by Anonymousreply 20112/31/2020

Yeah, that sucks....all that adored around the world shit.

by Anonymousreply 20212/31/2020

As others have noted without Desi the show would have been nothing. Lucy fought hard for Bea Benaderet and Gale Gordon and it was Desi that found better more suitable choices for both. Gale Gordon would have bellowed to the rafters constantly. William Frawley was from theatre and broke the fourth wall but he was more soft spoken, comparatively.

by Anonymousreply 20312/31/2020

r196 even the audience takes half a second to really start laughing

by Anonymousreply 20401/01/2021

In her (unpublished) memoirs, Viv wrote that Phil Ober liked to "dominate and discipline" her. Her words, and an interesting choice. I wonder if she was hinting at his sexual proclivities and not only that he was abusive.

Also, as late as the 1970s, many psychologists believed abused women suffered from a masochistic personality. I wonder if she internalized that ethos.

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by Anonymousreply 20501/01/2021

Think about this: Desi was one of the biggest TV stars of the 50s. Yes, he was. He and Lucy were a team on TV for 10 years. Yet his acting career essentially ended after I Love Lucy. If you see The Long, Long Trailer (a movie his character carried, not hers) you can see how talented he was. Similarly, Vivian had a basically nonexistent career after The Lucy Show ended, despite being popular and well loved. Frawley did My Three Sons, but really only Lucy had a big ongoing acting career.

by Anonymousreply 20601/01/2021

Desi gave up acting to produce after ILL. Viv quit The Lucy Show to marry and live on the east coast. Frawley was really up in age after ILL. He was lucky to get My Three Sons. Who would've guessed that Peggy Rea (Pauline/Dorothy depending on the episode) would go on to become a recognizable prime time face through the 80s?

by Anonymousreply 20701/01/2021

r206 Lucy should have retired far sooner than she did. Her slapstick schtick was tired and unfunny by the 1970s.

by Anonymousreply 20801/01/2021

I know Lucille Ball gets billed as the world's greatest comedienne, but I'd argue that most if not all of the magic was the ILL ensemble. Otherwise her other shows and even her movies would be more popular. Personally, I can't stand The Lucy Show and Here's Lucy. By that point it was all slapstick, I hated Gale Gordon, and the kids sucked.

by Anonymousreply 20901/01/2021

I've read that off-screen Vivian was the most naturally funny of the ILL ensemble. In various interviews from the 1970s, you can see her wit. Conversely, in interviews, Lucy is rarely funny.

I've never liked Gale Gordon nor found him funny.

by Anonymousreply 21001/01/2021

The slapstick became tired and I think her shows lost their way (even ILL to some degree) when they started to revolve around guest stars. When Lucy goes to Hollywood in ILL they weaved the stars in really well (William Holden, Eve Arden, Van Johnson, etc.) but later episodes just had famous people showing up at their front door. It played like a gimmick instead of being a believable by-product of the story.

by Anonymousreply 21101/01/2021

[quote] Lucy should have retired far sooner than she did. Her slapstick schtick was tired and unfunny by the 1970s.

It was her, it was the material. And she always played younger, but in her 60s it didn't work any more. The special, Lucy Calls The President (I think it was called) was actually funny, with her having a husband again (Ed McMahon) and featuring all the regulars, but in lower a middle class suburban setting, which worked really well. Vivien was in in despite having Bell's Palsy - Lucy and Viv were funny together. Mary Wickes and the inevitable Gale Gordon (not cast as a bombastic boss for a change) were good. It could have been a series.

Or Lucy could have done a Golden Girls type of show. Trying to recreate past models was a bad mistake, and Here's Lucy was often bad.

by Anonymousreply 21201/01/2021

*it wasn't her

by Anonymousreply 21301/01/2021

I was no gimmick!

by Anonymousreply 21401/01/2021

[quote]and Here's Lucy was often bad.

Hold my beer.

