Forgiving student loans should only be for certain degrees

I nominate OP to lead the student loan cancellation death panel. His decisions around who receives forgiveness and who doesn’t will be opaque, partial, and infallible. Thank you for your eminent wisdom, OP.

Well I do have Bachelors in Science degree in Information Science so mine should be forgiven.

Most student debt is held by people from wealthy backgrounds who study fields with no career prospects.

Working class students carry less debt to begin with and go into lucrative fields.

Fuck you, OP.

Since we are on the subject, is the administrative forbearance going to be extended after December 31? I hope they realize just because the year is up does not mean COVID is over. We are about to enter the worst period and people are in even worse shape financially than earlier this year.

r4=lawyer

(lowest of the lows, no forgiveness)

It's unknown at this point, R5. Congress would have to approve it, as I don't believe Trump could issue an executive order that would extend past the end of the year. If Congress doesn't do anything now, it will be up to the new administration to give us a break next spring.

[quote] Most student debt is held by people from wealthy backgrounds who study fields with no career prospects. Working class students carry less debt to begin with and go into lucrative fields.

HAHAHAHAAAHAAHAAAAA— oh are you being serious?

R8 Yes.

OP doesn't have any friends. He just made up this one, to use as a straw man against debt forgiveness.

If you want to do a good deed, the next time someone tells you they're going to law school, slap the ever-loving shit out of them.

I know lawyers making 65k with 300k student debt. It's crazy.

r10 majored in Art history.

Whole generations of STEM aspies walking around. That sounds thrilling.

The people carrying the most student loan debt are those where the family makes too much to receive financial aid, but not enough to cover the cost of school.

It's a great way to fuck the middle class/lower middle class, and prevent their offspring from doing better than their parents.

Isn't DL always complaining about appreciation of fine arts, music, literature being dead?

And what, OP? You voted for Trump to underline your point, right?

Screw that. Pay your bills.

Bankruptcy is for losers like Donald Trump, who should also be forced to pay his fucking bills.

"Most student debt is held by people from wealthy backgrounds who study fields with no career prospects."

No, wealthy people can pay for their kids to go to college. They don't need to take out loans.

It's actually people of color who are hit the hardest

[quote]the average black borrower owes closer to $34,000.

I would kill to have to owe this.

White, in the hole with hundreds of thousands.

I went to an Ivy, with help from my parents, and retired my debt only three years ago. Should someone only two years behind get a free ride? I’ve paid hundreds of thousands that could have gone for many other things. Please, justify? Particularly those who didn’t prepare in undergrad for the economy presented to them. I’ll wait. Thank you.

OP, you're an ass. Your friend (if real) sounds like a fuck-up but that's no reason to discourage *everyone* from studying the arts. Most acting MFAs don't drop out when they land good projects and the art history majors you made fun of sometimes go on to careers in museums or galleries, e.g. Conversely, not all STEM grad go on to success in their fields.

Some college grads make better use of their education than others, obviously, but it would not be practical to examine every graduate's academic and professional track record and decide who really deserves loan forgiveness. Among many other reasons, we'd never reach agreement on what constitutes success and what it means to make good use of a degree.

When did you graduate r21? If it was before the 2008 global recession, you had a much better "economy presented to you", and more opportunities available to make an income to repay your debt.

R21 is one of those people who vote based on resentment.

"I didn't get something, so no one else should either!"

[quote] I went to an Ivy, with help from my parents, and retired my debt only three years ago. Should someone only two years behind get a free ride?

Gotta draw the line somewhere. "People who are just barely on the wrong side of the line will be bitter" doesn't strike me as a good reason to scrap the idea.

R22 But, we have some agreement about what constitutes “success,” don’t we? You alluded to it. Paying the rent. While I sweated out an English degree from Dartmouth (followed by three years at Yale law - got into Harvard, but no assistance and fam couldn’t cover the difference between loans and cost), Dartmouth drama students (most on scholarship) did nothing useful and drove up tuition I had to pay. I’d have loved to have gone to Harvard law, and my career would have benefited, but the loan load was too much. So, now I get punished because play actors needed to play?

