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Marilyn Monroe dyed her carpet to match drapes

Anecdote from Kenneth Batelle, hair stylist: "...they shared an intimate styling moment together after a film exec spilled Champagne on her beige silk dress, rendering it transparent.

“You could see everything, like she was in a wet T-shirt,” he said. “She was going to throw the mink coat over the stains for the press conference, but I told her that if she wasn’t changing her dress, she should at least put on some underwear.”

But Monroe didn’t want to wear panties, since they would show through her dress, so Battelle thought up another solution.

“I said, ‘I hear Jean Harlow didn’t wear underwear, either — but she used to bleach her [pubic] hair so it wouldn’t show through,’ ” he said. “So I went downstairs to the hotel drugstore and bought her powdered milk of magnesia, 20% peroxide and spirits of ammonia. It’s a very old formula for decolorizing hair. I told her, ‘Now go in the bathroom and bleach.’ Nothing showed through when they switched on those bright lights.”

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by Anonymousreply 34315 hours ago

Even before the spill wouldn't her bush tuft be visible through tight silk?

by Anonymousreply 111/14/2020

Old news.

Old nudes, too.

by Anonymousreply 211/14/2020

Gross. Don't want to visualize Marilyn's pubes.

by Anonymousreply 311/14/2020

Guess there was no razor available.

by Anonymousreply 411/14/2020

Has any one here read the Kenneth book?

by Anonymousreply 511/14/2020

No, any good?

by Anonymousreply 611/14/2020

Shaving would have taken her 1/10 the time and effort, and putting on underwear would have taken 1/100th.

What the fuck is wrong with underwear!

by Anonymousreply 711/14/2020

Wasn't bush fashionable at the time? Why would she shave?

by Anonymousreply 811/14/2020

She probably liked the idea of bleaching her bush.

by Anonymousreply 911/14/2020

A very well-tread carpet.

by Anonymousreply 1011/14/2020

Probably bleached and made her vagina look like day old raw meat.

by Anonymousreply 1111/14/2020

It's interesting to me that the hotel drug store had all those components on hand. Nowadays you're lucky to find Tums and Imodium in a hotel sundries store.

by Anonymousreply 1211/14/2020

Also interesting that the stylist knew how to make his own bleach. No stylist would know that today.

by Anonymousreply 1311/14/2020

Didn't I read somewhere that MM located the older hair dresser who bleached Jean Harlow all over and had her body and head hairs done regularly?

by Anonymousreply 1411/14/2020

Long ago I read a Marilyn memoir by her maid Lena Pepitone. In it Pepitone talks about her warm, close friendship with Marilyn. They had many heartfelt talks, which was no mean feat considering Pepitone couldn't speak English. Anyway, the part about them being dear friends was no doubt utter bullshit but I believe Pepitone was privy to Marilyn's habits, which included eating steaks and lamb chops in bed and wiping her greasy hands on the bedclothes, belching and farting a lot and rarely bathing. And also bleaching her pubic hair. Pepitone said she came into the bathroom one day to find Marilyn with her legs propped up and spread with a toothbrush in her hand, applying bleach to her pubic region. She said they had a good laugh about it and that Marilyn explained that what with her white dresses (white was Marilyn's signature color) it wouldn't look "nice" to be "dark down there."

I never heard anywhere that Jean Harlow bleached her pubic hair. Her natural hair color was blonde (of course not platinum blonde) so it wouldn't have been that noticeable through a dress, at least not as noticeable as Monroe's would have been (she was NOT a natural blonde). I also never heard that Harlow never wore underwear. Not that it would have mattered much; when she wasn't filming or being photographed or doing a public appearance she favored slacks. But it's true she never wore a bra; there's footage of her walking where you can plainly see her braless breasts bouncing around.

by Anonymousreply 1511/14/2020

I will never look at a toothbrush the same way again...ingenious!

by Anonymousreply 1611/14/2020

Harlow was such a treasure. Such a pity she died so young.

by Anonymousreply 1711/14/2020

Just shave the minge. God. So stupid.

by Anonymousreply 1811/14/2020

[quote]r14 Didn't I read somewhere that MM located the older hair dresser who bleached Jean Harlow all over and had her body and head hairs done regularly?

yes, Simone Signoret talk about this in her autobiography. While the two actresses were friends for a time, the old woman would come over and do both their touch ups.

MM always had a nice lunch laid out for her, and Signoret though a lot of the situation was MM reaching out to someone from Old Hollywood that was otherwise forgotten. And MM would not only send a car for her, but tip lavishly.

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by Anonymousreply 1911/14/2020

R16- Oldest quick root touch up in the book.

by Anonymousreply 2011/14/2020

Was her pussy on fire from the bleach?!😳

by Anonymousreply 2111/14/2020

It probably itched more than burned and it wouldn't be on more than 5 mins.

by Anonymousreply 2211/14/2020

That hairy goomah Stefani should take note.

by Anonymousreply 2311/14/2020

What a great story r19. I love thinking not all stars are constantly up their own asses and shrieking at people.

by Anonymousreply 2411/14/2020

All that electrolysis on her face and she didn't get the hedges done too?

by Anonymousreply 2511/14/2020

[quote]R21 Was her pussy on fire from the bleach?!

I’ve read that book, too, and (I’m serious) r15 tastefully left out the next bit.

Lena the maid finds MM in bed the next day with an ice pack “clamped between her legs,” moaning [italic]IT BURNS. [/italic] MM explains that sometimes the bleach gives her an infection... and the little maid goes on about her day.

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by Anonymousreply 2611/14/2020

I don't believe anybody bleached Harlow "all over." Getting the hair bleached on her head was bad enough; back in the day her hair was bleached with Clorox, peroxide, ammonia and Lux flakes (a kind of laundry detergent). No wonder her hair broke off and was falling out. Eventually, her hair color was toned down quite a bit. If it hadn't been she would have gone bald.

by Anonymousreply 2711/14/2020

I love those sweet white cotton granny pants MM is wearing in that iconic picture. She looks so sweet.

by Anonymousreply 2811/14/2020

I guess things were different in the fifties if a lady had to worry about her dark bush showing through a white skirt. I don’t know that I have ever seen a woman’s minge inadvertently showing through her clothes as she casually walked around in a public place.

by Anonymousreply 2911/14/2020

Lena Pepitone couldn't speak English and later admitted her book was completely made up.

by Anonymousreply 3011/14/2020

I don't think Pepitone's book was COMPLETELY made up. I think she probably did see Monroe doing things like eating in bed, and lolling around naked all day. And I've heard from other sources that MM's hygiene left something to be desired. That's stands to reason. She was very emotionally disturbed; people like that do tend to neglect their hygiene.

by Anonymousreply 3111/14/2020

[quote]R31 She was very emotionally disturbed; people like that do tend to neglect their hygiene.

Well, in addition to being a drug addict alcoholic- -

by Anonymousreply 3211/14/2020

I once coated my crack with Nair and after a while it burned like hot acid. Unfortunately, I had a job as a grocery stocker at the time, and every move became agony.

by Anonymousreply 3311/14/2020

Why didnt women like Monroe and Harlow wear wigs instead of bleaching the krap out of their hair to the point it would come out in clumps?

by Anonymousreply 3411/14/2020

I’ve only read about Carole Lombard doing it, but I imagine every single blonde in Hollywood would be doing it too.

by Anonymousreply 3511/14/2020

Carole Lombard was also known to dye her pubes.

by Anonymousreply 3611/14/2020

At that time absolutely no one shaved their pubes. It would have looked extremely odd and been, probably, highly embarrassing.

by Anonymousreply 3711/14/2020

There was a line cut from the play The Women for the film.

When Crystal rises from the bathtub, Sylvia remarks about her not being a natural blonde.

by Anonymousreply 3811/14/2020

[quote] but I believe Pepitone was privy to Marilyn's habits, which included eating steaks and lamb chops in bed and wiping her greasy hands on the bedclothes,

Marilyn also ate fried chicken in bed, I believe.

by Anonymousreply 3911/14/2020

It still looks weird to have bald genitals if you are over 13.

by Anonymousreply 4011/14/2020

R39, That's not all she ate in bed.

by Anonymousreply 4111/14/2020

was privy to Marilyn's habits, which included eating steaks and lamb chops in bed and wiping her greasy hands on the bedclothes, belching and farting a lot and rarely bathing.

That's all indicative of severe depression

by Anonymousreply 4211/14/2020

why not just dry the fuckin dress, surely he had a hairdryer

by Anonymousreply 4311/14/2020

Silk stains even from just water but thats true r43 they could have just dried it. Prob just an excuse to talk about Monroe's mound.

by Anonymousreply 4411/14/2020

[quote]Pepitone was privy to Marilyn's habits, which included eating steaks and lamb chops in bed and wiping her greasy hands on the bedclothes, belching and farting a lot and rarely bathing.

Is that why Marilyn’s dress always flew up in the air? From all of her farting?

by Anonymousreply 4511/15/2020

That’s the point R40. So they can pretend they’re fu**ing kiddies.

by Anonymousreply 4611/15/2020

"Why didnt women like Monroe and Harlow wear wigs instead of bleaching the krap out of their hair to the point it would come out in clumps?"

They did wear wigs when their hair was badly damaged. Harlow started wearing them when her hair became destroyed by the bleaching. She was interred in her crypt wearing a wig. Towards the end MM was wearing wigs too, maybe for the same reason. In "The Misfits" she wore a rather unflattering wig. She too was interred wearing a wig. One of the police on the scene when her body was discovered said her hair looked very bad, "all burned up" he said. Constant bleaching will do that.

by Anonymousreply 4711/15/2020

[quote]One of the police on the scene when her body was discovered said her hair looked very bad, "all burned up" he said.

GAY!

by Anonymousreply 4811/15/2020

A friend of mine was doing platinum for a while. She said it made her hair feel mushy. I don't know what that means, but maybe like washing boiled wool? Anyhow, I cannot imagine back in 1930s the strength of these chemicals. No wonder they had no eyebrows. Whatever wasn't tweezed to death was likely fumed off by the peroxide...

by Anonymousreply 4911/15/2020

The pressure of constant grooming and having to be "ON" would drive me to drink as well. Even the most narcissistic personality, which Monroe (as Monroe, not Norma Jean) was surely was on that spectrum, must find the constant scrutiny unbearable after a time? What if your toothbrush missed a spot while bleaching? I am sure the news would make the rounds in short order.

by Anonymousreply 5011/15/2020

Marilyn had gorgeous thick auburn hair naturally. Probably why she still had hair in the end, after all that bleaching.

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by Anonymousreply 5111/15/2020

I actually did see a woman’s pubes through her clothes a few times. All while on holiday in Spain. Also saw lots of balls falling out of the mesh of swim trunks too! Spanish beaches in summer attract people from Northern Europe who are not used to wearing summer clothes hence I guess the accidents. Anyway white pedal pushers were all the fashion that year and women were pulling off the bikini and pulling them on their wet bodies and walking back to their hotel rooms so I saw several black bushes through white pants. Also saw bush that grew down the leg of German women and they hadn’t shaved it off.

Does anyone else look at those 1930s blondes and wonder what they would look like with natural eyebrows? Even more beautiful imo.

by Anonymousreply 5211/15/2020

Having drawn on eyebrows (the eyebrows were shaved off) was in vogue in the 20s and 30s. I guess it was supposed to look sexy. But it just looked ridiculous. Famous sex symbols with extravagantly drawn on eyebrows were Clara Bow, Marlene Dietrich and Jean Harlow.

by Anonymousreply 5311/15/2020

The shaved/one strand eyebrow trend resurfaced in late 1960s. Who knows why? I agree it looks horrible, but I guess it is a "look" if you are a trendmaker. Eyebrows do need grooming, but not as much as people think. Following natural shape/arch and thickness is most flattering on men and women. Garbo was famous for her "surprise" look eyebrows, which I never understood. But good for photos, I guess.

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by Anonymousreply 5411/15/2020

Those skinny 30s eyebrows were really horrible. I think Ingrid Bergman helped bring the natural brow back over with her from Sweden.

Vivien Leigh’s eyebrows were nice and heavy in 1938, too. Maybe that helped swing things back, as well.

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by Anonymousreply 5511/15/2020

R52 Oh my how embarrassing! I am 100% sure those ladies didn't realize they were "showing". Caftan, anyone?? LOL...

by Anonymousreply 5611/15/2020

[quote]R54 Garbo was famous for her "surprise" look eyebrows, which I never understood. But good for photos, I guess.

They are.

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by Anonymousreply 5711/15/2020

You don't just quickly bleach your hair like he's suggesting -- the champagne would have dried in less time than it would have taken to bleach her hair. This isn't remotely plausible.

by Anonymousreply 5811/15/2020

R55 is correct, that Leigh brought back the natural brow in GWTW, and she was stunning anyhow, but to imagine here brow-naked is insane! Possibly this was due to her portraying a period role? Not sure, but drawn on brows definitely did not end in the 1940s, and carried on for decades. Here's one of Penelope Tree from late 1960s.

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by Anonymousreply 5911/15/2020

Designer Zandra Rhodes (early 1970s?)

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by Anonymousreply 6011/15/2020

These look like mostly "before" shots of Monroe in the dress before champagne spill, and also, nothing lower than bellybutton. Probably they are in a vault somewhere so we will never know the truth - Mink cover vs. dye job?? With all the beading on the dress, it's not likely a champagne stain would have made much different, TBH.

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by Anonymousreply 6111/15/2020

MM’s maid Lena Pepitone wrote she talked the actress into attending that premiere. See, MM felt too fat to go out but her bestie Lena pointed out her sons were looking forward to seeing her there. Oh yes, and Lena picked the silver dress when Marilyn ripped off the original one.

#TeamPepitone

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by Anonymousreply 6211/15/2020

The overly done Instagram brows these days are terrible looking esp in real life. I see a lot of teen girls emulate the look and they look terrible. Big slugs on their little faces.

We need a thread of good celebrity eyebrows!

by Anonymousreply 6311/15/2020
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by Anonymousreply 6411/15/2020

R49, boiled wool is a good comparison for bleached hair. I've only had mine bleached once, when I was a 19 year-old gayling. I'm naturally a very dark brown, and I was going for a Dixie Chicks white blonde look (did I mention I was a gayling?). The lady bleaching my hair left the bleach on as long as possible (it was beginning to burn), and it was nowhere near the white blonde I wanted. But the texture of my hair was indeed very wool-like. My hair has always been very fine, but with it being bleached, it was almost like I had a perm. I loved the contrast, but my hair was pretty damaged and I ended up shaving it all off after a few months.

