Moving to San Francisco

it's the shit!

Don't come back now. Everything is shut down and restaurants and bars are permanently closing left and right. The homeless problem continues to escalate. The city will not be the same after COVID.

There is app that acts like Waze but for poop--it shows you where the latest shitting spot is. I don't know of any other city that has that. That tells you everything you need to know about the city--poop and needles.

What neighborhoods are you interested in. Will you be employed? Have you visited lately?

I'm from SF but moved a few miles north years ago. I have friends there who love it. One complains of car windows broken several times. Another friend who's still there says its a shithole now. Police aren't enforcing certain laws due to Covid, and the crime and filth from homeless is out of control.

I just go into the City now for museums and shopping. I still love the place. It will always have it's ups and downs but the beauty of the geography, diverse neighborhoods, and architecture will never fade.

R4, again, I also go to see friends, dine (not recently), go to the theater and hear concerts. Honestly, I know horrors are happening but I always have a good time.

I never lived there, OP, but I got around many times. I liked the Golden Gate Park area. It looked livable and not too fancy--great fish place called Pacific Fish. The museums are amazing. Have fun, you lucky duck.

R6 you're thinking of the Pacific Café. One of my favorite places to go after an afternoon at the Legion of Honor.

That's right, R7. God, great place. Last time we were in SF we were more downtow-- we ate in a little place called "Heaven's Dog," kind of Chinese fusion or something. So stunning inside, great drinks and food. I'm sure it disappeared due to no middle class to support it and now covid.

Is the Squat and Gobble still around? Good burgers!

The coastal cities of California are slowly becoming extensions of China and Japan. I was surprised at how many Asians have taken up residence in San Francisco. If you can’t afford the cost of living, you could join the growing population of homeless people. The number of encampments is staggering not to mention the amount of used needles and shit piles that litter the sidewalk. Why do the people that live there tolerate it so much?

Last 10 years or so, SF is a lot of rich kid “artists”, Asian expats, tech bros and homeless. Still beautiful, now boring and dirty.

[quote]The rents have come down to a price I can almost afford.

But still exorbitant, especially considering you're paying for a city that, on a good day, is a husk of its once-great self. I'd consider going back, but only via a time machine.

So many scat queens on DL - who knew?

r9: The one in the Castro is now a Mexican restaurant, but the one in West Portal is still there (takeout only now, obviously) - as is the one in the Marina, but who cares about the Marina?

[quote]The city will not be the same after COVID.

We can only hope.

Rents have indeed come way down - a person earning minimum wage ($16.07 an hour) can now afford a mother-in-law unit or studio in the Richmond or Sunset. The "techxodus" is in full swing, and good riddance to them too.

What is the scene like now in SF?

R16 There is no scene. Literally, everything is shut down now. For a while, you could drink outside at the bars, but you had to order food. It's just not the same. And the Badlands bar in the Castro has permanently closed. I expect other bars to close, too, if things continue as they are now.

Badlands is owned by that hideous evil dwarf Les Natali. Again: good riddance.

[quote] It's an odd thing, but everyone who has ever disappeared is said to have been seen in San Francisco.

R17 Apologies. I meant generally. If the bars, cafes and gay shops could open, is it still vibrant or is SF's gay scene declining?

R20 It's declining, and COVID isn't helping. There really is no "gay scene" right now. Don't know what things will look like post-COVID.

Hmmm that's such a shame. Gay places were struggling worldwide before Covid. Will be interesting to see what the new normal will look like in a post Covid and high unemployment world.

It's a boring city these days, even moreso now that everything is shut down (and many businesses permanently shuttered or very close to it) as a result. The last 7 years or so it's become overrun with tech millenials who only look down at their screens all day long, any and everywhere. There are no interesting places to be because everywhere is overrun with phone zombies. People were always insular and provincial here, but now no one talks to anyone except the mentally ill homeless talking to the zombies in their minds. Minorities, working class, older longtime gays and lesbians visibily resentful of the takeover but ultimately helpless to it all. Older affluent residents even more stuck in their bubbles and not popping out any time soon.

Unless you are well-educated, shitty jobs are scarce and infiltrated by bitter wage slaves or millenials forever stuck living with their parents.

Even with reduced rents the City is still expensive beyond belief from food to transportation to consumer goods to housing, which is still ridiculous for shoeboxes above shit and trash infested streets.

Forget buying a home, friends and colleagues bidding $700,000-$900,000 on 1950s shitholes are being outbid by $100,000+ tech and/or Chinese cash offers in shitholes like Concord and Hayward. Forget looking in the City unless you want a 600 square foot condo with $800 monthly HOAs and $350/mo parking spots (if you're lucky).

