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What's your opinion of Student Loan Forgiveness?

I have such mixed feelings. It took me years to pay off my loan. It was a huge burden at the time, That enters into my opinion although I know it shouldn't. Why does the cost of education keep climbing, especially when the first two years are all taught by Teaching Assistants?

Will education be free in the future and, if so, how?

by Anonymousreply 200Yesterday at 1:51 PM

Student loan forgiveness will be just like credit card forgiveness. When you go to file your taxes at the end of the year, you will be kicked in the ass really hard because the forgiven amount will be treated like income.

by Anonymousreply 111/19/2020

Don’t forgive student loans. Just stop charging so much for education as of right now. Let the people with debt either pay it off or apply for bankruptcy.

by Anonymousreply 211/19/2020

It’s really a free pass for institutions of higher learning to keep raising inflation.

by Anonymousreply 311/19/2020

I can see giving people at state schools some help. But I also believe students have to have skin in the game, so, it can’t be free.

by Anonymousreply 411/19/2020

R1 Not if you are insolvent. Also special legislation can make it a non taxable event.

by Anonymousreply 511/19/2020

With McTurtle winning again r5? No way.

by Anonymousreply 611/19/2020

Joe Biden will do very little in regards to student loan forgiveness. He’s talking about a token amount. At one time you could have discharged Student loans in bankruptcy the credit card industry didn’t like it they didn’t even like people discharging credit card debt in bankruptcy. So MBNA’s Attorneys go to bankruptcy law making it harder to file for bankruptcy I am making it impossible to discharge student loans in bankruptcy. This was such a bad llama that the first President Bush refused to sign it. President Clinton vetoed it twice. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton said it was a bad bad law. What Senator Joe Biden who sold his soul to MBNA shepherding the bill through the Senate I am President Bush number two signed it into law. Joe Biden does not care about your student loans. Joe Biden does not care about you all he will do is it rewind to 2016 and then maintain the status quo and the status quo favors Wall Street the banks and big medicine.

by Anonymousreply 711/19/2020

[quote]Also special legislation can make it a non taxable event.

Which means taxpayers have to pick up the cost. Why should I have to pay for the poor decisions of someone who is much younger than I am and has more time to pay it off?

by Anonymousreply 811/19/2020

R7 here. Sorry about the laughable spelling and grammar but I was dictating this into my cell phone but I think U get the idea

by Anonymousreply 911/19/2020

Student loan interest rates are usurious...tie the rate to the savings account interest rates. It's not that people can't pay back the principle, it's that they can't get a handle on the compounded interest.

by Anonymousreply 1011/19/2020

I know too many people who have gone to college for stupid shit that doesn't help them get good jobs. Most of them didn't finish school and almost all of them have jobs that they could have gotten without college degrees

I don't want to subsidize idiots who weren't even smart enough to pick a decent college major

They wanted to borrow that money and they said they'd pay it back. Most of these people have iPhones, newer cars and spend spend money as a hobby, but they can't pay their student loans

by Anonymousreply 1111/19/2020

They WON'T pay their student loans

by Anonymousreply 1211/19/2020

Cost of 2018 tax cut = $2.3 trillion.

Cost of cancelling student loans = $1.3 trillion.

by Anonymousreply 1311/19/2020

Like the Obamas. What took them so long to pay their student loans? Barack's granny was a bank VP and Michelle had a high paying job.

by Anonymousreply 1411/19/2020

I don't think it should be "forgiven" but I do think it should be allowed to be included in Bankruptcy. It's ridiculous that people can claim everything else in BK but not student loans. There should be rules where, if you have attempted to pay for say, 5 years and your income doesn't reflect an ability to pay, they can be included in BK.

BK comes with consequences. Therefore, it should be used as a last resort.

I took me 20 years to pay back my loans. I paid them in full. But my life has been forever altered by my stupid choice to go to college knowing I was footing the bill alone. My parents offered zero assistance. I believe if I hadn't gone, I would be a homeowner by now, but likely stuck in a shitty job I hate. Instead at 51, I earn pretty good money, but not enough to buy a house in California and not enough to ever be able to retire. I just couldn't afford to save much when my loan payments were $400 per month for 20 years.

by Anonymousreply 1511/19/2020

Two of the popular objections you hear are "i paid it back, so everyone else has to because otherwise it wouldn't be fair to me" and "i don't want my tax dollars paying for xyz even though I don't really know how my tax dollars are spent anyway".

Neither argument holds weight, and both are usually made by selfish decrepit Boomer morons.

by Anonymousreply 1611/19/2020

Took me 12 years, finally finished in 2007. Can I get re-imbursed? I want something out of this, Joe.

by Anonymousreply 1711/19/2020

R16, for those of us who had our lives forever altered by being responsible and paying back what we agreed to borrow plus interest, we are totally within our rights to question how this "forgiveness" thing is supposed to work. Do we get back our money that we paid? I could sure use it. For me it would be about 75 grand on an original loan of 25 grand. That's life changing money.

To say, "just forgive it all" is ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 1811/19/2020

I would forgive no more than 50 percent of someone's loans and tie it to particular occupations and income levels.

by Anonymousreply 1911/19/2020

The best trick here in the UK if your family are very wealthy and will give you an allowance (or a trust) and buy you a house (instead of you getting a job), is to run up a huge student debt and never repay it as you'll never become a taxpayer.

I have a friend who did exactly that and it was written off on her 50th birthday last year.

Or you could emigrate (still retaining UK citizenship) and work abroad, we have no obligation to inform UK tax authorities of earnings as long as we aren't a UK resident.

by Anonymousreply 2011/19/2020

I'm still paying on mine at 45, but I'm with R15.

[quote]I don't think it should be "forgiven" but I do think it should be allowed to be included in Bankruptcy.

I'd like mine to be forgiven but I don't know that it is fair to those who paid theirs in full. They should be treated like any other debt though, and be able to be discharged.

by Anonymousreply 2111/19/2020

A covid vaccine is not fair to hand out in the future because what about my brother and all the other people who already died of covid?

by Anonymousreply 2211/19/2020

It's incredible how much people bleat on about taxpayers paying in this particular instance. Where's the outrage when it comes to bloated federal defense spending, corporate bailouts, churches getting away with paying [italic]zero[/italic] dollars in taxes, farmers getting billions and billions of dollars from taxpayer money, etc.?

by Anonymousreply 2311/19/2020

I'm strongly opposed to this unless the government takes measures to lower tuition. Colleges shouldn't be allowed to hold more than a certain amount in their endowments and admin salaries should be capped. Any college that fails to comply should not receive federal student loans.

by Anonymousreply 2411/19/2020

Read hundreds of opinions on it here.

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by Anonymousreply 2511/19/2020

Cancel them all.

The money that's not handed over to lenders every month goes back into the economy. Everybody wins. (Apart from fuckers who own the loans. But fuck them.)

by Anonymousreply 2611/19/2020

The idea seems to drive some people crazy. Either we do this or we allow student loans to be forgiven in bankruptcy proceedings or some combination thereof + making community college programs free of charge.

People need a way to get out from under. People who graduated in 2008-2010 walked into a dead job market. Many of them took years to reach their intended level of employment, if they ever did. Knowing that even if they crash, burn and file for bankruptcy they'll still have student loans outstanding is disheartening. Have mercy.

by Anonymousreply 2711/19/2020

Yeah, nobody ever rages about those, R23.

by Anonymousreply 2811/19/2020

[quote]The money that's not handed over to lenders every month goes back into the economy. Everybody wins.

Why don't we cancel home mortgages, too? That would be a lot more money going back into the economy.

by Anonymousreply 2911/19/2020

[quote] It's incredible how much people bleat on about taxpayers paying in this particular instance. Where's the outrage when it comes to bloated federal defense spending, corporate bailouts, churches getting away with paying zero dollars in taxes, farmers getting billions and billions of dollars from taxpayer money, etc.?

We complain about that too. You're just one of those uniformed people. I bet you picked a stupid major that has led to a poor paying job

Your major is the most important decision you'll ever make. You should have chose wisely. It's not our fault that you didn't

by Anonymousreply 3011/19/2020

[quote]A $1 billion fund Congress gave the Pentagon in March to build up the country’s supplies of medical equipment has instead been mostly funneled to defense contractors and used to make things such as jet engine parts, body armor and dress uniforms.

Forgive all debt.

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by Anonymousreply 3111/19/2020

I’m with you R23. I’m always shocked at how little people know about fucking corporate welfare, especially.