R26 I’m just talking about equity. We are all equal in the eyes of the universe. No one of us is worse or better, So, we should be treated equal. I worked very, very hard to pay off my student loans. The idea anyone would get to erase them is anathema. Deciding “no more loans,” well OK.

If you took them out, you pay them. If you haven’t yet, maybe you don’t have to? Only equitable approach. Forward looking.

r24 I’m talking about a year or two, not decades. I busted my ass to get the combined student loan off of me. I went without while my contemporaries enjoyed. Is that not relevant? Have you determined someone else’s happiness, someone else’s joy, is worth more than mine? Based on nothing other than my slavish addiction to fulfilling commitments I made and reality?

Actually, no, r26, I don't think success is necessarily synonymous with earning a comfortable living and that's one of those issues people will never agree on. Deciding that people who are struggling to pay the rent are the ones who should have to repay their student loans makes no sense, now does it? Which majors are"useful" is another issue that's endlessly debatable. I know I wouldn't want the theater and film industries to disappear or diminish in quality because theater majors are expected to pay full tuition while other students get a free ride.

R30 Maybe, and you’ve given me some to think about, for sure. But, then shouldn’t the thresholds for those programs adjust accordingly to be as selective as the entire college? I can say they hadn’t (Rimes was an anomaly) and believe they haven’t still at my undergrad alma matter.

Dataloungers are some of the most supremely messed up people I've ever been around online, and I was posting to Usenet by 1993, so I've been around a lot of fuck-ups.

Yet a majority of people here act as if they're the most perfect, wise, intelligent, reasonable people to ever exist, and their every opinion is indistinguishable from fact.

R32 Huh? I’m sure all is as you left it at Pamona College in 1952.

No wonder this country is fucked. Bitter cunts unwilling to help anybody else because they suffered.

R29 etc., you are taking this way too personally. No one is suggesting that you are a lesser person or your life and joy are worth less than other people's because you had to bust your ass to repay your loans while more recent graduates might be off the hook. It's obviously just not possible to go back and reimburse all the former students who have already paid off their loans; a loan forgiveness program would have to start with people who are still in debt. Or, as you sort of suggested, maybe a better plan is to make tuition less expensive/free for those who currently couldn't afford it without taking on a large debt load.

Either way, this proposed policy was not designed to punish you or make you feel "not equal" because you paid off your loans before the idea existed or became remotely realistic. That's kind of akin to saying, "Let's NOT release the new coronavirus vaccines because of all those people who died right before they were developed. Their lives were worth saving, too!"

R35 You’re right. And, thats one of the reasons I love this forum. A lot to think about. Thank you.

R36 Oh, and all you other jealous cunts? Maybe you just go fuck yourselves.

R36, you're welcome and let me commend you for being the rare DLer who is open to considering others' opinions.

R20 What did you study?

Why not force the schools who charged hundreds of thousands for degrees with no career prospects?

This is going to be an all out class war or race war!

College is supposed to teach you to thnk-- not be Voc-Ed. But speaking of, student loan debt rose 16% under drumpf and devoss. A lot off this is off the backs of people struggling to acquire vocational skills necessary to land a job in an unfavourable job market. Retraining will continue to be necessary as long as corporations -- beneficiaries of tax breaks -- continue to move jobs overseas and pay un-livable wages.

"Dartmouth drama students (most on scholarship) did nothing useful and drove up tuition I had to pay."

How did they drive up tuition? I don't get the hostility towards theater majors given how pop culture obsessed this board is. Most of us couldn't go a week without watch a show, movie, or play. I say the same thing to conservatives who bitch about "evil liberal Hollywood" - those people sit around all day watch movies and shows. If you hate Hollywood so much, don't spend $$$ on pop culture

They should reimburse my screenwriting degree since the only people getting hired are exotics.

Reverse racism is thriving in LA. Like beyond.

This subject really strikes the nerves.

Colleges and universities should be held responsible for their fraudulent claims about what their degrees are worth and forced to give refunds. Maybe it would inspire them to start reducing tuition.

A big problem is the bloated, overpaid administrations of many colleges and universities. That is a huge driver of the cost of higher education. These institutions have no contact with economic reality. They should have to shoulder much of the cost of student debt debt forgiveness.