On another note re: bleaching, I read somewhere recently that Gwen Stefani (who played Jean Harlow in 'The Aviator') has to have her hair re-dyed once a week. But it's some sort of non-bleach treatment. Otherwise, her hair would fall out as well.

by Anonymousreply 6511/15/2020

[quote]These look like mostly "before" shots of Monroe in the dress before champagne spill.

Sequins are not silk.

by Anonymousreply 6611/16/2020

Read about some guy who was sent to interview MM at her home. She warmly received him and wanted to do the interview in her bedroom because the house was being renovated and the bedroom was the quietest room at that time. (Rumors said that she was banging some of the workmen from time to time.)

The guy told friends, off the record, that there was nothing about MM that made him want to have sex with her. She looked pasty and blotchy and her white hair looked and smelled like burnt cotton candy. The bedroom was a mess with dirty clothes strewn all around the floor. He had so looked forward to being with her and then he couldn't wait to get out of that house as soon as possible. It was only several months before she died.

by Anonymousreply 6711/16/2020

She had a live in housekeeper so I am not sure why her room would be such a mess with clothes everywhere. But I do know that depression makes it impossible to do anything. Marilyn had serious psych disorder, prob some type of bipolar but also serious emotional probs from sexual and physical abuse as a kid and teenager. A very troubled soul.

by Anonymousreply 6811/16/2020

Her last housekeeper was a strange woman named Eunice Murray. It's been said Murray was instilled in the house by Monroe's possessive psychiatrist Ralph Greenson as a kind of "spy" who would report him him Marilyn's doings. She was not a "nurse" as it has sometimes been reported, much less a "veteran psychiatric nurse" as she was sometimes called. She wasn't even a high school graduate. At any rate, her role was to keep an eye on Marilyn. I guess that's what she did most of the time, rather than keep Marilyn's house in order. Ralph Greenson was a pretty fucked up guy himself; he tried to keep Marilyn away from people who had been her friends for years. He wanted her to depend only on him. He was condescending to her, calling her a "waif" and a "poor creature." In order to ease her "terrible loneliness' he acquainted her with his family. He'd have a session with her and then she would have dinner with him and his family, an incredible breach of boundaries and ethics. She was even a guest at his daughter's birthday party. Poor Marilyn. even in her last years she was surrounded by people using her and taking advantage of her and doing her harm.

by Anonymousreply 6911/16/2020

[quote]R68 Marilyn had serious psych disorder, prob some type of bipolar but also serious emotional probs from sexual and physical abuse as a kid and teenager.

Plus, she was a drug addict alcoholic.

Their rooms can be messy.

by Anonymousreply 7011/16/2020

[quote]R68 Marilyn had serious psych disorder, prob some type of bipolar but also serious emotional probs from sexual and physical abuse as a kid and teenager.

Plus, she was a drug addict alcoholic.

Their rooms can be messy.

by Anonymousreply 7111/16/2020

R65- Stefani's stylist uses color and 40 volume. Not Technically bleach, but a shit ton of peroxide. Her real hair is also about chin length.

by Anonymousreply 7211/16/2020

Sidney Guilaroff bleached her hair white for "Something's Got To Give". Unnatural-looking on a 36-yr. old.

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by Anonymousreply 7311/16/2020

Marilyn liked her white hair. She called the color "pillow case white." But it was really harsh. Platinum blonde hair always looks harsh. That kind of hair was Jean Harlow's trademark, but I never liked it. What with the white hair and the heavy makeup I thought she frequently looked like a corpse. Sad, because early photos of her show she was pretty without all the paint and the white hair.

by Anonymousreply 7411/16/2020

[quote]minge

God, you Brits are retarded.

by Anonymousreply 7511/16/2020

R72, thanks for the info!

by Anonymousreply 7611/17/2020

In the pics linked at r61, it kind of looks like you could already see through the dress before it got wet.

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by Anonymousreply 7711/17/2020

This picture got mixed in with the Some Like it Hot pictures, but it's from a different night -- the gown doesn't have any beading, her hair is different, and she's not in those long earrings. She's making a goofy face on purpose yet looks 1000 times better than during the Some Like it Hot premiere, where she looks like she's manic and exhausting.

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by Anonymousreply 7811/17/2020

Sidney Guilaroff bleached her hair white for "Something's Got To Give". Unnatural-looking on a 36-yr. old.

Um, it was the style at the times, a lot of women had the same look. My grandfather chastised my 17 year old aunt for having her hair bleached white because he couldn't understand why you'd want to look old before your time.

by Anonymousreply 7911/17/2020

I don't like it when people say MM was a drug addict. A drug addict to me is someone who uses illegal drugs. MM was seriously, genetically mentally ill. She couldn't help it. She was misusing and overdosing on drugs that were prescribed to her to treat her mental illness- psychiatric drugs. Her lifestyle, lack of cleanliness and tidiness are all indicative of someone who is severely depressed. When you're that ill you don't have the energy to get out of bed much less shave your legs, I also believe her promiscuity was probably more something to do with hypersexuality while manic than anything else, although she certainly used her sexuality for personal and professional gain.

by Anonymousreply 8011/17/2020

"A drug addict to me is someone who uses illegal drugs."

Opiate addiction is physically the same whether you're getting percocets from your doctor, or heroin from a street dealer. One is legal and the other is not, but the physical dependence and addiction is exactly the same. People with serious chronic pain have an awful choice, whether to live with pain, or use perscription opiates long-term and become legally addicted. It's an awful choice, and yes, many people with serious medical problems are "addicts".

Monroe probably was a legal addict, she used tranquilizers like a "Valley of the Dolls" character.

by Anonymousreply 8111/17/2020

[quote]R73 Sidney Guilaroff bleached her hair white for "Something's Got To Give". Unnatural-looking on a 36-yr. old.

I think she looked better in that footage, shot in the last year of her life, than she had at any time before.

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by Anonymousreply 8211/17/2020

Surely the Something's Got to Give hair was a wig?

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by Anonymousreply 8311/17/2020

SGTG was the only time since the early 50s that she had another hot chick in the film with her. I bet she was using diet pills- on top of all her psych meds- to compete with lovely Cyd Charisse (and she was certain Cyd was stuffing her bras).

She looks exhausted between takes in the footage, and sometimes even during the scenes. I read that all during filming she was also suffering from a sinus infection. She was medicated to the gills.

by Anonymousreply 8411/17/2020

the article says the dress was beige silk, and those evening premiere pix are of a silver bugle beaded dress..... maybe there was a separate event if she was with an executive spilling on her

by Anonymousreply 8511/18/2020

I've been thinking about that too, R85. The only notable beige gown she wore that was thin enough for water to make it transparent was the infamous JKF birthday gown. She had some other light gold, cream and beige gowns but none of the ones I found were the kind of fabric to become see-through.

by Anonymousreply 8611/18/2020

he also says it was ok by the time the bright lights were turned on....so not some cocktail exec event

I'm thinking the guy who put this unfinished book together just wanted to cash in...and did not do his homework

by Anonymousreply 8711/18/2020

I understand what you're saying and agree r81, but the onus is always on 'drug addict' with the implication (to those that don't know otherwise) that she was some dirty junky scoring illicit drugs down a back alley and passing out with needles stuck in her arm. There is a considerable difference between a junkie and someone who is addicted to medication prescribed to them by a physician.

by Anonymousreply 8811/18/2020

Q[They had many heartfelt talks, which was no mean feat considering Pepitone couldn't speak English.]

R15 and R62 have me howling. As a kid I managed to get a copy of the maid's book which I thought, even at the time, was really disrespectful - talking about Marilyn's bad habits, secrets and personal life.

Lena also regaled us with how she was able to talk Marilyn out of jumping out her high-rise window (in spite of not speaking English) and how much Marilyn loved her family.

by Anonymousreply 8911/18/2020

The amount of people who supposedly spoke on the phone to MM the night she died surely must rival that of those who were suppose to be at Sharon Tate's the night of her demise.

by Anonymousreply 9011/18/2020

I always thought that tosser Peter Lawford made up the contents of her last call to him. "Say goodbye to the President, and say goodbye to yourself cause you're a great guy.."

And for those who say Marilyn was an alcoholic, there's no evidence she drank a lot. She usually was very tipsy to counter nerves at public events later in her life (Happy Birthday, The 1962 Golden Globes, her last photo shoots) but people who knew her said her problem was all the pills. At autopsy her liver etc was perfectly normal.

Couldn't agree more that her Psychiatrist was an unethical sleaze who exploited and played with her head.

I also think both he and the housekeeper Eunice (who creeped MM out) told lots of lies about the night she died.

by Anonymousreply 9111/18/2020

I was at Woodstock, the Stonewall Inn that night, I saw Judy at Carnegie hall and I marched with Dr. King....

And I missed my bus to the WTC one fateful day. The sky was so blue...

by Anonymousreply 9211/18/2020

[quote]R88 the onus is always on 'drug addict' with the implication that she was some dirty junky scoring illicit drugs down a back alley and passing out with needles stuck in her arm.

Maybe she was. [italic]Were you there??

by Anonymousreply 9311/18/2020

Yes, Marilyn's nickname for Lena Pepitone was "Baby Lamb." Marilyn told Pepitone she was going to call her that "because you're so sweet." Barf!

by Anonymousreply 9411/18/2020

[quote]R88 There is a considerable difference between a junkie and someone who is addicted to medication prescribed to them by a physician.

There really isn’t. Both are compromised groups with lives dictated by their drugs.

Someone who can afford to get their drugs from a doctor, paid for by their insurance company, might be less likely to steal your TV... but that’s a financial issue, not a substance abuse issue. Both groups are DRUG ADDICTS.

by Anonymousreply 9511/18/2020

$89.99 for a hair on Ebay.

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by Anonymousreply 9611/18/2020

Lena is full of shite. She also claimed Marilyn was so unsure of her looks she used to go out in a wig to NY bars to see if she'd still be picked up!

Apparently Marilyn had her maid wait for her late into the nights to witness Marilyn coming home in hysterics and ripping her clothes off because she was ignored!

She also claimed to have given MM marriage advice. I'll have to read it again to see what else old Lena makes up!

by Anonymousreply 9711/18/2020

[quote]r97 She also claimed Marilyn was so unsure of her looks she used to go out in a wig to NY bars to see if she'd still be picked up! Apparently Marilyn had her maid wait for her late into the nights to witness Marilyn coming home in hysterics and ripping her clothes off because she was ignored!

That only happened once, you bitch!

Lena told her anyone can have an off night.

by Anonymousreply 9811/18/2020
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by Anonymousreply 9911/18/2020

Lena said Mazzie used to wave her off and watch her as she walked home, blowing kisses and saying "Goodbye Baby Lamb!" Never mind the fact Marilyn was 13 floors up in a penthouse.

by Anonymousreply 10011/18/2020

MM had Lena set her up on a date with her father. They were practically related!

by Anonymousreply 10111/18/2020

This autopsy photo has always haunted me ever since seeing it in a MM biography.

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by Anonymousreply 10211/18/2020

She only looked like that because her skin was peeled away

by Anonymousreply 10311/18/2020

Actually, I think her blotchy skin was caused by lividity. She died face down. Her face supposedly sagged due to the autopsy. At any rate, in that death photo she is unrecognizable. No one would ever know that woman was Marilyn Monroe. The autopsy also rendered her flat-chested. When she was being prepared for her interment some kind of stuffing was used to make it look like she still had breasts. She has a swelling in her neck that the embalmer got rid of by making a cut in the back of her neck and he pulling all the skin very tight, and sewing it back up Even so she had a scarf around her neck so nobody could see anything. In her coffin she wore a Pucci dress in a rather icky shade of green. Who chose that, I wonder? I heard Eunice Murray, the weird housekeeper said that dress was a favorite of Marilyn's and that's why she should wear and Marilyn's half sister went along with that. But why would Marilyn's half sister listen to anything Eunice Murray said? Anyway, I thought the dress was not very attractive. She should have worn white at the end. That was the color she most identified herself with.

by Anonymousreply 10411/18/2020

Eerie...

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by Anonymousreply 10511/18/2020

I agree, a white dress would have been more in keeping. I thought she looked terrific in the last year of her life. She had gall bladder surgery in 61 which led to extensive weight loss.

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by Anonymousreply 10611/18/2020

R105 I'm sure that pic is fake

by Anonymousreply 10711/18/2020

It is a sculpture R 107.

by Anonymousreply 10811/18/2020

She looks terrific in that sculpture

by Anonymousreply 10911/18/2020

"There is a considerable difference between a junkie and someone who is addicted to medication prescribed to them by a physician."

It's more complex than that, R80, there are people who take tons of perscribed opiates and tranquilizers for medical conditions, and some of them take this addictive stuff because they don't have any better options, some are flat-out drug abusers who have found legal means to feed their habit, and some people are both geuinely ill and legal drug abusers. Now sometimes it's because people are manipulating the system to get legal drugs, and sometimes it's because the doctors themselves are incompetent, or corrupt "Doctor Feelgood" types. Your whole view of addiction is overly simplistic, and needs reconsideration.

Marilyn's doctor was probably more incompetent than corrupt, but remember, the movie studios used to have "Doctor Feelgood" types on retainer, because they needed someone to legally perscribe enough amphetamines to keep their young contract actors working 20 hours a day, and enough downers to give them a few hours sleep. And it still goes on, even if the FDA has been cracking down the last few years, I'm sure the LA basin is still full of doctors who'll give actors all the opiates they want, for the "chronic pain" that comes with wearing high heels all the time.

by Anonymousreply 11011/18/2020

So many biographers have based Marilyn's personality on her breathy, ditzy movie characters. Pepitone; Truman Capote ("A Beautiful Child"); Norman Mailer. It's always fiction.

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by Anonymousreply 11111/18/2020

I think she looks pretty good in the autopsy photos. Saw them many years ago. Shows just how beautiful she actually was. You think you bitches will look better on a slab?

by Anonymousreply 11211/18/2020

If only there were autopsy photos off her muff hairs! Then we would have proof of bleaching with a baby toothbrush!

by Anonymousreply 11311/18/2020

This is oldest trick in book.

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by Anonymousreply 11411/18/2020

R114 well she is now...so many of the best tricks have died.

by Anonymousreply 11511/18/2020

[quote]If only there were autopsy photos off her muff hairs! Then we would have proof of bleaching with a baby toothbrush!

