Just watched MIDNIGHT COWBOY for the first time last night

One of my favorite films. I recently bought the Criterion edition but haven’t cracked it open. I may now.

Voight was so delicious in this. Pity that he’s become such a brainwashed, conspiracy theory-touting Trumpophyle.

Really good movie!

The part where they are crossing the street and he bangs on the taxi, " hey, we're walking here..." That part was improvised.

Truly a masterpiece. I think Hoffman’s role especially is probably the greatest to NOT win an Oscar. I really don’t think John Wayne deserved to be an Oscar winner. Practically all of his characters were the same just different names. But he had a lot of goodwill and was an industry veteran. I’m glad Voight (Trump lunatic aside), and Hoffman won eventually. It was pretty ballsy of the Academy to vote it best pic, considering how gritty it was.

“I just want to ask you one thing, cowboy. If you're sitting here, and he's sitting all the way over there, then how's he gonna get his hand into your pocket? Oh but I’m sure you’ve got that all figured out, don’t you Ratzo?”

I watched it for the first time in 20 years, about 5 years ago. I still loved it, but there was something about Jon Voight that was very deja vu. Of course I had seen the movie, but his mannerisms were very familiar, especially facial, but in a different way. The shape around his eyes, the way he moved his lips. It was really bugging me!

Then I realized: Angelina! I was looking at the same face. She hadn't yet existed the last time I had seen the movie. There is no doubt she is her father's daughter. I hadn't even noticed any resemblance between them until that moment.

Given how homophobic the movie is, I'm surprised DL is not tearing it to shreds.

Oh yes, Angie has those full lips for sure.

Wasn’t the author of the novel it was based on a gay man? Not everything is homophobic, just a product of its time and the imagination of the writer. People said and did those things back then, and still do.

Yes, the novelist James Leo Herlihy was gay. And so was John Schlesinger, who directed.

I saw it last night. Very moving. Voight, very cute, was very brave to do this back then. Hoffman too, but I kept thinking he looks like the young Al Pacino. When the guy died in the end made me cry.

Meh.

Not a film I ever cared to watch a second time but it had some fine music

This thread really makes me want to watch the film again. I remember taking a bus into NYC from NJ to see it in 1969 with my fag hag GF when I was in high school. I didn't realize I was gay back then but strongly related to the young Bob Balaban character.

Like you FINALLY sat down & watched Death Becomes Her?

No Batman or Superhero, just can't deal

Scarf meet doorknob, we pray

i saw it the summer i turned 11, 1971, with my mom and dad. The MPAA had recently changed its X rating to R. What i remember most was that the lines from Everybody's Talkin' that go "I"m going where the sun keeps shining through the pouring rain/going where the weather suits my clothes" are really a reference to Florida, not New York.

Never cared for this film.

One of my all time favourite films. I saw it for the first time on TV when I was about 13. It had a profound effect on me. Possibly my first introduction to gay themes, and-for the time-it was fairly sympathetic. Of course it can be read very differently now with modern sensibility. Too bad about Voight. What the hell happened to that guy?

The book is also amazing. I read it years later and, if anything, it’s a richer experience than the movie. Possibly the most profoundly sad depiction of loneliness I’ve ever read.

I remember being outraged when that movie theater john didn't have any money. At least Joe manged to get his shitty watch I think.

One of the most haunting movie soundtracks of all time. And hauntingly beautiful.

This is a great film but the Warhol-like party bit in the middle is a bit dated. Still amazing, more than an artefact of its time.

R19 no he didn't take the watch.

R19 That john was DL fave Bob Balaban!

Have watched it several times. I think in many ways it has NOT aged well, especially the luridity with which it depicts homosexuality (amazing that John Schlesinger, who was gay, could direct a movie like this and then a couple of years later do Sunday Bloody Sunday which treats gayness with remarkable subtlety and normalcy). All of the men who prey on Jon Voight's character are so repulsive and depraved, even insane. It's a bit much. As are the psycho-sexual Freudian flashbacks and the druggie party. On the other hand, the photography, the music, the performances, the vibe....there is that indefinable something "classic" about it. The Criterion blu is gorgeous.

24 posts and nothing about The Legend That is Sylvia Miles?!

Or ME?!?

As a woman I can’t watch this film because the idea of old women buying young male whores on 42nd Street is entirely ridiculous.

