How the Reagans fooled America. The film I've been waiting for. What took it so long?

"Washed up grade B actor."

Reagan started the whole new-right movement with massive deregulation and massive tax cuts that turned America into a third-world country. And laid the groundwork for the racist neo-fascists that resulted in Ttump getting the office.

Will they say Nancy gave Frank Sinatra a blow job?

At least half an episode should be dedicated Nancy's blowjobs.

[quote] Nancy Reagan, exercised a then-unprecedented degree of control over how they were seen[] ...

Sounds interesting, OP. What a change compared to the past 4 years. A POTUS who Tweets 24/7, unfiltered and racist, misspellings ("Poles" for polls). First Lady (Be Best) who appears semi-literate, naked pictures not scrubbed from the internet.

Jackie Kennedy invented "Camelot" as well. The Reagans were not the first to create a myth.

[quote]At least half an episode should be dedicated Nancy's blowjobs.

Only if each episode lasts about a month.

I was a teenager when Reagan was elected, and my uncle said to me "Ronald Wilson Reagan, each name with 6 letters, 666..."

He was right.

R7 That is funny. Especially since the house they purchased after he left office had the house number 666 and they petitioned the city to change the number. It certainly was the appropriate address for them and the city should have refused. I believe it was Bel Air or Beverly Hills.

R5, Camelot was invented AFTER JFK's assassination; he was only president for a little over 2 1/2 years. The Reagan myth was invented DURING his disastrous eight year presidency.

We have the proliferation of cable networks thanks to Reagan

So we have Reagan to thank for Andy Cohen and the "Housewives" franchise

And the Cher infomercials.

My mother used to call him, "The Amazing TV President"

I was a kid during the Reagan years, and I only remember that he and Nancy seemed to be completely adored by the media. I was raised to think he was some great president, only later did I understand it was all a crock of shit.

R10, infomercials - all of them, all day and night - because of Reagan deregulations.

Anyone old enough to remember being able to handle raw chicken without fear of salmonella? Reagan deregulation gave us contaminated chicken.

I suspect this film will miss the real truth. First, Reagan would not have done most of this without Nancy. She saw him, she wanted him and she converted him. She got him out of acting and PR for businesses like GE, and into politics. She converted him to far right conservatism, teaching him that they deserve power and wealth because God made them special. His acting skills, of course, allowed him to do great media, looking more charismatic and natural than his opponents.

The other thing it will miss is the fault of the media in this. Reporters and editors, while considering themselves liberal and well-informed (the cool kids), have always lamented we did not have a monarchy like England. Then along came Ronnie with his smooth manly style and Nancy, with her designer clothing and obsession with the appearance of everything. Even while covering some of the politics, the underlying focus and a lot of free image making was done by the media, newspapers, magazines and television. They crowned the Reagans king and queen. Even the children, trying to expose Nancy (and their father) for the money-grubbing selfish social climbers they were, were just brushed aside. MSM did with the Reagans what they did with Trump--lots of air time and splashy photos and anecdotes of greatness, while excusing his attempts to bankrupt the country and Iran Contra and a lot of other things.

We speak of 3 branches of government and each holds the other in check, per the Constitution. The press, also in the Constitution, is pretty much unchecked. Add plenty of power via the airwaves and social medial, control of the press by businesses where profits are the most important thing, and you have an element that has the power to pretty much refashion the landscape at will. The far Right started building on this in the 70's, but the MSM let it happen. And still takes little responsibility for these outcomes.

The real story here is not the Reagans, or who will be the next. It is the media's responsibility in anointing these people and persuading the public that they deserve the power they will be given if they win.

They may have sucked but they still look like angels next to the Trumps.

^ I can tell you're under 30

Nancy made every important decision with the advice of her astrologer, Joan Quigley.

NOT the fucking bible? Why? Because they were evil, hypocritical whores like every other fucking repukeitagain.

R13 R15 The east coast based political media is astoundingly shallow, despite it's reputation for being run by wonky egghead types. Their obssession with superficial charm and charisma in politicians has been a significant aspect in the lopsided coverage over the last few decades. They melt like smitten schoolgirls the minute a rich republican winks at them. But if a Democrat deigns to bore them with speeches about policy and serious subjects their response is bitchy sneering.

R16 Reagan certainly wasn't as vulgar as Trump but his election was in some ways the beginning of the end. He was the one who helped agressively pushed the idea of the deserving and Noble rich vs the scumbag and entitled poor. That school of thought never went away.

Reagan did away with the mental institutions, paving the way for the mass mental illness known as Trumpism.

^ also hundreds of thousands of homeless roaming the streets.

There’s certainly nothing new in the comments on DL about Reagan. At least try to think of something new to say like the series wants to do, instead of reposting the same tired comments on any thread mentioning Reagan.

[quote] How the Reagans fooled America.

So Nancy didn’t give the best blowjobs in Hollywood?

The New York Times and many other east coast media sources were on Reagan's ass from the beginning. There was no suck-up, R19.

Reagan was an absolute disaster, and we're still dealing with the fallout 40 years later.

I remember reading, starting in the '60s, about how Nancy was the one who converted him in his far-right politics. Yet, as First Lady, to her credit, she was the one who pushed him to seek peace with Gorbachev.

I know so many cunts male and female who would open WIDE all their holes just to let Ronny inside them.

[quote]They may have sucked but they still look like angels next to the Trumps.

You're an idiot. And on a gay website spouting this stupidity.

Ever read of something called AIDS?

[quote] I only remember that he and Nancy seemed to be completely adored by the media.

Yeah, the media really do have a long tradition of getting it right, ;)

R27, Nancy bragged about being the moderate one on Larry King in the late 1980s........I believe she didn't think the right-wing conservatism would go so far and was trying to save face. Fuck both of them.

When Reagan was running the first time my grandfather said if he wins an evil will happen to this country that we will never get away from. Grandpa was so right. He died in October 1984 and he never got to vote against Reagan a second time, which broke his heart.

.......

This starts on Sunday.

I look back on the 1980s and how in lots of ways, images, styles and pop-culture reunions and personality -- especially the early part of the decade after Reagan was first elected President -- they really were a period that reflected the 1950s. Think "Peggy Sue Got Married." I really do believe this was a result of the coming of the Reagan Era. You can speculate this could have had to do with whatever influence Nancy Reagan had on her husband's and his Presidency's image and legacy; but regardless I feel that the Reagans did influence that era's obsession with white-breadness, being over-the-top and "Dynasty" or Wall Street-filthy rich, the whole Yuppie trend and the like, and so on.

[quote] infomercials - all of them, all day and night - because of Reagan deregulations.

Reagan gave us Hazel?

I have always said, the Republicans are masters of manipulating the Media. The image. THe propaganda. They fail in every other way.

He wore “experimental” contact lenses on his TV show. So you all have him to thank!

They never fooled my parents or my grandparents.

CUNTS !!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

OMFG

just watched part I and I recommend it really. As a millennial I was only a baby during the Reagan era so there's a lot I didn't know.

Reagan was a fucking fraud!

He started out as a liberal hollywood actor and even became president of the Screen Actors Guild. He never served in the army, only reserve but stayed in the US. He decided to act in lots of war movies to give himself the image of a patriot. Then when his acting career dried up he ended up as a shill for GE.

Between his mother's increasing religious involvement, Nancy's father-in-law being a psycho right wing bigot and the job at GE, Reagan switched over to the right wing side. GE built him a house and used him to advertise it as part of his job. He became a big corporations whore for the rest of his life, advocating for them in his political career.

He was a surrogate for Goldwater and super rich right wing sponsors were impressed by Reagan's ability to give speeches so they decided to fund his campaign for California governor. Since his acting career was never A-list and had fizzled out and he got fired from GE , the Reagans were not rich. At the time he started his campaign for California governor, Nancy would call their super rich donor friends crying they didn't have money to afford everything to keep up the appearance of a rich lifestyle. That's why Nancy became friends with the wives of the "kitchen cabinet" the super rich guys who funded and launched Reagan's political rise. I'm sure there's been threads on here about Betsy Bloomingdale who became Nancy's bff. The rich donors assured Nancy she wouldn't have to worry again as there was "private money" for them when they needed.

Fast forward to Reagan's policies...he would advocate for big corporations and against the regular working man! Despite being a handout kween himself from the donors, he preached Americans should not expect handouts from the government.

Fuck the Reagans!

I can't wait for part II next Sunday

R32, Was he a veteran? Did your family receive the official letter signed by the current POTUS after he died?

[quote] Despite being a handout kween himself from the donors, he preached Americans should not expect handouts from the government.

Private donors are not the government, so how does that make him a fraud?

I'm going to watch this as soon as I finish The Crown and catch up with Nicole Kidman's wig on HBO.

