THEATRE GOSSIP #405: The "Chad Kimball Makes a Cow's Ass of Himself" Edition

Link to previous thread

Thank you OP.

And fuck Chad Kimball.

BAJOUR!

Let's just put a pin in that r3.

Jagged Little Pill is making their Tony voter play with an online concert. Moulin sent out a very expensive coffee table propaganda book. And yes Schumacher acknowledged there is no date for the awards. I'm hoping "Tina" just send Adrianne door to door to sing for the voters. In the heels...

Kimball's right posturing isn't surprising. I am pretty sure he's deeply closeted, I know a guy whom I believe who used to fuck him on the regular

It takes a lot for me to agree with a Patti Murin tweet, but Kimball managed that

[quote]No one said you can’t sing. You can sing. Alone. In your own home. Possibly for the rest of your life, after this tweet.

I bet the cast of Come From Away just can't wait to go back to work with the prick.

Scott Nevins (no, me neither) isn't holding back:

[quote]Just saw his tweet. Apparently he blocked me long ago (lol). Anyway, to be able to go from sucking dick on the DL, to praising Jesus and voting for Trump - that is some TONY worthy range right there.

Oh wow DL is back, thanks to the talking cow

Has anyone had the courage to show this to Wayman?

Man, they are eviscerating him. I'm kind of loving it, but I also wonder if having COVID didn't scramble his brains.

I'm amazed Wayman still has his loyalty to twinks when they grow out of twinkdomhood. Holding on to that dream, I guess.

That Chad provoked Judy Kuhn of all people, the gentlest kindest performer on Broadway, to say she hopes she will never be in a rehearsal room with him is really saying something.

Julia Murney, OTOH....

Who is Scott Nevins?

When Aladdin returns, should they cut the song, "Proud Of Your Boy?" That's the song that gave the Proud Boys their name.

R15. No, it’s a perfectly sweet song. Why let those assholes ruin it for the rest of us.

Is his career over? Chad’s I mean. This will end in tears, his. Theaterland of all places.

[quote]Is his career over? Chad’s I mean. This will end in tears, his. Theaterland of all places.

Nah, there's always a place for Christian singers at conventions. Kristin Chenoweth did it for several years before she said she loved the gays and the Christian women ended her contract. He'll team up with Kirk Cameron and tour the country.

Or maybe he’ll just end up in that dump in Branson, Missouri.

[quote]He'll team up with Kirk Cameron and tour the country.

Which will provide them both with endless down-low cocksucking opportunities.

No-one's going to want to share a cramped dressing room with him, for sure.

I'm quite surprised at the fact that 6 of the original cast are (were) still doing Come From Away.

r14 he looks hot. Did Chad suck his dick?

Bummer, I like Chad as a performer. I found his choices in Memphis brave and very interesting. But, he spoke his truth, and now his career will be destroyed.

Why did he feel the need to proclaim this? And whose dick was Scott Nevins talking about?

Scott Nevins

Butterface

Scott Nevins is a failed cabaret singer.

Nevins looks superb in a jockstrap.

Not sure why he's ranting about the Governor of Washington shutting shit down to slow down the recent upswing in Covid cases. Does Chad Kimball live in Washington State?

He's from Washington State and goes back there often. He probably is there with his family during the shutdown.

[quote]He's from Washington State and goes back there often.

Apparently to spray saliva on as many of his fellow citizens as humanly possible.

Anyone else watch "Fiddler: A Miracle of Miracles" on PBS last weekend? It was a nice look at the creation and life of the show. I don't think I learned anything I didn't already know except that Fiddler is very popular in Japan and that, until the pandemic, it was being performed *every day* somewhere in the world. (Not sure why Lin-Manuel was given so much camera time, but there you go.)

R32 I found it uninvolving. And so strange the Yiddish production was not included.

The actor playing Tevye in the Yiddish production was one of the talking heads, but I don't believe they showed any (or much) of the show.

Oh wow, seems so strange not to include footage...another opportunity missed in the film.

I think the film (production-wise at least) was almost complete before the Yiddish Fiddler really took off

R36 They should have waited, I found it a huge omission, and such a 'full circle' moment for the show.

Guy who worked with Chad, what made him so hard. When I first saw Memphis, I thought he had made the choice to play the character as mentally slow.

R37- Addict. And all the inherent problems that go along with that issue.

Date for Tony Awards remains uncertain:

The main thing I absolutely detested about Memphis was Chad Kimball's character. There was little making him sympathetic, or even interesting.

Why do these religious people feel they have to worship at an actual church?

Can't you pray and sing at home?

isn't God listening there?

SO he doesn't care if people die around him?

So Christian

It was never a world beater, but Memphis improved tenfold when Adam Pascal took over.

God prefers His own digs, r41. Have you seen his homes,...tasteful friends?

Every single time I read this title I think "Clara Kimball Young".

I get the impression Chad may be a little "out there," hence these ridiculous comments.

Pausing from Chad for a moment, Aurora posted some long clips of the original London [italic]Sweeney Todd,[/italic] and it looks wonderfully good to me. Less broad but more Greek tragedy, perhaps. Denis Quilley seems astounding. And seeing new players on that original production reminds me how remarkable that staging and concept were. No one's version has come close-and it's amazing to think of creating that from scratch.

[quote][R32] I found it uninvolving. And so strange the Yiddish production was not included.

What kind of theatre documentary overlooks Joel Grey for LMM?

Well, Joel's pretty short.

LMM had absolutely no substantive connection to Fiddler; he incorporated one of the numbers into his wedding reception, as one does. I don't know why the docu makers allowed him to elbow his way in.

What does LMM have to do with "Fiddler"? Nada.

R47 The clips were taken from a documentary about the making of Sweeney in the West End - I've linked to it, but the quality is what you'd expect from something recorded in the early 80s on tape.

You have to wonder if the fact they showed quite so much of the show on the documentary played a role in the lack of success in the West End - for the casual audience, once you've seen the best bits, is there much point buying a ticket for the rest?

I remember Sondheim being upset that Sweeney Todd wasn’t a hit in the West End. He called it his "love letter to London" or something. Yes, the show that practically opens with the lyric, "There’s a hole in the world like a great black pit/And it’s filled with people who are filled with shit" is his love letter to London. If that’s his idea of romance, I guess the dungeon makes sense.

So Lillias White and Andre De Shields are doing a fundraiser for Broadway Advocacy Coalition. They're calling it "Broadway VS." Am I stupid? What is "VS"? What does that mean?

They mean Broadway VS. 125th Street, Rose.

There used to be tons of Chad Kimball gossip here, IIRC. All about him sucking dick after inhaling mountains of blow. At one point it seemed like he was out? Or at least not denying that he was gay? Wonder what happened to change that. When did he become born-again?

I never miss a Liv Ullmann musical

Well, the poster was nice.

I like it, r58, but it shrieks OLD-FASHIONED!!

It's supposed to be old-fashioned. What were they supposed to do, go out for some disco dancing?

Perhaps a disco Norwegian folk dance mash-up. My point being that in 1979 people weren't flocking to *old fashioned*.

[quote]My point being that in 1979 people weren't flocking to *old fashioned*.

Then explain the success of [italic]Annie[/italic].

I'm American and I actually saw the West End Sweeney on my very first visit to London in 1980. I remember being confused about the ticketing because I'd never run across the term "stalls" -- I thought maybe it meant that it was standing room, but the kindly clerk explained to me that it was their version of "orchestra."

Anyway, I thought it was cool seeing "Sweeney" in the city where it took place, albeit many years earlier. On my next trip to London--which was not until 2016--I saw an American show. ("Show Boat.") And I knew what the stalls were this time.

Poor Kristin Vigard got demoted from lead to understudy in Annie and from featured daughter to a child Charnin added to the family to avoid letting her go because he felt they needed an older actress in the role in Mama.

R64 but then she got a featured role in 70s HAIR revival and a great role on a soap.

Ullmann's recollections of IRM are hilarious. She said that Martin Charnin did nothing but audition orphans for Annie during the show. When she took her curtain call, some guy came into the theatre and booed her and she thought he was paid by Charnin. She did a commercial for the show to try to soften her somber Bergman image. She said something like her best friend fell in love to Richard Rogers and now she's performing his songs. That statement came out of her telling a writer that a guy tried to touch her friend's tits with "Blue Moon" playing.

I knew you'd bring that up, r62. There are always exceptions. Annie was a far better crafted musical than Mama. Also it was a fresh plot (albeit with a vintage character) and not adapted from a 33 year old play that was bound to show some creaks.

[quote]Poor Kristin Vigard got demoted from lead to understudy in Annie and from featured daughter to a child Charnin added to the family to avoid letting her go because he felt they needed an older actress in the role in Mama.

But she had a starring role in the documentary they made about Annie. Miss Andrea McArdle refused to appear in that documentary. She should have spilled her guts. It probably would have given her sad career a boost.

Christ, they’re tedious.

I look forward to the role being cast by a German performer who suffered a botched sex change. Anything less would be inauthentic and literal violence.

[quote]by casting a transgender actor in the title role, employing “trans advocates on the [Sydney festival] creative team”, and including “trans advisors and talent” in the Hedwig production.

So in other words "give us jobs".

Wow, they got a whopping 1700 signatures (2/3 of which I'm sure were faked) and the festival is going to fire an actor over that.

[quote] I knew you'd bring that up, [R62]. There are always exceptions. Annie was a far better crafted musical than Mama. Also it was a fresh plot (albeit with a vintage character) and not adapted from a 33 year old play that was bound to show some creaks.

The first [italic]Little Orphan Annie[/italic] comic strips were published in 1924, more than 50 years before it was a Broadway show.

I’m not sure Martin Charnin was the best man for the job, and it is clear Rodgers was as ill here as Oscar Hammerstein was when he wrote the lyrics for [italic]The Sound of Music[/italic]. Charles Strouse had an even bigger post-[italic]Annie/[italic] flop with [italic]A Broadway Musical[/italic] that ran exactly a night, while the public gladly said bye bye to [italic]Bring Back Birdie[/italic] after about a week.

[/italic]Any explanation for why Dick Van Dyke didn’t come back and Chita Rivera did?

R69 This is why identity politics is stupid. At this rate, there will come a time when people can only play exact versions of themselves. To hell with acting!

Identity politics is the only politics there is.

Is anyone planning to watch the Jefferson Mays “A Christmas Carol”?

r72, don't for get CHARLIE AND ALGERNON!

I first saw Kristen Vigard when she played Morgan in the Guiding Light Soap back in the 80's. I would watch religiously with my sister when I got home from high school. It was a good year for Guiding Light as it won the Best Daytime Drama Emmy that year.

Of course the highlight was Morgan's sizzling hot boyfriend Kelly, played by John Wesley Shipp. The rumor was Shipp was living with The Guiding Light's (male) director at the time.

Vigard had a varied acting career but she never broke out.

Do believes in statements like "the transgender community’s “profound sadness and disappointment” over the casting of “a cisgender male as a transgender character” mean that only straight actors can play straight roles? We are taking [italic]acting[/italic] out of the equation (and I understand that there is a problem tossing plaudits at a sighted actor playing blind, rather than hiring a blind actor). But if only a gay actor can play a gay role, does it not by extension mean only straight actors can play straight roles?

It's not a two-way street.

Black actors can be cast in The Cherry Orchard but white actors cannot be cast in A Raison in the Sun.

and meanwhile the fired Aussie is hot

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Last one I promise but really!

[quote]don't for get CHARLIE AND ALGERNON!

Which, when it came to Broadway, took a role away from an intellectually disabled actor! (At least in the West End, they cast Michael Crawford, who, judging from his performance in Hello Dolly, clearly qualified.)

Alot of this "gay can only play gay" is because minority actors (gay, trans, people of color) don't get traditional acting roles at all.

When we become a society where everyone gets a shot based on acting ability, then anyone will be able to play anyone

R73, maybe it was because he had become a star and Chita was largely unknown outside NYC....

Nice pic R83!

[quote] Alot of this "gay can only play gay" is because minority actors (gay, trans, people of color) don't get traditional acting roles at all.

but r85 a huge % of actors and performers (relative to general population) have always been gay, playing straight roles. They would lose more jobs than they gain. I understand there's something blackface-like about straights playing gays, but it's difficult to negotiate the right answer.

If gays only play gays, who will the awarding academies give Oscars, Tonys, and Emmys to???

Topol was HOT!

[quote]Hugh Sheridan: ‘No-one ever sticks up for people who don’t pick a label.’

Because the "labels are for clothing" people are tedious. Straight, gay or bisexual. It's not that complicated.

"Fresh plot, albeit with a vintage character", r72.

But Hedwig isn't a tranny. Are these people stupid?

I'm going to go out on a limb r93 and assume that is a rhetorical question.

[Quote] Yes, I've worked with him. Yes, he's a fucking nightmare.

Spill!

Remember when there was talk of a documentary featuring Broadway men who were religious? I can't remember if it was explicitly stated that is was about "pray away the gay." There was talk that Bud Frump from the last H2$ revival was involved.

