The Station Nightclub Fire in RI

Listening to bad heavy metal was their first mistake.

At the concert, pyrotechnics were set off and ignited the acoustic foam surrounding the stage. The crowd was over capacity, and exits were not clearly marked. In general, fires can spread quickly, so if you're ever indoors during a fire, your one and only objective is to GTFO immediately. Don't waste one second collecting possessions.

So scary how fast that fire spread! Very sad; those poor people.

All of that 80s hair with Aqua Net didn't help matters

I had never heard of the Bradford City Stadium fire (1985) until I watched this today.

This incident made me deathly afraid of indoor concerts

Pyrotechnics indoors is a stupid idea.

The announcer did an amazing job of keeping the running commentary going.

R2 is so right. And it’s not usually the fire that gets you. It’s the inhalation of smoke and chemicals released when shit is burning that makes you pass out. Then you can’t get out and the fire gets you.

Call me stupid but how did they get logjammed at the door?

R10, someone apparently tripped and fell, starting a chain reaction until there was a pile of dozens of people on tope of each other right at the doorway.

Another nightmare Beverly Hill Supper Club In Kentucky 1977

The gay parties in NYC were always oversold, over capacity and crowded. One thing I always did when I went to events upon entry was to do a walk around and note the exits and really try to memorize where they were in relation to lighting, objects or fixtures in the room.

Often these events do “blackout” sequences and use smoke so for me it was always important to be able to know exactly where to head in an emergency. I was trapped once in a throng of people in the West Village during a Halloween parade one year with little supervision and it’s my experience people will freak out easily and the crowd movement becomes wildly unpredictable.

If you fall you’re not getting back up.

I wonder what songs were playing as it burned... and please don’t say some pop crap.

R12 they had supper clubs in Kentucky? 🤯

R14 -- Burnin' for You, Blue Oyster Cult

[quote][R12] they had supper clubs in Kentucky? 🤯

Kentucky's idea of a supper club.

There's a great book called "Killer Show" about the lead-up to the fire, the incident itself, and the aftermath. Devastating. The politics and finances that led to such a disaster.

One thing I have to say about a post-COVID world is I NEVER want to go back to those shoulder-to-shoulder-type concerts. Being so close to another person that they're breathing on you and vice versa was never a good thing; it was almost inhumane. And now occupancy levels will be a must everywhere. I hope I never ever have to read "general admission" on my concert ticket again. And, if a show is designated as "general admission", I will not attend. It was and is absolutely disgusting that promoters and concert venues ever allowed this - whether it was a bar or a stadium.

R10, a lot more people would have lived if they hadn't been turned away by the bouncer at the stage door. He told them it was only for the band and directed them to the front door. There were two other doors - one in the kitchen and one in the bar area, and a few people got out through the latter.

Most of the people who escaped made it out of the front door before the pileup. Almost as many escaped through broken windows in the bar and an area with greenhouse windows at the front of the club.

Flaming fags.

I've seen a lot of disturbing shit on the internet and that full video on youtube of The Station fire ranks way up there.

The Oakland Ghostship fire from a few years ago sounded horrific too.

My mom worked with a guy whose brother was a first responder firefighter at the Station fire. He said his brother was pretty fucked up about it.

The thing that pissed me off was that they made sure the stupid band got out safe. You know, the assholes who thought it would be cool to have indoor pyrotechnics.

[quote] until there was a pile of dozens of people on tope of each other right at the doorway.

Mmmmm. Sounds like a fun Saturday night.

The band didn't get out safe, one of the members died, R22. No one made sure they got out safe, they were on their own like everyone else. Where did you even hear that?

There's a really good lecture about the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire here, from a man who was a teen when it happened and saw some of the aftermath. He wrote a book that I've heard good things about. Very sketchy situation all around with what sounds like a coverup.

And the Up Stairs Lounge fire in 1973.

R5, I remember when that happened. Horrific on all counts, and as I watched the video again I saw all those idiots on the pitch cheering and celebrating, as if it were a great show, and mugging for the cameras, should be ashamed of themselves. This is the England that Americans rarely see -- it ain't all Downton Abbey. Raucous and drunken sports fans are a sizable portion of their populace.

That was my thought, too, R27. Did they not realize the severity of the situation based on how fast the fire was spreading? Even the announcer mentions that he could feel the heat.

If it’s anything us DLers know about, it’s flames! 🔥🔥🔥

[quote] One thing I always did when I went to events upon entry was to do a walk around and note the exits and really try to memorize where they were in relation to lighting, objects or fixtures in the room.

Me too. Back in junior high, in 1970, I did a report on the Cocoanut Grove fire (Boston 1942) where close to 500 people died. One thing I learned is that, unless instructed otherwise, people will naturally try to exit by the same means from which they entered, so if you can keep alternate methods of egress in mind, you're already (so to speak) ahead of the crowd. For months afterward I would wake up in the middle of night, screaming that I was trapped in a burning building. Terrifying stuff for a 12 year old. It's affected my behavior in crowded spaces for 50 years.

As R2 said, in a fire, your primary objective is to get out NOW. Seconds matter. Once the crowd starts to move, you're helpless. Surprisingly, in the case of the Cocoanut Grove fire, women were found dead in front of the coat check. They actually thought they had time to pick up their coats prior to fleeing a burning building.

[quote] If it’s anything us DLers know about, it’s flames!

Heyyyyy.

I’ve seen the Station fire video before and I imagine it looks and sounds like Hell; fire, screaming and chaos.

If you ever want to meet a person who is truly irredeemable evil scum and should be shot in the head for the betterment of humanity, "nightclub owner" and "nightclub bouncer" are right at the top tiers of the list. I have never met one who was not a leering rapey thug who would beat a woman/molest a child/torture an animal for fun. No idea why.

The bartenders and waitstaff tend to be okay.

A Boston channel showed unedited footage of dead bodies inside very early the next morning. They only showed it once TG.

R33, that sounds about right. Bouncer seems to be a profession which attracts a certain douchey type of guy.

What a horrible way to go. Imagine if Great White was the last music you heard? The horror.

[quote]At the concert, pyrotechnics were set off and ignited the acoustic foam surrounding the stage. The crowd was over capacity, and exits were not clearly marked.

It was also pretty dark inside the club.

This is the song they were playing. If the idea was to have the cheesy pyrotechnics in the club mimic the bonfires in the video, well...

The band actually got out quickly but their guitarist went back in to get his guitar and didn’t make it back out.

R32, I thought the same thing, that I had a glimpse of hell. I'm not sure I'm glad I watched the video or not. It did make me appreciate that things can go south very, very quickly once a fire starts.

R30, most people are unaware that a fire can spread faster than people can run.

I think depictions in film and TV have created an idea that a fire stays where it is until the heroine stops screaming and remembers how a door works.

This guy was at the very bottomed of the human pile and survived while he endured people on top of him screaming while being burned alive.

I read Killer Show, which is about the Station Fire. Not only is it harrowing, but the descriptions of the fire and the attempts to escape haunted me for weeks afterwards.

I also need to know where all visible exits are when in an enclosed space; and pre-covid, when going to a club, tried to be as close to an exit as possible.

A friend of mine was on a flight to LA and as it landed there was a small fire on board or on the wing(s) that required an emergency evacuation. He said he's never seen such idiocy as people scrambled to get their bags or shoes. He remembers hearing someone, maybe a crew member, screaming "You stupid motherfucker, get out NOW!" I think you have to be extremely forceful with people as most of us cannot fathom how quickly and how horribly a "small" fire can turn into a catastrophe. To this day, I follow along with crew member instruction and I am hyper-aware of where the exits are.

I was in a fire once, and it really is like r2 and others have described: fire move FAST! I was both in shock and in awe of how it moved.

If it happens, you need to get out NOW. No, don't go grab your purse. Don't go grab your precious pictures. Don't even go grab your phone if it's on the other side of the room. Every second counts because the fire will move faster than you. And the smoke comes at a hurdling speed.

[quote] And the smoke comes at a hurdling speed.

Oh, dear!

This link is to a printed interview about survivor Mike Vargas. I don’t know how he stayed so calm, but he apparently did and it probably saved his life.

[quote]Surprisingly, in the case of the Cocoanut Grove fire, women were found dead in front of the coat check. They actually thought they had time to pick up their coats prior to fleeing a burning building.

Are we sure they didn't become lost in all the smoke and ended up in coat check instead of out the door?

If they'd gone to coat check to get their coats, there would have been a moment where they realized the fire was approaching or they couldn't breathe because of smoke and tried to leave, not just stay in coat check, unless something was blocking them in.

In the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire, some of the doctors and their families who were there for a celebration dinner were found in the bar because they got lost trying to leave in all the smoke. No one ever said "They thought they had time for one more drink!" because that's ludicrous. I feel like the "These ladies thought they had time to get their coats!" is maybe more sexist stereotype than truth.

[quote]The band actually got out quickly

You can see in the video that they're near a couple of doors. The problem was that there was a bouncer who wouldn't let patrons leave out that door next to the stage. I don't know why people didn't just overpower the guy but maybe they didn't know how bad it was yet.

Probably, r49.

For one, they probably would have in hindsight, but it’s like the first lifeboats to leave the Titanic. No one believed the ship would sink and thought they were safer on the big ship than a little lifeboat.

They were dead wrong.

It’s like people that have a kitchen fire and just think, “oh, I’ll just run to the closet and get the fire extinguisher.”

When you see fire, you RUN. Don't stop to take anything with you, don't second guess anything, just get to the nearest door or window and GTFO of there.

R35, I think of them as steroid needledicks too mentally deficient for the police force.

[quote]I don't know why people didn't just overpower the guy

They did, but not before a lot of people turned back.

From [italic]The Station Nightclub Fire – An Analysis of Witness Statements[/italic] — RITA F FAHY, GUYLÈNE PROULX, and JENNIFER FLYNN, of the twenty-three people who exited via the stage door:

[quote]Thirteen people mentioned that a bouncer blocked access to the stage door exit. Some of them passed that way anyway, but others changed direction and attempted to leave by the main door instead.

If you read the witness statements, Scott Vieira wasn’t going to budge. The first people to approach him had to make a split-second decision between using a known exit away from the flames or wasting time arguing with/fighting him to use a door in a wall that was rapidly becoming engulfed. If you enlarge the photo below you can see the stage door’s proximity to the source of the fire.

In hindsight, it was the wrong choice but it helps to remember that only nineteen seconds elapsed from the time the pyrotechnics were set off to the time the fire began traveling across the ceiling, not to mention the toxic black smoke from the burning egg-crate plastic.