We're in the East Bay now with a home we were lucky to nab post-2008 recession for a steal. We rarely venture into the City these days. Looking forward to when we can retire and move out to Palm Springs or Puerto Vallarta although the former is now fertile overbidding ground for fleeing San Franciscans).

Don't do it.

I moved here in 1995, I've been wanting to leave for years. At some point, I will leave, I just don't know where to go next.

I've moved out of SOMA early '10s to SoCal and flew back every other wk for work in FiDi until Covid. Having lived there since mid-90s and as mentioned above, SF is a "shell" of what it use to be. With that said, however I would consider moving back . . . if salary doubled

For double the salary you would be better off anywhere else.

Money would be paying for history, not the present.

The downturn may be short-lived. If you want to lock in a nice low rent, now’s the time.

I'm staying in SF for another 2 years tops. My salary is probably the highest for my profession out of all the places in the US, so I'm trying to max out of 403/ 401K contributions before I move from this city in decline.

The rent here has decreased but it's still way overpriced for what you're getting compared to other cities. I'll be settling in the Austin area once I leave SF because part of my family is there and I already go back and forth. For what I'm paying in rent (1BR apartment without parking) here now I can live in a luxury 2BR apartment with all the amenities including top of the line gym, pool, and parking. I wouldn't have to avoid mentally-ill/ druggie homeless walking from my car parked 2 blocks away to my apartment. I won't have to fake nonchalance and no eye-contact when I pass a potentially violent, street person muttering loudly to himself/ herself, in hopes of not attracting his/ her ire hence inviting being spit on or worse, attacked. I've lived here since 2003 except for my one-year LA experiment in 2005. SF has definitely changed for the worst because the city is asking us to put up with more abnormality, more crime, and more pretension that the city is a world-class city. It's not, it's a city that hit the jackpot in terms of being surrounded by high tech, biotech, pharmaceutical, and other highly specialized industries.

R10 Interesting that you see Asians and automatically think they're not Americans but from "China and Japan". You and R11 must not be natives of SF Bay Area, I hate to break it to you but SF/ SF Bay Area has always had a large Asian population, expats or not. Asians in SF are the least of the city's problems yet you feel it necessary to single them out.

By Asian expats, I was talking about the nouveau riche type with money from China and tech workers. In my opinion, those types do make it more boring. I know there’s a large historical presence of Asians, especially Chinese in SF. I should have been more clear.

I am in Seattle, true. my sister and her family have lived in Hayes Valley for 15 years, and I visit frequently.

She also says the Walgreens across the street is basically a shoplifting free for all.

[quote]The "techxodus" is in full swing

Why? Where are they going? Have they all decided to work from home from Montana or someplace? Because otherwise I don't understand why the wealthy tech crowd would be leaving - it's basically their city these days.

You still can’t afford it, honey.

For gays, trans people and white and Asian people the Black Hebrew Israelites are an evil and racist scourge. San Fran allows their vile hateful speech and violent behavior.

Don't bother, OP. A few years ago, Gump's closed.

That was the only thing that justified the whole shitty city. And now it's gone.

R30 - that’s exactly what they’re doing; moving to cheaper places, at least temporarily. Once enough people get vaccinated and restaurants and clubs reopen, many of them will come back.

OP here. Thanks for the many replies guys. I suppose I should have given some reasons why I am hoping to move back to SF. I left there after living there for around around 20 years and then moved to Cairo From there I was in India for several years but then returned to texas to deal with my ageing parents. My vision has deterioted to an expent that I have had to stop driving. I still can see but not well. I figure a smaller place like San Francisco would be easier to deal with. The public transportation system is great compared to what I can find in Austin. I considered a central apartment in Phoenix also but it appears to be nothing more than a strip mall these days. The biggest issue is the public transportation but I do miss the arts as well. I realize none of this is going on now but coivd will be over soon enough. Also, I am so tired of the Republicans in Texas. That enough is reason to move back to California. I looked on Craigslist and see studios for around 1500. That seems pricey but keep in mind there will be no transportation costs being I will qualify for free Muni. Also gas and lights are much cheaper so 1500 is really not so much more than I am paying now. I wonder if I can go out and visit now and perhaps rent a place before things pick up there again.

Tech will be back.

All this WFH forever is BS. They are bleeding money on office rents usually locked in at 10-15 year leases.

Once COVID becomes passé they'll start sending out messages "you can WFH, but you'll miss out on the collaboration and synergy in the office" (i.e, you'll be first on the layoff list, last on the bonus list."