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by Anonymousreply 21501/01/2021

Can you just imagine if things went as planned and Bette Davis was able to do that Lucy/Desi Comedy hour?

by Anonymousreply 21601/01/2021

Viv's delivery here is great

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by Anonymousreply 21701/01/2021

I agree that part of the mistake was trying to continue the ILL legacy when it was long, long gone. Playing a character that whined and got into constant jams just wasn't funny any more when she was in her 60's.

by Anonymousreply 21801/01/2021

I'd say all three of the other ILL stars were funnier than Lucy in real life. She was not naturally funny - she really had to work on it and hone the script week after week to make it funny. That was one of the benefits of having Desi around where he ran everything behind-the-scenes and she could just work on the material. The quality of her delivery goes down drastically in later years once she's having to act and be in charge of production at the same time.

by Anonymousreply 21901/01/2021

There was something genuinely poignant about the 4 of them living in a middle class NY brownstone, shot in black & white, that allowed the comedy, as outrageous as it could be, to be grounded in a kind of harsh reality. The transition to the comfort of the Technicolor suburbs in the later Lucy shows didn't stand a chance.

by Anonymousreply 22001/01/2021

It was the simplicity that made it both funny and endearing. I'd take Lucy and Ethel making salad dressing in her apartment over Bob Hope mugging for the camera at Yankee Stadium any day.

by Anonymousreply 22101/01/2021

Lucy always admitted she wasn't a funny person, r219. It wasn't the scripts she was busy honing, it was the physical bits.

by Anonymousreply 22201/01/2021

ILL worked because of the chemistry of the four leads, but more importantly, there could be actual consequences. By removing Ricky and Fred all of the stakes were gone. And let's be honest, as much as we loved them, Fred and Ethel were total sponges.

In the Lucy show, the episodes that work were the ones where Lucy was broke and she and Viv had to do some kind of workaround to get what they wanted, but when it was all said and done why didn't Lucy have control over her own money. That part made no sense.

by Anonymousreply 22301/01/2021

[quote]There was something genuinely poignant about the 4 of them living in a middle class NY brownstone, shot in black & white, that allowed the comedy, as outrageous as it could be, to be grounded in a kind of harsh reality. The transition to the comfort of the Technicolor suburbs in the later Lucy shows didn't stand a chance.

There is something of a parallel with Laverne & Shirley moving from a small urban apartment in Milwaukee to a suburban locale in California (Burbank) Although obviously they were in color in both locations.

by Anonymousreply 22401/01/2021

That R2 photo is rather amazing, considering that Vivian and Frawley mortally despised each other. When she was told he had died Vivian Vance was said to say "CHAMPAGNE FOR EVERYONE!".

by Anonymousreply 22501/01/2021

Funniest thing I ever read about Vivian Vance was in a Lucille Ball biography I read many years back. One day on the set Lucille had been in a mood all day long & she and Desi had been arguing. They were ready to shoot a scene and Vivian had not come onto the set from her dressing room. When she arrived Lucille said "YOU'RE LATE". Vivian retorted "I'd tell you to go fuck yourself, but Desi already did".

by Anonymousreply 22601/01/2021

r225 sometimes I wonder if part of Viv's hatred of Frawley was wrapped up in feelings about her real marriage. Like, she couldn't risk hating Phil and instead transferred her anger to Bill as a surrogate.

I've seen this a lot with women in destructive and violent relationships. They have a seething anger at being mistreated and direct this anger at others in their orbit, rather than their partner.

by Anonymousreply 22701/01/2021

Other than his cantankerous demeanor she was said to be disgusted by the fact that the man they had play her husband was old enough to be her father. He was 22 years older than her.

by Anonymousreply 22801/01/2021

I imagine that's what hurt the most, r228.

by Anonymousreply 22901/01/2021

Frawley overheard Vance complaining about the age difference once and reportedly never forgave her. He was a major boozer. The network was against hiring him because of his drinking history. Desi had a clause put into his contract that stated the first screw-up would be tolerated, the second would result in a severe reprimand, and the third would result in his being fired & if he was late to work, arrived drunk, or was unable to perform because of something other than legitimate illness more than once, he would be written out of the show. He was a big NY Yankees fan and his contract also stipulated that he did not have to work during any World Series if the Yankees were playing.