Over and over again, people’s first impulse is to leave the way they came in, and flames always trump smoke even though smoke inhalation is the main killer.

Didn’t Scott Vieira’s wife die R53 in the fire? What happened to him in the aftermath?

Kelly Viera did indeed die in the fire. No idea what happened to Scott - he denied blocking egress, but numerous people said otherwise.

I don’t know what happened to him. I can’t imagine he would have stuck around in RI.

To this day he gets a pass because his wife died and people writing about the fire continue to tread lightly in spite of his bullshit about how he doesn’t remember anything about the night, only that he didn’t block the door. Oh, and he also has a detailed recollection of going around seeking people out to direct them to that door and if it hasn’t been for him, soooo many more would have died.

His story is in direct contradiction to the numbers - everyone’s location at the fire’s start has been confirmed - but apparently the witnesses telling the exact same story don’t count because he’s also a victim. Boo hoo.

RIP to these poor people but don't they look outdated for 2003?

Maybe a little r57, but a lot of those photos are high school senior pics that were taken years before. Also, most of the victims were blue collar people who didn’t pay much attention to current trends. The younger victims all have current looks for that time.

We're also talking Great White fans. There was plenty of '80s hair in that crowd.

From an old Providence Journal article with a now-dead link:

“I guess what I’m asking you, forget the fire for a minute . . . . did you ever have to direct anyone out of the very area you were controlling?”

“Not that I recall,” Vieira said.

In fact when the fire broke out, Vieira said he was directing people toward the stage door. But most appeared driven to escape the way they had come in — through the front door.

The band, “They were out of there like Jack Flash, they were out of there probably in seconds, and then I went, yelled into the pool room area trying to get people out, to come that way, and everybody was rushing toward the front door, and I was screaming, ‘Come on people, you gotta come this way.’ ”

Vieira said he left through the stage door and then reentered the club to get people out.

“I seen it wasn’t as bad as it ended up being so I went in and I called some more people and I got, like I said maybe a dozen, 15 more people out that I know wouldn’t have made it out unless I went back in and got them … .”

This is like a tragic Mark Wahlberg film that never got released.

Small towns and rural areas are always a bit behind current trends. Back in the early 2000s it wasn't uncommon to see people who were still rocking late 80s/early 90s hairstyles.

Speaking of nightclub fires, did any of you see "Collective" yet? It's an amazing documentary about government corruption from Romania.

Nobody gives a fuck about Romania.

R64's response was so abruptly pissy (yet true!) I chortled.

People from Rhode Island still have 80s hair.

I think people who are not familiar with Rhode Island think the whole state is like Newport used to be, i.e. rich WASPs. WRONG! RI is mostly regular middle class and blue collar towns. Providence is kind of a dump. It's not Vanderbilts and Rockefellers in their seaside mansions, believe me.

The club owner or one of them served prison time for paying off the fire inspector..ver Rhode Islam IYKWIM

^very Rhode Island

RI has a lot of mafia.

R64 & R65, typical Americans. Your Golden Girls VHS tapes could use a dusting.

Warwick isn’t rural or a small town. Because RI is so small, the breakdown is more like — Providence; extended suburbs of Providence; coastal areas; and actual small towns, which are tiny and WASPy.

Warwick falls into the suburban and coastal categories. Before Emerald Square in Attleboro, MA and the hellhole that is Providence Place existed, people from all over RI went to Warwick for the mall. They also went there for Rocky Point, which was an oceanside amusement park.

As far as the people who lived there at the time of the fire, there was a heavy blue-collar demographic made up of Italians, Portuguese, and French-Canadians. The kind of people who who spent too much money on scratch tickets and at Foxwoods because they knew they were going to be locked into shitty jobs, raising too many kids, for the rest of their lives.

They would have been thrilled to see a band they remembered from their carefree, headbanging youth at the Station, ten minutes from home, which was more known for local metal bands and tribute acts.

r71 this thread is not about YOU.

Warwick has a small town mentality, though. Fashions, the people etc. It's not cosmopolitan at all.

So it was both owners convicted...they put in flammable insulation as soundproofing. And someone in or with the band for lighting pyrotechnics.

I live about 4 miles from there. It was one of those small places that had been a restaurant that failed,then turned hands a few times as a dive bar. Not a big place. I remember hearing so many sirens that night and wondering what was going on. My friend was a fire chief in a different town and went to help find his sister in law’s brother and the brothers wife. They didn’t make it. Horrible.

Warwick is a town that’s pretty spread out. Some million dollar homes and some not so great. This wasn’t in the upper class section and was about 1/4 from West Warwick, an old mill town. People there still have perms.

When I was a kid in the '80's, there were several mega-hotel fires where many died. My dad told me that it was because the "new" buildings were steel frames w wallboard; they weren't like the old construction of bricks & concrete.

He said if I was ever in an office bldg or hotel and there was a fire, to GET OUT. He said the steel would melt and collapse and I'd get trapped.

I was 10 blocks north of the World Trade Center on 9/11. After staring at the burning towers for 10mins, my thinking brain turned on, and I remembered what he said. I thought the top of the towers would melt & bend & fall to the ground, and possibly hit a gas main, causing an explosion. So I walked north. The steel frame did melt and instead collapsed in on itself.

IF YOU ARE EVER IN A BLDG AND FIRE STARTS, NO MATTER HOW SMALL, GET OUT.

Only on Datalounge would such a serious subject devolve into talking about outdated hair

From what I hear about Bradford, it needed to burn down more than it did to get rid of the vermin.

There were some mullets and mall bangs in that crowd fer sure

What's a zoomer?

In the early 2000s, 80s perms with big crusty bangs were still being rocked in lower class areas.

Hell r83 I still see women of a certain age with Farrah hair.

What was that nightclub fire where the people got wedged in the door trying to escape? '

That is so terrifying.

[quote]It was one of those small places that had been a restaurant that failed,then turned hands a few times as a dive bar.

A partial history:

It opened in 1946 as Casey’s, a dinner and dancing place with an orchestra. That only lasted for a year.

The Wheel — a bar mainly for Quonset Point sailors

For almost two decades it changed hands constantly with nothing lasting for more than a couple of years. And then...

Papa Brillo’s — a local restaurant chain

Glenn’s Pub — a quiet restaurant and lounge, and the last time there would be peace in the neighborhood. A new owner bought the building promising to keep it basically the same but with more of a sports-bar theme. That never happened. Instead, it was reopened as...

CrackerJacks — a live music venue with endless noise complaints

The Filling Station — same format, same complaints, new name

And finally in 2000 the Derderians bought it and shortened the name to The Station.

It occurs to me that some people probably "dressed 80s" to attend the concert.

Warwick has some great architecture.

The club looked like it was in the middle of nowhere.

Vieira's testimony and interviews never made a lot of sense to me, R60. I wonder if he just doesn't remember because of the panic at the time or if he's not telling the truth. You can see in the video that no one is at that side stage door just moments after the fire broke out, it was empty and no one was even near it, let alone back there trying to get people out.

Witnesses Donna and Brenda Cormier said that the fire started so fast that an entire wall was on fire before anyone else in her group even noticed it, it was literally just a couple of seconds, but people were already trying to leave by then, lots of people went to get out the second they saw flames, and they still weren't fast enough to get out.

[quote]“The man that had been standing at – he was a staffer – he’d been standing at the door for considerable amount of the evening, put his hand, uh, a couple of the band members went off the stage directly in front of us, they were heading out the door, and the staff man put his arm up and said, “You have to use the other exit.””

[quote]Donna was tempted to stop, but her husband Bruce swore at the staffer, asking “Are you an idiot?” and pushed the family out through the door.

[quote]Michael Iannone was also standing on that side of the stage, and also made for the stage door first.

[quote]“I was grabbed by someone I believe to be an employee of The Station nightclub. He said “Band only exit.” At the same time he pushed me back into the crowd...

Knowing that it was a band employee who wouldn't let people out the stage door makes me finally understand why that person earlier in the thread said that the band getting out so quickly pissed him off. I don't know if it was Vieira who wouldn't let people out the door or not, but someone certainly blocked the exit.

What's happening in this photo?

There's a series of images from those few moments r91, someone captioned them trying to figure out what was going on.

Please tell me that bouncer died.

R83 That style is preferred among the unsophisticated, uneducated rural Arizonan to this day! Are you kidding? There’s fresh mullets, complete lack of taste, Walmart goodwill fashions, ALL of it. There still ranges from Manson Family to Country Gothic of the 1960s Appalachia all the way to the hairspray 80s. Some of them are into 90s metal but it’s ALL wrangler jeans, ALL of it. It’s like they don’t even own television sets. They have no idea what is current. I think maybe in a few years we will see the fat, toothless women going in for “the Rachel” haircut, THAT’S how sick and backwards it is here where I stay. It’s 40,000ish about 40minutes from an interstate and it’s just truly shocking to my sensibility and aesthetic and sometimes I cry.

Sometimes you’ll see a redneck woman trying to dress up or something and she’s legit wearing a butterfly collar or a polyester bellbottom. Plus a mullet hard as a helmet with hairspray. And then they forget the shoes, it will be like a Payless tennis shoe. LOL. Perfume smelling like a nightmare. Jovan musk maybe. And they drive into town from some dusty trailers outside town. Defiant attitudes.

Some womans screams "where is my husband!" at some point. Chilling.

R5 was horrifying, and more so for the lads-day-out behavior of those closest to the cameras. I must admit I was surprised how high the death toll was - it looked as if everybody climbed to safety but that turned out not to be the case - so perhaps they were unaware of the danger people were in? The image of the man in flames was terrible - so awful that he died in hospital.

This is the memorial park while it was under construction For some reason it's hard to find a photo that shows the entire thing. The circles are supposed to look like records with a 45 adapter in the middle of each of the round benches. The markers surrounding them have a photo of each of the victims.

The back wall of the building is a timeline with 11:07, the time the pyrotechnics were set off, on a black tile. The gray ones surrounding it go through the history of the site and of the fire itself — as in "3 hours before - free tickets were given away; 40 seconds after - Jack Russell leaves through the stage door; 5 minutes after - the first fire engine arrives." — and everything that came after. It also marks fires such as the Cocoanut Grove and Ghost Ship. The last square just says "Today - Remember."

The lead singer got a facelift only a few years later.

I was obsessed with this fire for a few months back in 2016 or so. I live in Boston and I had to drive down to the site and everything. This was shortly before they started the memorial. The site was cleared and fenced off but there were lots of flowers even 13 years later. Not sure why I was so transfixed by this tragedy but I was definitely obsessed.