R36 SF public transportation these days is a shitshow. See the shit theme?

MTA is one inefficient overbloat and the busines/trains are filthier and less reliable than ever. Yes, homeless encroach there too.

Most folks would rather shell out for an Uber, you will be one of them too, so be prepared for the $10+ fares for 10 minute rides here.

Muni still has a limited number of routes. No subway service, although they’re promising the N-Judah will return in March (BART is still running but at greatly reduced frequency and closes at 9pm).

Frequency of bus service is really an issue tbh. They wanted to up frequency but to keep social distancing, but it’s just not happening.

R30 They're migrating. Bend, Oregon is the next tech start-up hub. Perhaps none of these smaller cities will experience the true SF startup boom, but it is true that they're branching out and relocating to areas that offer 1.) better rent/cost-of-living 2.) ease of transportation to major cities and airports 3.) a young, recreationally-minded crowd who have the urge to "claim their stake"

And for sex addicts, BlowBuddies closed permanently, Steamworks bathhouse in Berkeley hasn't re-opened, San Jose's Wintergarden bathhouse has closed permanently after decades...Eros erotic boutique had re-opened but JO only, six guys max with masks last I read... not sure if Covid's current issues have shut it down again. Nob Hill Cinema closed just a few years ago.

But I read of a recent gay orgy at the gay nude beach...is that true?... Maybe it's a regular scene? Not sure of the name of that beach. If true, then some gays are still livin' it up?

[Quote]People were always insular and provincial here

Oh dear. San Francisco, the birth place of most American post war social/political movements provincial?

R40: EROS has closed again, per the new lockdown mandate.

R40: yes, I observed several guys fucking at the north end of Marshall Beach in late October.

R35 Don't choose SF if you're looking for good public transportation. The underground section of MUNI has been closed since the pandemic started and doesn't look to open again anytime soon. That's been a real pain in the ass for a lot of us.

The museums are also closed again, so don't count on a lot of culture. As for shopping, well, retail is limited to 25% capacity, so the shopping experience ain't all that, either.

The pandemic won’t last forever.

R40 there with the real info we need. 😂

OP, those $1500 studios are located in the neighborhoods that I’m sure you know are not the safest. They’ve gotten worse as in less safe, dirtier, and with more mentally ill homeless/ druggies. To give you an idea, even sedate neighborhoods like the Sunset/ Parkside are dealing with these problems, I can’t go into my neighborhood Walgreens without being asked for money or having to step over a couple of them (drenched in urine/ feces) passed out on the sidewalk. City government isn’t doing anything about public safety or actually providing help to the homeless. They just do more to promote homelessness and public health/ safety nightmare.

Do you really want to live longterm in a 350-400sq ft studio in an unsafe part of city, just so you can cling on to the illusion of what SF used to be or could be (but never will)? Criminals here have become more brazen now because they know our DA won’t prosecute let alone arrest for property crimes. More companies are leaving or planning to leave in the next few years. It was heading towards this but COVID-19 sped things up.

Which neighborhoods are we talking about, with these $1,500 studios? I'd be interested to know.

I just did a quick search on CL and found quite a few in SOMA (which is a ghost town these days), the Richmond, the Sunset, and even Hayes Valley.

Thanks, R49. IMO, those are decent neighborhoods. SOMA, I'm not so familiar with, seems a bit spotty.

Inner Sunset & Inner Richmond have more amenities than Outer Sunset & Outer Richmond.

Not familiar with Hayes Valley, but IIRC, bit swanky?

OP here again. Years back I lived all over SF and my favorite place was Lower Nob Hill and North Beach. I am seeing plenty of 1500 a month studios there as well in all neighborhoods on Craig's List. Is Craig's list the place to go for rentals still? In regards to public transportation I am assuming Covid will be behind us all by the summer or there abouts. I do want to perhaps get locked into a rent controlled apartment while prices are good.

SOMA is nasty - and always has been, IMHO. I lived there for a year in 2009-10 and was SO happy to leave.

Yes, Craigslist is still pretty much the place to go for listings. Just watch out for scams. They're usually pretty obvious.

Hayes Valley was once "the place to be" for (excuse the dated term) yuppies, but not so much with COVID. The homeless problem is particularly bad there right now.

R51, I lived in lower Nob Hill as well. A friend of mine did, too, even lower (further south). He called his neighborhood Upper Tenderloin.

Yes, when i lived there 25 years back we called it Outer Tenderloin. I did enjoy the urbanese of the neighborhood. My next stop was Bernal Heights which seemed like the suburbs to me.