Do you expect it to be ensnared in her snatch shag?

by Anonymousreply 11611/18/2020

Ii heard her cunt had teeth...for extra grip.

by Anonymousreply 11711/18/2020

And I heard that by the time she made it big, R117, those teeth were worn down from overuse.

by Anonymousreply 11811/18/2020

Yes that's true r118. From all the use something's gotta give.

by Anonymousreply 11911/18/2020

[quote]Lux flakes (a kind of laundry detergent).

Not really, they were soap. Lux Flakes were soap flakes make from Lux brand soap. Not a detergent. They were used to wash laundry and dishes, but were advertised to be mild on 'delicate things' - underwear, stockings, etc.

by Anonymousreply 12011/18/2020

I put hydrogen peroxide on my hair as a gayling- nothing happened.

I bought some henna powder at the drug store and coated my hair with it. Nothing happened.

I boiled pennies in rain water, then soaked my hair in it. Because I heard it would turn your hair red. Nothing happened.

by Anonymousreply 12111/18/2020

Why??? Madness.

by Anonymousreply 12211/18/2020

the green pucci was one piece of her many pucci items. she wore it both in a portrait session with her dog, as well as in a Mexican press conference... so it's easy to see why it would be seen as a favorite... she wore a similar color of pucci blouse in the rehearsal session for her 62 JFK happy birthday performance

by Anonymousreply 12311/18/2020

The green dress is the one that she's wearing in the photo used for the famous MARILYN DEAD front page of the NY Daily News.

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by Anonymousreply 12411/18/2020

A top and belt that matched the green Pucci dress have been on the auction block a few times, most recently in 2009. A pink version of the green dress was also sold at this Julien's auction.

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by Anonymousreply 12511/18/2020

[quote]I put hydrogen peroxide on my hair as a gayling- nothing happened. I bought some henna powder at the drug store and coated my hair with it. Nothing happened. I boiled pennies in rain water, then soaked my hair in it. Because I heard it would turn your hair red. Nothing happened.

What was there about rain water that you thought would work vs tap water? Did you also bury a toad upside down in the back yard? How come you didn't try lemon juice and go in the sun? That usually works.

by Anonymousreply 12611/19/2020

The Pucci dress in itself was not bad. It was that icky green color that was off putting. It was a very ugly color and it was strange that MM went to her grave wearing it. I'm sure she had other dresses that would have looked much better. But supposedly she did like the green dress. I'm not sure why; green was not her color.

Jean Harlow was to have wore a white dress in her casket but for some reason her batty mother chose a pink negligee for her to be laid to rest in. It was from her last movie "Saratoga" and was described as a "gown of pink mousseline de soie, trimmed in hand painted roses, daisies and bluebirds." A friend of hers who saw Harlow in the casket thought it was odd she was wearing pink. Harlow never wore pink. Then the friend fainted from grief. At any rate, both Monroe and Harlow should have gone to their eternal rest wear the color that suited them best: white.

by Anonymousreply 12711/19/2020

Marilyn looked very early 60s glam in those clothes and her looser hairstyle.

Were there such a thing as extensions in 1962? Her JFK Happy Birthday hair looked much fuller.

by Anonymousreply 12811/19/2020

[quote]R127 The Pucci dress in itself was not bad. It was that icky green color that was off putting. It was a very ugly color and it was strange that MM went to her grave wearing it.

Green isn’t a color traditionally associated with MM, but she was in a transitional stage of her life. The pale green is flattering to her coloring. It’s also the same color she chose for the towel she’s wrapped in in the beach shots by George Barris during the same year.

We should also keep in mind that the way that dress has appeared in pics (many of which have been photographed) might not reveal its actual hue.

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by Anonymousreply 12911/19/2020
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by Anonymousreply 13011/19/2020

She looked beautiful in those beach photos, I think they were taken as part of her PR campaign to counter the bad press after being fired from "Something's Got To Give" just a few days before she died.

by Anonymousreply 13111/19/2020

Many of the 1962 photos by Bert Stern are stunning.

TRIVIA: she did her own makeup on the first day of this shoot, before they shot fashions on the second day.

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by Anonymousreply 13211/19/2020

The photographer Douglas Kirkland from the 1961 "Bed" pics sounded like a jerk. He admits getting her drunk during the shoot to "relax" her and wanting to fuck her.

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by Anonymousreply 13311/19/2020

Well, it wouldn’t be the first time, that’s for sure.

by Anonymousreply 13411/19/2020

A lot of those Bert Stern photos are rather unsettling. She doesn't look very well in them; she looks pasty and older. Her hair looks like white cotton candy and her makeup is harsh; white eyeshadow and heavy black eyeliner. She's semi-nude in some of them; in one she's topless behind a diaphanous scarf, revealing her shrunken tits (she was very thin towards the end of her life). I heard she was drunk on champagne during the photo sessions with Stern. Seems a lot of photographers photographed her when she was tipsy or drunk. Marilyn liked her champagne.

by Anonymousreply 13511/19/2020

Yes, some of the pics are unsettling, but some are gorgeous. He shot loads and loads of film, so of course it will be a jumbled hit and miss.

MM was a beautiful mess by that point, and he certainly captures that.

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by Anonymousreply 13611/19/2020

r128. winglets have been around forever, if not exactly as extensions. I think she just had a huge volume of fried hair, which really would only look good when fully set... the last movie hairstyle had similar volume... they probably just amped it up because it was on stage

by Anonymousreply 13711/19/2020

Pucci owner.

Extremely obnoxious queen who looks like Chucky.

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by Anonymousreply 13811/19/2020

Green might have had some significance to Monroe in her final year. One of the last evening dresses she ordered was in dark green sequins, by Norman Norrell.

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by Anonymousreply 13911/19/2020

^^ it’s the same Norrell design Jane Fonda wears in KLUTE, though hers is done in a dark gray with long sleeves.

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by Anonymousreply 14011/19/2020
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by Anonymousreply 14111/19/2020

Thanks for replying R137 her hair looks great at certain points in 1962 but probably without incentive or her stylist it wasn't in top condition.

R139 I believe that's the sexy number she wore to the 1962 Golden Globes where she collected "World Favorite Female" (actress). Remember those?!

A lot of the Bert Stern photos she used a marker pen to cross through, meaning she did not approve them to be used. I found it rather distasteful that a great number of them ended up being published, obviously ignoring MM's wishes.

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by Anonymousreply 14211/20/2020

MM entertaining the troops in Korea. She took time off from her honeymoon with DiMaggio to go there. Allegedly, when she returned to Joe, she was thrilled at the reception she got from the GI's and was raving about the size of the crowds she encountered. Joe, always the miserable prick, shut her down by comparing the baseball fans that adored him and how many of them existed. He hated that she was the bigger star in that marriage....so the stories went. Still, there were stories that she was seriously thinking about marrying him again after Miller time.

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by Anonymousreply 14311/20/2020

[quote]R142 I believe that's the sexy number she wore to the 1962 Golden Globes where she collected "World Favorite Female"

Yes, it’s the same dress. But since she’d lost weight she thought the top made her boobs look flattened and small. So she did this stupid thing where she used a new strap to go through the armholes and up around the back of her neck, creating that dangling... thingy look.

Oh, Marilyn. Weren’t you doing LSD at the end? It shows.

by Anonymousreply 14411/20/2020

what it created would best be called a sort of cowl neck halter

by Anonymousreply 14511/20/2020

Who actually reports this shite, like MM did that to her dress? So much of this is made up.

by Anonymousreply 14611/20/2020

Any more hilarious insights from Lena Pepitone, Marilyn's dearest confidante and cleaner?

by Anonymousreply 14711/20/2020

Again, Dean Martin REFUSED TO WORK WITHOUT MARILYN

by Anonymousreply 14811/20/2020

"Allegedly, when she returned to Joe, she was thrilled at the reception she got from the GI's and was raving about the size of the crowds she encountered. Joe, always the miserable prick, shut her down by comparing the baseball fans that adored him and how many of them existed. He hated that she was the bigger star in that marriage.."

Oh, please! Supposedly she came back crowing about how much the GIs loved her saying something like "You've never heard such cheering!" And DiMaggio reportedly said quietly "yes I have." I don't see how that makes him "a miserable prick." And he never "hated that she was the bigger star in that marriage." She was the movie star in that marriage, but he was the baseball star; there was no competition between them.

Of all the men in her life (and God knows how many of them there were) DiMaggio was the most loyal to MM. He got her out of the mental institution she was confined in and when she died and there was no one to claim her body he stepped in and arranged the funeral and paid for everything. He sent roses to her crypt for 20 years. He was the one who was always there for her. By all accounts, he never stopped loving her.

by Anonymousreply 14911/20/2020

R149 that's a tad disingenuous. Yes he was likely the best man in her life but he hated her being a star and so men lusting after her. He wanted he to be his housewife.

It's very much documented he knocked seven shades of shit out of her after she filmed the skirt flying scene for The Seven Year Itch. She had to have her makeup trowelled on for the next few days.

And who the hell knows what they said to each other in Korea? More made up bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 15011/20/2020

What’s weird is the open slashes to the sides of the bust the repurposed armholes create. There’s a reason you don’t see that in fashion - it’s just confusing.

But MM was a bit kooky.

by Anonymousreply 15111/20/2020

Joe DiMaggio was not "jealous" of MM's stardom. He DID detest her sex symbol image. It was really quite understandable; he didn't want her flaunting her tits and ass. He was a classic Italian male; he wanted a WIFE, not a sex goddess. And he wanted her to be sexual with him, her husband, not anybody else.

That skirt-blowing incident was what really ended their marriage. The scene that was shot for the movie was quite modest, but for publicity Monroe did the scene out in the open in front of a slew of photographers. Her panties didn't quite cover up her crotch and a "blur of public hair" could be seen. DiMaggio watched as dozens of photographers "aimed their camera lenses up his wife's dress." An observer said that DiMaggio had a look on his face "like death." They had a huge fight afterwards and that spelled the end of the marriage. I guess some men could deal with their wife in front of hundreds of men, being photographed with her skirt blowing up and her sheer panties showing. But DiMaggio evidently couldn't stomach it.

by Anonymousreply 15211/20/2020

Joe was not a great husband but he gets respect for getting her out of a brutal psych ward where she did not belong (Her inept Shrink committed her) and for being in friend in her last year or so.

by Anonymousreply 15311/20/2020

[quote]R147 Any more hilarious insights from Lena Pepitone, Marilyn's dearest confidante and cleaner?

Lena wrote they only fought once - over some under-starched shirt collars. MM got it into her head she wanted the collars of her shirts very stiffly starched, like a man’s. Lena personally thought they were more flattering soft... and, had she spoken ENGLISH, might have pointed out that’s the way those particular blouses were constructed to be worn.

But love slave Lena toiled away all morning trying to get them the way MM wanted... only to have the star rip them all off their hangers and toss them around and yell that things were never the way she wanted. Tears on both sides ensued.

This was a true sisterhood born.

by Anonymousreply 15411/20/2020

^^ THUS... not “this”

[italic](tossing under-starched shirts around madly)

by Anonymousreply 15511/20/2020

R154 R155 are you R15 or R62? I want you in my life, you make me howl with laughter on Wednesday when I read your comments about dear Lena's unrivalled contributions to Marilyn's life.

When I go home (hopefully) at Christmas I'm going to dig out my dusty copy of MARILYN MONROE: CONFIDENTIAL and add more. Thank you!

by Anonymousreply 15611/20/2020

[quote] are you [R62]?

Yes! That is little me! And thank you! I also wrote about TeamLena finding a moaning MM in bed with an ice pack “clamped between her legs,” post bleaching. Perhaps this is what the Internet will remember me for?? I have worked so hard!

There are so many details from this slim book that I remember, for some reason. It’s actually a bit disturbing.

On Lena’s [italic]very first day[/italic] (and this might be grounds for a lawsuit, these days) MM is strutting around nude and the little maid, eager to impress, sputters that the chubby star has a wonderful figure. MM looks at herself in the mirror and says, “Thanks. My ass is way too big.” (“The slightly bulging stomach didn’t seem to bother her,” Lena thinks, bewildered.)

A dramatic opportunity isn’t followed up on when Our Lena tells her boss she herself originally wanted to be an opera singer but that her father forbade it, thinking performers were little better than prostitutes.

Aaaaawkward!

by Anonymousreply 15711/20/2020

[quote]Who actually reports this shite, like MM did that to her dress? So much of this is made up.

The Pepitone book is 95% bullshit. However, a vast amount of her personal files for the most mundane things were kept for years in two filing cabinets and slowly released by way of auction or author. The Norman Norell dress worn by Fonda in Klute was also similar to Streisand's worn one of her television specials and sold at auction in 2006 and then again in 2013.

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by Anonymousreply 15811/20/2020

More remembrances from Lena Pepitone's highly entertaining memoir:

All Marilyn did all day was loll around in bed naked, eating, talking on the phone, or listening to Frank Sinatra records. If she had her menstrual period the sheets had to be changed several times a time, because she never wore pads or used tampons.

Pepitone counseled MM after MM's affair with Yves Montand ended. She thought they'd been in love, but for him it was just an affair and he dumped her. Pepitone told MM not to take it so hard, that for European men sex is frequently just a sweet interlude, a nice time, some pleasant memories. His rejection of her was nothing personal.

Monroe told Pepitone that as a young starving model/would be actress she would have sex with men for money and free meals.

MM was not discriminating when it came to sex. She said she'd sleep with anyone, the only stipulation being that the man be "nice." She said "Why not? It didn't hurt me and it made men smile. I like to see men smile."

MM told Pepitone that she'd had a baby as a teenager (a boy) but was forced to give him up for adoption. Pepitone suggests maybe she could find out where he is but MM says no, he has his own life, and what would be the point of disrupting it.

Marilyn never mentions an affair with either Kennedy brother but she does tell of how JFK would put his hand up her dress. "That old tease", she called him. She said he got a big surprise when he felt up too far and discovered she wasn't wearing underwear. She also said he called his wife Jackie "the statue." Marilyn commented "I bet he never puts his hand up HER dress."

MM is friend with Montgomery Clift but is jealous of his relationship with Elizabeth Taylor. She also finds it hard to believe he's a homosexual; she figures he can have any woman he wants, so why would he be gay? Anyway, to one up Elizabeth Taylor she sets out to seduce Monty. She invites him over and behaves seductively but he doesn't seem to notice. Finally he pats her behind, tells her she has a great ass. and ducks out. She ends up laughing about it and surmises that when it comes to Elizabeth Taylor he probably "doesn't do anything with her either. "

by Anonymousreply 15911/20/2020

But what color was the blurry patch of pubic hair in the photos r152? Was it bleach blonde?? This is what DL needs to know!

by Anonymousreply 16011/20/2020

The image of MM rolling around in her own menstrual blood is too much for me. I think I need to lie down.

by Anonymousreply 16111/20/2020

[italic]Whelmed!

by Anonymousreply 16211/20/2020

[quote] r160 But what color was the blurry patch of pubic hair in the photos?

