Why is Judy Garland so beloved by The Gays?

Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs.

Because -- and I'm saying this with love -- she was the ultimate MARY! She *just could not* ... and then she could ... and then she could not again ...

"Somewhere over the rainbow, skies are blue...and the dreams that you dare to dream really do come true." It's like she was singing directly to all those gays who were hiding in the shadows.

R2. Indeed.

I like blue.

I was molested.

I like the shapes that aren't circles.

She was a combination of warmth (vocal), fragility and resilience that spoke strongly to a community which lived constantly with the threat of exposure, arrest and physical and psychological abuse. Her resort to booze and drugs to cope wasn't outside the bounds of recognition either. She was a bit like a biography of the song I Will Survive.

We all want to go somwhere "Over the Rainbow."

What gays? I don't know any gays that like JG or musicals. This isn't the 1940s anymore. Most of my gay and bi friends like hip hop/rap, trap and rock/pop.

Welcome to Datalounge, R10!

You must be new here.

I've been here for many years, R11.

My experience is like r10's. I don't know any gay for whom JG is beloved. My guess is that a certain subset of ancient gay influencer types - the kind who collect at the Town House - liked her and that was enough in the old days to create the myth.

I wish ignorant millennials would stop "guessing".

It's a combination of factors for me. There's a wall of sound coming from that tiny body. There is incredible control and style in her singing. At her best, like in the Carnegie Hall album, she's giving you absolutely everything all at once. There's a vulnerability and pain that she expresses that gay men understand. On top of her live performance skill, she was a deft actress and strong dancer, enough to keep up with Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire. Add in her many fall downs and comebacks and her tragic but inevitable death, and she's destined to always be an icon.

Garland was a great singer, could be a very good actress, and was a big personality. Her talent was immense. But time goes on, and what people prefer changes from decade to decade. One cannot expect people to embrace performers from the past. Some will still listen to her music and enjoy her performances, but it's a diminishing number. Some young people may "discover" her. She has withstood the test of time better than most -- is anyone still listening to Deanna Durbin or Jeanette McDonald? Doris Day? One has to accept change. Garland is a classic pop singer, but she is not to everyone's taste. (She wasn't to everyone's taste when she was alive!) I listen daily.

Wow R4, I never saw that!

[quote] I don't know any gays that like JG or musicals.

Also, I am 10 years old trapped in a 20 something body. Your ignorance is showing just by that statement. Trapped in a bubble? Only talk to gays withing 5 years of your age? Disinterested in gay history movement? Or all of the above.

[quote]My guess is that a certain subset of ancient gay influencer types - the kind who collect at the Town House - liked her

A. "Influencers" didnt exist before Youtube.

B. Ancient gays including young gaylings know who Judy Garland is.

C. The Town House is one bar, most people outside of NYC have never heard of it, your theory is laughable, gays all over the world love Judy.

[quote]Most of my gay and bi friends like hip hop/rap, trap and rock/pop.

Hip Hop/ rap? You type old. 80's called they want their shitty rap back.

No-one under 50, gay or straight, has any idea who she is.

Never heard a her till I saw a clip of "Meat Me in St. Louis" on youtube. For some reason it was a suggested video so I watched it. She had a powerful voice but not the greatest of actresses. Not understanding the love for her. Then again I'm under 105.

She could be very quick and funny and observant. I think the combination of raw talent and vulnerability is interesting to observe. Maybe she’s like an iconic fuckup, and we enjoy the brightness of her performances like an overheated engine in an exotic automobile. Fascinating, impractical.

You can't expect people who think Megan Thee Stallion is a great artist to get Judy Garland.

And what current mainstream music today qualifies as "rock"? Oh, you rubes.

Forget her life. Just listen to the voice. The gal had chops.

Because she was a great singer and artist. Gay men admire and even idolize gifted women whether in the arts, sports or politics. How many straight men do you know who will idolize, at least openly, a gifted woman whether it’s the Williams sisters, HRC, or Judy Garland.

Gays are "friends of Dorothy."

JG is Dorothy.

QED, the gays ❤️ Judy Garland.

J U D Y !

R19: “ A. "Influencers" didnt exist before Youtube.

B. Ancient gays including young gaylings know who Judy Garland is.

C. The Town House is one bar, most people outside of NYC have never heard of it, your theory is laughable, gays all over the world love Judy.”

Ok, gramps.

[quote]Ancient gays including young gaylings

What does this mean?

[quote] Never heard a her till I saw a clip of "Meat Me in St. Louis"

Most people know Judy from "The Wizard of Oz." I think she was beloved by most kids because of that movie. Is "The Wizard of Oz" still popular? When I was a kid, it was shown on TV once a year and it was an event. We were allowed to stay up and watch it.

The first time I saw color TV was one of those broadcasts of it. When the movie changed from B&W to color, we all went, "Ooooh!" But when the Wicked Witch came on the screen, with her green face, I ran out of the house.

As a kid, I couldn't connect the young Judy of "The Wizard of Oz" to the grown-up Judy singing adult songs on TV and shown in nightclub films. They seemed like two different people.

For a while it was hard for me to believe she was the same person as the girl in "The Wizard of Oz." These adult songs on TV were part of that grown-up world that only adults can understand.

As far as her becoming a gay icon, all the reasons stated in the other posts contributed to it. But her fame was anchored in "The Wizard of Oz" and then augmented with later films, records and TV. She built up a following.

[quote] Never heard a her till I saw a clip of "Meat Me in St. Louis" on youtube.

Oh, DEAR.

OH, DEAR!!

She was no Helen L:awson.

I think that Madonna was more of a gay icon than Judy.

Maybe even Whitney Houston, too.

Thanks to DL and the pandemic I finally got to see The Wizard of OZ even though I hate musicals. I asked my nephew and my niece, 12 and 13 to watch too. They thought the movie looked like a cheap High school musical and they weren't wrong. They did like Over the Rainbow.

Considering that the movie was made in 1939, Miss R36, I'd say that you and your family are a bunch of ignorant twats.

Instead of impressing upon them the miracle of colorization in film in the 1930's - and try to teach them something - you'd much rather have them assign 2020 value to the movie and its special effects, thereby reinforcing your own AND their stupidity.

You're a fucking idiot.

[quote]No-one under 50, gay or straight, has any idea who she is.

Except for the millions of people who attended a play about her traveling all over the country about 2 years ago and a major Hollywood movie with Renée Zellweger which came out last year. But yeah, other than that no one under 50 has heard of her.

She was an emotionally needy, manipulative, vain, bitter, substance-abusing, sexually insatiable narcissist. And y'all wonder why gay men adore her?!?!

[quote] Considering that the movie was made in 1939, Miss [R36], I'd say that you and your family are a bunch of ignorant twats. Instead of impressing upon them the miracle of colorization in film in the 1930's - and try to teach them something - you'd much rather have them assign 2020 value to the movie and its special effects, thereby reinforcing your own AND their stupidity

I see you're the prissy kind that defends works of art as if it were your own, how sad can one be? Not liking something doesn't make anyone ignorant, grandma and no one had them assign anything, just like your prissy self with a chip on your shoulder they have opinions and expressed them. Too bad you'll be dead soon and wont see their generation forget about this predictably banal musical for the silliness that it is.