Yes, as with most west coast uber liberal cities, SF has become a complete shitshow and as the cliche goes, is a shell of it's former glory. But the downward spiral will eventually end. The tech giant WFH exodus, Covid, homeless, druggies, etc. have caused such a horrendous change in this city that this may indeed be rock bottom.

Because of it's sheer beauty, creativity and opportunity, this city has successfully reinvented itself a dozen different times over the last century. I'm actually intrigued by how and in what form it will bounce back. It might be a good time to be a part of that.

R51 "I am assuming COVID will be behind us all by summer"

Mary!!!

What the fuck is SOMA? Can't you people spell shit out?

r57 Google is your . . . you know the rest

SOuth of MArket, R57. Waaaay back in the day, the area was called South of the Slot, Market Street having an iron track for cable cars that went down the center of the street. South of the Slot then became a class signifier, the area being less desirable than areas north of Market.

Is Pilsner bar still open?

[R10] LMAO at this: "I was surprised at how many Asians have taken up residence in San Francisco."

& then you sort of redeemed yourself in a later post...sort of.

Was the Badlands even the Badlands anymore without DJ Grampa Sam? No, it was not.

The City is beautiful and we go on.

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I remember SoMa being desolate & industrial, day or night. Also remember the clubs, though, like the Covered Wagon.

r60 - NO bar is open right now, but I'm not aware of the Pilsner having closed permanently. They own the building (I think) so that ought to keep them safe.

Lower Nob Hill is kind of a fun area, as long as you stay north of Geary (or Bush, if you're extra squeamish).

Be sure to wear a flower in your hair.

R33, Gumps has a Christmas store open this season.

OP, like all DL threads, this one is filled with bitter bitches.

I love SF, always have. Been here 20 years now, and slowly worked my way up various ladders. COVID and working from home? Whatever. I'm here, and will continue to be so. The City will bounce back, despite all who decide to bitch about it because they couldn't make it work for themselves and are still envious that they couldn't.

Come back and give it a try again. If it works, awesome. If not, don't be a bitter bitch about it like others in this thread.

The really delicious irony right now is the Marina being an absolute hotbed of crime. All those motels along Lombard Street (west of Van Ness) are being used to house the homeless during COVID, and my Citizen lights the fuck up with day/night crime (“Man swinging machete down street”).

Also Hotel Diva at Union Square area will permanently house homeless.

Aaand right on schedule! 13 minutes after posting, Citizen lights up with a shooting at Bay Street in the Marina.

I’m honestly surprised anyone would want to move there now. The rents were sooo sky high right before covid hit. Very unaffordable. Now I imagine they’ll continue to nosedive. That said i do love the dirty city and i think i always will. If you love sf i do think its worth it but it’s a shell of itself right now. It may be better in 2 years or so.

San Francisco will come back. It's a magical place. The air is like champagne where even the slums have a view just over a hill, and the surrounding areas to the North are inspiring. My favorite trip is to take a car and drive north past Mill Valley and Santa Rosa to Cloverdale and then west through the Anderson Valley through the rolling hills and the Redwoods out to the coast. I used to love taking my tent and some books and camping out at Hendy Woods, placing the tent in the cradle of a cluster of the tallest redwoods along the Navarro River. At a certain point, you can park and walk down to find a tire swing over the river. Then a right turn at the Pacific and up through the pretty coastal towns, fragrant with the aroma of towering eucalyptus trees, through Little River and finally to Mendocino, a picturesque village filled with nostalgia for the days of East of Eden with quaint storefronts and other wooden buildings little changed from a hundred years ago, now turned into art galleries and restaurants selling fresh seafood. You can sit outdoors with a glass of good California wine and watch whales breaching not far off the coast, always a surprise to see them on their way north. When I die I'd like my ashes to be scattered there, blown out to sea with the crows watching from the high point of the strange Time and Maiden statue atop the old Masonic lodge with it's bizarre depiction of a little girl seemingly about to be sacrificed by a figure with a scythe. The figures and the items are Father Time, the Hourglass of Transience, the Weeping Maiden, the Annointment of her Hair, the Acacia Branch and the Sacred Urn, the Sundered Column, and the Book of Light. Northern California to me is another world from the grim boredom of Los Angeles with its flat landscape and clogged arteries.

[quote]...they couldn't make it work for themselves and are still envious that they couldn't.

That's the attitude that makes me hate the place. They claim their little peninsula is an exalted heaven on earth, yet they are the bitterest and angriest people on earth. They don't even believe the nonsense they spout about the place. Just beneath the pervasive thin skin, you always find the anger and resentment. So many really awful people to be found in San Francisco.