*that it

[quote]Kimball's right posturing isn't surprising. I am pretty sure he's deeply closeted,

Also, as mentioned by other posters above, he has had issues with mental/emotional instability and/or substance abuse at least as far back as MEMPHIS.

[quote]Has anyone had the courage to show this to Wayman?

Ha! Few men have the courage -- or the desperation, or the poor taste -- to show ANYTHING to Wayman :-)

[quote]I look forward to the role being cast by a German performer who suffered a botched sex change. Anything less would be inauthentic and literal violence.

R69, hilarious that your post about the ridiculous HEDWIG controversy happened to end up being #69 :-) I wonder how this Daya Czepanski creature would fit into a 69 scenario? On a related note, since this person identifies as transgender, would it be appropriate for someone to tell her to go f$(ck herself? Oh, I'm sorry -- to tell THEM to go f$(ck THEMselves?

[quote]But Hedwig isn't a tranny. Are these people stupid?

Some of them may very well be stupid, or brainwashed, but the main point is that ALL of them have their agenda, which they're going to try to push through regardless of the facts -- the most significant fact in this case being that THE PERSON WHO CREATED THE CHARACTER AND ORIGINALLY PLAYED IT HIMSELF has said that he himself has never considered Hedwig to be trans. How telling that this SJW's are insisting that a character of a gay man who had a BOTCHED sex-change operation for complex political/societal reasons, NOT because he wanted to, should be played by an actual trans person. Exactly what point is that supposed to make, what message it is supposed to send?

R90 Patti LuPone sure didn't think so! Read her autobiography about Topol.

Hedwig was a gay man forced to have the operation by his Mother and lover. Not rocket science.

[quote] Remember when there was talk of a documentary featuring Broadway men who were religious? I can't remember if it was explicitly stated that is was about "pray away the gay." There was talk that Bud Frump from the last H2$ revival was involved. —No, not Michael Urie.

"Gay No More?" from Page Six in 2007....

Patti is so generous to make her autobiography about Topol. But she's steeped in the ensemble via Julliard, of course.

I think that might beit, r101. Thanks.

Is anyone here old enough to remember a movement called Aesthetic Realism, founded by a man named Eli Siegel, which, among other things, purported to turn gay men straight? I recall seeing a group of converts, who were all also professional actors, on an old David Susskind talk show in the 1970s (maybe even late 60s?) extolling the virtues and authenticity of the movement. One of the men was an actor I eventually worked with named Ted van Griesthuysen who became a local resident actor in Washington, DC. Married, clearly gay and a lovely man. Whatever works, I guess.

[Quote] Married, clearly gay and a lovely man. Whatever works, I guess.

You left out the cruising for dick at rest stops, woods etc. part.

William Atherton was another actor who was involved with Aesthetic Realism.

[quote]William Atherton was another actor who was involved with Aesthetic Realism.

A sad case. Pathetic.

Speaking of queens in denial, let's not forget Anthony Perkins extolling the wonders of "How to Be Your Own Best Friend."

Was that while Grover Dale lived downstairs?

Uh-oh....Into the Woods at Encores (when they come back),....

[quote]Into the Woods at Encores

WTF?

I think it's a Chad Kimball ref. He played Milky Loads.

So now Encores is just another place for revivals, same as every commercial producer and nonprofit. I guess they've already been that for years but it's sad.

No, Encores has announced Into the Woods as their next production.

DL fave Bobbi from COMPANY as The Witch?

Be a better fit for her, r115.

If they don’t cast Billy Porter as the Witch, we'll never hear the end of it.

Into the Woods???? Is this somehow a neglected work?

Where's our Buttrio Square, Encores???

Revisited Aida today and now I'm curious about 20-year-old tea. Was Disney disappointed by it? Was it a case where anything after The Lion King just wasn't gonna be that impressive?

They should do Destry with Emily Skinner.

[quote]In making the announcement, the Encores! team outlined an expansion of the Tony Award-winning series to encompass not only “hidden gems from the Broadway canon,” but productions “where artists reclaim work through their own personal lens, and celebrations that look at the ways classic musicals connect us.” Into the Woods, they said, will be the first production under the third tenet.

The personal lens one sounds like it's going to be beyond tedious.

[quote] Revisited Aida today and now I'm curious about 20-year-old tea. Was Disney disappointed by it? Was it a case where anything after The Lion King just wasn't gonna be that impressive?

The reviews trashed it, but it ran on the Disney name for a while.

[quote]In making the announcement, the Encores! team outlined an expansion of the Tony Award-winning series to encompass not only “hidden gems from the Broadway canon,” but productions “where artists reclaim work through their own personal lens, and celebrations that look at the ways classic musicals connect us.” Into the Woods, they said, will be the first production under the third tenet.

Well, as a friend of mine has said, Encores! had a really good run before the series began to be gradually destroyed by several factors, but mainly by inept leadership.

Disney's AIDA had several strikes against its chances for being a great musical. First of all, I think it would have been very difficult for even the most talented people in the world to successfully adapt that story for the modern musical theater. Also, the choice of director was odd. For that matter, so were the choices for composer and lyricist. And, maybe the biggest liability of all, the book was co-written by three people -- always a bad sign -- and one of them was David Henry Hwang, about whose talent level no comment is necessary.

r188 read the article. They're added to their "mission" to include iconic musicals. In other words, no mission at all.

sorry, meant r118

I don't think it's necessarily an inappropriate choice, given the times we're going through.

AIDA coasted on the Disney name, and the three leads (Pascal, Headley, Scott) had great chemistry. They sounded amazing together. But the individual elements--the score, book, overall tone of the show--didn't gel and at worst was outright weird. Not the good kind of weird. I felt awful for John Hickok, who had to sell one of the corniest songs I've ever heard.

[quote]Disney's AIDA had several strikes against its chances for being a great musical.

Having a boring score written by Elton John with no great songs but one OK one "My Strongest Suit" that is wildly out of place in the show was no help.

Into the Woods? Really? If you want to catch a production, there are thousands of productions every year at schools and regional/community theaters. They're going to need some really exciting casting to pull this off.

With our luck, we'll get Laverne Cox as the Witch.

You'll get Sutton Foster and you'll lump it.

Chad was always willing to drop trou and play bottom once he was drunk. The blow would follow.. Kind of like Matthew B.

[quote]The personal lens one sounds like it's going to be beyond tedious.

A valuable lesson from my long, long, long, long, long life is that the avoidance of someone's "personal lens" is a basic tenet of sanity.

I want to know what Julia Murney had to say about Chad Kimball. I adore her.

A blowjob after a fuck is odd... couldn't you both climax from the fuck?

Blow as in cocaine, genius @ R135.

Did anyone here see Aida in its out of town tryout in Atlanta? It was directed by the guy who did Beauty & The Beast and Adam Pascal had yet to be cast. The set was a giant pyramid that supposedly unfolded and reconfigured itself to create all the different scenes. I guess it malfunctioned almost nightly. The designer was eventually fired and Bob Crowley came onboard. I’d love to see how it looked/played.

Oh... I assumed Chad would need the coke or some other substance before he'd grab his ankles... The more you know.

R137 Here's that pyramid and more:

I know Sherie Rene Scott comes in for a lot of flack on here, but she's really great in that video. Gorgeous, too.

Wasn't there talk relatively recently of an Aida revival? I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that Tim Rice and Elton John had made some changes ready for a new production - possibly in the UK, I think.

[quote]The personal lens one sounds like it's going to be beyond tedious.

Speaking of a tedious Lens ...

Hedwig was NEVER a tranny show. That is why its called an ANGRY inch. It is about forced sex change inflicted on a gay man.

Fuck these fucking-piece-of-shit trannies shoving their B.S. into everything.

AIDA in Atlanta was also weighed down by ugly cumbersome costumes by Beauty and the Beasts' Anne Hould-Ward who was fired and also replaced by Bob Crowley. Her career never really recovered.

Julia Murney is a bitter bitch. There's a reason her career never went anywhere.

And yes, I've worked with her.

There was a new Aida tour slated for next year to premiere at Paper Mill - directed by the original Nehebke, with the original design team reworking the show a la the stripped down Phantom and Les Mis concert productions I think.

Weren't there talks 10 or so years ago Disney was considering a film version starring Beyonce and Christina Aguilera? A movie might work better if for no other reason than to prune some of the real clunkers in the score. I don't think anyone would miss "Build Another Pyramid" or "Like Father, Like Son."

Doesn't Murney make a mint from voiceover work? That'll dull ambition, I bet.

AIDA was pleasant enough. It was nothing deep—and every Disney show has to live up to Lion King and AIDA didn’t come close.

On its own, it was entertaining. It seemed to play for a long while

Has anything Disney done since Lion King lived up to it?

That pyramid was stolen from the Met Antony and Cleopatra directed by Zeffirelli

Often referred to as A-Hould-Ward, r143.

Disney on Broadway peaked with the first ten minutes of The Lion King.

The rest of the show, like most of everything else they’ve produced, is dreck.

Also referred to as Anne Hold-Everything, r150.

Was anyone really crying out for a Tarzan stage show?

[quote]Julia Murney is a bitter bitch. There's a reason her career never went anywhere.

Stephanie J. Block stole Julia's career.

The fact is ENCORES was out of gas doing old, old shows and the new Board president kicked Viertel out and insisted that everything be new. They will now do these crazy ass productions of shows that are commonly done everywhere, and they will be destroyed by the critics and the audience. The last thing we need to see is another INTO THE WOODS at Encores. This is a huge mistake, and a few years from now it will be dead. Why do the funders/foundations/tax dollars need to go to a theater to produce INTO THE WOODS? Big mistake.

They just get Jake Gyllenhaal to do GREENWILLOW of something.

"Aida" also previewed in Chicago where Heather Headley and Adam Pascal fell eight feet after their rising tomb broke.

[quote]Was anyone really crying out for a Tarzan stage show?

The score is light years better than "Aida".

I want Chad to bum me.

Elton John's Aida was the second Broadway version of Verdi's opera. My Darlin' Aida opened in 1952, was set in the South of the Civil War and featured music adapted from Verdi's own.

BTW, I had a friend who was peripherally involved with I Remember Mama/Mama. He said that Rodgers was old, tired, sick and written out. The score kept changing during previews and, in the end, over half of the melodies came from Rodgers' extensive trunk. He described it as all very sad.

Stephanie Block, Julia Murney and Carolee Carmello all lack star quality. They’re bores on stage. Bland. Mediocre. There, I said it.

And Joshua Strickland was simply beautiful....

Wasn't Joshua Strickland getting fucked by some power player?

Did NPH hit it and quit?

[quote]Elton John's Aida was the second Broadway version of Verdi's opera. My Darlin' Aida opened in 1952, was set in the South of the Civil War and featured music adapted from Verdi's own.

Meh.

Op-Ed: Chad Kimball and the Larger Problems of Broadway's Pandemic Complacency:

We see you White Milky White in the Encores Into the Woods

[quote]Stephanie Block, Julia Murney and Carolee Carmello all lack star quality. They’re bores on stage. Bland. Mediocre. There, I said it.

You can add Donna Murphy to that list as well. She tried so hard to be interesting in "Wonderful Town" and then Brooke Shields replaced her and demonstrated how an actress could have fun with the role.

Is Chad's wife a lesbian or just very "understanding"?

Donna was great in "Anyone Can Whistle."

Thank you, R168.

Can we add Kelli O’Hara and Sutton Foster to the boring list?

I love Brooke Shields on stage. Her only misfire was Cabaret. She was just wrong on so many levels.

Article at r166 isn’t helpful. If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. It’s a vague screed that is not incorrect but has nothing to offer

Karen Ziemba makes those charisma minus others look like megastars.

I love when people tell other people to innovate!

Tell us more about Brooke in Cabaret!

I’d still like to hear Julia Murney stories. I disagree about her being boring on stage, but vocally she’s unmatched. I’ve always heard really nice things about her.

I worked with Chad before he went to New York. He was sweet, a bit bitchy and stand-offish, but mostly I remember he would never look you in the eye — pretty uncommon in a musical theatre actor.

Didn't she sing "I'm Still Here" at one of her cabarets shows a while back? I was unimpressed, especially with the voice.

Scroll to the third pic: How does Chad managed to look like he invented "gay" when most of his face is covered? It really does shine out of some people.

Wow, it's very telling that Chad's wife barely has any photos of him or the two of them together on her IG account. And when she does, she mostly ignores the fact that he's in the photo.

I also had no idea that she was such a successful working actress. I've never heard of her, but apparently that's due to my lack of knowledge, not her career.

Lastly, is it a rug or did Chad get his hair sewn in? When I worked with him, he was practically bald.

Murney sings DeCarlo.

Was Lynn Kellogg's death mentioned?

[Quote] According to her publicist, the cause of death was COVID-19, the New York Times reported. Her husband, John Simpers, reportedly said she got infected recently at a large theater gathering in Branson, Missouri, at which most attendees were maskless.