Would you like them to worship a rotary phone for the marvel of technology it was back then too?

ha

I hope R40 never goes to film school. Apparently the importance of classics are a topic he lacks the intellect to understand.

[quote] ha

Ha ha! I'll say.

Anyone who thinks that THE WIZARD OF OZ looks like a cheap, high school musical has got rocks in his/her head. The 3-D remastering of the film a few years ago pointed out just how amazing the production quality was. Sets, costumes, color and music are still eye-filling. And the performances.... I watched the new blu-rays of THE HARVEY GIRLS and THE PIRATE a few days ago and was again struck by the pure, real emotions that play across Judy's face. She had a way of baring her character's soul andi t wasn't a matter of acting skill or technique. The millennials can knock her all they want.

I actually went to a very prestigious films school but that's beside the point. The arrogance some of you display here is risible to say the least. Just because someone didn't like your diva's work that doesn't mean they're ignorant, I can almost picture you in your caftans yelling at the screen. The horror!

I didn't watch Oz back in film school because I dislike musicals and because back then I couldn't care less about stories for children, I still graduated with honors. As for informing the kids about Technicolor, they are aware of it and its irrelevant to them, it only matters for film students and enthusiasts. In the end, a film speaks for itself and most movies will at some point be forgotten or overshadowed by a remake, that's the nature of art.

The analogy with a rotary phones is pertinent, kids today are aware it used to be this way, it's still rudimentary compared to current smartphones, I don't understand what else you want them to do? Worship the obsolete? This movie is obsolete and will be seen as such, I'm sorry.

Only old bitter queens and film students care about it, most people, the target for movies, will just laugh at the film and at your faces trying to defend it.

[quote]The ghosts of Kuleshov, Lipsett and Einstein

I doubt The Prom or Hamilton will be watched, beloved or discussed for decades to come like The Wizard of Oz has or like The Sound of Music has which is on channel 7 prime time tonight from 7-11pm EST.

I think most of the gay Judy fans have passed away over the years and as we move forward each new generation has its own beloved gay icons.

R47, just because a movie is talked about for decades after doesn't necessarily make it a good film. Look at pieces of shit like All About Eve or It's a Wonderful Life. Even though people still talk about them today, I think most people would agree they're huge piles of crap.

R46, "Einstein," lol. I think--I HOPE--that this is trolling at a very high, almost ethereal level.

I'm 58 and I couldn't care less about Judy Garland (I'd honestly rather listen to Deanna Durbin). But then I'm not fond of Barbra Streisand or Cher or Lady Gaga either.

I've just been listening to Mavis Staples from the early 1960s and she's far more satisfying to me than any of the histrionic gay icons. But we all have our own taste.

Yeah, focus on a misspelling and make it all about it, that's what people with no arguments resort to.

The Sound of Music (1965) and The Wizard of Oz (1939) are beloved, watched and remain popular decade after decade whatever the reason or quality. And if they are such crap what explains their popularity 55 or 80 years after they were produced. Certainly this will never happen to crap like Rent, La La Land, Hamilton or The Prom!

I smell the scent of a desperate attempt to look relevant to millennials and possible tricks.

a must be upthread.

If you don't like what *I* like, then there's something wrong with *you*.

Just watched “Judy” and cried like a big ole Mary when she sang “Over the Rainbow”

Well she sure is not "beloved" by this gay !

[quote]But we all have our own taste.

And some have none at all.

Judy Garland is beloved by gays in spite of, no wait, because she did blackface.

R56, I finally watched Judy just last week with my friend. He's 52, I'm 40. Neither of us knew that much about her, other than WoO and the tragedy/myth of her life and death.

That movie, while not the best, opened my eyes to her story in a more concrete way. Very sad.

Off topic a bit, I've been trying to get this friend to latch onto DL for about 15 years. He just can't get the humor. But when I told him about Joey "I like blue" Luft and how he makes random appearances on threads? He cracked up for about ten minutes. We might have found another convert, boys!

She ain’t no Janet Jackson

She ain’t no Madonna

She ain’t no Connie Francis

She ain’t no Lisa Hartman Black

She ain’t no Pia Zorda

She ain’t no JLO

She ain’t no Liza, wait she kind of is.

Jeez, do we have to have one of these threads EVERY SIX MONTHS? Do a search OP. She's been discussed ad nauseum.

That hideous film last year called Judy (how original) starring the terrible Renee Zellweger didn't do Garland's legacy any favours.

I don’t get the Joey and him liking blue, bit. What’s that all about?

[quote] Maybe even Whitney Houston, too.

LOL. That self-loathing lesbian who chose Jaysus over her true self and let her life be ruined by a bigoted cunt of a mother and an overbearing, hypocritical, self-righteous church ethos? A gay icon? The one who was offended to be even asked about the possibility and shot back with defensive "I am married! I have a child. I loves me mah man." response?

Judy is beloved because she would get really drunk and destroy hotel rooms.

Why do the gays pick such tragic people as their icons? This bitch was a self-destructive lunatic and a drug addict and not deserving of iconic status. You boys should follow the example of the straight world and look up to people who've actually done positive things and deserve to be called heroes. People like Tom Brady and Drew Brees come to mind. Looking back in sports history further, there were sports legends like Joe Namath and Frank Gifford who deserve iconic status.

You don't feel sorry for Whitney at all, R65?

Her life is so sad and tragic.

As for R67, those two fundie right-wing Trump loving cunts can DROP DEAD!

R64 if you don't know you can't sit with us.

I realize that there's a gay men = Judy connection that can obscure her legacy. I resisted her music and tried to distance myself from it for most of my twenties.

I explored her music - and many other musicians and actors from the "old days" - and realized Garland really was top of the class in so, so many ways. She is not the "chick" on the side to Sinatra, Martin, etc. - she is every bit their equal and often gives Frank a run for his money. She just so innately understood music, dance and acting. There's been millions of stories as to how someone could spend 90 seconds showing her a dance step and she'd just - KNOW it.

I think a lot of it is that she's one of those singers who acts a song - not in a style filled with artifice, but by inhabiting the song, in a way. It's something we're not used to seeing or hearing if we were born in the pop/rock era.

I don't know that gay men always flocked exclusively to *tragedy* as they did singers who were very *emotional* in their singing. Dusty Springfield had huge gay audiences in the late 60s, similar to the same crowds that liked Judy, and she wasn't a tragic figure (not until much later). Bette Midler, it could be argued, drew some of the same audiences for some of the same reasons - though I find her "acting" of songs a bit less natural than singers like Garland and Springfield.

And lest I be labeled as some old 1940s eldergay queen, I have music from practically every decade of the 20th century and all of the 21st in my collection, which includes over 50,000 digital tracks and over a thousand LP's. I may not be a fan of trendy rap or trap, but I'm not a fan of repetitive music and I find most of that uber repetitive. Lest I be accused of being an "old white queen" from THAT comment, I'll tell you I love neo soul and insist you sit your ass down to listen to some Thundercat, Knox Fortune and Kamasi Washington, to name just a few.