R27 they thought it ridiculous also and either didn't pick him up or didn't pay him.

The book is really good too

R27 You should watch the movie, then, because there isn't one scene in it in which an old woman buys a young male whore on 42nd Street.

My favorite part is when Sylvia Miles (who seemed old, but wasn't that old) realizes that he expects her to pay and she scolds him about what a hot chick she is. (She wasn't.) And then asks him for money.

There is definitely an Erna vibe in Sylvia Miles.

R24

Times Square area back then was just that; seedy and depraved. Higher end clients and prostitutes (male and female) worked better strolls or maybe did in call/escort service.

Joe Buck could have tried his luck down at 53rd street/Third avenue area stroll, but he would have looked out of place.

R27 The whole point of Joe Buck’s trajectory is that he thinks he’s this big, straight stud who’s going to have women clamouring to pay him only to find that if he wants to stay in business he had better join the male/male trade. Kind of like every male “prostitute” since the beginning of time. And every Gay4Payer you’ve ever heard of. Of course, swirling underneath it all, is the confused sexuality of those unable to accept themselves for what they are. The old internalized homophobia trip. And in 1969 society’s homophobia was rife as well, so that certainly didn’t help.

He’s also desperately alone and hungers for human contact. Any contact. That’s what makes his later friendship with Ratso Rizzo so pathetic-and touching. Two of society’s castaways find each other for a brief moment in time.

The Sylvia Miles character is an aging kept woman who is flattered by his attention, takes him home for a quick screw, but when Joe brings up payment she throws a temper tantrum, bursts into tears, and he ends up paying HER. Their signals are out of whack right from the beginning. The rich and attractive socialite played by Brenda Vaccaro finds out about his chosen “profession” at a party, and considers it amusing. Clearly it’s a one-off lark for her to pay him. And he is initially unable to perform. Both of the scenes with the women are oddly plausible, if a bit garish. Joe Buck doesn’t have a single successful sexual encounter in the entire movie really. It’s about alienation at it’s core.

You clearly haven’t seen the movie. You should check it out if for no other reason because of it’s importance to queer cinema.

R23 B.B. = Pygmy-schlemiel.

Interesting that they used this for the cover of the paperback - so it didn't look too homo.

Jon Voight was somewhat avant-garde for his day.

As a teenager, I had seen Jon Voight around 1966 in a great off-Broadway revival of A View From the Bridge. He played the young Italian immigrant Rodolfo who's accused of being gay because of his effervescent exuberance and striking blonde hair (odd for an Italian). But the character is actually straight and Voight was probably the rare actor who didn't have to bleach his hair or wear a wig for the plot point.

He was unforgettable (and gorgeous) as was the entire production, which was played in the round in a tiny intimate space. I was so pleased to already be aware of him when I saw Midnight Cowboy a couple of years later.

Well, I guess Voight is the proof that playing a gay character is not the end of your career.

There was nothing effeminate about Joe Buck so it didn't count.

I can't bear to watch anything with Hoffman in it anymore.

But I'd really love to know how serious were those negotiations for Tab Hunter.

He was 30 years old but perfect casting to play an extremely naive, if not dumb, country hick.

I'd never heard about Tab being considered for the role! Really?? I don't think he could have mustered the bravado, as much as I love him.

R40 he was a top. Still had the homosex. Voight was a hero. So was Hoffman. The death of Ratzo was too poignant; and Joe's sorrow was too much so I was in tears and am in tears again as I type. I saw it for the first time this weekend; I was very moved.

[quote]But I'd really love to know how serious were those negotiations for Tab Hunter.

Schlesinger said he was too old - Tab wanted to do it. There were no "negotiations".

[quote]He was 30 years old but perfect casting to play an extremely naive, if not dumb, country hick.

No, he was 38 in 1969.

Tab was even more handsome in his 30s/1960s.

R42 He had sufficient 'bravado' to appear with that morbidly-obese transvestite in 'Polyester' ten years later.

I think he had the appropriate looks and the naivety.

And this interview shows how the director John Schlesinger (and the film editors) could cope with untrained, simple-minded performers with NO ability to speak the lines given to them.

R20- I finally watched the movie in the late 90s and realized I’ve been hearing most of the sound track since I was a child. The harmonica tune is perfection.