[Quote] “She had a non-life-threatening leukemia, so that was the big problem when she got COVID,” Simpers told KTVI Fox 2 in St. Louis. “Coupled with that, leukemia is disastrous.”

[Quote] According to KTVI, later in her career, Kellogg was involved in the Christian music industry in the Ozarks. “She came out here and she enjoyed singing Christian music all the time,” her husband said.

I've seen Carolee Carmello and Donna Murphy on stage and neither of them are "boring". They're both exceptionally talented actresses and both give excellent and compelling performances onstage.

Now, are they good at being "stars"? No, not really but since no one is really promoting them as such, what's the problem?

I agree, R187. I have seen Donna Murphy give several wonderful, memorable performances. And I would consider her a "star" as far as theater goes, but she's not a "celebrity" star, if that makes sense.

Carolee is a different matter, as I feel like she's a character actress who's been pushed a few times into the leading lady/star spotlight, but it's not where she excels. She's incredibly talented, and I've also seen her take over for actors in roles and find something new in the interpretation that really stands out.

I consider both these women far more talented and interesting to watch onstage than, say, Kelli O'Hara or Audra McDonald.

Not mentioned thus far, Mandy Gonzalez. Was her big debut post-Bette in an epic flop too much? You can’t hate on those vocals (or her understanding of camp; in this scene at least). LMM gave her the plum role in Hamilton immediately post-Soo.

Mandy Gonzalez should just be grateful no one is holding Dance of the Vampires against her!

People can hardly hold something against someone who's not even on their radar.

I knew that identity politics had gotten out of hand when a few months ago, I was watching clips on YouTube of the 1962 film version of THE MIRACLE WORKER, and a few people commented that they couldn't enjoy the movie because Helen Keller wasn't portrayed by an actual blind/deaf person. WTF?

No idea what you mean, the deaf/blind thing...

It's kind of funny that trannies want to claim Hedwig yet the whole show is about Hedwig being really bitter about her enforced sex change. I mean, the show is about her "ANGRY INCH". Hedwig doesn't identify as trans; in fact she's not very good at being non-binary since she sings about being half of a whole....she's actually very BINARY. And, mad she lost her dick for no good reason.

And lest we forget, Hedwig “becomes” Tommy Gnosis at the end, with the role played as a cis man (as Hedwig) shorn of the drag and stripped to briefs, performing the song as if they (Hedwig and Tommy) are one whole as a huge star. Hedwig and Tommy as one. But who cares about dramaturgy when we can fight about trans bs? This is not the show. JCM and Stephen Trask are as woke as they come and that isn’t the intention of the piece. It’s not about trans, really, at all.

[quote] I have seen Donna Murphy give several wonderful, memorable performances. And I would consider her a "star" as far as theater goes, but she's not a "celebrity" star, if that makes sense.

At The Broadway Flea Market by the Juniors deck and the Celebrity Autograph table. Two teenage boys just walking by, oblivious to anyone, scanning the celebrity table as they passed and stopped when one zeroes in on Murphy, "Holy shit! Look said one, she's from "Star Trek: Insurrection"! and they were thrilled to see her. True.

Mandy Gonzalez sings the hell out of that song on both bootlegs and brings the house down. She did her job.

The only place Into the Woods is a neglected show is on here, because, you know, FOLLIES.

Thanks for sticking up for Murphy and Carmello. Murphy was brilliant in WONDERFUL TOWN (and please refrain from all the tired crap about her absences). As for Carmello, I never paid much attention to her until the immersive SWEENEY TODD a few years back. Best Lovett I've seen after Lansbury.'s.

I find Donna McKechnie rather charmless. I’ve seen much more exciting Cassie’s than hers.

I've never understood the awe for Audra.

My last Audra was "Frankie and Johnny" and that was one of the worst things I have ever seen. The "Audra can do no wrong" was proven false, fast. Yikes.

Now that LuPone, Peters and Buckley are winding down their stage careers who’s going to replace them? Laura Benanti? Snzzzzzzzzzzzzx

Murphy, Carmello, O’Hara,, McDonald—all undeniably talented AF but with nearly zero onstage personality among them. Ciphers. I’m not asking for schtick but some idiosyncrasy or distinctive interest would be welcome.

I've worked with Murney. I thought she was fine. Kind of quiet around everyone, actually. Once we got into tech she got a bit intense, but it was clear that was part of her process. The few times we went out as a cast she was a lot of fun. Very funny at times.

There was a wonderful actress named Tara O’Brien who was in Victor/Victoria ages ago. Replaced Rachel York and was hilarious. I thought she was going to be big then she disappeared. Shame how many talented people out there never get a break.

There was a wonderful actress named Tara O’Brien who was in Victor/Victoria ages ago. Replaced Rachel York and was hilarious. I thought she was going to be big then she disappeared. Shame how many talented people out there never get a break.

Excuse me, but isn't replacing a Drama Desk nominee in a big Broadway musical the very definition of a break?

Hedwig lost any type of moral high ground when they allowed Ally Sheedy to play the role!

Somehow I never felt that Hedwig was overly concerned with any "moral high ground".

Chad never looked people he worked with directly in the eye because, one of the classic signs of cocaine addiction is averting other people's stares because you're paranoid they'll be able to tell you're doing powder.

It can go deeper than that, r210.

[quote] Wasn't Joshua Strickland getting fucked by some power player?

Strickland was constantly hooking up via the gay apps while appearing on Bway, and Disney told him to stop

I've enjoyed Donna Murphy in so many shows. I never her boring.

I think many of the gals listed above are considered boring is they are lyric sopranos and all their roles are sort of pallid--like Anna in the King and I or Nelly in South Pacific.

Audra, on the other hand, absolutely ripped my heart out in 110 in the Shade. I consider that once of the peaks of my theatre-going life.

I don't believe Misses Lawrence or Martin were pallid in their respective roles, r213.

[quote]Having a boring score written by Elton John with no great songs but one OK one "My Strongest Suit" that is wildly out of place in the show was no help.

Agreed 100 percent.

[quote]Wasn't there talk relatively recently of an Aida revival? I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that Tim Rice and Elton John had made some changes ready for a new production - possibly in the UK, I think.

If there is a revisal (which I highly doubt), I fear that David Henry Hwang will rewrite the book of the show and somehow make it even worse. On another note, thanks for that clip, R139. In Atlanta, Radames was played by the gorgeous Hank Stratton, but I had never before seen footage of him in the show, so thanks again.

[quote]You can add Donna Murphy to that list as well. She tried so hard to be interesting in "Wonderful Town" and then Brooke Shields replaced her and demonstrated how an actress could have fun with the role.

Stick to that opinion if you like, but Donna Murphy got pretty much universal raves for her performance in WONDERFUL TOWN. The problem there was her very frequent absence from the show, reportedly due to vocal problems.

[quote]It's kind of funny that trannies want to claim Hedwig yet the whole show is about Hedwig being really bitter about her enforced sex change.

Exactly. The irony seems to have escaped them, probably because they're too angry to use their brains properly. Assuming they have brains to begin with. I'm not familiar with that Australian actor who won't get to play the role because of this nonsense, but I feel very sorry for him for becoming a victim of mindless SJWs.

[quote]Murphy, Carmello, O’Hara,, McDonald—all undeniably talented AF but with nearly zero onstage personality among them. Ciphers. I’m not asking for schtick but some idiosyncrasy or distinctive interest would be welcome.

So then, is your only definition of "personality" when an actor bends each role to their own personal quirks and mannerisms, like Ethel Merman or Patti LuPone, rather than actually playing each character distinctly, like a Lansbury, Murphy, Carmello, O'Hara, McDonald, or Block?

Ethel didn't bend her roles to fit her, r215, they were fitted *for* her.

The head of Disney’s theatrical division apparently had quite a “thing” for Josh Strickland, especially when Josh slipped on his Tarzan loincloth.

Geez, what was the last show that was fitted for a star? Was it Gwen in Chicago?

[quote]The head of Disney’s theatrical division apparently had quite a “thing” for Josh Strickland, especially when Josh slipped on his Tarzan loincloth.

And even more when he slipped it off.

R217, which Disney theatricals person are you referring to? The one who's still there, or someone who isn't?

The head then and now is Thomas Schumacher.

How's his head r220?

Limp, r222

[quote] How's his head

Unaccountably swelled and wearing the world's stupidest glasses.

There was an article on Schumacher in the Wall Street Journal that tried to take him down but it apparently didn't work. It was about sexual harassment and such, but maybe the reason it didn't end his career was that the charges in it didn't sound all that toxic, certainly not compared to the crimes of Weinstein etc.

So sick of this tiresome clown show.

^^ Sorry. Wrong thread. ^^

[quote]Geez, what was the last show that was fitted for a star? Was it Gwen in Chicago?

I think that Andrew Lloyd Webber fits some of his shows for stars. I think Phantom was originally fitted with Colm Wilkinson in mind, but they couldn't get it produced fast enough, so Colm did Les Miserables. Sunset Boulevard was fitted for Patti LuPone.

Lin Manuel Miranda fitted Hamilton for himself.

[quote]So sick of this tiresome clown show.

[quote]^^ Sorry. Wrong thread. ^^

Remarkably, it is appropriate on this and all Datalounge threads.

R25 the blacks are out to take down any prominent white person down, especially a man.

O'Hara has been the only one of those actresses I've never been very impressed with. She's the definition of beige. She's competent and has a lovely voice, but she never comes to life on stage or screen.

Poor Laura Benanti has been gifted with a fun comic personality, but cursed with a soprano singing voice. She could be playing brassy comic roles, but how many of those are written for sopranos? In a few years, she'll probably make for a great Phyllis in Follies. She might do better on film and TV where she doesn't have to sing as much.

Most of the current Broadway crop is boring. They're all talented for sure, but most of them blend into the scenery. I watched a bootleg of that new version of Company and was horrified by Katrina Lenk. Not only could she hardly sing the score, but she was boring. Granted, Bobby/Bobbi has never been the most exciting role, but that's why you cast someone with a big personality so that they can bring something to it. It was painful to watch her share the stage with someone like LuPone who could walk on stage, fart, and it'd still be compelling.

I worry about what'll happen once people like Patti and Bernadette leave us. There aren't many actresses working on Broadway right now who could fill that void.

[quote]Poor Laura Benanti has been gifted with a fun comic personality, but cursed with a soprano singing voice. She could be playing brassy comic roles, but how many of those are written for sopranos? In a few years, she'll probably make for a great Phyllis in Follies. She might do better on film and TV where she doesn't have to sing as much.

There's some truth to what you wrote here, but Laura can also sing just fine in a lower register, sometimes even getting close to belting, as she did in several shows including GYPSY, THE WEDDING SINGER, and SWING!

I've got moxy!

The story I heard about Murphy's Wonderful Town absences was that she had a severe, chronic viral bronchitis which took a very long time to clear up, which those things do. But the producers wouldn't announce it and forbid her from talking about because they were they were afraid it would affect ticket sales if people thought they were likely to see an understudy. She was very upset about it as it made her look unreliable.

Ali, honey, you have a numb cooter. It's the only reason you have a Tony award.

When I saw "Wonderful Town," Murphy was in but Jennifer W. was out. I kind of wanted to see both of them. Sort of like when I saw "Finian's Rainbow" and Kate Baldwin was in and Cheyenne was out. For someone like me who only gets to NY every three or four years (and routinely tries to see eight shows in one week), it's very frustrating. I'm hoping that the current shutdown makes producers rethink the way things are scheduled. Wouldn't we have more chance of seeing the star performers if they cut back to say five shows a week?

I'm trying to remember if I saw Donna in Wonderful Town or if Brooke had taken over. It was one of those productions that leaves zero impression on you while you're watching it. It's not bad, it's just bland.

Oh, I just looked it up on IBDB- Of course it was bland and unmemorable; Kathleen Marshall directed and choreographed it.

Brooke Shields! That's an underrated Broadway actress. She doesn't have the best voice or widest range, but she's always turned out great performances when I've seen her. Of course, I didn't see her in Cabaret. Was she bad in that? It is hard to picture her in that role for some reason.

Is Rob Marshall not terribly bright? I was listening to the TCM clip about Sophia Loren and unless I misheard, the narrator referred to one of her frequent co-stars as Mar-SELL-o Mastroianni. I had to wait until the end to find out that said narrator was Mr. Marshall.

Whatever unfortunate illnesses Donna Murphy had during the run of "Wonderful Town," the situation demonstrated that she was pretty much unable to carry a long run. And she never has since. All her subsequent shows--"The People in the Picture," "LoveMusik," "Hello, Dolly!," "Into the Woods" in the park, Encores! "Follies" and "Anyone Can Whistle"--have been either limited engagements that played just a few months or have been special runs. I would expect that "Wonderful Town" (2003) was her final lead in a long (one year +) run. Of course I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.

I’ve seen Brooke Shields live on stage here in LA twice now, but both times the shows* were terrible, so it was hard to judge her performance. I agree that it’s hard to picture her as Sally Bowles, but I’d love to see her Desireé, or even her Fosca.