Frawley and Vance were offered their own spinoff. Frawley accepted, even though he couldn't stand Vance, because of the money being offered. Vance declined because she had no desire to ever work with him again, and she felt the two characters would never be successful without Lucy & Desi.

by Anonymousreply 23001/01/2021

Bea Benederat might not have been bad. You can see from the earliest episodes, Vance had to grow into the role and the writers did start tailoring it to her. Pepper would have come with natural friendship with Lucy and that would have helped the show and she did come closer to the description of Ethel Mertz than Vance. Think of what would have happened if they cast Mary Wickes!

Lucy calls the President is indeed rather good even though they recycle every ILL joke. Gordon is bearable, which is a change.

by Anonymousreply 23101/01/2021

Was Gale Gordon really in demand in those days, or did Lucy just have a hard on for him and try to get him in every part? I know it's the type of characters he plays - loud, brash, bombastic - but his over-the-top delivery where he's screaming into the face of every character is too much. While Frawley was also gruff, he whispered in comparison to Gordon.

by Anonymousreply 23201/01/2021

When I was a kid, I didn't really notice the age discrepancy between Lucy and Viv. Or Viv and Bill, for that matter.

by Anonymousreply 23301/01/2021

What I loved about Vance as Ethel was you could tell she wasn't afraid of Lucille Ball. Lucy was the primary character for sure but the energy between them was of equals. I'm not familiar with Bea Benaderet's work, other than her guest appearance on ILL, but based on that, she might have played Ethel in a mousier more subservient type of way. I liked the fact that Vance's Ethel could hold her own and wasn't afraid to tell Lucy to go f herself in so many words.

by Anonymousreply 23401/01/2021

R234, Bea was more than a match for the ultra feisty Granny Clampett on Beverly Hillbillies.

There were only a few episodes where Ethel held her own against Lucy.

by Anonymousreply 23501/01/2021

I've been watching old episodes today. In the Lucy Writes a Novel episode, Lucy asks Ethel to describe herself. She replies,

"I'm deeper than most people think. On the surface I'm carefree and happy. But deep down inside I'm intense and moody. I'm sensitive. I feel things."

She basically describes Viv herself.

by Anonymousreply 23601/01/2021

Benaderet was great on Burns and Allen to balance out Gracie's borderline retarded role. I don't think her dynamic with Lucy would've worked. I don't know if it's common knowledge, but Benaderet's real-life son Jack Bannon was a regular on "Lou Grant" and played the evil character who kidnapped Val's babies on "Knots Landing."

by Anonymousreply 23701/01/2021

The day Lucille said goodbye to her dear friend Vivian for the last time.

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by Anonymousreply 23801/01/2021

A cute video of Lucy and Viv on The Dinah Shore show after not having seen each other for a few years.

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by Anonymousreply 23901/01/2021

Another appearance on Dinah Shore's show with Gale Gordon. She clearly was very fond of him.

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by Anonymousreply 24001/01/2021

Here is the article she wrote for McCalls. Edited, surely, but some passages speak not only to her compassion, but also her bravery:

[quote]I have never told this story before. I have not wished to. The reasons aren't difficult to understand. They have nothing to do with vanity, or endangering my career, or even the possibility of relapse should I open an old wound. There simply seemed no reason to tell the story. My case, I felt, was as special as a clinical history of beri-beri, as isolated from common problems as dengue fever, and therefore of no conceivable general interest, let alone therapeutic value or assistance.