It is literally my nightmare. I already knew about the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire when The Station fire occurred. Years before this happened, friends would make fun of me because I always checked to see where the exits were when I entered any place. I had read about the shooting at the McDonald's in San Ysidro, Calif. when I was young. That, more than fire, was the reason I always looked for exit signs.

The video at r5 is terrifying. The guy near the end walking away while consumed in flames is awful.

[quote] I feel like the "These ladies thought they had time to get their coats!" is maybe more sexist stereotype than truth.

From John Esposito's' book FIRE IN THE GROVE:

[quote] Joyce (Spector) was worried about her brand-new $800 leopardskin coat, which was in the checkroom on the main floor. She told Justin that she was going to collect her coat and meet him upstairs. "It was just a little fire then, you understand" she would later recall with a trace of guilt.

Joyce's date, Justin Morgan had stayed behind, after the fire had already started, in order to pay the check. He died in the fire.

[quote] Nathan Greer and Kathleen O'Neil had left (the Melody Lounge, where the fire started) just seconds before the danger was generally perceived, and they made it upstairs unscathed. Once upstairs, instead of making for the revolving door, Kathleen ran in the opposite direction toward the back of the foyer. She wanted to get her coat. Kathleen "was taking her time" said Nathan.

[quote] No one ever said "They thought they had time for one more drink!" because that's ludicrous

From Edward Keyes' book COCOANUT GROVE:

[quote] Anne McArdle, am eighteen year-old college sophomore, had excused herself just a minute or two earlier to go upstairs to the powder room, and now, with this little flareup in the tree (referring to the fire) her companions were undecided whether to wait for her or pick her up on the way out. Actually, if they'd been having a better time there might have been no question about staying - after all it was only a flicker of a blaze, not all that serious, and it would be put out soon enough. But the fact was, the evening had been kind of a dud.

Again, from FIRE IN THE GROVE:

[quote] Frederick Harrington was the only member of the party who was standing at the moment the fire crossed the ceiling from the Caricature Bar and that small difference had saved him. "I yelled to my party to follow me", he said. "Did they?" he was asked. "No", he replied softly". He was the sole survivor of the group that included five siblings and their spouses. As far as he knew, all of his companions had died in their seats.

Obviously, once a fire gains momentum nobody thinks it's safe to stay, but as these accounts confirm, waiting even a few seconds to act can be the difference between live and death.

R98 that memorial is a hot mess and quite possibly the ugliest planned outdoor space I've ever seen. Did they design it by committee? Jesus.

In addition to the horrors of panic, burning, and toxic smoke inhalation, most of those trapped inside were pelted with molten clumps of burning ceiling material. Those poor people.

I'm another one who got obsessed with this story and have a bit of PTSD from watching the video multiple times. I'm also one of those who checks for emergency exists and plans for egress in crowded spaces although I'm afraid that skill has gotten rusty in 2020.

2003 was a bad year for crowded places. Shortly before this happened was the E2 nightclub stampede in Chicago and then in June the Lincoln Park porch collapse that killed 10 people.

I never heard about the E2 nightclub stampede in Chicago so I looked it up and immediately knew why. It was a ghetto club and all the victims were black.

I am pretty sure that there was something done incorrectly with the pyro. Like they weren’t rated for that type of enclosure or only for outdoor use. To compensate, the band manager lowered the platform they were staged on.

I wish I could remember the source. It was probably NPR. I did find where they did a story on it, but there is no transcript. And of course, I could be mixing it up with something else.

E2 was literally two days before this happened. The reason why we have full video of the Station Fire is because the owner of the club, who was also a local news broadcaster, decided to do a story on nightclub safety after the E2 stampede. So he brought a camera to his club to film some b-roll.

R106, you didn’t hear about it because you were holed up at the Parliament House getting your nasty ass worked over at the time. Talk about a GHETTO CLUB.

[quote] The reason why we have full video of the Station Fire is because the owner of the club, who was also a local news broadcaster, decided to do a story on nightclub safety

Talk about irony. Poor people -- everything that could go wrong re: nightclub safety essentially did in that video.

A week or so after the Station Nightclub fire we were in Rio and thanks to our hosts, guests at one of those huge Samba shows with 1: all the [italic]ianques[/italic] up front, 2: what looked like 2500 people behind us; with them between us and the doors we came in through, and 3: no visible fire exits. I always looked (I'm from Boston: memories of the Cocoanut Grove fire were still strong when I was a kid because it seemed like everyone in town knew someone who'd died there) but the scenes from the Station fire were still so fresh in my mind.

I figured if anything happened we were going out through a window. Fortunately, we didn't have to.

Parliament House was a blast.

[quote]I am pretty sure that there was something done incorrectly with the pyro. Like they weren’t rated for that type of enclosure or only for outdoor use. To compensate, the band manager lowered the platform they were staged on.

I have a vague recollection that it was the "acoustic" foam that was actually cheap and highly flammable, not rated for that purpose, and bought at a hardware supplier that was mostly to blame for the conflagration.

^^ So the nightclub owner bought the foam from a supplier who didn't inform him it was flammable and the foam company had to settle with the victims/families for $6.3M.

Stampede crushes have been happening forever. It's surprising so many high capacity venues can still exist without sufficient, clearly marked exits.

I watch a channel where the guy does short videos about historic disasters. 183 kids got crushed at a theater in 1880s England. A child who lived nearby was so impacted by the event that as an adult he designed the now common push-bar door to try and prevent things like that from happening again.

R107, the problem with the pyrotechnics is that each one shot sparks for fifteen feet and they were set up right at the opening of a drum alcove with a height of just over six feet. Two were vertical and two shot sparks diagonally across the wall into which the alcove was set.

The tour was so low-budget that no allowance had been made for testing. They bought enough to use four gerbs at each date; no more than that.

This is from memory, so I don’t have a link. I was going to school in RI at the time and there was a mad rush for interns after the fire. Because I was deemed “proficient in Internet searching” (which is hilarious in retrospect but I guess made sense to geriatric lawyers in 2003), I was given what amounted to a paralegal’s job researching code violations and legal action in past nightclub fires.

That was expanded and soon I was seeing things I’ll never forget. As such, I count airplane seats to the exit doors and always do an egress search upon entering a crowded space.

What made them think setting off what essentially were fireworks indoors was a good idea? It's amazing that nobody said "you know what? This is a REALLY bad idea to have these sparkler things inside a building." Mind boggling.

R113, the foam had two discrete layers — the outer material ignited and burned quickly; the inner released deadly levels of carbon monoxide and hydrogen cyanide within ninety seconds.

To the person who said they thought the place was in the middle of nowhere, it wasn’t. It was on a main road but abutted a neighborhood. It was also probably only an acre lot at most. That’s why so many complaints about the noise. You still see people here in RI with severe burn scars and assume that’s where they got them from. They are all in the same age group. RI is so small there’s one degree of separation with everyone. We all know someone who was effected by the tragedy.

What an awful video, OP. I couldn’t watch past when the screaming started.

Looking into The Station Nightclub fire led me to the Hillsborough disaster. It was inconceivable to me that people could be trampled to death outside with no other catastrophic event happening simultaneously. I know better now--my nightmares are a testament to it.

Has anyone read the new book, [italic]Trial by Fire[/italic]? I want to read it, but I’m put off by the idea of paying for a half-assed attempt at exonerating of the Derderians.

R115, this is one of the worst and disturbing human stampede video because you can see them slowly dying.

[quote]What was that nightclub fire where the people got wedged in the door trying to escape? That is so terrifying.

Has happened at many famous large fires, including many theater and schoolhouse fires, going back through the 19th century.

BTW, the original L&O did a really good episode obviously closely inspired by the Station Fire.

That L&O episode was particularly good and although they reset it to an illegal club space in the Bronx all the details of the fire were obviously based on the Station fire.

[quote] What was that nightclub fire where the people got wedged in the door trying to escape? That is so terrifying.

The Cocoanut Grove's main entrance was a revolving door, which quickly became jammed with people trying to escape. In addition, there was a separate cocktail lounge around the corner, connected by an internal passageway which allowed the fire to travel, that had an inward-opening door. When the firemen arrived, dozens of people were piled up in front of the door.

Any size door can become jammed if enough people are trying to use it at once, but the NY state fire code requires a width of at least 4 feet.

The Coconut Grove also had combustible tinsel decorations.

I assume fireman and other people tried to pull people to safety at the Station fire.

[quote] It did make me appreciate that things can go south very, very quickly once a fire starts.

Three things that all three nightclub disasters (The Station, Beverly Hills Supper Club, and Cocoanut Grove) had in common was that 1) all three were filled beyond their legal capacity and 2) none of them had sprinkler systems, and 3) all served alcohol.

In my simple mind, I think that all places that allow more than, say 100 people and serve alcohol should be required to have sprinkler systems. We all know how alcohol affects one's judgement, and, in unfamiliar surroundings and after having a drink or two, it's easy to become disoriented. Human behavior in a panic cannot be regulated, so by installing sprinklers, at least you're giving the poor people a chance to survive.

The video at r123 is unbelievably sad.

OMG r124. I am so verklempt. It was the L&O episode that I was remembering. I can actually see it now. Like most L&O, they slightly altered the story to make it more dramatic and produce more of a villain.

I wasn't watching a lot of TV in that period of my life. But I was getting in my NPR and L&O when it was running on A&E. It came on at 11 where I was in college, and I would often take a break from the books and catch an episode.

R62 I remember a lot of middle-aged people were still sporting fashions from the 70s in the late 80s as well.

I remember the "beehive ladies" from the 60s in the 80s, i.e. middle-aged women who were still wearing the big shellacked hairdos from the 60s in the 80s. Think Lady Bird Johnson hair.

The stage exit at Station had two doors mounted back to back, one of which wasn’t supposed to be there. The emergency-exit door (with an alarm) that opened to the outside swung properly, in the direction of egress. They had been cited three times for an inner door which swung into the club, impeding egress, and that one shouldn’t have been there in the first place.

After each citation, the door was removed for the inspector’s return visit, then immediately replaced. The Derderians insisted on the illegal inner door because it prevented people from sneaking in through the unlocked emergency-exit door which of course hints at the inner one being kept locked during the day and on slower nights when there wasn’t a bouncer stationed immediately in front of it.

It probably didn’t matter in this case because most of people who were allowed to exit that way were band, crew, and staff, but it does show the mindset.

The Fire Marshal cited his rage at seeing the door had been reinstalled yet again as the reason he didn’t notice the egg-crate foam....which happened to be covering the door he was so angry about.

The Station’s story is littered with little anecdotes like that one. The main entrance was also a disaster waiting to happen where, horribly enough, the doors both swinging in the proper direction exacerbated the pile-up.