People are bleating about this because it is easy to understand. “You owe 100,000? You pay back $100,000!” They don’t understand high finance, complicated tax loopholes and strategic bankruptcy, so they can’t really complain about it.

by Anonymousreply 3211/19/2020

[quote]Your major is the most important decision you'll ever make.

God, even for DL, that is dumb.

by Anonymousreply 3311/19/2020

Yale endowment is 30,000,000,000 and Penn State is 4,500,000. Is something wrong with this picture?

by Anonymousreply 3411/19/2020

Wait, missed 3 zeroes on PSU 3,500,000,000 - sorry -

by Anonymousreply 3511/19/2020

R30, you're wrong, you dumb cunt. I went the community college-to-transfer route, ended up in healthcare, and paid off what student debt I did have.

Unlike blowhards like you, I see few winners and no economic benefit to the situation as it stands.

by Anonymousreply 3611/19/2020

OP, why shouldn’t the fact that you paid your loans off factor into it? People who support loan forgiveness always state “just because you had it hard doesnt mean others have to”. But, it isn’t that easy. The money you used to pay back your loans could have been used to buy a house, to invest, to start a business. And now that you paid it off, your taxes will have to go clear the debt for others. That is a valid concern to have.

I can support debt forgiveness up to a point. Maybe about 30,000. But the whole thing? No. That isnt fair to people who did play by the rules. Either that or give the people who paid their loans a chance to qualify for additional programs such as house purchasing loans at no interest, ect.

by Anonymousreply 3711/19/2020

[quote]I see few winners and no economic benefit to the situation as it stands.

Tens of thousands exorbitantly paid college administrators across the country would disagree with you.

by Anonymousreply 3811/19/2020

I'm very pro free public college and pro dissolving federal student loans. Would give an amazing boost to the economy.

by Anonymousreply 3911/19/2020

Forgive the fucking loans and make state schools free or so low cost that they seem free, along with providing more grants to go to private colleges.

An educated population is a benefit to the entire nation, a debt-ridden population is not and a middle class who can't send their kids to college is no help to anyone.

by Anonymousreply 4011/19/2020

[quote] Student loan interest rates are usurious...tie the rate to the savings account interest rates. It's not that people can't pay back the principle, it's that they can't get a handle on the compounded interest.

I went to state schools and my education is paid-off already. If, indeed, these interest rates are usurious, then I'd agree with lowering the rates.

Sorry, I disagree with forgiving student loan debts.

by Anonymousreply 4111/19/2020

R41

A decent compromise might be to remove all interest on federally backed student loans for those with outstanding debt. It doesn't "cancel" the debt, but it would make it easier to pay off. One problem a lot of younger graduates have is seeing the principal going down zero dollars over a decade.

But the issue of exorbitant tuition still needs to be addressed so the problem doesn't come back worse on the next round.

by Anonymousreply 4211/19/2020

There should be student loan forgiveness, socialized medicine, AND low-interest/low downpayment housing programs for the middle and working classes. I'd much rather see my tax dollars going to support those programs than corporate welfare or our bloated military.

by Anonymousreply 4311/19/2020

College shouldn’t be free. It wasn’t free when I went so it wouldn’t be fair if it were free for others. No one should have it any easier than what I had to go through because it wouldn’t be fair to me. I am all I care about. I suffered therefore all must likewise suffer.

Student loan forgiveness wouldn’t be fair to the poor suffering banks and loan servicing companies who never ever catch a break and just want to help people by making money off of interest and late fees. What about them?? Won’t some please think of the student loan industry??

by Anonymousreply 4411/19/2020

The government should provide Univeral Basic Income and free basic housing. Just start taxing the churches to pay for it all.

by Anonymousreply 4511/19/2020

Higher education funding needs a complete overhaul. Look around the world and see which countries are getting the maximum bang for bucks while allowing their young adults to get on with life.

Meantime...give the drowning in debt generation a break. Either a one off debt reduction or allow them to pay the loans back at the fed reserve rate. They aren't responsible for the shitty system they inherited.

by Anonymousreply 4611/19/2020

[quote]A covid vaccine is not fair to hand out in the future because what about my brother and all the other people who already died of covid?

R22 I understand what you're saying.

by Anonymousreply 4711/19/2020

R37 Thanks for your response. Your suggestion about forgiving a certain amount or percentage could be acceptable. I just don't want anyone to forgo an education because they can't afford it BUT I don't want to pay for it. I feel selfish holding that thought.

by Anonymousreply 4811/19/2020

[quote] This was such a bad llama

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by Anonymousreply 4911/20/2020

[quote] A covid vaccine is not fair to hand out in the future because what about my brother and all the other people who already died of covid?

[quote]R22 I understand what you're saying.

You do?!

Equating a plague having a devastating affect on our health and economy and that’s literally killing people and makes no discernible difference whether you agreed to terms of getting it or not with those who have student loans, i.e., money they agreed to pay back and have to pay back?

by Anonymousreply 5011/20/2020

Student loans were mostly predatory - kids didn't really know what they were signing up for.

by Anonymousreply 5111/20/2020

And kids had no parents or advisors?

Kids also had no credit so the lender was taking a risk, hence higher interest charges.

by Anonymousreply 5211/20/2020

r52 what risk? Student loans had no forgiveness. Even if you filed bankruptcy you could not get rid of that debt.

by Anonymousreply 5311/20/2020

My friend went to a Yale Law School, and ran up $100,000 debt. He had one class left, in order to graduate, but he was afraid to, because then his loans would start to come due. What he did was, first, get sober, then he hired someone to help him negotiate. Yale took 10% of his salary for 10 years, and forgave the remaining balance. We’ve lost touch, but it’s been over 10 years, so I hope he managed to finish. I hate owing money. I don’t know if he ever took that last class.

by Anonymousreply 5411/20/2020

[quote] I don’t know if he ever took that last class.

If he didn’t he’s an idiot. Spent $100k at Yale and purposely didn’t graduate?

*sniff, sniff*

by Anonymousreply 5511/20/2020

[quote] R14: Like the Obamas. What took them so long to pay their student loans? Barack's granny was a bank VP and Michelle had a high paying job.

From 2009 until this year, it was more profitable to have money in the stock market than to pay off a loan, if the loan rate is low. My guess.

by Anonymousreply 5611/20/2020

[quote] what risk? Student loans had no forgiveness. Even if you filed bankruptcy you could not get rid of that debt.

There’s a long line between not getting paid back and bankruptcy.

Delinquencies, charge-offs, selling the debt to a collection agency all takes money.

Think of it small: if you ask me to loan you $20 but I’m going to have to chase you down every damn week for the $2 payment until it’s paid off, I want something for that trouble. So I may loan you the $20 with you agreeing to pay back a total of $25 so I’m compensated for the aggravation.

If I’ve never loaned you money before I don’t know if instead of the $2 you’re supposed to pay me back you may pay me $5 a week and be a great borrower. But I won’t take that risk without a history, which you wouldn’t have.

by Anonymousreply 5711/20/2020

I went to grad school, and got loans. I graduated, and signed off on my loan repayment plan. Later. I got a letter increasing the loan amount and repayment plan. I called, but the loan person treated me like a deadbeat and wouldn’t listen. I discovered that there was more money in my “loan account”, for the next semester. I took the money. Then later, they wanted that money back, and I told them they previously insisted that I take it. (It was at a low interest rate). They let me keep it. I paid it off when I bought my house.

by Anonymousreply 5811/20/2020

Why should they be forgiven. Today's kids should be taught responsibility. If you sign your name to a loan paper, you are responsible for what you've agreed to. Forgiving them loans just allows them to develop a sense that they can get out of anything. It's the life that the baby boomers led and the mindset needs to be changed. Take some responsibility for yourself.

by Anonymousreply 5911/20/2020

As a Gen X er, I find the entitlement of Boomers to have found its new home in Gen Z. Me, me, me, gimme, I’m owed.

by Anonymousreply 6011/20/2020

I teach college math. Too many people get worthless degrees, or, sign up to get a degree that will lead to a job, but then they don't do the work. College is the new high school -- everyone goes, but only some people improve their skills. For many, it's 4 more years of baby-sitting and a make-work program for humanities PhD's.

All loans should be private, and should be able to be absolved by bankruptcy (currently they are not). If that were the case, lenders would only lend to borrowers who could PAY IT BACK.

by Anonymousreply 6111/20/2020

I have degrees in three engineering disciplines. That said, I can understand getting a four year degree in the humanities. I’m assuming it teaches you how to learn, and enriches your life, by teaching you who Cassandra is, for instance. Never mind that I learned tea out her in high school.