I had a fuckbuddy in college who received student loans for medical school. However, since he was above working part time, he would apply for more money than he needed for tuition and books. By OP's logic, his loans should be forgiven because he pursued a STEM degree. Completely disregard the fact he used tens of thousands in loans on rent, clothes, and entertainment.

People who struggled and managed to pay off their student loans...give them some kind of tax break?

r49, they got a break by living in an era when college was less expensive

[quote] the art history majors you made fun of sometimes go on to careers in museums or galleries

Or co-hosting The View!

Haha see what happens when you privatize education? ALL education should be free.

[quote]Forgiving student loans should only be for certain degrees

Yeah, not for Marketing, or Gender Studies!

[quote]I’ll wait.

Keep waiting. Life isn't fair, so stop fucking whining.

Eventually, something will be done about this problem and you cannot stop it.

I think Biden's plan only covers state schools.

A survey found that only one third of Americans support student loan debt forgiveness or reduction. Another left wing idea that will hurt the Democratic party if they go forth. In another study almost 40% of individuals that have these loans are professionals such as lawyers, doctors and dentists. Again, the wealthier class benefiting from a blanket debt reduction.

R56, the truly wealthy have parents who can pay for their college. You know, like Trump and his kids.

I wonder why the right is against this, but in favor of tax cuts for billionaires?

What a borrower majored in is not important to me. What I care about is that loan forgiveness will help our economy overall. People will take the money they once spent paying off loans to instead spend it on consumer goods, entertainment, etc. It's a good thing for everyone down the line.

R29 I payed off $55,000 in student loan. I am happy that people paying off loans now may have their loans forgiven. I do not wish the stress of paying off such a huge amount of money on anyone.

Do they want taxpayers to pay back the schools? Someone will have to pay.

We need to go back to how things were in the 80s. Kids from my school only went to schools they could afford. Nobody had loans.

Then nobody would be going to college, R59. It’s way too expensive.

R59, college was less expensive in the 80s. And you're wrong that no one took out loans in the 80s.

Studies show that college grads make more money over time. We want to have it both ways - shame poor people for not "working hard" because they have low paying jobs, but then bitch about them taking out loans if they go to college.

Fuck this. I drove used cars and took no vacations for years to pay off my student debt. Now you’re going to reward people who lived it up while did the right thing?

Just structure it so that one would have to have been paying on their loans for a certain amount of time (ie in repayment) AND be paying at least a certain percentage of their income. Targeting it like this would exclude the perceptual student and the person who just graduated but is about to walk into a $200k/yr job on Wall Street.

Yes it is State schools Biden mentioned. Americans need to realize there will always be better everything for rich people even when poor people are given 'free' healthcare and education. In Europe rich people go to private schools, have private insurance and go to private universities. It just makes it easier to be an average Joe, especially one who works and it therefore above the threshold for welfare and grants but not earning enough to pay for health/education on the free market.

I really dislike resentment voting. I went through some shit because of when I was born, graduating into a recession, changing careers and now having that career under threat due to covid. But I always want better for those coming behind me. I wouldn't want anyone to be burdened by student loans that keep spiraling with crazy interest, I wouldn't want them to be stuck in the rental market unable to pay rent and save a downpayment. I wouldn't want anyone else to lose their mother to lung cancer and if they get better treatment I won't throw a strop because my mother couldn't have it.

There is a way to do this so that those who benefit are people are the lower middle classes who are now in jobs that pay an average salary without benefiting the ultra wealthy, kids who are earning 200K on Wall St, kids who are wasters etc.. And as for the people saying only those who can pay themselves should go, have you seen the cost? State schools would have to come down in price, community colleges free for those whose parents earn less than X amount and of course you have to still have exceptions for exceptional students. Otherwise we get stuck with only the ultra wealthy going to elite schools and walking into the most powerful and influential jobs and that is never a good idea.

Fuck you op.

Yes please

People used to save for college from the time the kid was born. Now they travel, buy new cars, buy stuff in general. The whole thinking has changed.

People still save for college but college is more expensive now

R66, it used to be possible to travel, buy new cars AND send a child to college--as it should be. Now, because real wages have not risen for a generation or two, it's impossible for an average middle class family to save the $100,000+ that it takes to send a child to college. Saving $10,000 here and there will not put a dent in that amount.