*”Leap of Faith” and “The Exorcist”

Brooke would probably be a great, very fun Desiree or even Phyllis in Follies. She wasn't much of an actress as a kid, but to her credit, she must have studied and gotten better over the years. The first time I took notice of her was when she guest starred on Friends and I thought "wow! This woman is really hilarious."

Did anyone see Brooke Shields in Chicago? For someone with a mediocre voice, she's done a lot of musicals! Grease, Cabaret, Wonderful Town, Chicago, The Addams Family

And her career is interesting. Who thought as a child star and model, that she'd grow up to be successful on Broadway? And she was really good in Patty Heaton's show as the trailer trash neighbor.

[quote]She wasn't much of an actress as a kid, but to her credit, she must have studied and gotten better over the years. The first time I took notice of her was when she guest starred on Friends and I thought "wow! This woman is really hilarious."

I agree! When she ditched the mother, she really came into her own. She is a very good comedic actress. Here she is on Patty Heaton's show.

Get Brooke for Phyllis and Kristin for Sally, r242. Wouldn't it be a lovely homage to the Alexis/Dorothy height differential?

Brooke/WT...

[quote]Kristin for Sally

Chenoweth? Oh hell no. We don't want a helium-voiced, chirpy Sally.

When was the last time Brooke did anything on stage (or even in the movies or TV, for that matter). It must be over a decade.

r231, when has there ever been a major production of Company with a Bobby who brought his big personality to the role? And I hope your answer is not Raul Esparza.

Donna does limited runs because her husband passed and she’s raising her now teen daughter on her own. She won’t commit to 8 shows per week for an extended period which is why the recent Dolly gig was perfect for her. That’s admirable. And very un-diva like.

Loved Brooke in Chicago and WT but she was dreadful in Cabaret. She could not handle Maybe This Time at all. Plus the wig and costumes made her look like a draggy dominatrix. Just not the role for her.

[quote]When was the last time Brooke did anything on stage (or even in the movies or TV, for that matter). It must be over a decade.

Brooke has done a lot of guest spots on tv in the last decade. She's appeared several times in "Jane The Virgin" and Patty Heaton's "The Middle". And she was on an episode of the reboot episode of Murphy Brown. Those were all 2018.

Her last Broadway appearance was replacing in The Addams Family in 2010.

I was being facetious, r247.

Dorothy could have been a pony dancer. They were teeny-tiny.

Laura Benanti was hilarious (and probably should have gotten the supporting Tony) for "Women on the Verge". Sherie Renee Scott very miscast as the lead, though she was terrific in her other David Yazbek show, "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels".

I thought Phyllis was in the chorus line and Sally was a specialty singer? Do they ever mention what they did in the follies?

They were both chorus girls, r255 (Mirror number).

Brooke was also very funny in the otherwise execrable Chris O'Donnell film The Bachelor, starring DL fave Renee Zellweger.

Details of that NBC Broadway special - to be hosted by Tina Fey

[quote]The casts of “Ain’t Too Proud – The Life and Times of The Temptations,” “Chicago,” “Jagged Little Pill,” “Diana: The Musical,” “Jersey Boys,” “Mean Girls” and “Rent” will take over the New York City streets in a night of performances. Kelly Clarkson, Brett Eldredge and Patti LaBelle will also perform during the telecast.

Between this and covid it sounds like they're actively trying to scare people away from Broadway.

[quote]The telecast will include special appearances by Annaleigh Ashford, Lance Bass, Kristen Bell, Ron Cephas Jones, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, Peter Gallagher, Josh Groban, Jake Gyllenhaal, Sean Hayes, Nathan Lane, Camryn Manheim, Alanis Morissette, Jerry O’Connell, Leslie Odom Jr., Billy Porter, John Stamos, Aaron Tveit, Blair Underwood, Vanessa Williams, Susan Kelechi Watson and the cast of “Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.”

[quote]“One Night Only: The Best of Broadway” will also give sneak peeks at shows and musicals coming up in 2021.

Forgot the link

It's bad enough we're going to have to suffer through more 4th rate, hastily thrown together Broadway numbers with social distancing, but to put Tina Fey in on top of it all? No THANK you!

[quote] Donna does limited runs because her husband passed and she’s raising her now teen daughter on her own. She won’t commit to 8 shows per week for an extended period which is why the recent Dolly gig was perfect for her. That’s admirable. And very un-diva like.

Yes, I've heard this explanation numerous times, but the fact remains that her last run of more than two or three months was 17 years ago. No one would sign her for an extended run and I doubt she'd ever consider doing one again. Even in the two-month run of "LoveMusik," her understudy (Ann Morrison) went on.

It is so disheartening to hear people talking about "what they heard about Donna Murphy" or that "she could not carry a long run."

She had a pretty specific medical problem that the producers asked her not to disclose. Not something that would affect her ability to do long runs in the future.

I was going to post exactly what you did, r460. She also takes care of her late husband's two daughters, her stepdaughters.

They should have gotten Fran Drescher to replace Donna Murphy in "Wonderful Town"; the role was written for Rosalind Russell who had a limited range. I saw Lauren Bacall do it at Westbury, and she was very good indeed. Drescher would have been box-office had she been available.

and yes, they do have Jews in Ohio. (I think they do).

Murphy's problems had nothing to do with the length of the run for Wonderful Town. The hemorrhage happened during previews.

She should have immediately withdrawn.

What I heard about Murphy turns out to be what happened.

[quote] It's bad enough we're going to have to suffer through more 4th rate, hastily thrown together Broadway numbers with social distancing, but to put Tina Fey in on top of it all? No THANK you!

You sound like a total bore.

And you sound like someone who's masturbated furiously to Mean Girls several times.

Why are they having numbers from "Rent"? That's so passe and it's not even among recently closed (because of covid) shows.

saw here in Cabaret and thought she was one of the best Sally's I saw (worked on the production and saw a lot of them)...she played it similarly to how Jane Horricks played in the original production. Dumb as a fox. and did it again in Chicago - a really underrated musical performer.

I do not think Donna Murphy, TIna Fey, or Rent ever played Sally Bowles.

R261. She missed one performance of LoveMusik when her husband was rushed to the hospital. Otherwise her attendance record since WT has been spotless.

The thought of Fran Drescher in WONDERFUL TOWN gives me hives.

Gives me an earache.

I don't understand why posters on these theater threads are always trying to push Fran Drescher for roles in musicals. ("Fran Drescher as Dolly!") I can barely tolerate her speaking voice. I can't imagine listening to her trying to croak out a song.

How can you call Kelli O'Hara beige when Laura Osnes invented the color? O'Hara is at least alive behind the eyes.

Agree that Murney is super talented. I've always thought it was the fact that she is not conventionally beautiful that's kept her from more starring roles, but that doesn't hold up when you consider Sutton Foster's success. I almost didn't recognize Murney in her recent Zoom appearances... She looks more gaunt than usual and appears to have had some work done.

Loosely related to Tina Fey, but I feel like Carol Kane would be a terrific Fraulein Schneider.

Brooke Shields revitalized the box office at Wonderful Town and was very good in the part. She did a lot of physical comedy, sang well and seemed to be having a great time. The cast was very appreciative of her because the show was about to close, but she agreed to extend her run so everybody could remain employed a couple more months. Audience reaction was so positive that the producers brought the NYT to re-review the show, and she got great reviews.

God, the message boards were insufferable during the Donna Murphy/Wonderful Town debacle. It cast a bit of a shadow over Brooke's performance. Theatre queens couldn't bear to admit that a TV star was giving a better performance than their beloved stage actress.

Brooke started off as a movie star in "Pretty Baby" and "The Blue Lagoon".

R280, ATC at least loved Brooke and thought Murphy was a malingerer.

And just announced: Kathleen Marshall to direct a "reimagined" version of Anything Goes starring Megan Mullaly. Yeccch.

With 62-year-old Megan Mullally as Reno Sweeney? Good lord.

I know Megan's career can use some serious TLC after her flameout at the end of WILL & GRACE. I'd even welcome a chance to see her perform live again in a musical. But this is the worst, dumbest, most pointless idea since the Britney Spears bio-musical.

[quote]And just announced: Kathleen Marshall to direct a "reimagined" version of Anything Goes starring Megan Mullaly. Yeccch.

Oh, Christ! I thought you were kidding. It's true. Mullally is 62 years old! Are they going to have her do the title number using a wheelchair?

Any more details on how the consistently mediocre Kathleen Marshall will "re-imagine" ANYTHING GOES? The link above doesn't address that. Of all the classic musicals that doesn't need "brave new concepts..."

every cast she's ever joined has loved Brooke. Lovely lovely human being. Kind, generous, no attitude and a company player

[quote] every cast she's ever joined has loved Brooke. Lovely lovely human being. Kind, generous, no attitude and a company player

And yet she was the only Roxie in the Broadway revival of "Chicago" to take a solo bow at the curtain call rather than taking the traditional bow that Roxie and Velma are supposed to share.

Since when do we rate Broadway divas on their kindness?

Judge for yourself

More Brooke in Wonderful Town (and even though the vocals are pre-recorded, she's still good).

At the final WT curtain call Brooke pulled Linda Mugelston center stage and told the audience how she filled in as Ruth and saved the show on numerous occasions. Classy.

I saw Ms. Brooke in "Addams Family" and she was quite good. Yes, she's very good indeed in those "Wonderful Town" clips. I liked her in her "Suddenly Susan" tv show years ago, too. She got better and better and worked on her craft. She's very funny, too. Brava!

People, this is why we need new musicals -- I like Megan Mullally, but good lord, why is she playing Reno Sweeney?

And she was way taller than papi Raul in Leap of Faith in LA and they kept having him sit and stand on higher things not to look ridiculous, didn’t help

What old broad didn't play Reno Sweeney? If Chita could do in the late 1990s, so can Mulally. And don't tell me that Sutton Foster has set some kind of precedent that Reno must be a dancer.

Gertie could be quite kind, r289. I have this lovely handwritten note from her.

I'm guessing that Megan will emulate Ethel's jazzy moves...

[quote]I like Megan Mullally, but good lord, why is she playing Reno Sweeney?

She's not. The show is being reimagined. Megan is playing the ship.

Annie Miller played Reno Sweeney at Paper Mill when she was around 106.

If Meghan can play Reno at 62, then I want to see Chip Zien do How To Succeed in Business.

[Quote] Megan is playing the ship.

Not once I start a petition!

I bet Robert Morse played it long after he "should" have.

Will Howard return as Billy Flynn?

[quote]They should have gotten Fran Drescher to replace Donna Murphy in "Wonderful Town"; the role was written for Rosalind Russell who had a limited range.

My understanding is that Fran can't sing AT ALL, otherwise we probably would have seen her in more musicals. Yes, she did CAMELOT and CINDERELLA but I believe she only had to do a little bit of talking to music, rather than actually singing, in those shows. No way she could ever have sung the WONDERFUL TOWN songs. Also, it wouldn't make any sense for that character to have a thick New York accent.

I would like to have heard Susan Johnson as Ruth. Did she ever sing the role?

R304 Billy Crocker

Completely off-topic, but how can we convince Clarke Thorell to do an OnlyFans?

Oooopf, I saw Chita do Anything Goes at Papermill, my one and only time out there. I loved the show when I saw it with LuPone (it was one of the very first shows I saw on Broadway as a teen) and thought it would be interesting with Chita.

What a dog of a production. Just dreadful. And I have a memory of Papermill being this awful barn of a theater. We were in the orchestra on the aisle but I felt like we were miles from the stage.

Why does Chita's Billy sound like he's chastising HER when he "remembers" that they had a date arranged? This is an example of why musical theatre actors get a bad rep for acting.

Chita was 67 when she did Anything Goes and sounded every minute of it. Her Billy, George Dvorsky, was 41 and looked (from the audience) a decade younger.

He looked a young Trump.

Wrong production r304 and r307. Howard was in the Zaks. Colin I married a lunatic Donnell did Marshall’s.

And r308 yes yes yes

[quote]Why does Chita's Billy sound like he's chastising HER when he "remembers" that they had a date arranged?

No, he's clearly angry with himself for forgetting. And why did you put "remembers" in quotes? Clearly, he does remember, when he sees her, that they had a date, which had slipped his mind

I thought the Paper Mill ANYTHING GOES was a fine production, but yes, I think everyone agrees that the theater is a barn. True, that show was really the first time I noticed a pretty significant deterioration in Chita's voice due to age, but she was still great in the part.

Well, I guess I missed this: Eve Ensler has changed her name to "V." According to some sources, she is "also known as V," but other sources say "V, formerly Eve Ensler" or "V, formerly known as Eve Ensler."

So, is she planning to get to a point where she identifies herself only as "V," with no further explanation? Or will all references to her have to be "V, formerly Eve Ensler?" If the latter, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?

Final question: Is she out of her f#$ing mind?