Anybody ever saw Thunderbolt & Lightfoot with a very young & handsome Jeff Bridges? At one point JB is dressed as a woman. At the end, JB dies in Clint Eastwood’s car. Reminds me of Midnight Cowboy.

BTW, I once saw Jon Voigt at DFW airport. He was in the first class line to get on a flight. Wearing a suit and looking around, smiling. If I had wanted to approach him as a fan, seems like he would’ve been friendly.

[quote] Anybody ever saw Thunderbolt & Lightfoot with a very young & handsome Jeff Bridges?

Yes. The pistachio ice cream cone scene did things to me.

Jon Voight was great in “Ray Donovan”.

This was my late mum's favourite film of all time, it really a brilliant film. I remember seeing Brenda Vecarra (sp?) in the Windows of the World bat in the late 90s and being thrilled.

Brenda Vacarro , lol - R51

Historically and still today money in male prostitution has always been with male clientele.

Joe Buck being a naif from the country likely didn't know this, but as proven in film he soon found out what time it was.

For men like Joe Buck making his money that way likely would have messed with his head. Lord knows then and now there are plenty of hustlers who stand or lie there and "think of England" while being serviced. But what they have to tell themselves to get to sleep at night is another matter.

Beautiful bit of young rough trade Joe Dallesandro was working streets about same time in real life as "Midnight Cowboy", but he made his money.

I once bumped into Sylvia Miles in the 42nd Street branch of Emigrant Savings Bank. She was wearing cowboy boots!

The first half of the book became the quick-flash memory scenes in the movie. The movie was basically the second half of the book. Reading the book helped me understand Joe Buck a bit more. Also, that harmonica music, the movie's theme, is heartbreaking particularly at the end when the credits roll.

Someone upthread wrote that the Brenda Vaccaro character was disappointed in Joe's performance. She was at first but told him not to worry and when they went at it again, he fucked her well enough that she phoned her friend to recommend Joe to her. In fact, that was a crucial scene because it was the first step for Joe to 'live his dream' but when he returned to the condemned apartment, Rizzo was already dying and he made the choice to take him to Florida.

[quote]Also, that harmonica music, the movie's theme, is heartbreaking particularly at the end when the credits roll.

i saw a more recent digitally "improved" version and like sacrilege they'd turned down the music all the way through. Someone didn't understand how important music was to films in those days. I was very angry.

I often see people online complain about loud musical soundtracks in 60s and 70s movies. This is a non-musical era and they don't get it.

R56 They complain about having credits at all. The narcissism of this generation knows no bounds.

R53 I think it’s a bit more nuanced than that. In the book, Joe Buck has same-sex encounters in the small town where he lives, before he travels to the big city. The author makes it clear that it’s because he desperately wants approval and connection. He is a naïf but he’s also fairly sexually experienced.

In the movie, in the flashback scenes, he is basically shown being gang-raped by the same group of local toughs who go after his mentally ill “girlfriend”. The quick flashbacks are meant to show that Joe Buck is trying to leave behind a very troubled past.

As for Joe Dallesandro, his porno loops show that “the beautiful bit of young, rough trade” had no problems sucking cock and taking it up the ass. For what that’s worth.

In the movie, Joe Buck tells his co-worker before he leaves for New York that back East the men are all tutti-frutti. So I assume he was expecting a mixed clientele.

R59 I got a different read from that line. To me it meant that Joe thought his chances were good of finding horny women because the men were 'all tutti-frutti."

R58 Joe wasn't raped, the toughs were restraining him and forcing him to watch his girlfriend being gang raped. I got the impression the rape is what pushed her into mental illness and Joe couldn't handle the guilt of not protecting her.

Great movie, but also one of the most depressing. I'd advise people to read the book, it really is very good and it explains a lot about the life of poor Joe Buck; abandoned by his mother to the care of his almost totally indifferent grandmother, he grows up isolated and socially unskilled and friendless, which results in him getting taken advantage of sexually by an assortment of revolting characters like a nympho named Anastasia Pratt and a hustler named Perry and an old hag prostitute and her half breed son named Juanita and Tombaby Barefoot. As if he isn't degraded enough in Texas he goes to New York after somebody tells him he looks like a hustler. He has the idea that all the men there are homos so women are desperate for sex and willing to pay for it, so he'll go there and service sex hungry women and make a very fine living doing it. Of course he ends up homeless and destitute. And then he meets Ratso Rizzo....anyway, read the book. It's heartbreaking but very moving.

