COVID vaccine

I am willing to risk it and get the damn vaccine. I wanna not wear the mask and feel normal and safe again.

You will still be mandated to wear a mask long after you get the vaccine.

Which one lets Hillary microchip me? That’s the one I want!

The recent hype around the COVID vaccines is ridiculous. They pull 90% or 95% effective out of preliminary data to jack up stock prices. It's all meaningless until they have concluded their trials and have a scientific paper published.

R4 Exactly. But these queens on DL keep believing everything without questioning anything at all.

I’ll wait. I want to know the long term side effects and the genuine effectiveness first. The current measures aren’t going anywhere anytime soon anyway.

I'm with R2 R4 R6. Wait until the vaccine is tested and perfected, and all the human guinea pigs cease reacting adversely to/dying from the "cure". Masks will be mandatory until there is something that passes for accurate data that a sizeable proportion of the population has been vaccinated.

Then we wait for possible Fresh Hell: Covid Redux, the virus mutates, and the current vaccine is useless.

Precious paranoid snowflakes all around.

Vaccines are socialist.

I wish I could design a vaccine for Repuglies. 2, mushroom -penis -shaped doses one oral, one anal, administered at the at the same time.

I want the Dolly Parton vaccine. Pfizer said theirs was 90 percent effective, then Dolly's people said theirs was 94.5 percent effective, then Pfizer came back and said theirs is 95 percent effective.

Pfizer may be telling the truth, but there's something very Donald Trumpish about announcing one number and then changing it when the competitor's number is better.

Or whatever one Dr. Fauci says is the best one.

[quote]and all the human guinea pigs cease reacting adversely to/dying from the "cure".

Second time you’ve posted this bullshit.

I signed up for a vaccine trial. I'm going for a screening in early December to see if I qualify. I believe it's the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

Anybody else in a trial?

By the time regular Americans get the opportunity to get the vaccine, 2Q 2021, it will have been taken by millions of Americans EARLY. The early recipients will be doing the Beta Testing for the rest of us. By June of next year, we will know if it is safe and effective.

While I trust the Biden administration to roll out a vaccine that is both safe AND effective, I do hope to make it to 2022 before getting one. I feel like being part of the later grouping of people getting vaccinated would give me a better idea of risks.

When the time comes I will consult my doctor for an opinion.

To R3 point. Nope. It’s going to be used as a control device.

I'm taking the one that is a plot by the homosexual Jewish Marxist Satan worshippers!

I'll be taking the first vaccine approved and offered to me.

If I were running the CIA, I would have invented some kind of “chip” for those detained at Guantanamo. Maybe something tiny that they ingest, and then gets attached to the stomach wall, so the prisoners don’t even know it’s happened. Then I’d track them and rain down fire and brimstone on those who get released and start or go back to terrorist activities.

Not that it’s relevant here, but R3 reminded me.

Will this be the Swine Flu fiasco redux?

Anything developed this quickly it’s going to be coming out as a first draft. Especially since this is a new technology that is being used.

I am planning to wait until the second or maybe third draft is out before I get the shot, but that is only because I’m not in any high-risk groups. If I were eighty or older or in another high-risk group I’d get the vaccine right away

I just want my 76 year old mother to be protected. I don’t care about me as far as getting it, but she’s been isolating at home since April. Can’t give her a hug and have to stay outside when I visit.

If I knew she was safe it wouldn’t matter when I get the vaccine.

The virus has killed more than 250,000 people IN THE UNITED STATES ALONE, well over a million worldwide, and has reportedly had ongoing, residual effects after the acute phase for tens of thousands more.

How many people have the vaccines killed?

I'll take it when my doc says it's safe and effective. He knows more about things like this than, say, Jenny McCarthy.

It will take at least two years to learn what, if any, serious side effects these drugs cause. Permanently disabling adverse events from fluoroquinolone antibiotics can present up to 18 months after a dosage. This happens with a variety of supposedly "safe" drugs owned by companies that the FDA board members happen to own millions of dollars of stock in, companies which they knowingly allow to bury unwanted findings from their safety trials. Further, we've already been told that version the Pfizer drug that the US gets will be different than the one the rest of the world gets. Our safety standards and the ingredients we allow into people's bodies are forbidden in much of the rest of the Western world. In 18 months to 2.5 years, if the version approved for use in the EU has not proven to have potentially disastrous side effects, I would be fine with importing that specific concoction and taking it.

FYI Kessel and his wife have destroyed millions of lives with their corruption. He is the last fucking person who should be on any health advisory panel ever.

I have a friend who has designed two of the trials for the various vaccines and they are being tested just as rigorously as any other.

I just hope all the idiots that are skeptical stand by their statements and don’t take the vaccine, which means more for the rest of the world, and then get COVID and die from it, which means less dumb in the world.

Win-win!

r25, your callousness towards people who have been disabled by unsafe drugs is appalling.

Your failure to mention that thousands of other drugs have helped them, R26 is, to say the least, puzzling.

R26, I hope you die first

R25 and R23, in general you are entirely correct, but have a little compassion for people who are not brainwashed and not listening to Jenny McCarthy, but who don't trust anything Trump says is good, and who don't trust the FDA or the CDC, because we've all seen how Trump has sidelined scientists in favor of his political appointees and promoted "cures" like hydrochloroquine. It's not entirely unreasonable to believe that the apparently effective treatments given to Trump were a lie and he didn't have Covid at all.

You don't have to be an anti-vaxxer to be skeptical of a vaccine the current White House is promoting. I'll get it when my doctor says to get it, but I understand why some people want to see how it plays out for a bit.

R25 and R23, in general you are entirely correct, but have a little compassion for people who are not brainwashed and not listening to Jenny McCarthy, but who don't trust anything Trump says is good, and who don't trust the FDA or the CDC, because we've all seen how Trump has sidelined scientists in favor of his political appointees and promoted "cures" like hydrochloroquine. It's not entirely unreasonable to believe that the apparently effective treatments given to Trump were a lie and he didn't have Covid at all.

You don't have to be an anti-vaxxer to be skeptical of a vaccine the current White House is promoting. I'll get it when my doctor says to get it, but I understand why some people want to see how it plays out for a bit.

It’s kind of alarming to me that many medical staff don’t want to take the first vaccine. I’m not an expert at all but it leaves me torn. I feel we need to take responsibility if we know it works and if the cure isn’t worse than the disease. Another if for me is, it’s already been said we might need yearly vaccinations because there will be new strains. I’m not in a high risk group so by the time I might get the first vaccine the second might be nearly finished. The new vaccine is mRNA-based. previously only used on livestock. Anyone on here that knows a bit more about mRNA vaccines?

I knew a girl who got a vaccine once.

Then she died.

Hah, I kid, she's fine.

R11 AND the second time you've misunderstood the post.

Remember Thalidomide!!

Oops, try again

One word: Thalidomide

When Fauci takes it I'll take it.

[quote] Will this be the Swine Flu fiasco redux?

Right. Because we're learned absolutely nothing in the past 44 years

[quote]Because we're learned absolutely nothing in the past 44 years

Governments using their citizens as guinea pigs, especially when there's a pandemic causing panic and hysteria? No, "we've" learned absolutely nothing.

I'm interested to know more about the efficacy of the vaccine itself - it seems like the test subjects were innoculated and then left to live their lives and see if they got sick, but were not deliberately exposed or infected. I spend a lot of time in nursing homes, hospitals, around ill people in general and luckily haven't gotten COVID yet, nor have any of my co-workers. Is that an accurate way to test a vaccine like this? Does anyone know more about the testing process re: the vaccine?

Will take it asap

I’ve had three bouts of pneumonia since March, so I think I’d be willing to take the vaccine early, since the alternative does not look so good, for me.

I'll be take one as soon as I can once one is approved.

Some MARYS here terrified of vaccines.

[quote]It’s kind of alarming to me that many medical staff don’t want to take the first vaccine.

First I've heard of this. Do you have a link?

I’ve found that the medical facilities have the strongest safeguards.

Who needs a vaccine? Ben Carson says he took the MyPillow Guy's COVID cure and his symptoms disappeared in hours!

Prepare to star in the prequel to “The Walking Dead”.

Which one is the Dolly Parton vaccine?

R44 sorry it’s over here in the EU so this article is in Dutch. It’s Amsterdam’s main daily newspaper called Parool and it says that only 1 out of 3 of the medical staff seems to be willing to take the new vaccine regardless. Lately on the news it has been said that still 30% of staff will not take it.

It just makes me wonder why they are so reluctant. General opinion seems to be that they first want see if it really works. A few months of testing doesn’t seem sufficient.

The CDC today recommended that Americans not travel for Thanksgiving to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

Which is good advice but should have been offered 2-3 weeks ago.

I don't know why the Dutch medicos may be reluctant, R49, but I haven't seen anything about similar trepidation in America. In the general public, yes, but not amongst medical staff -- though there are sure to be some outliers. I know some nurses that bitch up and down every year that they have to get a flu shot for work. They wouldn't get them otherwise, they say.

R48, the one by Moderna Therapeutics. Dolly donated $1 million to Vanderbilt University Medical School (that may not be the exact name), which is collaborating with Moderna and Emory University and the National Institutes of Health, and maybe other institutions.

What’s good enough for Dolly Parton is good enough for me!

R51 thanks. Somehow I can’t attach the linkt. I tried so many times now. Captcha error or something weird. Well maybe the medics are simply stubborn....

I'm taking the Soros one. Gates already knows too much about us. He'd need version 2.0 to get it right.

No, I like my medical advice from a Jew. They're usually pretty good about this kind of stuff. Funny how Soros controls half the world but you hardly ever see him anywhere. It must be an exhausting job. How does one become a puppet master?

[quote] The new vaccine is mRNA-based. previously only used on livestock. Anyone on here that knows a bit more about mRNA vaccines?

I used to know. But I forgot. Eet chiken.

[quote] it seems like the test subjects were innoculated and then left to live their lives and see if they got sick, but were not deliberately exposed or infected.

Doctors have said repeatedly it would be unethical to intentionally expose people to something that could do them harm.

R49, did you misspeak?

[quote] Lately on the news it has been said that still 30% of staff will not take it.

That means 70% of the staff [bold]would[/bold] take it.

R55, I'd never heard of George Soros until my brother told me a few years ago he's a master manipulator who controls not only the Democratic Party and all liberals, but he also controls me and everything I think, because I would know everything I think is Socialism if I hadn't been brainwashed by Soros and the people he has running the Democratic Party. I'm glad to have been enlightened, but I must have been really well brainwashed, because I still think all the same things I thought then, only perhaps more so.

[quote]I'm glad to have been enlightened, but I must have been really well brainwashed, because I still think all the same things I thought then, only perhaps more so.

That's Soros' evil genius at work!

R58 no I didn’t I feel that almost a third of the medics not wanting the first vaccine is quite a staggering amount. After all our educational level is high, especially for healthcare workers and medics. I’m not medically educated so I wonder why so many with knowledge and experience have serious doubts is all.

R40 It’s the standard way of testing vaccines. The first reason is ethics - it’s generally considered unethical to knowingly expose test subjects to known, potentially dangerous pathogens. That kind of trial does happen (it’s called a “Challenge trial”) but they’re controversial. The second reason is organizational. Challenge trials are complicated and time consuming to set up safely. It’s easier to do a traditional double blind trial where you give the vaccine to one group of people and a placebo to another (with neither group knowing which they got) and then compare how many in each group got infected over time. Those sort of trials can be set up relatively easily and you can get very large sample sizes (the ones for the different COVID-19 vaccines have included 20,000-30,000 participants).

There are pros and cons with both methods, but both are legit ways of testing efficiency of vaccines.

[quote] I'll take the vaccine right after r38

R38 here. I'm enrolled in the J&J study. I go for my first screening on 12/7. If they decide to use me, I presume I'll get a shot that day. I won't know if I got the placebo or the real vaccine, however.

R29, I don’t agree with your opinion that a Trump-influenced-FDA is an issue. While the current administration might well be willing to green light anything that comes along, these huge corporations have shareholders to which they are legally obliged to make sound business decisions. They would not put out a vaccine that was not rigorously vetted, particularly because so many people will be taking it and any negative side effects amplified by scale. Even if there was a blanket immunity to civil suits for vaccines enacted by Congress, which I don’t believe there has been, it would be a terrible blow to the reputation of the company and its share price.

I won't be surprised if some here die next year due to being so adamant in taking the vaccine. I will remain cautious.

Soros or Gates? Is that how the alt-right is framing it? We should be able to take whatever vaccine is rated safe and effective by a non-politicized FDA.

R64, I don't necessarily disagree with you. As I said, I'll get it when my doctor says to get it. But I understand why some people are reluctant to go to the head of the line, even if they are not anti-vaxxers in general.

R64, I don't necessarily disagree with you. As I said, I'll get it when my doctor says to get it. But I understand why some people are reluctant to go to the head of the line, even if they are not anti-vaxxers in general.

Boston, Massachusetts is home to the Mother Church of Christian Scientists, (different from Scientologists), who usually refuse medication and pray and read for good health. So, the rest of us have to give them herd immunity.

Occasionally, but not rarely, a Christian Scientist’s child will die for lack of a readily available medication. In one case, a father who lost a child in this way was found to have taken pain meds when he has dental surgery. So, he was fucked. Massachusetts law is written to exempt them from some health measures.

I went to grad school in Boston, and had to get a slew of vaccines ecause I had no record of having had those various childhood inoculations.

R63, I'm in the Pfizer/BioNTech trial -- in mine I did get a shot right away after getting screened, COVID-tested, and blood drawn (they didn't wait for any test results).

What is to stop a person from getting multiple vaccinations with vaccines from different manufacturers?

R69, I had a relative who was a member of one of the fundie churches that believes their god will heal anyone who prays hard enough, and her husband, a preacher, wouldn't let her go to the ER and instead prayed over until she died of appendicitis.

The DA didn't bother charging him with anything, because no jury in that area bordering the South would convict a preacher for trusting the Lord to heal his wife.