The only thing TRAGIC these days is some of the manufactured, boring, repetitive shit that passes for the Top 40. Not a heartfelt note to be found anywhere. You don't have to like what I like, but it really makes me said that the corporate side of music has so monopolized the market. When everyone trips over the human bathroom contour rug that is Billie Eilish, a talent like Judy would have a hard time being noticed in today's market.

I seem to recall that either JG's father or husband or manager was gay / bi. She seemed to be accepting of all people. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think she was one of the first major celebrities to recognize, accept and celebrate her gay audience.

Additionally, SOMEWHERE OVER THE RAINBOW is a song strongly connected to the gay community. It seems every year around June there are many PRIDE playlists available on line and lists of gay anthems. SOMEWHERE OVER THE RAINBOW is often towards the top of these lists along with BORN THIS WAY and I WILL SURVIVE and George Michael.

Also, maybe it's a myth or maybe it's false, but I think there was some connection between Judy Garland's passing and the riots at Stonewall. Maybe they occurred within the same week?

Her father had a bad case of the Kevin Spacey/Bryan Singers, though. But yes, maybe she understood or had some kind of empathy for the duality of what gay life was at the time.

And - R71, dearest, the song is called OVER THE RAINBOW.

I don't know why she was beloved by gays, but it's not like she was a fringe artist. She was a hugely popular star. Something that bugs me and I'm not an ancient person, is the way pop music, pre-rock, has been erased . It's like everything starts with the Beatles, or even Elvis. This is fucked up.

For the record I know some young, very young - teens, 20s - kids who are fans, don't make blanket statements.

[quote] I seem to recall that either JG's father or husband or manager was gay / bi.

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of Vincente Minnelli. Liza's father.

He directed Judy in "Meet Me In St. Louis," then later married her. But he was gay as a goose!

Judy seemed to have no clue that her husband was gay. LOL.

R74 Judy's father was also gay, or at least seemed to have a weakness for teenage twinks.

I have noticed that any gay man who’s a fan of Judy Garland is an unfuckable fug.

Nor did her less talented daughter R75.

Excellent R65. Proof that the closet can kill...

This topic has its own Wikipedia page, FFS.

I knew that Friend of Dorothy had a homosexual connotation but I always thought that it referred to Dorothy Zbornak from a show called The Golden Girls, which had a huge homosexual following. It ran for many years in the '80s and '90s.

Judy's father, Minnelli, and one of her other husbands were gay. Liza had two gay husbands. Something strange runs in that family.

Whether or not she is currently or will be a gay icon doesn't matter to me. What does matter is that she is and always will be a show business legend like Piaf, Presley, Sinatra, Jolson, Fitzgerald, Holiday, etc., long after anyone knows or cares about their private lives. Talent like that will endure. I have a couple of straight friends who are recent Julliard grads who knew of her only tangentially. I played her Battle Hymn of the Republic performance and they were knocked out. Wanted to hear more of her and more about her. Learning of her troubled life only made them respect her more.

I must be a bad gay, cuz I never heard of any of those people r83 mentioned besides maybe Evlis Presley. Wtf is a piaf? LOLzers.

I watched "Judy" last night with Renee Z and it was awful. It made me really dislike Judy. If you watch her later interviews, Judy became a mean and bitter woman.

It's obvious from the movie that Judy and Liza had little to no relationship towards the end of her life.

Yeah, it's partly the Wizard of Oz. But it's also her fabulous belting. THAT'S the question. Why do gays love big belters? Judy, Barbra, Liza, Ethel, Patti LuPone- all have (or had) big gay followings.

Also, she was amazingly talented. Liking Judy doesn't necessarily mean you're gay, it means you have good taste!

I liked the movie. I think its tone and pacing would have made for a better limited part series, and Renee Z, while capturing speaking Judy well enough, just couldn't quite land the performances. But I thought Judy came across as more of a well rounded human in those later years than in other depictions (even in Me and My Shadows, an otherwise superior piece).

So what was this bitch's connection to stonewell that someone asked abt earlier? I know that Stonewell is connected to gay rights but what's it's connection to Garland?

Stonewall happened the evening of her funeral. I once heard someone say "Judy's funeral was earlier that day, and we were in no mood to be fucked with." Others say the fact that Stonewall happened that night had absolutely nothing to do with it.

I have no idea, as I wasn't born yet.

I was around then, and have no idea of whether that story is true. I was aware of Judy's death, but not really aware of Stonewall until a long time later. (I didn't live in NYC until 1978.) It certainly enhances both legends, so we're free to believe whatever we want.

I liked old Judy vs young Judy. She HAD had t

If this bitch had lived, do you think Angie would've given her a guest gig on Murder, She Wrote, or Spelling on Dynasty? Would she have done the Love Boat/Fantasy Island circuit?

R88, I've read convincing statements that Judy's death had no obvious connection to Stonewall. The symbolism--the end of one gay era, the start of another one--is pretty dramatic, though.

The Stonewall story - it probabky DID have an influence on some people who were there. I don't know why historians or anyone else need it to either be true for everyone or true for no one.

Time had a pretty fair-minded article about the Judy-Stonewall connection. They don't give a definitive answer, and it may be impossible to ascertain one, at this point.

Like Linda Ellerbee used to say, if it's not true, it ought to be.

not true, r21, and kids who don't grow up knowing her will discover her themselves - her legacy is too great.

Tragic divas:

1) are extremely talented at something but often get used by a more domineering controlling person

2) tend to mood swings and falling into rages

3) find true happiness elusive

4) are typically misunderstood or not tolerated by people around them, sometimes even being treated as freaks

5) have almost impossible standards in men and are almost invariable disappointed by them

6) have a flair for the overly dramatic

Hmmm, [italic]why ever[/italic] would gay men be fascinated by tragic divas?

Gay men of a certain age Bootsy

Young gays are not fixated on TRAGIC divas

She was the genuine article when it came to pure talent, which is what made her premature death tragic.

R96 That's nonsense. I'm glad you like her and I know she represents something for gays of a certain age, but ask anyone under 40 who she was and they'll just look back at you blankly. They might have heard of her and might have been made to watch The Wizard of Oz once when they were a kid, but that'll be about it.

If Time Magazine is pushing the "trans women of color started Stonewall and those mean old racist gay white men did nothing" myth, then they are not a credible source.

Judy never really had what it takes for longevity.

[quote]I actually went to a very prestigious films school but that's beside the point. The arrogance some of you display here is risible.

Have you looked in the mirror?

[quote]I didn't watch Oz back in film school because I dislike musicals and because back then I couldn't care less about stories for children, I still graduated with honors.

Sure Jan, I am sure all good film schools encourage their students to skip entire genre of film. Was that "prestigious" film school one of those For-Profit Art Schools? The kind you dont need a demo real and real talent to get in? Mommy and Daddy have a lot of cash do they?

[quote]Young gays are not fixated on TRAGIC divas

You sure about that?