Is there some allusion in the film's flashbacks that Joe was sexually molested by his grandmother or maybe his mother? Or am I nuts in imagining that?

Midnight Cowboy won the Academy award for best picture of 1969. It was initially rated X, back when some x-rated movies were treated with some level of respect. The phenomenon that was Deep Throat falls into the same category. Well, as a movie-loving nine-year old was devastated that i wouldn't be able to see it until i turned 18. It seemed unfair. Just a year ago Oliver! took best picture; family fun for all ages and my favorite movie as a child without a doubt. Any other DL eldergays have a gayling crush on Mark Lester?

Anyways, the MPAA changed Midnight Cowboy's rating to an R in 1971, and mom and dad took me to see it. And yes, they were as liberal as could be. It was only then that I realized that the lyrics to "Everybody's Talkin' where he sings about "going where the sun keeps shining" and "going where the weather suits my clothes" was about Miami, not New York City.

Midnight Cowboy won the Academy award for best picture of 1969. It was initially rated X, back when some x-rated movies were treated with some level of respect. The phenomenon that was Deep Throat falls into the same category. Well, as a movie-loving nine-year old was devastated that i wouldn't be able to see it until i turned 18. It seemed unfair. Just a year ago Oliver! took best picture; family fun for all ages and my favorite movie as a child without a doubt. Any other DL eldergays have a gayling crush on Mark Lester?

Anyways, the MPAA changed Midnight Cowboy's rating to an R in 1971, and mom and dad took me to see it. And yes, they were as liberal as could be. It was only then that I realized that the lyrics to "Everybody's Talkin' where he sings about "going where the sun keeps shining" and "going where the weather suits my clothes" was about Miami, not New York City.

[quote]But I'd really love to know how serious were those negotiations for Tab Hunter.

Tab was pretty, but there's no way he was up to Voight's performance. This movie is all about the two lead performances. The ending in the bus just kills me. It honestly makes me sad that Voight turned out to be such a douchebag, because that's such a wonderful, sensitive piece of acting. It seems to be conveying a million different emotions at once.

And yes, the score, with Toots Thielemans' harmonica, is one of the all time greatest. Schlesinger directed his share of lousy films this is one he could be proud of.

Tagging onto R53

NYC like most major urban areas in 1960's or 1070's had no shortage of young "rough trade" like Joe Dallesandro who straight or gay made their money in gay circles. Like JD the did nude pictures (beefcake to soft or full porn), turned tricks, etc.... All having seemingly more success than poor Joe Buck.

Someone like Joe Buck would have had to work a particular gay scene to make money escorting; guys who were into big (and perhaps dumb) young guys.

Young Joe Dallesandro and his mates that worked 53rd and Third area were just that; young rough trade or chicken, vastly more marketable than some big clod of Joe Buck.

That $20 we see JD getting after zipping up his pants in linked clip from late 1960's is equal to about $150 in today's money.

Midnight Cowboy won the Academy award for best picture of 1969. It was initially rated X, back when some x-rated movies were treated with some level of respect. The phenomenon that was Deep Throat falls into the same category. Well, as a movie-loving nine-year old was devastated that i wouldn't be able to see it until i turned 18. It seemed unfair. Just a year ago Oliver! took best picture; family fun for all ages and my favorite movie as a child without a doubt. Any other DL eldergays have a gayling crush on Mark Lester?

Anyways, the MPAA changed Midnight Cowboy's rating to an R in 1971, and mom and dad took me to see it. And yes, they were as liberal as could be. It was only then that I realized that the lyrics to "Everybody's Talkin' where he sings about "going where the sun keeps shining" and "going where the weather suits my clothes" was about Miami, not New York City.

Nilsson who sang the song actuaally WROTE and recorded this song FOR the film and Schlesinger rejected it. I think it's pretty crap.

I thought Glen Campbell's Rhinestone Cowboy was written about Midnight Cowboy. Does anyone know if it was written with the hope of being included in the movie soundtrack or if it was an afterthought?