Four years of art, philosophy, logic, English, bliss!

by Anonymousreply 6211/20/2020

It can’t be free. It has to cost something. Or else, colleges will charge more and more with no limit. I’ve heard that this is why prices have risen like they have for the last couple decades. Also, free college will encourage people to go to school who are not suited for it.

by Anonymousreply 6311/20/2020

It's a tough call.

I feel bad, there are people my age (30s) who are struggling to pay off almost six figures worth of college debt and can't seem to make a dent in it, and it affects their life choices.

OTOH, my father is very against it. His argument is that he purposely chose a career that allowed him to save money needed to pay for college and graduate school for me and my brother which likely came to around $500K. That's money he could have invested too. So why should people who were less responsible, who didn't work hard or save or who took out loans for private schools they could not afford and then chose careers that did not pay very much, be able to get off scot free.

He actually thinks college should be free, but we should use a model similar to many European countries, where most people don't actually go to college, they go to some sort of trade school, but those who do go to college go for free and thus colleges don't need to factor ability to pay into their admissions decisions.

by Anonymousreply 6411/20/2020

^^I agree with him on this, things like "Communications" degrees could easily be taught in a year or two at a trade school.

by Anonymousreply 6511/20/2020

As a centrist, some of you everything free for everyone, really scare me. No wonder the Cubans wouldn't vote for Joe.

Socialism ain't all its cracked up to be kids.

If everyone goes to college and no one pays, a college degree becomes useless.

by Anonymousreply 6611/20/2020

[quote] No wonder the Cubans wouldn't vote for Joe.

Yet those same voters are certainly happy to use up all sorts of socialist programs and welfare and refugee benefits available to them. Hmmmm.

by Anonymousreply 6711/20/2020

R66

As a socialist, some of you "I got mine, go fuck yourself" really scare me. No wonder young people wouldn't vote for Trump.

Capitalism ain't all its cracked up to be boomers.

"If everyone goes to college and no one pays, a college degree becomes useless."

"Everyone" is never going to go to college. "No one pays" is also made-up bullshit. Taxation would pay for higher education under the premise that a well-educated populace is a "public good" like well-maintained roadways and clean air & water. Stop making shit up, rich uncle pennybags. Don't you have some slumlord-ing to do somewhere?

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by Anonymousreply 6811/20/2020

Having lived when College (University) was Free here in the UK (they even paid your living costs), the uptake was lower as the places were limited and you needed very good academic qualifications to even get an interview.

It all changed when Polytechnics (trade schools) were allowed to become Universities and the number of places grew exponentially, people who wouldn't have gotten through the door previously could now take a degree course. This was of course impossible for the Government to fund and student loans were introduced.

The maximum debt for a 3 year degree course is £27,000 ($36,000) in total in England & Wales, tuition fees are around half that in Northern Ireland and still free in Scotland.

We now have a highly educated generation of plumbers, nurses and cashiers.

by Anonymousreply 6911/20/2020

R69

Check out the effects of poor education in the United States and report back here.

Take a tour of Appalachia and check out all the speaking-in-tongues gullible cult-followers who think Trump is their messiah.

Then tell me that higher education isn't a desirable public good that benefits a nation as a whole.

by Anonymousreply 7011/20/2020

R69

Check out the effects of poor education in the United States and report back here.

Take a tour of Appalachia and check out all the speaking-in-tongues gullible cult-followers who think Trump is their messiah.

Then tell me that higher education isn't a desirable public good that benefits a nation as a whole.

by Anonymousreply 7111/20/2020

I think there is no easy answer here because we have to many variables.

You have people going to school to get degrees that they don’t need or will not help further their careers.

Then you have people getting useless degrees that do not help them even a job.

Tuition prices are out of control but that is just half of the problem.

Another major issue is how the loan money is spent, young students use loans as a piggy bank to cover living expenses that they could avoid by living at home or just because they want to spend it.

Years ago kids went to local colleges and universities to help keep costs down, they got jobs during summer breaks too. Now kids want to be as far away as possible from home and their limited skills don’t help them while job hunting.

I do not support debt forgiveness because it will not help our economy. Someone is going to pay for that debt in the long run and that is unfair to those who did sacrifice home and business ownership to pay their debts.

by Anonymousreply 7211/20/2020

Reading replies here it's clear that Americans prefer suffering. Its in their ethos.

by Anonymousreply 7311/20/2020

R72

"Someone is going to pay for that debt in the long run"

Yeah, RICH people through progressive taxation.

Those are the sweet, helpless lambs that you're advocating for rather than the lower classes.

by Anonymousreply 7411/20/2020

I’m not for student loan forgiveness since it’s a slap in the face to people who paid their debt off, however, I am for removing interest from the loans.

by Anonymousreply 7511/20/2020

If anyone should pay up, it is the colleges and universities that "scammed" these people. These institutions should refund part or all of the tuition paid. Otherwise, certainly not the US taxpayer. Many of us figured out how to get a college education without going into hock and figured out how to earn a decent living even if our major wasn't STEM. You took out the loans, you pay them back.

by Anonymousreply 7611/20/2020

College education tuitions have gone through the roof mainly to pay for the huge increase in administrative positions. Also, Victim Studies departments really need to be defunded.

by Anonymousreply 7711/20/2020

R73, it is actually about hold adults responsible for their decisions and commitments. The US and Americans are actually quite benevolent, often to our detriment.

by Anonymousreply 7811/20/2020

Forgive it all as banks and gov worked together to fuck students. I went to Unis in Europe (I'm American) Switzerland and UK so I know what it is to pay fair tuition fees. The USA is a disgrace in this respect.

by Anonymousreply 7911/20/2020

..holding adults

by Anonymousreply 8011/20/2020

Nobody forced people to go to university all four years. These people in debt should have went to community college first and then transferred to university for the last two years. But no, they wanted to go to university immediately so they could party as soon as possible. Fuck them having their loans forgiven.

by Anonymousreply 8111/20/2020

Maybe college professors shouldn't be paid over $400,000 a year for extremely minimal work. Elizabeth Warren I'm looking at you.

by Anonymousreply 8211/20/2020

It's not rocket science homosexuals.

As college became more accessible to more people, the number of jobs that required a college degree did not increase correspondingly.

Thus college degrees became necessary for jobs that previously did not require one.

This meant that even more people felt it was important to go to college because the non-college jobs were the really awful ones.

To meet this surge, colleges raised prices because they knew demand was there

The market quickly began to make a distinction between the top 50 or so colleges and the rest, hence the massive competition among the 15% to get their kids into those schools

Meanwhile the not-top 50 colleges were pumping out receptionists, realtors, insurance salesmen, retail clerks and other jobs for which an advanced degree and $75K in student loan debt was of no real help.

The solution is to limit the number of students who go to college--maybe 10% to 15% of high school graduates--and let them go to school for free. There can be colleges for dumb rich kids, but the government will not pay their tuition and there won't be loans.

Technical schools (which include coding and similar tech skills) and internship programs will replace the hundreds of colleges and they will soon develop a pecking order--some will be hard to get into, and thus prestigious in their own right, and graduates will earn good salaries without going into debt.

It could happen.

by Anonymousreply 8311/20/2020

[quote] I think there is no easy answer here because we have to many variables.

Oh, dear!

[quote] should have went to community college first

Oh, DEAR!

by Anonymousreply 8411/20/2020

[quote] It's not rocket science homosexuals.

Neither is proper punctuation.

What’s a rocket science homosexual?

by Anonymousreply 8511/20/2020

A gay man who works for NASA.

Duh.

by Anonymousreply 8611/20/2020

R77 "Also, Victim Studies departments really need to be defunded."

Tucker? Mr. Carlson? Is that you?

I'm assuming that you're referring to departments like Race & Gender Studies departments that were created in the first place due to the massive and objectively obvious neglect of certain populations within the various scholarly disciplines.

It's also freaking HILARIOUS that you think that departments in the humanities receive enough funding to be de-funded in the 1st place. They're something like 90% taught by part-time lecturers who don't make a living wage. So spoiled, right?

But kicking the lower classes in the teeth even more is the typical response by neo-nazi capitalists when they're confronted with inequalities, so this doesn't surprise me.

by Anonymousreply 8711/20/2020

College is so expensive because every time the government steps in and makes it more attainable, the schools swoop in and eat up that relief. The state schools figure their tuition based upon how much of a loan a student from a middle class family can attain and still squeeze the family to the limit.