I also saw Brooke in Chicago and found her a very charming and funny Roxie. I can't remember if she did the bit where she takes the conductor's baton during the monologue. Her Velma was Luba Mason and the pair matched well in stature and dancing the "Hot Honey Rag." Some Velmas sometimes seem to either overshadow or underplay the choreography when partnering with a less adept Roxie; Brooke and Luba were both more movers than full-out dancers and gelled well together. If it was another time, Shields would do well in the summerstock/ regional circuit. I'd think she'd be great in an Encores production of Woman of the Year (not that Encores would ever do a show like that again) and would be interested in her doing the Stritch parts in Sail Away or Pal Joey. Hell, if Stockard can sing "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" in the basement, maybe she could play Vera. Speaking of that lousy revival of Pal Joey, I wish Martha Plimpton would do more musicals. Maybe Martha and Brooke could Tru West a production Mame and switch off playing Mame and Vera nightly.

Chita has never been a good singer--just sort of serviceable

R317's nickname is "Tin Ears."

More on that [italic]Hedwig[/italic] nonsense. Creators say role is drag not trans

and another pic of the actor they fired because I like looking at his Aussie self

Brooke isn't a trained actress--she does everything by gut--so you can see her acting.

Murphy played the role wacky but subtle; Brooke always has a tough time making "Brooke" disappear

r316, don't know if you're aware of it but Martha Plimpton was actually in serious contention to play Nellie Forbush in the LCT revival of South Pacific.

Wiser minds prevailed.

Good point, r321. And Brooke is always a bit earthbound "American" so roles discussed above like Desiree might be tough. She has little artifice or elegance, even as a former model. I think that's what made Roxie and Ruth good choices, and Morticia less so, because there should have been an otherworldly layer that Brooke didn't have. Say what you will, but Bebe has that.

[quote]And Brooke is always a bit earthbound "American" so roles discussed above like Desiree might be tough.

If Bernadette from Queens can play Desiree (and fishwife Stritch her mother) then Brooke would have no problem with Desiree.

Did you see Bernadette in "Sunday In The Park"? Geez, it was like a junior high school student trying to play Shakespeare. The affected speech, the far off gaze, the royal command performance. Dot was a working class girl, not Anastasia.

I hear you but just disagree, r324. Bernadette is just a better actress than Brooke, so the emotion can win. She can make you [italic]feel[/italic], and Brooke can't, and that's why in performance she can overcome where she's literally [italic]from[/italic]. To your point, Stritch couldn't; hers was the most "American" Madame ever, just "a broad," always.

I saw Bernadette in A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC, and she did not at all come across as someone from Queens. She played Desiree with a very light British or mid-Atlantic accent, and she was excellent in the role. Stritch, on the other hand, was just Stritch and not remotely believable as Mme. Armfeldt, but the performance was still enjoyable if you took it as a personal appearance by Elaine Stritch and likely to be her last performance on Broadway, which turned out to be the case.

Agree 1000%, r326. Bernadette was a wonderful Desiree. Funny and charming and heartbreaking. Stritch? Well, it was certainly gave you something to talk about at dinner after the show.

Stritch in ALNM and Ann Miller in FOLLIES. You were willing to make allowances, or...you weren't.

[quote]Stritch in ALNM and Ann Miller in FOLLIES. You were willing to make allowances, or...you weren't.

Ann Miller could be believed as the character she was playing. Whether she played the character or played Ann Miller is another story.

Under no circumstances could Stritch be believed as a woman who men wanted to have liaisons with.

Stritch was atrocious in ALNM the night I saw her. Going up on lines, even when being prompted. (Horrible for her fellow actors.) I don't care how much of a camp legend she was to some fans: she should have retired years before she did.

[quote]she should have retired years before she did.

Or just stuck with tv and movies. She was great as Alec Baldwin's mother on 30 Rock.

"Ann Miller could be believed as the character she was playing."

*

You were willing to make allowances, r329...some weren't.

What does it mean exactly to "Go up on lines"?

I have never gotten Bernadette Peters and her kewpiedoll voice.

she was horrendous in Gypsy and just okay in Follies. Her voice has always sounded like it's on its last legs

What's all the hullabaloo about?

Michael Bennett and Donna McKechnie, r334.

I never understood Stritch’s appeal. Can’t sing. Not attractive. Insecure. Ok actress.

R336, she perfected the "I'm a brassy broad" persona.

That said, her one woman Bway show was an absolute revelation and shows what a multi-faceted persona Stritch was

[quote]What does it mean exactly to "Go up on lines"?

To lose your place in the script and forget your lines.

[quote]What does it mean exactly to "Go up on lines"?

NJ Truck Driver: No, not even figs. Raisins. (pause) Line!

Offstage voice: "Ah, liaisons."

NJ Truck Driver: (brusquely) "Ah, liaisons."

She had to have *something* to be cast as Ethel's U/S.

Elaine Stritch had talent. I've seen her turn in some great performances. But there were times where she was miscast and allowed to run beyond what was acceptable. Search YouTube for her "I'm Still Here" where she screams her way through the song. She performs it to a point where she seems out of control and I would not be surprised if she turned around and beat the hell out of Patti LuPone, who stole Stritch's signature song "Ladies Who Lunch."

Stritch was good when she stayed in her lane, but as older actresses retired or died off, the industry tried to make her the first lady of theater and she never deserved that title.

[quote] "The character does go on a gender journey, but it is sparked by a coerced, non-consensual surgery. A young fem gay boy is bullied into a gender assignment by his government in order to preserve the sacred binarchy," the statement said.

Sounds more timely than ever.

Um, what Elaine Stritch role was that, R342?

That was from the Hedwig article posted above

Martha Plimpton has proven herself to be a great comic talent with a pretty good singing voice. I'd love to see her get bigger roles on Broadway. I'm not sure if she's a big enough name these days. A Mame or Gypsy with her would have been great.

As others have said, women like Brooke and Martha would have been flourishing in the summer stock days.

[quote]Um, what Elaine Stritch role was that

It was fucking ELAINE fucking STRITCH. Every goddamn role was a gender journey.

Stritch was perfect for her role in 30 Rock. Any role like that made sense for her

Stritch could do brassy dame. That was about it. When she was well cast and could still remember her lines, there was no one better.

This song has everything. Synth drums, banal lyrics, cliched liberalism, lesbians, Meryl Streep rapping...

I saw Stritch in A Delicate Balance. Audience loved her. Every line got a reaction. I thought she was awful. What do I know?

R350, her fellow actors didn't love her.

[quote]Elaine Stritch had talent. I've seen her turn in some great performances. But there were times where she was miscast and allowed to run beyond what was acceptable. Search YouTube for her "I'm Still Here" where she screams her way through the song. She performs it to a point where she seems out of control and I would not be surprised if she turned around and beat the hell out of Patti LuPone, who stole Stritch's signature song "Ladies Who Lunch."

Rumor has it that Stritch was originally supposed to do "I'm Still Here" in the 1985 NY Philharmonic concert of FOLLIES, but I assume it was eventually realized that she simply could not handle the song vocally, especially not the end of it. So she wound up singing "Broadway Baby" instead, and Carol Burnett sang "I'm Still Here."

[quote]Stritch was good when she stayed in her lane, but as older actresses retired or died off, the industry tried to make her the first lady of theater and she never deserved that title.

I wouldn't say the industry tried to make her the first lady of theater, I think she continued to work and remained popular and kept getting press partly because, almost until the end, she was great when she was in her wheelhouse (and when she could still remember her lines), but also because she was such a character and was always newsworthy.

R350, I thought she and the entire production was terrible

R322, I did not know that Plimpton was a serious contender for South Pacific. I cannot see her as a Nellie Forbush, but she'd probably been a more interesting Mrs. Anna than Kelli O'Hara was in the recent Lincoln Center production (and I love Kelli's performance in South Pacific). Wish I'd gone back to see Marin Mazzie in the role. Has a bootleg of that ever drifted onto youtube?

I was dragged to Brooke in Wonderful Town and I thought it would be a disaster. To my great surprise, I found her charming, smart and warm, and it turned out to be one of my favorite theatre memories. I wish she would do more.

Any compare/contrast with Brooke vs Bebe in ADDAMS FAMILY? Or was the show so hopeless that the choice of Morticia didn't matter?

I never saw it, mostly because the word of mouth (I recall) was pretty terrible. But the shows become enormously popular regionally and get licensed to perform all over the planet. Go figure.

R354, yes, O'Hara was amazing in South Pacific--the perfect role for her

This thread's Bernadette-Elaine and Kelli-Sutton-Audra comments have made me realize something-- They're almost exact opposites. Bernadette and Elaine have personality and presence and wattage while Kelli and Audra etc have vastly superior vocal skills-abilities and not much discernible personality at all. Thus, "talent" becomes a tougher criterion to toss around. I for one much prefer the former category, and it's what makes a star I'm excited to see.

Just be thankful they didn't do the Lincoln Center "South Pacific" in London first or we might have had to endure pub singer Samantha Janus Womack Shapiro Gravitte.

Count me as another person on whom Bernadette Peters' charms are lost. I can see why she appeals to straight men - the child woman cutesy thing. I'd sort of expect gay men to be immune to all that. But apparently not. (And Peters is NOT an actress. The gut comment above about Shields absolutely applies to Peters.)

WHET Corey Reynolds? I first noticed him on "The Closer;" he was a regular for all seven seasons, but didn't continue over to "Major Crimes" with the rest of the cast. When I first began watching, I had no idea he was the original Seaweed in the Broadway "Hairspray." Has he ever done any more musicals? I saw him recently on one of those Zoom things with "Hairspray" people and he looks great.

[quote]I never saw it, mostly because the word of mouth (I recall) was pretty terrible. But the shows become enormously popular regionally and get licensed to perform all over the planet. Go figure.

Supposedly, the revised version of THE ADDAMS FAMILY is much better than the original, which was lousy in terms of the writing. I don't know the revised version, but I can't believe it's that much better, seeing as how the same composer-lyricist was involved.....

[quote]I did not know that Plimpton was a serious contender for South Pacific. I cannot see her as a Nellie Forbush.

Really? I think Plimpton might have been better casting as Nellie than O'Hara, in terms of both personality and style of singing voice.

[quote]This thread's Bernadette-Elaine and Kelli-Sutton-Audra comments have made me realize something-- They're almost exact opposites. Bernadette and Elaine have personality and presence and wattage while Kelli and Audra etc have vastly superior vocal skills-abilities and not much discernible personality at all. Thus, "talent" becomes a tougher criterion to toss around. I for one much prefer the former category, and it's what makes a star I'm excited to see.

I hear you, but of course, it also depends largely on the role. Someone with tremendous personality and star presence but limited vocal ability would be preferable as, for example, Ruth in WONDERFUL TOWN, whereas I'd much rather see (and hear) a performer with vastly superior vocal talent and ability in roles such as Bess in PORGY AND BESS or Julie Jordan in CAROUSEL. Of course, there are many roles that require equal amounts of both, so different performers will be more or less successful with certain facets of those roles.

Martha has a pleasant voice, and seems to really "follow" a lyric (a lot of Bway singers do not). She'd be great in a club/cabaret/intimate setting.

But I'm not sure if she's enough of a powerhouse for SOUTH PACIFIC or another big Bway revival.

Mary Martin was not a powerhouse singer, certainly not by the time of "South Pacific."

Agreed, R365. I wouldn't say that SOUTH PACIFIC requires "powerhouse" singing, and anyway, I thought Plimpton did had some powerhouse moments in her one Broadway musical to date, PAL JOEY. I would love to see her in a well-chosen starring role in a musical.

Audra showed personality in Threepenny Opera. She was great, very slutty.

She didn't have Merman's belt, r366, but she had a strong voice. Her Nellie and Peter Pan would attest to that.

[quote]So she wound up singing "Broadway Baby" instead, and Carol Burnett sang "I'm Still Here."

Which also was a huge mistake because Burnett pulled out her shtick when she sang it. I still cringe when I hear her sing, "I've been through Herbert and J. Edgar Hoo-woo-ver." Barbara Cook should have gone over and slapped her silly and said, "You're not singing I Fell In Love With John Foster Dulles." Listen around the 2:25 mark. Sounds like Eunice singing it.

Surely the biggest issue is that when the audience heard the lyric "First you're another sloe eyed vamp," they could see Carol Burnett.

Was there any discussion of bringing the Follies OBC to London in the 1970s?

Mary!

I seem to recall Elaine Stritch saying at some point, maybe around the time of "Follies in Concert," that she wasn't yet "ready" to sing "I'm Still Here," because it's a career retrospective, and she still had plenty of career ahead of her. Of course, she was no more a Carlotta than Carol Burnett was. And she would never be "ready" vocally.

[quote]Surely the biggest issue is that when the audience heard the lyric "First you're another sloe eyed vamp," they could see Carol Burnett.

They wondered what happened to the real actress who was supposed to be playing the role and were appreciative that Carol stepped in on such short notice.

