What would you do? Termination at 17 weeks for our surrogate?

Get me....a knitting needle!!!!!

Heartbreaking...but terminate. You have 4 experts who want to bring lives into the world telling you to terminate, that's all you really need to know.

The whole child-production business stinks to high heaven, OP, and your whole post sounds like a narcissistic nightmare.

Plus, there's this:

"We don't know if we can deal with the issues."

I wouldn't trust you with a normal child, let alone a special-needs one.

R2 nailed it. Terminating it is the best call, as difficult as that is.

Get a blog.

Do you expect a bunch of gay men to already know what these syndromes are, OP? Why don't you fuck off to a mommy blog.

What a sad situation. You’ve mentioned people advising that you terminate. Is anyone advising you not to terminate, and if so, is there a logical reason that resonates with you and your husband? I don’t know if I would bring a child into the world if I knew his or her life was going to be unusually and profoundly more difficult than average and unless I was absolutely certain I had the resources and wherewithal to provide the needed additional support to the child, perhaps for the rest of my natural life. Good luck with your decision.

If for any reason you can't devote the extraordinary time, patience and strength necessary for raising a child with serious disabilities, you might be wise to terminate. If you do not have a VERY solid relationship with your partner, terminate. If you will not be able to, or cannot afford to have longterm in-home help, terminate. You will become emotionally and physically drained. We don't know your level of patience, your financial circumstances, how well you are able to deal with the sheer amount of time and work on your part that is going to be vital to caring for a special needs child. The fact that you have asked here on our forum what to do suggests to me that you may not have what it takes to raise someone from birth to well into adulthood. I know what I'd do, but this is up to you and your partner to figure out. The challenge doesn't suddenly end at age 18 or even 21 ... this is a life-long proposition.

Terminate, and try again.

I don’t think killing your husband for buying a crib is a good idea. You, on the other hand...

I’m with R3 on this one. There’s also something interesting about the staging or sequence of your comment and how you placed the comment about your husband having just told friends. I wonder would this decision be easier for you if that hadn’t happened yet (of course it would have been eh?)

It’s funny, you take part in a totally amoral system and are then surprised when it turns around and presents an ethical problem for you. Rich ppl problems I suppose. Maybe you can sue the surrogate and make her decide?

Terminate.

Listen to the advice of experts and tell your annoying friends the surrogate miscarried. And try again and get it right. Shit happens, good luck.

Agreed with everyone saying to terminate. Really sorry for you. It'll hopefully work out if you try again. And ignore the morons calling it a rich people's problem. They don't matter.

I don't have any advice for you, OP, as this is the most personal of decisions. I'm sorry you are faced with this decision, though.

Terminate, OP. I have friends with a child with Prader Willi and although they love their child they have each confided in me (separately) that they wished that they had terminated if they had known.

R3 completely nailed this. After all the effort, stress, money, self-congratulating, and all-around backpatting, you are going to be too exhausted, and too entitled to deal with anything less than the perfect prince/princess that you set out o give yourselves. I’m sorry for your troubles, and your loss and I will keep your surrogate’s safety and health in my thoughts, because she’s the only one risking anything of value here.

People with shitty genes shouldn't be procreating. You remind me of my partner's cousin who has eight kids, four of them autistic. Take the hint that you're not meant to have kids.

[quote]unless I was absolutely certain I had the resources and wherewithal to provide the needed additional support to the child, perhaps for the rest of my natural life.

Bluntly, fuck OP's natural life. What about the child's natural life? Who is supposed to care for this child (possibly adult) when OP and boyfriend die?

Well, that depends...did you buy the extended warranty?

[quote]you take part in a totally amoral system and are then surprised when it turns around and presents an ethical problem for you...Maybe you can sue the surrogate and make her decide?

I like how psychopath r11 makes it sound like HE'S the moral one.

OP, with respect, why are you asking a real question on Datalounge? This place is a pit and no one here knows anything. This is the forum where someone will ask for help with cancer and get 27 replies about how to vape yourself healthy, plus links to buy colloidal silver.