R72, oh I just hate that. Everybody dies. If God didn’t even save his own Son, he’s not going to heal some fundie.

R2 - why would they mandate a mask once there is a vaccine? I know some won't take the damn thing but let's be serious, most of us will. Imagine if they had a HIV vaccine...most of the eldergays would have jumped at the chance to protect themselves against the horror of AIDS. As for those that don't want to take it, well, they will be the ones who are at risk now. The only possible reason for a mandate would be to not overburden the healthcare system. There is also talk of making the vaccine mandatory if you want insurance.

I don’t get it either, r74.

If I have taken a vaccine and you haven’t, it seems to me you’re at risk, not me. Why would either party need to mask up in that situation?

R75 - other than to contain further spread or the burden on the healthcare system that the unvaccinated would cause, I also can't figure it out.

[quote] It’s kind of alarming to me that many medical staff don’t want to take the first vaccine

1. we're not stupid. We don't believe everything we hear

2. We don't trust the FDA

3. The vaccine trials were on healthy people. We want to see how it works on people with pre-existing conditions

4. Tens of thousands of lawyers do nothing but sue drug manufacturers and other health care product manufacturers for faulty products. They exist for a reason. These companies sell dangerous products

Bill Gates: By next summer, it’s very likely a lot of things will be back to normal.

I am pro-vaccine, but this one I will see what happens to the people that are in line to get it first. Since I am not a first responder or in the medical field, the issues if any should start showing up in about a couple of months. I did the Swine Flu fiasco shot and had a lump the size of an egg on my arm for weeks.

What bothers me is this is a new type of vaccine. If you read the NYT vaccine tracker, they give a great rundown on the types. I am hoping that the J&J non-messenger RNA vaccine will be ready quickly, as the Moderna and Pfizer one creep me out. I don't have any faith in the system of getting it. especially since it needs to be kept so cold. My doctor's HS dropout staff can't even take blood pressure correctly let alone make sure a vaccine is kept at the required temperature. If they do drive up in Palm Springs that would also be a hard pass.

R77, you don’t know half of why you think you know. As a matter of fact, you sound dumb as a box of rocks.

Forty-five percent of the participants in the Pfizer trial were ages 56-85. While they might not have been one foot in the grave, it’s hard to find people in that set without preexisting conditions or co-morbidities.

"The CDC today recommended that Americans not travel for Thanksgiving to prevent the spread of the coronavirus.

Which is good advice but should have been offered 2-3 weeks ago."

It's unfortunate Americans need a heads up (after9 months) that it might be a bad idea to travel around the country during a deadly pandemic.

R74 et al, the successful trials have shown that vaccination can reduce the risk of symptomatic infection, but it's unknown yet whether it can make a difference when it comes to asymptomatic infection. So while a vaccinated person might feel fine, he or she possibly could spread the disease to someone vulnerable. We won't be masked forever, but it won't be until COVID is on its way to being shown the door.

There are 3 vaccines now. Pfizer, Oxford and China. Can one take all three?

If people are stupid enough to not take the vaccine or decide to wait for 5 years, don't blame the rest of the us for wanting to continue to live our lives.

If it's safe yes.

I’m waiting for the 5G version.

My current concern is the fact that a sum total of EIGHT(8) persons in the Covid trial were given the actual vaccine. The rest of them on the trial were given placebos (approx. 150 people). Of the 8 that were vaccinated, 1 person had a serious reaction (we don't know what the actual reactions were). Then Pfizer reported a 90% effectivity rate. That sample given the vaccine is way to small to make any extrapolation as to who would(n't) have a bad reaction. That alone gives me pause.

The Moderna vaccine claims a 94% effective rate. However, this is the company that Dumpster funded and god only knows exactly who these medical experts were. (I suspect FatOrangeA$$ has shares in Moderna to make a profit.

So, I guess I'll wait.

I agree with r24. Remember when Cipro was given out to anyone with any type of infection? Yes, we were told there's no bad side effects. Turns out there were a lot of bad side effects. Anyone notice that neuropathy is now rampant? Makes one wonder. How about that early H1N1 vaccine? Similar side effects are still occurring today. One can suspect that the live virus in the vaccine was not entirely deactivated. Remember when benzodiazepines were the go to med for anxiety disorders? Well, these meds were touted at the time to be non-addictive. It turns out benzos were, in fact, addictive and the entire class of benzos are now a strictly regulated controlled substance.

Exactly correct, R88. Listen to any ad for a drug. It's an old joke that at the end, they all list a dozen or more horrible potential side-effects. They don't discover all those *rare* side effects without putting thousands of people through their protocols.

That said, I'll still get the vaccine as soon as my doctor recommends it, because for me, the risk of Covid is probably more dangerous than the risk of a vaccine side effect

Exactly correct, R88. Listen to any ad for a drug. It's an old joke that at the end, they all list a dozen or more horrible potential side-effects. They don't discover all those *rare* side effects without putting thousands of people through their protocols.

That said, I'll still get the vaccine as soon as my doctor recommends it, because for me, the risk of Covid is probably more dangerous than the risk of a vaccine side effect

[quote] That sample given the vaccine is way to small

Oh, dear!

[quote] My current concern is the fact that a sum total of EIGHT(8) persons in the Covid trial were given the actual vaccine. The rest of them on the trial were given placebos (approx. 150 people).

Link, please.

Thank you for the explanation, r82.

The Astrozenica and Moderna vaccines look better that the Mr. Freeze Pfizer vac.

[quote]If they decide to use me, I presume I'll get a shot that day. I won't know if I got the placebo or the real vaccine, however. I'd say the ball is in your court, R39

R63 The "ball" is most certainly NOT in my court, since you haven't "taken the vaccine". And if/when you do, it ceases to be a ball, and becomes a time bomb.

IF you are chosen and survive, come back to continue the discussion about balls and courts.

WTF... vaccine for 20 million by December?! What are they smoking?

I WILL TAKE THEM ALL!

The Senate should all take it first. They are old.

[quote] My current concern is the fact that a sum total of EIGHT(8) persons in the Covid trial were given the actual vaccine. The rest of them on the trial were given placebos (approx. 150 people). Of the 8 that were vaccinated, 1 person had a serious reaction (we don't know what the actual reactions were). Then Pfizer reported a 90% effectivity rate. That sample given the vaccine is way to small to make any extrapolation as to who would(n't) have a bad reaction. That alone gives me pause.

R87, I don’t know if you’re simply stupid or purposefully trying to spread disinformation but nothing about this is true.

The Pfizer phase III trials have been completed on over 41,000 people. You either are stupid or a troll. Probably both:

My big fear is after we get the vaccine and life goes back to normal, for the most part, we realize what we were missing is actually kinda lame and life has zero meaning.

R87 I’m also going to need links to all the claims you made at R88 because the “makes you go hmmm...” bullshit doesn’t cut it. From looking at your posts it seems you went to college for film studies so pardon me for not taking the word of someone with a liberal arts degree as scientific truth.

And please no random Youtubers because that’s probably where you get your info.

r100, life truly has no meaning except for us to make it to tomorrow.

I LOVE lockdown. I cannot believe that it took me so long to realize how much I do not like other people.

During the age of Rona, other people are simply filth and inconvenience.

People are the worst.

So it's gonna be a big rush into an emergency authorization to get the vaccine out. It's like one trainwreck on top of another trainwreck.

The data came from a CNN news report. I'll try to find a link..

[quote]The data came from a CNN news report. I'll try to find a link..

Good luck with that.

R106, exactly.

A vaccine so soon surprises the hell out of me.

Tumps reputation as a chronic liar worked against him here. He might have known the vaccines were coming soon, but I certainly didn’t believe him when he said “we're rounding the curve”, and so forth.

[quote]So it's gonna be a big rush into an emergency authorization to get the vaccine out. It's like one trainwreck on top of another trainwreck.

Exactly. This is not going to do anything to convince the people who are already concerned that this is being rushed too quickly and are hesitant to take it.

This is not safe.

Isn't it the frontliners are among the priority? It would be tragic if there is a serious side effect and we end-up losing most of them.

R110 OMG that’s a scary thought!

It’ll be interesting to see what the Covid deniers do.

They deny it because Trump told them to. Will they take the vaccine because it was developed under Trump’s watch?

A vaccine for a hoax?! A plandemic just to git rid of Trump?

Looks like they slaughtered the pig but no one wanted bacon.

This was on Reddit today. It’s a conspiracy theory accusation that the vaccine turns white people black. And 5G and Bill Gates are also involved somehow.

It’s kind of hilarious.

I guess the MyPillow guy’s magical cure wasn’t all that magical for Ben Carson after all. From Dr. Ben’s Facebook page:

“Thank you everyone for your support and prayers as Candy and I battled COVID-19. I was extremely sick and initially took Oleander 4X with dramatic improvement.

However, I have several co-morbidities and after a brief period when I only experienced minor discomfort, the symptoms accelerated and I became desperately ill.

President Trump was following my condition and cleared me for the monoclonal antibody therapy that he had previously received, which I am convinced saved my life.”

So Trump gets to decide who does and doesn’t get the antibody treatment?

R115, likely he was pumped with lots of steroids

It’s going to be distributed in waves, e.g., first responders first. It will take months to trickle down to the hoi polloi.

Even separately from Trump's push to get the vaccine out while he's in office, Pfizer seems like they are rushing things, too, because they want to be first and Moderna is close on their heels.

That's not going to make people feel safe about taking it. They are such fuck-ups.

It’s going to be given to providers and people who live in homes for the aging first—so we can see what side effects occur

To those of you nay-sayers, what amount of additional time before coming to market would make you feel comfortable? Another three months? Six months? A year?

If the timeline was entirely within my control, I wouldn't sign up for it in December. I would get it sometime in the 1st half of 2021. I figure 4-6 months into it, they likely wouldn't distribute hundreds of millions of bad vaccines on us, right...

But as long bad side effects do not pop up, I'll definitely get it. I live a very long way from my family and I want to visit them soon. I get the flu shot every year so no anti-vaxxer sentiments here.

R120, it's not about how much time it takes, it's about whether it seems like they are working fast to get it out or rushing the process to satisfy either Trump's desire to have it out before he leaves office or Pfizer's corporate overlords demanding to be first.

I'll get it, as I've said in other posts above, but I believe a lot of people will not or will do it reluctantly, and not when it's first available to them.

[quote] President Trump was following my condition and cleared me for the monoclonal antibody therapy that he had previously received, which I am convinced saved my life.”

JFC, what a slap in the face to your average American who is dying from this fucking thing.

We need to trust in scientific evidence. Too many people don’t believe in vaccine science and this is unfortunately amplified by people buying into COViD-19 conspiracy theories. We’ve been updated via grand rounds and this article summarizes some pertinent information.

[quote] it's not about how much time it takes, it's about whether it seems like they are working fast to get it out or rushing the process to satisfy either Trump's desire to have it out before he leaves office or Pfizer's corporate overlords demanding to be first.

Trump has turned the left into anti vaxxers.

[quote] To those of you nay-sayers, what amount of additional time before coming to market would make you feel comfortable? Another three months? Six months? A year?

Why let a good crisis go to waste?

Keep in mind that these vaccines have been given (in trials) since March. No one has keeled over, or even gotten seriously ill. Could there be risks? Sure. But you know what else is risky? Getting COVID.

R117 Yup, phased roll out... but I would be surprised it would happen as neatly as in this diagram. Of course, even people in the high priority group might not want it.

Why are young adults given priority over older adults (not seniors) in r127 chart? I didn't know they're the most dispensable among all groups.

Food processing workers should be in fairly high up in the food chain. Probably truck drivers too, because they’re always traveling and eating out. They get a lot of exposure. People don’t realize how important they are to the food chain.

I’m Phase IV. *buys more masks*

I'm not taking it if makes me sterile!

[quote] President Trump was following my condition and cleared me for the monoclonal antibody therapy that he had previously received, which I am convinced saved my life.” So Trump gets to decide who does and doesn’t get the antibody treatment?

That treatment was created using the contents of an ABORTION

And you don't hear a peep about it from the dems. If Obama took that treatment when he was in office, the repugs would be standing in the streets and rooftops with pictures of dead babies while screaming out Obama's a baby killer

Meanwhile at Pfizer...

It's sad that whenever money is at stake, the US taxpayers are going to bigly reward whichever big Pharma company that manages to bring their product to market first. All subsequent ramifications is immaterial because any adverse side effects may not become known for months or even years. By then, it will be too late to go back and get refunds. There's simply too much at stake since people need this "vaccine" in order to go back to work and in order for children to attend school.

[quote]No one has keeled over, or even gotten seriously ill. Could there be risks? Sure. But you know what else is risky? Getting COVID.

R126 places far too much trust in government and pharma transparency and good will. No one has any idea if the human guinea pigs have "keeled over". Between public and financial pressure, governments and pharm companies are going to place as positive a spin on any vaccine (there are currently 64 diff vaccines under trials around the world) as they can. Reality may very well be another matter.

I’m guessing the general public will have access to the vaccine by the spring

[quote]it's not about how much time it takes, it's about whether it seems like they are working fast to get it out

The average time to develop and bring a vaccine to market is 5-10 years. Are you willing to wait that long? What period of time would you consider "not too fast"?

[quote] Why are young adults given priority over older adults (not seniors) in [R127] chart?

Because young adults and children are less likely to be adversely affected by COVID, yet have many more opportunities to spread it.

I wanna be first in the queue.

The medicine regulators know their shit.

To those asking why you will still have to wear a mask even after you are vaccinated. Has it not occurred to you that there will be no way of knowing (short of putting a tattoo on everyone's forehead) which people have been vaccinated and which have not? Many anti-maskers will stop wearing masks even though they have NOT been vaccinated. Are you expecting everyone to act in good faith? They won't. And these folks could be super spreaders. Lots of posters on this very thread say they don't plan to get vaccinated for years.