Well, if it was anything like 1962 - -

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by Anonymousreply 16311/20/2020

I guess she was out of peroxide that day...

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by Anonymousreply 16411/20/2020

Lol r163 nice tuck job.

by Anonymousreply 16511/20/2020

Thank you r164!! I am impressed that her natural pubes are not that dark!!

by Anonymousreply 16611/20/2020

[quote]Of all the men in her life (and God knows how many of them there were)

There is nothing a Datalounger hates more than a woman who has sex.

by Anonymousreply 16711/20/2020

[quote]He was a classic Italian male; he wanted a WIFE, not a sex goddess.

Then he shouldn't have married a sex goddess!

by Anonymousreply 16811/20/2020

The romantic idea of something is never the reality. After the honeymoon reality sets in.

by Anonymousreply 16911/20/2020

I can’t imagine what she and DiMaggio had to talk about.

Our Lena said MM claimed he was well endowed, anyway.

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by Anonymousreply 17011/20/2020

She definitely had a type. I see a resemblance btwn Joe di Maggio and Arthur Miller

by Anonymousreply 17111/20/2020

Love all the antedotes from Madam Lena Pepperoni

by Anonymousreply 17211/21/2020

[quote]R146 Who actually reports this shite, like MM did that to her dress? So much of this is made up.

G-dammit... don’t you talk to [italic]me[/italic] about movie star clothes! Anyone who’s watched even a single episode of Project Runway can see that bodice in r142 is rigged in some strange way. It looks ridiculous, and Norman Norrell would never design something that half hazard and silly.

I don’t remember where I read that it was altered like that, but it does fit in with the crossroads where Monroe found herself in the early 1960s. Milton Greene and his wife had steered her to tasteful designers, and her clothes in “Something’s Got to Give” were expensive looking and ladylike and refined, but something about that scared her, too. The green sequined dress didn’t show off Monroe’s breasts in the way she was accustomed to and she clearly tried to salvage an alternative look.

Nina Garcia would be dismayed.

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by Anonymousreply 17311/21/2020

[italic]”For evening, Norell looked to the flashy glamour of his early days designing costumes for vaudeville. A lavish use of sequins became Norell’s signature “mermaid” formfitting sheath gowns. These sequin covered gowns, available in many colors and configurations, quickly became American fashion classics. His famous “Mermaid” gowns were produced in sumptuous pastel and jewel colors in different lengths with various sleeve treatments. The dresses remain classic and beautiful in their simplicity”[/italic]. (Colette blog)

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by Anonymousreply 17411/21/2020

[quote]With her usual directness, Amy Greene went straight to the source: the designers themselves. She invited George Nardiello and Norman Norell for dinner in Weston, and together they created Marilyn’s new wardrobe from scratch. Norell’s shapes were sexy but understated—shirtwaists, mermaid dresses, high-necked sheaths, and nautical flourishes—worlds away from the painted-on lamé and plunging cleavage Marilyn was used to. At first Norell was appalled by her trampy taste. “Everything had to be skintight,” he said. “You had to reinforce every seam or everything would break.”

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by Anonymousreply 17511/21/2020

[quote]half hazard

R173 Something like haphazard, I take it.

by Anonymousreply 17611/21/2020

My experience on DL r167 is that all whores are welcome here regardless of gender.

by Anonymousreply 17711/21/2020

^^ Yes. Autocorrect outright rejected my sad attempt at that[bold] : ( [/bold]I know vintage fashion, not spelling!

Norman Norrell also designed the beige dress MM married Arthur Miller in in 1956.

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by Anonymousreply 17811/21/2020

R178 was in reply to r176.

I am falling apart.

by Anonymousreply 17911/21/2020

R179 I'm R176, who are you? Impostor!

by Anonymousreply 18011/21/2020

I am merely r173 ... flailing about in my perhaps final throes ...

by Anonymousreply 18111/21/2020

R146, it's not made up, just LOOK -- instead of putting her arms through the armholes of the gown, she used some sequined fabric to turn it into a halter. You can see it in almost every photo of that night.

Compare it with how it appears on the mannequin already linked, where they put the armholes where they're supposed to be on the bust.

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by Anonymousreply 18211/21/2020

Thank you, r182. Even as an adolescent gayling, when I saw pics of that strangely rigged dress I was like, [italic]”What the fuck is THAT??!!”[/italic]

To bring this full circle, Our Lena Pepperoni says Marilyn had her fly to Hollywood personally with the dress when a tailor was finished with it. Frank Sinatra gave MM the emerald and diamond earrings she wore with it... right in front of her!

All roads lead to Lena - -

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by Anonymousreply 18311/21/2020

"Then he shouldn't have married a sex goddess!"

The same could be said of Arthur Miller. God knows what he was thinking when he married her. I guess he was besotted with the idea of him, a Jewish, nerdy looking intellectual, marrying the premiere sex goddess. He was infatuated with her, but reality soon set in. Marilyn supposedly found some writings of his where he talked about his dissatisfaction with her. She said he claimed that he said he thought she was some kind of an angel but he guessed he was wrong. And that she was a "troublesome bitch" and he "didn't have a decent answer to that one."

Joe DiMaggio said this "It's not easy being married to an electric light."

by Anonymousreply 18411/21/2020

I'm sure Our Lena was devastated she wasn't in California on August 4th. It would have made a great end to her book. No doubt Jack-of-all-trades Lena would have been first on the scene providing CPR and washing the sheets.

by Anonymousreply 18511/21/2020

[quote] r184 The same could be said of Arthur Miller. God knows what he was thinking when he married her. I guess he was besotted with the idea of him, a Jewish, nerdy looking intellectual, marrying the premiere sex goddess.

She didn’t present herself to him in that bespangled, sex goddess way in 1954. She was in her “cultured, self improvement” phase, on good behavior. Wearing kid gloves. I think she was the aggressor in the relationship - he was already married.

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by Anonymousreply 18611/21/2020

According to the article you posted, R185, his marriage was already failing years before he and Marilyn started having an affair.

by Anonymousreply 18711/21/2020

Actually, the funniest moment in Lena’s book is when Billy Wilder and some producers come over to pitch the idea of “Some Like It Hot” to Monroe.

They’re trying to make clear her character doesn’t know the male leads in drag are men, and she says simply, “Well, how could she [italic]not[/italic] know??”

She’s just honestly perplexed by how stupid the character’s supposed to be.

by Anonymousreply 18811/21/2020

[quote]R187 According to the article you posted, his marriage was already failing years before he and Marilyn started having an affair.

I’d like to hear the wife’s impression, if you don’t mind.

Mary Grace Slattery died in 2008. I wonder if she ever spoke publicly about it all. They had children aged 9 and 12 when the divorce happened, so it probably wasn’t her choice.

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by Anonymousreply 18911/21/2020

Can you IMAGINE MM as their step-mother lololol?!?! Oh boy, that must have been interesting to watch the kids around her....

by Anonymousreply 19011/21/2020

R190 Why? She was a person, what the fuck. I hate comments like this.

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by Anonymousreply 19111/21/2020

[quote]R191 Why? She was a person, what the fuck. I hate comments like this.

Had she been an easier person, her life would have been longer.

And if you look at the pattern of her relationships, she was constantly discarding people.

by Anonymousreply 19211/21/2020

"And if you look at the pattern of her relationships, she was constantly discarding people."

That is true. I remember one book about her saying that she didn't have trouble making friends but had trouble keeping them. And of course she never had a relationship with a man that lasted. She really was too mentally disturbed to sustain relationships.

by Anonymousreply 19311/21/2020

For all of her moaning about being an orphan, she didn’t stay particularly close to her half sister, Bernice, after she started acting.

That’s awfully revealing.

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by Anonymousreply 19411/21/2020

I love reading about most old Hollywood figures but Monroe leaves me cold. Nothing about her persona tugs on my heartstrings like it does so many others.

by Anonymousreply 19511/21/2020

She’s extremely interesting to me because she was so divided. There’s no way to pin down who she really was.

Her acting is the same way - she’s always swinging back and forth between being inept and being brilliant.

And her looks had a depth to them. She wasn’t just rigidly pretty, like a lot of stars from her era. At the same time, there was a dichotomy there, too. She was very artificial (spending three hours in the makeup chair) yet often seemingly natural.

Her life and looks certainly have a lot of texture to them.

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by Anonymousreply 19611/21/2020

She photographed brilliantly. The camera loved her. That was her greatest gift. Same with Louise Brooks. Same with Garbo. Their biggest asset was the way they looked, although I thought Garbo did have some acting talent, whereas Monroe and Brooks were extremely limited in that regard. Basically all Monroe and Brooks could play were sexpots.

by Anonymousreply 19711/21/2020

[quote]R197 She photographed brilliantly. The camera loved her. That was her greatest gift.

I agree. And Monroe was not only photogenic, she was technically a superb model.

There are beautiful actresses who basically just [italic]are,[/italic] and kind of sit there, letting their bone structure do the work... such as Garbo, Liz Taylor and Kim Novak... and then there are those like Monroe who actually have a creative relationship with the still camera.

She worked it.

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by Anonymousreply 19811/21/2020

I am going to write a memoir of my time with MM full of interesting tidbits about her flatulence and bed eating and menstruating. You see, as a time traveller, I zapped myself back to 1959 and was with MM until her demise. Let me tell you about the messes she left in her bathroom after the weekly colonics!

by Anonymousreply 19911/21/2020

Marilyn got on well with her step kids. According to Our Lena their visits were the few occasions Marilyn put clothes on.

Her stepson through Joe D was one of the last people she spoke with.

by Anonymousreply 20011/21/2020

" Milton Greene and his wife had steered her to tasteful designers, and her clothes in “Something’s Got to Give” were expensive looking and ladylike and refined, but something about that scared her, too."

Perhaps it was the realization that she was getting too old for slutwear.

by Anonymousreply 20111/21/2020

" Milton Greene and his wife had steered her to tasteful designers, and her clothes in “Something’s Got to Give” were expensive looking and ladylike and refined, but something about that scared her, too."

Perhaps it was the realization that she was getting too old for slutwear.

by Anonymousreply 20211/21/2020

[quote]The scene that was shot for the movie was quite modest, but for publicity Monroe did the scene out in the open in front of a slew of photographers. Her panties didn't quite cover up her crotch and a "blur of public hair" could be seen.

R152: The scene was originally shot on location in NYC, late in the evening. A tip off (from either the studio or Billy Wilder) alerted the press and a crowd of men gathered to watch. Because of the noise (men were cheering every time Marilyn's skirt lifted up) the footage was unusable. Wikipedia would have you believe that both the original footage and the re-shot scene were used in the finished film, but there's no proof the on location filming was ever used.

Marilyn didn't wear sheer panties. Concerned about showing too much, she wore 2 pairs of panties. They didn't help because the bright klieg lights illuminated her dark pubes (I guess she wasn't bleaching down there yet). The wind fan was so strong that her skirt often lifted above her waist. She reportedly said to Wilder something like "I hope you're not saving all this for your personal stag film."

This publicity stunt was Wilder's, considering that he never banned the crowd from interfering in the first place, which he would've done if he was serious about getting this scene in the movie. Also, he made Marilyn do take after useless take of skirt blowing/panties showing, even though none of these shots could be used and wouldn't make it past the censors anyway.

The scene was later re-shot in a sound stage. The wind fan was gentler this time – Marilyn's skirt barely lifted above her knees. It was the 1950s, so of course what ended up in the film was this tamer version. It has surprised a few people who see the film for the first time, as they expected the scene to be like the heavily publicized photos taken of the racy earlier shooting.

by Anonymousreply 20311/21/2020

Wasn't there a giant billboard advertising "The Seven Itch" that showed a gigantic image of Marilyn with her skirt blowing up and her panties showing? Talk about bad taste!

by Anonymousreply 20411/21/2020

[quote]Can you IMAGINE MM as their step-mother lololol?!?! Oh boy, that must have been interesting to watch the kids around her....

I replied:

[quote][R190] Why? She was a person, what the fuck. I hate comments like this.

Then R192 replied:

[quote]Had she been an easier person, her life would have been longer. And if you look at the pattern of her relationships, she was constantly discarding people.

Just asking, what does this reply have to do with what I wrote? I replied to someone who was disparaging (lololol?!?!) her as a stepmother.

By the way. "Had she been an easier person, her life would have been longer" - how? How would being "easier" have prolonged her life? I'm sure not being a drug addict would have also prolonged her life. Had she been any other kind of person, she would have been a completely different actress, and screen personality. We wouldn't be discussing her almost 50 years after her death. People are who they are. I'm sure you're an easier person than her but millions of people aren't lining up to buy tickets to see you.

by Anonymousreply 20511/21/2020

R204: You mean this billboard below? Hardly the worst of the panty-revealing photos, because no panties were on display. You actually think they would've used a giant photo showing panties during the uptight, conservative 1950s?

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by Anonymousreply 20611/21/2020

I would think she made a decent stepmother when sober, she loved kids and could be incredibly sweet to people she liked.

Although I don't know how she would have been around a pretty stepdaughter who was growing up while she was growing older...

by Anonymousreply 20711/21/2020

I've seen clips of her performance in "Something's Got To GIve." I thought she was very unconvincing as a mother. She did look the role of the sexpot, though.

by Anonymousreply 20811/21/2020

No, green wasn't Marilyn's color. But she looked great in bright orange, a color that very few humans can carry off.

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by Anonymousreply 20911/21/2020

R208 the scene with the kids is meant to be her seeing them for the first time in 5 years. They don't remember her.

by Anonymousreply 21011/21/2020

[quote]I’d like to hear the wife’s impression, if you don’t mind.

Sure, but at R187 I was talking to R186; I mistakenly typed R185, and if that was you, just know that I wasn't addressing you.

I do find it a little strange that people are essentially inventing narratives about Marilyn that involve nothing more than their imagination, and that they're quoting and linking articles that say one thing but which they want you to think say another. That's my point. I don't care for people saying Marilyn stole someone away from their wife when the article they post (from a legitimate source, might I add) says the exact opposite.