Have Patti and her atheist brother commented on this yet?

[quote] I'm going to watch this as soon as I finish The Crown

Interesting that we’re seeing the machinations of Margaret Thatcher in The Crown.

And now Ronald Reagan.

They both laid the foundations for what was to come.

If only we knew then what we know now.

R43 the point is the Reagans relied on handouts from money rather than simply earning it themselves. You don't think it's hypocritical to criticize people who want assistance from the government but he turns around has his lifestyle funded by rich people propping him up to advocate on their behalf?

R45 Ron Jr does commentary in this documentary

R43 Reagan was also a fraud as he became conservative after it became financially beneficial for him.

They also quoted him talking about the importance of being an actor in politics

this guy wasn't sincere. Just a greedy whore who envied rich people and wanted to be like them so he faked it until he made it...and idiot Americans believed the fairytale

Still trying to find the footage of Nancy addressing all the beautiful white people

R23 Fuck off. Everyone should be reminded of the true Reagan legacy, and often. Put it all out there, the truth, for everyone to absorb and understand. Too many still believe in the bullshit.

The Reagan library burnt down, of the two books inside, Ronny had only finished coloring in one.

I find the biggest fraud was Nancy insisting that Ronny didn't have his hair colored

Reagan Administration refusing to even mention AIDS as a public health crisis for years? Delaying education and resources to quell the infection. Sounds familiar.

[quote] the point is the Reagans relied on handouts from money rather than simply earning it themselves. You don't think it's hypocritical to criticize people who want assistance from the government but he turns around has his lifestyle funded by rich people propping him up to advocate on their behalf?

No, to Reagan and many other people government assistance is very different from non-governmental charity. When I was a child, it was very clear in my family that no matter how bad off one was, it was never acceptable to go on the dole. I was taught that people who agreed to go on government assistance were the worse form of trash. Since becoming an adult, I’ve moved away from that position somewhat.

The animosity against government assistance in the twentieth century is why social security is set up the way it is, made to look like contributions and withdraws of your own money. Roosevelt and the rest knew that many people wouldn’t claim their benefits if it looked like government assistance.

Does this series explore the disconnect between Nancy's and therefore Ronnie's reliance on her astrologer versus the prevailing scientific and religious adherents abhorrence to this fraud? Unusually united in their push to expose bogus a belief system that had gone beyond "party games" and a frivolous way to match people together.

R54 but the Reagans couldn't have survived with their fake "we're rich lifestyle" when he launched his California governor campaign without "non-governmental charity" as you put it.

Not everyone has access to rich donors who'll fund you without telling the public. How is that more noble than government assistance? I call it being lucky.

Is Ron, Jr. out of the closet and living the gay life now that his beard wife, Dora, is dead?

I remember watching that World of Wonder produced documentary about gay Republicans years ago. There was this one queen who decided to support Reagan when he saw that Jimmy Carter had the sheer audacity to wear cardigan sweaters in the Oval Office. I shit you not.

After Watergate, the Republicans were considered for a time to be over, dead in the water, but the GOP worked tirelessly in tandem with the media and with a host of millionaires to trash the Democrats incessantly during Carter's presidency, even undermining the government in the hostage deal (in part thanks to the resources of one H. Ross Perot) to make the party look bad. That's how a Republican got elected to the presidency only six years after the entire party's corruption lead to their president having to resign.

A lot of those backhanded tactics were learned during the Nixon admin. You don't get Reagan if you don't have Nixon before him. You don't get iran-Contra if you don't have Kissinger and Nixon making false promises to North Vietnam behind LBJ's back.

And don't for a minute think that the GOP hasn't been learning a lot of new tactics during this Trump admin. They've learned they can basically do anything, even commit sedition and treason, and nothing will happen to them.

Something big and bad needs to happen to the Repugs or this is going to continue until the country is destroyed.

It seems to me Reagan recently has gotten something of a comeuppance.

I was born in 78, so through my earliest years, Reagan was "the president"--the only one I knew for a time. Eventually I got older and presidents came and went. I don't know when, but I feel like it was during Dubya or maybe Clinton when Republicans all called themselves "the party of Reagan." Throughout my life, Republicans were "the family values party," the "Christian values party" and "the party of Reagan." It seems to me that with the advent of Obama, this became absolutely fanatical and every Republican spoke of Reagan as if he had been a living God who graced us all with his presence for a time and whose life everyone should imitate. It disturbed me a little.

And then came Trump.

Trump, who embodies every single anti-Christian vice, just erased Reagan from every Republican's mouth. They stopped mentioning him. No one invokes his name at all. For years, all Republicans discussed doing thjngs in His image, and then their new devilish leader came along and obliterated "the family values party," and I don't think I have heard a single Republican politician even speak Reagan's name in the past four years. He went from being revered and divine to never having existed.

That may be what a leader gets when a leader builds a legacy on hollow public relations. Which means we can probably expect Trump to be worshipped for 10 pr 15 years and then to be erased from recent history by Republcians themselves as they claim a new identity based on some new charismatic dude or dudette.

I was 20 when Reagan was elected. It was the first time I voted for a president (I voted for Jimmy Carter) and I was mortified when Reagan won. I never bought the public persona he was selling, I knew it was a fabricated media image not unlike a John Wayne movie character. I was very concerned about his racist dog whistle comments, his anti-union stance, and his pro-corporate agenda.

It does seems like Trump has erased Reagan from GOP, Reagan projected the nice guy image. He didn’t demonize his political enemies. Trump is angry,bitter, crazy. Quite a change for the Republicans. The politics are also completely different. Populist vs, conservative.

Reagan absolutely demonized blacks, gays, poor people, and women.

He's the guy who really started the whole "He can't be [blank] because he [blanked]" meme, which sounds like a Match Game thing in that format, sorry. But a good example is the "He can't be sexist, he appointed a woman to the Supreme Court," which is ridiculous: Reagan was sexist and he appointed a woman for political benefit only, not because he was a champion of women.

Now that format is used for every single fucking GOPer who ever existed. "Trump can't be homophobic, he appointed a gay to his cabinet." You all know that one, well you can thank Reagan because he's the guy who started it in earnest.

My father was an old school conservative and he hated Reagan. Thought he was one of the worst presidents this country ever had. So many of the most damaging things this country has to deal with today were ushered in by him.

[quote]You're an idiot. And on a gay website spouting this stupidity. Ever read of something called AIDS?

Yes, how Reagan handled AIDS was horrible, and how trump has handled covid is pretty much the same - just ignore it, it will go away.

R65 Well this may be an anonymous message board, but I am now pretty sure you are not Hillary Clinton!

Read up on how Reagan handled the airline industry during the Air Controller's strike. Union buster.

r67 THAT was the beginning of the end. Reagan made the traditional blue collar worker forget where his bennies came from. People were so enamored and by that I mean bamboozled, of and by him, they began to vote Republican in droves. Senior citizens for cryin' out loud, did they think they were watching one of his nice guy films? If there's any justice, Reagan is in the Ninth Circle of Hell that is home to traitors to kin and country. Trump should take note.

I've checked it out, VERY good film making

Did they explain the jellybeans?

[quote]Reagan deregulation gave us contaminated chicken.

Is this a coded reference to the 80s obsession with repressed memories of institutionalized pedophilia?

R57, like George W. Bush, Ronald Prescott Reagan is not a junior.

[quote]Reagan made the traditional blue collar worker forget where his bennies came from. People were so enamored and by that I mean bamboozled, of and by him, they began to vote Republican in droves. Senior citizens for cryin' out loud, did they think they were watching one of his nice guy films?

It's a trend in the Anglophone world. The blue collar worker took for granted the union support that protected him.

Ron Reagan Jr was interviewed for this...and Kitty Kelley is one of the producers (and interviewees). Interesting, especially since he was the only child they liked.

R74, And yet, when Nancy died, he refused to participate in any of the pre-funeral tribute activities at the Reagan Library for her. He told Patti he would only travel to California to attend the actual funeral service.

Check it out at 1:02 . . .

Reagan saved American from communism just as Trump is saving America from socialism.

Just ask any red state.

[quote] Read up on how Reagan handled the airline industry during the Air Controller's strike. Union buster.

Keep in mind that the PATCO strike was no ordinary strike. The air traffic controllers did not show up for work despite:

1) it was illegal for federal employees to strike

2) Reagan had ordered them to return to work under the terms of the Taft-Hartley Act

3) they had all swore an oath that they would not strike

4) a federal court had issued a federal injunction against the union and the strike

You can’t get more illegal than that. Union members in other unions understood that the PATCO strike was illegal and different from the legal actions that their unions had engaged in. The aftermath was devastating for unions and you wonder how things would be if the PATCO strikers had not made such a terrible decision.