That could be the only explanation because in the show, Carlotta is sleeping with a much younger man and she says that she may drop him and get another younger man next year. Now maybe we're supposed to believe that it's a Judy Garland situation and that these younger men are only with her because they are gay and want to cash in, which I doubt. Carlotta needs to have some hint of sex appeal and you have to believe that she is the only one of the original Follies girls still sexually active on a regular basis.

[quote]I seem to recall Elaine Stritch saying at some point, maybe around the time of "Follies in Concert," that she wasn't yet "ready" to sing "I'm Still Here," because it's a career retrospective, and she still had plenty of career ahead of her. Of course, she was no more a Carlotta than Carol Burnett was. And she would never be "ready" vocally.

Yes, at the time of Follies In Concert, Stritch gave a really nasty interview. She did say the above, but then she went on to say that Burnett was not right for the role either because she (Burnett) hadn't been through anything either. I think Stritch tried to soften it by saying Burnett was too young for the role. If I were Carol Burnett, I would have pushed Stritch into the orchestra pit after that interview.

Wasn't there also some nasty (or maybe just awkward) kerfuffle with Carol Burnett appearing on the same stage as Betty Comden and Adolph Green (as the Rain on the Roof Whitmans)? They apparently still held a lot of hostility for Carol for bailing out on their show Fade Out, Fade In back in the 60s.

Who did Carol replace as Carlotta at the last minute? She couldn't possibly have been a logical first choice for the role. I suppose she could have done Mirror, Mirror well enough.

Burnett wasn't a last minute replacement.

Martha Plimpton as Mama Rose. THAT I’d like to see

[quote]Who did Carol replace as Carlotta at the last minute? She couldn't possibly have been a logical first choice for the role. I suppose she could have done Mirror, Mirror well enough.

The rumor that I heard is that they originally wanted Carol for the "Broadway Baby" number, which she was more suited to her being a character actress. Her management told the producers that Carol wanted "I'm Still Here" or not to bother asking. They needed a huge name to sell the show, so they agreed to it. (Remember this was the 1980s and Follies was still living in its myth status. This concert was huge because the score hadn't had a good production since the fabled original).

But would she flash her panties?

There’s a great bootleg of Marin in King and I. But it’s not on YouTube.

I saw WONDERFUL TOWN twice. First at Encores and then when it opened on Broadway. Both times with Murphy. The first time I felt that Donna was giving a perfectly fine performance, but it lacked that over the top star power that is needed in a vehicle written for an over the top star. The second time I felt that she was giving a technically perfect performance, but still lacked that quality. It was if she had studied just the right Ohio accent for the part, but it still didn't have that star power. Interestingly, I really loved Jennifer Westfeldt in it, much more than I did Laura Benanti, who I just felt was wrong for it. I wish now I had gone back and seen Brooke.

As to Stritch, I was lucky enough to see her in a number of brilliant performances, in COMPANY, A DELICATE BALANCE, her One Woman show, and a reading of SAIL AWAY. She should have had a bigger career in her heyday, but I presume between the drinking and the personality she must have been hell to deal with.

Oh, was she a drinker?

Benanti is a Ruth. Could a soprano Ruth and a bass Eileen work?

Benanti is a Ruth. Could a soprano Ruth and a bass Eileen work?

Hal Prince really like Elaine, but I was pissed that he took away one of Gaylord Ravenal's and Magnolia's loveliest duets "Why Do I Love You" and gave it to Elaine to sing to a baby. Since when is Parthy a major character in "Show Boat"? Plus Prince didn't let Robert Morse open in NY as Cap'n Andy (who is a major character), but let Elaine's --- was it jealousy of his performance? -- make Prince bring in someone else -- John McMartin, who was fine. But Morse would have been better. Donald O'Connor in the even better Uris Theater earlier revival was probably the best Cap'n Andy since Charles Winninger, plus O'Connor's dancing was fabulous.

I've always loved Robert Morse but have heard many stories of his weirdness in the rehearsal room and lack of discipline on stage in the last 25 years or so. Sad.

Ruth in Wonderful Town is written as the ultimate nerd. That's where all of her humor resides. I don't see Laura Benanti even wanting to go there.

I actually can't think of a single young to middle aged name actress that could really nail that quirky quality these days.

Isn't Morse an alcohol addict?

I guess you haven't seen Benanti's sketch work (Fosca etc.).

Is Molly Pope an actress? I only know her from YouTube but I find her old timey style charming. She can be prone to yucking it up too much. I could picture her as Ruth.

Hasn't Sutton Foster made her name on tomboyish "quirkyness"?

[quote] Plus Prince didn't let Robert Morse open in NY as Cap'n Andy (who is a major character), but let Elaine's --- was it jealousy of his performance? -- make Prince bring in someone else -- John McMartin, who was fine. But Morse would have been better.

In all fairness to Stritch, Morse probably got out of control. He got fired from Wicked for the same reason.

Roz owned the role of Ruth, even getting her first Oscar nomination for playing her. Anyway, here's a bit o'Stritch in DB...

Shall we use the word...hoydenish, r392?

Other than the one-and-only Roz in the '58 TV production of "Wonderful Town," by far the best Ruth Sherwood I've seen was Elaine Stritch at City Center in '67. She was heaven, and of course also played Ruth on a short-lived TV series.

Here's Donna's Ruth:

[Quote] I think she excels at...hoydens

Let's not.

How low does Rebel Wilson sing?

I think Anna Kendrick is an obvious Ruth, in terms of type. Would people revolt if the character's keys were raised? I guess duets would be affected most.

Just felt like watching this again...

Emma Stone would probably make a great Ruth and sell tickets on top of it. Her Sally in Cabaret was the best since Natasha Richardson and she had wonderful stage presence.

We prefer Teri.

The only women who could get me excited about a Gypsy revival would be Toni Collette, Allison Janney, or Martha Plimpton. Unfortunately, by the time the next revival rolls around, we'll be getting Sutton Foster.

Debbie!

I think Elaine Stritch should have won the Tony for A Delicate Balance. She was robbed.

But both Elaine and Rosemary Harris were nominated in Best Actress category and Zoe Caldwell won it for Master Class.

KILL IT WITH FIRE, r402!!!

I agree about Elaine and A Delicate Balance, R405. It was a stunning performance. But it was not a lead. If she'd been in the proper category, she would have won, hands down. It was a great performance, she was ridiculously overdue, and the competition was nil. But instead they had to give it to Audra, one of her worst Tony wins.

Oh God. Let her die, Boys. She was an awful, awful person. No one really cares about Stritch.

[quote]It was a stunning performance. But it was not a lead. If she'd been in the proper category, she would have won, hands down.

Now they would ask for a ruling from the Tony committee to put her in Supporting. But back then, it was name above the title automatically goes into Lead.

On the other hand, I can see Elaine arguing that she should be put into Lead. She was always her own worst enemy. She would probably be pissed off that she won in Supporting.

Considering she never won a Tony, I think she'd take what she could get.

[quote]Considering she never won a Tony, I think she'd take what she could get.

Not Stritch. She would have been: "I don't know why Rosemary Harris was nominated for that bland performance. And Carol Burnett was nominated for her unfunny farce? Jesus Christ, the race was between me and Zoe Caldwell and she only won because everyone felt sorry for how Maria Callas got screwed over in life. Can you imagine? Being an opera star and then have to go and try and teach smart aleck kids how to sing? Jesus, I used to teach at Stella Adler and there were some real ballbusters there, let me tell you."

So did Stritch lose the Tony for Delicate Balance to Zoe or Audra? There seems to be some disagreement above.

No disagreement. We were earlier hypothesizing about if Stritch had been nominated in Featured. She was nominated in Lead.

The real "Mama" Rose was about 30 to about 46 or so during the time frame of Gypsy. They need to cast someone age appropriate to be the mother of an 8 year old in the opening scene not 60 year old grannies.

Too bad the "Grand Dame of the American Theater" Miss Brooke Shields isn't the right age but she's probably busy preparing for her Medea in spring of 21 and her Cunegonde for fall of 22 so she can Tony back to back in Drama AND Musical!

I saw A Delicate Balance in London with Maggie Smith and Eileen Atkinson and it was perfect casting. Excellent production.

If Eileen Atkins married Rowan Atkinson, she'd be ...

For God’s sake, no one wants to ever see another production of gypsy ever

In terms of revivals, there should be at least a 2:1 ratio of Follies to Gypsy.

Trouble with Brooke in WT is that Ruth is supposed to be the "plain" sister. Brooke still looked like a model.

Best Ruth I ever saw was Nanette Fabray in San Francisco. Hilarious.

The Follies in Concert was a sell-out from the get-go. They didn't need Burnett's star power.

I was there, Burnett was good, and the audience was ecstatic. Her in-person star presence and celebrity (which aren’t demonstrated on the recording) made up for any missing “beauty.”

Sorry, I don't get the whole love affair with Burnett. She can't sing for shit and she's schticky. And the only time her schtick ever worked was as Eunice because she was able to infuse the character with some real life. I actually find her a much more believable and talented dramatic actress than I do a comedienne. The ONLY reason anyone remembers or reveres The Carol Burnett Show is for the Mama sketches and to see the cast break up during the less than funny skits. If you watch the show in reruns, it's painful to sit through until one of those two things happens. God forbid you get an episode with neither. Deadly dull.

I don’t get Burnett either. And her show doesn’t hold up today. But I will say she was hilarious in Moon Over Buffalo. And the show was a dog without her.

Burnett's appeal was she was a solid talent but she had a warmth and personality and lack of airs that made middle America LOVE her. She was the gal next door putting on a show.

The show was a dog even with her. But she and Bosco really did move heaven and earth to try and elevate it. I had the utmost respect for her when watching the documentary about it.

Speaking of which- a few months ago I was talking to someone about that doc and I mentioned the saga of Kate Miller. I looked her up to see whatever became of her, assuming she was probably selling real estate, and came to find that she has had a long, successful career in television. She's not a star by any means, but she has done well for herself considering Moon Over Broadway was supposed to have ended her career.

[quote]Not Stritch. She would have been: "I don't know why Rosemary Harris was nominated for that bland performance. And Carol Burnett was nominated for her unfunny farce? Jesus Christ, the race was between me and Zoe Caldwell and she only won because everyone felt sorry for how Maria Callas got screwed over in life. Can you imagine? Being an opera star and then have to go and try and teach smart aleck kids how to sing? Jesus, I used to teach at Stella Adler and there were some real ballbusters there, let me tell you."

R411, that's uncanny how you "got" Stritch. What you wrote sounds like it could have been an exact quote. Good work!

I also agree that Stritch was great in A DELICATE BALANCE, and I can't believe at least one person in this thread hated that production. It was great all around. To each their own, but.....sheesh!

R423 nailed it about Carol Burnett. R421 and R422, no need to be so bitchy. Burnett's TV show wouldn't have run all those years if LOTS of people didn't love it. Maybe you just don't respond to her style of humor. But honestly, if you don't think those old movie parodies were funny (SUNSET BLVD., GONE WITH THE WIND, etc.), you're not people I want to spend any time with.

[quote]So did Stritch lose the Tony for Delicate Balance to Zoe or Audra? There seems to be some disagreement above.

Elaine was nominated in Lead Actress along with Zoe. Audra was nominated, and won, in the Supporting Actress category.

Stritch was a bitch. And for some reason, some gay men seemed obsessed with celebrating her ugliness, her cruelty, her narcissism. Why?

R427, I don't know if gay men (or anyone else) "celebrated" Stritch's ugliness, I would say more accurately that they were morbidly fascinated by it. VERY few actors are/were as outrageously outspoken as she and would so gleefully tear down colleagues with no restraint whatsoever. Really, the only other one I can think of offhand is Patti Lu, and even she pales in comparison :-)

[quote] But honestly, if you don't think those old movie parodies were funny (SUNSET BLVD., GONE WITH THE WIND, etc.), you're not people I want to spend any time with.

Bye.

Wow this tread got filled up relatively fast.

Muriel must hibernating.

Sleep well girl.

What has Muriel got to do with it?

Everything

Yes they do r265.

And good riddance, R429.

I've often thought maybe one of the reasons why Tyne Daly was so effective as Rose was because she was the closest in age to the real Rose. I think she was only in her early 40's when she did it, so she could play both the younger and older sides effortlessly. Maybe there's something to be said about casting a Rose who's in her mid-40's at the latest.

r388 Sierra Boggess

[quote]I've often thought maybe one of the reasons why Tyne Daly was so effective as Rose was because she was the closest in age to the real Rose.

Tyne Daly was an effective Rose because Tyne Daly was the only one who was an actual actress. She wasn't pushing a personality, she knew how to create a character from the ground up.

But the singing...

[quote]But the singing... —Oh, the singing!

I was just demonstrating why Rose never was successful in vaudeville for herself. It was a character choice!

But the singing fit the character, it made sense.

[Quote] But the singing fit the character, it made sense.

And Sally Bowles is stuck in a shitty club!?1!N?!1?!