[quote]But today I think I know differently. I have been informed by authorities whose opinions I not only respect but revere that there are millions like me - or millions, more properly, in the gray-night world from which I have been led. And if this is so, and it must be so, I know them and they are my friends. Not because we have met, but because of the sympathetic bond between us. I know that their hands perspire in strange, unidentified fears, that their stomachs contract in nausea if the boss fails to smile at them, that they walk alone in queer, numbing depression wherever they may be, and that always they are afraid.

[quote]But I know something else, something possibly that they do not. I know they can be healed, as I was healed. I know they can be taken from the shadows of what is only half-life and be restored to happiness. I know they can if they only will.

[quote]So, if you are afflicted as I was you can face it, by forcing a showdown, by meeting it eye to eye for what it is. But perhaps you, like myself, can not do it alone. And if, like Vivian Vance, you can't reach quite far enough to touch God's fingers, then why not reach for those fingers that are within your grasp? I cannot believe He would consider this sacrilege. Surely God must love His healers.

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by Anonymousreply 24101/01/2021

Am I only one triggered by her use of "queer" at r241?

by Anonymousreply 24201/01/2021

Yes r242

by Anonymousreply 24301/01/2021

Gale Gordon was great as the high school principal and major foil to school teacher Eve Arden on Our Miss Brooks. The series, unfortunately, doesn't hold up very well any more, but he's not particularly to blame. He starting hamming it up later in other TV appearances, unforgivably.

I think a lot of posters here are being unfair to Lucy. For my money, she was absolutely delightful in all of the seasons of ILL, at least until they all moved up to Westport, CT, when the scripts became lamer and repetitive. Her comedic talent can be seen in literally dozens of scenes where she's entirely on her own, without the support of her costars (Vitameatavegamin, Italian grape-stomping, William Holden in Hollywood, etc.). She was well-known for staying hours after rehearsal broke to work on and perfect all of her physical business.

I think the lack of respect for her comes from a true disgust with what she became in later series and films but shouldn't stain her initial brilliance.

by Anonymousreply 24401/01/2021

No denying that Lucy was the brilliant one. That's why it wasn't called "I Love Ethel."

by Anonymousreply 24501/01/2021

Look at me. I'm 60 and can still pull off playing an expectant mother, not to mention the mother of teens and pre-teens.

by Anonymousreply 24601/01/2021

Gale Gordon came across as so gay. But he was married to a woman. He ate pussy? Shocking to me.

by Anonymousreply 24701/01/2021

What the duck???? Hallmark isn’t showing I Love Lucy anymore??? Reba is taking Lucy’s timeslot. God damn!!!!! F you already, 2021!!!!

by Anonymousreply 24801/01/2021

Lucy already had chemistry with Benaderet and Gordon from her radio show. It was Desi who changed the dynamic---very different from Richard Denning.

Gordon had had a very successful radio career---he would have been in demand in the 50s.

The oft mentioned classic bits were pretty predictable and old fashioned by the time they were used on ILL---factory assembly lines, patent medicine that's really alcohol, etc. The Hollywood episodes were lame--shades of what she'd do later on with Liz, Dick, & Crawford.

by Anonymousreply 24901/01/2021

Although Frawley was a mean drunk, he read onscreen as someone soft underneath the surface. Gordon had a very strange talent for being unlikeable in any instance. His imperious demeanor worked when he played the judge in the Danny Thomas episode but he was not able to bring empathy.

by Anonymousreply 25001/01/2021

I love the Bill Holden, John Wayne x 2, Don Loper, Harpo Marx, Van Johnson and Lucy as the murdered showgirl on the stairs Hollywood episodes, just to name seven off the top of my head. There are undoubtedly a few more great ones.