I have children (wanted, obviously), and went through this thought process before the amnio at 15 weeks. I've also worked with handicapped people in the past, and the choice was always clear to me: terminate, and try again.

I'm not a bad person, but I could not deal with the 24/7 needs of a seriously handicapped child; most people can't. It destroys lives, and it destroys partnerships (because one partner is usually less supportive than the other).

That's my advice.

R21 there’s no compare and contrast. Read over again. I think surrogacy is unethical. Didn’t make any comment about myself. But go off.

Should've adopted in the first place. Your inability to even deal with the possibility your kid could be less than perfect speaks volumes.

GTFOH gross posting this. Surrogate decides to abort or not. Creepy.

R3 out here preaching truth.

I am so, so sorry, OP.

As a woman who regrets not having had the opportunity to have children (because I only would have had kids if married and happily so)), I would have had to terminate under these conditions, due to the simple fact that I would have not been able to afford the care required if my husband and I had eventually divorced, which we did, without a pregnancy to consider.

For me, it’s about money. Now, had I been in your situation, and & independently wealthy? Perhaps I’d go through with it.

I agree with R2, however, this is a very personal decision, and whatever your husband choose, is between the two of you.

I knew a couple in LA who had a son with severe Down’s Syndrome. After 5 years, the situation destroyed their marriage. They were worth around 25 MM, so obviously, money isn’t always the major driver. It was a lot of work and raising the boy was.an all consuming job that left them with zero time for each other.

Adoption is always an option. Please consider that, because you can still be a mum.

Best of luck, with whatever you choose, dear lady.

Terminate, based almost solely on what the doctors say. I also will echo what R19 said — the child’s quality of life is already guaranteed to be low while he has a home and living and living parents. I shudder to think of the poor person’s middle and senior years, (if attained) alone and in who knows what living conditions. “Already bought a crib and told friends” is probably the most thoughtless and self-absorbed reason to continue the pregnancy.

*living and loving*

Terminate and don't try again. Adopt or foster but don't rent a womb.

This is a GAY forum. GAY, you frau cunts.

It hasn't occurred to R31 that gay couples can go the surrogate route.

Concur with R25. You creeps are talking over the head of a poor woman who is potentially going to be financially obligated to abort a disabled child. OP didn't even think to wonder how she might be taking all this, beyond "eh, she's fine with it, and she'll do what we say". It's her body and her emotional cost, no matter how much cash you forked over. Some people really are just soulless entitled reptilians. OP and his partner are unfit to raise a child, because of the way they're acting about this arrangement. I haven't been this disgusted by a DL OP in a long time.

[quote] I will keep your surrogate’s safety and health in my thoughts, because she’s the only one risking anything of value here.

You already know how I feel about it.

I would arrest you for sexual slavery and human trafficking, OP. Women's bodies aren't objects that you should be allowed to buy and babies are human beings.

R30 said this already but it’s worth repeating: terminate and never try again. R3 gave all the reasons why.

It isn't sexual slavery. OP is paying the woman based on a contract / agreement that they have. Holy fuck you people are stupid. You think OP lives in some Asian shithole? He isn't buying a human he's basically paying someone for services.

You guys actually are falling for this post?

You're not as sharp as you used to be!

Having a child with one of these syndromes means constant visits to the doctor and hospital (and I mean almost weekly).

Why put any child through that? Medicines and surgeries and therapy will be the child’s life.

Terminate and try again. Have a genetic map done to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Wait for a child that has the potential for a healthy life

Abort child and eat remains

What if the surrogate says she won’t abort it? THERE’s a story.

R33 Bullshit. Quit making people out to be victims. No one becomes a surrogate on a lark. They think long and hard about it, go through vigorous screening and legal contracts. It isn’t like OP picked up a woman at the bus stop and asked her to birth his baby.

And, part of the work of a surrogate is understanding that their are some cases in which you may be asked to terminate the pregnancy. This isnt a “her body, her choice” sort of situation. She signed that choice away -and that is fine. There IS such a thing as agency, you know. Not all women are victims.