I live in georgia and on top of the hope scholarship (which pays 80 or 90 percent of tuition), my daughter also got the Zell Miller which is 100 percent. As a freshman, she was forced to stay on campus and they made as much off room and board as they did tuition which just happened to be slightly above what she qualified for in a loan. Thankfully, she didn't have to take out the loan, but I did sell my motorcycle. This year, she got an additional scholarship and gets money back from the bursars office. It is all a scam.

by Anonymousreply 8811/20/2020

[quote]Another major issue is how the loan money is spent, young students use loans as a piggy bank to cover living expenses that they could avoid by living at home or just because they want to spend it.

Don't overlook book prices which can be astronomical. They also somehow managed to make it apply to e-books. I'd spend about 500 a semester just for books and by the time I paid $300 for a material sciences book my senior year I didn't even bat an eyelash. Also people go to college where they can get into college and most colleges won't let you live off campus your freshman year so you get stuck paying room & board + food. If your major requires a thesis you may also end up paying money for that.

And no I didn't live near a community college I could go to (there was one but it was only for women at that time) so either way I was going to have to move.

[quote]Years ago kids went to local colleges and universities to help keep costs down, they got jobs during summer breaks too. Now kids want to be as far away as possible from home and their limited skills don’t help them while job hunting.

See, you're making blanket statements that don't apply to everyone. Personally, I had two jobs in college. However, I remember in a sociology class of 100 students a teacher asked everyone to had help from their parents to stand up. Nearly the entire class did. Then she asked for people who didn't to stand up. There were 4 of us including me.

Furthermore, I had a scholarship which required me to maintain a 3.5 or above the entire time I was there. To get into my major I had to have a 3.0. Yes, I managed to do it but just barely.

[quote]The solution is to limit the number of students who go to college--maybe 10% to 15% of high school graduates--and let them go to school for free. There can be colleges for dumb rich kids, but the government will not pay their tuition and there won't be loans. Technical schools (which include coding and similar tech skills)

You should want a smarter population. Why people on Datalounge are against that is beyond me. Also 4 year universities give students a general education before they even begin to work in their majors so even if you don't work in your field you still have to learn something outside of it. You don't get that otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 8911/20/2020

R89

The ironic thing is that out of decades of social scientific research examining correlates of homophobia, one's level of education is undoubtedly in the top three correlates and can easily be argued to be the #1 strongest correlate. Higher education (even measured year-by-year as opposed to degree completion) is one of the strongest predictors of liberal attitudes in general, but especially about same-gender sexuality.

But of course, the mouth-breathing capitalist cheerleaders on datalounge are mostly concerned about scary taxes cutting into their couture caftan budget. If they could buy personal bubbles of air to float around their heads constantly, I'm sure they would say fuck the poor, let them buy their own air too and advocate against air quality protections.

by Anonymousreply 9011/20/2020

R89/Everything you just wrote to counter my post is exactly what is wrong with tuition and debt. The decisions taken by higher learning institutions in the last two decades have hurt students.

Book fees are ridiculous and ebooks should have been the answer to keeping costs down, but it didn’t happen.

Schools should not demand that you live on campus, this is an unnecessary expense if you can avoid it.

While most students may claim to have parental support that really varies by student and are not equal, so much for blanket statements.

Right now with COVID raging is the time for change, you can learn remotely in most cases and I hope that leads to driving costs down, but I won’t hold my breath.

Our country is all about screwing us over, no universal healthcare or higher education.

R74 There is no such thing as progressive taxation on the rich, you need to open your rose colored glasses off.

The rich will keep on dodging taxes and corporations will continue to receive tax welfare while the rest of us shoulder the tax burden.

That is the sad truth.

by Anonymousreply 9111/20/2020

Agree that too many people go to college and the value of a degree has depreciated while the cost has skyrocketed.

Agree that too much money is spent on dorms, stadiums, marketing departments, student centers and athletics.

Agree that we should reduce the bite but not give people a free ride. Allowidischarge in bankruptcy, get rid of interest, indexing aid tie relief to income level and profession. I paid my loan off in ten years, made many sacrifices to do it including not taking a vacation, and don't give a fuck if anonymous posters think it's selfish of me not to want others to retire their debt in one fell swoop. It's called equity. You deserve some relief but some responsibility too.

by Anonymousreply 9211/20/2020

In the case of my daughter, she is at SCAD, which is in Savanah. The school is downtown and it is a rough area, so requiring them to live on campus freshman year is not that bad of an idea. The campus security measures are extensive and include protected transportation to the grocery and other local destinations. I did like that.

by Anonymousreply 9311/20/2020

I graduated, went into teaching and then a higher-paying job as a broker, then got sick with something that 16 years later still hasn't been properly diagnosed. Then I was injured in an accident. Everything I paid off toward my loans when I was working full time, plus the income-based repayment I've done for almost a decade, has more than paid off what I borrowed in the 1990s.

The interest rate however has left a balance of $90,000. I only borrowed $37,000.

There must be thousands of people in similar situations. It's stupid and reductive to say that this is just "Millennials choosing the wrong major and being irresponsible," yet that's how Dataloungers always frame it.

Or they say something stupid about "equity" like r92, who clearly doesn't even know what equity is.

by Anonymousreply 9411/20/2020

[quote]You should want a smarter population. Why people on Datalounge are against that is beyond me.

Because the vast majority of Dataloungers are miserable older men who fall back on fascist fantasies to make themselves feel better. They spend hours on Datalounge detailing how, if they were in charge, they wouldn't allow people to have children unless they were of a certain quality, they would only allow a small fraction of people to get an education, they would force people into homelessness and starvation for making bad decisions like getting an MFA in college, etc.

Very few people here care about what benefits society as a whole. They would much rather post at length about why some guy with tattoos or some lady with a mommy blog should get life sentences for offending their delicate sensibilities, than they would talk about why an educated populace is a benefit to us all.

by Anonymousreply 9511/20/2020

[quote] The interest rate however has left a balance of $90,000. I only borrowed $37,000.

See now this I find ridiculous and would have NO problem with the feds stepping in and, not paying it off, but telling the lender “yeah, that’s not gonna happen.”

by Anonymousreply 9611/21/2020

[QUOTE] R93 In the case of my daughter, she is at SCAD, which is in Savanah. The school is downtown and it is a rough area, so requiring them to live on campus freshman year is not that bad of an idea. The campus security measures are extensive and include protected transportation to the grocery and other local destinations. I did like that.

R93 I'm shocked, is that acceptable in the US? I've never heard of protected trips to the grocery store in any Country. It sounds like she'd be safer in Afghanistan or Yemen.

Are the authorities addressing the problem? They should either demolish the surrounding area or build a Police Station there.

by Anonymousreply 9711/21/2020

I don't get the contempt over forgiving student loans. The cost of getting a 4 year degree has skyrocketed in the past 20 years. The quality of education you get from these places has certainly not. You're just accommodating the lenders and keeping curmdurgeon faculty employed.

by Anonymousreply 9811/21/2020

I’m not that poster, r97, but I think he was implying there’s a shuttle bus that would take the students to and from the stores so they wouldn’t have to walk, which would be more dangerous.

I doubt they’re “protected” in a Secret Service sense of the word.

by Anonymousreply 9911/21/2020

[quote] I don't get the contempt over forgiving student loans. The cost of getting a 4 year degree has skyrocketed in the past 20 years.

As has housing costs, yet you don’t hear anyone espousing forgiving mortgages.

by Anonymousreply 10011/21/2020

R99 I'm still not aware of any Country where it is unsafe to walk to the grocery store in daylight?

I've visited a lot of Third World shitholes and if an area became that dangerous the Police presence would soon become overwhelming, usually solving the problem.

by Anonymousreply 10111/21/2020

R94 this happens all the time. I went to a state school for grad school and worked part-time throughout grad school (had a stipend) but just to survive, took out something like $100-125k over 7 years of grad school. Cost of living was just too high for me to keep up, and tuition kept rising each year, outpacing inflation. At the exact same time, the program subsidizing interest on loans expired in 2010 under Obama, so while I was in school and couldn’t pay interest or loans, my interest started to capitalize at a high 6.5%—thousands of dollars per year. I was also underpaid during my postdoc and couldn’t afford to pay on my loans then either, and watched my interest continue to bloat my loans for another 18 months. By the time I started repaying my loans, they had ballooned to $200k, which is crazy. I only took out $100k-125k and interest made them double before I could even START to pay them back. Now I’m guaranteed to have to pay $300k-$400k or more given that I can’t afford to pay more than the barest minimum of a huge ass loan. More likely, I’ll pay the minimum for 25 years and hopefully the rest will be written off. But in that quarter of a century, I’m crippled with debt. How are student loans companies given SO MUCH power? Why are interest rates so high? And why does the US allow interest to accrue while we’re in school?