Oh, and of course, the stop over in Albuquerque for Ethel Mae Potter Mertz's reunion is also in that "lame" season, r249.

by Anonymousreply 25101/01/2021

I agree. I think some of the LA episodes are quite good, among them the episode where Ricky forgets to buy train tickets back to NY for the Mertzes. Viv is outstanding in that one, and it's kinda funny to think that Ethel would think that Lucy was trying to fuck Fred.

by Anonymousreply 25201/01/2021

I love the LA episodes too. And it's funny to think that the Lucy character was always so star struck and trying to get in on the act, and here she was a bigger star than some of the celebrities they featured.

by Anonymousreply 25301/01/2021

r251=The lovely Mrs. Richard Carlson.

by Anonymousreply 25401/01/2021

In the Hollywood episode "In Palm Springs," Ethel is shown reading the May1955 issue of McCalls. It's the same issue that carried Viv's piece at r241.

That episode also contains one of my favorite bits of dialogue in the series:

Lucy: I miss Ricky!

Ethel, deadpan: I can top that, I miss Fred.

by Anonymousreply 25501/02/2021

The Hollywood episodes are hardly lame, r249.

by Anonymousreply 25601/02/2021

Coming for the New Year....

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by Anonymousreply 25701/02/2021

"Ethel to Tilly"

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by Anonymousreply 25801/02/2021

"The Black Eye" episode aged terribly. Fred and Ethel, in the hall, think Ricky is beating Lucy. And their response is, "We can't barge in at a time like this!"

And worse, the next day, Lucy makes up a ridiculous tale about how Ricky beat her, and Ethel's response is to get really excited by the story.

Ah, what?

Even for the 1950s, this episode is pushing it.

by Anonymousreply 25901/02/2021

A favorite episode of mine that isn't so well-remembered is the one where Lucy and Ethel are driving back to NY from Florida and pick up Elsa Lanchester and mistake her for escaped ax murderess Evelyn Holmby. The scene in the highway rest stop is one of the funniest they ever did.

"I'll have another HELP-ing!

by Anonymousreply 26001/02/2021

r260 I think the funniest episodes are in that vein: quasi-probable situations that they have to get out of. (Equal Rights is a good example.) The more far-fetched scenarios (the Bonus Bucks episode comes to mind off the top of my head) aren't as funny to me.

by Anonymousreply 26101/02/2021

Yeah I think that's why I like the LA celeb episodes but not the later ones. It's somewhat plausible that they could run into Bill Holden in a restaurant or Rock Hudson by a pool, and I'll even give slack and say that Ricky's biz connections would have gotten him and family into homes and other celeb hotspots to meet people.

But when they began the constant parade of famous people showing up on their doorstep, it all became very tired and no longer funny. The show became a vehicle for spotlighting those celebs no matter how stupid or farfetched.

by Anonymousreply 26201/02/2021

Celebs showing up on their doorstep? r262, are you referring to the hour long specials after ILL finished?

I think when I was much younger I loved the Lucy/Desi Comedy Hours because they seemed like a special event (even in reruns), but watching them now I see they weren't all that great except for the Tallulah Bankhead episode and also the "prequel" with Ann Sothern and Cesar Romero, about how Lucy and Ricky met. Both hours are truly exceptional.

by Anonymousreply 26301/02/2021

Does anyone know? Was the "prequel" with Ann Sothern and Cesar Romero shot while ILL was still in its initial run or was it produced after the last season of ILL?

by Anonymousreply 26401/02/2021

Definitely after. And it was ridiculous that they found a way to shoehorn Fred and Ethel into that episode.

by Anonymousreply 26501/02/2021

And Rudy Vallee!

by Anonymousreply 26601/02/2021

I'd never watched this before. It's fascinating to see Frawley and Vance interact outside of their roles as Fred and Ethel

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by Anonymousreply 26701/03/2021

One thing that's apparent from watching the old episodes is how thoroughly unlikeable Lucy Ricardo is as a character

by Anonymousreply 26801/03/2021

r267 I don't think anyone would have tuned in to see William Frawley in the shower.

by Anonymousreply 26901/03/2021

Not a chance Vivian Vance!

by Anonymousreply 27001/03/2021

Watching the series also shows that (with the exception of Bill, who looks the same to me the whole series) all their looks started going downhill around seasons 4/5. Desi showed clear signs of alcoholism, Lucy started to look haggard, and Viv gained weight (but got better styling).

by Anonymousreply 27101/03/2021

Are there any videos of Romero blowing Desi?

by Anonymousreply 27201/03/2021

By the 1960's Desi looked like he was a 100 years old. Saying that the man didn't age well is putting it mildly.

by Anonymousreply 27301/03/2021

No matter, r273

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by Anonymousreply 27401/04/2021

And now Mr. Loper, if you will....