Op here. Well, it looks like it is going to happen. I found a place online and contacted the owner. he gave me a tour of the place via video. I have completed the application and sent copies of my income. I am waiting to hear from him but have a very good credit score and income stream so expecting him to say yes. It is strange to rent a place without actually visiting it first. I do know now is a crazy time to do this but I do wonder if rents will not start climbing again soon. Thanks for all the imput. If I were able to drive i don't know if I would be doing this but there are few American cities that are easy to navigate car free. So, SF here I come.

R73 Where is the place you rented?

Sacramento nearLarkin. I am asking for a 6 month lease just in case I hate it. I lived in that area years ago and it was my favorite place to live in teh City.

When are you moving, R73?

Hopefully by new years if not sooner.

R75 - nice area! I have 2 friends who live right near there, and they love it. Congratulations and good luck with the move!

R75, great location.

R71, loved your post. I'm from SF originally and moved north of Santa Rosa a couple of decades ago. I never tire of this splendid region.

So many places have a lot of charm. I love the entire west coast (as far as I've been) from Vancouver Island, Washington state, the glorious Oregon coast, and all the way past San Diego.

But other places have charm, too. Traveling is so mind opening and inspiring but I don't travel very far that often any more.

OP here again. I did get a call from the manager and got the apartment. I am thrilled. I am looking forward to being able to walk places again. Austin has been like a prison for me since I gave up driving. The bad news is they want two times the rent for the deposit. Is that typical in SF?

That’s not atypical, r80. It’s the most they can legally demand.

R80 Yes; that's pretty standard.

OP is getting his first taste of the SF premium.

Hope its worth the price for him.

Bump...

Any more interesting posts? Keep 'em coming, guys and gals!

Grocery prices keep rising.

Hope you’re enjoying this crazy storm.

Moving to San Francisco?

No, don't. Just don't. Do NOT.

OP here. I did make the move. It is hard to actually see what the city is with Covid going on but I am enjoying being in a walkable city again. Yes, there are lots of homeless running around but I expected that. The small studio seems to be fine too. It is great being back in California even if I am in Arizona at the present visiting relatives. The high rent prices do seemed to be balanced out by the lower electricity bill and lack of car.

OP I mean no offense, but it’s kind of sad that you’re moving to San Francisco. You’re trying to live someone else’s 1980s dream of living in one of the best cities for freedom of lifestyle. San Francisco is now broken. It’s dead. It can be revived again, but never to its former glory. I challenge you to find YOUR dream; find YOUR purpose. Don’t chase a dream that’s long gone; don’t chase someone else’s dream life. You seem young enough to accomplish whatever you like. Why not find another place that is new and hasn’t been “done to death” by every stereotypical homo. I think if you just take the time to walk the streets in the Castro, you’ll see an army of the walking dead, remnants from a once great past. You’ll realize it’s not for you to grow and become your best self.

R89 amidst all your blowhard prevarication you forget that part of moving to a new city is discovering it on a first-time basis and SF will always be magical in that way. It will always have its magical setting, the cute little bars and clubs and areas to discover, and the best part of all is you can ignore the "stereotypical homos" like yourself and enjoy it on your own terms.

R89 OP hasn't even finished twirling let alone thrown her hat in the air. LET OP BE GREAT for a minute.

Welcome, r88!

SF is not magical. The natural setting on which the city rests is spectacular. No doubt about that. The view from Twin Peaks or from the Presidio is breath taking. The constant chill and the wet cold air makes the places generally inhospitable.

But look what they did to the natural setting. Miles upon miles of concrete canyons. Drab stucco houses built to the sidewalk and the street. Block after block. Public buildings that are an affront to humanity. The buildings that survived the 1906 earthquake are often very beautiful. Most everything else is pure shit.

What kind of idiot moves to a city during a pandemic?

r94) I did. Actually you guys. i have much fewer choices due to my vision issues. I was spending around 800 a month on Uber before this move being I had to give up driving. In no ways is SF perfect. It does have its problems but mostly I am attracted to being able to walk most places . Where I was living before felt like prison being anytime I needed to go somewhere I had to call Uber.

"I'm blind" is a good reason to move to San Francisco.

Oakland has better weather. Much better.

R95 You don't have to move to a city to be able to walk places. You just need to live somewhere that's central to a supermarket and anything else major your might need. I live in the country now and I'm walking distance to everything essential. Beyond that, there's Amazon.

What is Sausalito like? My cousin lived there for 2 years and hated it but now he lives near the desert in Apple Valley so I wonder ...