[quote]But the singing fit the character, it made sense.

Jesus. Let's not go there.

"Eliza's polished soprano in 'My Fair Lady' really doesn't make sense for a Cockney flower girl."

And whoever heard of the Founding Fathers rapping ...? (Slippery slope, people, slippery slope.)

[quote] I don’t get Burnett either.... But I will say she was hilarious in Moon Over Buffalo. And the show was a dog without her.

Well, then, r422 you [italic]do[/italic] get her. As you say, her comedic work was hilarious in dog show. That, my friend, is talent.

I wasn't aware My Fair Lady was based on a real woman 442. My bad.

You must have been pissed that Babs singing outclassed Fanny Brice's.

R44: Exactly. Whoever wrote "I don’t get Burnett either.... But I will say she was hilarious in Moon Over Buffalo. And the show was a dog without her" is not even consistent in their highly questionable taste regarding what's good in comedy.

I like Merman's "The Hostess with the Mostes'" but I generally don't enjoy her. I presume the person above means much the same about Burnett.

Give it a rest, R447. The last thing DL needs is a Carol Burnett troll.

[quote]I wasn't aware My Fair Lady was based on a real woman 442. My bad.

Oh, of course. That makes all the difference. Characters in musicals who are based on real people shouldn't be able to sing well, because the real person wouldn't have been able to sing well.

Brilliant.

But what if the character herself is a bad singer?

No, R449, the last thing DL needs is people like you who try to shut down valid discussions.

R448, sorry, that makes no sense to me, either. Merman delivers "The Hostess With the Mostes'" in pretty much the same voice and style as she delivers every up-tune, so I can't imagine why you like her performance of that song but not "I Got the Sun in the Mornin'" or "Blow, Gabriel" or "You're the Top" or 100 other songs I might name. Unless maybe you just like the song "Hostess" itself a lot better than the others, but I don't think that's what you're saying.

You're right, r452, no use here for folks who have nothing to contribute except telling someone else to shut up. r449 just makes this place less fun.

[quote] No, [R449], the last thing DL needs is people like you who try to shut down valid discussions.

You stomping your foot like a little Mary because several people on here don't bow at the temple of Burnett is not terribly valid.

[Quote] Merman delivers "The Hostess With the Mostes'" in pretty much the same voice and style as she delivers every up-tune

I disagree. The wobble wasn't present when she recorded that song.

I can understand people not liking Carol Burnett. It's a choice. I have a friend who hates I Love Lucy, she says it's too loud and manic, but that's why I find it so funny.

But the Carol Burnett Show did break some new ground. Their film parodies were excellent. Eunice and family were great and gave birth to the sequel Mama's Family. She did have some sharply written sketches reflecting society, like the housewife who makes a plea for her kidnapped husband and then wants to redo it because she didn't quite get it right . And she did a dead-on impression of Queen Elizabeth. (Before I ever heard Queen Elizabeth speak, I used to laugh at Burnett's portrayal. Then I heard the Queen speak and I thought, "Oh my god, that's Carol Burnett speaking" For some reason, I always thought the Queen had a deeper voice.)

The Carol Burnett Show ran on for too many years. It should have finished when Lyle Waggoner left. Was he fired or did he choose to leave? Tim Conway was no replacement for Lyle Waggoner.

And Sierra Boggess as a "nerd" who would be good casting for Ruth Sherwood?? No. Just no. Julie Halston would be the right type if she could sing. And was 30 years younger.

Lindsay Mendez?

Well, if we can't have a Carol Burnett troll, at least we CAN have an Ethel Merman troll.

Brooke is gorgeous but there’s a nerdy goofiness about her which came out in her Ruth. Worked for me. And the score was a perfect fit for her voice.

Lena Dunham *is* Ruth Sherwood in the newly imagined production of Wonderful Town.

In that clip you get what Murphy has got that the other Bway diva's do not.

She is funny.

LuPone, Sheilds, Audra, O'Hara. Peters, etc.---none of them can get the laughs Murphy does. Even in Dolly, she was funnier than Midler. Or rather, she made the lines and staging funnier that Midler did. (Midler just did her schtick.)

For the Stritch fans: Elaine in SHOWBOAT.

For the rest of us: I'm not sure this will make you a Stritch fan.

Murphy and My Town.

Did any of you see THE TAP DANCE KID back in the 80s? I know almost nothing about it and am wondering why ENCORES is reviving it.

669 performances. Who was there? Thoughts?

[quote]Lena Dunham *is* Ruth Sherwood in the newly imagined production of Wonderful Town.

Which means that the show will be seen through Lens' lens.

[quote]Which means that the show will be seen through Lens' lens.

When she sings "Ohio" she'll be sitting on the toilet eating cake.

Is the DL poster who mistyped an s for an a in Dunham's first name still around? Did they ever come forward for credit?

It's one of the best DLisms ever.

[Quote] eating cak

What about Tyne's Hostess?

[quote]Is the DL poster who mistyped an s for an a in Dunham's first name still around? Did they ever come forward for credit?

I didn't think that was a mistype. I think there was a certain poster that mispelled certain things because it was easier to find the mispelling in a search. I thought that was the way that pron started.

[quote]What about Tyne's Hostess?

Which one?

Based on her hips, it looks like all of them.

Tyne is scarcely better on the cast recording. Her belts are so... sour.

Karen!

The problem with the Carol Burnett Show is that the variety show format along with broad slapstick went out of style long ago. Throw in any attempts at topical humor which dates quickly. That's why you have "The Best of Carol" being aired and not the full hour-long shows. She certainly still deserves her TV legend status.

Carol!

I still have my signed 8X10...

Caroline O'Connor! (Is who they should have cast.)

Karen Morrow. Huh.

Can someone... explain? Was she ever a thing?

[quote] Lindsay Mendez?

Is Ruth Sherwood supposed to be a fat pig with sideburns?

First of all, R455, Merman recorded lots of songs before, during, and immediately after the period when she recorded "The Hostess with the Mostes'," so I still don't understand why that's the ONLY performance of hers that you enjoy -- unless you're unfamiliar with any other performances she filmed, taped, or recorded in her prime, in which case you shouldn't be commenting on this subject. And secondly, you don't seem to understand what a "wobble" is, because Merman only developed a wobble at the very tail end of her long career.

R454, only a nasty piece of work like you would trash one of the most beloved performers in history and not expect blow back.

[quote]Did any of you see THE TAP DANCE KID back in the 80s? I know almost nothing about it and am wondering why ENCORES is reviving it.

I would think it's very obvious why Encores! chose this show, and it's the same (or similar) reason why they also chose THE LIFE. Would you like to try to figure it out, or shall I tall you the reason?

I love Karen Morrow's remembrance of a play she briefly did in New York and the queen who patted her hand afterwards and told her "you shoulda sung, honey."

[quote] Karen Morrow. Huh. Can someone... explain? Was she ever a thing?

I have never seen Morrow onstage and wasn't alive during her theater heyday. And though I'm sure I saw her on television growing up, I couldn't point to anything specific to remark on.

But about 15 years ago or so when the short lived sitcom "Tabitha" hit DVD, I bought it out of curiosity. Morrow played "Aunt Minerva" and was a regular cast member. The show was garbage, but every time Morrow showed up, it came alive. She was able to make even the hoariest lines work. She had real star quality, even in dreck like that. So I would believe she made an impression onstage, even in subpar vehicles.

[quote] only a nasty piece of work like you would trash one of the most beloved performers in history and not expect blow back.

MARY!

[Quote] I still don't understand why that's the ONLY performance of hers that you enjoy

I enjoy the song. It's a patter number so it works for a performer like Merman. I don't have to "believe" her of feel for her, as for instance in a song like "Ten Cents a Dance."

And one man's wobble is another's (excessive) vibrato.

DL introduced me to Lillian Roth. I'd take her any day over Merman in their primes. There's a similarity in their vocal styles but Roth had heart, charm, vulnerability.

For chrissakes, r485, you can not post that without reverent mention of Viv at 3:00!

I was in that production of SHOWBOAT. Stritch was a nightmare, and everyone hated her. Particularly McMartin...

Angela was sublime in ALNM. They should have gotten Leslie Caron or someone with class to replace her. Stritch was an odd choice.

More, R287! You must have stories/POV on Rebecca Luker, Lonette McKee, Mark Jacoby, their replacements, etc.

R487, not 287.

A friend of mine who worked with Stritch years ago came to despise her for many reasons, including the fact that she was so ungrateful as to badmouth Hal Price (of all people), who, as as my friend put it, "picked Elaine up out of the gutter not once, but twice" -- first for COMPANY, then for SHOW BOAT. She really does seem to have been a despicable human being, and how much if any of her behavior should be excused because of her alcoholism is very debatable, as I'm sure we all know lots of alcoholics who are nowhere near so horribly mean, bitchy, ungrateful, and totally selfish.

There was some documentary or something about Stritch which had a clip of her visiting somewhere, and a fan had volunteered to drive her around. Stritch showed no gratefulness and instead bitched at the fan about how the car wasn't clean enough.

[quote]Tyne Daly was an effective Rose because Tyne Daly was the only one who was an actual actress.

Excuse me

Angie's window card was the best. I sold mine on eBay a few years ago for close to $400.00.

I sold Karen Morrow on Ebay for just about the same amount a few years ago.

I saw Angie in Gypsy twice and as great as Tyne was, Angie was even better. Her Rose was credited with giving the character "charm" for the first time. You can hear her do it on the cast recording (even if the rest of the cast isn't so great).

YOU were the seller, r495? I was the buyer. She was missing a lung when she arrived. You didn't return my emails asking for a refund. I eventually settled with PayPal, thank goodness. I mean, what good is Karen Morrow with one lung???

Listen, chump! I advertised *As-Is.* You should have seen the condition Anita Gillette was in and I had zero complaints!

The listing was for Anita Gillette and you sent them Penny Fuller, r498!

I felt bad so I sent them an upgrade.

[quote]Patti LuPone sure didn't think so! Read her autobiography about Topol.

Patti talks about Topol fucking two different women in the "Baker's Wife" cast, one being one of the young "nieces" in the show, and the other being "an older actress." The older actress is Teri Ralston, though she was only 38-39 at the time.

Patti’s autobiography is one of the most entertaining theater memoirs I’ve read. She dishes a lot of dirt! Didn’t she have to remove a few things that got her in trouble when the second printing came out?

I didn't hear that. Are you maybe thinking of Shirley Jones?

Shirley Jones' autobiography made we really dislike her. She just came off as stupid and smutty. Patti's was very funny.

The audiobook of Patti's memoir is amazing. The book is fun, but the audiobook is laugh out lout funny.

Shirl's memoir got her a lifetime supply of Vaseline, r504!

^ Shirl's got Vaselinity!

Nobody wants to hear smutty gossip from Shirley Jones or Esther Williams.

I was friendly with Marcia Lewis when she did FIDDLER with Topol. She was the nicest woman on earth and had nothing good to say about him.

Al Hirschfeld - The Line King.

In an interview I saw on YouTube Ralston said that despite The Baker’s Wife being an utter trainwreck it still had a great cast. She specified Topol and Kurt Peterson but NOT Patti.

R507, isn’t that a Florence Henderson reference?

Well, yes r512. Which is why r507 signed it "Flo".

Thank you, r513.

[quote]Isn’t that a Florence Henderson reference?

Interesting, it struck me more as as Linda Lavin reference ("You've Got Possibilities")

:-)

Anita & Penny...

I worked with Penny on An American Daughter. Nearly everyone in the cast was saddled with a ridiculous character name. Penny's was Charlotte "Chubby" Hughes. And poor Liz Marvel was Quincy Quince.

r517, Wendy Wasserstein always seemed intent on punishing her characters with "quirky" names in revenge for her own.

Don't forget me!

R517, yes, that was one of her many flaws as a playwright. Two more character names in AN AMERICAN DAUGHTER were "Morrow McCarthy" and "Timber Tucker," characters you're ready to hate before they've even said anything, just because their names are so ridiculous.

I didn't realize, r510, that he lost one of his brothers in the flu epidemic.

R521 What a life!

I just started it, r522, I know! And I'm only 15 minutes into it.

[quote]I worked with Penny on An American Daughter.

Was that a sequel to "Our American Cousin?" I was in the original cast, you know.

Vanessa Williams says she was slut-shamed out of her big Broadway break:

[quote]The Bad Hair star was working to prove herself by auditioning as a replacement in an ongoing Broadway production of My One And Only when judgement shut her down. … During a chance encounter with [Mike] Nichols, Williams found out what led to the choice. … "I walked in, did my audition, uh, left. … [Leonore Gershwin, the widow of Ira Gershwin and head of the estate] said over my dead body will that whore be in my show,” said Williams."

Vanessa Williams has had a brilliant career considering she's a B+ actor, singer, dancer at best. But she had worked very hard and made very smart choices. Good for her. She was terrible as The Witch in that botched Into The Woods revival, however. At this point, she's basically a "park and bark" musical theatre performer.