My idiot asshole uncle was an air traffic controller and loved Reagan so much he just shrugged off how he was treated by him. I could never understand why he did that, then Trump came along and tens of millions have done the same, gays and blacks and immigrant families and poor people shrugging off what he's done to them because they love him so much. Insanity.

All I know is Mrs. Just Say No - Nancy Reagan is rumored to have been a good cock sucker. It's said she could suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

There are more than a few similarities between Reagan and the current person in the Oval Office.

Ronny Ray-Gun and Donald Dump share teevee history as an image/revisionist maker.

Both began in the opposite party, then switched to conservatism to aid their personal ascents.

They both appointed idiotic people to shelter them (from Nancy and astrologers to arrogant and cruel children and tyrant grifters like Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon).

They both have exhibited mental issues: Ronny’s dementia and Dump’s obvious stupidity and psychological pathologies. Dump’s family also has a history of dementia.

Both were used by others for their own purposes: Ronny by Nancy and her coterie as his impairment occurred and Donny by the Repubs and dictators alike.

Both denied the infectious diseases of their day: HIV and Covid.

Both ultimately tore at the fabric of the USA and developed ardent, stupefied supporters.

From Nixon, to Reagan, to the two Bushes, to Trump---all have been unmitigated disasters for America. Money has been carted up to the rich; cities have suffered; the debt has jumped.

It's Reagan the GOP keeps bringing up because they worked hard to deify him. They have no one else. The public has forgotten what he wrought.

Will the Biden administration be credited for the success of vaccines that were created due to the actions of the Trump administration?

R82, surely you’re not claiming that there would not have been a similar Operation Warp Speed in any other administration in power during the midst of this pandemic?!

I haven't seen the documentary so this is no judgement on it. But the Kennedys did a masterful job of "fooling" the public. JFK and Jackie were the perfect couple (except for the stuff we now know.) It seems childish to think the Reagans were doing something new. Ditto for FDR and Eleanor.

The whole idea of "fooling" people seems childish.

I've told this story on DL before but it's worth a repeat on this thread. My mom went to nursing school at Northwestern University in Chicago in the 1950s. She knew a lot of med students at one of the hospitals where Nancy Reagan's step-father, Loyal Davis, was a surgeon. All of this residents hated him. He as a bastard, and such a racist that it shocked even the white, entitled med students of the 1950s.

Anyway, as part of their training, these residents had to do pro-bono obstetrics in hospitals on Chicago's Southside, where most of the patients were Black. At the time, there was some tradition where Black moms would name their first-born sons after the doctor who delivered him. All of Davis' residents would tell these moms that their name was Dr. Loyal Davis. So, there was a whole generation of black kids running around with his name.

R21, deinstitutionalization was a gradual process that began well before Reagan became president. The advent of antipsychotic drugs in the 1950s was the beginning of the end for institutions.

Ronnie is watching Nancy sucking Sinatra's cock in hell. Frankie never cums….

Ketchup as a vegetable, anyone?

He was a huge hypocrite when it came to foreign policy—on one hand the Soviet Bloc was "the evil empire," but segregated South Africa merited "constructive engagement."

Did any one the elders know this guy, Terry Dolan? I think Larry Kramer threw water in his face once at a party. Closeted, virulently right wing gay who died of AIDS in 1986. He was all mixed up with Rove, Manafort and Stone in those days, too. The PAC he cofounded, National Conservative Political Action Committee, is a big reason why politics are the way they are today, from spending to attack ads.

R88, In 2011, Congress declared pizza a vegetable.

We knew all this in 1980.

He called his wife "Mommy" long before Pence came along.

He was a lying, swindling vulgarian who probably gave Trump a lot of his ideas. The Reagan 80s were Trump's moment of greatest authenticity, an era he's kept alive in mutant form until the present day.

Read the old Doonesburys from back then. Trudeau had Reagan's number (Trump's, too).

Dump is definitely a relic of the shit part of the 1980s. Let's move on.

Didn't 'Drunken History' already cover this territory?

Since Dump republicans know how to attract voters. That 73 million public vote count will determine the type of candidate they choose for decades to come.

Nancy was a fish-eyed anorexic just like Jackie.

R96 They were both horribly overrated and shallow individuals.

The look on the interviewer's face in the Kitty Kelley video posted by R49 when Kitty says Patti had a tubal ligation rather than "pass on her mother's genes" is hilarious.

I'm a fan for life of Kitty Kelly after watching that interview, bitch knows how to dish.

R49 what local Boston show was that?

I had no idea Kitty Kelley was even still alive until I watched this last weekend.

Good Day! (originally known as Good Morning!, and alternately known in later years as The Good Day Show and Good Day! Live) is an American morning television program which aired from September 24, 1973 until October 11, 1991.

Kitty Kelley confirms the point made here that, for all her undeniable faults, Nancy was a moderating influence on her husband, especially in the 2nd term as she promoted a better US-Soviet relationship. With the benefit of time, the interviewer’s pushback on the claims that Nancy & Barbara Bush did not get along seems pretty uninformed.

We found out after the fact how venomous Babs Bush was.

To everyone.

R102, The interviewer and show's co-host was Eileen Prose.

The original show's co-host was Janet Langhart, who left to host a morning show in NYC and later married former Maine Senator William Cohen.

The doc is good so far.

Was Nancy buried in Adolfo, Galanos, Bill Blass or Oscar de la Renta?

Kitty speaks about Nancy strong arming fashion companies to give her designer clothing, skipping out on bills.

Tacky.

R105 wow just looked up Eileen Prose and she's a rabid right winger Trump supporter on twitter

R82 the Pfizer vaccine received German government money, not American

Say what you will about Nancy but she had a soft spot for the gays. After all they taught her who suck cock, something most women have no clue how to do correctly.

R109, Eileen competed in the 1966 Miss America Pageant as Miss Indiana, placing 2nd runner-up.

The Reagans are long gone and forgotten about. Even Republicans no longer care. Trump is their savior.

Nancy was a known thief - quite trashy actually. Many designers, jewelers and high-end retailers whispered this to the press and were a bit more candid with the gossip columns. I'm pretty sure that she was a speed freak also (so many celebrities were to stay thin - and this was the 80's after all) - maybe not coke per se, but definitely amphetamines. I never realized that Reagans were actually quite poor/middle class and were always just putting on a show to "appear" wealthy. No wonder Dump and Reagan were two peas in a pod (although Dump actually inherited a fair amount - just squandered it all quickly). Tacky, tacky, tacky - the whole lot.

R114, women of Nancy's age were on "diet pills" to stay thin, that's speed. But since it came from a MD, it was okay. On the other side, they were used Seconal and Miltown. Didn't Patty talk about Nancy's use of Miltown?

"Nancy was a fish-eyed anorexic just like Jackie."

Jackie was not anorexic when she was in the White House.

"No wonder Dump and Reagan were two peas in a pod (although Dump actually inherited a fair amount - just squandered it all quickly)."

Trump INHERITED THE ENTIRE COMPANY, are you not aware of that? He build nothing, everything he had was inherited.

[quote] Will the Biden administration be credited for the success of vaccines that were created due to the actions of the Trump administration?

Just as Trump took credit for the Obama/Biden economy, stock market, and black employment

Nancy falls off a White House stage at 9:30.

Nancy seemed truly malignant. Horrid woman.

R118, that was fun. Drink obviously.

We’re Nancy and Ron truly head over heels in love or was it all an act?

Ha.

You can fall as hard as you want OFF camera.

Do your fucking and falling off camera.

"We’re Nancy and Ron truly head over heels in love or was it all an act?"

On his part you could say it was an act merely because he didn't know where his was/didn't know his name on any given day.

It was his second marriage. They keep that quiet.

R124, his first marriage - to an Academy Award-winning actress who was the star of a hit nighttime soap opera during his presidency - produced the lone two children who were very politically active for their father, so I don’t know for whom his marriage to Jane Wyman was a secret during his political career.

Yes, R116 - of course I know that Dump inherited his father's company (and later managed to steal much of his sibling's and their children's smaller inheritance portions as well according to Mary). I just don't count Fred Senior's company to have been all THAT huge or valuable - certainly not the sort of big money that they liked to front and pretend it to be. He was never a Jeff Bezos for heaven's sake - even before losing it all. And I as I said, Dump managed to squander all of it into multiple bankruptcies - leaving it completely in the red (first saved somewhat by taking the company public and selling plenty of shares and later saved by The Apprentice and the money that this TV show brought in). Even still, my guess is that the company is still operating in the red (the approximately $450 million owed is just what we actually know about...).

The documentary also revealed how Ronald and Nancy met He was president of the Screen Actor's Guild. She contacted him to help her with a problem affecting her career prospects. This was during the McCarthyism bullshit. Apparently there was another Nancy Davis who was suspected of being a communist. Nancy was confused with this woman and started getting both her mail as well as blacklisted. Ronald helped her get out of that situation and they began dating.