Once people fell or collapsed in front of the inner outward-swinging door six feet in from the front doors, everyone in that space was stuck, trying desperately to get air through the front doors, and the people behind them were trapped inside the club.

R124, R130. That episode is not based off of The Station Fire, but the Happyland Fire, which was an illegal club in the Bronx. In 1990. They did not have to manufacture a villain for that one- the fire was intentionally set by the angry boyfriend of the coat check girl. The club was in a basement, and he threw gasoline down the stairs and lit a match. 87 club goers were killed.

No, r134, the fire in the L&O episode was caused by live pyrotechnics close to the stage igniting the ceiling and was obviously inspired by the Station fire. Even the episode's IMDB page, linked above, says

[quote]This episode is "ripped from the headlines" of the deadly night club fire during a Great White concert on February 20, 2003 in West Warwick, Rhode Island.

[quote]The Fire Marshal cited his rage at seeing the door had been reinstalled yet again as the reason he didn’t notice the egg-crate foam....which happened to be covering the door he was so angry about.

Was the egg crate foam against fire code rules?

R135- my bad, I’m remembering a different episode- they did the Happyland-based episode back in 1991. That’s the one I was thinking of.

R136. The foam insulation was not only flammable, it broke down into cyanide gas when burned. The Station was a perfect disaster waiting to happen in so many ways. Those Derderian brothers cut every corner they could. Different insulation wound have saved lives. A sprinkler system would have saved lives.

^ I was just about to post that. L&O did separate episodes inspired by each fire.

Armenians. Ugh. Never trust them.

[quote]Was the egg crate foam against fire code rules?

It was never meant to be used in a building. They spent $575 on gray polyether polyurethane packaging foam from a local company. It was visible in videos of other bands playing there. In the drum alcove, it was applied directly to extruded polystyrene which had been installed between the studs and left exposed.

At some point they must have decided they didn't like how it looked and it was sprayed black and coated with a layer of urethane in which they embedded glitter.

This is an interesting thread, some of you are very knowledgeable. For instance, I never knew that egg crate foam gave off cyanide gas when burned. JFC!

Wasn't the egg crate foam applied at least partly as sound insulation because so many neighbors filed complaints about the noise from the club? Or am I remembering something else?

1980s hairspray hair also gives off cyanide gas when burned

Thanks, OP. You're sent me on a rabbit hole of horrific fires. Some of which I've visited before.

I am sort of amazed that there was no way to save those people at the doorway. I guess I am lacking in physics. So they couldn't be pulled up and out? Or did they not have time?

Dl to the bone, r144

WW for R118 for the first correct usage of "discrete" that I've seen in eons.

God you sound like you have a sad life r147.

Ruh roh

R143, according to the neighbor, Barry Warner, the Derderians approached him as soon as they bought the club. They wanted to be good neighbors and asked for help in correcting the noise problem. Every legitimate soundproofing product he mentioned was too expensive for them and kept pushing for the lowest price possible. All they cared about was the price and they never brought up safety. He said only discussed various types of foam with them and had no involvement in the sale.

The Derderians' story is that Warner went to the club and offered to give them a great deal on soundproofing, going as far as to take all the measurements, place the order, and arrange for its delivery. They said he represented himself as an expert and they had no reason to question him when he said was the right foam to use.

Aram DerManouelian, president of American Foam, said the Derderians went to him and simply said they wanted to buy egg-crate foam. It was a product he sold every day for packaging and there was nothing unusual about their purchase. They wanted foam; he sold them foam.

Pick one.

R14 My Ass Is On Fire Mr Bungle

[quote]I am sort of amazed that there was no way to save those people at the doorway. I guess I am lacking in physics. So they couldn't be pulled up and out? Or did they not have time?

It is all in the video posted to YouTube. The fire department and various samaritans tried to pull folks from out of the doorway and clear the log jam, but they were unable to dislodge more than one person, from what I recall.

What I don't know is what happened to the people at the very front of the crush. Some of those people were literally halfway out of the club. I don't know whether they died or what.

Obviously, the folks behind them died, but what about the ones in the very front?

The building had a really stupid, and as it turned out, fatal design flaw in that the double doors opened into the building. There was also a bungalow-style ramp right outside the doors with a metal rail, forcing exiting patrons to go in only one direction. This may have been okay when the building was constructed, but it should have been changed for a 100-capacity nightclub.

In the video at r123, apparently some people were on a bridge during the stampede. To avoid being crushed, some people pulled on whatever was available, including cords. The result was that some in the stampede were electrocuted.

347 people died.

The double doors at the main entrance opened out onto a platform that had stairs on the sunroom side and a ramp on the bar side.

Does Great White still tour?

[quote] Does Great White still tour?

Yes, be sure to bring your lighter to hold up during the ballads.

Could someone explain this cambodian disaster? Were they inside a structure or what? How did they get so piled up?

Brilliant, R157, you bastard! 😄

Re: human stampedes, yikes.

[quote] At very high densities of seven or more people per square meter, crowds can resemble fluids, developing, for example, powerful waves that exceed 1,000 pounds of force. Many stampede fatalities result not from trampling but from compressional asphyxia, in which people are squeezed to death upright or in a pileup. Beware of bottlenecks like doorways, where multidirectional pushing can cause a semicircle of bodies packed so tightly that none can move.

Rolling Stone had a good writeup about the survivors one year later.

r161 that article was so infuriating to read, the government and other agencies did practically nothing to help the survivors.

[quote] So the nightclub owner bought the foam from a supplier who didn't inform him it was flammable and the foam company had to settle with the victims/families for $6.3M.

And some wonder why we have to write “Flammable” on a gas can, or “Contents Hot” on a cup of coffee. This is why.

Ridiculous.

[quote] Please tell me that bouncer died.

Yes, Rose, and the many interviews he gave and discussed here were from beyond the grave.

The Station fire completely changed my behavior in clubs. I used to try to get close to the stage. Since 2003, I hang out as close to an exit as possible. Not that I attend many live shows anymore, and certainly not this year.....

There was a book written by a NYTs writer (when they were still journalists and excellent writers) who had reported on the WTC on 9/11. She later looked at mass death incidents like some of the fires mentioned in this thread, stampedes and other situations. I cannot remember the name of the book at this moment. The over all message is do what most people do not do at the first hint of trouble: get the fuck out! NOW! Really, fuck everyone else and analyzing what to do next. Just get out! You want to avoid group think at all cost.

Most people who die in fires die of smoke inhalation . It is not smoke actually, but super hot gases a few feet extending from the ceiling. If you wake up and think your home is on fire, do not sit up or stand up, you'll roast your respiratory system and die within seconds. Instead, roll to the floor and crawl to the nearest window or exit.

Another one.

R164, assuming you’re talking about Scott Vieira as the bouncer, he was straight out the back door with the band and hasn’t been heard from since; not publicly. His wife was last seen standing in front of the stage, feet away from him, and she died.

He did turn up once at a function for family members and survivors. Gina Russo — one of the people turned away at the stage door and whose fiancé died trying to push her to the front door — turned around at one point and came face to face with him. She gasped and said, “oh my god, it’s you” to which he smiled and said something like, “yup, it’s me.”

He told other people at the same event that he was only following orders.

R168- The building owner and the idiot Ghost Ship founder both should ot in prison.

R12 I’ve never heard of this story and reading the Wikipedia link made me ill. Those poor people.

[quote] Scott Vieira as the bouncer, he was straight out the back door with the band and hasn’t been heard from since; not publicly.

R169, what the hell are you talking about? Didn’t you even read r60?

Since R60 is my post, yes, I have read it.

What's quoted at R60 was taken from his grand jury testimony, obtained by the Providence Journal after the fact.

Scott Vieira has not spoken publicly.

The Station looks like a place Rachael Ray would have gone to before she was famous.

I was at the Rihanna concert at the American Airlines center in Dallas in 2011. We were pretty high up and saw the fire start. At first I thought they would be able to get it out quickly and within seconds I realized the guy in the scaffolding was struggling to get it under control. Someone must have told RiRi, who was on-stage, what was happening in her headset because she disappeared down a hole in the stage and the rest of the musicians and singers disappeared. I was surprised the stadium didn't make an announcement or put the lights on. At this point maybe 20 seconds had passed and everyone was just standing in place, thinking the show was going to start again. I grabbed my BF's arm and made him bolt. I was sort of shocked by how few people were leaving. We flew down several flights of stairs and were out the door in maybe 45 seconds. I had been in apartment building that caught on fire when I was a kid. I take that shit seriously. Thankfully no one was hurt but it could have been bad.

This is why I love when theaters give those instructions about the exists including some movie theaters during a sold-out show. Reminds you that safety needs to consider at all times.

R166 I think you are talking about The Unthinkable by Amanda Ripley. Great book.

Wow. I am from New England and I had not thought about this in a long time. I kindled Killer Show based on the recommendations above.

This book gave me nightmares last night.

My takeaways-

These victims and their families basically got zero justice. The Derderian brothers got away with 2nd degree murder in my opinion- Disgusting human beings. Remind me of the company I work for in myriad ways.

That bouncer Scott Viera is a vile piece of garbage who should have served jail time as well.

The only human being responsible for this tragedy was the pyro guy who worked for the band. The guy GOT it. He was genuinely remorseful. His sentence was on the lower side of what it could have been, and based on what I have learned, it was just. However, I was not related to someone who died and probably have no right to say this.

The book was excellent, however the author went way to far with his condescending tone about how "blue collar" most of the victims were. It came across as extremely elitist and he went too far with that angle. It made me feel even worse for the victims reading this author's elitist tone. I don't know- that was my take on it.

And when you watch that video on Youtube, that place was engulfed in 2 minutes. Within a minute the air was unbreathable.

I cannot fathom what many of them went through. The screams will haunt me.

I just cannot wrap my head around anyone thinking pyrotechnics inside and pointing at a ceiling was a good idea.

R25, I have never even heard of that fire! 165 people dead? Wow.

Speaking about horrible stampedes and crushes, it seems the UK is full of them, mostly from football matches, which were often held at very old and small local clubs.

--

'Singing and dancing to their deaths': football’s forgotten tragedy

In 1971, an Old Firm derby at Ibrox ended with the death of 66 fans as they celebrated a late goal. John Hodgman survived the terrifying crush and, 50 years on, asks how Rangers avoided taking responsibility

R142, I am looking to insulate my garage ceiling that is open and vaulted(house was built in 1941).

I was planning on doing foam insulation panels until I read about the fire and noxious gas issue if you don't drywall it. Was on some message board and saw it. I had no idea either.

You bitches have now convinced me to look for the exits, if I go out for entertainment once this coronavirus mess is over.