You can want to hear the wife's side of the story all you want, but the implication that Marilyn was immoral here is just your opinion, not fact. We don't have Miller's wife's side, as far as I know, and every source I looked at said Miller's marriage was turbulent long before Marilyn, and he had affairs before Marilyn, too.

by Anonymousreply 21111/22/2020

Everyone says green wasn't Marilyn's color, but I disagree. I think she looks very good in green, and stylists put her in green in a lot of movies for it supposedly looking so terrible on her: How to Marry a Millionaire, River of No Return, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, Bus Stop.

by Anonymousreply 21211/22/2020

A shite dress with her white hair wouldn't have worked. This green dress is good on her.

by Anonymousreply 21311/22/2020

Sorry I meant white dress

by Anonymousreply 21411/22/2020

No you meant shite.

by Anonymousreply 21511/22/2020

Marilyn looked great in jewel tones as well as black and white.

by Anonymousreply 21611/22/2020

I had never mindfully seen pictures of Jean Harlow before I came across this thread and I swear that girl was in one season of Drag Race.

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by Anonymousreply 21711/22/2020

Technically, both were correct r214.

by Anonymousreply 21811/22/2020

Those were not granny panties in her day. That was standard female undergarments.

by Anonymousreply 21911/22/2020

I highly recommend this excellent documentary on Marilyn's last months and last film shoot. She was a nightmare on Something's Got to Give, constantly late or absent, to the point that production basically shut down because they'd filmed all they could without Marilyn. Her work in the surviving footage is very unfocused; I don't see how they could ever have gotten a usable performance out of her.

The documentary strongly suggests that Marilyn committed suicide because of her deep depression over getting older. Her career wasn't in the toilet--in the last weeks of her life, the studio was coming around to the idea of restarting Something's Got to Give, and she'd even signed a new two-picture deal. But she had to know that she wouldn't have that kind of power in 10 or even 5 years, and then what would she do?

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by Anonymousreply 22011/22/2020

She simply wasn't suicidal, it was most likely a miscalculation as she was not sleeping well that weekend.

She was ill with infection (sinusitis and bronchitis) as attested to by the studio's own Doctors. Yes she cost then time and money but she was genuinely sick.

by Anonymousreply 22111/22/2020

In hindsight, she wasn’t a very astute judge of material. After she formed her own production company the artistic world was at her fingertips... and she agreed to the fluffy The Prince and the Showgirl?? Dear lord. And why on earth agree to the horrible Let’s Make Love??

Maybe The Stripper would have revitalized her as an actress, but she was very unprepared to chart a mature career. Yet addicts are like that - they lack follow through.

The other thing working against her was the way she simply couldn’t sustain professional or personal relationships. She was burning bridges when she should have been forging alliances.

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by Anonymousreply 22211/22/2020

But she wasn't too sick to attend Kennedy's birthday celebration that year, even though the studio had told her not to go because SGTG was already so behind schedule. But she went, giving us the famous "Happy Birthday Mr. President" moment. That was one of the primary causes of the studio firing her not long after.

Did she have a sinus infection? Probably. But that doesn't account for the dozens of days she called out sick on SGTG. She was mentally ill and a fading star, and she knew it. The studio wouldn't have put up with her shenanigans once Marilyn turned 40, especially given the youthquake that was on the way. Her final call to Peter Lawler was the equivalent of a suicide note. Most damningly, the coroner found fistfuls of pills in her stomach--that's not an incautious overdose. That's someone who wanted to die.

by Anonymousreply 22311/22/2020

R223 there were no pills in her stomach you fucking idiot. And her performing for JFK was approved by the studio before she signed on for the movie. Even though they were running NG way behind no one in authority ever thought to tell her not to go.

And she got a 500% pay increase and asked to do a second picture for Foz when they came crawling back in July. She also demanded they fire the Director (who wasn't getting the best from her and was a driving force being her getting canned in the first place). Marilyn was at her peak when she accidentally had a few too many pills.

Suck it, hater

by Anonymousreply 22411/22/2020

Watch the documentary, R224. People who were actually involved in the production talked about the problems Marilyn caused and the fact that the studio did NOT want her to go to the birthday celebration because of how far behind the picture was. The documentary includes the Coroner's report which discusses the amount of pills found in Marilyn's stomach.

In August 1962, Marilyn Monroe was pushing 40, thrice-divorced, and childless. Her finances were precarious and based on her ability to maintain a movie career which mentally and physically tortured her and would probably end within the next 5 years. She was mentally ill and addicted to the pills she used to self-medicate. She was DONE.

But you keep on clinging to those delusions, R224. Marilyn has been dead 60 years and doesn't give a shit.

by Anonymousreply 22511/22/2020

The documentary is wrong. Marilyn was the star, who gives a shit what these other people thought

by Anonymousreply 22611/22/2020

Yes, that movie "Let's Make Love' was truly atrocious. The script was crummy and Marilyn was not in good shape, looking pasty and plump. It was difficult to find a leading actor to play opposite her; her unprofessionalism was legendary. But finally Yves Montand was cast as the male lead, even though American audiences had never heard of him and he could barely speak English. The only noteworthy thing about the movie was that it instigated a blatant affair between Monroe and Montand (both were married at the time, she to Arthur Miller, he to Simone Signoret). Monroe fell for Montand hard, but for him it was just another affair and she was devastated when he broke it off. Just another sad chapter of Marilyn Monroe's life; a failed movie. a failed love affair.

by Anonymousreply 22711/22/2020

Arthur Miller was tasked with rewriting the script.

by Anonymousreply 22811/22/2020

Marilyn worked as a call girl when she was a struggling model/actress in LA, not to mention all the photographers and studio executives she fucked on her way up the Hollywood ladder. By the time she did LML, she'd been around the block so many times she's worn a path. It's amazing she could still be so naive as to think someone like Montand would leave his wife for her. Frenchmen fuck around but they always go back home to the wife and mother of their kids--it's too inconvenient and expensive not to.

by Anonymousreply 22911/22/2020

A lot of old hollywood struggled with addiction and were messes. Honestly, it's Russian roulette. Some made it others didn't. A helluva lot more made it and some even survived into old age! We know a lot about Marilyn because she died and everybody yapped about how bad she was at the end. You don't think Johnny Depp or Angelina Jolie are big messes?

by Anonymousreply 23011/22/2020

[quote]stylists put her in green in a lot of movies for it supposedly looking so terrible on her: How to Marry a Millionaire, River of No Return, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, Bus Stop.

You're Welcome.

by Anonymousreply 23111/22/2020

".I think she looks very good in green."

Some shades of green looked better on her than others. But that pale, chartreuse green that was the color of her burial dress did not become her.

by Anonymousreply 23211/22/2020

The producers of SGTG admitted that they made a mistake in trying to stop her from going to JFK's birthday bash. What they realized much later was they should have used it to publicize the unfinished picture. It made worldwide headlines and pictures of her in that dress were splashed over most of the world's newspaper's front pages.

by Anonymousreply 23311/22/2020

[quote]r209 No, green wasn't Marilyn's color. But she looked great in bright orange, a color that very few humans can carry off.

Singer Abbey Lincoln threw that dress down her incinerator after she wore it in “The Girl can’t Help It.” She was sick of being shoehorned into a sexy image.

Ballsy! I wonder if 20th Century Fox sent her a bill!

[quote] In her neophyte days, Abbey says: “They wanted to make me a glamour type when I first got to Hollywood. I got in this movie, The Girl Can’t Help It [with Jayne Mansfield; Little Richard sang the title song]. I sang something called ‘Spread the Word.’ No, nothing happened with that. They weren’t interested in what I was singing. They were just interested in me wearing that Marilyn Monroe dress. The one she wore in Gentleman Prefer Blondes. [Max] Roach saved me from all that.

[quote]“But before that I’d wear this dress, it was orange chiffon and my breasts would be bouncing around. It actually had cotton in the bra. That’s all they were interested in: me wearing Marilyn Monroe’s dress. They were creating some rep for me as some breasty sexy woman. But I wasn’t never really that. I can’t stand some man looking at me and just thinking about sex.”

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by Anonymousreply 23411/22/2020

No, Marilyn's career was all but over. Her godawful work habits cost the studios shit-tons of money over her salary and they may have tolerated it while she was bringing in the bucks but "Something's Got To Give" and "The Stripper" weren't going to fix her general downward trend, and the studios weren't going to take much more from her. And tastes were going to change as the sixties hit, by the time she hit forty the "Youthquake" would be well underway and the hippies and revolutionaries were moving up to the starting line. She might have gotten in a few more sex comedy roles before the culture changed and her career evaporated, and she didn't have enough money to retire or the professionalism to TV or live performances.

Face it, her future looked unpromising, but I don't think she committed suicide. Accidental overdose would be my guess, she couldn't sleep so she took another pill and then maybe another, and if she woke up another after that... well, that could have happened at any time before or after it actually did. And with the sixties coming in, so many more interesting drugs would have been floating around, in a few years, she wouldn't have had to limit herself to pills.

by Anonymousreply 23511/22/2020

Did “What a Way to Go” (which she was in discussions for) make money? That’s another kind-of-awful movie, seemingly made for five year olds.

by Anonymousreply 23611/22/2020

Well, accoring to wikipedia "What A Way To Go" cost 3.7 million and made 11.1 million, but I don't know if that meant it broke even in the mid-sixties. The general rule today is that a movie needs to make three times its budget to turn a profit, and it made about three times its budget, so b today's rules it more or less broke even.

But it woudn't have with Marilyn in the lead, because she was a one-woman cost overrun generating machine.

by Anonymousreply 23711/22/2020

A Marilyn loving queen named Donald Spoto claimed that Marilyn died from an enema. Her psychiatrist Ralph Greenson prescribed a chloral hydrate enema for her, not knowing she'd already taken quite a few pills. The weird housekeeper "administered" the enema, which was "expelled" onto the bed sheets which is why she was oddly doing laundry after the discovery of Marilyn's body. The combination of the pills and the enema killed her. She was not suicidal; her future looked bright. She had a lot of movie offers and was going to remarry Joe DiMaggio again. That's what Donald Spoto said and I myself think he was full of shit. His biography of Marilyn kissed her ass all over the place. The only thing good about it was that he discredited two weird characters who made a career out of being confidantes of Marilyn Monroe although there is no evidence that Marilyn was friends with either one of them. Robert Slatzer said he was a lifelong friend of Marilyn's and even her second husband. But he was nothing more than a fan who had some photos of him taken with Marilyn. She was alway good about posing for photos with fans. Jeanne Carmen claimed to be Marilyn's "roommate" and that Marilyn called her several times on the last night she was alive, begging her to come over. She also claimed to have seen first hand Bobby Kennedy coming over for dates with Marilyn. These two were all over talk shows, spouting their bullshit. It was good to see them exposed as liars in Spoto's MM bio. But that was really the only good thing about it.

by Anonymousreply 23811/22/2020

That’s the first time I’ve heard of an enema bring tied to this death.

by Anonymousreply 23911/22/2020

[quote]and "The Stripper"

That was Joanne Woodward. Monroe was considered for the part opposite Pat Boone when the film was titled Celebration, but Pat turned it down and Monroe went on to SGTG. Johnson's version was much darker and involved the space program.

by Anonymousreply 24011/22/2020

Costume sketch for Monroe in The Stripper, when it still had the same title as the stage play it’s based on.

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by Anonymousreply 24111/22/2020

[quote]I guess things were different in the fifties if a lady had to worry about her dark bush showing through a white skirt. I don’t know that I have ever seen a woman’s minge inadvertently showing through her clothes as she casually walked around in a public place.

The scene required the wind to blow up her dress to reveal her underwear. Therefore, it was possible to see her bush.

by Anonymousreply 24211/22/2020

R242 only because MM was wearing undies (cooled in her icebox) in that scene.

If a lady went commando it may have been possible to see her dark Bush though light fabric

by Anonymousreply 24311/22/2020

She was terribly mentally ill. Mental illness ran rampant in her family, she couldn't help it. She spent her life trying to fix something that she never could. Those that say she wasn't depressed don't know the mind of a manic depressive. They're elated, seeming happily one moment, and plunged deep into despair the next, it's the nature of the illness. It's probably for the best she died no matter how the means, living with such illness is torturous. I think we should leave the poor woman alone.

by Anonymousreply 24411/22/2020

R238, I've read a few bios by Spoto (on Liz Taylor, James Dean, Tennessee Williams, and Joan Crawford), and though they're entertaining, he does--as you say--worship them and doesn't paint a full picture of their complex personalities.

I remember the neverending repeats of an 'E! True Hollywood Story' with Jeanne Carmen, and it was cringe-inducing. She really milked Marilyn's death for all it was worth, while others--like Sheree North--never spoke much of MM even though they could have.

by Anonymousreply 24511/23/2020

[quote]Her final call to Peter Lawler was the equivalent of a suicide note.

Peter LawFORD was a lush who would tell scandalous half-true stories to anyone offering a paycheck. His tales about Marilyn and Judy and others are specious at best.

by Anonymousreply 24611/23/2020

I loved Sheree North. She outlasted the blonde bombshell image that was imposed on her in some weird attempt to make MM fall into line as far as her unprofessionalism was concerned. Studio execs thought that MM would feel so threatened by another beautiful, sexy blonde (Jayne Mansfield was a joke) that she would toe the line better.

BTW, what in the ugly world were they thinking when they starred Tom Ewell in "The 7 Year Itch?" He absolutely ruined that whole movie for me.

by Anonymousreply 24711/23/2020

The information about the enema comes from Thomas Noguchi's book in 1983; he addressed rumors that were already floating around at the time, which were based on the fact that her psychiatrist Ralph Greenson had prescribed a chloral hydrate enema to Marilyn, and that her stomach was reported to have been empty per the autopsy. The rumor had been that someone had slipped her an overdose through the prescribed enema, without her knowledge. Noguchi dismissed the possibility, saying she'd probably swallowed the medication, considering there was damage to the stomach lining consistent with overdose

Donald Spoto's theory is that she'd doubled up her doses of meds from Greenson and another doctor, taking both pills and an enema, not realizing the combination could kill her, and that a coverup followed by the doctors who were just trying to cover their collective asses.

by Anonymousreply 24811/23/2020

Marilyn filled her Nembutal prescription the day before she died. On her bedside table, next to her corpse, were an empty Nembutal bottle and an empty bottle of chloral hydrate (a powerful sedative). The coroner's report stated that based on the amount of Nembutal and chloral hydrate in her blood, the drugs were taken over just a minute or two. This wasn't someone taking a couple of sleeping pills and then waking up an hour or two later and taking more, leading to an incautious overdose. This is someone chasing handfuls of Nembutal with chloral hydrate. This is someone who wanted to die.