Sausalito is hideous, except for a few great views. It's a tiny little place that survives on tourists. It used to be littered in over-priced Erté prints. It that kind of place.

R98 - “What is Sausalito like?”

Here’s a hint, you could never afford to live there. It’s a beautiful place full of tech millionaires and old school property owners who’ve been there for 40 years.

Congratulations on your move OP.

Sending warm vibes up from SoCal.

Like you, I’ve lived quite a few places : within and outside the US.

Am now in California due to family, but your move to SF makes sense given your history and circumstances. There is no doubt SF is challenged (and changed), but that could be said of most of the USA at the moment.

I personally would not be in the US if it weren’t for the connection of family. (Would be back in New Zealand or Oz.) The psychological topography of the USA has not resonated for some time. It has only become more extreme-and pathological-in the last half decade. And now, there are only two states I could live in: California or Hawaii; everywhere else seems to have become infused with aspects of heady extremism.

Welcome back.

r97 - Fortunately for OP, he has moved to a neighborhood that has 3 supermarkets within 2-3 blocks: TJ, WF, and Mollie Stones (expensive local chain).

^ Mollie Stones is great but it's actually 10 blocks away from OP's new home, not 2-3.

Thanks, r103. I live about a mile from two *other* Mollie’s stores, so I guess the distance doesn’t seem like such a big deal to me, but obviously for someone with a visual disability it would be a problem.

Sausalito is a fabulous tourist destination just over the GGB from SF. Very hilly, lots of traffic, but spectacular views and it can get windy and foggy. I love it and visit several times a year. Marin County is glorious, but like anywhere, has it's problems. Expensive, rigid growth control, but outside the main traffic corridors, stunningly beautiful. Muir Woods, Pt. Reyes etc., are wonderful to visit.

I'm a native of San Francisco, lived in the Bay Area my entire life. SF, the Peninsula, a short time in the East Bay, and now in the North Bay. It's amusing to read these threads. So many opinions, with an element of truth in all of them. Beauty, culture, work, relationships are what you make of where you are. I love my hometown and state with all my heart. I also love to travel and find beauty almost everywhere I go. There's a reason why CA is so expensive. It's drop dead gorgeous. It's the crush of humans that mar the effect.

People still come for the dream and dreams still do come true. Nightmares happen, too. Many people are leaving the state, but that's OK, human history is filled with migration.

A friend bought a houseboat on the Main Dock back in the 80s. I think she paid $200K for it. She's still there and now SHE's in her 80s. Another upvote for this scenic little waterfront village. Recommend Poggio's Trattoria!!

What are you talking about R89? SF is a great city and OP is smart to take advantage of the cheap rent now. I moved back to LA, where I am from, right before the pandemic from SF. Rents were almost double what they are now. The city will bounce back and it's certainly better than Austin, where OP is from. I'm thinking of taking a page from OP's book and grab a cheap apartment. LA is just a cesspit and I could afford a much nicer place in SF this time. As soon as COVID is over, people will return to the cities and the rents will skyrocket. This is the perfect time to try a city like SF or NYC, which would not have been accessible to most nearly a year ago. If you are single, youngish, and can afford to, why not have new adventures. Life is short.

It took about a decade for the City to turn into Techielandia. IMO, it was better than the self-indulgent Hipsterlandia. It felt like the City was contributing to the world again beyond burrito-fads and craft cocktails. So sue me.

The thing is, I don't think Techies ever loved SF. They loved the money that could be made here with the opportunities here. The pandemic changed that and I don't think it will ever return to its tech hub status.

I hope whatever replaces them remains productive and forward thinking. The city needs progress to clean up its issues, not more people who want to escape living like the rest of the world does (i.e., hippies and hipsters). Again, sue me.

Techies loved the money and being included with the cool kids (who are all tech nerds) for once. I love SF, but the aspie, corporate tech culture is against what I stand for. I am on an old millennial/young gen x. Corporate goes against everything my generation stood for. They would swarm into the city for the epic salesforce convention, proudly wearing their name badges like it was a designer label. I would NEVAH wear a name badge and matching corporate backpack! Anyway, I still miss SF.

Awful climate. Unswimable ocean. Dreary.

With climate change, SF weather is almost perfect. Over the last few years, the average temp is around 65, sadly a lot less rain hence the crazy fires near the city, and it's not the unbearable summer heat of SoCal in the summer. I love SF weather. I think it really is the best in the US.

Easily offended but don't seem to mind living in human feces.