Does the documentary mention that Nancy was pregnant with Patti when they got married?

R128 yes I think they said 2 months so she gave birth after just 7 months married

Nancy was knocked up at her own wedding after having been labeled a blow-job queen for years before. Love those conservative values.

He is an awful president who got lucky. He may be the beginning of the corrupted system we have today. The first president who thought it will be great to give massive tax cut for wealthy and use debt to compensate for the insufficient funding for government.

I really hope in few years people will realise he is corrupted and nothing but a smooth talker. And the same go for Bill Clinton.

It's disturbing still that so many young people and latinos voted for Trump, after seeing how he damaged our country these past 4 years. If the Dems don't turn things around, they're in trouble. Reagan fooled everyone; Trump did, too.

[quote] I really hope in few years people will realise he is corrupted and nothing but a smooth talker. And the same go for Bill Clinton.

Agree, R131.

Another poster up thread was waxing on and on about how wonderful Reagan and Clinton were.

That was not my perception. And while everything is not black or white, found from personal experience (via family member) some pretty shocking things about one in particular that I will NEVER forget.

As for Bill Clinton, his behavior towards Obama in the ‘08 primary, revealed how easily he, if born earlier, could easily have been his own version of Orville Faubus in his home state of Arkansas.

Dems have to rethink strategy.

Clinton was and is pi pissed because Hills was bumped for Obama.

R134, You mean, when Bill Clinton said to Ted Kennedy on the phone about Obama, "This guy should be getting us coffee"?

Ted was so angered, he publicly endorsed Obama the next day.

Bill Clinton also said to reporters that the Obama campaign was nothing but a fairytale.

I love Ron Jr in this.

"I don't mean to insult him but he relied a little more on low-effort thinking and became a little more conservative. Much more conservative, in fact."

Reagan was the beginning of the end.

As others have mentioned, this would have been much more powerful pre-2016

Post-Trump, it all seems like child's play

R136, there’s no way Clinton would say that.

The Kennedys endorsed Obama fir many reasons but didn’t like that Hillary mentioned Johnson, but not JFK as having pushed the Civil Rights Bill

Bill Clinton did make the coffee remark, but I don't know if that specifically angered the Kennedys or to the extent that it became the tipping point not to support HRC. I assumed they endorsed Barack Obama because he fit with the family narrative of social justice, esp via Bobby.

Reagan: Fool me once, shame on you.

Trump: Fool me twice, shame on me.

Was the Clinton coffee remark specifically racial? Or, as I’m imagining it, maybe related to him being such a junior senator who had not earned his high regard yet. I’m still flabbergasted to this day that he, as a new congressman, was able to make such a leap to the presidency so fluidly. Most senators spend decades in congress before they really seem eligible for such a step up in stature, what he did was completely unprecedented.

Reagan ushered in this mess we are living today. Republicans love using the public tax money as their personal corporate slush fund.

Yet, when Democratic policies try to tap into those public funds to actually help the people with healthcare, infrastructure, and emergency funding for people in need, they’re labeled as socialist. Go figure.

If you watch Mrs. American we can clearly lay the blame on Phyllis Shaffley.

"Bill Clinton also said to reporters that the Obama campaign was nothing but a fairytale."

That was during a campaign stop. Clinton was referring to Obama's lack of experience, and whatever you think about either one of them, Obama's leap skip jump from State Senator to US Senator to presidential candidate within four short years WAS a fairy tale.

R140, Clinton's remarks were documented in the book "Game Change".

R146 I agree wholeheartedly and add in that he’s a Black man making it even more remarkable and mystical. At the time I said we would have a female president long before ever having a black one. I’m firmly a liberal, but I couldn’t even begin to imagine something like that happening in that day and age. It was breathtaking to experience in real time, and also come to believe that we, as a country, may be even more misogynist than racist.

ALL of those Clinton quotes refer to Obama's lack of experience, it had nothing to do with race.

"produced the lone two children who were very politically active for their father..."

Reagan's marriage to Jane Wyman produced ONE child, Maureen. The other one was adopted. Michael Reagan was not recognized by Daddy-o at his own HS graduation. He wrote that Reagan introduced himself to him like they were literal strangers. Michael is also a mess who only worked for Reagan because other employment options were few.

Adopted children - like biological children - are products of a marriage, too, R149.

Did the adoption drive them to divorce?

The best thing this POS did for people was give out free cheese to the poor and Blacks. He had a plan until he got shot. Kinda on the lines of quoting Mike Tyson ,"every body has a plan until you get punched in the face" in RR case, SHOT.

R149, In his autobiography, Michael Reagan wrote that he was sexually molested as a boy at summer camp.

He did not reveal this until he was a married man with children . . . who was writing a book.

The one and only redeeming quality about Nancy Reagan was that she thought Michael Reagan was a creepy weirdo loser and refused to have him around.

That was the only thing Nancy did that was correct.

[quote] [R134], You mean, when Bill Clinton said to Ted Kennedy on the phone about Obama, "This guy should be getting us coffee"?

Speaks volumes.

HOWEVER one chooses to interpret it.

Clinton is a sociopathic- albeit charismatic - person.

And Hilliary covered for him. They are two peas in a pod.

Sexual assaults? Rapes? Affairs? Epstein?

No thank you.

And I am a huge Dem supporter.

[quote] [R146] I agree wholeheartedly and add in that he’s a Black man making it even more remarkable and mystical. At the time I said we would have a female president long before ever having a black one. I’m firmly a liberal, but I couldn’t even begin to imagine something like that happening in that day and age. It was breathtaking to experience in real time, and also come to believe that we, as a country, may be even more misogynist than racist.

It makes me laugh when people say America is more misogynist than racist when it flies in the face of the evidence. Because all those Beckys and Karens are in jail for possessing a few ounces marijuana.

And it makes wonder about the critical thinking skills of people thinking Clinton saying Obama’s candidacy was a “fairy tale” was remarkable and mystical and meant in any way a positive light. Bill Clinton is highly intelligent, one of the greatest public speakers in the world and is also from the Deep South. No, he is not racist, it‘s not that simple.. But he was aware of the subconscious dog whistles audiences absorb and used all the nuances of his words when he defended his “experienced” wife over the young black upstart.

Barack Obama became president because he was in that time and place the perfect black candidate in every conceivable way. He is not just any black politician. You could not have have a better one in 2008 had he been created in a science lab.

Demonizing Democratic politicians is a remarkably obtuse variation while discussing the truly deplorable Republican Reagan and the sycophants following in his footsteps.

Petty crimes dems versus felonious repub assault on the USA.

^^Very Black and White Thinking, R157. Pun intended.

One can be disgusted with Repubs AND Dems. It’s not an either/or proposition.

In fact, we might do better if MOST politicians were cleared out and fresher MORE ETHICAL, responsible, humanistic leaders replaced many in the US political system.

It seems to breed narcissistic, sociopathic personalities.

That’s not to excuse any of them.

And yes, there have been some decent ones. Even relatively good ones.

[quote] Because all those Beckys and Karens are in jail for possessing a few ounces marijuana.

One is committing a crime, no matter how minor, and the other is freaking out in a public setting. The fact that you can equate the two proves that misogyny is a bigger problem with Americans than racism. I think Obama was a major beneficiary of white guilt.

THE HUSBAND OF OUR QUEEN WILL NOT BE BESMIRCHED

BESMIRCHING HIM REFLECTS NEGATIVELY ON HER AND MAKES HER SEEM LESS THAN PERFECT.

WHICH IS FALSE AS THERE IS NO MORE PERFECT BEING THAN HER

NO ONE ELSE WHO SAID "WOMEN'S RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS"

BESMIRCH HER CONSORT AT YOUR OWN RISK

There were two primary concerns I had when Obama was elected president:

1 His presidency was going to bring all the racists out of the woodworks.

2 He was going to be assassinated.

The first one happened right away. The Tea Party began as soon as he won the election, under the guise of "liberty". It was basically sponsored and supported by the Koch Brothers, whose father had sponsored the John Birch Society 35 years earlier. I'm glad the second point never came to be. The Supreme Court however decided to gut the Voting Rights Act of 1965 claiming that we live in a post-racist society in big part because we had a black president.

[quote] But he was aware of the subconscious dog whistles audiences absorb and used all the nuances of his words when he defended his “experienced” wife over the young black upstart.

You're pretending she's not experienced now? And you think misogyny is not a real problem?

Had no idea Hillary and Bill made the comments they made about Obama back in 2008. I'm not surprised though!

Bill is a redneck Cracker from Arkansas. And Hillary is white trash from the midwest. Of course they both said those things and it was meant to be racist, of course.