Charles Nelson Reilly survived the 1944 Hartford circus fire in which 168 people died. He spoke of it quite movingly in his one-man show 'The Life of Reilly'.

Unbelievable as it sounds, they waterproofed the tent with a mixture of gasoline and paraffin.

Same r179. Simple logic would tell you that setting off pyrotechnics indoors is extremely dangerous. And that building was made of wood and looked rickety AF as well. It was the last place you'd want to have something like that. Crazy.

My late grandmother would talk about the Hartford circus fire. She was a teenager at the time and lived close to Hartford, she knew people who were killed. It was horrific.

If you ever have an opportunity to go witness a controlled burn by your local fire department — go see it. Call them and ask if they do them and where you can witness it.

In spite of everyone here trying to help you understand the speed of fire, no words can give it proper context. You need to see it LIVE in front of you to understand it. Someone here posted it can move faster than humans can run. Try to envision that. The smoke is ALWAYS black as night, rolling and billowing. I briefly dated a firefighter, he told me every single fire is light that, and that they cannot see their own hands, much less people or objects. Your brain cannot comprehend the power of the smoke, much less the flames, much less the speed.

For your own safety and those you love, I truly encourage you to go watch a controlled burn in person (not video!). The one I saw they actually built a “living room” with one wall missing so you could watch it happen, it had three walls, a roof, carpet n padding, a coffee table, end table, soda, lamp, window, curtains — and a waste bin. The lead firefighter took a puff off a cigarette, put it in the garbage can. It started to burn some paper in the can, which quickly tagged the curtain and spread. It was a raging roaring inferno in maybe a minute, minute in a half, and we had to move back because of the heat (this was in a large parking lot). The smoke looked like waves of hell. Highly recommend this experience for educational/safety purposes, it can save lives.

The fireball at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas raced across the casino ceiling so fast, that people died in the front of their slot machines. IIRC, the fire travelled at 50 m.p.h. ... One group of bodies was still seated at their table at the Beverly Hills Supper Club. They never had time to stand up.

I never knew about The Beverly Hills Supper Club fire until I read about it right here on DL a few years ago. It was another situation of the owners disregarding fire codes and building codes because they were greedy bastards. This is a survivor's account.....

As r186 said, it has to be seen in person. You can watch a video and see the speed but you can’t comprehend the heat and how quickly the smoke descends.

In the case of the Station, based on reconstructions measuring the heat at adult standing-height, the stage-sunroom side of the building reached 1,000 degrees Celsius (1,832 Fahrenheit) at ninety seconds and the smoke and fumes were within a foot of the floor.

Since Christmas is right around the corner, watch the timer as this room burns and then go water your tree.

One other point. When I was a kid, I was a total hellcat. I was never sober, was a small-time dealer on the side, partied my ass off. I laughed, laughed, laughed, when I heard safety lectures about things like fire exits, or plane flotation devices, etc. I rolled my eyes. I was the most immature dickhead on earth. Now? I take it seriously. Always listen when the experts give you safety instructions — they aren’t anal weirdos, they are people who have actually witnessed this kind of horror and don’t want you to experience the same. Cops and firefighters are mostly huge assholes, but I have to respect that they rescue people who sometimes don’t deserve to be rescued, and they put themselves in danger all the time, for idiots like me.

[quote]The book was excellent, however the author went way to far with his condescending tone about how "blue collar" most of the victims were.

I agree that it probably wasn’t needed in the book, but I think John Barylick was just continuing on with how he had represented the victims.

To give it a bit of context, the other side was all about blaming the victims, as in: What kind of idiot doesn’t know that you immediately drop to the floor and crawl to the nearest exit? If you see a bunch of people stampeding in the direction of a narrow hallway, how stupid do you have to be follow them? I mean, didn’t we all know these things by the time we were in fourth grade? What kind of mother leaves her children with a babysitter to go out to a bar and then orphans them?? Who, exactly, [italic]are[/italic] these people?!?

There were things in play far uglier than an attorney playing the hand he was dealt while also trying to establish that NO ONE knows how they’d react in similar circumstances (i.e., ~20 seconds from the time of ignition to make a life-or-death decision in an overcrowded space, after a couple of drinks in some cases, listening to a song with a fire-themed video being played in a club where pyrotechnics had been used before and who knows, it’s probably just part of the show. They wouldn’t be allowed to do it otherwise, right?)

Was it necessary for him to go that far when he was representing them? I think it was. He wasn’t the one who opened that particular can of worms; that came from elsewhere. What he did was what would be called “owning it” these days.

If the victims are going to be painted as white trash who were too stupid to live, fine. Let’s agree that they were overwhelmingly blue collar and then you can explain why that should be a death sentence. Let’s put the reality of their lives out there and then you can explain why their social status excuses the club from providing basic safety measures. It wasn’t a bad strategy.

Was it necessary in the book? It probably could have been mentioned once or twice and then left up to the reader.

I owe you one, R191-

I have not googled this writer- Is he a LAWYER for the VICTIMS????

I had NO idea.

I will take a moment and see who this guy is.

I really wish I never watched these videos. This all stays with you. And I pray those screams at 4, 5 minutes on that video- are not from within the building. I am not understanding how these poisonous gases would not kill most within 2 minutes. I just don't want to accept that these folks burnt to death.

Anyway, I am googling this writer and I am going to say a prayer, and move on from this tragedy. It fucking sucks.

Only heterosexual men would cheer and sing like lunatics because "their team won" while people are literally burning and dying a few feet away in the video at R5

I've seen OP's video a few times and every single time, I think i can handle it, but always end up feeling very disturbed afterward (as people should be). As R192 wrote, it's horrible to hear the screaming, not knowing who it is or where it's originating, especially since it sounds like one man keeps screaming what sounds like "we're going to die". Also frightening is around 6:15 when we see someone running out of the inferno, his entire body engulfed in flames.

Even worse than the video, there's an audio recording that will never see the light of day. The legal teams in the civil action heard it and will never unhear it. It was bad enough that when it was played for some of the defendants' attorneys to show them what jurors were going to hear if they chose to go to trial, they had a sudden change of heart and decided to settle.

It was recorded by Matt Pickett, who used to record concerts on a DAT Walkman which was still in his pocket when his personal effects were returned to the family. They didn't open the bag until a year later. The heat had fused the recorder shut but the tape inside was able to be almost completely restored by the ATF. That helped a lot with the timing because they were able to sync the audio tape of Jack Russell saying "that's not good" with the same words on the video. The recording continued for ten minutes after that.

It also played a role in what I feel is the most haunting image from the fire: Jeff Rader standing a few feet away from the stage door looking completely calm, drink and cigarette in hand, jacket over arm, in what would be the last photo taken inside. The person in the sweater is Matt Pickett. He had told his friend to take a picture of the fire as they were heading to the door, and that's what he captured.

Did Jeff Rader make it out?

R145, somewhere there is an interview with a guy who I think you can see in the video, he's in a leather jacket, pulling people out, and he said it got too hot to stay there. That may be the same article where a man said he got out, went to the parking lot, turned around, and realized there was already a crush of bodies, so they went to get the hose but knew after just a few seconds that it was too late. You can see him in the video start to get the hose along with some others.

There were multiple people pulled out, not just one as someone said earlier. There was one woman whose husband yanked her out of there but her clothes were left behind so she was naked from the waist down, and at least one man survived until the firefighters got there apparently because he was lucky to be in an air pocket, and some people were pulled by the man in the jacket as well. There was a couple who were pulled from the doorway and later split up, both suffering from PTSD they couldn't manage. The guy who is interviewed regularly whose hands were burned off was pulled from the doorway.

Okay R103, thank you for quoting a book about the Cocoanut Grove fire, but you quoted what I said about the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire.

Besides, you didn't disprove my point: that there's no actual proof that women at Cocoanut Grove went to get their coats after the fire took hold and spread significantly. One woman did when the fire was just a tiny flame in a tree decoration, but that's not the same as a bunch of women running to get their coats after the fire was clearly a danger.

The irony of this whole discussion is that multiple people died in the Station fire because they did go back in to get their coats. We know that for a fact. Instead, for some reason we're talking about one lady at Cocoanut Grove and the resulting theory that silly women "actually thought they had time to pick up their coats prior to fleeing a burning building."

No, R196. It's believed he was standing there trying to spot his girlfriend in the crowd heading to the front. She also died. Based on the timing of the audio recording, if he had walked out the stage door just as the photo was taken, he would have lived. It's so eerie.

He had toured with Great White before and was visiting his girlfriend in RI when he noticed they were playing that night and stopped by before the show to say hi.

Did the woman who was screaming "where's my husband" survive? That was the worst part for me - I think fearing for someone else is always more crippling than fear you feel for yourself.

She and her husband both survived. She had already passed through the inner door when she was screaming "where's my husband." The shrieking started when she had just made it out and the first people started falling in the doorway behind her.

The internet would have you believe she was screaming as she burned to death inside the building, but she had already escaped and her screams aren't on the Pickett tape. And I realized I made a mistake above in saying the tape would never be played. The graphic part won't, but John Barylick has done presentations using the very beginning of the video with the Pickett audio added and it cuts off before flashover.

i've watched the video several times over the years. It's so weird, it's like my brain can't process the horror that is happening.

R195- So you have been down this rabbit hole as well-

I googled the recording I read about in the book as well- and came across that Reddit thread with the picture of Rader.

I think the book said less than half a minute after that picture was taken the guy could not even get out of the band entrance/exit door-

The fact that people were still alive in that building for 5 or 10?? minutes for that recording to record them dying is beyond my comprehension. The place is a roaring inferno in 4-5 minutes-

Rader still has his fucking drink in his hands. Was the guy in shock? Its disturbing.

I come away from this shocked at that judge and the sentences. And that Jack White or whatever the fuck his name is, is fucking LOSER- in every sense of the word. What a scumbag.

And I hope the pyro guy finds some peace in his life. I don't think so families ever will.

I’ve bookmarked that book, The Unthinkable.

R201- That makes me feel a little better. You could tell that woman was in the first group of people in that entrance hall based on the clarity of her voice, so I hoped she made it out. You can tell the difference between a voice like hers vs. the primal screams that you later in the video as that cameraman runs back and forth along the sides of the building. I guess the flashover is when the tape gets graphic. I just did not think people can be burned alive for 5+ minutes without falling into shock. I think the book said that 20 or 30 people were found in some supply room and they were virtually unburned- but died from the poisonous air. I would have to say that this was the most merciful option in this disaster.

this thread is the most graphic thing I've ever read on DL - and that is saying a lot.

still, I too laughed at the insensitive jokes about bad 80s hair and aqua net.

does that make me bitchy?