Who? ^

[quote] kids who don't grow up knowing her will discover her themselves - her legacy is too great.

I don't buy the bullshit that the younger generation doesn't know or care about Judy.

My nephew was born in 2002, and he LOVES the Wizard of Oz.

Maybe not so much Dorothy, but the flying monkeys, the scarecrow, and the tin man. He used to sing along with the movie when he was a little kid.

Wizard of Oz evokes a sense of wonder in people, no matter how old you are.

It's just that kind of movie.

It's the tragedy of her combined with the glamor. She represents something a lot of gay men can relate to: putting on a show and holding it together for the sake of your audience even as you're dying inside. She was a tragic figure, and a glamorous figure, which is enough to make her an icon.

Our community has always loved golden cage narratives, and Judy is nothing if not the human embodiment of the bird trapped within the golden cage.

MARY ^

You dont have to like her, or her music or movies, but to say no one under 50 knows who she is just highlights your ignorance, not something to be proud of.

Judy Garland in the Wizard of Oz was voted the 20th century's number one song by the Recording Industry Assoc of America and the National Endowment for the Arts. I guess you never heard of those things since you went to such a prestigious film school.

But did she ever have animated bluebirds?

Honestly, I only really connected with Judy in the Wizard of Oz, not the other high drama Judy doing her stage shows. Of course she died when I was 6 years old, so that's all I knew at the time. I remember asking my mother what the word suicide was because there were several times they announced it on the radio and then she was ok. Then finally it wasn't. I'm 57 so it's not like I worship her or even knew her when she was alive but I get nostalgic when I hear her sing over the rainbow.

All the other movies and stuff that came out about her drug use, and drama in later years really turned me off. Mainly because I had a gay friend that basically did all that manic, drunken, needy behavior in real life. If he put on a wig, you would swear it was the same person behaving badly. It's all too common among gay men at any age.

My partner is 38. He's a huge Judy Garland fan, and has also collected an enormous amount of her memorabilia, including every movie she ever made and every recording she ever made on vinyl LPs. He has every published biography. He has a reel of film taken by someone using one of those old movie cameras, and there's footage of Judy at someone's swimming pool on it. There's stuff I can't even remember. He started collecting this in his 20s.

Is he gay, r112?

Because she was a fucking mess. Same with Marilyn and Princess Diana. They were confused, scared, angry, abused, fucked up women who lashed out at society for causing them pain. I never cared for any of them personally, but I know people who do.

Absolutely, R113

Do you think any straight men worship Judy? Or do they prefer to jerk off to Miriam Hopkins?

The hystrionics, drug addiction, multiple near death experiences due to illnesses, fragile emotionally, big musicals, female, Wizard of Oz.

[quote]Too bad you'll be dead soon and wont see their generation forget about this predictably banal musical for the silliness that it is.

Garland will be heard, discussed and seen long after you and your kin are piles of forgotten dust.

Why is this mess of a human being still celebated?

Why not?

She was better than Taylor Swift...

She married several gay men, as did her daughter Liza.

[quote] But did she ever have animated bluebirds?

No, ma’am, that was me!

She appeals to melodramatic types, certainly, because her life story was so extreme. You cannot deny that she was massively talented, and had huge appeal to the public. She was mistreated, screwed over by the business and men, and made rash decisions. She kept company that was sometimes sordid, and had nobody with the balls to stand up to her and protect her. I still don’t think hers is a tragic story. She did what she wanted.

She is basically every gay man....emotionally needy, bitter, overly dramatic, self absorbed, narcissistic, etc.

And you, R125, are basically every homophobic frau projecting your own personality problems onto the gay men you gave birth to.

No, haven't been interested in his work for quite a while, although his topics always seem intriguing.

Really enjoying HAMNET.

I don't really have an answer to this, but I think why *anyone* liked her was because she was authentic. Entertainment is always artificial, especially the movies, and I have always felt she cut through that, and there's an immediate connection when you watch her. She had a very natural way of singing, and acting, and her emotions were genuine, and she always kidded herself and had a self-deprecating quality. But also genuine emotional reactions. And never overdone.

Let's try and bring some rationality to a discussion (from admittedly a very flawed premise) that in typical DL fashion brings out the emotional absolutists on both sides. OP there are no "The Gays" there are gays in America (and this is a wholly culturally American viewpoint) who range in age from 1 to 100.

While you will find fans of Garland at every age to some degree or another; Judy was really only "beloved" by a certain segment of a certain cohort of gay men, for reasons that are well stated above. Those men are all currently over 60 -- actually over 70 is probably much more accurate for the generation that considered her something of a "Gay Icon." Again that wasn't every gay guy, but certainly very many; she was still a big star in the culture at large when they were young.

Going younger, the cohort that is currently 65 - 45 (I'm 57) were the kids that grew up watching OZ on TV every year. We certainly knew who she was, as does every other American our age. Also, even though she died when I was 6, the culture we were raised in only had a fraction of the current level of mass media, and it wasn't overly geared to children - so there's a good chance we were aware of her other movies from seeing them run on TV, and music our parents / grandparents listened on the radio. We knew who she was, that she had been a big star, that she was very talented, and that she was dead. Most of us aren't overly enamored of her as a performer, even though we don't deny her talent, and the Diva Lovers among us are much more likely to be way too into Madonna or Cher than Judy.

For the 45 - 25 year olds, I'm sure the bulk have seen OZ at least once or twice; but it wasn't an annual childhood ritual for most of them, especially the younger you go. Patterns of media consumption changed drastically with the rise of cable TV -- numerous stations created new content for kids that aired all week long, not just on Saturday mornings so old movies and tv shows weren't the only thing to watch; and then, obviously, the internet. Most Americans in this cohort still know who she was; but are probably only dimly aware of the rest of her career, and don't consider her beloved, or really consider much at all; but she hasn't fallen into complete cultural obscurity like many stars the 20th century.

My nieces and nephews range in age from 11 - 27; they all saw OZ growing up and they all enjoyed it, some of them very much. They know her name but nothing of the rest of her career. In comparison I'm sure not one of them would know who Mickey Rooney was.

Why do gay men love Wonder Woman? She's not messed up at all and change costumes in a flash of light!

No, she hasn't fallen into complete cultural obscurity, nor will she. And not just because of gay men. As long as great singing and entertaining is valued, she'll be remembered and admired.

Bra is the worst.

Hahaha. Did it again. Wrong thread.

As Liza once said in an interview, "because they have good taste."

Judy sang and performed from the heart. It wasn't just about hitting notes. You could pick hundreds of musical theatre grads who could hit the notes just as well and powerful as Judy, but most of them couldn't bring the heart to them. She really did act the songs she performed. That goes a long way and it's a lost art these days even on Broadway. Some people can act and some can sing, but very few can do both at the same time and make it believable.

There's something very cathartic about seeing someone like her baring her soul through song like that. It's pure vulnerability. It's something that could easily come across as laughable, but because she believes in what she's singing, it becomes something profound. A few other people could do this, but they were rare even in her day when musical stars were still a thing. It's always something special to see and hear.