The only way to safely lift the mandate for masks is when community spread and subsequent deaths drops to a low enough level that the disease is close to being eradicated. That will take a while- especially when so many people are afraid to get the vaccine.

True R140

R140, a mark on the right hand or forehead wil suffice, R140.

[quote] That will take a while- especially when so many people are afraid to get the vaccine.

If you think we'll remain locked up for years because a minority of people with no valid medical concerns refuse to take the vaccine, then you're insane.

^No one said locked up, Rose. The discussion was about masks. How will you know who has/has not had the vaccine and that it will only be a few outliers?

R144 If a vaccine becomes widely available and you choose not to take it, then you become responsible for your own health.

[quote] The discussion was about masks.

Now you're being dim. It's about barring any activity where people can't properly socially distance.

[quote] How will you know who has/has not had the vaccine and that it will only be a few outliers?

We shouldn't impose sweeping restrictions based on a few outliers. If we did, we would shut down over fears of the common flu.

Still not getting it, Rose. It won't be only a few outliers (duh), it will be millions of people who will not get the vaccine even though it is readily available. FFS, a third of all medical professionals surveyed have said "no thanks" they will not get it until there is more evidence it is safe.

What rock are you living under that you think mask wearing is only about protecting yourself. Unvaccinated people who don't wear a mask are putting the health OF OTHERS at risk, not just themselves.

[quote]Now you're being dim. It's about barring any activity where people can't properly socially distance.

Again, Rose....NO. Upthread someone asked why you will have to continue wearing a mask even if you got the vaccine. And I answered that (and only that) question at R140.

Read the article I posted @ R140. Maybe that will help you understand.

We're all going to have to wait anyway because it won't be possible to manufacture enough for everyone for 2-3 years. But, I'd be happy to be vaccinated asap. The more I read about mRNA, the better it sounds to me.

"even though it is readily available" - it's not readily available, r146. In fact, no vaccine is currently available, unless you consider the Chinese one, for which trials haven't even finished yet.

The vaccines won't be readily available until well into the second half of 2021. Some lucky people will get them earlier, priority groups such as health workers, the elderly and the vulnerable. But the rest of us will have to suffer for longer.

[quote] Some lucky people will get them earlier, priority groups such as health workers, the elderly and the vulnerable. But the rest of us will have to suffer for longer.

Exactly, and those few will not be able to go about life as though there is no Covid. They will still have to mask and social distance until there is a drastic drop in Covid infections in the wider community. Because no one will be able to tell if a maskless person has been vaccinated, or if they are just being a selfish idiot "anti masker".

[quote] The vaccines won't be readily available until well into the second half of 2021.

Everyone, from the drug companies to Dr. Fauci is saying it will be widely available by spring. And the essential workers, compromised people, etc. could be vaccinated as soon as next month.

Pfizer has stated they have millions of doses readily available awaiting the approval.

Explain this mask thing to me like I’m five years old:

I’m Good Citizen. I get vaccinated and therefore don’t wear a mask. I see Deplorable Dude walking down the street without a mask (he has not been vaccinated).

Why should I care he’s not masked? Isn’t he the only one at risk? If I can’t get it due to being vaccinated he, in theory, can’t give it to me. If he hasn’t been vaccinated he can still get it, but that wouldn’t affect me.

What am I missing?

R151, Pfizer and Moderna are saying that they'll be able to start shipping out a few tens of millions of doses by spring but, especially given that two doses are required, that won't cover much of the US or Europe, let alone the rest of the world. Spring/summer 2021 onwards is when serious mass vaccine programmes may be able to start. Let's see what happens also with the other vaccine candidates, but they will not be making 100s of millions of doses within days of approval.

In December 2020, a few million doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine may ship, to the US and EU.

Thanks, r153.

This is what Fauci is saying, r151:

Fauci said that hopefully by the end of the year, two companies' vaccines will have enough doses available for 20 million people.

"At best, what we will see, will that be some people — generally the highest priority, that's determined by an advisory committee and ultimately the CDC — there will likely be some getting vaccinated towards the end of December," he said.

The consensus is that health care workers will be the first ones to get vaccinated.

"As we get into January, February, those doses will increase," Fauci said. At that point, doses will still be limited to certain prioritized groups.

"By the time you get to, let's say, the end of April, the beginning of May, June, July, as we get into the second quarter, it'll be much more likely that you'll have, quote, 'the general population' that's not on the priority list will be able to get vaccinated," he said.

R152, Pfizer and Moderna are saying their vaccines are 95 and 94.5 percent effective. That means there's a 5 percent chance vaccinated people can get it anyway.

Five percent of 100 million people is 5 million people, so even with a vaccine, Trump followers and anti-vaxxers will make it necessary for the rest of us to wear a mask, especially if we have known risk factors.

R152, Pfizer and Moderna are saying their vaccines are 95 and 94.5 percent effective. That means there's a 5 percent chance vaccinated people can get it anyway.

Five percent of 100 million people is 5 million people, so even with a vaccine, Trump followers and anti-vaxxers will make it necessary for the rest of us to wear a mask, especially if we have known risk factors.

Being totally ignorant about viruses, can you be vaccinated, and still be a carrier? This particular virus seems to be very insidious.

[quote]I’m Good Citizen. I get vaccinated and therefore don’t wear a mask. I see Deplorable Dude walking down the street without a mask (he has not been vaccinated). Why should I care he’s not masked? Isn’t he the only one at risk?

Good citizens tend to have some regard for their fellow citizens' health, no matter how stupid their fellow citizens may be.

Sanjay Gupta said it's not clear yet whether the vaccinated can still get asymptomatic cases that can be transmitted to others, so mask-wearing will remain a priority.

Then everyone who is a good citizen should get vaccinated r159, so no one catches it and we can get back to normal.

Vaccination will happen in waves, so many "good citizens" will have to wait a long time before they can fulfill their civic duty, R160. Are you going to be careless with their health because they are at the end of the line for vaccination?

[quote]Being totally ignorant about viruses, can you be vaccinated, and still be a carrier?

Yep. theoretically, you can be vaccinated, still be a carrier. You can be vaccinated and still get the virus. Since this is a novel virus, its behavior is still mostly unknown. How long the vaccine will last, how effective it will be (clinical trials versus real life), how many vaccinated will still get the virus, how contageous the virus will be in a post-vaccine world, how many top-ups, subsequent vaccinations, will be required to maintain immunity is all stuff we're all gonna find out about in the coming years.

Exactly, R162. I was offered a job in November 2021 from people who assume Covid will be a thing of the past by then. I accepted with the caveat that I can opt out if Covid is not at a level in which I feel I can safely work.

I've already started preparing for the job and I intend to fulfil my agreement, but I'm not assuming this will be over in a year. I'm guessing maybe August/September we will start to have an idea how rapidly the trajectory is changing. And of course, some questions won't be answered for years, perhaps many years.

Of course r161, we should all be on alert careful until all those who are willing to be vaccinated have been. After that, I don't give a shit about what happens to the selfish anti-vaxxers.

I'd like to hire a house cleaning crew but have not because of the virus. I'd like to do so in the spring, but it would depend on them being vaccinated.

While a lot of us do not want to take the initial vaccine, that might change is there is some sort of vaccine passport needed to do anything. If you need a vaccine to travel, board a plane, go to events, eat out, go to work, this might encourage people to do it sooner than later. I don't know if this is conspiracy theory stuff, but I know some of the Asian countries have a app on your phone which gives you a green, yellow, or red check mark depending on if you have had the virus, etc.

R165, I’d like to hire a plumber and somebody to do tile work, but at this point, I’d rather make do than risk it.

I made an appointment to have a plumber come out, then called the day before to reschedule it. His wife answered the phone coughing and said they were in quarantine while she waited for test results to come back.

Were they ever going to tell me? Were they going to quarantine? If she got the test, she must have known she was exposed, and probably had symptoms. She was audibly coughing one day after the test. Did she have symptoms when she took my original call?

This is why I hesitate to have any workman in the house. These people’s business profits are way down. Would they deliberately expose me to make some money? At least that couple would have. They never called to reschedule. I called them. They shouldn’t have made the appointment in the first place. If you’re getting a test because you had Covid exposure, you should be quarantining, not making appointments to go into people’s homes.

By the time the vaccines reach us little people, they will have been Beta Tested in real life for six months.

If people aren't dropping dead from them by then, I'm good to go.

Pierre @ R165. Just hire the cleaning crew already. You've been going on about this through multiple COVID threads under your signature. Or just clean your own place. It's not like you don't have plenty of time on your hands.

[quote] By the time the vaccines reach us little people,

Aww, ain’t you sweet. Thank you, honey.

Even my ultra-paranoid, elderly father has had workers come out to the house over the past several months. All you have to do is require they wear masks, while you do the same. Surface transmission of COVID has essentially been debunked.

Don't be afraid of calling the plumber!

[quote] Trump followers and anti-vaxxers will make it necessary for the rest of us to wear a mask,

But we’re constantly being told masks protect others, not the wearer.

[quote] Pfizer and Moderna are saying their vaccines are 95 and 94.5 percent effective. That means there's a 5 percent chance vaccinated people can get it anyway.

Which is why I said “in theory.”

95% and 94.5% are extremely high efficacy rates. The other factor is that if enough people eventually take them, then herd immunity can be achieved (not with the stupid way the anti-lockdowners wanted to achieve it, of letting as many people as possible be infected with the virus). I think if around 50-60% of the population have the vaccination then that should be enough for the virus to disappear.

"Although SARS-CoV-2 genetic material may still be detected in respiratory or stool samples for several weeks, no live virus (that can cause infection) was found in any type of sample collected beyond nine days of symptoms starting and people with SARS-CoV-2 are mostly likely to be highly infectious from symptom onset and the following five days.

The majority of viral transmission events occur very early, and especially within the first 5 days after symptom onset, indicating the importance of self-isolation immediately after symptoms start."

R169, that was not me at R165. Why would you think it was? Seriously, why?

If you’re going to criticize someone by name, even as gently as you did, you really should be certain of who that person is.

As it happens, I have had my cleaning person here, and hope to have her here again this week, but it’s a complicated week, so it might be pushed out.

I go peruse the far-right sites and their big concern is the issuance of "Vaccine Passports." You see, they think that these will be issued like a driver's license and will have to be shown on demand at stores, airports, and restaurants, or generally wherever people congregate. On this credit card type ID, other information will be added, slowly at first, and then will become a national ID. This keeps them up at night and they refuse the vaccine for the medical issue conspiracy theories along with this reason, as you will be tracked with the 5G signal from Verizon with the card, and also all your bank information will be available in real-time to the IRS.

[quote] R152: Explain this mask thing to me like I’m five years old:

The most recent thing I’ve heard is that masks protect both the wearer, and those around him.

If the vaccine is 90%+ effective, it will produce heard immunity. People who don’t get the vaccine won’t catch the disease because there will be so few people around him, to catch the disease from.

You also must think of the social stigma. If you are vaccinated early, people will want to know what’s so special about you, Bub?

There’s always the possibility that the you are in the 5% to 10% for whom the vaccine is not effective. So, until there is heard immunity in your area, you might want to continue taking precautions.

R177 - and so it should be or they should be denied insurance coverage. The only way to prevent us from going on with the damned masks for another decade, which I think, in spite of everything, people are really not going to do. The "new normal" will not last because it is unsustainable and against human nature, regardless of the good reason behind it. People will tire of the masks and the distancing and isolation. Once a vaccine is out they will go back to their old ways and anyone who proposes a national mask mandate will lose or be met with opposition. I don't agree with this behavior, but it will just be what people will do.

[quote] as you will be tracked with the 5G signal from Verizon with the card,

Oh no. What about in areas Verizon doesn’t have 5G?

I guess the gub’mint will just switch to Cricket Mobil for that.

[quote] it will produce heard immunity.

It’s lit, ya heard?!

R179 I was with you until the last sentence. People are not just tired of the masks. They are tired of not being able to do anything because of social distancing. Dining, going to the theater, working out at the gym, going to parks, visiting family, working from an office, going out on dates, celebrating holidays, and on and on. Sure, masks are uncomfortable, but people were willing to go along with it just so they could have some semblance of a normal life, but let's not pretend that this is all about mask wearing.

Just imagine how people would have freaked the fuck out of if they didn't have internet or a hundred internet streaming channels. I bet you sanctimonious assholes would have been drowning yourselves in alcohol right about now.

[quote]They are tired of not being able to do anything because of social distancing. Dining, going to the theater, working out at the gym, going to parks, visiting family, working from an office, going out on dates, celebrating holidays, and on and on.

Yes, it must be horrible.

Excellent points, r182. Truly hit it. Specifically around this time of the year.

CNN’s Harry Enten:

I've followed polls on a coronavirus vaccine closely. I like what I'm seeing (folks saying they'll take it is up, concerns are/can easily be addressed). % who say they'll take it matches % who said they'd take polio vaccine in 50s, which was a big success.

I have a newspaper clipping of my eldest sister taking the Polio vaccine.

My twin lost the hearing in one ear due to mumps.

It must have been scary to be a parent in those days.

I think the way to encourage all to get the vaccine is to make that the barrier between doing what they want vs. staying at home. I'm not worried about a vaccine passport but I do think it's a real possibility. Whether it can legally hold is another story.

So, really, the "young adults" are being rewarded for being irresponsible by getting priority over those of us 30-65? Fuck that. Those of us in our 40s and 50s are fucking dying and being irreparably injured by this virus and we have to go out to work in order to support both our old parents and these younger assholes. I don't understand the science behind this decision. Young adults aren't going to die from it and if they vaccinate the older (non-elderly adults), those young adults will have no one to kill with their irresponsible behavior except themselves.

I’m in NO hurry at all to take this rushed vaccine, so I’m happy to stay in the back of the line.

R189, you say that until you get Covid.

Well Cuomo, whom I can’t stand, is considering making it mandatory. Sorry, but I find that quite concerning. I’m trying to convince myself that it’s okay. I just can’t wrap my mind around making something mandatory that we don’t know what it’s long term effects are. Am I alone here in my worries?