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by Anonymousreply 27501/04/2021

Viv was the perfect foil to keep Lucy's hamminess in check. This is why the episodes that focus too much on slapstick annoy me, and why post-Viv Lucy (Gordon was not an adequate substitute) annoy me even more.

by Anonymousreply 27601/04/2021

Noon, Mrs. Ricardo.


by Anonymousreply 27701/04/2021

I still can't fully figure Viv's final marriage to a gay guy already in a LTR. Surely she knew from the outset. Was it a companionate marriage? Did she think she could convert him to heterosexualism? Was he just in it for the access to the good life? He made no efforts to cut off the LTR and after Viv died lived out his life with the guy.

by Anonymousreply 27801/04/2021

r275 My eyes! My eyes!

by Anonymousreply 27901/04/2021

Viv and her last husband

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by Anonymousreply 28001/05/2021

On right now...

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by Anonymousreply 28101/05/2021

I think Viv's last husband John Dodd was a highly respected book editor. Does anyone know? Would Viv have been making a lot of money in those years? I'm guessing not, except for her commercial work (which, I guess, could have been hefty come to think of it).

by Anonymousreply 28201/05/2021

I would have sucked off Desi and Hal March

by Anonymousreply 28301/05/2021
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by Anonymousreply 28401/06/2021

While Viv was reluctant to make a pilot for a spin-off of ILL called FRED & ETHEL, Desi did create a new show for her called GUESTWARD, HO! in which she played the proprietress of a dude ranch in New Mexico, based on a memoir that was co-authored by Patrick (Auntie Mame) Dennis. She played a character called Babs Hooten, married to the handsome Leif Erickson. But when it was shown to TV audiences in 1960, it was met with little enthusiasm.

Desi had to tell Viv that audiences felt betrayed and simply didn't want to see her in a new role. They loved Ethel Mertz. Eventually, the show was recast and reshot with Joann Dru and Mark Miller but only lasted one season and it was one of the last shows produced by Desi at Desilu..

by Anonymousreply 28501/06/2021

It had a catchy opening theme r285

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by Anonymousreply 28601/06/2021

You mean Mr. Frances Farmer, r285.

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by Anonymousreply 28701/06/2021

On right now...

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by Anonymousreply 28801/06/2021


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by Anonymousreply 28901/06/2021


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by Anonymousreply 29001/06/2021

So RE Viv and Bill's age difference: why couldn't they have had a May-December romance? Is that too far out of the realm of possibility?

by Anonymousreply 29101/06/2021

The age difference between Viv and Bill didn't disturb most viewers. It was Viv who objected, at least initially. And I can't blame her. 22 years is a big gap.

by Anonymousreply 29201/06/2021

On right now...

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by Anonymousreply 29301/07/2021


where are you watching? Anyone know why hallmark stopped showing ILL?

by Anonymousreply 29401/07/2021

It's on Decades from 10-11 am weekdays. 11-12 is MTM and 12-1 is DVD.

by Anonymousreply 29501/07/2021

I just watched the "Lucy Cries Wolf" episode.

What a revealing premise that exposes Lucy Ricardo as insecure (not in an endearing way) and highly manipulative. Generally, she is self-absorbed and not particularly nice to Ethel.

I wonder what so appealed to audiences about her character? Or were people just caught up in the humor?

I suppose comic characters are often unlikeable ...

by Anonymousreply 29601/08/2021

Reading r241 ... it's funny that she frames Phil as her "savior" when, at the time of its writing, he was (according to Lucy) the main source of her psychological distress.

by Anonymousreply 29701/08/2021

[quote]sometimes I wonder if they ever had a fling or at least a mutual attraction.