Yay capitalism! Meanwhile, as a nation, we blame the borrowers, not the predatory system and the CEOs of the loan servicing companies who make bank off of students. This system always benefits the rich and even better, get the middle class to side with you on this by calling students lazy and irresponsible so that guarantees that no regulations will be changed. Ingenious.

by Anonymousreply 10211/21/2020

I’ll add that baby boomers live to brag about working while in school and having either no loans or paying the few loans off themselves 30-40 years ago. Yeah—tuition was super cheap back then and an apartment wasn’t as expensive in those days either. Your jobs after graduation also came with pensions and unions; Gen Z and millennials can’t expect to have the same benefits you had. In fact, our economy has added a TON of gig contract jobs with no benefits whatsoever, which make up 1/3 all new jobs, if I recall correctly.

by Anonymousreply 10311/21/2020

I’ll add that baby boomers live to brag about working while in school and having either no loans or paying the few loans off themselves 30-40 years ago. Yeah—tuition was super cheap back then and an apartment wasn’t as expensive in those days either. Your jobs after graduation also came with pensions and unions; Gen Z and millennials can’t expect to have the same benefits you had. In fact, our economy has added a TON of gig contract jobs with no benefits whatsoever, which make up 1/3 all new jobs, if I recall correctly.

by Anonymousreply 10411/21/2020

I'm fine w. something. Scrapping the interest, as someone suggested? Some formula connecting the amount forgiven to volunteer work? A flat 30% forgiven? It'd probably be impossible to do, but going forward, restrictions on uses for the money?

By the way, I had some Pell grants and some parental help. I needed those loans, knew a lot of kids who got the 'em mostly to have fun over spring break, buy concert tickets, bags of weed, etc.

For various reasons, mostly suspending payments when I was laid off, subsequently scraping by, I got that shit paid off 16 years after graduating.

I'm not out to see people suffer, but there is middle ground between that and everyone walking away from all of it.

by Anonymousreply 10511/21/2020

You graduated? From college?

Jesus.

by Anonymousreply 10611/21/2020

I posted earlier on a different thread. Today's younger generations are getting a raw deal. I'm 57, and probably considered an elder. I went to undergrad school and majored in biochemistry and went on a different path and got an MFA in Film & TV and it took 8 years of college to obtain them. BUT, I did not have the tens of thousands of debt that is saddling today's grads. (I think I owed about $1600.00 to Sallie Mae.)

Since that time, all college Federal student loans was moved off Sallie Mae and now private banksdo the lending for huge profits. I believe this is a gigantic disservice to young adults - to saddle them with this non-discharged debt. This is what our country has come down to.

One idea to remedy the situation is to allow monthly payments to have a ceiling - say of 5% of wages - that is required to pay back the loan. This way, it won't be so high an amount that the student can afford to eat,pay rent etc. We should not allow huge private profits to the fat cats. I don't believe this has ever happened before. If not mistaken, it was that jackass crook retired Supreme Court judge that retired last year. (Forgot his name) and was replaced by Kavanaugh. He also had a son working for Deutsche Bank.

by Anonymousreply 10711/21/2020

I'm old so I remember when a person worked a full-time summer job (usually at a resort which included meals and a bed). Christmas and Easter breaks were spent working retail. This earned enough to pay for a year's tuition. It was all about work and school. Graduated with no debt from my state university in four years (University of Wisconsin).

by Anonymousreply 10811/21/2020

Anthony Kennedy.

by Anonymousreply 10911/21/2020

My cost for room and board and classes was about $1500 per semester in 1978. A friend elsewhere posted his bill from that year, so that the cost. That’s about $6000 today, due to inflation. I went to a state school and it was more than my liberal arts peers because I took engineering classes. Not long before, I understand this state school, UCONN, was free.

Based on this, I do sympathize with today’s students. I’ve heard that the availability of loans & grants has pushed the price up,

by Anonymousreply 11011/21/2020

[quote] I'm 57, and probably considered an elder.

by Anonymousreply 11111/21/2020

[quote] I'm 57, and probably considered an elder.

Oh, honey, do you know where you are?

Probably?

by Anonymousreply 11211/21/2020

Another Eldergay here. I graduated from a state school in 1987. My parents were able to pay my entire costs without any financial assistance. And we weren't rich by any means. Both of my parents worked blue collar post office jobs. Tuition was $16 per credit hour at that time. That would be $38 in today's dollars. I just looked up the current tuition at my school. It's $274 per credit hour. That's seven times the inflation rate. There is no way parents working the kind of jobs my parents had would be able to foot the entire bill today.

by Anonymousreply 11311/21/2020

r57 except college loans are notorious for lending with zero credit. Because they know that debt can NEVER be discharged. It will follow for life. To the other poster on why the Obamas took forever to pay it off. IF you can afford it, some debt it good. The interest can be lower your taxes (well used to not sure anymore with the 10K cap) - versus making money (stocks, bonds, investments).

by Anonymousreply 11411/21/2020

[quote] I don't get the contempt over forgiving student loans. The cost of getting a 4 year degree has skyrocketed in the past 20 years.

So has the cost of a Lamborghini. I can’t afford one, so I don’t take out a loan to get one.

by Anonymousreply 11511/21/2020

R115 But you NEED an education, you don't need a Lamborghini.

by Anonymousreply 11611/21/2020

R115 wow, if you think an education is a luxury like a Lamborghini....what a telling comparison.

by Anonymousreply 11711/21/2020

Does student loan forgiveness include loans to go to private universities? It seems like there are huge differences in cost between state schools in your state and private ones.

by Anonymousreply 11811/21/2020

R116, r117, you don’t NEED to impoverish yourself to get an education, either. State schools are far cheaper. Sure, they may not be Ivy League or where you would WANT to go, but you have to make do.

by Anonymousreply 11911/21/2020

I attended a local university in the mid 90's. I lived at home with my folks at the time. My 3 main expenses were (approximately) $1,250 per semester, paying on a loan I took out for a computer, and my car payment. I obviously didn't have to pay for "rent", utilities or food, and was under my parent's insurance as well. Yes, I worked 3 part time jobs in the summer - line cook, cashier, bussing tables...

I graduated with no student loan debt aside from some credit card bills I racked up, but there is no way that is possible today for a teenager today in the area I grew up in and at the university I went to right now.

by Anonymousreply 12011/21/2020

R119 read R102. I went to a state school!!!!

by Anonymousreply 12111/21/2020

Just fucking pay it off. Hell, we’re so far in debt what does a couple extra trillion mean?

by Anonymousreply 12211/21/2020

Are student loans for grad school included in this as well?

by Anonymousreply 12311/21/2020

I shouldn't have used the word "protected" r97, more like accompanied. And the security around the dorms is tight.

by Anonymousreply 12411/21/2020

R124 Still sounds weird from here in Europe, I've never been afraid to go out alone in any of the 50+ Countries that I've visited. I didn't even find Pietermaritzburg or Pretoria in South Africa particularly intimidating.

by Anonymousreply 12511/21/2020

I graduated in 2010. Tuition at my alma mater was 32k that year. This year it's 49k

by Anonymousreply 12611/21/2020

If the planet and my business holds together, I'll be free and clear of my student loans in 3 years. If Biden wants to clear 10K or whatever of that, I'd be enormously grateful. The fact is that the student loan business is extremely predatory and needs extensive reform. You have 17-18 year olds who have never managed a budget signing contracts that tie them down for the rest of their lives and at least for my generation, all I heard in school was "go to college!"