No wonder she didn't win the election in 2016. No forgot about "Super Predators"! Her image is trash and her husbands image is tarnished too. They both did it to themselves.

I say all if this as someone who voted for Hillary in 2016, but I don't put politicans on pedestals. Only that reserved for first ladies only.

I loved the Reagan's. He came in with an agenda and followed it. I would vote for a man like him again.

I don't have any friends in my life who are really that bitter and angry about anything in their lives. So, I'm grateful I can dip in here now and then for a smidge of bitterness, a touch of righteous indignation, and unrequited angry about almost everything going on in the world.

[quote]One is committing a crime, no matter how minor, and the other is freaking out in a public setting. The fact that you can equate the two proves that misogyny is a bigger problem with Americans than racism.

Young black men and women are jailed for minor drugs charges. Young women carrying bud and a few grams of blow aren't. Anti-black racism is worse than sexism faced by white women in America.

[quote] I think Obama was a major beneficiary of white guilt.

That is patently obvious from your posts, sweetie.

“America’s 40th president was a lot of things: a right-wing talk radio host, a Hollywood actor, a Red Scare monger, a charismatic liar. A great leader wasn’t one of them but for some reason Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War seems keen to revive that long-standing conservative fantasy.”

[quote]You're pretending she's not experienced now?

No. Bill Clinton used specific phrases - fairy tale, coffee guy- as a linguistic signifier to indicate that Hillary = elevated, experienced, deserving, one of us, a reality based choice and Barack = inferior, inexperienced, undeserving, not one of us, a fantasy based choice.

After Obama won the South Carolina primary in 2008 and Bill's comment that Obama was a fringe Jesse Jackson type black candidate generated negative publicity for the Clinton camp, Bill himself complained that Obama "played the race card against me".

[quote]And you think misogyny is not a real problem?

No. I maintain that anti-black racism is a much greater problem than sexism faced by white women in America.

[quote] Young black men and women are jailed for minor drugs charges. Young women carrying bud and a few grams of blow aren't. Anti-black racism is worse than sexism faced by white women in America.

Oh sweetheart, you weren't talking about white females carrying a few grams of anything and you know it. You were equating a crime with an emotional freak out. I know exactly what you meant. And it's not white females you have a problem with, it's all females, including black ones. It will be actually be funny to see you fake woke apologists who are constantly paying lip service to these social justice causes you don't even care about, having to eat your words. Can't wait!

I find it amusing the way that politicians are demonized for any word that they ever uttered - regardless of context. If you want to play that game, you can have a field day with the outright lies and 180's that Repug politicians do on a daily basis when they are not in a competitive primary race - this would take literal volumes of encyclopedias to cover. But since you want to bring up primaries, go back to what Trump said about his primary opponents and they about him. Hillary and Barack were fierce competitors in a primary...but Bill had the audacity to say that Barack was unexperienced - how dare!! They were in a fucking primary. So were Kamala and Joe. So were Dump, Cruz, Lady G, Jabba the Christie, etc. If you want to run around spewing something that Hillary's husband mentioned about her fierce competitor and make it a thing - then please report the story from all sides. What Bush had to say about Reagan and vice versa. Dubya about McCain. Get a life.

* inexperienced

[quote] I find it amusing the way that politicians are demonized for any word that they ever uttered - regardless of context.

Oh Dear, R170. “Demonized”, you say?

It’s much more than saying something “out of context”.

So sayeth Juanita Broaddrick (who accused Clinton of raping her in 1978), Leslie Millwee (who accused Clinton of sexually assaulting her in 1980); Paula Jones who accused Clinton of exposing himself to her in 1991 as well as sexually harassing her); Kathleen Wiley (who accused Clinton of assaulting her); Chauntae Davis (a sex trafficking victim who was with Clinton and Epstein on The Lolita Express); Suzanne Colman (who was having an affair with Clinton when he was AG in Arkansas. She was 7.5 months pregnant and died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head. This death was labelled a suicide and not further investigated, despite the fact that she was less than 1.5 months away from delivering a child and shot her self in the BACK of the head....)

There are multiple, multiple others who have exceedingly shady roots to sex-trafficking (via Epstein), drugs, money laundering and suspicious death....all with connections to Bill Clinton.

While I am a Dem, I am under NO illusions that not only are Trump, Bush, Cheney and Reagan corrupt, but some Dems are also.

Sociopathic despite the “Hero Clinton” Defence of DL.

"A dope with fat ankles"

"Little Ronnie Reagan"

Did he ever play a whore?

Seeing how repulsive Trump and lvanka are, I find myself wondering how Bill, Hillary and Chelsea could have ever been friends with them unless they are equally repulsive.

R172 I agree! The Clintons are definitely corrupt. I put not politician on a pedestal.

Democratic or Republican.

The Clintons are very entitled. The American presidency dosen't belong to anyone, if you want it you must work for it and earn it.

Well this thread took a giant shit.

Where the fuck is Laura Bush at? I'm so sick of her absence in the face if Trump. She did that one Washington post op-ed against Trump and that was it. Dubya too!

We the taxpayers are still paying for them all the way to the grave. They still have an obligation to Americans to speak out as elder statesmen.

They're a little to quiet for me.

The Reagans are fucking hypocrites, they had benefactors their entire life. They had wealthy friends propping them up for decades, they even had them buy them a home in Bel air right before they left the white house.

But "pull yourself up by your bootstraps," is something Republicans love to say.

Fuck the Reagans!

R177 I am still baffled by anyone who defends the Clintons. Almost everyone know they are terrible person at this point. Whoever still desperately defending them may just cannot accept the fact that the politicians they adore is nothing more than a corrupt hypocrites.

Politicans are puppets for big $$$$$. That being said, I still believe in voting and vot in every election.

Where should start R182...I take it that English is a second language for you? Re-read your post and try again. You CAN learn to read and write - I just know it!

^ "Where should I start"

R184 Go ahead, tell people why you love the Clintons. We are waiting.

R176 they are equally repulsive.

Listen, r169, you fucking Aspie. The reason this thread previously fun and informative Reagan hate thread has devolved into talk about the motherfucking Clintons is you.

You said that misogyny is a bigger issue than racism in America. Right here! And you don't seem to know what "mystical" means.

[quote] I agree wholeheartedly and add in that he’s a Black man making it even more remarkable and mystical. At the time I said we would have a female president long before ever having a black one. I’m firmly a liberal, but I couldn’t even begin to imagine something like that happening in that day and age. It was breathtaking to experience in real time, and also come to believe that we, as a country, may be even more misogynist than racist.

I said it's obviously not, giving the example that black people are charged for offenses white women aren't at the same rate. Right here!

[quote] It makes me laugh when people say America is more misogynist than racist when it flies in the face of the evidence. Because all those Beckys and Karens are in jail for possessing a few ounces marijuana.

Because you have very, very poor reading comprehension, you decided I was talking about white women who throw public tantrums. Right here!

[quote] Oh sweetheart, you weren't talking about white females carrying a few grams of anything and you know it. You were equating a crime with an emotional freak out. I know exactly what you meant. And it's not white females you have a problem with, it's all females, including black ones.

We know you have a problem with black people. "Woke"! "Apologists!" "White Guilt!" "Social Justice!". We get it.

[quote] It will be actually be funny to see you fake woke apologists who are constantly paying lip service to these social justice causes you don't even care about, having to eat your words. Can't wait!

This is actually meaningless.

The America was totally to blame. As has been said, time and time again: they were out to lunch during the Reagan administration. They never delivered a single genuinely hard ball question that a good UK interviewer would have lobbed, and certainly not Barbwa. It was considered 'rude' because he came across so gentlemanly and fatherly.

Typo: The American MEDIA

The anti-Clinton troll needs to start a thread and I will happily respond to him there (here is a hint - there is no comparison between them and this corrupt, miserable, trashy family). This thread is about the Reagans - try a little reading comprehension. Yes, they were a complete sham - in every way. From trashy, speed freak, compulsive thief Nancy and her "just say no" bullshit, to Ronald's "trickle down economics" fraud and miserable failure of a "war on drugs", to the horrible and dangerous marriage of organized religion with politics. Of course that is just the tip of the iceberg. They started a new sort of rotten, damaging corruption that has only metastasized into further malodorous decay and sewage as the decades have rolled on. Scumbags those two.

R188, Not accurate. Helen Thomas and Sam Donaldson were both relentless in their treatment of Reagan.

You could always hear Sam shouting borderline rude questions at Reagan in public and Helen would practically follow Reagan as he left the podium after a White House press conference if she felt he'd been ducking her questions.

Nancy liked and admired Helen, but made no secret that she thought Sam was an overbearing pest.

^Meant for R189.

The trickle down skat queen just confessed trickle down economics doesn't work.