I've been reading up on mRNA and how this vaccine works. If I have it right, it basically makes your own body code for and produce the spike proteins from Covid through the RNA. Then, your body has an immune response to those spikes that you yourself are producing with the foreign RNA that has been introduced through the vaccine. That seems like a recipe for triggering an autoimmune disease. Does anyone know how the body knows to stop producing the spike protein? Is it just when you run out of injected mRNA? Is that why the second shot is necessary, to give you enough? Has there ever been another medical treatment or vaccine where your own body's mechanisms are taken over to produce the very vector that causes the illness? Are we all going to start growing giant covid spikes out of our heads?

[quote]Has there ever been another medical treatment or vaccine where your own body's mechanisms are taken over to produce the very vector that causes the illness?

Yes, every single vaccine that has ever been developed, r192. When you take a vaccine, you are in fact being injected with a deactivated virus to trigger your immune system, so it then can develop antibodies to attack the real virus if you are infected with it.

If you don't like the sound of a that, then you should appreciate these new mRNA vaccines, because they don't inject you with a deactivated virus but send a message to your cells to make them start thinking you have the virus (even though you don't) so your body can itself start producing its own immunity.

I'm curious as to how you think vaccines work. I'm also a little worried that there is such ignorance of basic medicine and science. No wonder the anti-vaxxers are so influential and, as a result of this ignorance, the virus will continue to plague us for a lot longer when we will have the ability to get rid of it.

I read something about one of the vaccines producing antibodies in most who took it, who were all tested for them. Couldn't this potentially be a way of knowing who the vaccine "worked" for, therefore eliminating the uncertainty of possibly being part of the five percent ?

Also I thought I read that the great majority of those in that 5 vaccinated percent who did get covid were either asymptomatic or mild cases, indicating that even those who were vaxxed and caught it didn't get very sick for the most part.

I’m not taking it until this time next year to see if others have side effects.

Lots of carriers who 'have' had the vaccine may expose you to it though, R195. You will not be able to rely on others to protect you. They will all be unmasked and will no longer be social distancing.

70 to 90% efficacy being reported in the UK for the Oxford group's vaccine

It's 70% efficacy for the Oxford vaccine and in a handful of cases where the second dose was a half-dose they apparently found 90% efficacy - about the same number of cases in which the Russian Sputnik supposedly has 92% efficacy (20 cases, I think).

Some of you fuckers will be barricaded in your homes 20 years from now, happy to have an excuse to be agoraphobics and social misfits, making your way through a labyrnth of stacked boxes of Lysol Wipes to hose the place down after every Amazon delivery of...Lysol Wipes and cat litter.

Actually, to be clear, the Oxford vaccine has 62% efficacy if administered in 2 doses a month apart and 90% efficacy if administered with half a dose first followed up by a full dose a month later. But the lower dose was only trialled on a few participants so it needs more trials. The 70% figure is the result of combining the 60.2% and 90%. Oxford are massaging their figures. They should really be saying "the vaccine has 62% efficacy and preliminary results on a lower dosage have suggested that it could have 90% efficacy although more research is needed on this."

[quote] But we’re constantly being told masks protect others, not the wearer.

The CDC announced on 11/11 that masks protect the wearer too.

I'm so paranoid, I wear two masks, a smaller, Livinguard mask that covers my nose and mouth, and a larger accordion-style mask that covers the whole lower half of my face. I live in the city and there's always one asshole on the subway or at the grocery store with his/her mask under their nose or being worn as a chin hammock.

It may or may not make a difference, but it keeps me from jumping out of my skin when I see someone not wearing a mask properly.

[quote] Well Cuomo, whom I can’t stand, is considering making it mandatory. Sorry, but I find that quite concerning.

Link please.

So far he has said the exact opposite.

This may have been posted earlier at DL. A gay guy talks about his vax experience.

I have to agree with R199. I've had maskless repair people, including 5 men who spent 3 hours installing my air conditioner, traipsing through my flat over the past 8 months. And I'm completely fine. Either I'm exceedingly lucky, I'm immune and don't know it. Or people are sucking up way too much media-generated paranoia and need to step away and go outside for a bit of fresh air.

As far as vaccine effectiveness, I would take claims with a rather large boulder of salt. They're guesstimates, wishful thinking until vaccines hit the real world and real-world data can be accumulated and analysed.

Why on earth did you permit maskless tradespeople into your home?

[quote]I've had maskless repair people, including 5 men who spent 3 hours installing my air conditioner, traipsing through my flat over the past 8 months

You mean people who didn't have the virus didn't transmit it to you? Astonishing!

Thanks for the link R203. He's my state senator and I was happy to vote for him again earlier this month.

Here's something that was in the story that should allay some of the fears that they're 'moving too fast' with the vaccines:

[quote] Traditionally, cost-conscious pharmaceutical companies move slowly, starting with a product in a so-called Phase 1 of testing and ensuring it works before moving on to larger (and expensive) Phase 2 and 3 trials. Now, all those steps are happening simultaneously — at great financial cost but not in a way that sacrifices the scientific integrity of the process.

[quote]Why on earth did you permit maskless tradespeople into your home?

R205 Because I haven't spent months sucking up media fear-mongering 24/7. I also never wear a mask unless compelled to.

[quote]You mean people who didn't have the virus didn't transmit it to you? Astonishing!

R206 Shazam eh? People who I had no idea whether they had been exposed to or were carriers of the virus walked into my house, spent, in some cases hours. . . and I'm still alive to tell the tale.

Last week, Columbia U epidemiologists estimated that 3.6 million people in the U.S. have active coronavirus infections and are shedding enough virus to infect others.

That's a bit more than 1 percent of the population -- meaning the vast majority of people one encounters on a day-to-day basis are not going to be infected.

The problem, of course, is that you can't identify the people that are contagious by sight. And the prevalence of the virus in the community varies from one place to the next. And the numbers are increasing exponentially almost everywhere.

So yes, not taking proper precautions and not getting the virus is the definition of "dumb luck."

R208 but you've seen the reports of hundred of thousands of people dying in the US and concluded that dying or getting very sick from this illness couldn't happen to you?

It may, I hope it doesn't, but it may.

Indeed, R210: makes you wonder how those 250,000-plus people (in the US alone) died. Maybe believing you won't keeps you from being infected.

R196 I’m still going to be wearing my mask.

The way some people get so angry at people questioning these supposed vaccines and who would rather wait awhile to get it rather than rushing to get it makes me wonder if those people angry have stock in these companies or something. Because why would you care if others choose to hold off? If anything, it will allow those who want it to get theirs faster.

Actually, 1% seems pretty high, to me. If I offered you $100 if you fired a gun into your head, and there was only a 1% chance that there was a bullet in the chamber, would you do it? The odds are not good enough to jump at the offer.

Or, put it another way, r214:

I put a bowl of 100 M&Ms in front of you. One of them is deadly poison. Are you going to eat one?

Hey, asshole at R193, try some reading comprehension to go with your arrogance. We have never had another vaccine that makes your own body create the VECTOR itself, which is how these mRNA vaccines work. It will not be tricking your body into thinking you have been infected like you seem to think. It will actually be directing your body's cells to create the spike protein from Covid. We, ourselves, will be creating the protein that our immune system will be responding to. A foreign RNA sequence will be encoded into our own cellular production mechanism and our own cells will become the factories producing the protein that our own bodies will then respond to with its immune defense.

This is a novel vaccine. So, kindly go fuck yourself with your own arrogant ignorance because people like you who pretend to speak authoritatively from a place of stupidity, are what is wrong with this country.

R213, this is JMHO, but I think people are at a stress level of 18 on a scale from 1-10 and see this as a way out of this mess, so when someone questions it (which I think is correct, even though I want to be the first on line to get one), it’s more incredulity than anger.

[quote] makes your own body create the VECTOR itself,

What’s our vector, Victor?

[quote] The way some people get so angry at people questioning these supposed vaccines and who would rather wait awhile to get it rather than rushing to get it makes me wonder if those people angry have stock in these companies or something. Because why would you care if others choose to hold off? If anything, it will allow those who want it to get theirs faster.

Because if other people don't take it, then case numbers and fatalities will continue to rise as people get tired of these lockdowns. The rest of us who do get vaccinated will have to live with the consequences because of those who don't, which is more lockdowns, more suicides, and more wealth inequality. It's pretty easy to understand actually.

R188 No they're not being rewarded. Actually the thinking is that by giving vaccine to them first, it'll slow the spread to other age groups. Millennials BTW more so than any age groups younger or older, are most likely to hold antivaxxer views. This is backed up by studies and FWIW I see it with my patients both ones who are childless and those with kids. Dumb parents who refuse or delay vaccinations for their kids due to a variety of reasons, of the main reasons being they like to live natural/ holistic lives. This is the age group that studies have shown to believe that vaccination should be parental choice instead of mandatory, more than double the percentage of other age groups who say otherwise (about 40% to 20%) and 1 in 5 Millennial believe that vaccines cause autism.

So if we give priority in vaccination to this age group first, maybe it will help with containment of spread. That's the reasoning behind it, not because it's to practice discrimination against older people

Cheers R216. Too many are happy to lecture, and often speak with a sense of authority when they are quite wrong. It reminds me of a thread a few months ago wherein I had compared the different vaccines, and said when there is a choice, people ought to be educated.

Several posters accused me of being "anti-vax", and a few trolls even made the claim they were all "fairly similar", and that people should take whichever was to be made available first. Another poster claimed I was "undermining public confidence in a vaccine"... Obviously rubbish, but what does lead to this religious expectation of blind obedience, and suggesting questions are not valid?

Another worthwhile video.

Hopefully doctors and nurses will get it first so they don’t die. They have more exposure than anyone else and it does not benefit anyone for large numbers of healthcare workers to be dead or disabled. And other hospital workers ought to get it first too, everyone from the guy that sweeps the floor to the woman that empties the bedpans. They are all constantly exposed and can become disease vectors.

Second should be schoolteachers, since so many deplorables are obsessed with their kids going to school after they go everywhere else without masks.

By the time you vaccinate those two groups, you’re probably at 2022.

The vaccine from AstraZeneca and Oxford is the adenovirus "vector" jab, no mRNA utilised. For further comparison, the below article may interest some, or clarify questions.

Australia's purified protein vaccines, and the others. Clearly they are not all the same.

I’m waiting too. I don’t trust this. At all.

Hey asshole at r216, if you don't like the mRNA vaccines then you won't like the Oxford vaccine either, because that also produces the spike protein. You're also free not to get any vaccine at all, as are all the other posters who are so concerned.

Thank you r224. Now I have a better understanding.

[quote] By the time you vaccinate those two groups, you’re probably at 2022.

Those who are most at risk will take the vaccine. However, I can imagine a scenario where we remain locked down due to number of infections, despite a huge decrease in hospitalizations and deaths. There would be a huge revolt if that were the case.

[quote] Millennials BTW more so than any age groups younger or older, are most likely to hold antivaxxer views.

Then it's a good thing most are in the low risk category.

Good article r224. As that article states, the adenovirus vector vaccine also produces the spike protein.

[quote]But with these new platforms, it’s not the spike protein of the virus that’s being injected, it’s the genetic instructions for making it. The main differences between mRNA vaccines and adenovirus vector vaccines are the genetic material they use and how they get it into the cell. The mRNA vaccines use mRNA, while adenovirus vaccines use DNA.

[quote]Once the instructions are inside the cell, the cell’s machinery reads them to manufacture the spike protein of the virus. The newly minted spike proteins are either secreted from the cell or attached to its surface, where other cells from the immune system can identify the spike protein and begin manufacturing antibodies to it.

Holy shit, Texas new Covid cases have risen by almost 38,000 cases in the past 20 hours. They usually average 7,000 to 10,000 per day

Georgia's has risen 8,537 (they average 1,200 to 3,400 per day)

According to published data, r231, Texas went up by 8,534 cases. Where did you get 38,000?

R222 Thank for sharing. Great video.

Has a messenger RNA vaccine ever been produced at this scale and ever used in humans before? Just curious.

I just got my first jab of AZD1222 (the vaccine created by the University of Oxford & AstraZeneca) this morning. Suffering some minor side effects like a slight fever and a bit congested but otherwise fine. I go for my second shot in 29 days.

Pfiser's vaccine needs to be kept refrigerated properly to stay effective.. Imagine distribution. This will end in tears.

Turtle Senator will not approve Coronavirus Relief Bill that does not have pharmaceutical immunity from lawsuits in it for vaccines.

[quote] Pfiser's vaccine needs to be kept refrigerated properly to stay effective.. Imagine distribution. This will end in tears.

They've designed a self-contained unit in which to ship the vaccine. It keeps it at the proper temperature until it's needed.

[quote] We also have developed packaging and storage innovations to be fit for purpose for the range of locations where we believe vaccinations will take place. We have specially designed, temperature-controlled thermal shippers utilizing dry ice to maintain recommended temperature conditions of -70°C±10°C for up to 10 days. The intent is to utilize Pfizer-strategic transportation partners to ship by air to major hubs within a country/region and by ground transport to dosing locations.

Most people don’t want this rushed vaccine

Even Fauci has criticized Cuomo and Newsom for their independent panel. The reason why people are scared is because they are sheep who believe whatever the media tells them to.

Most people want a vaccine.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Based on nothing but media and NPR, I think if I had to choose one of the three options, I am leaning towards the AstraZeneca and Oxford one. If functions like a traditional vaccine. I don't want to grow covid spikes or whatever the other 2 do. Also, this one does not need to be stored at -70 degrees. It can go in a typical pharmacy fridge.

I'd be a bit weary of the Dolly Parton vaccine at this point. Early trials shows breast enhancement in 69% of participants ranging from from small enlargements to DD size.