Marilyn's last words to Peter Lawford at around 8 PM that night were "Say goodbye to Pat, say goodbye to the president, and say goodbye to yourself, because you're a nice guy." She then became unresponsive. Lawford was concerned enough to call her agent, who tried unsuccessfully to contact her psychiatrist, and then called her lawyer. The lawyer called the house and was told by the housekeeper that Marilyn was fine. This same housekeeper found Marilyn dead at 3:30 AM. She'd died between 8:30 and 10:30 PM.

Her last words to Lawford, the number of drugs in her bloodstream, and the locked door of her bedroom all strongly indicate suicide. Conspiracy theories are fun to talk about, but the reality is that Marilyn was an ill and desperate woman who wanted out. And she got out.

by Anonymousreply 24911/23/2020

[quote]After she formed her own production company the artistic world was at her fingertips... and she agreed to the fluffy The Prince and the Showgirl??

Because it was directed by and starring Laurence Olivier, considered one of the best actors in the world at the time, and It was based on a play by the highly respected Terence Rattigan, in which Olivier and Vivien Leigh had starred on the stage.

by Anonymousreply 25011/23/2020

"The Prince and the Showgirl" was a terrible vehicle. Marilyn Monroe with all those highly trained, highly disciplined English actors? She was a fish out of water, and the making of that movie was a nightmare.

by Anonymousreply 25111/23/2020

I read once that a director, I think it was Billy Wilder, said that you got about 3 takes with Marilyn. After that, she'd start to fall apart. Can you imagine spending hours getting her out of her dressing room, and then after just 3 takes she's done?

by Anonymousreply 25211/23/2020

^ I've read the opposite. Marilyn supposedly took a long time to warm up when filming a scene and got better after many takes. This frustrated the other actors, like Jack Lemmon and Tony Curtis, who got weaker as they reached take 15 or whatever. The director would choose Marilyn's best take for the final print, not theirs, so her co-stars had to bring their best game for every take.

Yeah, she was difficult and often unprofessional, but the studio put up with it because it was her name that was bringing the audiences to the movie theaters. She was 20th Century-Fox's biggest moneymaker during the 1950s.

by Anonymousreply 25311/23/2020

Boy, the studio took a LOT off of her. She should have been fired long before she was. Her behavior (hours late getting to the set, not remembering her lines) should not have been tolerated. But she was this big star, so they let her get away with a lot. Same was true of Judy Garland. MGM put up with her behavior until nothing else could be done except fire her.

by Anonymousreply 25411/23/2020

I just read some of this thread to my 80-year-old mom, who I visit every Monday. (She brought up MM over dinner.)

Her verdict: “I think gay men are more fun than gay women.”

by Anonymousreply 25511/23/2020

I attended a Marilyn fan club meeting at which Donald Spoto spoke about his book and then proceeded to argue with James Spada, another Monroe author in attendance over the Kennedy affairs.

Years ago, a friend befriend Eunice Murray about a decade before she died. For his birthday one year, he sent a list of questions to her about her relationship with Monroe and that particular night and asked her to answer as many as she felt comfortable answering. One of the three she answered regarded the bedroom door.

In a shaky hand next to the typed question "was the bedroom door locked" was the word "no."

Make of that what you will.

And finally, LOVE Prince and the Showgirl. Monroe wipes the floor with them all and looks absolutly fucking stunning while doing it. Have the white dress worn when she repeatedly gets pinned by the Duke. Five copies, four survive. The purple overcoat for the film is now in an Irish museum.

by Anonymousreply 25611/23/2020

r249 You've discounted the theory that she was doing it for attention and fully expected to be saved, have her stomach pumped etc. She'd done it before, remember. Take a bunch of pills, get on the phone and say your goodbyes, friends worry and rush over to save her, Marilyn gets sympathy and attention. Except Murray said she was fine, and she died.

by Anonymousreply 25711/23/2020

It does make you wonder why Murray didn't check on her, given Marilyn's past attempts.

by Anonymousreply 25811/23/2020

Our Lena would never have let that happen.

Baby Lamb would be out in the yard twirling flaming batons so the chopper could land and airlift Marilyn to safety.

by Anonymousreply 25911/23/2020

I was sick of cleaning up after the filthy mad bitch, so i let her go.

by Anonymousreply 26011/23/2020

I know exactly what happened. Marilyn felt peckish and made her way to the fridge, whereupon she discovered there was no steak, pork chops OR fried chicken.🍗 She became despondent and hypoglycemic due to lack of snacks, called everyone she knew (except Lena Pepitone) to rant about this and then finally, exhausted, downed a couple handfuls of tic tacs and drifted away...to a land full of meat treats.

by Anonymousreply 26111/23/2020

R261 lol you bastard!

Lena must have been despondent at missing so much drama. Didn't she say in her book that Marilyn wanted her to come to California and be her housekeeper?

Did MM own that NY penthouse? I wonder how much loot lena scored when she was doing her final clean?

by Anonymousreply 26211/24/2020

Eunice wasn't much of a housekeeper, Marilyn's room was a tip.

by Anonymousreply 26311/24/2020

[quote]Did MM own that NY penthouse?

Wasn't the penthouse.

by Anonymousreply 26411/24/2020

It was on the top floor

by Anonymousreply 26511/24/2020

[quote]R262 Did MM own that NY penthouse? I wonder how much loot lena scored when she was doing her final clean?

I think Lena scooted right over to the NY apartment when she read of MM’s death, but the police (or attorneys?) had sealed it off. The doorman said if Baby Lamb had got there just a little earlier, he’d of course have let her in.

TRIVIA: While in L.A., MM was developing a sitcom to star herself and her maid. It was to be called [bold]#EveryoneLovesLena. [/bold] Some think that had a lot to do with her mysterious death.

by Anonymousreply 26611/24/2020

Marilyn never owned any real estate in her life until she bought that house shortly before her death. I think she did it at her psychiatrist's urging; he thought it would bring some stability to her life. She was heavily influenced by him. He had a Spanish style home, so she took a house that was similar. It was very modest, not a "movie star" house at all. Someone described it as being a "cheap hacienda."

by Anonymousreply 26711/24/2020

It was a cute house. Where was her puppy Maf when she died?

by Anonymousreply 26811/24/2020

[quote] MGM put up with her behavior until nothing else could be done except fire her.

MGM didn't fire Garland, she was granted a release from her contract that she herself requested.

by Anonymousreply 26911/24/2020

"MGM didn't fire Garland, she was granted a release from her contract that she herself requested."

Then why did she slit her throat three days after being "severed" from the MGM payroll? Doesn't seem like she was too pleased not to be working for MGM anymore.

by Anonymousreply 27011/24/2020

No, R269 is right--Judy did want out of the MGM contract. MGM let her go because at that point they thought she was pretty much finished as a movie star. But being Judy, she immediately regretted the decision and acted out. It would be one of many, many suicidal gestures in her life.

by Anonymousreply 27111/24/2020

Thanks, R 271

by Anonymousreply 27211/24/2020

Nope R265. Marilyn's apartment is on the 13th floor of a 14 floor building. 444 E. 57th Just down the block is 2 Sutton Place where she had an apartment and Sutton Place Park which she would frequent during her marriage to Miller.

Read the first two paragraphs of this condo for sale from the same building.

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by Anonymousreply 27311/24/2020

The 14th floor was probably later added for her best friend Lena, pursuant to MM’s will.

by Anonymousreply 27411/24/2020

Marilyn didn't seem to have much interest in home decor at all. Her house was almost unfurnished when she died.

by Anonymousreply 27511/24/2020

Didn't she usually live in furnished hotels or move in with husbands who already had their own homes?

by Anonymousreply 27611/24/2020

The lack of pills/capsules in her stomach is easily explained. She was known to prick Nembutal's with a pin for them to dissolve into her system faster. What makes people think she just didn't open the capsule, pour the contents down her throat and then flush the capsules? Simple. Fast. Effective. Deadly.

by Anonymousreply 27711/25/2020

Why bother to flush the empty capsules?

by Anonymousreply 27811/25/2020

If I had been there I would have dredged the drains!

by Anonymousreply 27911/25/2020

She had gone to Mexico and purchased furniture's and tiles to decorate the house. She'd just moved in a few months before and was (unhealthily) trying to emulate the style of her scuzzy Psychiatrist who deliberately made Marilyn dependent on him.

by Anonymousreply 28011/25/2020

The guy in the pic at r182 claimed that he and MM were to get married at one point. She met him on that trip to Mexico.

Talk about BDF!

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by Anonymousreply 281Last Thursday at 4:14 AM

Ugh...that hair looks terrible.

by Anonymousreply 282Last Thursday at 4:56 AM

She was beautiful straight on, but had a horrible profile.

by Anonymousreply 283Last Thursday at 5:04 AM

She was starting to get jowls so it’s good she checked out when she did. It would’ve made her miserable to get old.

by Anonymousreply 284Last Thursday at 5:36 AM

That stupid dress with the weird bodice is what killed her.

by Anonymousreply 285Last Thursday at 6:35 AM

Marilyn really put on a whole persona in a lot of her public appearances, even in still photos you could see she was playing a part, often badly. It was probably nerves. The Golden Globes with the messed-up green dress is a really good example.

Younger Marilyn would never have done that to the dress, but by that time she was falling apart enough that she looked like a caricature and not like the real Marilyn and was making a lot of poor decisions.

by Anonymousreply 286Last Thursday at 6:55 AM

That [italic]dress [/italic]was enough to get her institutionalized again.

Perhaps it’s best she didn’t live to face that.

by Anonymousreply 287Last Thursday at 7:23 AM

The dress...she probably gained weight and couldn't fit through the armholes and still zip it up. So she wore it another way. You guys act like it makes her insane. If her fans were as stupid as you no wonder she offed herself.

by Anonymousreply 288Last Thursday at 7:32 AM

Marilyn looked stunning at the 1962 Golden Globes

by Anonymousreply 289Last Thursday at 7:57 AM

Someone said this on the thread about Joan Crawford's NYC apartments: "[R38], if Joan had still been making quality films, she might have. But once your film work dries up, most smart stars "retire" and get out of town so they don't look washed up. In Hollywood, at least at that time, if you weren't working steadily, you were shunned as some sort of bad luck or curse."

If Marilyn had lived, her career wouldn't have lasted much longer. Where would she have gone when she got fed up with LA and the movie industry?

My guess would my NY first, then wherever her next husband lived.

by Anonymousreply 290Last Thursday at 8:23 AM

[quote]But once your film work dries up, most smart stars "retire" and get out of town so they don't look washed up.

I thought Crawford originally lived in NYC because she married Alfred Steele. Pepsi's headquarters are in Westchester. She was then on the board after his death, was forced out in '73, and didn't live much longer anyway.

by Anonymousreply 291Last Thursday at 8:35 AM

Marilyn bought that country farm in the 50s and gave it to that piece of shit Arthur Miller in their divorce. She also overpaid all her staff and was generally too generous.

If she had lived she should have got good financial advice. She got rehired for Something's Got To Give at a much better salary of €500,000 and a second picture deal at the same price.

by Anonymousreply 292Last Thursday at 8:49 AM

[quote]r288 The dress...she probably gained weight and couldn't fit through the armholes and still zip it up.

No, it’s that she’d LOST weight... and she suddenly felt the plain, snug, high necked design (R139) made her look less buxom.

This could not be allowed.

by Anonymousreply 293Last Thursday at 9:25 AM

This article says Norman Norell was the first designer to do culottes.

A little [italic]respect!

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by Anonymousreply 294Last Thursday at 9:36 AM

Marilyn Monroe's career was finished after the debacle of "Something's Got To Give." So what if she was being re-hired, so what if she had offer? She couldn't WORK. She was hours late coming to the set or didn't show up at all. When she did show up she couldn't remember her lines. She was getting long in the tooth for being a sex symbol. Towards the end of her life her career was evaporating. Her worshipful biographer Donald Spoto said her life was "something good, in progress" but she was plainly doomed. It was her destiny to die an early death.

by Anonymousreply 295Last Thursday at 9:41 AM

This blog entry mentions the alteration:

[quote] A stylist in her own right: Monroe’s eye for fashion was innate. She often adapted dresses to suit her shape, as well as to enhance her effervescent persona. After choosing an emerald green Norman Norell dress for the 1962 Golden Globes, she had a halter-neck strap attached to give her silhouette maximum impact.

SUCK it, disbelievers!

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by Anonymousreply 296Last Thursday at 9:41 AM

R295 wise up. She had 5 good years ahead. Instead of wasting good movies like The Apartment and Irma La Douce on ferret face Shitley Maclaine, Marilyn should have had first dibs.

by Anonymousreply 297Last Thursday at 10:15 AM

You're the one who needs to "wise up", R297. Marilyn was a mess towards the end of her life and it only would have gotten worse. And she would have been terribly miscast as Fran Kubelik in "The Apartment." She would have not been convincing in that role of the vulnerable, unlucky in love Fran. Her married boss kept stringing her along, but with Marilyn Monroe in the role that wouldn't have seemed plausible. A sexpot like her, surely the boss would have dumped his wife in one hot minute to be with the blonde, big bosomed Marilyn/Fran. She might have been good as the expert hooker Irma La Douce but if Billy Wilder had to direct her again it probably would have killed him.

Marilyn Monroe hated the idea of growing old. I think she would have killed herself rather than grow old. And she did, probably not intentionally, though. But it would have happened sooner or later.

by Anonymousreply 298Last Thursday at 10:48 AM

I don’t think that Monroe was finished as an actress, or a type. She was very popular and gifted. I believe the deeper problem was she was basically finished as a person.

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by Anonymousreply 299Last Thursday at 11:21 AM

"[R295] wise up. She had 5 good years ahead. Instead of wasting good movies like The Apartment and Irma La Douce on ferret face Shitley Maclaine, Marilyn should have had first dibs."

Marilyn was 36 when she died and she'd have been lucky to have three more good years. Maclaine was still in her twenties when Marilyn died and believe me age counts when casting sexy-lady roles, and she showed up on time, knew her lines, had a good box-office record, and didn't live in the Valley of the Dolls. Yes, Marilyn may have been the more interesting actor and her work is much more appreciated at this late date, that doesn't mean the studio moneymen cared about Monroe's more luminous presence. If Marilyn had lived, MacLaine probably would have eclipsed her at the studio, and taken all the good scripts as Marilyn was given a few sex farces, and the sure and certain knowledge that they'd drop her with the first big flop or her 40th birthday, whichever came first.