40 years of destruction.

[quote] I said it's obviously not, giving the example that black people are charged for offenses white women aren't at the same rate

The fact that this applies even more to white men, far more than white women, and you still choose to drag women through the mud, rather than a white man or any man, tells me that you are a misogynist of the highest order. Men of every single race are guilty of more crimes than women, and that includes drug possession. And that includes far more black men than black women. Can't wait until they come after your fake white apologist ass. It will be delicious!

Reagan had a degree in economics. Pretty decent degree. Why did his kids turn out gay? Odd. If he was straight, he's the first straight actor in history. Nancy was so ugly. Trump was the first honest president. The press just could not handle it.

The Reagans were a garbage pair. They ushered in everything wrong with America today. Greed, flashiness, being anti social responsibility, looking the other way when you should be helping, etc.

Most Republicans talk a good game about what everyone else should be doing. And how you should work for everything you want. But behind the scenes everything is being handed to them.

Republicans are trash through and through. Nothing redeeming about them period.

[quote] Trump was the first honest president.

Ha ha. Hahaha. Hahahaha. Hahahahahahahaha. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahshahaha. Bwahabwahwabwahabwahabwahabwahabwahabwa

Black people commit the crime and must do the time. That includes antifa and blm. Even rich blacks like bill cosby and oj simpson all do serious crime. White men are too busy working their butts off to have time for crime.

R195 "Trump was the first honest president. The press just could not handle it."

Trump was by far the most dishonest president in American history. The press had trouble handling the unprecedented snowstorm of bullshit that kept coming their way.

This thread should really be called “How the Reagan’s FUCKED America!”

Tje Reagan's should've never been in the white house to begin with.

Talk about two very out if touch assholes. Ronald acted the part of president for eight years. And Nancy wanted to be some kind of society Queen with her wealthy socialite friends.

Two garbage assholes.

From wiki:

"He attended Eureka College, a Disciples-oriented liberal arts school, where he became a member of the Tau Kappa Epsilon fraternity, a cheerleader. He was an indifferent student, majored in economics and sociology and graduated with a C grade.[26] He developed a reputation as a "jack of all trades", excelling in campus politics, sports, and theater. He was a member of the football team and captain of the swim team. He was elected student body president and participated in student protests against the college president.[ "

interestingly they didn't discuss his college years in part I of the documentary but this just shows Reagan really was liberal. Participating in protests against the college president?

also hilarious that Reagan was student body president and later screen actor's guild president. Clearly he loved the attention and wanted to feel important so the next step was politics

so all it took was for GE to build Reagan a house, pay him to advertise it on tv and then he went from left to right, a corporate shill the rest of his life and leaving his liberal views behind

shame on 80s America for not only electing him but reelecting him. Were mainstream 80s values in line with this? Why was there this image that Reagan was so amazing?

[quote]And Hillary is white trash from the midwest.

No, not at all.

1. She grew up in a pleasant Chicago suburb. Her father owned a store. She went on to Wellesly where she was senior class president. Nothing trashy about her background.

2. If you understood what racists meant when they called someone "white trash," you would never, ever use that phrase. It's quite racist. Please, just drop it from your lexicon.

^^ I love it when you type 'lexicon'.

[quote] Nothing trashy about her

Except for her smug, arrogant attitude that she “deserved” a presidency (and turned off Dem and Independent voters) landing Trump in office.

No. Definitely not as her staff popped champagne early on Election Day 2016.

Not trashy at all.

R205 the phrase "white trash" is very broad. You don't have to be a poor trash white Cracker MAGA type to considered white trash. You just have to be white and racist or bigoted.

I've never just considered poor racist whites to be white trash, but wealthy whites too who happen to be racist and bigoted etc. The Trumps are white trash. The Hiltons are white trash. The koch's are white trash along with the Mercers. Mitch McConnell is white trash along with Lindsay Graham. The Reagans are also white trash.

Any white person who have money and is well put together can look good. But underneath it, they are most likely white trash.

And no! I will not remove it from my "lexicon" because most of white society in America is comprised of white trash. We saw that in the amount of white people who just voted for Trump in the 2020 election. Those people are white trash in my personal opinion, and nothing's going to change my opinion or feelings about that.

Most white people in America display shades of white trash within them to me. A big part of why this country cannot move forward is because it's being held hostage by white trash American society.

The phrase white trash will always be apart of my lexicon. Because most white people are white trash in America. It's just a fact and American history proves it.

She certainly is not trashy in any way. Anyone with half a brain can see that. You don't even need to be a fan to see that. Good lord. I predicted Americans would learn nothing from Trump's disgrace of a presidency and I was right. Americans are still divided, just like before. Maybe even more. God help this country!

Both Bill and Hillary are both white trash. I don't care what anyone says, they are both white trash. Believe me I know.

[quote] she certainly is not trashy in any way.

Perhaps Suzanne Colman might disagree with you, R209. Oh, but she can’t because she’s DEAD. From a GSW to the back of the head. After an affair with Hilliary’s husband. She was 7.5 months pregnant. And died from “suicide” from a gunshot wound to the BACK of the head in Arkansas.

Or what about Chauntae who was sex-trafficked with Epstein and Bill Clinton and photographed on a plane with both.

What about the friend that Hilliary was merciless with: she verbally attacked him cruelly (as witnessed by others) and he was so despondent, he killed himself?

Or the Secret Service agents that she belittled and verbally assaulted though they were in service to her?

Or the fact that Hilliary was First Lady of Arkansas when there were many shady deaths associated with her and her husband that were vaguely linked to drug running?

What about all the women who accused her husband of rape or sexual assault and Hilliary attacked them on behalf of Bill?

What about Hilliary’s personal associations with Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell and Harvey Weinstein?

Doesn’t matter how much education or $$$$ someone has (or throw about words, say like, “lexicon”) they can - as R208 astutely notes - be considered “trashy”.

Pretending Hilliary Clinton is some classy saint is a discredit and disservice to people everywhere.

can you please stop talking about the Clintons or other people? start another thread for that

this is about a documentary on the Reagans. I'm enjoying reading all the comments trashing them.

The Bushes are also white trash along with the McCain family. John and Cindy are two very special cases of white trash. And that daughter of there's is something else.

Didn't she blow Camp Pendleton?

R210, When he was Governor, the Clintons donated their used underwear and claimed an IRS deduction.

Reagan authorized American forces invading Grenada after their Hollywood friend Claudette Colbert who lived in luxury in The Caribbean spoke to the Reagans anxiously about 'native uprisings '.

Trash. Trash. Trash.

[quote]. Men of every single race are guilty of more crimes than women, and that includes drug possession. And that includes far more black men than black women. Can't wait until they come after your fake white apologist ass. It will be delicious!

Ah. So you are longing for someone who disagrees with you on the internet to be the victim of a crime committed by a black man.

Really, r195? Get professional help.

You're just making up stuff and listing negative character traits because you don't have a clue what "white trash" means.

First and foremost: It is a racist, classist slur. If you think of yourself as liberal or progressive, you should not be using this phrase. Ever. Really.

Classic characteristics are shiftlessness, laziness, disorganization, and poor values. They are unschooled or underschooled, usually unchurched, and frequently unemployed.

You might not like how Hillary Rodham Clinton turned out, but she is not Midwestern white trash. She comes from a solid, church-going family of some means, though not rich, and she herself certainly is not unschooled. Nothing about this woman suggests shiftlessness or laziness.

If you want to call her a bitch or crooked, you might have an argument, but WT she is not, not now, not ever.

^We have a poster that seems to be stuck on their definition of trashy and its connection to the Clintons.

Despite many posters refuting them and asking to move on to the subject of the thread (Reagan, remember?), R218 keeps repeating their tripe over.

And over.

And over.

Enough already.

R215 source pls.

"Hillary and Bill Clinton famously donated Bill’s used underwear and took a $2 per-pair tax deduction on their 1986 tax return. In Bill’s own handwriting, here is the line from the 1986 Clinton tax return, claiming a $6 deduction for “3 pr. underwear”:

Most press reports have focused on the strangeness of the used underwear donation and tax deduction. But the new examination of handwritten notes reveals the Clintons cheated on their taxes by significantly overstating the value of their donated clothing. These are not simple rounding errors of a few percentage points: The Clintons overstated the value of their used clothing by a factor of several hundred percent.

And not just the underwear, but many items of clothing including suits, pants, and sports coats.

When the Washington Post investigated the matter in 1993, they hit a brick wall when trying to get an explanation. The White House “over the course of a week didn’t respond to repeated phone calls seeking answers.”

To this day, the Clintons have not answered questions about their overvaluing of non-cash donations, and Hillary Clinton’s campaign website does not make available her tax returns for the years in question.