One of the few times when the comments on youtube are more sincere and compassionate toward human life and death than DL

It is so horrifying. I'm from CT, not too far away from where this happened in RI and remember it vividly. Those scumbag club owners should've had more jail time, that bar violated so many regulations and they knew it.

Ok, the Youtube comment about the fact that Great White broke up because they killed their last 100 fans made me laugh my ass off.

This is the best map I could find of the locations of the bodies.

R209 I'll join you. That's funny as fuck.

On a more serious note, for me the worst part of the video is near the end when you hear a woman screaming bloody murder and then suddenly going silent. According to some people if you listen closely you can actually hear the flames frying her vocal cords.

I’ve never seen the floor plan before. There was another exit in the main bar area? I can see why people might not be familiar with the kitchen exit but a lot of them had probably been to the bar, there’s an exit right there.

The settlements and suits were far ranging, and the most money was paid by orgs that were peripherally involved at the most, and not actively part of the negligence/wrongdoing.

From Anheuser-Busch ($5M) and their local distributor ($16M), to the tv station that employed the guy who shot the tape "for not helping enough" ($30M), the makers of the speakers ($815K), Home Depot ($5M), the radio station and Clear Channel (its parent company) because their DJ promoted it ($22M), the manufacturer ($25M) and seller ($6.3M) of the foam.

Contrast this with the tour group's payout ($1M), the Derdarians ($813K) the state and the town ($10M).

Were there fire extinguishers? If they had been used, could that have bought some time?

I was living in the South End of Boston when this happened. I remember waking up early on Saturday (or Sunday) and flipping on the local news and being transfixed by the footage they showed over and over again of the fire starting and then a shot of people trapped in the doorway. I must have watched it 20 times.

And then probably went to brunch, followed by Mike's Gym.

I recall reading that the pile of people packed in the doorway exploded into flames due to the intense heat. Just awful.

R210, that plan is horrific. From what I understand of fire safety codes there are at least two and maybe three exits missing from that layout.

When I first saw this video a few years ago I realized that I didn't know any of the details of what happened. I remember magazine articles and news reports, but thought that it was a building fire not a major tragic death scene.

It starts out so innocently, almost like a house band at a house party. Then their faces show real concern but they stay organized and composed.

To see them piled on top of each other so close to escaping is frustrating and so sad.

If the video didn't exist, I don't think anyone would really know the nightmare that unfolded so quickly.

R203, I’m the one who posted somewhere up there that I was going to school in RI at the time and did an internship.

[quote] I think the book said less than half a minute after that picture was taken the guy could not even get out of the band entrance/exit door-

That sounds about right. But yeah, he does look like he’s standing there waiting for his Uber.

[quote]Rader still has his fucking drink in his hands. Was the guy in shock? Its disturbing.

I try to avoid reading about it online because there's so much foolishness from drama queens who think the story isn't horrible enough and needs some added flourishes. But in the case of Jeff Rader, a now widespread rumor came from an idiot associated with the band who tried to make Jeff's mother feel better (??) by telling her that he died a hero; he had gotten out safely and then went back in to find Becky Shaw, and they had died holding hands. Yeah, Mom will sleep soundly now.

That version of events even managed to make it onto the wall of the memorial, but then that was put together by a guy whose only connection to the fire was raising a lot of money for the memorial fund. He cited as his sources: [italic]Killer Show[/italic], [italic]From the Ashes[/italic], news accounts, and.....things he saw on the internet. It never happened. Jeff Rader went straight from telling people to get out and pointing at the door to walking back to the way he went in — the stage door.

At least one witness mentioned wondering why he was walking toward the flames, which is counterintuitive but would have been the right move in this case, IF he had kept going. The consensus at the time was that he probably assumed Becky was right behind him and stopped for a second to see if she had followed the crowd to the front door instead.

Just a long-winded way of saying that while it's still the creepiest (and last) picture from inside, it's slightly less creepy than if he had sauntered back into the building with his cigarette, drink, and jacket.

[quote] According to some people if you listen closely you can actually hear the flames frying her vocal cords.

Get real. This is not a horror flick.

[quote] From Anheuser-Busch ($5M) and their local distributor ($16M), to the tv station that employed the guy who shot the tape "for not helping enough" ($30M), the makers of the speakers ($815K), Home Depot ($5M), the radio station and Clear Channel (its parent company) because their DJ promoted it ($22M), the manufacturer ($25M) and seller ($6.3M) of the foam.

Pardon my cynicism but some of that just sounds like PR for the firms. Which for some of them would be peanuts. The speakers? The TV station?

R212, It's been a while since I read about this tragedy but I believe that most of the bar patrons survived because they followed the bar staff out through the kitchen exit.

I remember reading about one girl who was in the bathroom when the fire started and when she walked back out, it was too late for her to escape so she ran back into the bathroom and called 911 for help. Sadly she died before they could get to her.

That person who is on fire at the end of the video really hits hard. He managed to survive longer than most and found an exit but then was engulfed in flames while escaping. Damn.

[quote] Were there fire extinguishers? If they had been used, could that have bought some time?

R314, somehow, I don't think so. Some of that egg crate stuff seems like it was an accelerant. Most ppl just wanted to get the hell out of there, not stay and look for extinguishers.

[quote]The settlements and suits were far ranging, and the most money was paid by orgs that were peripherally involved at the most, and not actively part of the negligence/wrongdoing.

That's because there was virtually nothing to collect from the town, the Derderians, and Jack Russell Tour Group, Inc. The latter two were insured for $1 million each. 100 people died and 200 were seriously injured.

It could fill an entire thread, but they weren't all as peripheral as it would appear at first glance. Anheuser-Busch was a sponsor of the tour and their agents had been on site at every date. Mike "Dr. Metal" Gonsalves, who was an agent of the radio station but also of Budweiser (who paid him for his appearance that night), was inches away from Dan Biechele as he set up the gerbs. Agents for Anheuser-Busch were present when Jack Russell did interviews playing up the new pyro he had added to the show. Yet never once did anyone from Anheuser-Busch question why pyrotechnics were being used in small clubs, in their name: [italic]Budweiser Presents: Jack Russell's Great White![/italic]

The pyrotechnics company was only allowed to sell to licensed pyrotechnicians. Dan Biechele wasn't licensed so they did what they always did with unlicensed buyers: they put someone else's license number on the order. In this case, it was one of Kiss's pyrotechnicians. The poor guy woke up to an early-morning call from ATF agents and he had absolutely no clue what was going on.

On and on it goes...

[quote]the guy who shot the tape "for not helping enough"

It was actually because he slowed and blocked egress at the front door. Several witnesses stated that he slowed their egress considerably before he stood still in the doorway and forced people to squeeze by him while he was getting his final interior footage. When WPRI's attorneys and insurers saw his video, they were the first to settle.

Didn't the guy filming break a window where some people managed to escape?

He claims to have broken one of the sunroom windows, but that seems like something that would have been seen or heard in his video.

One of the things that never seems to be mentioned is that only three of those windows were glass. Over the years, as fights and flying pool balls broke them, they were replaced by plexiglass. People were overcome before they could find a breakable window and it didn't help that all of the tables, chairs, and pool tables had been pushed against the windows to make room for more people.

bump

This a rabbit hole I wish I had not jumped down. Once you research it it gets in your head. How little I knew about fire, smoke, etc... I can see why a poster above said to go watch a live burn (I forget the term) at a fire station- Just the video alone on Youtube where they replicated The Station Fire is beyond.

I hope I am not one of those Disaster Ghouls the author of Killer Show talks about. But this is extremely compelling.

And this gentleman who was horrifically burned, even lost his hands- what a strong spirit and man. Joe Kinan.

I do not understand how people got away with 2nd degree murder/manslaughter.

[quote]Once you research it it gets in your head.

I told you! There is something about this particular fire. It probably has something to do with how well documented it is.

I give cameraman Brian Butler for WPRI-TV credit. He starts moving towards the exit before just about anyone else it appears. Smart man.

And to think it happened just into the 1st song!

Damn. Between covid and this thread, you bitches have me scarred of nightclubs for life.

SCARED. Hopefully not scarred

Y’all, this thread is going to stick with me a long time. Merry Christmas bitches!!!!!!! Practice fire safety — always know where those exits are, run as fast as you can, you whores!!! Xxoo.

Profiles of those killed in the Station club fire

There are many mistakes in the bios linked at R235. I read the exact same bio for at least 3 of the men and I didn’t read a lot of them.

R236- As I went down this rabbit hole in the last week or so- many of the biographies are correct, about 20% are wrong and seem to give the obituary of the same man.

The pain many of these folks died in in unbelievable to me.

I am realizing that many of them suffered immensely before death- It appears you have to really research witnesses/survivors on Youtube to realize that.

People try to make its sound like they all inhaled fumes and died within 2 minutes. I do not think this is the case.

I give them my humble respect and I pray that they have eternal peace. And since I believe in reincarnation, I guess I should say that their future lifetimes are filled with blessings and grace.

Link below. Go to the 14 minute mark and get a harsh reality;. The witness is pretty cold and detached. And I am not into is defense of the Derderians. I think he has PTSD and he sounds like a New England moron. However, that 14 minute mark says alot about what these people went through.

A couple details I found out recently is that the Station Nightclub had burned down thirty years earlier, and that Great White lead singer Jack Russell spent the earlier part of the day passing out free tickets to the show to anyone who recognized him.

People should’ve pushed past the bouncer blocking the damn exit for the band only...overwhelmed him!

About a decade ago, I was booked to DJ at a circuit party event on New Year's Eve in Mexico City. The event was held in a warehouse type space. I was on this large stage with giant LED screens behind me. As I was about to go on, the event organizer told me in somewhat broken English that at midnight the fireworks would go off. I assumed he meant firework graphics on the LED screens. No. He meant actual pyro, not unlike in the Station fire video. I freaked the fuck out because I wasn't expecting it and the sparks flew everywhere. I felt them in my hair. For a moment, I was truly terrified. All I could think of is "I'm in a crowded warehouse in Mexico fucking City with probably zero fire codes. I am going to die". After a few seconds, the sparks stopped. No fire ignited and I had to just carry on with my set playing hideous obnoxious circuit party music for the next three hours although I was completely freaked out and wanted nothing more than to get the fuck out of there.

R5 Why did I watch this? OMG, that guy just walking on fire at the end is soooo disturbing. And yet, still a Monty Python vibe to the whole video, you know? I read the Aflame Fan did indeed die, like if that wasn't obvious and you're like me who had to read about this disaster for the past 2 hours...