A couple songs were considered. Dylan's Lay Lady Lay was supposed to be the title track but he didn't finish it in time.

[quote]That John Wayne beat them both for the Best Actor Oscar is criminal.

Not a Wayne fan or defender of his politics but, sorry, John Wayne was the star of the year for his performance. He was always considered a decent actor and managed an Oscar nomination in 1949 for "The Sands Of Iwo Jima". But people considered his role in "True Grit" a revelation. Audiences loved it. "Midnight Cowboy" was treated as an art house film until it took off. It grossed a little more than "True Grit" that year and the Oscar helped in the grosses but being X rated MC had zero child admissions where "True Grit" appealed to families even playing Radio City Music Hall, breaking records, so more people saw it.

Wayne even beat Voight & Hoffman at the Golden Globes and the movie earned a sequel and even a remake.

Wayne performance was probably a career best, but there is no way on God’s Green Earth that he was better than either Jon Voight or Dustin Hoffman in Midnight Cowboy.

Wayne was given that award for being old, better than usual and because he was an Icon. The Oscars are full of these kinds of choices. Case in point, the late career Oscars for Al Pacino and Paul Newman.

Surely, Hoffman and Voight would have split their votes leaving Wayne the clear winner? Of Hoffman and Voight was one more likely to win than the other?

My memory was that Hoffman would have garnered more votes than Voight because Ratso was a million miles away from Benjamin Braddock and was really an audacious and applauded career choice. As great as Voight was, it was his first starring role and lead Oscars rarely, if ever, went to young men just starting out back then.

But either way, I think they split the votes, thereby both losing to Wayne. And also, Rooster Cogburn was a different kind of Western hero than Wayne had played, a very flawed character for the first time.

R60 Umm...yes Joe Buck was raped. The movie makes that very clear. As does the book, although under very different circumstances. The point is, both book and movie mean to show that the character has several encounters that are alienating, exploitive and/or violent well before he goes to New York. And that contributes to his badly damaged psyche. The movie takes some liberties with the book, but it is pretty close to the spirit of its original themes. The flashback rape scene is shorthand for what the book is able to go into in much greater detail. Without it, what Joe Buck becomes later doesn’t make much sense.

You may have seen a heavily cut/censored version of the movie if you’ve only seen it on television. If not, you need to watch the complete version again.

I do agree with you about the interpretation of the “tutti-frutti” line though.

I saw it on TV about a week ago. The music, such as it was, was toned right down for some reason.

I saw it with a friend when we were in our teens at a theater in the Combat Zone in Boston because it was rated X. It was a double feature and the other movie was Girl on a Motorcycle starring Marianne Faithful. What a piece of shit that was.

R58 Thanks for the comments. I read the book years ago and saw the movie when it originally came out and a couple times since then on dvd. This thread makes me want to read the book again and view it again. This time I'll look at it from the perspective of many of these comments.

Also, that harmonica theme is heartbreaking. I'm sorry to read some of the comments that it's been toned down in some versions of the movie.

I'm assuming Joe was also molested by his nasty ass grandma.

I think the abuse from nasty ass grandma was Joe having to witness her nasty ass behavior with men.

"I'm assuming Joe was also molested by his nasty ass grandma."

He was never molested by his grandmother Sally Buck. In fact, she had very little to do with him. She ran a beauty shop and that kept her busy during the day; her evenings were spent with various men. She was man crazy. In fact, she died because she wanted one of her lovers to believe she could ride a horse. She was an old lady by then; the horse threw her and she "broke all to pieces" and that was the end of Sally Buck. Joe was in the Army when he was informed of her death; the shock of losing her (she was all he had) caused him to go catatonic for a while. He tried to reenlist but the Army didn't want him anymore. So he came back home to find that his grandmother's sister had liquidated all of Sally Buck's assets (including the house Joe grew up in) and went home with the proceeds, never to be seen or heard from again. Joe Buck was ALWAYS getting screwed, in more ways than one.

R77 I also want to see it again for the same reasons. What’s really cool is that a movie that came out more than 50 years ago is still inspiring so much passion, devotion and debate.

Anyone else find the movie’s depiction of New York oddly appealing and compelling? Between this movie and Taxi Driver, I developed a weird obsession with the seedier side of NY. Maybe it’s because I had a very sheltered life as far away from New York as it’s possible to get. At any rate, as a kid, I found the seediness, even the dissipation, almost sexy and glamorous.