You need a hobby.

by Anonymousreply 29801/08/2021

You must be new here r298

by Anonymousreply 29901/08/2021

This episode is just ending. In trying to give Ricky an environment that will remind him of his Cuban boyhood, why is she lip syncing to Carmen and singing in Portuguese?

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by Anonymousreply 30001/08/2021

Now watching Season 1, Episode 3... The Diet

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by Anonymousreply 30101/08/2021

I can only watch on Amazon Prime/CBS All Access, and sadly, they don't offer all episodes

by Anonymousreply 30201/08/2021

From The Diet episode...

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by Anonymousreply 30301/08/2021

Thanks r303!

by Anonymousreply 30401/08/2021

One of my favorite clips:

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by Anonymousreply 30501/08/2021

Wasn't Season I, Epsisode 3 The Diet, actually the first episode they shot (after that weird pilot without Fred and Ethel and on a different apartment set)? But it was shown 3rd.

I think the musical number was "Cuban Pete" was part of a live act they took on the road in the years just prior to ILL.

by Anonymousreply 30601/08/2021

I love that she has to diet to fit into...a size 12.

by Anonymousreply 30701/08/2021

A size 12 in 1951 is probably the equivalent of a 4-6 today

by Anonymousreply 30801/08/2021

I've lost track as they've kept changing the sizing through the years, r308. I gave up when they came up with size 0.

by Anonymousreply 30901/08/2021

I love checking inflation calculators when I watch the show. It puts things into perspective. When they're in Florida, Lucy and Ethel spend around $70 each on clothes. About $680 in 2020.

by Anonymousreply 31001/08/2021

If I recall correctly, r310, the rent on Rhoda's apartment on the MTM Show was $86.00.

by Anonymousreply 31101/08/2021

Something else I picked up on: Viv started gaining weight almost immediately after she won the Emmy (shortly before the Hollywood episodes). Up until this point, she was almost as thin as Lucy. Around this time, the writers started throwing in jokes about Ethel's weight. I wonder if that bothered her.

by Anonymousreply 31201/08/2021

Every dress Lucy wanted to buy at Don Loper's was $600, even the "little black dress." How much would that be now?

by Anonymousreply 31301/08/2021

Nearly $6,000 r313

by Anonymousreply 31401/08/2021
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by Anonymousreply 31501/08/2021

Don't tell me, r313, that you don't have a Don Loper in your wardrobe???

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by Anonymousreply 31601/08/2021

Was Don Loper really a big "thing" in fashion back in the mid-1950s? I've never heard his name beyond this ILL episode.

Didn't MGM's Adrian have a couture shop in Beverly Hills at this time? I wonder if Lucy and Desi approached him first about appearing on the show?

by Anonymousreply 31701/08/2021

His Wiki...

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by Anonymousreply 31801/08/2021

If he was selling through Disneyland Hotel and appearing on ILL, he was probably past his luster in the mid-50s. His brand outlasted him--I remember Don Loper accessories for men being a mid-market department store-sold line in the late 70s/early 80s.

by Anonymousreply 31901/08/2021

More of his story...

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by Anonymousreply 32001/08/2021

Thanks for posting his Wiki, Mrs. Alan Ladd, but it has no real details about his career as a fashion designer.