The cameraman—which door did he exit from? Because he walked around a corner of the building and filmed the exit that had all the people crammed tight not able to get out and that was the main entrance with the railing.

He left through the front door right before the pileup, walked around the corner to the stage door, and then went back to the front door.

I can't believe how quickly those people all got piled on top of each other at the door. What would have been the right thing for people to do? The people in the back had to start moving back?

R244, people in the very back would have had to move back and start pulling people in the opposite direction, but that was almost impossible with people panicking, flames, and billowing, black, poison smoke.

[quote]What would have been the right thing for people to do?

They didn't have the luxury of a right thing. The entrance was where the fresh air was and even if they had been able to back out — into a known disaster zone; through an inner door opening toward them; through a 33-inch funnel space; in the direction of the fire; into all-consuming black smoke; and that's not even accounting for what other people were doing — they would have found themselves in the pool room, second only to the stage area in terms of heat. Without the ability to travel forward like snakes, breathing only the air within a foot of the floor, they were overcome after taking a few breaths. The grand jury testimony/witness statements and orientation of the bodies jibe.

Plus, people were already heading to the pool room thinking it would be an easy way out due to its wall of glass greenhouse windows*. They didn't know that with the exception of three small panes at the bottom the glass had been replaced, piecemeal, by plexiglass over the years. In order to pack in more people, the pool tables had been pushed up against the windows with the club's tables and chairs stacked on top. People spent their last seconds trying to move them out of the way only to be met with windows that wouldn't break.

*As an aside, something that goes to mindset in a disaster: every one of the survivors who successfully broke windows on the bar side said they had a split second in which they were certain they were overreacting. Some mentioned getting out and thinking they were about to be arrested.

Wow R246.

I think the situation was very comparable to the 9/11 jumpers. (Mary, I know)

This gmail file has some of the key witness statements and other court related files. Its not easy to find. Once you go through the witness statements you can see the actual horror of what happened. And the BULLSHIT coroner stuff that 90% of these folks died of inhalation is bullshit. A lot of these folks burned too death prior to death by inhalation.

I am from New England and I was 26 when this happened and was struck for a few days and moved on with life. At 43, its a different story. What a fucking nightmare for these victims and families. NO ONE paid the price but that pyro guy, who was clearly a scapegoat for fire inspectors and those Derderian Brothers. And the was the ONLY one who really gave a fuck. See this man in his court appearance at sentencing. Truly remorseful.. When I was in college I had a buddy Ryan who was from Rhode Island. I asked him what Rhode Island was like. He said "It was corrupt". I never forgot that. That was all he had to say!!!!! 3 words. Nothing else. Got it.

This video has a couple minutes of footage of people in the bar before the band started playing. One of the comments from a couple weeks ago added time stamps of the some of the victims who died minutes later.

Victims with time stamps. 0:02 Walter Rich (older guy with yellow shirt raising one arm in the air.) Nicholas O’Neil (young guy on right clapping his hands) Stacie Angers (blonde with white shirt has a beer bottle in front) 0:15 Derek Grey (easy to spot very tall guy in front curly hair) Geno Avilez (he’s hard to see but he’s right behind his buddy Derek he has black hair) Jeffrey Martin (on the left of Derek but he’s the one with the wristwatch making hand gestures) 0:25 Sarah Telgarsky (lady on left with red shirt putting on lipstick) Skott Greene (right in front of Sarah raising his hand doing rock n roll hand gesture black jacket) 0:26 James Gahan (tall young guy wearing plaid shirt mouth open standing behind his friend the dude with glasses) 0:30 Freddy Cristasomi (guy raising 2 beer bottles in the air) 0:40 Linda Suffaletto (blonde on the left but not 100% on this one) Kristen McQuarrie (lady with dark curly hair on the right with her boyfriend who survived) 0:58 Tracy King (big bald guy he was one of the bouncers, apparently was saving lives but sadly didn’t escape) 1:05 William Cartwright (guy with glasses and mustache) 1:06 Kevin Washburn (guy on the right who gives thumbs up) 1:13 Michael Cordier (guy on right with black cap) 1:22 Bridget Sanetti (easy to see blonde with blue shirt) Katherine O’Connor (right next to her friend Bridget wearing red skirt) 2:03 Andrea Mancini (ticket counter girl easy to see) 2:31 Robert Croteau (guy on the left wearing glasses and arms in the air facing his back to the stage 3:08 Matthew Pickett (very hard to see but had white shirt on with stripe in the middle he walks towards the front of the stage)

I’m sure there’s more but that’s all I know pretty much and done could be incorrect but I’m almost certain with these ones though. The rest of the faces you see though in this vid are mostly survivors but I’m sure had injuries.

[quote]A lot of these folks burned too death

Oh, dear!

Is it burnt?

Or Alot?

Station Fire victims on Findagrave

You will find the full 20 minute video in that google drive- it includes the video R248 posted. Unedited.

TOO- Wow.

l am oh-dearing myself! HARD

[quote] l am oh-dearing myself! HARD

Mmmmmm. Can I be of any assistance?

What does one see in that 20 minute video? I am curious, but too scared to watch it!

Death.

No, seriously, I’m not being funny.

Death, pain, suffering, fear, people literally on fire, and destruction. It’s really something you either shouldn’t watch or be prepared for it to stay with you.

R256 Can you give a detailed breakdown? I probably won't watch it, but I said the same about the shorter one on youtube.

But I probably won't, but I am curious what there is to see.

What seemed to be a safe place turned into a gigantic oven, R257.

Something I thought Germans were already familiar with.

It's the screams. In that 20 minute video in the Google Drive. As the cameraman goes around the building at the later point - 2+ 3+minutes? When he comes back around the building.. You can hear the shrill screams of people dying- being burned to death. These doctors lie all the time and say people were "dead of poisonous gases"- its bullshit. When you read the witness statements in that google drive, ect, and watch the videos- you realize that a lot of these folks burned to death. It takes the tragedy to another level. The witnesses in their statements and the video proves this. Its horrifying,

Not downloading for me. Is there a trick? Besides being 20 years younger?

So it's only more screams in the video?

The twenty minute video is a few more minutes like R248 There are long shots of the band's equipment, the bartender pouring drinks, both security guys who died talking to each other. It really gives you a sense of a regular night at a bar/club. But the common twelve minute video is the same footage from once the fire starts until the end. There isn't anything additional once it starts and the camera guy backs out of the club.

R260 you should be able to click on it and it will play without downloading anything

Is it that one?

Thanks R263 & R264.

[quote]You can hear the shrill screams of people dying- being burned to death. These doctors lie all the time and say people were "dead of poisonous gases"- its bullshit. When you read the witness statements in that google drive, ect, and watch the videos- you realize that a lot of these folks burned to death.

Tell that to the "Get real" bitch at R220.

Ugh, I just can't with the Google Drive content. Crime scene photos and everything. Why? Why do I go down this rabbit hole?

Yet, despite the highly-publicized horror of this fire, clubs around the world were still lighting pyrotechnics indoors, and disasters were still occurring.

2009: Lame Horse nightclub in Perm, Russia. 156 dead.

2013: Kiss nightclub in Santa Maria, Brazil. 245 dead.

Video below is from the Russian fire. There's an even more graphic video out there on YouTube, of dead people lying in the snow or being placed into body bags.

Around 2006 or so, I was producing a syndicated call-in request type of radio show that was aired in different Top 40 stations around the country. We had an email address and phone number for people to make requests, which I would then sort through and contact the people to get the full story of what song they were requesting and why. If they sounded good and had an interesting story behind the request, we'd set up a time to record them and it would play on the air. I'll never forget... this one guy was a survivor of the Station fire and was requesting a song in memory of his girlfriend who died that night. It was horrifying to speak to him one and one and have him share his story. In the end, I had to wind up heavily editing his interview, as the story was way too dark and heavy for a call in song request show. We didn't mind serious subject matter, but this was beyond morbid. He was a super nice guy though. I don't even remember what song he wanted. Definitely nothing by Great White, that's for sure.

Wow. Video from 2003 looks just as grainy as 1983 now.

I hope the hottie barback in the white tshirt in the Butler Preshow video survived!

This is about the Cornell dorm fire in 1967. It's never been solved. It involved a group of gifted students in the experimental 6 year doctorate program.

When I was in college the local fire department visited my university and the dorms and played a documentary on this for us and advised us how to survive a fire. The mantra was 8 PANICKED AND 8 DIED. As typical heartless jerky college students we joked abou that and we re-enacted the fire while reciting that mantra and crawling along the walls until we found an exit door. It actually wasn't that hard considering there was no fire and the lights were on. I'm sure we are going to hell for that.

In hindsight that was obviously smart of them to do and despite our jerky behavior we were shocked by it and I never forgot that mantra that you need to stay calm. It's like combat, you have to stay calm and rely on your training.

Thanks to whoever linked the Google Drive! heavy stuff

That was me-The survivor/witness accounts sure do have an impact.

I think there was a lot more suffering during that 5-10 minutes that people should have been accountable for.

Burn deaths that have legal cases surrounding them (plane crashes especially- like that 2006 Comair crash in Kentucky) appear to have this did they burn to death or were they overcome by toxic gases war that happens between the 2 parties. One doctor will say they burned, one will say they died quickly from smoke. I suspect from a forensics standpoint it is very difficult to tell..

However, after reading witness accounts and seeing that video, I am not buying that the smoke killed these folks in many of the cases here. These people suffered and deserved justice. And I believe that the Matthew audio recording/tape that they found proves this. The author describes the contents without going into details, but that alone gave me nightmares. (I have forgotten Matthew's last name- he was recording the show on an audio tape-he died in the fire)

You can watch victim impact statements on Youtube and you can tell the families went through hell.

My father was NYFD, what he told me:

Always know where the exits are

Always sit facing the door at a club or restaurant

If you wake up and smell smoke, don't sit up or stand up, instead, roll to the floor and crawl to the nearest exit

If there is smoke, flame or you feel in anyway in danger, just get the hell out. Forget everyone else and your stuff. Group think is deadly.

While watching TV on 9/11: when someone has the choice between being burned to death or jumping, they always jump; after the collapse: they're not going to find any bodies (building collapses often pulverize bodies). From me, forget all the conspiracy theories. It wasn't an inside job. There is no evidence of this what's so ever.

[quote] My father was NYFD

FDNY

Can someone recommend what to look at in the Google drive? There’s a ton of stuff there.

Some of those witness statements on the Google drive docs are pretty fucking heavy

Get over it.

R279=Jack Russell

A terrier?

R17. Northern Kentucky had lavish supper clubs, as the tradition started with the Mafia who ruled all of these places from the the 30s to the 70's. Headliners clamored to entertain at them. There's a lot of money in Kentucky. Old money. Horse people and huge profitable farms. Supper clubs was a money making enterprise and also a front for other vices.