Why do so many DLers have the impression that the average person has a bunch of money that they piss away frivolously on purpose rather than saving it for education/retirement/investing in like the good old days. Where do you all live that you see people like this? I've lived in affordable neighborhoods in several countries and I've never seen such people.

[quote]Where do you all live that you see people like this?

Are you kidding? Social media (not this year) but in the past is full of people taking their kids to Europe and on Disney Cruises etc. Suze Orman made an empire calling these people out.

r70, cherry picking social media accounts to make generalizations is pretty silly. And it's not like people didn't travel or take cruises in the past

R70 No I am not kidding. I don't use social media. I have never encountered people who have access to tens of thousands of discretionary income but chose to blow it away rather than be responsible. The people I know who go to Disney either have plenty and will still be able to pay for their kids' college or they saved for years and the 4,000 they pay for Disney wouldn't have covered a week in college anyway so they chose to use the $50 they were able to save every week to have some fun in an otherwise dreary life.

[quote]But my friend who spent 75K on an MFA in Acting and actually got a few jobs and a major movie role but quit because making a movie was "too boring."

So because your friend was successful but decided to fuck it all up, you now hate anyone with an MFA degree and think student loan forgiveness should be for "certain degrees?"

Mind you, that you're saying all this while you're a gossip website which discusses actors and actresses, many of whom have MFAs themselves and are apparently good enough to entertain you but God forbid someone pays any actor's student loans!

[quote]I am happy that people paying off loans now may have their loans forgiven. I do not wish the stress of paying off such a huge amount of money on anyone.

Personally I want everyone that wants to go to college to have the opportunity to go to one. I had so many friends growing up that wished they could have gone.

Perhaps then, since we know college educated people were less likely to vote for Trump, we'd have people with good critical thinking skills out there making decisions wisely that could help us all in the future!

[quote] Perhaps then, since we know college educated people were less likely to vote for Trump, we'd have people with good critical thinking skills out there making decisions wisely that could help us all in the future!

Would be nice but it's obvious from threads here on education and economics that a majority on DL are very invested in keeping wealth and the best education in the hands of an elite few, probably because the system worked well for them. They then are stuck in a bind because they want everyone else to stay in their place and live a joyless life of depression era frugality and shut up but they also hate living in a country full of uneducated morons, homeless people and religious nuts and they especially hate the angry working classes whether they move right and become Trump cultists or move left and want to reform education, healthcare and housing. So we are left with a smug few who are making out like bandits and the rest of us who are told to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps and then they turn on us when we try to by getting loans to go to school. Damned if you do......

R69: Hollywood Hills?Above Fairfax and Hollywood Blvd. On the good side. Not so exotic, gran.

R69 🕵🏻‍♂️👀: 🥑 toast

I am a progressive but I am opposed to forgiveness of student loan debt. Very deserving young people are able to pay for education because they obtain loans -- many government-insured. If loans go away, the poor and working-class will suffer. Make student loan payments tax deductible, but outright forgiveness would be catastrophic.

I'm opposed as well to outright forgiveness. I paid off $200,000 in loans via not buying anything nice for many years and sending them every free penny I had. I even used an inheritance that I could have used to buy a car or take a vacation. Check went straight to pay off the loans. It really isn't about what I did, but more about "You take it out, you pay it back." I will admit I didn't understand it at the time how it worked. They really did give any idiot (me) a loan. There is absolutely zero qualification because they know you can never shake it.

I do agree that they should be capped as to interest before repayment starts and made dischargeable in bankruptcy if someone really needs to go that route.

Not up to you OP and for that the world is grateful.

[quote]Check went straight to pay off the loans.

You’re whole check?

[quote]I even used an inheritance...

Oh I see how you were able to pay 200K. Makes sense. I’m thinking if you used your entire check to pay off your student debt how did you support yourself? Additional income coming from someone/something. Got it.

I wouldn't suggest forgiving the ENTIRE amount borrowed. Separate out the cost of tuition, books, etc. and forgive those amounts. We shouldn't forgive the amount used to buy cars, take vacations, rent summer houses for vacations, clothes, etc.