Let’s review the case against the Clintons, starting with the judgement question of donating used underwear (likely briefs) and having the gall to take a tax deduction for it. As noted by the Washington Post:

“Several experts were consulted about Clinton's tax-deductible donations, especially of underwear. Paul Offenbacher, a longtime Washington-area tax accountant, said it is highly unusual to take an itemized deduction on donated underwear; indeed, he had never heard of such a thing.”

The Washington Post also talked to one of the recipient organizations:

"We don't get too much underwear here; I don't think people want that too much," said Joe Cheslow, a senior resident at the Union Rescue Mission, a haven for homeless people in Little Rock, Ark., that has been a frequent beneficiary of the Clintons' tax-deductible largess.

This author obtained handwritten notes of the Clinton’s donation lists to the Salvation Army and Goodwill Industries. Over the years the Clintons consistently overvalued donated items, by as much as 10 times the IRS standard.

The IRS allows deductions for non-cash donations to charity, but taxpayers must value the items truthfully. For tax year 1986, that meant using the “Thrift Shop Value” of items (the same basic standard applies to this day) as noted in IRS instructions.

The Clinton’s 1986 tax returns include a handwritten list showing they declared the value of a “gabardine suit – ripped pants” at $75, the "Brown Sports coat" at $100 and the “Salmon Sports coat” at $75. And of course the famous "3pr. underwear" at $6."

When is ep 2 on?

The Reagan’s legacy is... Donald Fucking Tramp.

R222 last night. You can catch it throughout the week though on Showtime's numerous channels. New eps are Sundays

so part II very interesting to me as well

it opened with the clip of Reagan, having won the 1980 repub primary, choosing the area of Mississippi where 3 civil rights activists had been murdered in 1964 as the place hold a rally and babble about "states' rights".. Of course that term is a loaded term and in the south it's about state governments not having to accept federal law regarding racial equality.

Throughout the episode we learn about Reagan's dog whistle politics throughout his political career. In his California governor campaigns and terms he said stuff like "property rights" meaning he wasn't in favor of forcing white people to accept black people buying into their neighborhoods. When the Watts riot happened, he referred to it as "jungle paths" at night.

He inflated his role in getting baseball to desegregate.

He said Sammy Davis Jr was 1 of his best friends so he couldn't be racist

He never denounced the support of the John Birch Society who were both far right conspiracy theorists and racists

He attacked governmental programs from taxes to welfare and his platform was the money doesn't help, it's just unfairly taken away from people. He made a huge thing of "welfare queen" based off 1 infamous case, even though way more white people are on welfare compared to black people.

Speaking of getting handouts, the episode also shows Nancy publicly complaining about the traditional governor's mansion in California. It is in downtown Sacramento and she refused to live there. So she had Reagan's "kitchen cabinet" millionaire buddies find a "better" home in an affluent area that they moved into. After a year, the state ended up paying their $15,000 a year rent. That's something like $107,700 in today's value. Nancy thought the press would be on her side and they show 2 occasions when she was shocked that they seemed in disbelief at her entitlement. She was speaking as if she and Ronald deserved to be i n the house at taxpayer's expense and that it was unfair to expect anything less. She actually said to the press there that they couldn't have afforded to buy their own house!!!!

There was a huge student protest at 1 of the colleges. Reagan decided to send in the troops to put it down. He screamed at the university execs for allowing it to happen. He used the "law & order" phrase with this protest and the Watts riot. He spoke a couple times at different colleges and again it didn't go well. He didn't like being questioned and never had concrete plans, just spin.

Reagan tried running for president 3 times. The first time he finished third and tested the waters just a year after becoming California governor. The second time he ran in 1976 he came in a close second to Ford but upstaged him at the rnc convention with his speech.

The third time of course in 1980. He was urged by Nancy to try again. Some thought he was too old and had missed his chance. His slogan was "Let's Make America Great Again"

He purposely used the southern strategy with racially loaded lingo I previously described to appeal to southern whites and it worked. They showed him going into South Bronx I think at 1 point and it didn't go well. He didn't have any plans but attacked government assistance. He got into a shouting match with some of the people.

They showed the newly unearthed tape at the end of him talking to Nixon referring to black people as monkeys who weren't comfortable wearing shoes.

I'm the millennial guy who posted earlier a summary of part I. I knew Reagan wasn't great but wow just trash! Can't wait for part III which is about his first term as president.

Thanks R224 - I'm really excited to see it. If nothing else, this documentary sees the Reagans through the lens that they very much deserve. TRASH.

Please tell me why Repugs are so stupid? They would willingly sacrifice their lives to make multinational corporations make money hand over fist. Do they really believe that Warren Buffet and GE should pay zero taxes? Yet, their wrath is aimed at the welfare family working grueling hours picking fruits for dimes a day. The most right-in-front-of -our-eyes, most obvious exploitation seems to escape them. They hate that these families have a "free house and free health care and free food". But giving millions$$ to corporate America is okay.

They want to worship Dump! Why should we forgive and overlook their sheer ignorance?

R234 Thanks for your time and effort in recapping, as I don’t have Showtime. Do you recall, was the quelling of the university with troops one of the State colleges? I’m assuming he would have more control and justification there than a privately held school.

R224, There is no record of Sammy Davis, Jr. even being friendly with Reagan, let alone "best friends".

Sammy was close with Nixon and took heat from the Hollywood crowd for campaigning for him, but there was no association with Reagan, other than he was POTUS the year Sammy received his Kennedy Center Honor in 1987.

R225 I really would recommend this documentary to people who don't know much about Reagan or really anyone just interested in getting a more complete picture of him and Nancy

R226 because repubs have managed to convince most white people that the vast majority of poor, welfare recipients are black and Hispanic. So therefore they "don't deserve" it, even though most welfare recipients are white. The big rich corporations are mostly controlled by white men, so surely it can't be wrong to give them more money, right? They just do so much for society and will help everyone else's lives get better too!!! (sarcasm)

R227 it was Berkeley. The students didn't want the university to build on a public park and it spiraled from there.

R228 not surprising. Reagan, like Trump, liked to embellish and sometimes lie about all kinds of things to make himself look better

Did anyone notice during the end credits they showed Reagan’s “map” landslide on election night? The newsmen were kibitzing and asking if there was aDemocrat out there that could touch Reagan. I think it was Dan Rather who brought up”This Biden Guy - he is a new up and coming senator from Delaware.” Everyone else sort of chuckled and said - “WHO? Sure - whatever you say ...”

[quote]Speaking of getting handouts, the episode also shows Nancy publicly complaining about the traditional governor's mansion in California. It is in downtown Sacramento and she refused to live there. So she had Reagan's "kitchen cabinet" millionaire buddies find a "better" home in an affluent area that they moved into.

They showed her with a group of other uptight white ladies complaining about how little lawn there was and how close the mansion was to "highway traffic." Of course, when the cameras were off, she was bemoaning the thought of having to live mere miles from actual colored people!

R230, those newsman in 1980 should've fired on the spot if they really didn't then know who Joe Biden was. Elected at age 29 to the Senate, defeating a longtime republican incumbent in the Nixon 1972 landslide, Biden immediately attracted national attention as a very likely future president. His notoriety was even more enhanced when his wife & daughter were killed in an automobile accident before he was even seated in the Senate.

R231 yes I think those 2 other women were other governor's wives

I always thought "state rights" was the dog whistle of all dog whistles.

For R126

This docuseries is FANTASTIC. It's a shame it's on Showtime instead of Netflix, where it would, undoubtedly, be getting a lot more attention.

I'm just glad the Reagans are being exposed for the garbage human beings they were. Republicans must hate that this docuseries exist.

Can't wait until something like this comes out on Trump. And believe me, there will be plenty on Trump in the coming years and decades to come.

Expose all of these awful people.

I'm sure there will be plenty of Trump documentaries, R237, but the Reagans documentary is so effective because it challenges this almost collective mythology the country has about Reagan. I'm not sure there's any false mythology about Trump to shatter we (outside of his base) already know how awful he is.

Unfortunately, you still hear plenty of Americans from all walks of life and political parties speak of Reagan with reverence simply because he happened to be a decent public speaker. You know, like Joe Biden, who thinks that every Republican is just a friend he hasn't made yet.

Why did Ron Reagan participate in what he had to know would be a negative portrayal of his parents?

[quote]Republicans must hate that this docuseries exist.

It has a really low score on Imdb.com because they keep downvoting it

I'm going to have to check out the director's other work now. Looks like he has some interesting documentaries in his filmography on Valentino, Roy Cohn and others.

I do hope Matt Tyrnauer writes his memoirs. What fascinating stories he must have about gay Hollywood and power broking.

R242 - from his time at Vanity Fair or something else?

R241, He also made the Scotty Bowers documentary.