And then you have this bullshit.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 12711/21/2020

Those of you here supporting some form of forgiveness — please stand your ground on this issue. This is a blight on our society and we must fix it. Don’t let the opposers get to you — note that they never ever ever have any hard data to back up their argument. They only words they like are “fair” and “equity” in reference to THEMSELVES.

by Anonymousreply 12811/21/2020

Young hawt gays, come to Europe, find a nice man from a nice family and marry him. Life in the USA is even more difficult than you realise.

by Anonymousreply 12911/21/2020

I worked for the US Dept of Education’s Financial Student Aid’s Office of the Ombudsman and my job was to review borrower complaints about their student loans and almost every case involved the increase in their original loan amounts due to a deferment or payment forbearance. Typically they applied for these because they couldn’t find work that paid enough to repay their loans and the interest continued to accrue and was capitalized to the original Liam amount at the end of the deferment or forbearance. I found in researching these complaints that they had unrealistic ideas of what they could do once they completed their programs. A lot of these people were the first in their family to enroll in any program after high school and were naive or purposely mislead about the cost and how they would repay their loan debt. So, yes, cancel loan debt that’s been in the books longer than five years and only if the borrower can prove that repayment would be a burden.

by Anonymousreply 13011/21/2020

[quote] were naive or purposely mislead

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 13111/21/2020

[quote]almost every case involved the increase in their original loan amounts due to a deferment or payment forbearance. Typically they applied for these because they couldn’t find work that paid enough to repay their loans

Is it possible they applied for these extensions due to being in school and therefore not having their degree yet, so they can’t pay them back right then?

Serious question, no snark.

by Anonymousreply 13211/21/2020

^^ far too cumbersome. Just strike it all. You know, like bailing out banks or airlines.

by Anonymousreply 13311/21/2020

My guess, r125, is that you are not a 100 lb 18 year old girl. This is mainly for the freshmen who are not always worldly when they arrive.

But you may remain SHOCKED!, lol.

by Anonymousreply 13411/21/2020

R134 Lots of 100lb 18 year old Girls (though at 18 you are legally a Woman here in Europe) backpack all over the World in their gap year, very few come to any harm (they are statistically as safe as at home) and it's usually an overwhelmingly positive experience.

Savannah GA sounds like an Augean Stable.

by Anonymousreply 13511/21/2020

Every campus has school safety officers. When I went to UCLA, there was an entire police force on campus. You could call them up at any hour and they would come to your location and walk with you to any building on campus or to the parking garages. When I was there in the 90's a lot of shit happened in the parking garages with women being sexually assaulted. It's actually a common thing on most college campuses here in the US.

So yeah, women sometimes need some extra protection because men are Neanderthals.

by Anonymousreply 13611/21/2020

From the Wall Street Journal today:

The U.S. government stands to lose more than $400 billion from the federal student loan program, an internal analysis shows, approaching the size of losses incurred by banks during the subprime-mortgage crisis. The Education Department, with the help of two private consultants, looked at $1.37 trillion in student loans held by the government at the start of the year. Their conclusion: Borrowers will pay back $935 billion in principal and interest. That would leave taxpayers on the hook for $435 billion, according to documents reviewed by The Wall Street Journal....

by Anonymousreply 13711/21/2020

Continued

The losses are far steeper than prior government projections, which typically measure how much the portfolio will cost the government in the next decade, not the entire life of the loans. Last year the Congressional Budget Office estimated that the student-loan program would cost taxpayers $31.5 billion, including administrative costs.

After decades of no-questions-asked lending, the government is realizing that it has a pile of toxic debt on its books. By comparison, private lenders lost $535 billion on subprime-mortgages during the 2008 financial crisis, according to Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics.

The effect this time is different. The government, unlike private lenders, can borrow trillions of dollars at low rates to absorb the losses, without causing a panic. But taxpayers will end up paying a price because Congress will have to raise taxes, cut services or increase the deficit to cover the losses.

by Anonymousreply 13811/21/2020

The absence of a cataclysmic event like the financial crisis is removing the impetus for the federal government to change its lending practices, which analysts said have enabled colleges to raise tuition far above the rate of inflation.

“There’s no market discipline here,” said Constantine Yannelis, a former Treasury Department official in the Obama administration who now teaches at the University of Chicago. “In 2007-2008, we saw a lot of lenders who were making risky bets going under. There’s no force like that in the student-loan market.”

The government lends more than $100 billion each year to students to cover tuition at more than 6,000 colleges and universities. It ignores factors such as credit scores and field of study, and it doesn’t analyze whether students will earn enough after graduating to cover their debt.

“We make no attempt to evaluate the quality of the borrower, the ability to repay, the effectiveness of the loans,” said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former head of the Congressional Budget Office who now leads the American Action Forum, a conservative think tank. “The taxpayer ends up picking up the tab.”

by Anonymousreply 13911/21/2020

Isn't the current situation with college (University) kind of the ultimate form of Socialism?

You can attend despite any form of Academic ability and It is funded by loans that aren't assessed on ability to repay.

Our old system in the UK used to make much more sense than the current 'College (University) for all' that is now in place.

My plumber nephew has a degree in Geography and his wife (who's now a midwife) has two English degrees and a Masters, his Brother who earns £250,000+ has nothing beyond high school (6th form) but is a stunningly good tech problem solver.

by Anonymousreply 14011/21/2020

Again, it is the schools that are causing this mess. Even though it is a screwed up model, they should do something like our current medical system. Insurance companies can bargain for breaks because they bring a lot of business to the table. They should do the same thing for colleges. If you get a federally backed student loan then your tuition gets cut down drastically as well as room and board. If the School wants to reap the benefits of the student loan program, they have to agree to more reasonable tuition. Then let the bloated universities tighten their fucking belts.

Is that an original idea?

by Anonymousreply 14111/21/2020

Universities should be co-signers on their students’ loans.

by Anonymousreply 14211/21/2020

Everyone is coming up with complicated solutions to the student loan problem. Let's apply apply Occam's Razor and cut to the most direct solution: all loans should be made by private lenders. The debt should be able to be cancelled in the case of bankruptcy, which is not the case currently.

Private lenders will only lend to people who can pay it back. They will do the necessary research, so poor kids with uninformed parents won't take on $100k in debt that can't be paid back. Because the debt can be cancelled by bankruptcy, the lenders must do that research. Students who really can't pay it back can make the difficult, but sometimes necessary, decision to declare bankruptcy.

The current situation is a make-work program for humanities PhD's and college sports coaches -- one of the main reasons unmotivated students go to college but do no work.

by Anonymousreply 14311/21/2020

The scenario in this link happens quite often which is exactly why this tweet got so much traction.

And yes it is a federal loan and this person has been paying double the payment rate for years.

The problem isn't necessarily that people are trying to get out of paying the obligated amount. The problem is that many end up paying double or triple the amount because regulations surrounding these loans were lax to non-existent up until the last few years when Obama finally decided to do something about it.

Hell, President Barack Obama and Michelle didn't even finish paying off their loans until they were in their 40s and Barack finished right before he was elected to Senate.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 14411/24/2020

Strongly against it. The system does need reform but student loan forgiveness doesn't benefit poor people or moderately well-off people, it is like a large write-off for the upper middle and upper classes since they are the ones who take out most of the loans out there, particuarly for things like law, business and med schoo.

by Anonymousreply 14511/24/2020

go to college

go to college

go to college

go to college

go to college

go to college

go to college

uuuh why'd you go to college if you wanted electricity AND a roof?? you kids are overeducated and over-gay

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 14611/24/2020

Good question. I was lucky in that my parents paid for my education. But now I’m a step parent and my stepson I’m going to one of the most expensive schools in the country. I’ve paid for most of it because I’m a fucking idiot

I’m never getting that money back, but it’s my own fault. So guess I’m in favor of forgiving loans for kids from families under a certain income level.

Oh, and no one appreciates that I’m financing the kid’s education.

by Anonymousreply 14711/24/2020

I’m against it. It’s unfair that I paid in full and others won’t have to. That simple.

by Anonymousreply 14811/24/2020

You're a peach R148

by Anonymousreply 14911/24/2020

Nice angle, R149. Very cutting.

by Anonymousreply 15011/24/2020

Student loan forgiveness is bailing out private universities. These schools should be forced to reach into their massive endowments and cut their ridiculous administrative costs instead of unloading their problems onto taxpayers. $55,000 a year for a degree is ridiculous. They must be held responsible for price gouging and false advertising to students. They knew that people with arts degrees would not be able to pay back their student loans.

by Anonymousreply 15111/24/2020

[QUOTE] R147 So guess I’m in favor of forgiving loans for kids from families under a certain income level.

I doubt that 'means tested' forgiveness is on the agenda in the US, it's too close to your weird vision of how 'Socialism ' works.

by Anonymousreply 15211/24/2020

Why do degrees take four years in the US?

Three years is stretching it out, four is ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 15311/24/2020

Forgive! ...Forgive!

by Anonymousreply 15411/24/2020

“The affluent see Covid as a health problem, while for the working class it’s about economic survival...

“The politicians are even worse. Instead of coming up with a clean Covid bill, Democrats are now trying to pressure Biden into student loan forgiveness.