Did Judy and Mickey Rooney ever fuck? I heard he was extremely well endowed.

Aside from OZ, MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS is still enjoyed by kids today, always playing on TV around the holidays.

Oh please no one under 90 has seen much less heard of Meet Me in St. Louis.

She always sounded like someone mimicking a singer.

[quote] Aside from OZ, MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS is still enjoyed by kids today

Uh, hon, put down the pipe.

Had she not done The Wizard of Oz, no one would remember her now. It’s like with Joan Crawford. Had Mommie Dearest not been published, no one today would even know who she was.

I can't speak for anyone younger than me, R138, but I'm under 40 and I've seen it multiple times.

[quote]It's obvious from the movie that Judy and Liza had little to no relationship towards the end of her life.

Because that movie is oh so accurate. Please, they couldn't even spring for a realistic Valley of the Dolls pantsuit which she wears for thirty minutes of the film.

When have "realistic" and [italic]Valley of the Dolls[/italic] ever been used together in a sentence?

My better half, I assure you, is no idiot. He has a sharp mind when it comes to finances and computers, and has sound common sense. But I noticed he would ask questions while watching TV like "Which one is Doris Day?" One day he made it very clear: He has no idea what happened in the world before 1976 (when he was born) and isn't about to become interested. And I think that's pretty much how it is in general, in America anyway. I cannot imagine many people under 60 of any sexual orientation knowing much about Judy Garland, much less being fans. I'll go even further and say that even Renee Zellweger and whoever wrote and directed "Judy" (and as someone pointed out, the costumer) didn't know enough to tell what was remotely accurate.

Jeez, some of you talk about her like she's Tina Yothers or something.

She was the Frankie Grande of her day!

I'm still big! It's the culture that got small.

If she had lived, she could've gone on to play Mrs. Roper on Three's Company.

I don't know. Her legend is greater than her actual talent is my opinion. She certainly did not have vocal control or consistency required to make her a great singer. Her vibrato was so out of control that it instantly dates ANYTHING she sings. Sounds like some old vaudevillian with that mile wide vibrato. Corny and over emotive. She had some great vocal qualities and real dynamism as a performer.

Whitney's voice will live forever, as her "legacy" and sad story already begin to fade away. Because her voice was perfection and so very beautiful as well. Garland is for biographers to recount her triumphs and people who used to read those books. Because her work is pleasant and charming and sometimes powerful. But no modern person sees "The World's Greatest Singer" there. She's an anachronism.

There are many better singers, before and after Judy Garland. Some of her black and white TV spots are pretty dynamic portrayals of a strung out star on the edge of a nervous breakdown. Her voice was warm and full. People need more than a powerful voice now to be impressed. Garland was not in control of her talent. Could Judy sing it as beautifully and accomplished as this? Hell no.

This clip from her film I Could Go On Singing proves the acting chops she had. Please to notice it is in almost done in one take. ONE take.

[quote]Garland was not in control of her talent.

Really?

See above or below.

It's pathetic to see some people on threads like this one so proud of their ignorance and calling everyone old. So you don't know her? well, is not exactly hard to get information this days, educates yourself.

Granted it was 1954, but A Star is Born was no picnic in the woods.

And yet...

[quote]Whitney's voice will live forever,

Except she will be remember mostly for this. LOL

That was pretty bad R152. All her over used mannerisms are there - but she hasn't the voice to warrant the deployment of them. The hugging herself, strident walk and arm shot in the air - I barely know her work, but she this shit all the time. Must have started out a bit honest but in the end it was to cover up her vocal and personal inadequacies. Get old fags cheering. She looked a wreck too. And that was filmed over and over and prerecorded? Not good. What a sad woman. She started out with something.

*but she did this shit all the time...

She’s a rare performer that is totally at ease in front of an audience

But she did that before all the people who fallowed copied it. That's the difference. Like a Jackson Pollock painting, people say it's just paint splatters and "I could do that" the difference is, you did not invent that, or start that trend, or become the best at that style.

Yes Streisand, Eydie Gorme & Shirley Bassey copied Garland. They were all cheesy drag queen performers too. Better singers than Garland though.

This is, without a doubt, the STUPIDEST DL thread EVER. Ignorant, deplorable nitwits abound.

Garland Callas Piaf Dietrich

I mean, they were indelible then—and will always be so. You don’t have to “like” them, but the artistry is undeniable. And to suggest otherwise shows you to be a myopic, ignorant twat.

[quote]but she hasn't the voice to warrant the deployment of them.

You're too short for that critique R156.

[quote]And that was filmed over and over and prerecorded?

No one said that it was recorded over and over. And lip-synching to pre-recorded music is standard in film, television and sometimes done in theater or concerts.

I learned this from living in London: it's a relief not to be the drunkest or highest person in the room.

[quote]Yes Streisand, Eydie Gorme & Shirley Bassey copied Garland. They were all cheesy drag queen performers too.

Well sweetie, go stream the latest from Ga-GAH or go FAP your WAP and let us old people enjoy true talent.

[quote]I learned this from living in London: it's a relief not to be the drunkest or highest person in the room.

Or have the worst teeth.

R1 Well said.

If you must praise that performance R163, at least listen to her do it better here. Live and apparently sober. Not free of throat drying speed though. But much more in control of herself. You're welcome.

What da fuck is a piaf? Sounds like carby rice dish lolzers. I asked earlier but nobody gave me no answer. So what is it?

[quote]One day he made it very clear: He has no idea what happened in the world before 1976 (when he was born) and isn't about to become interested. And I think that's pretty much how it is in general, in America anyway.

I doubt it, R145. I don't know how many subscribers TCM has but I would't be surprised if a sizable chunk are under 40, although it probably is true that women and gay men are more likely to be interested in old movies than straight guys.

I hope you're joking, r169

R150, Heather Headley is a talented performer. I enjoyed her very much in AIDA and THE COLOR PURPLE. But that was not an intelligent rendition of the song. It was meant to impress not to communicate the meaning or feeling of the song.

r169 Do you regret anything at all?

Heather Headley is ten times the vocalist that Judy Garland was. Headley is so very gifted with an astounding voice. THE END.

^^ Nice of you to chime in, Heather.

Someone once told me because she feels "our" pain. What horseshit!

First & foremost, Judy Garland is a gay man!

As we compare other singers to Judy Garland, perhaps we should ask ourselves if those singers will be discussed more than half a century after their deaths?

She's only still discussed because she was the type of tragic self absorbed person that many gay men of a certain age identify with. Has zero to do with her perceived talent. If not for her personal issues, she'd have been long forgotten.

r179, you are insane.

The gays have odd choices for their icons. Garland, a pill popping, needy, narcissistic drama queen. Crawfford, a violent, narcissistic, hypersexual child abuser. Minelli, a narcissistic insecure drama queen. You boys should really choose more wisely. Unless of course there's some reason you identify with them.

R154 woah that final belt! THAT'S how I know I'm hopelessly, irretrievably gay. It gave me goosebumps, and I gasped.

I ADORE Judy Garland. God help me, I do.