And just why shouldn’t OP and many other gay men chose surrogacy. Adoption is fine, but why is it gay men’s job to fix heterosexual people’s problems and adopt their children? If OP is white and adopted a child, everyone would also have criticism. If he adopted a non-white child, he would be criticized for “stealing” the kid from his culture. If he adopted a white child he would be told that “he only wanted a white baby and was racist.

OP, don’t listen to these bitter people saying you are wrong for choosing surrogacy. Most of them are too poor to ever be able to consider it in the first place.

To answer your question however, I would also probably terminate.

0/10

OP? Get a coat hanger.

R38 got up earlier than me and beat me to it.

DL’s failing if this wasn’t called as the bullshit EST it is a while ago. Like at the second response.

R45 We know it’s probably a EST but so what? Still makes for good conversation, debate and occasional abortion joke fodder.

Even if you don’t terminate now, there are always ways to solve your little “issue” in the future.

Try adoption, if your don't wanna go that way and "miss the pregnancy", which make no sense for men in my opinion, then switch the sperm donor, who I assume is one of you.

I agree, if this is a EST, the mother refusing to abort would be more interesting

Most people that have a disabled child break up. In straight couples, the man leaves and dumps the woman with a life sentence of servitude to endure alone, while the man moves on, maybe to have a healthy family with somebody new. I’m not making it up, look it up. The vast majority of marriages end over this.

It’s insane to put yourself into a situation where you obviously don’t understand, your life will be ruined until the day you die. Then the child will live in an institution until they die. Nobody wants these kids. Nobody else is ever going to care about them. No family members are going to throw their lives away to support the burden you made. You’re not only ruining your own lives, you’re ruining the child’s life as well.

Who in the hell do you think is going to visit this child in the institution after you’re gone? No one. Who’s going to make sure they’re not being mistreated or neglected? No one. A coworker found out his mom in a nursing home was being tied down, and was crawling with ants because his siblings wouldn’t check in her. He had to fly thousands of miles away to help her, while all the sibs lived in the same town with her. They just abandoned her. It’s very common that only one person cares about the sick person and the rest won’t do anything. So what do you think will happen to that kid when you die and there’s nobody to check on them? Anything the nursing home employees want to do.

You cannot ask some other family member to do it, they didn’t make this mess. It is your burden alone. But you can’t live forever. Don’t you dare create another child to be sentenced to serve this one for life. They’ll have no legal obligation to do so, and all you’ll accomplish is dumping guilt on them and maybe sentence them to a life of endless slavery and financial obligation. No one is going to have a relationship with a person whose whole life is serving a disabled person. I know. When my mother was old and sick, and needed constant care, I had no life. I didn’t date. My whole life was caring for her and I had no social life at all. Then she died and I had zero social skills. That’s what going to happen to the second child you make to care for this one.

I sure hope this is an est. If it’s not, then don’t be an idiot and lose every single thing you’ve worked for your entire life. Nobody is giving you a brownie button for throwing your life away. Making difficult decisions is part of being an adult. If you’ve got religious family members, tell them there was a miscarriage. This is not something you do for Instagram likes.

A documentary about Prader Willie Syndrome. Abort or this is your future:

Lots of triggered frauen on this thread. I get that it’s a touchy subject, but that’s led to some of the most moronic projections I’ve seen here in a long time. (No, surrogates aren’t sex slaves, FFS.)

Despite the number of people chastising OP for considering a termination, I haven’t seen one poster offering to support OP or his family follow through with keeping the child in any way...medical bills, child care, special educational needs, etc. It’s as if you’re saying, “I heard you say that you may not be ready, able, or willing to be for this child what he needs (and *I’m* certainly not going to help contribute to this child having any quality of life myself, obvi); but, you really don’t deserve to live, OP, because you’ve considered not bringing into this world a child destined for far more suffering and hardship than most.”

It’s a difficult enough decision without the feigned moral outrage from people for whom feigned moral outrage is all they have to offer to this family.