No, if Marilyn had lived, I doubt she'd have gotten the chance to do any more interesting work, unless she left Hollywood, straightened herself out, and returned as a mature woman.

by Anonymousreply 300Last Thursday at 5:39 PM

[quote]r300 No, if Marilyn had lived, I doubt she'd have gotten the chance to do any more interesting work, unless she left Hollywood, straightened herself out, and returned as a mature woman.

Right. And that would have been an impossibility for her. She was artistically/culturally capable of more, but not mentally/physically.

by Anonymousreply 301Last Thursday at 5:58 PM

No, R301, I think that if she'd gotten away from Hollywood, and her horrible psychiatrist and leech friends and the studio's pressure to make money and keep her youthful looks ... there was a chance she could have stabilized somewhat. Not to the point of turning into a frau or a Stepford Wife or anything, but enough to go on living and maybe find a friend, lover, or husband who'd act as a cargiver/enabler.

If she'd had a few years of peace, support, and a healthier lifestyles featuring nourishing meals and exercise instead of pills, then maybe when she ran out of money she'd have been able to do a bit of acting without having a fucking breakdown every time she needed to come out of her trailer and do her job.

by Anonymousreply 302Last Thursday at 6:22 PM

Poor Marilyn! She always seemed to hook up with people who were awful for her; Natasha Lytess, Yves Montand, Lee and Paula Strasberg, Ralph Greenson. She had such rotten luck.

by Anonymousreply 303Last Thursday at 6:31 PM

[quote]R302 I think that if she'd gotten away from Hollywood, and her horrible psychiatrist and leech friends and the studio's pressure to make money and keep her youthful looks ... there was a chance she could have stabilized somewhat.

And how exactly would she have been capable of breaking free from all she knew? Is that really realistic?

Besides which, her therapist and friends were of her own choosing. She would have picked the same types all over again.

by Anonymousreply 304Last Thursday at 6:52 PM

[quote]R303 Poor Marilyn! She always seemed to hook up with people who were awful for her; Natasha Lytess...Lee and Paula Strasberg,...

They were good at helping her with her acting, which is what she went to them for. The problem was that MM could not keep a professional distance.

They were relatively stable people who could maintain functional lives. She was not.

by Anonymousreply 305Last Thursday at 6:59 PM

Documentary about the unfinished 1962 Marilyn's movie, "Something's Got To Give".

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 306Last Thursday at 8:50 PM

OP's story is so fake. So obviously fake. But people here eat this garbage up with no critical thinking. Gossip about long dead celebrities, especially when coming from people like this - the servants, the help, rather than a partner, a relative, or a co-worker of equal ranking - should be doubted for what they generally are, namely, attempts to generate interest in people who see themselves as forgotten.

by Anonymousreply 307Last Thursday at 9:04 PM

And of course, the story comes from the male hair stylist, ie, the gay guy. Gay guys love stories like those, that are rich in shock value and make sex- or -genitalia-related references. Fake!!!

by Anonymousreply 308Last Thursday at 9:06 PM

Just imagine Marilyn as Mrs. Robinson! "Benjamin, did you get a room?"

by Anonymousreply 309Last Friday at 12:06 AM

Marilyn would still looked stunning for another 10-12 years.

by Anonymousreply 310Last Friday at 3:36 AM

[quote]r309 Just imagine Marilyn as Mrs. Robinson! "Benjamin, did you get a room?"

A problem was that Monroe had a very specific way of seeing herself. Her whole persona had become very breathily girlish... even more so than when she was younger. For instance, she's pretty natural and straightforward in "Niagara" (1953) and "Clash by Night" (1952) but as time wore on she dug herself deeper and deeper into that cooing damsal trench she became so famous for.

I think Pauline Kael said she might have classed herself up for something like "Breakfast at Tiffany's", "Bonnie & Clyde," "Period of Adjustment," or the mom role in "Lord Love a Duck," but as she aged her range was getting narrower, not broader. This was probably based on her deepening insecurities, and she was clinging to what she knew.

On the other hand, she was reportedly riveting in scenes from "A Streetcar Named Desire" and "Anna Christie" at the Actors Studio...so who knows? Maybe with help she could have transitioned into parts that were more demanding, and different.

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by Anonymousreply 311Last Friday at 9:39 AM

[quote]r307 Gossip about long dead celebrities, especially when coming from people like this - the servants, the help, rather than a partner, a relative, or a co-worker of equal ranking - should be doubted

You think someone's FAMILY or ex partner is an unbiased source, and going to tell the truth?? It's the people on the sidelines who see it all, and have less to lose by spilling the beans.

by Anonymousreply 312Last Friday at 9:43 AM

R307, someone already posted photos way up early in the thread that show this wasn't likely true, and we've had long running jokes about the obvious lies from Lena and the maid, so I don't know what you're grousing about.

The people who bitch about Datalounge being a gossip forum are just bizarre to me. Where exactly do you think you are?

by Anonymousreply 313Last Friday at 9:47 AM

The comments about "Our Lena" on this thread are some of the funniest comments I've read on here in ages. That aside I do believe she walked in on Marilyn bleaching down below. It's too random for her to conceive.

The story that disturbs me most and is hopefully just an urban legend is the mortuary worker who sneaked his drunken friends in to desecrate her body.

by Anonymousreply 314Last Friday at 10:02 AM

Some of the comments here about Monroe are typical of the way many enablers think about borderlines. They are pure and pristine and nothing is ever their fault. It was Joe DiMaggios' fault, Arthur Millers', her psychiatrists, the Strasbergs, ....but never Marilyns.

by Anonymousreply 315Last Friday at 11:38 AM

Yes, every dysfunctional relationship Marilyn had with other people had one thing in common--Marilyn.

by Anonymousreply 316Last Friday at 11:57 AM

I think it would be a small miracle if they got her looking like R103 after what a number that autopsy did on her looks.

by Anonymousreply 317Last Friday at 12:07 PM

R315 R316 no one is denying Marilyn was unwell but all of those people aside from Joe and to an extent Arthur (towards the end) enabled her descent into more severe mental illness. All of them benefited from MM a great deal, either financially or otherwise.

She wasn't a well woman and I don't blame her for her perceived bad behaviour.

Her Doctors, her idols and mentors The Strasbergs or her "closest friends" never tried to reign her in. They kept pouring poison in her ear, telling her that people who complained about her did not understand or appreciate her creative genius.

by Anonymousreply 318Last Friday at 12:51 PM

Okay, bitches. I am about to do a lot of cutting and pasting for you (yes, YOU!) (bitches!) to post most of Simone Signoret's chapter on Monroe from her autobiography "Nostalgia Isn't What It Used To Be". These excerpts appeared in the New York Times appeared on 05/07/1978

I undertake this Herculean task because the Times article is behind a paywall.

You're welcome. Bitches.

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[bold]“Marilyn Without Makeup” Simone Signoret - Excerpt from autobiography, New York Times, 05/07/1978[/bold]

[italic]They made international headlines in 1960: Marilyn Monroe was reported to have had an offscreen as well as onscreen affair with French star Yves Montand during the filming of “Let's Make Love.” And, for a while, the press followed every detail in the lives of “the blond heartbreaker” and “the moody dark man,” and speculated about the effect of the affair on “the bookworm” (Marilyn's husband, Arthur Miller) and Montand's “admirable wife” (Simone Signoret). But what few people knew was that for months during the early part of the shooting, when they lived at the Beverly Hills Hotel, the four had developed a warm, supportive friendship. It is this period that Simone Signoret recalls in the following excerpt from her autobiography, “Nostalgia Isn't What It Used To Be.” [/italic]

One evening in August 1962, Montand phoned me in Toulouse, from Paris. I was having dinner with Costa‐Gavras and Claude Pinoteau. I came back to the table and told them, “Marilyn is dead.”

I was very sad. But I wasn't surprised.

A half‐hour later, the hotel manager told me that he had just refused to rent rooms to journalists from Paris who had asked him where I could be found. I am grateful to this gentleman. He helped me to avoid shining the limelight on an incident that the press had unmercifully hammered away at two years earlier.

That same press had latched on to the four of us ‐ Marilyn, Montand, Miller and myself ‐ in order to make us play parts we had never learned in a play we hadn't read. It's a pity that they never saw us live as we did for four months. They knew nothing about the quiet lives of the four people in Bungalows No. 20 and 21. If they had, they would have seen nothing resembling the blond heartbreaker, or the moody dark man, or the bookworm, or the admirable wife standing on her dignity, which were the labels they pasted on us.

And it's a pity, too, that Arthur Miller, of whom I was very fond, wrote “After the Fall.” After her death.

I am not Norman Mailer: I'm going to talk about somebody I knew. Not about a myth; not about a “poster.” I'm going to talk about my neighbor across the hall, who was fond of her neighbor across the hall; about two women who lived together as neighbors, as one does in any apartment house anywhere.

Montand usually came back from the studio first. After a shower, he closeted himself in his room and, for at least an hour before dinner, furiously attacked the text he had to learn for the next day, often in the company of his coach, come to watch over his accent and tonic emphases.

(CONT'D)

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by Anonymousreply 319Last Friday at 1:09 PM

(SIGNORET, CONT'D)

When Marilyn arrived, she generally found Arthur and me either at their place or at ours; it was the time of day when I told Arthur about what I had done. We drank our Scotches and I made my daily report, or else he told tales about the recent and not‐so‐recent past of his country, which he knew so well and I knew so little.

Still in her makeup, Marilyn would say, “I'll just take a bath and I'll be with you.” She would reappear wearing a blue polka‐dotted rayon dressing gown. Without makeup or false eyelashes, her feet bare, she looked like the most beautiful peasant girl imaginable from the Ile‐de‐France, as the type has been celebrated for centuries.

The famous lock of hair that flopped onto her forehead had disappeared; that puffed‐up, sophisticated phenomenon was the result of a hairdresser's vigorous teasing between takes. Now her hair was brushed back, and her widow's peak appeared.

It was a very pretty widow's peak, which divided her forehead neatly in half. But she detested it, despised it; it was her personal enemy. She hated it because, curiously, the roots of that hair, fluffy as the hair of a small child, didn't take the platinum dye as well as the rest of the hair on her blond head. The lock that fell over her eye so casually and so accidentally was produced by all that teasing, and it was a shield protecting those darker roots, which might be seen when the camera came in for close‐ups.

She explained it all to me at the very beginning of our neighborly relations. She had also said, “Look, they all think I've got beautiful long legs; I have knobby knees and my legs are too short.” That was hardly true when she was in her dressing gown, bought at a local Woolworth's, and it was completely untrue as soon as she was in her “Marilyn” get‐up. I saw her in her “Marilyn” get‐up only three times in four months. Once was at a monster cocktail party given by Spyros Skouras (then president of 20th‐Century Fox); once was the only time the four of us went out for dinner; and the last time was when she went out to receive the Golden Globe - the only artistic recognition Hollywood ever gave her.

(CONT'D)

by Anonymousreply 320Last Friday at 1:10 PM

(SIGNORET, CONT'D)

In order to have platinum hair, and to kill her enemy the widow's peak, she sent for, and paid for, a very old lady who came all the way from San Diego. This old lady had once worked for Metro‐Goldwyn‐Mayer, and she now lived in retirement. She had been responsible for the platinum head of Jean Harlow throughout her short career - or so she said.

Which is why every Friday evening, as she left us, Marilyn said, “See you in the kitchen tomorrow at 11.” Every Saturday morning, the late Jean Harlow's hair colorist boarded her plane in San Diego and arrived in Los Angeles, where Marilyn's car waited for her at the airport and brought her to our kitchen, or rather the kitchenette of Bungalow No. 21.

Before allowing her to remove the bottles from her old carrying bag, Marilyn plied her with food from a buffet - a combination of brunch and cocktail‐party ingredients - she had carefully prepared. The old lady indulged with gusto.

Marilyn knocked on my door, telling me to bring my towels, and the hair‐dyeing party began.

The old lady then began to relive her life. While the two of us blonded, she told about the color she had concocted for Jean Harlow's head 30 years earlier, which had been the secret of her success. Her tales were full of silk dresses, white foxes, lamé shoes and parties. They were also full of silences—for she preferred not to tell everything she might have told. Her stories always ended with the funeral of the “platinum‐blond bombshell.'. . . It amused me enormously to have my hair tinted by the lady who pretended to have created the myth who was splashed across the newspaper pages of my adolescence. But it didn't amuse my neighbor. It was no accident that she had tracked down the address of this retired lady. She believed in her. She liked her and respected her. She was perfectly willing to pay for her round trips from the Mexican border, her limousine rides and her caviar. It was a kind of association through a third person between the Blonde Mark 1 and the Blonde she turned into. And in retrospect I think it was also a hand stretched out to someone who had been forgotten. . . .

Once or twice, the twin kitchenettes were actually used as kitchens. Then Marilyn and I played at cooking. I remember a spaghetti party, artistically cooked up by Marilyn and me, thanks to sciences we had learned from in‐laws: she from the DiMaggios and I from the Livis. . . .

Marilyn had another dressing gown, something in long crimson velvet. Miller had given it to her for New Year's Day in 1960. Whenever she wore it instead of the little blue synthetic‐silk peignoir, she talked about it the way others talked about the wild minks they had found in their Christmas stockings. Whenever she wore it, she also wore a little amber necklace, either around her neck or in her hair like a tiara. It was the only jewelry I ever saw her wear, outside of a pair of enormous paste earrings.

This is what Marilyn wore in Bungalow No. 21, and she hardly ever left her apartment except to go to work very early in the morning, coming back as soon as her work was over. On Saturdays and Sundays she never budged.

(CONT'D)

by Anonymousreply 321Last Friday at 1:12 PM

(SIGNORET, CONT'D)

She left to go to a job she apparently didn't like very much. She didn't like it very much because there had been a whole succession of people in her life who had taken pains to explain to her that she was anything but an actress. They had made her believe that without them she was incapable of saying, “It's going to rain,” and have it ring true in any way. She had ended up believing them. They cost her a fortune, which she paid willingly.

She also paid for having been a starlet in a town that had forked out an enormous chunk of capital to turn her into a star. They had thought that the starlet Marilyn was cute. They detested her for becoming Monroe. They were unkind to her, which is why she preferred to stay at home.

But there was something else too. For that I must go back to my chats with my neighbor, Arthur Miller.