Me, too. I'm a proud Judy fan. Her voice in the early years: unbelievable. In the later years: it doesn't have the quality it had, but instead there is a power and a comprehension of what it takes to convey a song. After 1964, her performances become more erratic. But in the years prior to that, she's incredible. Even as a teenager, she had incredible talent. I ignore the naysayers.

She was an embarrassment as often as a triumph. Lots of singers know what it takes to convey a song. Garland couldn't even do that later in life. Her voice was long gone, and so too was her "talent."

R13 and r19 had a low grade bitch fight.

This performance by Judy Garland took place at a benefit at Lincoln Center seven months before her death. She is pretty damn great.

Sorry to burst your bubble, never cared for her..well, one movie, "Shop Around the Corner" (not for her, but for "Cuddles")..that nervous delivery of hers like she's ready to explode. Don't have any recordings and her daughter, well, the less said, the better.

R187, we don't care if you care for her. FYI, that was Margaret Sullavan in SHOP AROUND THE CORNER. Judy and "Cuddles" were in the musical version, IN THE GOOD OLD SUMMERTIME.

(188) I'm well aware that it was a musical, and adaption of the earlier Shop Around the Corner...that business with the pigeons in her hat, her hair and Van Johnson as hammy as ever, still did not change my opinion..you can have her nervous twitch, that croak in her voice..with all her problems she never considered quitting .

Meet Me Inside Louis is a gay, double penetration masterpiece.

Not to defend anybody, but I'll go out on a limb and guess most Americans couldn't tell you who was president before George W. Bush, which side- North or South- the US was on during that war, much less who Judy Garland was. It doesn't mean she was second-rate or inconsequential.

Huh? What a ridiculous defense of Judy Garland R191. If that's what it is. People know who Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald are. Nat King Cole and Peggy Lee. Whitney Houston and Elvis Presley. Diana Ross and The Supremes. Because their music remains relevant on soundtracks and in TV shows. Their sound makes people look them up and research. The Crown's use of Angel Eyes by Ella made the world pay attention. Gorgeous recordings by distinctive vocalists with real style. Judy Garland and her worse daughter are not people we can listen to without watching. If you did - you'd be mighty disappointed. Very flawed voices and over emotive singing. They were better performers than singers, so the singing alone evokes nothing but corniness and vaudeville. Are Bernadette Peters or Patti LuPone recording stars of note? No. Some voices are gone when they're gone. Garland's voice was gone for a decade before she left. It's an acquired taste to start with. Not to say that she wasn't a dynamic and very talented performer. But George W Bush and the North winning are remembered.

Words have meaning. How did "not to defend anybody" become to mean I'm defending anybody, much less Judy Garland? My husband, who is 44, has only vaguely heard of Sinatra, but neither Peggy Lee, Nat King Cole, and I could throw in Mel Torme, Jack Jones, and Dick Haymes, nor the greatest female interpreter of popular music of all time, Ella. We watched a movie and he asked, "Which one is Doris Day?" He is no idiot; as I write this, he is taking apart his computer and putting together a better one. (That's why I have some free time.) But, as it is often the case, he has no interest in history, and to him, history means anything that happened before he was born. That is how it is. A disgustingly underfunded and careless public education system didn't help matters in shaping his taste and world view.

You know why Tony Bennett included Lady Gaga in his act? Because he knows most people now have no clue who he is. I'll go all Joe Biden and plagiarize this line from a Sinatra hit, and tell you this: wake up to reality.

I'm younger than you and your imaginary husband. My point is that some long dead artists are still heard in modern formats. And sometimes their voices or the recording themselves make people take note. This is not lost on your husband. It pertains to any kind of music that people haven't heard before, if they like it when they're unexpectedly exposed. From Billie Holiday to The Bangles. My point is and was, that the voice of Judy Garland may be used somewhere in the background of something for some reason - but it would not make anyone seek her out. It's a vibrato heavy blaring voice. A theatrical device that could never be used in any other context. Other than Over the Rainbow - what song did she ever sing that others (including Ella, Peggy Lee, Sinatra, Nat, Natalie or Tony Bennett) did not sing better & in much better taste. Garland is corny as fuck. As is Gaga btw.

Tony Bennett has proclaimed KD Lang as the Best Singer Ever. He also proclaimed ARETHA as the best singer EVER. He is on Biographies proclaiming Judy Garland as the BEST singer EVER. He also said that Amy WINEHOUSE was the best singer EVER. He sang with all of them and he's a whore. GAGa was also the BEST SINGER EVER. But when Whitney died, he said that she had the most beautiful voice her ever heard. He never recorded with her. He didn't call her the best singer. He said she had the most beautiful voice. And so she did. Tony Bennett is a whore.

Words do have meaning. In fact AND in how they are used. Anyone who enters a conversation with

[quote]Not to defend anybody

is about to defend somebody.

*sometimes their voices or the recording itself - make people take note.

You know how big a dunce-schmuck you are? I've waited 17 years to tie the knot, and you call my better half imaginary. Oh, gosh... that hurt! As Dr. Smith used to wail on Lost In Space, "The pain... oh, the PAIN." I'm assuming every time you wrote in caps, your voice got more dramatic. Yes, I just live to fool people about myself; that's what keeps me going during the pandemic. Your point, as you explained it, is pure, unalloyed nonsense. You're an idiot. Or, as it is usually written on the internet: your an idiot.

I had many points. None of them idiotic. We are talking about Judy Garland and you chose to interject out of nowhere about who was president before George W Bush? Then you rambled on about Tony Bennett and Lady Gaga as some excuse for why Judy Garland can't sing by modern standards. She can't. I've never heard of Lost in Space, but I hope your *husband* returns. They usually do, at your age.

I am BIG, it's true. Not much a dunce. I'm sorry you are so easily threatened and called out R191, R193, R196. I didn't raise my voice at all. You seem very upset though. PTSD?

You've ranted about the underfunded education system, Lady Gaga, the north and the south and bad spelling on the internet! Sit your son/husband down and teach him a few things. Play this:

You are missing the big picture R197, the OP asked why is Judy Garland so beloved by "the gays". Many have posted their reasons here, you seem to be fixated on the literal value of her voice as if sales are the only metric of value. Love is not a value that can be bought and sold or easily explained for that matter. Just because you don't like her music, or a specific age demographic does not know who she is mean she is irrelevant in the bigger social picture. It just means that age demo is ill-informed. Gen Z doesn't even know who Madonna is. Do they have to like her music? No, but should the at least know her name if they are interested in music? Yes, if they want to seem like informed adults. Just like Elvis Presley, James Dean and Marilyn Monroe were all dead before I was born, I still know who they are.

[quote] First & foremost, Judy Garland is a gay man!

And he was Black, too!