The human feces and syringes are real. That is not an exaggeration. I have seen someone literally have explosive diarrhea near the Westfield shopping center on Market. It would be like taking dump on Wilshire Blvd. The absolute best gay bars are in SoMa. Hole in the Wall is the coolest gay bar I have ever seen, ever domestically and abroad! I hope they all survive the pandemic.

R111 - I ride a motorcycle (don’t even have a car) and I think SF’s climate is absolutely perfect - almost never too hot or too cold.

And I’m sorry to disappoint the scat queens and motorcycle-hating prisspots, but it’s been *at least* two weeks since I’ve crashed after skidding on the 6-inch-deep layer of shit that covers every square inch of The City.

R109, the techies are all moving to Austin now.

OK - which would you choose LA or SF? LA is home, I like the people slightly better here, it's cheaper in terms of day to day living, there parking for a car bigger than a mini, and I like the SoCal pursuits better than NorCal (I'm more a Palm Springs, beach, Vegas destination vs. Napa, Tahoe, etc). SF has better weather, the people are nice, I love how small the city is, and I don't worry as much about superficial things like trying to always look hot, etc. You can geek out there.

It's lovely, I had a mother who lived there once.

R116 LA appearances can be exhausting (lived there for 15 years starting at 18). Fortunately that was my prime and it didn't take much except 20k in credit card debt to have fun.

SF and in my 40s now and partnered. A lot of money can be made here. It also takes a lot to live here. More value for your buck in LA (although the divide is fast closing).

If I wasn't making the best money of my life here, I'd be back in LA with my partner. People are just weird and cold in SF. Simple daily interactions at the gym, stores, street, etc. are met with pure bewilderment to hostility, even with a smile on your face.

People literally only want to interact with their small self-ID bubble and tune out everyone else. We've never gotten used to it and never will.

I'm sure the typical "not my SF, it must be YOU" crowd will chime in, but I suspect they are speaking from their own bubble through the detached anonymity of Datalounge.

Plus everything in SF is so much more competitive due to literally space and weather constrictions. People can spread out and be out. In SF you are literally on top of each other and have to jostle your way through everyone for most everthing.

Homes are smaller, offices are smaller, stores/restaurants/etc. are smaller.

Even the hiking trails are narrower here.

Yet everyone closes off those they share the space with.

My last home in SF was over 20 years ago in a rented Victorian in Glen Park, a great neighborhood in SF, close to a bus stop. Hilly, charming, everything you could want in its tiny downtown.

I had a small front yard, enclosed by a privet hedge and a gate. I literally filled a bag of trash every week, stuff people just tossed on the street.

But, I grew big red geraniums and someone left a geranium poem on my gate one day. The sandwich shop owner across the street.

The soot built up on the interior window sills from the traffic was hard to clean, but the expansive view of the hills to the south was great.

I'd get criminal children coming to the door trying to sell me fake raffle tickets and such. Aggressive realtors wanting to buy the place. A creep stole a potted plant from my porch. But there was a cinnamon bun bakery up the street, a pizza place, hardware store, library, coffee/breakfast place, florist, Chinese food, within two blocks.

Several murders happened in the neighborhood during the 8 years I lived there, one a gay murder in the dungeon of another charming house. I witnessed two stabbing victims from my windows right after they happened on two separate occasions. When we learned a hot prowler was haunting the nabe, breaking in when people were at home, I armed myself with a baseball bat under the bed. Apparently everyone else did too because someone beat the shit out of the burglar soon after.

I had a garage and idiots would park in front of it in spite of a No Parking sign. Once my my car was badly damaged by a hit and run. Parking can be a bitch, traffic, too. Now I hear car windows are frequently smashed to get inside.

I love the City but when it was time to buy I moved about an hour and a half away. I still get to SF fairly often (not much since Covid) but I don't miss the stress of living there.

I lived on Guerrero and 21st in an apartment across from an building where a couple of porn stars took up residence. They would put on sex shows in their bedroom window. Never found out their names. One was blonde and one brunette. Both gorgeous. We'd alert the neighbors when it was showtime, make popcorn, and pull up chairs to watch. Fun times.

I used to live on Guerrero between 15th and 16th street twenty years ago. There was a neighbor across the back yard who was always jacking off in his window. He was kind of hot. I was never sure whom exactly he was targeting (I did not reciprocate). Fun times!

There was a time when I could see my vagina. Fun times!

Remember when window sex was a thing?

Handsomest guy I ever met lives there. Hi, Isaias!

Hi there!