I know both movies were trying to show a kind of hell on earth. If that was the case, it was a hell I wanted to visit. If only for awhile. With the caveat that I could return to my nice, safe environment at anytime of course. Such is the power of movies!

[quote] Anyone else find the movie’s depiction of New York oddly appealing and compelling?

In some of the scenes the folk walking around outside were super well-dressed.

[quote] Anyone else find the movie’s depiction of New York oddly appealing and compelling? Between this movie and Taxi Driver, I developed a weird obsession with the seedier side of NY. Maybe it’s because I had a very sheltered life as far away from New York as it’s possible to get. At any rate, as a kid, I found the seediness, even the dissipation, almost sexy and glamorous.

I know what you mean, R82. When I was little, I thought it was really carefree to walk around the neighborhood barefooted, like some of my neighbors did. My mother always scolded me about putting on shoes. I realize now that being barefooted was, to her, associated with poverty.

As a child, a lot of that shit (hanging out on the street, in motels) was fascinating & seemed care-free. As an adult, no way in hell would I want to live my life like that.

[quote]Joe Buck was ALWAYS getting screwed, in more ways than one.

Buck would never had been a bottom.

Glad you enjoyed it because its one of those movies that is often shit on as inaccessible today.

[quote]At any rate, as a kid, I found the seediness, even the dissipation, almost sexy and glamorous.

Really? that sordid condemned building they lived in filled me with horror. When I moved to NYC that was my nightmare.

R68 The song was written by Fred Neil, and not for the movie. Neil also longed to leave NYC for FL, which he finally did, using his fortune from the song's proceeds for dolphin-rescue activities.

The movie is rife with misogyny from beginning to the very end, and fairly homophobic.

The movie is as cruel to straight men as it is to gay men and women. No one comes out alive.

Jon Voight was excellent in Midnight Cowboy but Dustin Hoffman was playing a CHARACTER. He was still FULL OF HIMSELF from his success in The Graduate.

I agree about Hoffman.

& that line/ad lib "I'm walking here" isn't as impressive as we're led to believe

Schlesinger had a new BF at this time. he introduced him to new American music & the film benefited enormously because of it. This is one of the best "pop songs" I've ever heard.

I love scene in the cafe with Joe, crazy lady, her son and their gross dead mouse.

R73: Wayne basically received a "lifetime achievement award". People knew he had a limited number of pictures left in him and "True Grit" was a good example of his best sort of screen persona (he was usually terrible in modern dress and could be annoyingly one note as in "The Searchers".

I don't believe that the "I'm walking here" scene was improvised. Not for one second.

Now that we've seen Rain Man, Dustin's "Ratso" tics and exaggerated mannerisms seem pretty phony.

This movie totally changed Hollywood and ushered in the age of the gritty, realistic films that would dominate the 1970s. It also ended the era of the beautiful and glamorous Hollywood stars.

Funny Girl and Hello, Dolly! had just won Best Picture and then Midnight Cowboy was released the following year and it was a massive cultural shift for Hollywood.

R97 I think you mean Funny Girl and Hello Dolly had been NOMINATED for Best Picture in their respective years, (1968, 1969).

56 year-old here. This thread prompted me to watch this for the first time in maybe 30 years. It still holds up, mostly because the touching relationship between these two damaged men. Someone upthread said it was distracting how much Voigt looks like his daughter but I was more taken aback by how much he and Ricky Schroder look alike (yes I know they played father and son in The Champ). Also, when Hoffman first appeared I kind of rolled my eyes at his performance but I have to admit that he grew on me to the point where I thought his performance overall was quite moving.

[quote] 56 year-old here

So young

It’s been years, but I have seen it twice. The first time must have been an edited version, because I never had a clue that Joe had been raped back in the small town, but the next time I saw it, it was clear that he had been.

Just saw that it’s on HBO Max. I think I will watch it tonight.

I have just obtained the book on Kindle.

Watching it now.

Love looking at all the late 60s fashions in the background.

Didn’t realize until now that Jennifer Salt is Crazy Annie!

Ann Roth designed the costumes for Midnight Cowboy and she is still working today at 89. She designed the costumes for Ma Rainey's Black Bottom and is considered a shoo-in for an Oscar nomination if not the winner. She is beloved within the industry.