[quote]Vanessa Williams has had a brilliant career considering she's a B+ actor, singer, dancer at best. But she had worked very hard and made very smart choices. Good for her. She was terrible as The Witch in that botched Into The Woods revival, however. At this point, she's basically a "park and bark" musical theatre performer.

I wouldn't say that all or even most of her choices have been smart. And yes, she was terrible in INTO THE WOODS, due to the double whammy of being completely miscast and also having a totally untalented director. She has been very good in roles in which she was well cast, like when she did ST. LOUIS WOMAN for Encores!

St. Louis Woman

After Midnight...

Thanks for that clip, R528. Like I said, Vanessa was really good in that show. I did not see her in AFTER MIDNIGHT.

I love that St. Louis Woman recording and listen to it all the time though I didn't see the performance. Great score!

Most of the scores Encores have recorded are terrific, esp. The New Moon, Ziegfeld Follies of 1936, Out of this World, Face the Music, Paint Your Wagon and Pal Joey with Patti Lupone and Peter Gallagher.

Vanessa in "Spider Woman"

Vanessa was stunning in Spider Woman.

While I'll agree she's a B+ singer, actress, and dance--she's an A+ performer (similar to, say, Madonna where the sum is greater than the parts)

The Public Theater has announced that it will be presenting a new audio adaptation of ROMEO AND JULIET titled ROMEO Y JULIETA, starring Lupita Nyong’o and Juan Castano. He's the guy who played the lead in OEDIPUS EL REY for the Public, in which he apparently showed his endowment, which apparently was so massive that people who saw the show could not stop talking about it. Too bad there's no chance of seeing that appendage in R&J, as it will be audio only :-(

Tony Awards 2002 "Into The Woods"...Best Actress in a Musical, Vanessa Williams

r534 - "He identifies as fluid."

Geez you get photographed with your tongue going into another woman’s pussy and BOOM you’re labeled a whore 🙄

UK National Theater is doing a televised "Romeo and Juliet" with Josh "Prince Charles" O'Connor and Jessie Buckley from this season's "Fargo."

Josh and Juan Castano need to compare their large endowments.

Josh O'Connor and Jessie Buckley, the two most overrated indie actors currently boring us.

The Grammys are out!

“Amélie” — Audrey Brisson, Chris Jared, Caolan McCarthy & Jez Unwin, principal soloists; Michael Fentiman, Sean Patrick Flahaven, Barnaby Race & Nathan Tysen, producers; Nathan Tysen, lyricist; Daniel Messe, composer & lyricist (Original London Cast)

“American Utopia on Broadway” — David Byrne, principal soloist; David Byrne, producer (David Byrne, composer & lyricist) (Original Cast)

“Jagged Little Pill” — Kathryn Gallagher, Celia Rose Gooding, Lauren Patten & Elizabeth Stanley, principal soloists; Neal Avron, Pete Ganbarg, Tom Kitt, Michael Parker, Craig Rosen & Vivek J. Tiwary, producers (Glen Ballard & Alanis Morissette, lyricists) (Original Broadway Cast)

“Little Shop of Horrors” — Tammy Blanchard, Jonathan Groff & Tom Alan Robbins, principal soloists; Will Van Dyke, Michael Mayer, Alan Menken & Frank Wolf, producers (Alan Menken, composer; Howard Ashman, lyricist) (The New Off-Broadway Cast)

“The Prince of Egypt” — Christine Allado, Luke Brady, Alexia Khadime & Liam Tamne, principal soloists; Dominick Amendum & Stephen Schwartz, producers; Stephen Schwartz, composer & lyricist (Original Cast)

“Soft Power” — Francis Jue, Austin Ku, Alyse Alan Louis & Conrad Ricamora, principal soloists; Matt Stine, producer; David Henry Hwang, lyricist; Jeanine Tesori, composer & lyricist (Original Cast)

Give it to American Utopia, so loved it.

Wish I'd seen War Paint...

The Little Shop recording is a dud. I actually prefer the Kerry Butler:Hunter Foster OCR.

War Paint was just okay as a musical. It's only real attraction was the two stars in it: Lupone and Ebersole.

Soft Power? Are they fucking kidding?

For that matter- Amelie? Are they fucking kidding?

I'm aware of its imperfections, r545 and would have been willing to look past them. I did the same with Side Show.

"War Paint": Most underrated score of the last decade. Those "Grey Gardens" songwriters have the kind of talent you almost never see anymore.

"War Paint" and "Grey Gardens" are the best scores of 1958...

I can't recall a single song from War Paint. I sort of remember the "Winter in a Summer Town" from Grey Gardens but couldn't hum it for the life of me.

Forgettable scores. Had no idea they were by the same people but it makes sense

[quote] "War Paint" and "Grey Gardens" are the best scores of 1958...

High praise indeed if you feel that the Korie-Frankel scores recall the skill of Broadway songwriters of 1958. That year gave us "Flower Drum Song" and "Goldilocks," with "West Side Story" and "The Music Man" having arrived in late '57 and "My Fair Lady" hanging on from '56.

I'll take those scores, and you can listen to "Hamilton" and "Hadestown."

[quote]“American Utopia on Broadway” — David Byrne, principal soloist; David Byrne, producer (David Byrne, composer & lyricist) (Original Cast)

Byrne already has a Grammy and is just an Emmy away from EGOT, and the Netflix show will probably do it.

No Korie-Frankel score has ever received "high praise" because they are bland and predictable scores. No one song from WAR PAINT is noted or celebrated or sung by anyone.

You stuck out your tongue after typing that, didn't you, r553?

Grey Gardens.

She's The Best Thing In It.

[quote] Byrne already has a Grammy and is just an Emmy away from EGOT, and the Netflix show will probably do it.

David Byrne doesn't have a Tony

Grey Gardens was an utter borefest. It would have been far more successful as a one act musical (if there was a market for such things) and they had jettisoned the completely useless first act. The ONLY good things about it were Ebersole and Wilson, and Ebersole didn't register one bit until Act 2.

I saw it at Playwrights Horizons and was shocked they moved it, but then again, that season didn't have shit going for it other than Spring Awakening.

Ebersold only won the TONY for Grey Gardens because it opened early in the season and she got great buzz. 110 in the Shade opened late with Audra and Audra was spectacular— for me, her greatest bway role.

It had become so ingrained that Ebersold would and should win that she did—but Audra was better

[quote] Ebersold only won the TONY for Grey Gardens because it opened early in the season and she got great buzz. 110 in the Shade opened late with Audra and Audra was spectacular— for me, her greatest bway role.

It had become so ingrained that Ebersold would and should win that she did—but Audra was better

You can't even spell Ebersole's name correctly, for Christ sake. And "110" was among Audra's lesser outings.

Of course, "110" must now be Audra's favorite project, as it introduced her to a Starbuck understudy named Will Swenson.

Audra was never fully believable as Lizzie in "110." She was unable to suppress her innate radiance, as original musical Lizzie, Inga Swenson, was somehow able to do.

Even Karen Ziemba was more believable than Audra in "110." And of course Inga gave one of the great female musical performances of the '60s.

Christine Ebersole's performance in "Grey Gardens" was wildly acclaimed and as unbeatable for the Tony that year as it would have been in most other years. Just like Ben Platt's unbeatable Evan Hansen.

Sara Gettlefinger is out of the slammer. I can’t imagine what the last few years have been like for her.

My guess is she learned the true definition of a "Gettelfinger."

[quote]Audra was never fully believable as Lizzie in "110." She was unable to suppress her innate radiance, as original musical Lizzie, Inga Swenson, was somehow able to do.

One might argue that Lizzie should have an "innate radiance." We're supposed to think she hasn't found a husband because she's not physically pretty and/or BECAUSE she has a strong personality that many men shy away from in a woman.

[quote] Audra was never fully believable as Lizzie in "110." She was unable to suppress her innate radiance, as original musical Lizzie, Inga Swenson, was somehow able to do.

You didnt see 110, did you?

Audra was completely able to become the character without any hint of "star" quality. She was spectacular.

Ebersole was great, but the character itself doesn't require much range.

[quote] Audra was never fully believable as Lizzie in "110." She was unable to suppress her innate radiance, as original musical Lizzie, Inga Swenson, was somehow able to do.

I didn't like the Swedish accent Swenson put on for the role.

[quote] You can't even spell Ebersole's name correctly, for Christ sake. And "110" was among Audra's lesser outings.

Thanks, Christine E

Inga

Christine Ebersole was doing a barely disguised drag act in Grey Gardens and it was tiresome 20 minutes in. She and LuPone re-created the living "drag queen" ethos in "War Paint." Frankel and Korie write the same tired idea over and over and gay men over 60 LOVE it. And the show flops.

R568, wow, that was a bore

Well....smell William Goldman at r569!

Wow, I'm hoping I never meet anyone who would find that song/performance boring.

Inga's Old Maid...

I saw a local production of Grey Gardens a few years ago -- I don't think it ever toured -- and I kept thinking "Is this musical meant to make fun of the mentally ill"?

We got a production in L.A. with Rachel and Betty Lynn.

Do you ask yourself the same question of the Maysles film, r574?

Betty and Rachel were wonderful in GG.

The Ahmanson production...

While Grey Gardens has some wonderful performances, the rest was utterly forgettable. Until this thread, I even forgot what it was about.

Well, so glad we could remind you.

[quote]Christine Ebersole was doing a barely disguised drag act in Grey Gardens and it was tiresome 20 minutes in.

What a bitchy queen remark, to describe that performance as a "drag act." Ebersole brilliantly channeled Little Eadie and made her into a three-dimensional character.

[quote]I saw a local production of Grey Gardens a few years ago -- I don't think it ever toured -- and I kept thinking "Is this musical meant to make fun of the mentally ill"?

Although the GREY GARDENS movie is a cult favorite among gays, some people have rightly objected to it because they feel both of the Edies were not mentally or emotionally competent enough to give informed consent for the filming. I tend to agree, although I can see both sides of the argument. But I never felt that the musical "makes fun of the mentally ill."

I actually think it's fun watching mentally ill people!

I don't think that's at all true that the Beales were mentally incompetent- at least in terms of not being aware of what they were doing giving consent to being filmed and why. Yes, one could argue well that they were unable to manage their living situation (which is one of the legal definitions of being mentally incompetent), but I also think it could be argued that the alternative (for them- being taken from each other, Edith going to a shitty assisted living facility and Edie likely winding up homeless) was worse (for them) than where they were.

I never got the impression watching the film that either were unaware of what was happening, and Edie's life changed for the better after the release of the film and she went on for many years finally getting what she always wanted.

R583: At a few points during the film, Little Edie has wild mood swings. She seems carefree and lighthearted at one moment, then she's crying bitterly over her present condition and her lost opportunities, then she's right back to cheerful. I think that's a strong sign of mental/emotional instability. And why do you say that "Edith going to a shitty assisted living facility and Edie likely winding up homeless" was the only alternative for these women? Couldn't they have sold Grey Gardens for a tremendous amount of money even in its horrendous condition and bought a much smaller house where Edith would have presumably been able to afford to live out her days with live-in health care, while Edie would have had enough money to go off and do her own thing?

They had a symbiotic relationship which wasn't particularly healthy. But who were they really hurting? I would have loved to have gone over to visit them...

You must have been positively orgasmic these past four years, r582.

[quote]They had a symbiotic relationship which wasn't particularly healthy. But who were they really hurting?

At least in the moments during the original film when she's crying bitterly, it seemed to me that Little Edie herself was the one being hurt the most.

Does anyone remember the TV film with Drew Barrymore and Jessica Lange? It was pretty spectacular. Can't remember if it was before or after the musical but it did a great job in flashbacks of explaining who those women were before they descended into squalor, with both them playing their younger and older selves.

True, r587, but I've always been my own worst enemy. How would they have ended up if Grey Gardens hadn't brought attention to their plight?

Albert and David Maysles were the best thing that ever happened to Edith Ewing Bouvier and Edith Bouvier Beale.

[Quote] does anyone remember the TV film with Drew Barrymore and Jessica Lange?

Yes, I think it came out about the same time as the musical. Lange, especially, was spectacular

[Quote] Ebersole brilliantly channeled Little Eadie and made her into a three-dimensional character.

Meh. She basically mimicked the documentary

That has to be the stupidest thing posted here in a long time.

This performance has always been one of my favorites. Ebersole was so far from doing a "drag act" as Little Edie and deserved the Tony.

[quote] This performance has always been one of my favorites. Ebersole was so far from doing a "drag act" as Little Edie and deserved the Tony.

Great choice, and "Around the World" is just one of several superb "Grey Gardens" songs, like "Revolutionary Costume," "Another Winter in a Summer Town," and "Will You?"

R595 Will You especially is such a beautiful song. It works very well independent of the show but in context it's devastating. Here's a great performance of it for anyone who never saw Grey Gardens.

Inga's bookend song to Old Maid...

New Thread

Bajour!

Will there be any Broadway musical numbers in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade tomorrow?