R197 Judy Garland is my favorite singer and all-around female entertainer; only Sinatra is her male equal. Ella is better, but Judy's my favorite, and I've been a devoted fan since childhood. We already know I'm old. Well, I watched her show when they were first broadcast. My only point, that sailed over your head, (and it wasn't like climbing the Matterhorn), was that younger people either never heard of her or vaguely heard of her, and that's how it is about many other topics as well. And that's all. What I said wasn't terribly complex. Also, I didn't point out anyone's misspelling; I pointed out the usual internet bad grammar. Now then... I don't know how you accomplish this, but you even write with a lisp. And right now, moron, one internet asshole is telling a total stranger, "You seem upset; take your meds." Generally not at a loss for words, I must confess I'm running out of ways to call you stupid, but you get the idea.

R200. I don't have a lisp gramps. That's some ancient white fag affliction. The type who weep over Judy Garland. Your posts speak for themselves. They were not difficult to understand. Just nonsensical and extremely defensive. I wish you peace.

Gay men are lucky to have their stalwart iconic figures to worship in solidarity.

Dykons aren’t as widely and fiercely lauded, and don’t really bring lesbians together in the same way. Which fallen star do we adore? Gertrude Stein? Dusty Springfield? Billie Jean King? Gia Carangi?

The internet tells me that Marie Antoinette is considered the first, which I find hard to believe. It also tells me that teen lesbians of now idolises frog videos on Tiktok, for some reason. Truly this is a cultural wasteland.

When two people start attacking each other on Datalounge, I give up hope that this site can be interesting. Could everyone just take a step back and calm down? People are allowed to have different opinions. Also, they are allowed to be unpleasant in their attacks on one another. But it is annoying and saddening to read such attacks.

Younger people may not know who Bette Davis and Barbara Stanwyck were, but that's to their detriment. They are still of historical significance and always will be. Same with Garland. Denigrate her all you want, but her legend isn't going anywhere.

When Judy was at the height of her fame she was plagued by headlines about her personal struggles. Her oscar nominated A Star Is Born, was to be her adult aged acting return...it sure was. Even then the Academy team was political and is still political....about as bad as Trump...look at Weinstien's filthy tricks to hold everone by the balls squeezing so he's get his way. Judy was a tragic character...she was a survivor. She made public statements that were "controversial" at the time. She was even put on the spot on a talk show whren asked about how she feels about "homosexuals" loving her and selling out her concerts.... to the interviewer saying she loves her audiences and doesn't care about homosexuals...she'll be damned if anyone comes after her audiences.***.continued next post******

In the recent movie with Rene' Zellwiger, there was a subplot about her having a friendly relationship with a gay couple...it was based on many true events over her lifetime. She spoke about lonliness and loss and every ugly headline about her and what that does to a lady in her position being manipulated by her mother, lb mayer, her husbands etc....Near the end of her life she was often a guest on the late show circuit and she was brutally honest, shockingly hilarious about her traumas, her quick respones to difficult questions with such wit...and she never was cruel about the stars she grew up with but she did hilarious impressions of her classmates on mgm's schoolhouse...elizabeth taylor and her breathy speaking voice, lana turner with her perfect bleached blond hair etc...she wasn't cruel she was pointing out that she was this brown haired, brown eyed, gawky pupecent girl on a strict diet that had her big boobs tied down for her to play a young kid at age 16ish for wizard of oz. She was the biggest studio bread winner and she sufferred the effects of the suits medicating, threatining, bullying etc talented stars into a human machine with pills and non stop 3 films a year ****continued*****

She was publicly shamed by such statements as her beautiful voice comes from a homely little hunchback girl...too bad she was as pretty as...fill in the blank. She was married to 2 gay men, Minelli and David Rose, her dad was gay...she adored the affection gay guys gushed over her non stop. She never puplicly spoke about her 2 sisters that knew what their Mum was doing to her yet they never helped her, her dad died when she had this big radio performance, If you think of a group of people being marginalized, shamed, lonely outcasts other than racial discrimination, you have "the gays^ Her whole carrer gay guys filled her audience performence seats always selling out venues. She loved gay guys publicly and in turn gays loved her it was a romance and both sides never failed each other....Gays have always been threatened, forced to change their natural tendecies, loving each other would throw them in jail and publicly brand them and they would be shunned but, gays never gave up...that grit we have is a lot like Judy's story....gays and Judy ALWAYS got back up after being bashed and faced a scary world...My adopted Mum in California is whom I came out to when I was dating a famous guy. I asked why did I only have sex with girls even though guys were more my type....i was an actor, I could sing, I was doing social work for aids causes in the 90s when guys were homebound alone and shamed....She said, baby it's in the bible...gay people were created to bring beauty to the world...then she listed a ton of famous gay guys from artists to singers and actors to fashion designers, perfume creators, home designe etc....and she was right. Both Judy and gay people suffered similar feelings of lonliness, fear, disowned, shamed etc...Its funny, well...not funny. My ex that I mentioned is still a famous actor. We were highlighted in a tabloid as the most beautiful men. I left the business due to family tragedy but before I left my boyfriend and I would accept invitations to the "pool party" pigs of the generation and extended a helping hand to the fragile innocents. I was blackmailed along with my boyfriend but, my retaliation was I know who arranged and paid for the photographer to snap nudes of my bf and I in my private, fenced and tree lined pool that was only visible from atop a rocky cliff near Point Dume with a telescopic lens. I also reminded the men in suits that crimes of exploiting boys at pool parties at x, y and z's homes is worth headliines unless they stopped. I returned after a long hiatus for a few parts, I still modeled for different colognes and my ex is still single and I have my guy for over 10 years. Vanessa Carlton sang with Stevie Nicks on a song called "The One' it was about a couple that belonged together but were apart...,even though they found true love again...they always were reminded of 'the one' The last big gay cult singers mostly gained gay audience support by publicly voicing their support and love...like madonna and lady gaga....To this day, ask any queer guy over 40 about Judy Garland, she was gone before I came along but Jr high, old tv movies and documentaries on my grandmothers tv, my aunt's 45s of over the rainbow and the man that got away, the vcr of a star is born, the re-release in theaters after returning the parts that were cut out...etc....I found another soldier at heart in life that showed me how to march on with grace. Funny side note...Judy Garlands speaking voice, like my grandmothers was almost similar to the queen's english with the american accent...Judy's real speaking voice was eloquent and emotive as a real woman of royalty and grace but the oxymoron is she was so humble and self depricating it is amazing to watch on youtube.

I see that Whitbot/R150 has entered this thread and shat all over it the place with his nonsense. Judy Garland wasn't a great vocalist, but he was in a Diana Ross thread recently singing her praises that she's a excellent vocalist. 😂

I'm now waiting for this elder black queen from Saskatchewan to accuse me of being "Miss Warwicke" and how I'm an ancient white fag (he's such a narcissist he thinks he's the only black person who posts here at DL).

Miss Warwicke is banned from this site. You must be charlie, R208? No one is from Saskatchewan. Regardless, Judy Garland only has a few living fans on Datalounge. It's nice that they remember her so fondly.

R207, David Rose was gay?!?!?

I read and post something on a thread like this, then stay away from it because it makes me mad. Personally, I knew no other gays who liked her, the two gay friends I had in high school, one was more into heavy metal and the other was into classical and opera. I had a friend who's a straight girl, who loved her. (no, not a fag hag lol) And my mom loved her, and my dad, to some extent. They saw her show once, my grandfather saw her in an outdoor concert, once.