The Google doc - it's like a crash scene - I know I should not look - but I am so tempted!

After I found this thread I read, in quick succession, books about the fires at Station Nightclub, Beverly Hills Supper Club, and Cocoanut Grove. My office just got moved from a very low floor with its own outside exit to a top floor of our (very old) building. There is only one stairway. There’s a fire escape, but my window is sealed shut. I can’t stop thinking about how I would escape now!

R284, keep walking shoes in your desk if you don’t wear them to work. An extra mask or two in the desk drawer would probably be good too.

I used to work in a pretty high building on the top floor. Usually they have sprinklers. We did fire drills once a year. They usually tell you in case of fire, use the stairs. If you’re really worried about it, keep yourself fit enough to get down stairs pretty quickly. Some things I saw that were bad were women wearing high heels that wanted to go down stairs barefoot, which would be horrifically dangerous if there really was a fire, broken glass or debris, and obese people that couldn’t walk down a lot of flights of stairs easily. It’s worth it to know where the exits are and where the staircases are. It’s also probably worth it to keep a small charged flashlight in your desk. Most public buildings have emergency lights that will go on in the stairwells, but if you have a small light that fits in your pocket, it doesn’t do any harm to take it. You might also have to evacuate due to earthquake or loss of power or some other reason.

The worst thing about office building fires is the plastics and synthetics burning off poisonous gases. If there’s a fire in your building, just leave. Smoke can travel through a building pretty quickly. Too many bosses want people to stay no matter what happens, until it’s too late. You are responsible for getting your own self out safely, don’t depend on somebody else to make the judgement call. You can always come back in if there’s a false alarm.

R258, regarding bosses, there was someone I heard of who was working in Tower 7 on 9/11 and his manager told everyone to stay put and keep working...even after the second plane hit. They finally panicked and fled and she screamed after them that she was going to have them all fired. I have no idea if she survived herself, but let's hope she had a couple extra pounds of ash in her lungs if she did.

Thank you for the great tips, R285! My biggest fear is a crush in the stairwell. The building is old and it has the original internal stairwell. It is marble and uneven and steep, and very narrow. I can’t imagine the scene if there were a panic.

Although as most of the high level people just shut their office doors and carry on working if the fire alarm goes off, maybe I could get down faster!

R287, that’s why it’s best to be the first one out the door.

The day after 9/11, my building had a bomb threat called in. We shared a floor with another business. They evacuated their staff and we could see them down on the sidewalk, waiting for the building to be searched, while we were told not to leave our desks and we were stuck in there. I was on the phone with customers, trying to sound calm and businesslike, knowing there could literally be a bomb in there and I could die any minute. And I was just supposed to walk that off and act like I didn’t care or it was nothing. Knowing my boss was a workaholic and would never let us out of there no matter what happened. I spent the afternoon thinking, I came in for this?

I found out later another friend that worked somewhere else had also been evacuated due to another bomb threat. Somebody was just calling in fake threats. But their boss let them wait outside while the building was searched too.

After 9/11, a lot of people I knew were saying to themselves, do I really want to do this for a living? Do I really want to live here? A lot of people were tired of being treated like cannon fodder because of shit like this. You have to think for yourself in these situations. Don’t let somebody else tell you to stay someplace dangerous, ever. Especially if smoke is involved, building A/C systems can spread smoke quickly and it takes a while to get out of a tall building, or a crowded venue. Leave first, think later.

That’s horrible. Profit over people, love corporate America.

I’m also going to see if there is a way I could access the fire escape, but the window definitely isn’t meant to open at this point.

We did have an active shooter a few years ago and the powers that be didn’t or forgot to tell an entire auditorium of people who stumbled out clueless as to what had happened. No one was injured thankfully.

[quote] There’s a fire escape, but my window is sealed shut. I can’t stop thinking about how I would escape now!

In case of an emergency I would not hesitate to use my desk chair to smash the window in order to access the fire escape. If anyone questioned me afterward, I'd say "I heard the fire alarm and smelled smoke" and let them prove me wrong.

You could always be proactive and notify the local fire marshal of unsafe conditions and ask for an inspection

I don't understand employers trying to stop their employees from leaving during an emergency. Report them to the fire dept or police or OSHA whatever. Also drop a call to the local media.

No one should be too afraid to get up and leave.

OP, ask your employer to explain the emergency procedures in place to the employees. Maybe get the fire dept to come talk to you about safety practices and recommend company policy. Also get the company to pay for masks for you in case of forced evacuation. Or at least reimburse you for your own purchase.

Get your desk/office situated near an exit.

Volunteer to be a fire marshal/liaison for the office or whatever they're called.

Ever since my subway system had a fire and death I carry a small flashlight. I looked through Amazon for a mask that would be effective and easy to carry but I never got as far as buying one.

They had to use all three of Rhode Island'sfire engines.

There's a new book out called "Trial by Fire" that explores the fire at The Station and the aftermath. Heavy recreational reading if you're into it.

Your right, OP. So strange that pyrotechnics going off in a low-ceilinged, over-crowded, tinder-box space full of drunks and with inadequate exits led to a quick sizzler and smoker fete.

It's downright weird.

Pyro had been let off without incident in there before, R294, and as far as the patrons knew the building had been inspected and found fire code compliant (to the extent most of us ever even think about that in our regular lives going in and out of public spaces). Not a good idea obviously in hindsight, but a scary lesson in how disaster can spread so fast. Less than split second decisions/ opportunities/ instincts separated life, even with serious injury, from a horrible death. A reminder of how random things are under an illusion of control.

I lived in Boston at the time and it seemed like it fell out of general discussion fairly quickly. Working class people in a dead end place watching a has been band, so maybe people thought it couldn’t happen to them because they’d never go to such a place.

[quote]I lived in Boston at the time and it seemed like it fell out of general discussion fairly quickly. Working class people in a dead end place watching a has been band, so maybe people thought it couldn’t happen to them because they’d never go to such a place.

You really hit on something. If it had been more of a middle-class audience in a "nice" venue and the band was somebody like Dave Matthews (very popular at the time, middle class whites loved him) I think a tragedy such as this would've gotten a lot more attention, and been in the news and on people's minds for quite awhile longer than it was.

As it was, it was a shitty bar in a shitty town with a has-been 80s hair band that most people had never even heard of and the victims were very blue collar. There was a lot of classism going on in the way the story was handled.

I met Jack several times, with his little Igor side kick who lied and said he was dying of cancer (!). Both were true bottom feeders in every sense of the phrase, I cannot emphasize the desperation and codependency enough — they were quite the pair, and Jack was his own shade of Howard Hughes. Penny Road Pub, Barrington, IL, maybe early to mid 90’s??? It’s all a blur.

The first time I stayed at a high-rise hotel, my room was on the 15th floor. I was pleased that there were fire sprinklers throughout the hotel. Once I got situated, I went out in the hallway and counted the number of doors between my room and the stairway. People that survived the MGM Hotel fire in Las Vegas said the smoke was so thick, that it obscured all the lights and exit signs. I think I mentioned it before, the fire was contained to the casino but most of the people died in the tower of smoke inhalation after the fire was extinguished downstairs.

This is a great thread. The most important thing to learn is always make a mental note of where exits are everywhere you go. Notice if the windows can be opened or not. If you see fire, GET UP AND GET OUT. Lots of people are afraid that other people will think they're crazy or that they'll get in trouble if they cause a scene in public or in the workplace. Fuck it. Your life is the only thing that matters. Don't care what other people think, if you see fire just GTFO of there, nothing else matters.

Damn, that Reilly bit was so sad.

I’m not sure the circus was ever allowed back in Hartford. I know there was one little girl who died that was never identified.

R300, B&B did play in Hartford for their farewell tour and I believe there was a memorial service incorporated into the performance.

It seems odd to think of it, but circuses are pretty much over.

R293 From the synopses I have read, Trial By Fire attempts to minimize the responsibility of the bar owners and paint them as additional victims. What was your take? Personally, I think the brothers should be rotting in jail.

Is it morbid that when I watch the 10 minute video taken right before the fire started, that I want to know whether each of the people shown in closeups survived or died?

R303- No. That' human nature. There is a post above that details some of the people , their names and status.

[quote] I used to work in a pretty high building on the top floor.

Always wanted to do this, now not so much.

How high do fire truck extension ladders reach? Don’t stay in a hotel above that floor.

And a reminder that the Trump Tower does not have sprinklers because of some bs Trump maneuvering.

[quote] Nevada now has the strictest fire safety laws in the U.S.

True, I was working for a now-defunct retailer and we were opening a store in the Fashion Show Mall. The server was in the back office and normally I'd just run a long ethernet cable from the office to the registers out front by tossing it up in the drop ceiling. Nope, not in Las Vegas. As a result of the MGM fire, all cabling had to be in a metal conduit. The contractors knew about this and had run the necessary conduit, and it was no big deal to do it properly, but if the inspectors had found loose cabling up there, we could've been shut down.

I have been actually shocked the few times a fire alarm went off in my office - a NYC highrise - and people asked 'what should we do?' or just stayed at their desks. I was out of my seat and down 26 flights of stairs in about four minutes. And I'm not in great shape lol.

Fascinating, r307.

(Not snark, either. It really was.)

Not entirely on topic...but I always used to be angry that they tore down the magnificent old Singer Building in New York, which was once one of the worlds' tallest. I found out recently that it was in part because the old building could not be brought up to code for its height in terms of fire safety.

Just read the book about this. Interesting read. Really tries to take the blame off of the brothers who owned the place. The videos on that Google drive are insane.

I'm not sure why whoever uploaded the video at R248's link felt the need to add in a remixed version of the theme from Dallas. Also Ty Longley the guitarist from Great White that perished, looked back right when when the fire started but continued to play for a brief moment.

[quote]Really tries to take the blame off of the brothers who owned the place.

He worked with Jeff Derderian at WLNE, and he's probably a Datalounger.

What is now at the (former) location of The Station? Parking lot? Condos? Memorial park?

A memorial park.

[quote] A memorial park.

That's far more fitting than the million-dollar condos that were built on the Cocoanut Grove site in Boston. I am not superstitious, but no way would I want to live on the site where so many people died a violent death

[quote] I am not superstitious, but no way would I want to live on the site where so many people died a violent death

Oh, please. You believe that hooey?

R316, I went down a Cocoanut Grove rabbit hole the other evening. If you scroll down there is a diagram of the club's footprint imposed on the current topography. The address to the main entrance of the club was 17 Piedmont St., now the door to a condo.