A worry I have about the ones that have to be stored at very cold temperatures is the fact that the reason it has to be kept cold is that the mRNA component degrades. Not sure about the matrix is it carried in. But, either way, it would seem like it would be very easy for you to end up with a vaccine that is ineffective or wholly deactivated because it was stored improperly for some amont of time and you wouldn't even know it.

[quote] Even Fauci has criticized Cuomo and Newsom for their independent panel.

Link please.

[quote]Also, this one does not need to be stored at -70 degrees.

Neither does the Moderna one.

African countries successfully manage to store the Ebola vaccine at -80 degrees so I'm sure most of the world, including much of Africa, can easily cope with storing the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

R243, the Oxford/AZ vaccine also produces the spike protein and has only 62% efficacy. It's possible that it might have 90% efficacy but very few trials have been done on that.

It doesn't degrade r245, it can break up though. This is why the Moderna vaccine is more complicated to make than the Pfizer one, because they've tried to develop a way to store it at higher temperatures, but that just makes it less easy to produce.

Did you get the full dose or the half dose, r235?

R235 thanks for taking the vax. Best wishes, fingers crossed

Oxford are trying too hard to claim the narrative of being the vaccine that saves the world. They first fed us all this stuff about how their vaccine was going to be ready by September and they would have 100s of millions of doses out by now. That didn't work out, however, and in the meantime BioNTech and Moderna released their interim trial results with 90% efficacy.

The Oxford vaccine really has 62% efficacy, but apparently under 3000 trials were done with a half-dose for the first shot, which apparently had 90% efficacy. Oxford can't explain why this is. They've combined these two rates together to claim their vaccine has 70% efficacy, so the newspaper headlines can sound a bit more positive, but in reality there is no such vaccine, just the one with 62% efficacy and a possible dosage regimen that may have 90% efficacy, but they need to do a lot more research on that.

The administering of a lower half-dose was apparently the result of a mistake, which is now being painted as a goofy error that has supposedly led to a great scientific discovery. That would make a great movie, right?

So, first they can't even assess what might be the more effective dosage before they start trials, then a mistake is made during the trials, which affects a little under 3000 trials, from which they then get a result that they can't actually explain.

On top of this, there is the whole narrative of how they're supposedly going to produce all this for $3 a dose and save the whole world. Although that seems to have crept up to $4 a dose. By the time actual mass production starts, it will probably be more. I'd rather have a well-made vaccine, not the cheapest one possible, and the $20 dollars a dose that Pfizer's will cost is hardly a lot of money anyway.

62% efficacy is fine, a vaccine at something like $10 a dose is great, developing a vaccine that could be out in the first quarter of 2021 is fantastic. Oxford could have done some great things without all the grand proclamations. The grand proclamations that never transpired mean that we need to take whatever they say with a huge grain of salt.

[quote] The administering of a lower half-dose was apparently the result of a mistake, which is now being painted as a goofy error that has supposedly led to a great scientific discovery.

It would be much more ironic if it was Pfizer that did this.

R251 - They didn't tell me if I got a full or half dose. I did get more side effects last night, the worst being chills and fatigue. My temperature returned to normal after being slightly elevated. On the positive of getting the side effects is that I'm pretty sure I got the actual vaccine and not the placebo.

R252 - Thanks!

Just a observation on how I got the vaccine: I went to the office of the group that is handling a part of the study in NYC early in the morning for a physical and to once again go over some procedures on how the study was to proceed. Once that was done and I was approved again to participate, they called a lab at Columbia University that was handling the actual vaccine and "placed an order" for a dose for me. I had to wait about 2 hours before the dose was ready and transported to the offices. It was interesting to see the dose was contained in an injector that was put in a sealed plastic bag and then put in one of those generic, small paper bags that you get prescriptions in. They opened the plastic seal in front of me, gave me the jab and then I had to hang out for 15 mins to see if I had any immediate reactions to the vaccine. After that, I was free to go on my way.

I have stock in one of the companies that has produced a vaccine – – I won’t tell you which one – – but I am pulling for that vaccine to get the widest distribution and mist profits.

This is the way of the capitalist.

Thanks for doing this, r235. You guys taking part in the trials really are heroes.

R257, SVB Leerbank, an investment bank specialising in healthcare, has some serious questions about the data that Oxford/AZ released. Their view might be widespread among investors, which would explain why the AZ share price fell yesterday.

[quote]They are tired of not being able to do anything because of social distancing. Dining, going to the theater, working out at the gym, going to parks, visiting family, working from an office, going out on dates, celebrating holidays, and on and on.

On the COVID frontlines, we’re tired of hearing lame excuses for risky behavior.

Stop being crybabies about a little inconvenience. We already have more than 250,000 reasons to weep — and to be thankful we are alive and can still do something about it.

So avoid crowds. Wash your hands. Stay home. Why is this so hard?

We’re eight months into COVID. World War II lasted six years and a day. The Great Depression lasted 10 years. The 1918 flu lasted two years and two months.

Are we really that soft? That careless? That selfish?

- Dr. Mark Morocco, LA physician and professor of emergency medicine

[quote] The 1918 flu lasted two years and two months.

And there really wasn't much to do at home in 1918 for leisure, other than read, listen to the phonograph, or play the piano. No widespread radio broadcasts, no television, certainly no computers, smart phones, or Internet. The majority of homes lacked indoor plumbing and electricity. Homes were smaller and households were larger, so fucking as entertainment was not a viable option. I supposed you could use the Sears Roebuck catalog to do some shopping, but it took weeks for things to arrive, not next day, like today.

[quote] So avoid crowds. Wash your hands. Stay home. Why is this so hard?

Dr. Morocco is right. We are asking so little of people right now, and yet, many people are unwilling to do even that, witness the large parties and weddings broken up recently in New York.

R261, in 1918, people got Spanish flu from handling their mail.

As bad as this is, it could be worse.

[quote] in 1918, people got Spanish flu from handling their mail.

We don’t really know if that’s true or not. Soldiers returning from war definitely brought it back with them. And remember, in the beginning of this pandemic they said the same thing and advised disinfecting your mail, then walked that back.

R257 Thank you for being honest about it. It’s obvious some of the people in this thread have stock in one of the vaccines and that’s why they get so angry whenever someone dares to question any of them or says they don’t want it.

Fuck Dr. Morocco and the rest of misanthropes and agoraphobes and scolds and spinsters and old bachelor's tending Mother's skeleton in a rocking chair with the idea that we should all gleefully buck up and spend two years, ten years, however long it takes inside our houses our only contact with the world by way of Amazon delivery people.

If it's no bother for you to spend a few years locked in your house with your memory book and your VHS tapes and Clorox Wipes, have at it. Enjoy. Your risk will remain nearly zero and you can play your Victrola.

Recognize, however, that other people who have taken every reasonable precaution and care for the better part of a year don't share you enthusiasm for continuing this course for the length of the Great Depression. While you sit about on your fat old ass, others want to see friends, family, fuck, travel, see the world, move to a new city, make new friends, new enemies, change jobs, get jobs, go back to their jobs, they want to go to a concert, a play, a restaurant without hand sanitizer pumps at the front door and waiters masked like bandits. These are not people who caused scenes at Trader Joe's or Costco, they're people who did everything they were asked to do - and will carry on doing - but they don't share your enthusiasm for continuing to do for a fucking decade.

Want to stay home for ten years, be my guest. Want me to be happy at the prospect of doing that? For waiting a few extra years for the perfect vaccine? Fuck you.

[quote] and old bachelor's

Oh, dear!

[R265] I had to go to the hospital recently for something non Covid related, and the place was swarming with police more than patients. I asked the doctor why, she said it’s because they have an unprecedented number of people suffering from mental illness and drug overdoses due to isolation and they are being picked up by law enforcement and brought to ER. I live in a big east coast major suburb. Our hospital was 2 percent Covid as of September. It’s probably more now, but not overwhelmed. Sometimes I feel as if I’m in an alternate universe. The societal side effects in my community are worse than Covid itself.

R264, anyone with Pfizer, BioNTech or Moderna stock is going to be happy. Anyone with AstraZeneca stock or shares in the Oxford spinoff companies will be disappointed.

I have no shares in any of these, but people buy and sell shares every day, it doesn't matter if you have shares in this or that company today, tomorrow you can sell them and buy others.

R267 I agree it’s becoming an increasingly mentally unhealthy situation for many. I just hugged a friend the other day, the first hug I had since March. It felt so good. Never been so grateful for a hug before. We both live alone and we only go out to do some grocery shopping now and then.

A smart man has stock in all 3 companies.

[quote]it doesn't matter if you have shares in this or that company today, tomorrow you can sell them and buy others.

Don’t eat yellow snow.

Oh, I’m sorry, I thought this was the part of the thread where we give useless advice that everyone already knows.

R265 Seek help.

R272 he’s right. You’re the one who needs help.

R273, you and the idiot you are defending have clearly already lost your minds. Who the fuck is saying to stay locked in your house for ten years? No one. You're the kind of assholes who would have eaten the marshmallows off the plate while the person running the 'temptation test' experiment was still explaining the directions. Fucking immature pieces of shit like the two of you are the reason things are so bad right now. Fucking extroverts.

I am part of the Pfizer trial.I know two other people also participating. I received the injections back in August. Zero side effects (assuming I’m not part of the placebo group) and the feedback same with the others.

Two of us still follow all the pandemic protocols . Just learned yesterday the third had himself independently tested for Covid antibodies and claims the test showed he had developed. He on, the other hand, apparently no longer masks etc

SMDH

R273 Go away and go take every single rushed COVID-19 “vaccine” that comes out.

My luck I get vaccinated and my legs stop working. So I’ll wait. I’m anti-vaxxer and I’m fully vaxxed.

[quote] R253: 62% efficacy is fine, a vaccine at something like $10 a dose is great,

At least one company offered to supply it free. I don’t know if they will charge their cost, or if they are taking a loss on each. I can’t imagine that they don’t even try to recover their own cost. Plus, how could any company afford to give out 7 billion doses worldwide, at no cost?

[quote] [R261], in 1918, people got Spanish flu from handling their mail.

Ken Burns had a story of a western town that cut itself off from the country, with armed guards at their border, but, they got sick anyway, because they allowed the mail in.

[quote] R265: Want to stay home for ten years, be my guest. Want me to be happy at the prospect of doing that? For waiting a few extra years for the perfect vaccine? Fuck you.

It’s expected to be only about a year. And you can go out to a lot of places without a mask.

I want the one that’ll hook me up to the 5g network.

[quote] Fourteen years of food rationing in Britain ended at midnight on 4 July 1954, when restrictions on the sale and purchase of meat and bacon were lifted. This happened nine years after the end of the war.

A good leader could lead. We’re looking at a single year of minor sacrifice, as a patriotic duty.

[quote] Go away and go take every single rushed COVID-19 “vaccine” that comes out.

I, and apparently quite a few others posting in this thread, applied for these clinical trials in order to expedite the development of a vaccine. You, on the other hand, do nothing but spread misinformation and attack others while doing nothing to educate yourself beyond watching a few channels. You can go shove it.

No one should be ridiculed for staying home, wearing masks when they do cautiously venture out, or for planning to do so for the immediate future. We all have individual choices to make, and these individuals are following the best advice. Those who are criticising them know nothing of their demographic, pre-existing conditions, or other comorbidities.

There are many valid reasons why they may be vaccine hesitant as well, and rightfully so. Many have experienced complications, or adverse effects from prior vaccinations. Before the tide turned in public opinion, to a pro-vax at all costs mentality for "the greater good" many of these individuals were advised by their physicians not to take another vaccine. Whether it be seizures, Guillian-Barré Syndrome, Hashimoto's, or other auto-immune disorders post vaccination.

Instead of knee jerk reactions to these posters, they ought to be applauded for social distancing, and making that sacrifice for the "greater good".

R284 Thank you for being the voice of reason.

R284 link your claims or shaddup.

Vaccine rollouts will take a long time and they will target healthcare workers, frontline workers and vulnerable groups first. Once they get vaccinated, it will be apparent to the sceptics that the vaccine is fine and works, so a lot of this "queasiness" towards the vaccine will dissipate and more and more people will get it, once it becomes available to them.

I'm one of those signed up for the J&J trial next month.

Does anyone know what happens if you're in a trial, given a placebo (they know, you don't) and a vaccine becomes widely available. It seems that they would be ethically bound to let you know you've been given the placebo and give you the opportunity to opt-out of the trial and get the real vaccine on your own, but I can't find anything in the materials which would confirm that.

R288 if you participate in a trial where you receive a placebo but those who receive the drug receive medical benefit, it's usual for the (active) drug to be offered/given to you (without charge and soonish.)

R289, FWIW, you’re one of the reasons I love Datalounge.

That person asked the question and I’m thinking “damn! That’s a good question. I wonder what the answer is,” and here you come along in under an hour with an answer.

Have yourself a fine day.

[quote]Once they get vaccinated, it will be apparent to the sceptics that the vaccine is fine and works,

R287 Assume much??

Past generations left their families, jobs, and friends to enlist in the armed forces and stormed beaches of a foreign country to fight back evil, many of whom were killed doing it.

We’re being asked to wear a piece of fabric over our mouth and nose when we’re among people for the greater good and people like r265 can’t handle it.

R289 thanks for the info!

R292 We're cancelling Thanksgiving and you think the majority of people are pissed off only because of masks? Really?

R292 is making an utterly disingenuous representation of R265 wrote, and has to know it.

Anyone who can reduce all of the actual sacrifices people have made throughout the pandemic to just wearing a mask at Costco -- the job losses, the industries shuttered, the isolation, and the total upheaval of people's lives over the past year -- is being deliberately obtuse.

And enough with the tiresome scolding about how grandpa stormed Normandy. It's a cheap appeal to emotion with a dangerous logic, since the essence of it is that because people had it worse in the past, no one can wish for anything better in the present.

R295 asked his teacher if WWII was in 1970.

R296 can't refute an argument, so resorts to pathetic retorts that seem like they should be jokes, only without the humor.