I still remember the girl who sat next to me in one of my Masters' classes. She openly stated she was borrowing the max that semester so that she could go to Cancun (it was the 90's) and buy a new car. Back then, the max amount you could borrow was $10k per semester. I wonder how much she actually ended up borrowing.

I borrowed ~$23k. I was working full time so I was able to pay something towards my loans as I was attending college. Still took me 18 years to pay off and I only borrowed tuition money! I paid outright for my books.

Why not tie loan forgiveness to Volunteerism. Set up a program where people can do volunteer work at places like the VA or DV shelters and give govt credit to pay off the loan. Why just give it all away? Not fair to people who struggled to pay theirs off already.

I’m confused R26. You went to the best law school in the country and you’re complaining that you didn’t get to go to Harvard Law instead?

[quote]Mind you, that you're saying all this while you're a gossip website which discusses actors and actresses, many of whom have MFAs themselves and are apparently good enough to entertain you but God forbid someone pays any actor's student loans!

Actually most successful actors don't have MFA's anymore. In Meryl and Sigourney's day they did. Nowadays by the time you are 25 and have earned an advanced degree you are too old for a career. You need to start as a teen like Leo, J-Law, Natalie Portman, Scarjo......

r84, that's why I think r26 is full of shit.

r85, no, there are still plenty of trained actors....probably more. More people are studying acting in school than ever.

but they are not stars....name one young actor with an MFA and a superstar career.

I know Adam Driver went to Juilliard. So did Jessica Chastain.

for undergraduate work r89

Hardly any actors in the past had M.F.A degrees, or master's degrees in anything, so what's your point? Meryl is the exception

This thread proves once again how out of touch DL is as a whole and how our biggest problem in this country is not race, ethnicity, immigration status..it is income inequality. Going to Yale law school and still not satisfied. Earning enough to pay off 200K in debt and then getting a inheritance on top of that and still complaining. Earning 6 figures straight out of school and still wound up that someone somewhere is getting one over on you.

Reminds me of my Tory uncle who had a stunning house in the countryside on 3 acres, his office built on the grounds by a stream was bigger than the average house, he had another 2 houses that he let out and a winter home in Florida and yet he lost sleep fuming over the fact that there were people who were living in damp flats and rough 3 bed semis for 'free'. He would practically snort in anger when we drove past the bleak block of council flats near my school because someone was getting to live there for free while he had to pay for his mansion. He had an excellent private health plan and he never stopped moaning that people on the NHS were treated for free.

Boomers: "You HAVE to go to college and get some degree, any degree!"

Also boomers: "We're not helping you out! I paid all MY loans back. You shouldn't have gone to college if you couldn't afford it!"

It will end up being minimal. "Up to" 10k if you are unemployed or make shit money. And if you make more, then requiring a shit ton of documentation that your income to debt ratio is bad - to get no more than 10k.

[quote] And if you make more, then requiring a shit ton of documentation that your income to debt ratio is bad

I know a lot of people who earn 30-50K and have c.50=70K in student loans that they just cannot make a dent in. They would supply urine, blood, DNA, a pap smear and a whole body MRI for 10K so they could finally start paying down the principle. If someone is put off my the hassle of supplying paperwork then they probably don't need the money that much.

[quote]I know a lot of people who earn 30-50K and have c.50=70K in student loans

I know people who make 65K and have 250K in student debt.

The taxpayers should pay me $100,000 + tuition for my master's in gender studies!

The shouldn't pay anyone for a degree in anything.

R98 Europeans disagree.

I'm not European or live in Europe, so I don't care.

This thread is a great example of why America will continue to circle the drain. Do you all realize how astronomically expensive and overpriced college and healthcare are in the United States? Experts have been saying for years the higher ed bubble is going to burst eventually, just like the housing market.

Instead of talking about that, ditzy Americans can only think about how unfair it is that someone else gets their loans forgiven. The elite, who are slowly taking over the world, could give a shit about you "not buying nice things for years" because you paid back your little loans. They are laughing all the way to bank and want you continue having the "crabs in the barrel" syndrome so the generations after you stay poor as well. Meanwhile, the entire US consumer economy that generates jobs and income for you continues to be eaten away because people are in debt to the government.