I did note, though, that he was responsible for introducing Judy Garland to Vincente Minnelli. And Don's real name was Lincoln George Hardloper.

by Anonymousreply 32101/08/2021


For a serious Hollywood designer, there is a surprising dearth of information about Don Loper. A lot of people know he designed for I Love Lucy, and had a couture salon somewhere in Los Angeles, and also designed high end ready to wear. Some even know he was a professional dancer before a designer. And because I tend to get way too personal about these Meet a Designer posts, I will also note that he was something of an arrogant playboy. “God gave me lots of talent–I might as well use it.” And when speaking to a woman he felt was poorly dressed? “If she looks like a frump I say so,” he said. “I’m a real monster. I don’t always mean to be so horrible… but when I say it, it comes out that way.” He was king of the burn. “Honey, you must be kidding with that dress.” “What time does your broom arrive? You look like a witch.” Or my favorite, “I see your mother has been sewing again.” OUCH.

by Anonymousreply 32201/08/2021

Three marriages then none after 1938. Do we think was of the homosexual persuasion? Or did not have the ability to find the right girl and just gave up?

by Anonymousreply 32301/08/2021

Karl Lagerfeld was a talented cunt, this Don person, just a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 32401/08/2021

Lagerfeld never had a fashion show on I Love Lucy...

by Anonymousreply 32501/08/2021

Viv was a farter, Lucy said.

by Anonymousreply 32601/08/2021

Bill had the real flatulence problem.

by Anonymousreply 32701/09/2021

Watching right now:


This is the first episode that Ricky sings Babalu

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by Anonymousreply 32801/12/2021

[quote]This is the first episode that Ricky sings Babalu

And unfortunately, not the last

by Anonymousreply 32901/12/2021

To whoever posted the smoking post in the wrong thread: In the episode I'm watching, they only have one cigarette so Lucy breaks it and tosses half to Ricky saying "Here, you get Phillip and I get Morris".

by Anonymousreply 33001/13/2021

I'll bet Desi threw a mean fuck

by Anonymousreply 331Last Thursday at 7:06 AM

I watched The Matchmaker the other day. Lucy and Ethel are sitting on the couch and Lucy says, "Ricky and I will be a wonderful example of a young married couple, and you and Fred will be a wonderful example of an ... oh!"

Viv gets this look of disdain and says, "Yep."

It's such a throwaway moment, but something about her delivery is brilliant.

by Anonymousreply 332Last Thursday at 7:09 AM

............and it gave birth to 8 lbs. of cheese, Carolyn!

by Anonymousreply 333Last Thursday at 7:11 AM

Just finished watching this episode...

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by Anonymousreply 334Last Thursday at 8:29 AM
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by Anonymousreply 335Last Friday at 12:47 AM

This episode is just ending...

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by Anonymousreply 336Last Friday at 8:59 AM

Something else I've always speculated about the Lucy-Viv friendship:

I don't really think they were "best friends." I think their closeness was overstated by Lucy over the years. And I think Lucy probably felt closer to Viv than Viv ever felt to Lucy, because Viv had many sisters whom she remained close to throughout her life. I sense she kept Lucy in a more distant personal orbit.

I think Viv tolerated Lucy for many years and knew how to stand up to her bullying and demanding nature. Come to think of it, I'm not sure Lucy had many meaningful female friendships, period.

by Anonymousreply 337Last Saturday at 9:20 AM

Today on The Brady Bunch:


The Possible Dream

Desi Arnaz Jr. pops up as himself when Cindy mistakenly gives Marcia's diary to a junk-collection service, not knowing the journal is filled with missives about her sister's famous crush.

by Anonymousreply 338Last Sunday at 9:10 AM

I didn't realize that "Down with Love" (originally written for Kay Thompson) was introduced by Vivian Vance in Hooray for What.

I enjoy Blossom Dearie's cover:

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by Anonymousreply 339Yesterday at 12:18 AM

Is this Hooray for What?

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by Anonymousreply 340a day ago

That may be from Let's Face It r340

by Anonymousreply 341a day ago

This is...

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by Anonymousreply 342a day ago

I think you're right, r341.

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by Anonymousreply 343a day ago

On right now:

Ricky: Are you sure you're suffering from magnesia?

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by Anonymousreply 34420 hours ago

Now on:

A Tree Grows in Havana

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by Anonymousreply 34519 hours ago

^from the same episode...

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by Anonymousreply 34619 hours ago

^ Sorry...

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by Anonymousreply 34719 hours ago
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