^ miss you, love you

Cost of living adjustment b/w SF & LA is still 35%. Having lived in SF as a gayling and now LA, it would take a big carrot for me to be lured back

LA used to be attractive because it was somewhat affordable. Now it’s gotten as insane as SF and NY. The 35% difference seems high though it may also be the result of SF becoming even more insanely expensive. The need for a car in LA also needs to be factored in. Both SF and LA have become unrealistically expensive. After 40, it’s time to move somewhere affordable without the hassle and in a nicer space.

Agree r129 - I recall having to rent a garage spot for >$100/mo so could commute to Silicon Vly. In meantime, have to decide on job offer that either relocates me to Seattle or Arlington, VA, both comparable & tad bit more expensive than LA. May decline so can move to lower cost of living mid-sized metros in my middle age yrs

In the meantime, R130, please learn to write in complete sentences. We are gay here. We have to be an example to a coarse and common world of how to do things well.

Garage for >100/mo sounds unrealistically cheap unless it means $700, R130.

R118 - “Simply daily interactions at the gym, stores, street, are met with pure bewilderment or hostility.”

I’m also in my 40s and I wouldn’t even consider “interacting” with a stranger in any aspect of my life. I’m afraid I would be one of those people who looked at you with hostility if you attempted to speak to me. Please take this advice: NO ONE wants to make small talk or be acknowledged by you. Please keep to yourself. I keep my earbuds in public and if anyone tries to look at me or speak to me, I point to my earbuds and look away.

[quote] I’m also in my 40s and I wouldn’t even consider “interacting” with a stranger in any aspect of my life. I’m afraid I would be one of those people who looked at you with hostility if you attempted to speak to me. Please take this advice: NO ONE wants to make small talk or be acknowledged by you. Please keep to yourself. I keep my earbuds in public and if anyone tries to look at me or speak to me, I point to my earbuds and look away. —You are not living in a Disney movie; kindly fuck off

Wow, R133. Anger issues much?

Antisocial is a pathological diagnosis: check it out in the DSM.

No wonder the USA is fracturing; with open hostilities everywhere....even in response to an innocuous post here.

Let me guess, you live in Walker County, Georgia: home of rage-filled Majorie Taylor Greene’s constituency?

Calm down, R134. R133's approach might not work for you in Dayton or Appleton or Taos, but it can be a literal life saver in a major city.

R134 - No, I don’t reside in Georgia. I live in downtown Austin. I don’t understand how you got “anger issues” from my post. I have a finite amount of energy, compassion, and empathy and I choose to give it to the people in my life that matter. It sounds like you have no one or nothing in your life, so you’re one of those people who tries to make “friends” with strangers. Here in Texas we call that pathetic.

No, in Texas, you call it "nice."

Be sure to wear some flowers in your hair, Miss OP.

Even though everyone hates BART, the one thing I loved up until last year was just grabbing my backpack and taking BART (a 5 min walk from my old apt) to SFO for a quick weekend get away. SFO is so nice, clean, and easy. LAX is always so annoying.

I think it's cute that they named a train after a Simpsons character.

OP here. One of the reasons I wanted to move here was the proximity to the San Francisco airport. There are direct or nonstop flights to almost all of the international places I like to visit. I am looking forward life after the vaccine.

Sounds like a great place to live out your golden years

Not just Asian seniors going for a walk are targeted, they're after you too whitey

Frisco never misses a chance to be shallow.

Just another day in The City

Don't forget to pick up a bullet while you're at Whole Foods, ok!

Such a walkable city!

[147] chill out lol

Any updates, OP?

I'm curious: how much is your rent? If you found a place in Russian Hill meeting your $1500 budget I'm very surprised.

Thanks for asking. I did make the move and settled in the Polk Gulch area and not Russian Hill. Since moving I have had to spend a lot of time dealing with family issues in Arizona so have been flying back and forth. So far SF seems like the best place for me. A little chilly this time of year but I am getting used to it. My expenses are actually cheaper than they were before being I am able to walk most places. Right now many of us are wondering what will be left of the city post Covid. I am happy I made the move.

^ Glad to hear it. Thanks for posting.

It's true the expenses of living in the city can be offset if you don't need to pay for maintaining a car.

people do not like SFran anymore. Though give it a shot.

I left San Francisco a few years ago. There was very little gay scene left at that point except for eldergays who'd been there for decades in their rent controlled apartments. Most of the LGBT population had moved to Oakland or even farther out. My roof started leaking, my landlord wouldn't fix it, and I couldn't afford to move anywhere else in the Bay Area for the price of my rent controlled place. It'd be nice if the pandemic ends up giving SF a resurgence. Good luck UP.

R153 where did you move to?

Lolz