R288, there's a bit of a debate about that. A lot of people think that, yes, trial participants should know whether they got placebo or not when a vaccine is available, because they can't really provide informed consent if they are not informed of all the choices they could take. Some people, however, think society's need for well-conducted clinical trials against a pandemic is more important. But -- if *your* vaccine, the JNJ vaccine, proves effective, and they're ready to vaccinate the world with it, then the trial is basically over, and it becomes hard to justify keeping you in the dark about whether you got vaccine or placebo.

I want to know how much Trump Org is going to grift as a middle man for the vaccine purchases.

[quote] r288: ...given a placebo (they know, you don't) an

Actually, they usually don’t know. They learned that, if the medical provider knows, they subconsciously skew the results. Interesting, isn’t it?

Yes, you’re right, r300.

That’s where the terms “blind” and “double blind” come in, r288.

When the subject and provider both don’t know it’s called a “double blind” test. IIRC.

[quote] Actually, they usually don’t know. They learned that, if the medical provider knows, they subconsciously skew the results. Interesting, isn’t it?

Well SOMEBODY has to know who gets the real vaccine and who gets the placebo, right? Otherwise how would they know it works?

R303, yes, but those people don't have any contact with the volunteers.

r303, I heard an interview on NPR a couple of days ago with a guy who participated (an older Asian man with either high blood pressure or diabetes). He knew because he got minor flu symptoms the day after the 2nd shot

I wonder how much of that is psychosomatic.

R286 I don't believe we have links to provide for each posters own medical situations, but you shouldn't need links at this point for evidence social distancing and masks are crucial to ensuring public health.

There are plenty of guidelines for more complicated adverse reactions, and I'll allow you to spend your own time looking those up.

More for R286

One more for the charming and erudite "shaddup" schmuck, R286.

Eldergays who are remaining in their homes for most of the time, wearing masks when out and about, and who decide not to take the first round, or even second round of jabs are in no way a threat to your health. It's paranoia, or some other disordered thinking which makes you feel you have the right to insist upon their taking a vaccination.

Several months ago Bill Gates said of the dozens of vaccines that were being developed some were bound to fail. So far Moderna and Pfizer's vaccines look superb - but, yes, so far. Awaiting more details and many peer reviews. As for Oxford's even the press release left many questions and doubts. I hope they were be cleared up promptly because all I see so far is nationalistic self congratulations.

We only have ourselves to look after as concerns our own health, and the choices we make. I know these two incidents shall be called anecdotal cases, and irrelevant, however I ask those who maintain the vaccines are right for everyone, to seriously themselves what they would do if in fact it was their own experience.

My uncle took nearly two and a half years to learn to walk again, after a diagnosis of Guillian-Barré Syndrome, shortly after suffering a reaction to an influenza jab. Thankfully it was administered in hospital, so he was admitted immediately. He was told not to take any further vaccinations.

I was given an extra dose of tDap, in an ER that could not find my record of having the booster three years prior, at the same hospital. They refused to stitch me up, unless I would consent to one. I had a seizure within fifteen minutes, and have had epilepsy since 2009. No previous seizures, head injuries, or a family history. I also had a Yellow Fever jab three days prior for travel requirements. I too have been told, I may not be a good candidate for any more vaccines, and to specifically avoid and refuse further exposure to tDap jabs, or any jabs containing cellular pertussis. I'm fully vaxxed, yet do not take any of them now. I won't be taking this one either.

Yes, anecdotal. I wouldn’t say “irrelevant”, though.

9 months to rush a couple of vaccines

2 years to find out the full effect

I was listening to NPR and a lot f local businesses are going to require their employees to get the vaccine to continue employment. This was a restaurant owner, the interviewee. The reporter was saying that they can mandate employees get the vaccine, but there are work arounds for various reasons to get out of it.

There are always gems among the piles of shit on DL. It seems like the overall general consensus is not an aversion to the vaccine, but the majority on here are taking the wait and see approach, which seems pretty sensible. If you live in a hot spot that has been one 9 month wave with massive swells every few months, where masks have been mandatory since late spring, masking up, hand washing, and social distancing or meeting up outdoors is just part of life. I imagine it was what eldergays had to get used to and all young gen x/old millennials ever knew before prep. If this were a "Contagion" style virus where it was a quick and certain death if you caught the virus, the risk would outweigh any potential side effects.

I know R313! I’m anti-vaxxer for now.

Has everyone gotten their flu shot? I have never had one and my friends who have had one in the past say it makes them sick for a few days. Is everyone doing the flu shot on here, especially the ones that are rushing for the Covid vax?

I've gotten annual flu shots for the past 20 years and never had any symptoms, just a little soreness for a day in the muscle where they shot it in.

Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) is already sounding the alarm about potential Covid vaccine grifting. By big pharma

R316, being sick from the flu shot for a few days is an extreme reaction. I haven't even heard anyone say yet they were sick for that long by being on a COVID vaccine trial. I got my flu shot about a month ago. For a few hours I felt some soreness at the injection site, all the way down the arm, and even in the other arm (?) but then it went away.

An elder gay we know gets a senior flu shot which he claims is a super dose.

I get the fu shot every year, for decades, with no adverse reactions.

I’m going to get the COVID shot when it is available. I’m tired of this crap.

I anticipated getting old, but I never anticipated becoming handicapped. That’s a new thought for me.

[quote] I get the fu shot every year,

I got the FU shot one year too.

My company was downsizing.

[quote]Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) is already sounding the alarm about potential Covid vaccine grifting. By big pharma

No shit. Without Medecins, I'm not sure anyone would have made the possible connection between manufacturers of a wildy in demand lifesaving drug sought by billions and profit.

[quote] Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) is already sounding the alarm about potential Covid vaccine grifting. By big pharma

trump signed deals with all these companies months ago for millions and billions. BEFORE there were any positive results

One thing we know about trump is that he doesn't know how to make a good deal.

[quote] link your claims or shaddup

Spoken like a true, pathetic loser who failed high school science

Shoo, bad dog. Go away. The adults are talking

Why aren't Moderna and Pfizer constantly testing their trial participants to see if they get Covid? They are only following the model of testing when people are exposed or have symptoms. That means they aren't catching asymptomatic cases at all. It would be good to know if their vaccines actually prevent infection or just prevent development of symptoms because the asymptomatic are still contagious and can pass it to those who haven't yet been vaccinated. And, you know that once people start getting vaccinated, they're going to stop wearing their masks.

Couldn't that create a situation where there are even more asymptomatic cases among the very groups that are already acting irresponsibly, namely the "young adults", who will then feel that they can go ahead and do whatever they want, including visit grandma without a mask?

BioNTech/Pfizer and Moderna are continuing to test their trial participants to see if they get Covid, r326. Where did you get this dumb claim that they're not from? Please stop making shit up.

Prof. Ugur Sahin, who developed the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine, said: [quote]The trial will continue to collect efficacy and safety data in participants for an additional two years.

R324, lots of governments and the EU signed pre-order deals. This helped the companies to get on with their trials and will ensure supplies to those pre-ordered. Advance payments weren't made though.

[quote]Has everyone gotten their flu shot? I have never had one and my friends who have had one in the past say it makes them sick for a few days. Is everyone doing the flu shot on here, especially the ones that are rushing for the Covid vax?

This. Never. Happened. Either they were already sick/infected, they had something else.....or they're just full of shit. You don't get the flu from the flu shot,

R329 - A lot of people do say they get mild flu like symptoms after the flu shot. It's not debilitating or anything, but it's not to of the question. This is feedback I've heard from 40 & under and healthy.

Our health institution is getting the Pfizer vaccine. They told us we’ll be getting them early-mid December. I’ll be the first to line up for it.

Hold off on AstraZeneca...

Apparently our hospital system is one of 7 chosen by the state to be the first to be inoculated with the vaccine. It’d be interesting to see how the vaccines are stored.

Just an update: I did get a more intense round of side effects a day after getting the AZD1222 (Oxford/AstraZeneca) vaccine. Came down with a really bad case of the chills, felt achy and my temperature yo-yoed from normal to running a slight fever for about 48 hours. By Day 3, the side effects went away and I feel normal. I have a follow-up call with the research team on Monday and I'm still scheduled to get my second shot right before Christmas.

Have you grown a second penis yet?

[quote] You will still be mandated to wear a mask long after you get the vaccine.

What are you talking about? The mask is not "mandated" in multiple states.

R316/R330 Then that's not the same thing at all.

"My friends who have had one in the past say it makes them sick for a few days" is not the same as "A lot of people do say they get mild flu like symptoms after the flu shot."

You can't get influenza from the flu vaccine. Do you understand that and the science behind it?

"Sick for a few days" could be the flu or it could be any one of a number of other maladies, none related to the flu shot or the flu.

"Mild flu-like symptoms after the flu shot" is exactly what you should get: a mild reaction.

You wrote you don't get one so presumably you don't think it works. Why not just say that?

I asked my brother-in-law who is a genetic research doctor about his opinion on the r332 article, and this was his reply:

Agree with it on the whole. Pretty embarrassing for them. We do know the Astra vaccine is safe and effective. What we don’t know yet is how effective. If this is the only vaccine data we’d seen, we’d probably say this is roughly in line with what was expected efficacy-wise. But the problem is that the Moderna and Pfizer vaccine data looked incredible, way better than the base case. Astra is now planning to run a new trial using the half dose then full dose strategy that they serendipitously discovered seems to work better so we’ll get to see what that looks like in a proper trial.

But based on what we know now, I would choose the Moderna or Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine over Astra’s every time.

I don’t see us vaccine shopping.

“Oooh, look, Walmart has the Pfizer vaccine. Oh, wait a minute, Target has the Moderna AND it’s $1.00 off.”

“No, I’m holding out for the Zeneca one.”

I think it’ll be a matter of what’s available from your doctor when you’re there and it’s available to you (your phase).

May I write, thank God! I never expected a vaccine so soon. It gives me some hope! My siblings are all 60-74, and based on our parents and theirs, they can be healthy and productive for another decade, or even two decades.

You can write whatever you want, r340!

Oh, and I’m with you on your entire sentiment.

Your friends were hung over, R330.

R327, you stupid arrogant ass, they are not testing all the participants constantly like you seem to believe. No one said they are not testing or following up or tracking data. Why don't you try some reading comprehension some time? They are testing the same way the general public is tested. If they've had a possible exposure or if they show symptoms. Asymptomatic cases are not being found just like they are not being found, for the most part, outside of the vaccine trials. So sick of assholes like you who pretend they know what they are talking about. Why don't you read one of the thousand articles about people participating in the trials and notice no talk of them being tested all the time, you low-information ignoramus?

What's ignorant r343 is people who think they know more about how to trial vaccines than top-level scientists and major pharmaceutical companies who've developed medicines that save millions of lives all around the world every day do.

R17 - you ain't impressing nobody until you remember to say that Bill Gates will administer it right under a 5G tower while Soros jacks off watching and send the picture to Dee Plorable in Wisconsin.

But all kidding aside, I am a bit nervous about unknown long term side effects but then again, my ass is nervous about COVID...I am a pandemic mess of "what ifs". This shit is exhausting.

Since these new mRNA vaccines cause your body to actually make the spike proteins from the outer shell of the Covid virus, does anyone here know how your body knows to stop producing them? Is it just when the mRNA strands in the initial dose are used up? Do those not replicate as well? I haven't been able to find any scientific articles that go that deeply into the mechanism.

"I invented the COVID vaccine."

You know the idea of a COVID passport came up in a call with a friend back in the US today. She is a physician in LA am says it is in theory a good idea but after years at community hospitals in LA and Chicago she knows there are so many fake papers out there, so many people who exist in the US under fake names and places where passports can be forged it is a lost cause for a large part of the population. Plus, imagine the cost and logistics behind implementation.

R348, you get your vaccine, they hand you a card. They can even easily create a database that you have to register the card into if you want to travel. Can have the airlines and cruise lines implement the check as part of the ticket buying process. Not a ton of logistics there. Not foolproof and, yeah, people can go ahead and go to the trouble of getting fake ones but why bother? And, even if they did, it wouldn't be in a great enough number to matter.

Or they could just tattoo your forehead with NV for “Not Vaccinated.”

When you do get vaccinated you get to choose the design you want the N changed to. I want mine to be My Little Pony.

Think of the possibilities!

R348, According to the nutso sites, the card will come with a number along with other pertinent information encoded on a plastic card. Then there will be the mass distribution of simple card readers that can be plugged into a terminal. An app will be made for phones to read your card. To gain access to a venue, you give your card, it is scanned and it simply confirms your identity with a cross-check of a credit card or driver's license if there is a question of identity, as it will give your height, weight, hair color. This will be instituted into future divers licenses that will have a chip later down the road.

I go to these sites to see what insanity there is on the other side, but in this case, as sometimes other cases concerning the pandemic in the beginning months, they are more correct than people may think, as a vaccination proof certificate will be required as the vaccine is given to the population. This will be a certificate on paper, to begin with. Companies and the government will make it so to travel and to start having events. Don't say you were surprised.

R346, mRNA is unable to make copies of itself, and it is broken down shortly after the protein is made.

Thank you 352.

R349 - sounds simple in theory but think of it, each card will have to confirm that so and so with x ID and such had the vaccine and on day y and imagine doing that for tens of millions. That is a huge enterprise. China, India, the US, countries where there are people with no IDs...

Plus at least annually or possibly biannually, depending on how long the vaccine lasts.

R352, it breaks down quickly when free in the blood. Not so after it enters the cell and gets reproduced by our own cellular mechanisms. I'm assuming the initial breakdown is why there may be a need for two doses but I'm not sure. If your answer was all there was to it, the vaccine wouldn't work because the mRNA strands would not be read in the cells. Is it only able to be copied one time once it enters the cells? I would think it would continue to allow for the coding of the spike protein until that cell died, no? Wouldn't the ribosome just keep making more and more of the spike proteins? What stops that process? Will our bodies just continuously make covid spike proteins for the rest of our lives?