Anyhow it was just personal for me, I couldn't have cared less that she was "beloved by The Gays". I didn't even know that. Not until I read some biography of her when I was about 19 or 20. I just really enjoyed her acting, her movies, her records, and that's it. I also liked and like her looks. The way she tells a story, her interaction with other actors on stage on on screen. I've been a performer, myself, and man if I could have a hundredth of whatever she had, I'd be thrilled. People comparing her to Whitney Houston. Dude you totally miss the point, like, it sailed over your head by a mile.

And yeah people under 60, or 40, know Meet Me In St. Louis my little cousins (girls) have the dvd and have seen it hundreds of times.

I like this a lot. Recorded live on set with a very simple (mostly piano) accompaniment.

Her last movie role she was nominated for this too. Her acting moved me as much as her singing.

This is one of my favorite songs she recorded...it makes me cry and gives me chills....this was recorded for an album she never completed near the end of her life. She performs an individual character in each dramatic song...her acting, especially in a star is born when she utterly loses her shit crying, hitting herself, pulling at her hair because the true love of her life is self destructing and all the love in the world won't save an addict....I watch that movie to get all my dark feelings out.

PS...I'm the guy that gushed over Juey in 3 posts for my story. I see some people remark that "the gays" weren't the reason he liked her and the favorite music wasn't in the judy genre...etc...OK, I grew up with my grandmother and ny siblingsd and I never mixrd well. I love Johnny Cash, Elvis, Conway Twitty, Loretta Lynn, Fleetwood Mac, Stevie Nicks, Heart, Boston, Poison, Nina Hagen etc....I amn all over the place. i grew up among other males of all age because I was a swimmer and I played right wing in ice hockey, I showered with guys of all ages and it wadn't until I was in Hollywood when a short tern co star kept hitting on me in the men's shared shower near our individual dressing rooms. i did a few dumb soaps like most actors with a heavy duty agent to prove you can memorize, work with last minute changes, play 2 characters on the same episodes, rewrites etc...and still look good. Thatt's how I found out cute guys give great head and my eyes were open to a whole new world of hotness right at my prime...19 year old blond guy with a natural buff body from sports, deep voice red lips and white teeth.. I was just like the guy next to me but the blond thing always paid....I know it sounds dunb. Anyway, I did "guy" things but I didn't go find Judy because of the gay thing....I discovered her like most gays and the more you find out about here life and performances I couldn't get enough...also, I didn't hide the fact that I thought she was the coolest. LIving with My Irish Catholic gtandmother that wass born into wealth but when she was 8 or so her dad died and she and her siblings with her Mum were put on the curb, she married well for love breaking rules becasue her family name didn't look good with her husbands....her marriage was ruined by outsiders and she alone raised 5 kids that all did well then she had me...she and my uncle were my role models. I wasn't aware until about jr high that because I grew up with the kennedy kids I spoke differently and had doors opened for me...and on the flip side I was bullied alot. My grandmother was a crazy maid/cook/family member....she knew about everythinh that had to do with wealth ie...paintings, carpets, clothes and shoes, ettiquete etc...she knew thee story behind famous paintings especialy japanese folk tales that were painted on to china and woven mosaic's. I was treated like a real family member unlioke my real brothers and sisters....So...that's how i found Judy and if you were vurious about guys or were different you were labeled gay as a shameful branding...I was in public school for a 1/2 year in my Jr year....I was ushered into early college courses and along with a handful of other kids we were excelling at Emerson College while in high school. I worked my qss off...I was torn from the love of my life that happens to be famous to this very day....I love my partner, my SAG name comes up connected to him along with my birth name and my history pops up in gossip colums. I'mn even mentioned on this site. It's covid....It's my partner and me. I took care of my Mum and she recently died, my nana died 5years ago almosst 100 years old. dumb side note about a weird pary of my life.Anyone grow up Irish Catholic with a nana from the old world....it's very different from standard Catholic and it acualllu breaks rules both ways....undoing hexes and removing bad banshee luck from items, flower and herb recipeis made to enchant and protect mixed with Hail Mary's and Goddess Brigid from Ireland who is also St Brigid...you heal and work charms and make talismanss by using rushes or thick grass to weave into brigids crosses. I speak fluent classic latin....and I freak people out by working a blessing with sea salt and lily of the valley flower petals poured around them from a gunny sack while invoking saints in latin....if you act scary they think your hexing them. truth is, people hex and curse thenselves. you are what you do,

Write a book.

I've written 3. 2 non fiction and one fiction. 2 became best sellers. ha! thanks though....I'm covid losing my mind!

And there you have it. R215. The stereotypical Garland fan. Delusional and tasteless. A liar. Sad old fag.

Why do heterosexuals go wild over every boring basic banal butt rock group since the death of disco?

Because she had a HUGE cock, Rose.

Judgment at Nuremberg was not her last film. That would be I Could Go on Singing.

Is your degree from The Copacabana School of Dramatic Art, R45?

Judy Garland, like her remaining gay fans, makes people cringe a bit. A lot. She was talented when she was young. She could have made the Mickey Mouse club if she kept her weight down. The worship of her - along with so many of the examples "of her genius" posted here - only evoke pity. What you see isn't really there. Sorry old gays.

This thread has gone above and beyond it’s stated boundaries.

She bought me a Chevy Impala.

Judy's last home was a Chevy Impala.

[quote] Is your degree from The Copacabana School of Dramatic Art, [R45]?

No, but mine is.

Making Dorothy black makes the Wicked Witch's death justifiable homicide.

Making Dorothy white makes it a hate crime.

Poor R209. Poor AND a liar AND ugly AND "speshul."

I'll be at the Inauguration celebrating after cleaning up some legacies back on the sixth. White crazies are so easy to turn into lynch mobs. Bang!

Until then, kisses. And watch for me on the Tweeter thing.

I apologize for not reading through all the posts but I am interested in why The Gays love / hate specific people for not apparently reason. I like Judy, she was a great talent, but do The Gays like her simply because she's an easy target to mimic?

R78, she's the poster child for fetal alcohol syndrome. Or in politer terms, at least you don't have to worry about her looking both ways before crossing a street.

I can't speak for others but, for me, it was because she was ugly, or at least she was told she was ugly. Louis B Meyer called her his "ugly little hunchback". Due to the nature of the business she was forced into by her not-so-nice mother, her appearance, her was pored over, examined to the nth degree, ridiculed and generally put down. Garland wasn't ugly. Granted, she did not have the same types of looks had by her MGM coworkers such as Lana Turner or Elizabeth Taylor but there was nothing more real and more honest and more lovely than Garland's face when she smiled. There was such heart, such kindness, such tender and fragile humanity behind that smile.

I have never been told I was ugly but I have been told that what I am is ugly, what I do is ugly, my so-called "lifestyle" is ugly. This is why I have such admiration for Judy Garland.

Good points R145, but I'd lower that age to anyone under 50.

OP, why are Eminem, Britney Spears and other white trash degenerates loved by breeders?