Gowns by Jean-Louis, not.

[quote]I have just obtained the book on Kindle.

Thanks for the update, R102

[quote]She designed the costumes for Ma Rainey's Black Bottom

They made a movie of that shitfest?

[quote]Now that we've seen Rain Man, Dustin's "Ratso" tics and exaggerated mannerisms seem pretty phony.

Yes, he is a two note actor.

He had a few very good scenes - when he was all sweaty and dirty at the psychedelic party, for instance.

[quote]Didn’t realize until now that Jennifer Salt is Crazy Annie!

Nepotism at work. Her father wrote the screenplay.

I've always thought Jon Voight's face was fugly, but his body, in "Midnight Cowboy' especially, was gorgeous—rugged and muscular. His ass was a sight to behold.

Fantastic film. Too bad John Voight has turned into such a right wing cunt.

Imagine Sarazzin in the Joe Buck role. He was first offered or maybe even cast. He'd have been good in the role too, much as I love Voight (who pushes the precious stuff a bit in spots).

I always thought John Wayne's best picture was "The Shootist".

R114, no , Wayne's best performance will always be "Red River".

R114 / R115 It's "The Searchers" for me. Everytime I watch it, I see something new.

Wayne was a racist, so his performances mean nothing to me.

R117 I guess that's why he employed Woody Strode in many of his movies...

If you want to see another gritty Hoffman movie go watch Straight Time.

[quote] I guess that's why he employed Woody Strode in many of his movies...

Means nothing. His Playboy interview told me all I need to know.

Jon Voight was beautiful in Deliverance. That hairstyle in Midnight Cowboy was not flattering.

Critics claimed three false notes in this movie -- the Warhol party scene ("they never would've been invited"), Joe Buck knocking the old man's dentures out of his mouth with the telephone ("he wasn't violent"), and John McGuyver's "I have prayed in the toilets" scene ("over the top"). To me, these were some of the best moments in the film. Raw and real. Brenda Vaccaro was fabulous in it. She's still kicking at 81.

The Warhol party was kind of lame until Rizzo started filling his pockets with lunch meat.

[quote] Critics claimed three false notes in this movie -- the Warhol party scene ("they never would've been invited") ...

Critic sounds like a DLer. Probably true, that Ratso Rizzo and hayseed Joe Buck would not have been invited. Maybe sexy hayseed on his own (without Rizzo).

Hard to believe they made that movie for $3M. I'm old enough to remember NYC during that era. In my teens, I dropped out of high school and moved to a seedy hotel room near Times Square. Didn't know a soul. Wasn't hot enough to hustle but I was broke so I identified with Joe Buck. But what I really wanted was to live like the queens from The Boys in the Band.

Such a great fucking film. One of my top 10 faves. And yes, it IS a love story.

I'd say it's the pivotal movie about the failure of American masculinity, but I decided that was Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo.

What I love most about the film are the CATS

Brenda looks good. She did an interview earlier this year. She says she was supposed to be naked for the bed scene. Her mother told her "I can't believe I'm seeing your breasts before I'm gonna see your face in your first movie." So Vaccaro pleaded with Ann Roth, the costume designer. "I bought this red fox coat for two hundred bucks," Roth said. "And I told Brenda not to worry, that she wouldn't have to lie there naked.

"I thought it was fabulous," Vaccaro said. "And Jon had no clothes on. Well, maybe he had something, over something."

TAMPONS!!

MONY

I just watched Midnight cowboy for the first time last night. Wow. Such a great movie, especially the beginning and ending. Jon Voight is amazing in this movie

John Wayne got the sympathy vote. Oscar just adores those circling the drain.

Regarding Voight

[Quote] ...His ass was a sight to behold in Midnight Cowboy

Yes. It was. Sorry to see him turn into a wacko.

Agreed r134. It oddly enough was part of a movie trailer shown here on UK tv and helped clarify a lot of things for this gayling.

Brenda Vacarro got a Globe nomination but then Syliva Miles got her Oscar slot.

Was this a surprise?

This movie is so well done, but for atleast a day after watching it I feel like I'm in an odd space (and I'm stupid enough to watch periodically. The music stays in my head which keeps the story there, it's tone is so strong it has residual value.