.....

You are lucky to have found this information out this early in the pregnancy. Terminate it now. Abortion at 17 or 18 weeks is safe and not complicated. You should consider adoption in the future.

Prader-Willi is amazing. Do it!

R51, as someone who actually cared for a disabled parent for years, I can tell you, nobody thinks you’re a hero for doing it. Everyone thinks you’re an asshole and should shove the person in an institution and forget about them. They think you’re being immature and irresponsible to look after somebody else if it’s affecting your own life. Nobody thinks you’re a selfless saint. They think you’re a fucking moron.

There are a lot of random strangers who will tell you to do, but anyone who’s actually a family member? They won’t help you, they won’t share the burden. It’s your problem, not anybody else’s. A situation like this is like a black hole of work and nobody else wants to be sucked in. Your friends won’t want to see this kid and they’ll ghost you. Your family also won’t want to feel guilty, so they’ll make up justifications in their mind for why they have no obligation. And legally, nobody does except for the parents. Nobody can be forced to care for this kid after you’re gone.

The only people who will praise you for putting your life on hold will be religious strangers who aren’t involved. People who actually know you will think it was just reckless and irresponsible. Even the old family members. Anybody who does this for ego is going to be really disappointed. Nobody is going to praise you or help you. People only do that on TV. In the real world, it’s every man for themselves.

OP, very sorry to hear of this devastating turn of events. Colin Farrell has a son with Angelman's, and I believe has done enormous amounts of charity work on behalf of organisations that deal with it. You might want to look up his Wikipedia page where he speaks about the experience. I believe the boy is about 20 now, but Farrell gives some indication of the difficulties as well as some of the reward. He loves his son, that is clear, but he hasn't downplayed the hardships.

You may also need to think about what the consequences for siblings might be. I have to say, if it were my decision, I would terminate.

Best wishes as you weigh this very difficult decision.

Isn’t Prader Willi called “Happy Puppet” because that’s what they look like?

Kill the surrogate, rip out the retarded baby, throw in lake

Scrape 'er out and try again with another surrogate, as this one clearly produces defective goods. Hold out for the best quality baby you can get. It's what you're paying for.

Terminate and make another one. Nobody wants to take care of a defective baby.

Abort! Abort! Abort!

R42/R51 you're assuming most female surrogates don't have enormous financial stressors in their own lives that essentially make an offer to surrogate one that they can't afford turn down, regardless of personal moral compass. Some of these surrogates have kids of their own already, mouths they can barely feed. Others have deadbeat husbands and partners, expensive medical bills, college loan debts, or addiction habits they can't control (and no, not drug/alcohol dependency, I know they screen surrogates for that). I bet if someone did a socioeconomic survey of surrogates, they'd find very few financially-secure and well-educated middle-class/upper-middle class women without external pressures choosing to do it just because they like being pregnant. Yes, there are a small number of women who do live for the floods of happy hormones and the attention being preggers brings, but rest assured they aren't the majority.

I feel like many of you skipped health classes, or don't understand the implications of pregnancy. It's immensely painful, it changes your body forever, so much could go wrong to wreck your health or that of the baby even without genetic defects. But "women do it everyday and have done for millions of years", so it's totally fine, right? People die in horrific ways every day and have done for millions of years, too - does that make it any less agonising, life altering, and scary?

Some posters in this thread are just the type of people who say that all women act in porn because they love sex and they're free spirits. Way to ignore the systemic hardships that force women into sexual and reproductive exploitation (and I didn't specifically say slavery, btw, you did), because it makes men feel less icky about getting what they want from women physically then discarding them (sound familiar? Yep, that's what those evil heteros do!).

I will bite— Angelman is a lifetime trip to multiple doctors, bad epilepsy, intellectual disability and behavioral issues. Prader Willi can be treated now with oxytocin early and they dont get as fat as they used to be but still a lot of doctor visits for behavioral issues and endocrinologist follow ups. Next time, dont announce early until youve got the genetic testing in the bag.