He told the story superbly: How, in 1955, she'd extricated him from the anti‐McCarthyite catacombs where he'd been driven. How, incognito, she'd accompanied him to Washington, where he had been summoned by the House Un‐American Activities Committee. How she'd taken refuge at his lawyer's office; how the press had got wind of the Blonde in town and had besieged the lawyer's office building. How she'd taken her time (she needed three full hours; I know; I lived through these sessions) to transform herself into “Marilyn,” and appear as such before the 300 hungry sharks, living up to her legend. Simpering and sighing.

And maintained the simpering and sighing on the sidewalk of that Washington street. She asked them by what right had they taken the law into their own hands to force her to account for the love of the man she loved. If she loved him it was because he was a respectable, good and honest man, and therefore why was he at that very moment summoned to play the part of an accused man and face a tribunal of fascist clowns? . . .

Following the Washington caper, Spyros Skouras took in hand the career of “the blond bombshell” who had made her way out of her role of a prefabricated object by dint of expensive publicity. It was explained to her that if she continued to love Miller publicly, this same expensive publicity machinery would be set in motion to destroy all it had constructed.

Marilyn's answer to the exGreek shepherd was: “Go ahead and destroy me. . . .”

The ex‐shepherd considered the reply of the blond bombshell. Finally, he decided to continue betting on her. Arthur Miller got his passport back, and his rights as a Citizen. He retrieved them the honorable way. Nobody asked him to denounce anyone anymore - which he wouldn't have done anyway! . . .

She irritated me too, Marilyn. It was a bit tedious to listen to her tell about how happy and inspired she had been during the months when she made that series of photographs with Richard Avedon [in 1958]. The series was, indeed, remarkable; they were pictures of her made up to impersonate all the big stars of the past. But listening to her, you'd believe the only satisfaction as an actress she had ever felt was during those disguises, when she suddenly turned into Lillian Russell, Marlene, Clara Bow and Harlow. She talked about these photography sessions the way other actors talked about their films.

She seemed to have no other happy professional memories. None of those moments of uproarious giggles among pals, none of those practical jokes, none of the noisy hugs and kisses after a scene when everyone knows all have acted well together. All these things were unknown to her.

(CONT'D)

by Anonymousreply 322Last Friday at 1:13 PM

(SIGNORET, CONT'D)

She made me tell her my stories, which were neither more nor less original, comic or emotional than any actress’ stories in any country in the world. Basically, they're stories of marvelous complicity, the kind children have in their early school years.

Possibly she encountered that complicity for the first time in her life when she filmed with Montand, and that would explain a great many of the things that happened after. . . .

One evening, while Montand was in his room going over his lines for the next day, she cooked up one of her tricks for us ‐ it was the only time.

Miller was in Ireland with John Huston for a discussion of “The Misfits.” He had asked us to take care of Marilyn. She and I talked late that evening. Late for Hollywood. Too late for her, since she had to get up at 5. . . .

At about 10 the next morning, Montand phoned me from the studio. She wasn't there. At around 8 the Fox studio had started telephoning the Beverly Hills Hotel. The switchboard hadn't been able to get an answer out of Bungalow 21. The studio had tried at least 20 times; no reply.

Now it was 10 o'clock and they were scared; everyone at the studio was scared.

I went over and knocked on the door across the hall. First I knocked, then I banged, like a policeman or fireman. Then I began shouting, at the front door and then at the back door. When there was no sound whatsoever in reply, I was scared.

My pal, the switchboard girl, reassured me. She told me that indeed Bungalow 21 did not reply, but Bungalow 21 had made a phone call that morning.

I called Montand at Fox. Forty‐five minutes later he was back at the house. A day's work would be lost if Marilyn continued to lie low.

So, with a little help from me with the English, Montand wrote a note that ran more or less as follows: “You can do whatever you like to Spyros Skouras and the Fox studio and all the producers in town, if that's what you want. But next time you decide to hang around too late listening to my wife tell you stories instead of going to bed, because you've already decided not to get up the next morning and go to the studio, please tell me! Don't leave me to work for hours on end on a scene you've already decided not to do the next day. I'm not the enemy, I'm your pal. And capricious little girls never amused me. Best, Yves.”

We opened our door silently, stole across the hall in bare feet and slid the letter under the door opposite, making quite sure to leave half of it outside where we could see it. Then we went back, but we didn't close our door. We watched in silence. In a short time the message slid under the door and disappeared, in slow motion, millimeter by millimeter, as though the person behind the door were taking precautions, like the carriers of nitroglycerin in “The Wages of Fear.”

We closed our door as silently as we had opened it and waited for the reply.

There was none. . . .

(CONT'D)

by Anonymousreply 323Last Friday at 1:14 PM

(SIGNORET, CONT'D)

At around 11 that evening, the phone rang. We were already in bed. “It's Mr. Miller, from Dublin,” the switchboard girl said.

“I'm sorry if you were asleep, but now that you're awake, please do me a favor and go knock on Marilyn's door. She's there, she's told me all about it, she doesn't know what to do. She's ashamed.”

So I got up, went across the hall and knocked. Suddenly I had in my arms a weeping girl who kept saying, “I'm bad, I'm bad, I'm bad. I won't do it again. I promise!” All this happened in the middle of the hall. Montand, in his dressing gown, patted her head, saying “O.K., O.K.; try to be on time tomorrow morning.”. .

All this happened long before my nomination for the Oscar [as best actress, in “Room at the Top”]. But it was already in the air, and that delighted Marilyn. Despite all the movies she had appeared in (she must have relived all those parts, tucked away in her little corner), she had never been honored with even a nomination. Yet she was always the first to bring me the little clippings she had read in the “bibles” (Daily Variety and The Hollywood Reporter) that automatically arrived with her breakfast tray.

As they always came with my breakfast tray too, I noticed that every time I was celebrated as a foreign “diva” (the publicity machine for “Room at the Top” was supplying the material), strangely the piece always included some barb at her. They would quote her gaffes in public, or an inappropriate remark she had made in some fashionable restaurant. They were all invented. She couldn't have made a gaffe in public; she almost never went out. And as for fashionable restaurants, it had been a long time since she had set foot in one – with the exception of the one time the four of us went out together, rather pompously, as people from the provinces go out for an evening to Maxim's, and for that occasion she had put on all her “Marilyn” war paint.

I mention that she was the first to bring me those clippings from the local “bibles,” because an actor's strike was declared that concerned “residual” rights, claimed by actors when films made years earlier for cinema distribution were shown on television.

All of Hollywood was on strike. . . . That included Gary Cooper and Gregory Peck, the newly arrived Paul Newman, Elizabeth Taylor, Debbie Reynolds, Marilyn and all the others. . .

The strike went on and on. Arthur had already been back from Dublin for quite some time when he decided that he and Marilyn would go to New York and wait for the negotiations between the television companies and the union to be concluded. I had just been nominated, and they were pleased for me. Marilyn was pleased, but also probably a little hurt. “It's all quite fair,” she said, but she probably thought that it wasn't totally so.

(CONT'D)

by Anonymousreply 324Last Friday at 1:16 PM

(SIGNORET, CONT'D)

The morning they left, the four of us kissed in the hall, and then Montand and I went out on the living‐room balcony to wave ciao and a bientet. Marilyn turned and called to me, “Good luck! I know! I know you're going to get it!” Then she ran to catch up with Arthur on the garden path. She had put on high heels and her white mink coat; it had a big unattractive collar that she always meant to have altered. That's my last image of her. I never saw her alive again.

I've described here the woman I knew, and that's surely the same woman who went back to work after the strike was over.

But I was not there. I was honoring an old contract that had been delayed several times. I was in Italy making “Adua e le compagne” ['Adua and Her Friends']. It wasn't a masterpiece, but I'd be a dirty hypocrite if I said that I was the lady gnawing her nails because she was away from her husband, whom she had left in Bungalow No. 20, next to Bungalow No. 21.

I was thoroughly enjoying the Roman spring and my return to Europe and my dinners with the film crew in the old tranone. I spent three delicious months in Rome. . . and that keeps me, even today, from judging what may have happened during my weeks in Rome and Miller's weeks in New York between a man, my husband, and a woman, my pal, who were working together, living under the same roof, and consequently sharing their solitudes, their fears, their moods and their recollections of childhood poverty.

Therefore, allow me to reroute any fans of “slices of life” to the newspapers of that period. The press undertook to transform into an “event” one of those stories that can occur in any enterprise, big or small, any apartment house, big or small. . . .

When the story isn't “in the papers,” the heroes of the drama read judgment or complicity or disapproval in the faces of the people they meet in the cafeteria, or on the stairs of their building. And most of the time they're free to decide themselves what they‘re going to do with this story which is their personal business. . . .

But when it is “in the paper” and the “scoop” begins to go the rounds of the rotary presses, then your nice little story, or your beautiful story, or even your great story, is doomed. Then it's no longer yours, that of your partner and you, or even that of your husband or your wife. It's now in the hands of the buyers of newspapers. And consequently it becomes the “business” of the paper merchants.

It's sad. And abysmally stupid.

by Anonymousreply 325Last Friday at 1:18 PM

(SIGNORET, CONT'D)

I would probably not have gone back over this 17‐year‐old mess if very recently, and more and more frequently, certain historiographers who believe themselves at least in part sociologists - and who aren't completely disinterested - hadn't been publishing fat books devoted to the premature death of that young woman whom nobody took seriously while she was alive. Inevitably there comes the chapter that deals with us, and then those old quotes surface again, like the one about Marilyn's “schoolgirl crush on me” attributed to Montand. It can't be true, if for no other reason than that its grammatical form and its difficulty of pronunciation would have cost Montand a week's hard work - if indeed he had ever pronounced those words to Hedda Hopper, as she claimed he did. . .

And then there are those psychological studies. People talking about Marilyn. Among them are a few people she loved and who loved her. Unfortunately, there are also quotes from people who hated her. I knew about those people during that happy time in Bungalows No. 20 and 21. But she never knew about it.

Nor will she ever know my sadness on that August day in 1962.

She never knew how thoroughly I had understood the story that was no one's business but ours, the four of us. Too many people were concerned with it during troubled times when many more important things were happening.

She's gone without ever knowing that I never stopped wearing the champagne‐colored silk scarf she'd lent me one day when I was being photographed. It went well with what I was wearing; so well that she made me a present of it. It's a bit frayed now, but if I fold it carefully, that doesn't show.

(END)

by Anonymousreply 326Last Friday at 1:19 PM

R319 R320 R321 R322 R323 R324 R325 R325 ahh

by Anonymousreply 327Last Friday at 1:34 PM
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by Anonymousreply 328Last Friday at 1:50 PM

That's a great excerpt from Signoret's book, thanks for posting it R319.

by Anonymousreply 329Last Friday at 3:22 PM

"Some of the comments here about Monroe are typical of the way many enablers think about borderlines."

More like the way a straight man thinks about a woman he wants to fuck. Straight men literally don't care if a woman is mentally ill or batshit and dangerous, as long as he's horny!

And unfortunately, much of the pop-culture narrative about Monroe has been driven by clueless straight men like Normal Mailer, horndogs who saw a fuckable woman and built rescue fantasies around her persona, and who've pushed the "poor waif" story and ignored all the information about her mental illnesses.

by Anonymousreply 330Last Friday at 6:50 PM

Marilyn homage by Elton John...a sensitive tribute to a sensitive soul.

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by Anonymousreply 331Last Friday at 8:07 PM

I loved "Candle In The Wind" the Elton John song about Marilyn. And then it got reworked into "Goodbye, England's Rose", an homage to that nutjob Princess Diana. Then it made me want to gag.

by Anonymousreply 332Last Saturday at 11:06 AM

The choice was inspired, Elter couldn't write something so quick when he was in deep mourning

by Anonymousreply 333Last Sunday at 12:05 PM

The choice was inspired, Elter couldn't write something so quick when he was in deep mourning

by Anonymousreply 334Last Sunday at 12:05 PM

I loved "Candle In The Wind" the Elton John song about Marilyn. And then it got reworked into "Goodbye, England's Rose", an homage to that nutjob Princess Diana. Then it made me want to gag.

sweetie, MM was a bigger nut job than Diana ever was, a drug addict, homewrecker and a slut as well

by Anonymousreply 335Last Sunday at 3:23 PM

The choice was inspired, Elter couldn't write something so quick when he was in deep mourning

Taupin wrote the lyrics, always has done

by Anonymousreply 336Last Sunday at 3:25 PM

R336 I meant he couldn't write brand new music so they reused an old song.

by Anonymousreply 337Last Monday at 4:34 AM

Sorry, I skipped all the Simone reading. I'll probably get an F in this class.

[quote]A problem was that Monroe had a very specific way of seeing herself. Her whole persona had become very breathily girlish... even more so than when she was younger. For instance, she's pretty natural and straightforward in "Niagara" (1953) and "Clash by Night" (1952) but as time wore on she dug herself deeper and deeper into that cooing damsal trench she became so famous for.

Actually, there are subtle differences in all her roles. She different in Bus Stop from The Seven Year Itch. Different in How To Marry A Millionaire from River No Return. Completely different in Some Like It Hot and The Misfits.

by Anonymousreply 338Last Monday at 6:46 PM

^And frankly, the most natural in voice and manner in The Prince and the Showgirl.

by Anonymousreply 339Last Monday at 7:09 PM

I think she would have been perfect in Breakfast At Tiffany's. Audrey Hepburn was great. But I can hear Marilyn saying a lot of the lines, though, and I can picture her having been Lulu Mae before she was Holly.

by Anonymousreply 34018 hours ago

I agree MM should have been cast in "Breakfast At Tiffany's" instead of shooting the forgettable "Let's Make Love".

It could just maybe have changed the course of her life... No affair with Montland, critical acclaim and possibly an Oscar plus the respect she craved, better movie roles offered...

Who knows?

by Anonymousreply 34117 hours ago

[quote]instead of shooting the forgettable "Let's Make Love".

Monroe was so big for LML had they cast her instead of Hepburn, Capote should've retitled it "Breakfast, Lunch AND Dinner at Tiffany's."

by Anonymousreply 34216 hours ago

So why wasn't Marilyn cast in "BaT"?

Was it because she was under contract to the wrong studio? Was it because Hepburn was a bigger box-office draw? Was it because Hepburn showed up sober, on time, and prepared, instead of doubling the cost of the film because she couldn't stand to come out of her trailer and do her fucking job?

by Anonymousreply 34315 hours ago
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