How does it make sense for people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s to be the last to receive the vaccine as seems to be the plan? These are the age groups that interact the most with both younger and older people in the form of their own children and their own parents. They are also a huge majority of the workforce. And, people in their 50s, along with some in their 40s, are actually dying from this.

R356 mRNAs are already the end products of transcription (from DNA), so they don't get copied. Either they get translated into proteins or they get degraded over time. So, however many copies of artificial mRNA are injected would be what your body has to work with. Their activities are also regulated once inside the cell, and early in vitro experiments should have determined some basic questions like the average amount of spike proteins produced per copy of the mRNA introduced into a cell.

R356 and r358, FWIW, I haven’t a clue as to what either of you are saying, but I’m glad you’re both here.

It oddly makes me feel better.

CNN: Moderna to apply today for FDA authorization for its Covid-19 vaccine.

The company will ask the FDA to review an expanded data set showing the vaccine is 94.1% effective at preventing Covid-19 and 100% effective at preventing severe cases of the disease.

"This is striking," said Dr. Paul Offit, a member of the FDA's vaccine advisory committee. "These are amazing data."

Among the approximately 15,000 people who received the vaccine, 11 developed Covid-19.

Among the approximately 15,000 people who received the placebo, 185 developed Covid-19.

That amounts to a 94.1% efficacy for Moderna's vaccine.

None of the 11 people who received the vaccine became severely ill, but 30 of the 185 who received the placebo became severely ill, and one of them died.

[quote] None of the 11 people who received the vaccine became severely ill, but 30 of the 185 who received the placebo became severely ill, and one of them died.

Oh fuck, that’s sad.

I hope they didn’t think “I’m OK, I’ve got the vaccine” when they really got the placebo.

R361 Well, someone had to get sick to prove the vaccine works. There's an ethical quandary built into the design of these trials. I guess they tell themselves, these people would have gotten sick anyway even if there were no vaccine trial. And I am sure they told them to protect themselves normally anyway, whether they got the vaccine or the placebo. But trial would have no meaningful result if none of them got infected.

Infected is one thing, dying yet another.

He's probably giving himself false credit but since Trump mentioned he has some involvement with the vaccines I will not be in any rush to take one. Maybe 60 months to a year after they're on the market but not right away. They happened too quickly and that has given me pause from the beginning. They claim they have no connection to Trump but come on, these drug companies will make literally at least a trillion dollars each. They will say anything and tell any lie to get them on the market. No vaccine has ever come to fruition so quickly. I don't believe it is safe and/or effective. I wouldn't believe seeing ppl getting them on TV because how do we know what is really in the injection they're getting. It could be only saline. If they had come about after Trump was out of office I'd feel maybe a tiny bit more secure in getting one, but now, no. There is nothing these evil drug companies wouldn't do for that kind of money. Put that together with some possible connection to Trump and I don't trust them. I just don't.

[quote]I don't trust them. I just don't.

That's your right --but be prepared to miss out on a lot of living until you do get vaccinated.

Reuters reports that people in the UK who refuse a vaccine for COVID-19 could find normal life curtailed as restaurants, bars, cinemas and sports venues could block entry to those who don’t have proof they are inoculated.

I would imagine many U.S. companies (and their insurers) will make vaccination a condition of continued employment.

[quote]Trump mentioned he has some involvement with the vaccines

He was working in the lab while his body double was on the golf course.

I've been living without almost everything other than the inside of my studio apartment since March so another few months won't drive me crazy. I can count on one hand the times I've been out since then and those were for medical tests. I get everything delivered and I'm okay with that. Between a possible Trump connection and the built in corruption of billion, soon to be trillion dollar drug companies I feel much safer staying home than getting the vaccine. There is no way it could have been tested to be safe and effective this quickly. I'll see if after a million or so others get it, including sick and elderly people and they're still okay and Covid free after about 6 months I may get it then.

Funny you should mention cards since that's exactly what I was given after getting my AZD12222 vaccine shot: An ID card that says I'm part of the vaccine program and I've been given the shot along with information on who to contact if they wanted to look it up.

You know what's funny? If they discovered a side effect of the vaccine was that it caused people to lose a lot of weight effortlessly, everyone would take it. Including R364.

R369 But the reality would more like lose a lot of weight by uncontrollable vomiting...

Won't be long before fake 'proof of being vaccinated' papers appear on the black market for those who want them for a small price.

R371 One would hope so

Do you still take the vax even if you may have had the virus?

I hope they don’t deem masks “ineffective” because I sense they will in order to force this vaccination.

More likely "they" will "force" the vaccination by barring the non-vaccinated from work, public transportation, etc.

Probably R375. Crazy.

I bet the mask will soon be seen as “science denier”, “elder killer”, “anti-vaxxer”, “Trump supporter” because you aren’t vaxxed.

They should give a stimulus check only to people who get vaccinated. That should be enough to persuade some of the vaccines are bad crowd.

Looks like I won’t be getting my stimulus check then.

[quote]vaccines are bad

Vaccines are good.

The flu vaccine uses inactivated virus, while the measles vaccine uses live attenuated viruses. Both have longterm proven safety as well as established efficacy. The main reason why COVID-19 vaccines have been so quick and timely is due to the previous efforts in developing SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. That was when scientists really perfected the mechanisms of mRNA vaccine and most importantly on the safety aspects of it.

mRNA vaccines are like cooking recipes. It provides you with the blueprint for a finished product (immune response). Once administered, the RNA instruction is translated into the target protein intended to elicit an immune response. What’s more, mRBA vaccines are produced in vitro, which allows for fast production on a large scale.

There are different forms of vaccine which theoretically deliver varying levels of protection and timeframe of protection. Live attenuated vaccines (such as measles vaccine) use genetically weakened versions of the virus. Once administered, these weakened viruses replicate in the body to induce an immune response yet does not cause disease. In the lab, the virus is attenuated by modifying it genetically or by growing it under conditions so that maintains its immunogenicity but prevents virulence. Live attenuated vaccine stimulate both humoral and cellular immunity. The type of flu vaccine that’s administered nasally is a live attenuated vaccine. For mainly respiratory infections, it’s advantageous because they can be administered intranasally. There, it induces mucosal immune responses at the site of viral entry in the upper respiratory tract. However, for a novel virus such as the SARS-CoV-2, the concern that there hasn’t been not enough time to see if the possibility exists for the virus to revert or recombine in the body to become virulent. With mRNA vaccine technology you don’t have this concern.

Sorry, meant to say the original SARS in 2002 not this current SARS-CoV-2 in this sentence “ The main reason why COVID-19 vaccines have been so quick and timely is due to the previous efforts in developing SARS-CoV-2 vaccine”

R381, the adenovirus vector has never been used in vaccines for humans before, despite repeated unsuccessful attempts. I think the only time a vaccine was successfully developed using this vector was a rabies vaccine for dogs.

R383, I might be wrong but I think AstroZeneca and Johnson & Johnson are the only one of the announced vaccines so far that are using adenovirus. They aren't the same as the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA based vaccines.

So basically the front-liners, the seniors and the fat people will be the guinea pigs?

I’m fine with either Moderna or Pfizer vaccine, FWIW the one that we’re getting is the Pfizer one. The main differences between the 2 vaccines are: Moderna tested on 30k subjects/ Pfizer 40k, Moderna vaccine given in 2 doses 28 days apart/ Pfizer same but 21 days apart, efficacy seen 2 weeks after 2nd dose for Moderna/ efficacy in Pfizer seen 7 dsys after 2nd dose. Both have very small number of reported adverse effects, with these effects dose-dependent and occurring after 2nd dose. Pfizer vaccine’s reported adverse effects were in subjects younger than 55. Adverse effects are rare and either local or systemic inflammatory response with accompanying symptoms. Theoretically this inflammatory response can be related to anything from delivery system components, overreactive antibodies, or allergic reactions similar to potential side effects of vaccines in general.

The major issues with previous attempts at mRNA vaccines weren’t with safety but rather ensuring stability of vaccine. Making sure that the encoded RNA remained stable during storage as well as administration. For the SARS-CoV-2 virus, scientists have found that the mRNA vaccine can be effectively delivered in a lipid nanoparticle to express a full-length spike protein. Positive sense single-strand RNA viruses are particularly well-suited for target with mRNA vaccine. mRNA vaccines have high immunogenicity and practically zero potential for virulence.

Another reason why mRNA vaccine is superior in this case is that encoded RNA material has high capacity for generating antiviral neutralizing immunoglobulins with 1-2 immunizations. Each immunization induces potent immunological responses by activating both CD8+ (cytotoxic) and CD4+ (helper) T cells. Targeting the response of CD8 and CD4 T cells is a part of both prevention and treatment for this particular virus. Also, there may be additional benefits of longterm immunity in targeting these T cells. Below is an article that explains why/ how at cells are involved in COVID-19 infection as well as treatment.

R384 yes, AstroZeneca vaccine is based on a replication-incompetent chimpanzee adenovirus vector that expresses the spike protein.

Sorry, here’s the article on T cells and COVID-19

R384 The Johnson & Johnson (Janssen) vaccine is based on a replication-incompetent adenovirus 26 vector that expresses a stabilized spike protein. Adenovirus 26 vectors are the ones used in Ebola vaccine as well as potential vaccines for the HIV vaccine.

[quote] replication-incompetent adenovirus

Oh, great. So the J&J vaccine is incompetent.

I don’t think that’s what it means. I think it means it can’t have children.

It means it can’t replicate within the host and become virulent and cause actual disease it’s supposed to prevent, that’s the theory anyway.

A lot of you seem to have an excellent knowledge of science and all the stuff about the vaccines. To be honest I can't follow your post. Basically I'm too dumb. So please, when you know for sure, based totally on science, can you just post here, yes it's safe to take or hold off for a while. There are problems. I'm serious. Don't just talk to me like I'm a five year old, but a very stupid five year old at that. Thanks in advance.

R393 Most of us are in the same boat as you when it comes to medical issues, including myself. Having to decide what to do and what advice to follow isn't going to be easy.

The thing is, "safe" is more of a judgment call than a fact. If (just making this up) a plane has a one in a million chance of crashing, would you consider that safe? I imagine some would say yes, and some would say no.

Here's what we do know: In the Moderna trial, about 10% of those receiving vaccine reported muscle and joint pain, fatigue, or pain at the injection site. In the Pfizer/BioNTech trial, about 4% reported fatigue, and that was the most common side effect. These trials have involved ~15,000-20,000 vaccinated people (so not counting those given placebo) over a period of months. It's possible that a bad rare side effect could happen, and it hasn't been noticed yet. It's also possible that more "down the road" problems could emerge, but that issue is rare for vaccines.

Ultimately, it's everyone's own call. But remember that the choice isn't "Should I take the vaccine or avoid all risk?" because there are risks to *not* taking the vaccine. Chief among them would be catching COVID. But other potential risks, such as social isolation, could be at play as well.

Pfizer Inc. and BioNTech SE announced today that the Medicines & Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) in the U.K. has granted a temporary authorization for emergency use for their COVID-19 mRNA vaccine (BNT162b2), against COVID-19. The companies are ready to deliver the first doses to the U.K. immediately.

It might help if those who want it to be 'safe' elaborate on what they mean by safe. Everything in medicine has side effects and deciding to take something is always a cost/benefit analysis. Birth control, pain killers, blood pressure medication, cholesterol pills, steroids - are all used regularly but all have potential side effects. Most people do not get the side effects or get a side effect that is easily managed. It's possible that 1 in every million people who take the vaccine will get some weird unpleasant side effect and 1 in every 1000 will get a headache (I'm making these up obviously). Would that be 'safe' to you. It would be considered safe in the medical community but those stats are similar to medication like NSAIDs and hormonal birth control. If the expectation for the vaccine is that not a single person gets any side effect at all then that is not realistic and if you pop a Tylenol without thinking then the vaccine shouldn't give you much pause either.

R397 True and the reality is the vaccine will be safer than catching COVID.

My 80+ year old mom is scared to take any vaccine this early. she said she'd wait out, maybe a year after. i said that's fair enough.

Your mother must live by herself, r399.

In a group setting (e.g., nursing home) she'd be wise to take the first vaccine offered to her.

If your mom has any interaction with caregivers, healthcare workers or other seniors or if she may be hospitalized any time in the near future she needs to take any vaccine she can get asap.

There are some exceptionally intelligent DLers on this thread.

I thank you.

I can’t wait to take it. I need to get back to work.

R398 do you have the gift of foresight? You know this how? We know nothing about side effects except for the really short term ones like weeks and at best a few months.

I think Covid panic and fear is becoming the thing that will cut most lives short. If we keep our distance and keep sanitising we can give the pharmaceutical companies some time to come up with something solid. Patience is a virtue.

R404 You still have a job that is paying full salary and letting you work from home don't you? For those of us who are impacted financially by the covid restrictions waiting it out is not an option, unless the government want to pay our salaries in full which is not going to appen.

R405 I have a job and yes I am allowed to work from home, getting paid 75% of my salary. I feel for those who aren’t so lucky I do but your health means something too doesn’t it? If you’d be paralysed in a year or two because of some rushed vaccine, how would you be able to do your job then? Ok this is just example of the Mexican flue vaccine but I hope you get my point.

After today, my concern about a vaccine being rushed has gone down tenfold. Today I learned that unlike European countries, the US doesn’t rely primarily on a company’s research to determine whether or not a vaccine is ready to be put on the market. The FDA relies considers the company’s data, but relies on its own research as well when making a determination.

Trump wanted a vaccine before the election and the FDA is still using a deliberate process to approve vaccines. I’m actually impressed.

Meanwhile, the UK is offering up millions of volunteers to take the Pfizer vaccine in a rush to be first. I think the US will eventually follow suit, but it’s better to be safe than sorry.