R62 No one is saying that people get into surrogacy for the fun of it. But, they still make the choice to do the work, as opposed to flipping burgers at McDonalds.

R62 Some of that is probably true, but what does that have to do with OP’s decision? His surrogate is already pregnant.

I assume surrogates for IVF are advised of the risks and sign informed consent decrees and various other legal documents, which I assume specify how situations like this will be resolved. If the pregnancy becomes complicate and, for example, threatens the life of the surrogate, I’m sure they don’t just wait until that happens before spelling out how the situation will be handled. I’m sure all parties must agree to these terms before the procedures take place.

I don’t think anyone’s saying that being a surrogate is a walk in the park, but surrogates are making the decision to let a medical doctor implant an embryo into them.

R62 Some of that is probably true, but what does that have to do with OP’s decision? His surrogate is already pregnant.

I assume surrogates for IVF are advised of the risks and sign informed consent decrees and various other legal documents, which I assume specify how situations like this will be resolved. If the pregnancy becomes complicate and, for example, threatens the life of the surrogate, I’m sure they don’t just wait until that happens before spelling out how the situation will be handled. I’m sure all parties must agree to these terms before the procedures take place.

I don’t think anyone’s saying that being a surrogate is a walk in the park, but surrogates are making the decision to let a medical doctor implant an embryo into them.

As the mother of a bed bound 30 year old child... Terminate. I would not ave had this child if there had been a way to know ahead of time.

The physical toll will be beyond anything you can dream of.

The emotional toll will leave you dying inside a little more every day.

Katie Price's son Harvey has this condition. She's talked numerous times how he eats nonstop (she has to put locks on the refrigerator), he gets violent and smashes shit, and fears for own life and that of her other children, and says "hello you cunt" on live TV.

Don't get pregnant in the first place. Adopt if you want to be a Nanny to a bunch of brats.

Live your damn life: have fun, live, love, learn... then die.

My cousin’s son has Prader Willie. They had to put locks on the pantry and refrigerator when he was younger. They ended up having to send him to a group home after they had a second child. He was violent and aggressive with the baby, and they feared that he would kill it. I would not want to bring a violent person into this world or my home.

R65 Read the entire thread. This is part of an ongoing discussion with some keyboard warrior “queers” who are too poor to even afford a surrogate trying to guilt gay men that surrogacy is wrong.

Seriously OP? This is how much of an entitled bitch straight women can be on here. Talk to your doctor about this.

[quote] This is a (obvs) wanted, IVF child (a boy!)

Ugh. You sound like a weirdo and not parent material.

You should have adopted, you stupid fuck.

[quote] if faced with a choice between Praders-Willi or Angelmans Syndrome?

I’d go with Angelmans. Pinheads are always in demand, while nobody likes a fat baby.

There's no reason to stay together if they don't have a kid. It would be, "Well, this has run it's course. I'm bored".

[quote]Shit happens,

R13 That comment made me cry. This isn't shit, it's a baby and a huge decision.

What does EST mean?

R78 It's not our job to educate you.

Not unusual, OP. I had a termination at 332 weeks.

R71 surrogacy is wrong. Nobody can look at surrogacy and say it’s above board. Ethical implications at every turn. As mentioned upthread, what happens if OP decides to terminate but surrogate refuses to abort? Do you tie her down and do it without her consent? Is she allowed to make these determinations? Your “poors are jealous” angle says to me that you probably can’t understand any kind of situation like this without a housewives or teenage kinda spin to it so you probably can’t even engage this discussion meaningfully.

Listen to science.

Terminate yourself, OP.

OP, keep the baby. You may have Munchausen syndrome by proxy, in which case the child and all of its care requirements will be ideal.

Sincere condolences, OP. That said, abort. For those shrieking about ethics and surrogacy, let's set that aside for a moment and contemplate the situation if one of you were the mother, part of a couple and faced with the same decision: I think anyone with knowledge and/or experience dealing with severe handicaps would advise you to terminate. As many here have pointed out, you're setting yourself, your husband, and this child up for lifetimes of difficulty, financial and emotional hardship, and medical issues you cannot begin to comprehend. Listen to the people who [italic]know[/italic] how this decision will impact you and the child.