“Can you believe it? What kind of society thinks it’s ok to ask 12 million people who lost their jobs to Covid to foot the bill for the student loans of the top 40% of earners? Sure, maybe it will accidentally help someone in a food line who dropped out of college. But college-educated Americans are back at work. The Covid recession is over for them. Why are the Democrats designing legislation to help the people who need it least, in the belief that some of the benefits might trickle down to help those who need it most?”

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 15511/24/2020

The COVID recession is over? News to me!

by Anonymousreply 15611/24/2020

The sad reality is that there will be no jobs that over $60,000/year. No matter how much quality education one obtains, there is no there, there. Unless you don't mind working retail and have the most discerning taste.

by Anonymousreply 157Last Thursday at 1:02 AM

What about greater subsidies towards more practical degrees/skilled trades like nursing, education, medicine, IT, medical imaging, electrician school etc instead of loan forgiveness? Majoring in the history of Greek theater is nice, but not very practical and I don't see why people who choose fields with low employment should be rewarded financially. Go study those subjects on your own dime, and if you're really that bright then scholarships should suffice.

by Anonymousreply 158Last Thursday at 2:07 AM

r156 the covid recession is not over but recovery is happening. Jobless rate has dropped every month over the last 6 months. It may glitch back up due to close downs in places like New York, Cali, Minnesota, etc, but that should be temporary.

As far as Student Loan Forgiveness, the US can't afford it. They took out the loan and must pay it back. I paid mine.

by Anonymousreply 159Last Thursday at 3:18 AM

Yet we can afford tax cuts for the rich, aid to other countries and fighter jets that we never use.

by Anonymousreply 160Last Thursday at 8:11 AM

This thread is a great example of why America will continue to circle the drain. Do you all realize how astronomically expensive and overpriced college and healthcare are in the United States? Experts have been saying for years the higher ed bubble is going to burst eventually, just like the housing market.

Instead of talking about that, ditzy Americans can only think about how unfair it is that someone else gets their loans forgiven. The elite, who are slowly taking over the world, could give a shit about you "not buying nice things for years" because you paid back your little loans. They are laughing all the way to bank and want you continue having the "crabs in the barrel" syndrome so the generations after you stay poor as well. Meanwhile, the entire US consumer economy that generates jobs and income for you continues to be eaten away because people are in debt to the government.

by Anonymousreply 161Last Thursday at 9:22 AM

The problem with the current system is that except for extremely exceptional students, many schools and many degrees are only an option for the wealthy, so that those fields are dominated by people with trust funds.

Also, when we talk about "useless" degrees, it implies that college is some sort of trade school. It is not.

And most parents have little idea of what would be effective "trade" training. We have so many students going into specializations like mathematics, psychology, pre-law, and communications--fields with few job opportunities. Those students might do better in less specialized liberal arts majors that would prepare them for a wide range of career options or for a wider range of graduate study.

by Anonymousreply 162Last Thursday at 10:19 AM

Can someone tell us who is going to pay for this Forgiveness?

by Anonymousreply 163Last Thursday at 10:49 AM

I just paid off my last installment in June, so I wished the discussion was sooner but overall I think it is a good idea. I also think it should be gradated. Sink thousands into getting a degree in medieval dance? That's on you, but nursing, teaching, and any other area addressing social ills is fine with me.

by Anonymousreply 164Last Thursday at 10:51 AM

If we cut back on corporate welfare, that will go far to paying for loan forgiveness.

Plus if all those people are not paying off student loans, that money will be spent. This will move money out of finance into other segments of the economy--and the benefits will trickle up. The revenue on a revitalized economy will make the loan forgiveness program pay for itself.

We tried a similar plan for corporations. Lets try it for people.

by Anonymousreply 165Last Thursday at 10:56 AM

[quote]Do you all realize how astronomically expensive and overpriced college and healthcare are in the United States?

This point came to mind reading these responses, specifically those that complain of the high wages paid educational administrators... as though we don't pay healthcare administrators outrageously high wages. Throughout the Democratic primary, the idea of single payer or at least a public option was discussed endlessly, and one Republican critique was that moving to single-payer would wipe out the entire state of Iowa (IIRC) because so many people there work in healthcare administrative positions. Why do we think saving those jobs superior to saving educational administrative positions? Frankly, I think the country would be better served with a broken Iowa and universal healthcare than a rich Iowa and healthcare priced so high that only the rich can afford it.

We love to hash and rehash student loan forgiveness on DL. The last time it came up, I suggested that the government borrow the $trillions needed (since the Federal government can now borrow for 0%) and fund a loan repayment scheme that would allow citizens to apply the forgiveness to any outstanding debt like student loans, mortgages, or long-term debt (I don't think that telling people that "loan forgiveness is coming so go buy a new Mercedes" is a good idea unless you're a car dealership or car manufacturer). Short of outright loan forgiveness, all borrowed money should be treated equally, meaning student loan debt should be as dischargeable as credit card debt (and yes, I know that the bankruptcy laws were re-written in the 90s to make credit card debt largely nondischargeable), business loans, mortgages and the rest. Of course, you can't lose your education like you can lose your house in bankruptcy, so there is that.

by Anonymousreply 166Last Thursday at 11:13 AM

[quote] I suggested that the government borrow the $trillions needed (since the Federal government can now borrow for 0%) . . .

R166, the gov't isn't really borrowing money anymore, it's printing it. The gov't issues debt to the Fed, the Fed puts that "asset" on its balance sheet, and hits a computer button to create $. The Fed is part of the govt, so there's no borrowing, just creating more money. If you've saved anything, it becomes worth less every time the govt prints more.

I agree w 151, student loan forgiveness is a bail out to universities that hand out useless degrees -- either frivolous majors, or "C" degrees in seemingly employable majors (business, etc.) where the kids haven't really learned anything, because the college doesn't fail them when they do no work. If they did, the money would stop coming in the door.

by Anonymousreply 167Last Thursday at 12:01 PM

Is there another country in the world where you have to go deeply into debt to get a college education?

by Anonymousreply 168Last Thursday at 2:01 PM

I don't know 168, but in countries where they have free college, NOT EVERYONE GETS TO GO!

In the UK, you have to pass exams. You don't get to go to college for free to major in Theater Studies. You don't get to go to college for free if you don't have the grades & test scores. You don't get to go to college for free to spend 4 years partying.

by Anonymousreply 169Last Friday at 4:50 AM

Higher ed needs to re-invent itself. Costs for brick and mortar have spiraled out of control. Offer a bunch of classes on-line, and get rid of half the faculty. Stop paying bloated salaries to administrators. But for Gods sake, do NOT forgive student loan debt because people need to have skin in the game. What's next, paying off everyone's car loans?

by Anonymousreply 170Last Friday at 5:22 AM

I read somewhere that there are billions in unspent Covid funds, which Mnuchin is planning to dump back into the general budget before Biden takes office. Well, fuck it... if the money isn't going to help with Covid relief, how about using it to bail out former students with debt. That gives the former students some breathing room to do things like order take-out from struggling restaurants, pay rent, plan a vacation post-Covid, finally save for a down-payment on a house... all activities which will trickle upwards, as someone else remarked. Taxpayers will be rewarded with a booming economy.

by Anonymousreply 171Last Friday at 5:47 AM

I didn't have to take on a lot of debt. So this is not coming from a place of "What about me!??". But I think all the victims of this vicious cycle deserve some type of relief. I would love to see all this debt transferred to the universities that gamed their tuition based upon anticipated financial assistance and maximum contributions from students and their families.

Any relief would need to be even handed. Many people made HUGE sacrifices to pay off their debt, and they should receive relief for what they had to go through. In GA, you get most of your tuition paid for by the lottery if you make decent grades in HS and attend a public college. If you attend a private, you get some assistance, but it is roughly equivalent to what you would have received going to a state school. So you could get $4000 towards a tuition of $50,000. So base the forgiveness based on the expense of a state school education. For students who have already paid their debt, do the same going back a set amount of years and offer it as a tax credit. So if the student decided to pursue a $200,000 degree, they would only be reimbursed for the cost of a state school.

Biden's number of 12,000 isn't quite there and doesn't address students who have already paid off their debt. That amount would have to be determined by the cost of a state school in which the student could have received the in-state rate.

by Anonymousreply 172Last Friday at 5:58 AM

They did enter into a contract and signed it. I feel this is a"catch 22 ".

by Anonymousreply 173Last Friday at 6:15 AM

R170, I am a professor and am teaching remote for the first time.