Well this probably sounds morbid but for a blue collar worker like myself who would be deep in debt and living in my car if life continued like this for 2021 I would probably rather be dead. I had to start all over after the 08 recession, retrained and had just paid off debt I accrued from college and emigrating. I don't have it in me to build up from nothing again and as a single man I'm not sure life would be worth living because even the sucky jobs are not out there now and certainly wouldn't be after another year with restaurants and stores and hotels closed in some form.

I’m already rolling up my sleeve in anticipation. This is the only way this motherfucker is going to be tamed since so many assholes won’t wear masks or distance

R408 you can always marry me and move to Holland. Life’s worth living. Don’t give up.

[quote]If we keep our distance and keep sanitising we can give the pharmaceutical companies some time to come up with something solid.

The pharmaceutical companies already think they've come up with "something solid." How many more months/years of testing and evaluation would it take to make you feel more comfortable?

Bloomberg News: The Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna inoculations may seem brand new, but they are the culmination of more than a decade of work that started during the SARS and MERS outbreaks.

In terms of side effects, I am concerned about the long term effects of these vaccines. No one really knows the long term effects of the virus, let alone vaccines. So not sure what I will do.

[quote] Mexican flue

¿Cómo?

[quote] you can always marry me and move to Holland.

I didn’t want to embarrass him, but he does not look good in clogs. Like, at all. So I don’t think he’ll take you up on it.

I figure by the time I actually get it, millions of people will have had it for a year or more, so I'm good with that.

Most of the people who are bemoaning lack of safety with regards to these vaccines are sounding alarm for the sake of sounding alarm. They’re not scientists nor medical experts, all of whom are perfectly willing to be immunized with either of these two vaccines. Most of those raising alarm are using generalized or vague phrases like “longterm side effects” “unknown and untested technology” without understanding what is meant by those terms and without true understanding of the basics of vaccine science. Vaccine side effects are rare and transient for the vast majority of people. For the Pfizer vaccine serious effects at the higher end was fatigue at 3.8% and headache at 2%. These were all transient symptoms.

Like I had previously posted, the mRNA technology isn’t new because it was honed through years of working with the original SARS virus circa 2002/ 2003. Technology has evolved to the point that mRNA vaccines can be stabilized for storage and administration without loss of efficacy.

Whichever one will make the QAnons cry the most.

R417 then it would be the Moderna one because it has higher rates of severe side effects which in total number of participants included fatigue in 9.7%, muscle pain in 8.9%, joint pain in 5.2%, and headache in 4.5%.

Okay science people, since these vaccines code for intracellular production of proteins, someone talk me down about there being any chance of some sort of delayed prion disorder becoming an issue 10 years down the line. Do other vaccines currently make you create foreign proteins? Nothing might have shown up in under 100,000 participants in the vaccine studies so far but at some point isn't it possible that the vaccine will be injected into the arm of someone whose system reacts to it by mutating the spike protein?

And, on another simpler note, what is the reason behind fewer adverse reactions in older trial volunteers? They seem to be getting protection, so I'm not sure it is due to a less reactive immune response. Or, they are overdoing the dosage across the board because even a lower level immune response in the elderly is just as effective and maybe one dose would be enough for those with better immune systems than the elderly usually possess. If one dose is enough, it would make the logistics of getting it out and the timing a lot easier. Are they sure about the two doses?

NBC's Jamie Gangel:

Three former US presidents – Barack Obama, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton – are volunteering to get their Covid-19 vaccines on camera in order to promote public confidence in the vaccine's safety.

R407, you're mistaken about European countries. It's only the UK that has rushed through an emergency use authorisation of the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine, partly for political purposes. The European Medicines Agency (EMA), which covers the EU, is going for the route of conditional marketing authorisation, which means they have asked BioNTech and Pfizer to provide much more evidence. In fact, the FDA will look at less evidence than the EMA.

The EMA will probably authorise at the end of the month. That's fine, there won't be many vaccinations done before then anyhow and it's better to build up public confidence in the vaccine than to rush things through as my idiot government has, just so it can say it's "first" and "better" (the irony, of course, being that this vaccine was developed in Germany, is being manufactured in Belgium at the plant of an American company, while our UK vaccine is a flop).

New CDC Data Suggests True Coronavirus Death Toll is Now Near 400,000.

Deaths nationwide were 19 percent higher than normal from March 15 to Nov. 14. Altogether, the analysis shows that 345,000 more people than normal have died in the United States during that period, a number that may be an undercount since recent death statistics are still being updated.

Factoring in deaths since Nov. 14 and even using just the raw number of excess deaths in the CDC data would place the true current death toll at over 372,000, but it’s certain that deaths continued to be undercounted.

[quote] any chance of some sort of delayed prion disorder

What the hell does a broken down Toyota have to do with any of this?

R419, well, all vaccines essentially deliver a foreign protein. In the traditional vaccine approach, a dead or weakened virus is given, and what the body is reacting to is largely the proteins on the virus's surface. Since we haven't heard anything about the COVID spike proteins causing a prion disorder upon infection, I wouldn't worry about artificially generated spike proteins causing that problem, either.

If the fewer reactions in older patients is "real" (that is, not a fluke or it's because older patients were less likely to report what they experienced) then I agree that maybe a lower level of immunity is effective. But -- we're not sure how long immunity will last. It's possible that the length of immunity will be shorter for older patients. I wouldn't necessarily say that they "overdid" it, because it's not certain that reducing the dose a little would have even better outcomes. There's a lot we don't know yet.

I did read that the CEO of BioNTech said that giving one dose led to a degree of protection. I'm not sure what that degree is, or how sure they are of this. It definitely would be a lot helpful if these vaccines could be given in one dose rather than two.

I'm part of the J&J trial and I got my shot yesterday.

24+ hours later, no aches, no pains. I'm thinking I got the placebo

R395 Perhaps you were not able to read the report of the the Phase 3 trials for the Pfizer jab, as it was only published yesterday. There were severe reactions, however they were not given ant attention in secondary media sources.

Despite the vaccine being widely deemed "extremely safe" by Pfizer spokesperson, as well as several leading authorities at various universities, hospitals, and countless others too numerous to specifically mention here, there were a small percentage of adverse reactions beyond injection site swelling and or pain. A few of these reported were in fact allergic reactions, persistent feelings of unwell lasting more than 48 hrs, fatigue, etc.

The UK medicines regulator advised today that anyone who has a history of 'significant' allergic reactions to medicines, food or vaccines should not get the Pfizer coronavirus jab.

Allergic reactions to the vaccine are 'very rare', according to the trials involving more than 40,000 people.

Pfizer found a 'very small number' during its phase three clinical studies, or 137 out of 19,000 people who got the vaccine. The reactions, as is typical, are said to be "probably unrelated" to the jabs, claims the Pfizer spokesman. He uses the reason that allergic reactions and anaphylactoid responses occured in those taking placebo as well.

There were reported four cases of Bell's Palsy in the group which received the vaccine. Any correlation to the jab was ruled out, on account that the frequency of incidence in the general population was the same.

To be fair, and completely transparent, one cannot claim there were no serious reactions, or adverse events, despite the overall opinion that there cannot be any conclusions to be drawn that the jabs are the cause of these observed incidents.

Today we learn of the two reports of anaphylactic response in two healthcare workers with severe allergies, and histories of anaphylaxis. It was noted the two do carry the EpiPen on them at all times.

New thread -Citizens of the world are gaslighted by miracle rushed vaccine!

Everyone from Pfizer to the government to the medical community is a stakeholder in providing positive spin about the vaccine and its effectiveness. Reality is, as always, a different matter.

No one, not Pfizer or the medical community, have a fucking clue in hell about this vaccine and its behavior, such as causing allergic reactions and worse, in real-world conditions. That’s exactly what Pfizer and the medical community will be doing, gathering data from the hundreds of millions of guinea pigs rushing to be vaccinated As well as studying vaccine effectiveness according to age, race, ethnicity, gender and pre-existing health issues, in an attempt to establish a standardized vaccine protocol.

I’m in no rush to be Pfizer’s guinea pig. I’ll wait.

I think in few months they'll figure out that the vaccines are 60-70% effective with one dose that's perhaps a little stronger. I want to wait a bit to see if that might happen. And, for a couple million people to get dosed, of course.

And, I disagree that the medical community has a vested interest in positive spin. Around the world, they are getting this vaccine first. I do think that one of the main reasons they are doing old folks' homes first is because they are the guinea pigs. If a bunch of 80 and 90 year olds don't have bad reactions, the rest of us are probably good to go.

I’m wondering how immunocompromised people will react to the vaccines.

R429, I was sort of annoyed that old people were a priority over younger people, but I suppose it’s better if people in nursing homes die than first responders.

And R428, we kept hearing (early on, as explanation for the death rates), “this is a NOVEL coronavirus that just doesn’t behave like anything we’ve encountered before!” “Doctors just don’t know...” “Science is racing to understand...”

They can’t even come up with a vaccine for the common cold.

But six months later we are supposed to believe that there’s a vaccine that’s 95% effective against this mysterious thing?

Pull the other one.

Yeah, that’s kind of my thought, R432. There’s so much disinformation about Covid period, which makes it even harder to know what’s what. I still plan to get then vaccine as soon as I can, but part of me is skeptical about its long term efficacy, and part of me worries a bit how it might affect your immune system. I have no reason to believe it’s not safe, but the long-term observations just aren’t there. I don’t think people should be condemned for asking the questions, either.

[quote] But six months later we are supposed to believe that there’s a vaccine that’s 95% effective against this mysterious thing?

One reason we can be so sure of its efficacy is that COVID is spreading so rapidly. Normally, you give 50% of the test subjects the vaccine and 50% the placebo and then you have to wait and see how each group reacts. This can take months if not years. But COVID is spreading so rapidly, subjects who were given the placebo became infected quite rapidly, while those who had been given the actual vaccine did not.

From the linked article: [quote] In May, companies and regulators began to suggest that a vaccine could be ready sooner than expected. “Once we started getting human data, then we really got more confident,” Graham said. Pfizer and Moderna began Phase III trials on July 27th. Waiting for enough volunteers to get sick—typically the most time-consuming aspect of a Phase III trial—was not likely to take long: covid-19 cases were surging around the country.

As for 'six months', I highly recommend following Carolyn Kormann in The New Yorker. Her articles are informative and very readable. In the link below she explains that they have been working on such a vaccine since 2017.

[quote] In 2017, the N.I.H. partnered with Moderna to see how rapidly they could develop an mRNA vaccine if there were a pandemic; they accelerated the effort in mid-2019. Not long afterward, a mysterious cluster of viral pneumonia cases appeared in the city of Wuhan, China, and their experiment suddenly became real. On January 10th, Chinese researchers published the sequence of the sars-CoV-2 genome. The next morning, Graham and his colleagues went to work developing a potential mRNA vaccine, using the stabilizing mutations from their research on mers.

I’m still confused. If you had COVID and were unaware because of no symptoms, do you take the vaccine anyway? Or does everyone have to take an antibody test before you are qualified for the vaccine.

i understand that you can have the vaccine even if you got infected already.

Thank you r436.

I know this is going to sound like a stupid question because I'll ask it anyway.

Do we know how long the vaccine protects people from COVID? Or is this something only time will tell.

[quote] I know this is going to sound like a stupid question because I'll ask it anyway.

R438, the Pfizer rep a few weeks ago in an interview said they hope it lasts up to three years, but they’re not sure how long it lasts at this point.

They think it’ll be good for a minimum of a year. So it may be like the annual flu shot in terms of needing one, or a booster, every year.

If the Pfizer vaccine is so extremely delicate and unstable that it must only be handled/stored under extremely precise conditions, what happens if it's accidentally *not* kept in those ideal conditions, even briefly -- e.g., the freezer temp is 1º warmer than it should be for 10 minutes? Does the vaccine becomes "spoiled" and essentially useless?

If so, how will anyone know if the dose they received is actually viable/active, and that it hasn't somehow been inadvertently rendered ineffective along the way somewhere?

They should have created some kind of condition-sensitive dye (or some other means of verifying efficacy), so that if ANYTHING goes awry with the vaccine's storage or what have you, and it's no longer active, it would change color and you'd know immediately whether it's still OK to administer.

How much does the vaccine cost?

In the US the vaccine is free.

R441, I understand what you’re saying, but hospitals and physicians are used to this type of cold storage and other requirements for meds. This is not that highly unusual. If it was unusual, nobody would currently have the capability of storing the vaccine until they bought the appropriate freezer. That’s not the case.

Sure, your basic Mom & Pop pharmacy may not have one yet, but it’s not like it’s unheard of.

What you’re asking is almost akin to asking how do they know they got the right vial of medicine with all the other similar looking vials.

R438, I wondered that as well. Also, does contracting the virus and surviving provide longer lasting immunity versus the vaccine? Maybe like you said, only time will tell.

Some of you bitches are way too angry. Everyone is afraid of side effects and nobody wants COVID and most of us will take it. Relax.

[quote]hospitals and physicians are used to this type of cold storage and other requirements for meds

Oh, for sure. I know that. I'm talking about the transport by FedEx and UPS, and what might potentially happen to the shipments en route *to* the hospitals and physicians.

I just saw a special on medications that have to be refrigerated for transport, like insulin.

In the cooler it’s shipped in, they put a thermometer type of thing that records if the temperature ever reached below manufacturer specs.

My concern isn’t so much that it’ll be injected and be useless as much as it is those doses would have to be trashed and there’s obviously a limited supply.

R445, it appears that it may be the other way around (but only time will tell), that getting the vaccines offers more durable immunity than contracting the virus and recovering.

Isn’t that true of most vaccines?

Genuinely asking, not be facetious.

R450, it's not a guarantee, but vaccine makers do try to exceed natural immunity and often succeed. The HPV vaccine is lot more protective than natural immunity. But flu shots tend to dwindle after just a few months.

Thanks, r451.

We’ll eat out an asshole but are worried about what may be in a vaccine?

😂

R453 = Sam Kinison

Yeah, so homophobic I’m gay and on a gay board FFS.

Easy, Cupcake, for one it was a joke and two I purposely said “we.”