R83=barren frau cunt.

R81=frau cunt

[quote]you probably can’t understand any kind of situation like this without a housewives or teenage kinda spin to it so you probably can’t even engage this discussion meaningfully.

Wow, R81, you are so monumentally deluded.

Flush that turkey and use the money to go on vacation once the world opens back up. Children are a dead end and the world is populated enough.

Terminate. My cousin has Prader-Willi and lives in a group home. He’s cognitively impaired and is ginormous. There are some funny stories about the lengths he has gone to, in his pursuit of food.

I don’t know what that other syndrome is.

You guys have fucked-up genes. Get a dog instead.

[quote] We don't know if we can deal with the issues.

Do you know if your son could deal with "the issues"?

Terminate, OP. Having a disabled child puts a huge strain on a marriage, and usually what happens is one partner ends up spending their life stuck as caregiver for the kid, while the other waltzes off and has a new family with the next spouse. If the absent spouse takes any interest in their disabled child, they'll try to show their love by constantly criticizing the caregiver ex for not doing enough.

Terminate and adopt

With a heavy heart, I would terminate.

OP, this is Datalounge. Prader-Willi causes the child to overeat to severe obesity. Everyone here is going to tell you to terminate.

A family friend has a child with Praders Willi. It's been hell on earth and it's strained her marriage. She's filing for divorce. Sad situation all around.

If you're going the economic route, I'm sure a plunger and bucket would work in a pinch.

Everybody comes to the Datalounge to discuss their pregnancy termination options. It's kinda played out, OP.

A friend has a daughter wiith Prader-Willi syndrome, she's around five now. I'm not sure if they knew her diagnosis during the pregnancy, I suspect not, he announced the news some weeks after her birth. I was looking through old social media posts out of curiosity and came across this quote he posted from Dr Hans Zellweger , a famous paediatrician:

"I have had a major interest in Prader-Willi syndrome (PWS) for over 30 years and, having dealt with many patients, have reached the conclusion that PWS is one of the two most grave ailments I have encountered – the other being Huntington's Disease ... PWS is an equally devastating birth defect that characteristically presents major problems from birth. The enormous difficulties associated with the first phase of PWS cause frustration and guilt in mothers who perceive themselves as inept at feeding and nurturing their affected child. This guilt intensifies during the second phase, as PWS children constantly appear plagued by a relentless hunger that dominates their lives. The presence of this insatiable urge to eat, which is beyond the control of the patient, his family, or physician, becomes the primary focus for the child and inhibits all other activities and interests. In addition to the issue of satiety, a PWS child faces a life of sexual incompetence. Reactions to these problems are further aggravated by hypothalamic dysregulation, which seems to affect temperament. It is not surprising, therefore, that emotional incontinence increases in severity and frequency as the PWS child grows older. Parents, usually unable to manage diets, food-seeking activities, and bizarre behaviour, become distraught and emotionally drained. Family systems deteriorate and life becomes hell for all concerned. In my experience, parents of PWS children come to the physician's office in great distress and total despair more often than parents of children with any other birth defect. They speak of their helplessness, the sacrifices of other family members, their love for their affected child, and their concerns about the future. One common theme is the reluctance of many parents to consider alternative living arrangements. This may reflect attempts at denial that a problem exists with which they cannot cope. Fortunately, effective management, even for the most severe cases, is a realistic possibility, particularly after parents are finally able to accept the fact that the family home is not the best place for the affected adolescent or adult."

The quote is from 1988, and treatment options have progressed since then, according to my friend, but there is no treatment for the hyperphagia (the extreme hunger).

Assuming this is not an EST and is all true in every respect, I won't give you any definitive advice but will wish you the best of luck as you make your decision.

[quote]R42 No one becomes a surrogate on a lark. They think long and hard about it, go through vigorous screening and legal contracts. It isn’t like OP picked up a woman at the bus stop and asked her to birth his baby.