Students have always complained about online classes. If they were not required to take online credits none of them would do so. I always thought it was just bellyaching. But now that I have worked online I can see that students do not learn as much or as well. Plus the extra fees that students are expected to pay for the "privilege" of studying online are unconscionable.

Plus online classes are usually taught by adjuncts who are always underpaid and abused. And there are complicated intellectual property issue that colleges use bully tactics to get arround.

The system is broke and there is no easy solution. There are some things that just do not respond to the usual marketplace forces and cannot function effectively on the standard business model. We have tried to run education, healthcare, and the arts like ordinary businesses and it has never worked for any of them.

by Anonymousreply 174Last Friday at 6:18 AM

R174 The fact is none of those "businesses" can make a profit, yet they are necessary (yes, including the arts), which is why they need public funding.

Some countries (mostly in Europe) understand this and govern accordingly.

by Anonymousreply 175Last Friday at 6:22 AM

do it, the kids got a terrible education anyway, and it will help them get jobs

by Anonymousreply 176Last Friday at 6:23 AM

Until around 1970, it was illegal for health insurers to be for-profit.

They were all not-for-profit until then.

by Anonymousreply 177Last Friday at 6:24 AM

[quote]The Fed is part of the govt, so there's no borrowing, just creating more money. If you've saved anything, it becomes worth less every time the govt prints more.

I'd rather have the government create some money rather than see the economy collapse under the weight of student (and all) loan debt. Beyond that, we haven't cared about savings in this country for more than 20 years. You used to be able to open a savings account at your loca bank and get at least a 5% return; presently, that rate is less than a quarter percent, and that's for deposits over $100,000. It's another way that regular folks have been screwed by the ultrawealthy.

by Anonymousreply 178Last Friday at 6:26 AM

I support. We need more people who can participate in growing a viable economy in the future.

by Anonymousreply 179Last Friday at 6:39 AM

Perhaps systemic racism?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 180Last Friday at 6:48 AM

[quote]We need more people who can participate in growing a viable economy in the future.

The kids going to college ain't gonna do it. They can't multiply decimals, they can't tell you what 10% of 125 is.

by Anonymousreply 181Last Saturday at 4:31 AM

Just give every adult citizen $10,000 and call it a day.

by Anonymousreply 182Yesterday at 6:05 AM

OP writes,

[quote]I have such mixed feelings. It took me years to pay off my loan. It was a huge burden at the time...

This is why you should be supportive.

Your experience is what should not have happened.

The nation’s rulers are greedy. They allocate our money toward the wrong things, like endless wars, and don’t where we should—like on health insurance (we need Medicare for All) and education.

I don’t vote for either major political party in part because of this. It is also in part because they’re both scam operations.

by Anonymousreply 183Yesterday at 6:12 AM

Can't be done, because of the very many whose lives and careers were severely affected in paying off their loans. Do they get retroactive relief? I thought not.

To the "Gotta start somewhere" advocates: It can start with lending-law changes. "Forgive" only those loans designated for public colleges and universities. Then allow future student loans only for public institutions.

Nobody has a "right" to have a freely-entered-into loan contract for an exorbitantly-priced private institution of higher learning---the Ivy League; the small elite---"forgiven," aka "paid for by money from the public, including the parents of State School kids and the State School students themselves who might have gone to Harvard had they known their loans would be taken over by the government."

FTS.

by Anonymousreply 184Yesterday at 6:31 AM

We expect 18 year olds, who are told that they need to go to the best school they can, to make financial decisions that will affect them into middle age.

And unlike most bad financial decisions, there is no way to correct it later through legal action or bankruptcy.

by Anonymousreply 185Yesterday at 7:08 AM

That’s because if you go bankrupt they can’t take your education back.

If I spend $100,000 to go to law school and then default on those loans, or go bankrupt, I can still hang a shingle and get clients because I’m still a lawyer. They can’t take that back.

by Anonymousreply 186Yesterday at 7:21 AM

It's great if you were able to pay them off. That means you are doing well. Some of us haven't paid them off and it's hurting us. Please make this happen.

by Anonymousreply 187Yesterday at 7:34 AM

Does any other country outside of the US charge interest on educational loans? Some serious back door deals were made to make sure: 1. Student loans can’t be discharged in bankruptcy, only death, 2. Student loans have fairly high interest rates when you consider that they will compound regularly while a person is in school, 3. Wages can be garnished if you default and your credit ruined. Sweet deal for loan holders, amiright?

In all seriousness, I took out maybe $100-$120k in loans to get through grad school (state school, by the way, not a swanky private school), and I don’t have an issue paying much of that back in principle. What I do think is completely outrageous and unfair is the amount of interest that accrued while I was in school and then doing an underpaid postdoc and the briefly unemployed while finding a job: $80-$100k. That is f’ed up to have your loans double before you can start paying on your loans. This is why we have such massive student loan debt.

All educational loans should be interest free and/or some relief would be nice. Honestly, what would be even better is if all loans are forgiven in 10 years flat for all as long as you’re employed at all, not necessarily just a nonprofit full time. It’s disheartening that I work at a business but can’t get my loans forgiven because it isn’t a nonprofit or I’m not teaching 3 adjunct classes per semester, which I can never be guaranteed by a university. It’s BS.

by Anonymousreply 188Yesterday at 8:06 AM

[quote] (state school, by the way, not a swanky private school),

Yes, we know.

Collectively holding our noses.

by Anonymousreply 189Yesterday at 8:12 AM

[quote] All educational loans should be interest free

Then where is the lender’s incentive to loan you the money?

There has to be some interest. Maybe not a usurious figure, but something.

by Anonymousreply 190Yesterday at 8:13 AM

I don't see why not, R184.

Do something like remove the interest that's accrued on current loans and give those who paid their loans off the interest they paid back, then offer tuition grants to those who never had loans.

by Anonymousreply 191Yesterday at 8:14 AM

R190 I think the govmt should either pay a nominal interest rate for students or the govmt should hold the loans themselves. Why should students have to pay above and beyond the cost of their loans to get an education? This isn’t a car loan or a home loan.

by Anonymousreply 192Yesterday at 8:18 AM

But it’s a loan.

Regardless of what it’s for, I’m the lender giving you money that I won’t have the use of while you have it. Where’s my incentive?

And a car note can be satisfied with repossession of the car; a mortgage foreclosed. Education cannot.

by Anonymousreply 193Yesterday at 8:23 AM

By the way, all non-private educational loans are forgiven after 20 or 25 years of repayment, but you get hit with a huge tax bomb because the forgiven amount is considered income (PSLF is different and does not do this). So say you pay bare minimum on a $100k loan and it balloons over the years because you aren’t even covering interest under your income driven plan. Let’s say the year it’s forgiven your loan is now $200k. Now the govmt considers that as additional income for that year, and it bumps you up to a much higher tax bracket and you may owe something in the realm of $50k-$75k in back taxes.

Why is this even a thing? So going into debt all over again after paying on your loans for 20-25 years? It’s ludicrous.

by Anonymousreply 194Yesterday at 8:25 AM

R186, you do not understand how bankruptcy works. Assets might be liquidated but nothing is "taken back." In fact, if you are filing for bankruptcy, "giving the item back" could be seen as fraud.

When someone goes bankrupt owing for health related debts, funeral related debts, home related debts, among others, they do not even liquidate the assets. (Imagine them digging up grandma's coffin or removing a transplanted lung to "take them back")

by Anonymousreply 195Yesterday at 1:16 PM

Just cap the interest rate at something nominal.

by Anonymousreply 196Yesterday at 1:19 PM

they need to cancel student loan debt. This would help the economy. USA needs to move to a savings, not a debt based economy. It is a positive effect on the economy.

Tuition and fees are too high anyways. People are paying back money that goes to banks, not to academics (science and humanities) anyways. Don't get me start on interest.

Cancel Student Loan Debt.

by Anonymousreply 197Yesterday at 1:26 PM

"Why is this even a thing? So going into debt all over again after paying on your loans for 20-25 years? It’s ludicrous. "

you weren't really "paying" if not covering interest.

by Anonymousreply 198Yesterday at 1:27 PM

For profit schools are the problem. Tuition should be capped.

by Anonymousreply 199Yesterday at 1:40 PM

There are so few for-profit schools. Students are taking out loans at ALL schools.

When I was an undergraduate, loans were not considered financial aid.

Going to grad school many years later, they were considered part of the financial aid package.

by Anonymousreply 200Yesterday at 1:51 PM
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