The killer mom Diane Downs was a surrogate, and even opened her own surrogacy agency.

One might do better with the lady from a bus stop.

R85 nobody’s shrieking. Your false equivalence ignores the existence of the surrogate in this “think of it as such” and so the comparison is redundant, and reinforces how little the surrogate matters in these instances to the surrogacy advocates. FWIW they should terminate I agree (as long as the surrogate consents) and learn something from this experience and google “adoption service near me” they can be parents that way.

Abortion would have been discussed with the surrogate at the time the initial contract was made. That's pretty standard.

I'm always concerned about people who say 'there's always adoption'. No, there isn't. Very few foreign countries allow international adoption anymore and some of those that do have some very difficult preconditions. Adopting from social services agencies in the US also can be very difficult, and expensive, to get a child who has been horribly traumatized or has multiple disablilities. Yes expensive depending on the status of the child and the court proceedings needed. I have nothing but respect for those who go this route. And a healthy newborn? You will be competing with wealthy straight couples for the child.

And I'm firmly in favor of aborting this pregnancy. Those are horrible conditions. No human should be put through that.

As the father of two kids that were born via surrogacy, I suggest you terminate the pregnancy, OP. Raising healthy kids is hard enough. I can't IMAGINE how hard it would be to raise a kid with a disability. The whole situation is unfair all around: unfair to the kid, unfair to you and your husband, unfair to the surrogate. But the reason they monitor surrogacy pregnancies to carefully is exactly because of the possibility of a situation like this. It will be hard - but better in the long run for everyone involved. Don't listen to the cunts on this thread that say surrogacy is evil, etc.

R104 presuming when you say “whole situation” you mean surrogacy in general right? ;) also don’t forget your nannies, is it not unfair to them too?

R103 adoption is tricky sure but that doesn’t mean you should engage in some sort of human agriculture program to source a child. It’s not a human right to have a child.

OP and his ilk basically support eugenics. Okay, not “basically”...

I forgot about that, R100. I do remember the Baby M case from the mid-80s. The surrogate mother was artificially inseminated, so she was the biological mother of the child. She was also paid $10,000 to be a surrogate, but she changed her mind and kidnapped the baby from the couple who had paid her. The courts didn't terminate her rights, and she was awarded visitation, while the couple was awarded primary custody. When the baby reached legal age, she went to court to terminate the surrogate's (bio mother's) parental rights, and then finalized an adoption with the mom who raised her.

The newer surrogacy method involves two women: one who donates the egg, and then the surrogate, who incubates the fertilized egg for 9 months. Thus, the surrogate mother isn't a biological parent of the child and cannot claim parental rights.

R103 I don’t know why people always say it’s hard to adopt a child. I know people who have raised foster babies and adopted them because the kids had no family. There were absolutely no issues. Unless you’re just looking for a blonde hair blue-eyed whitey.

R109 and if they adopted a black child you would get mad and say that they are denying the child their culture.

Sorry you are too poor to afford a surrogate.

R110 girl get it together. FWIW a lot of gay men are happy sans child and don’t need to organize their lives around mimicking those of their heterosexual neighbours. Sorry you’re so unhappy with yourself that you need a child to feel better.

IGNORE any asshole here who bashes surrogacy.

IGNORE any asshole here who criticizes you or your partner.

And also terminate the pregnancy.

Have the child and start a blog and Youtube channel. Monetize that little misfit. Dress it in those hideous, I mean cute little dog clothes that the frauen love.

Make videos showing the beautiful love you have for the child and say shit like "2020 was such a horrible year but God opened a door for our most wonderful miracle." Make that bank OP, realize your dreams.

[quote][R85] nobody’s shrieking.

You have obviously not read the thread.

[quote]Your false equivalence ignores the existence of the surrogate in this “think of it as such” and so the comparison is redundant,

Word salad, R100. Your denial of the shrieking over surrogacy makes sense; you have no reading comprehension. This is one of the facts of a text-based board that always confounds me, when someone clearly misses the point despite it being literally spelled out in front of them. To wit, the ethical implications of surrogacy have little to do with OP's heartbreaking dilemma. OP acknowledges his added complication, setting off a quasi-religious argument occupying half of the replies over what is, at best, peripheral to the matter at hand.

What is done is done, and now OP must face a decision that will impact his family for the rest of their lives. To be blunt, the surrogate's decision was made 17 weeks prior. We can discuss the moral and ethical implications of surrogacy until the cows come home, but thankfully for OP, that is not and should not be part of the calculus.

EST = Elaborate Scenario Troll r78 if I remember correctly.

I used to work in education, and if I hadn't already been opposed to having kids of my own, that would have sealed the deal. Granted, I worked in a middle school, and kids are not their lovable best in the throes of puberty.

We had a boy with Angelmans come through our school as well as a girl with Prader-Willi. Pretty disturbing and sad in both cases. The boy was wheelchair-bound, could not speak, and his favorite pastime was spitting on aides. I believe this habit arose out of neglect at home. The girl was indeed ravenous all of the time (God, how miserable must that be?), and was also very challenging behaviorally, lashing out physically at her caregivers. Honestly, if I was hungry all of the time, no matter how much I ate, I might be a little crabby, too.

I don't know that I could have handled parenting either of those kids, OP, and I wouldn't want to burden a human being with either of these disorders. Only you can decide what to do, but, as others have said, it doesn't sound like you are cut out for this.

Wow a lot of cruel people on this thread

No, the cruel people are those who are considering aborting a pregnancy because the baby they supposedly wanted will be less-than-perfect.

Abort abort abort immediately

Not a EST. Thank you for your comments, kind and unkind. We know termination is best. It doesn't make it hurt less. We found out the condition the day before Christmas, after learning it was a healthy boy the previous week. The deep dive into the chromosomes led to the diagnosis. We had told ourselves what we would do if the testing showed something like this but it is still a devastating choice.

R114 you’re right - I forgot your shrieking. The thread involves surrogacy, people are discussing surrogacy, you want to steer the conversation away from it so it must mean something to you, idk what or why but your personal situation doesn’t have a bearing soreeeee. And yes your comparison made no sense.

A question for someone who's read through the entire thread: Has one single person advocated keeping the genetically defective fetus?

To the pro-surrogacy trolls - please don't think that people who are disturbed or repulsed by surrogacy are anti-gay, or that their primary targets are gays who want children. Because plenty of rich bastards use surrogates, and not just because of infertility. Some straight rich fuckers will use surrogates just so the wife won't have go through the inconveniences of pregnancy, and of getting her pre-baby body back. They'd rather throw some pocket change and DNA at some poor woman who needs the money badly enough to stifle all her natural instincts.

Yes, I find surrogacy disturbing, because it's become just another way for the rich to dehumanize the poor.

Oh please, nobody is being dehumanized. Stop The woke BS.

This TV movie of the week from 1982 starring Vanessa Redgrave and DL unfave SJP in an early role deals with a kinda similar subject matter.

Op I posted before. My heart breaks for you. The right thing is always hard.

If it helps any watching my child's life slip away alone in a bed is hard too. There is no good choice in this situation.

You and all concerned will be in my good thoughts.

Any updates OP?

OP and his husband are just returning from a well-deserved vacation in PV to ring in the New Year.... they’ll get back to posting here as soon as they finish unpacking

Op sorry to hear it; my spouse and I have dropped many many thousands over the past two years to have a child and the procedures didn’t work out. It is far more painful emotionally than anyone can expect and no one really understand it unless they’ve gone through the grief of situations like these.

One of the IVF cycles resulted in a “pregnancy” but the HCG levels weren’t increasing fast enough, which meant that it was either going to be ectopic or miscarried later, so we stopped the hormones that were keeping it growing and then it stopped. Hard decision, but it had to be done. We have had to grieve the failures.

Hope you and your partner are doing okay.