R244 - wouldn't he have put those details in his film?

[quote] from his time at Vanity Fair or something else?

That and more. He's a smart sexy guy who has interacted at a high level. You'd have to guess he has stories for days. There's a video of Scotty Bowers teasing that he was going to write HIS memoirs.

R239 Ron Reagan has always tried to be honest about his parents and his opinion of them from his political standpoint. He doesn't go out of his way to degrade them, but it's obvious he didn't agree with their politics.

R247, To me, he always comes across as a smug ingrate.

I just think the Reagans were garbage. Especially because Ronald went on and on about welfare queens, when he and his wife had benefactors supporting them their entire lives.

I guess most former presidents and first ladies have benefactors rather they're rich or not. But the fact that Ronald talked so much about welfare queens etc. And still took "handouts" from wealthy friends for decades, to me is super hypocritical.

Something else I don't understand about former Republican presidents. Is why do they except government funded perks, such as taxpayer funded secret service protection and the presidential allowances they receive when they leave office, especially if they hate government funded programs so much?

Former democratic presidents I have no problem with taking full advantage of these benefits. But the Republican ones I do. Because they seem to be so anti government programs while in office.

Again, Republicanism is chalk filled with hypocrisy.

r15 and Joe Biden is the most recent recipient of that swell of momentum and attention from the fourth estate.

I'm not saying I wanted Trump to win I'm Black and that was a nightmare I did not want to live through again. But the speed at which Biden was carried forward to get the nomination when he joined the race late was mind blowing. Particularly because so many voters jumped to support him so quickly and many of them admitted they were holding their nose and giving Joe their vote.

This system is totally broken, the two party system is a sham controlled by the Oligarchy and the media they own.

R2511 I wanted Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, but I knew that Trump would have a better chance of beating them because they were more progressive and he would have labelled them as socialists. Biden is acceptable for me and he's very experienced. He came up short during the first caucuses starting with the South Carolina primaries he was the front runner and he remained that way .The number one priority was to defeat Trump at all costs.

R252, And now we'll have President Magoo.

My Nephew was over (yes I live with my Mother ) and we all watch two episodes of this last night. He was all excited because he could see the thru line from Reagan to Trump, but my mother said all Reagan was doing was ripping out a page from Nixon who really did start it all The thing I realized is that Roger Stone's hands, and Paul Manafort's hands, and Roger Ailes who invented Fox NEws, all go right back to Nixon.

It's certainly true that the Southern Strategy didn't originate with Reagan. It's more than his gifts as a public figure weaponized it in a new way that we are still feeling the effects of today.

Again, watch Mrs. America on Hulu, it’s shocking to discover how Phyllis Shaftley is one of the main architects behind this. Luckily, he turn on her after winning, though maybe we would have been more awares of his deceit had he actually posted her to a key cabinet position?

The Reagans used ABORTION to swing Catholics. Never mind he was the first divorced president and she trapped him into marriage after PRE MARITAL sex!

Was Nancy Reagan gazing up at Ronald like he is Superman a joke back in the day?

R257, Ronnie was preparing to propose to Rhonda Fleming when Nancy informed him she was preggers.

That little nugget was in Kitty Kelley's book, but not in the Showtime documentary.

R258.

Cringe.

R258 - according to the doc it certainly was. They touched on that doe-eyed gaze in episode 2.

Doeeyedlook= I'm gonna suck you off in front of all these people Mr. President, but I won't because I'm a fucking Lady.

You know. I love my parents to death. They're both dead now. But they were homophobic racist people. I have no problem saying that. I was often hurt and disappointed in them. Love them, yes. But I acknowledge their limitations as human beings. I know Ron Reagan seems to have difficulty with that. His father was a fucking racist. And you know what? When your next door neighbor Joe, the accountant, is a racist, that's one thing. But when the President of the United States or a fucking governor of a state is a racist, and turns his racism into public policy, that's a whole other piece of shit.

No doubt apocryphal story that an old film director on his deathbed was told that Reagan had become president, and replied ‘oh no, Jimmy Stewart for president, Ronnie Reagan for best friend’.

Reagan used religion like no other president, more that Jimmy Carter, for political gain. Evangelicals and Catholics fell hard and heavy. You had working class union people suddenly voting for Republicans who hate unions, because they're so hung up over the abortion issue. Reagan can be thanked for that - the Repubs have used it very successfully ever since.

R264, that was asked of Jack Warner (not a director, not on his deathbed) when Reagan was Gov of California. "Hey, how about Ronald Reagan for president?" Warner replied, "No, Henry Fonda for president, Reagan as his best friend." No one, not ever, even joked about Jimmy Stewart as president.

Honestly the Trump cult is horrifying but the Reagan cult was so much larger. It had the media and the entire zeitgeist on its side. Sure there were protesters and and underground culture but honestly America loved flirting with the fascism the Reagan years hinted at.

It's the packaging. Reagan was "nice." He had tat image. His "sunny Disposition" and he was well spoken. Mario Cuomo said his affability make him seem benign. He wasn't at all. He was a vicious mean bastard. He was White Privilege personified.

R16 You're wrong. I hate Trump, but Regan was so much worse.

R269 The fact that Trump being anti-democratic, an outspoken white supremacist, a well documented con-man, owing over $400 million in debit to foreign interests, the most untruthful president by far, destroying US ties with our allies, and after more than 3 weeks after losing to Joe Biden is still mounting baseless claims in courts to overturn a fair election, is still not enough for people to claim other presidents were worse, leaves me little hope for the future of the US.

The doddering old man with Alzheimer's disease image protected him during the Iran Contra scandal.

R270 Reagan was also a white supremacist (he even vetoed a new Civil Rights Bill) and habitual liar with terrible foreign policy. Plus, he was a homophobe, who ignored the AIDS crisis and repealed the Mental Health Systems Act, two things that caused people to suffer for decades after he left office.

Cracked, of all places, has a pretty good overview of some of the worst things Reagan did. Though they left off his repeal of the Fairness Doctrine, which led to the rise of Trump.

Pres Gerald Ford's real opinion of Reagan was in the book Write It When I'm Gone. Ford spoke of Reagan as a superficial, intellectually lazy showman who didn't do his homework and clung to a naive, unrealistic, and essentially dangerous worldview.

My well educated brother loves Reagan. It's the TAX thing, that Reagan lowered TAXES. Why do so many men feel like taxes are the same as someone cutting their balls off?

Is the Reagan documentary available to watch anywhere without Showtime?

There is no way Reagan wasn't aware of the Iran-Contra deal.

r274 - no.

gags cant bring myself to watch it...they were gross shills for the super right wing fuks. hell with em

R277 - If you lived through the era, perhaps it's not for you. I'm a child of the 80s and 90s, but grew up in the UK and certainly didn't know much about the Reagans growing up. Thus far, I'm finding it fascinating and it is NOT a very flattering portrait of them. Also, the list of people the director got to speak on camera about the Reagans is quite impressive. And, thus far, even those who were in their inner circle are not afraid to speak very pointedly and honestly of the truth behind their public image.

R275, Reagan later admitted it. He claimed it was a mistake, others claimed it was Alzheimer's.

R278 What would be the consequences? They’ve both been dead for years

R273, that "tax thing" always makes people who support these monsters sound serious and practical. But it's bullshit. The goal of the Republican Party is to starve government and privatize everything. When they cut taxes, who makes up for it? The services and programs are still needed. So what they're really doing is shifting costs. It's a shell game. They shift costs to the states and local governments. Somebody always pays. There is no such thing as a real tax cut for voters. It's a shift not a cut. It only exists for the super rich and for corporate welfare. I suppose these true believers don't like to be confused with facts.

Thank you, r281.

We are seeing this right now with the Feds not showing up to contain covid.

States were forced to shoulder that burden and it's been a disaster with millions infected and over a quarter of of a million dead.

"Cas-ket Dan-cing!"

Why do people give presidential wife so much attention and credit? It's the president who makes the decisions, and if he listens to any substance or malarkey the wife comes up with - he is still responsible for his actions. I don't give a shit about any of the spouses, I don't blame a president's actions on his/her spouse. Nancy Reagan, Hillary Clinton, Melania Trump - it doesn't matter.

Some add'l perspective for you young ones - at the time of Reagan's election and presidency, he was seen as the glamorous alternative to Jimmy Carter. He looked like a president, he acted like a president, he was optimistic and had a nice personality - all the stupid superficial crap that sways 75% of the public.

In this instance its suggested Reagan suffered a cognitive decline while in office that was hidden from the public. It is suggested that Nancy had undue influence because the president was impaired. The Alzheimer diagnosis softened criticism against Reagan. If anything, the revelation of his impairment further illustrates the depths of their deception to remain in control of tax payer monies. This is about money. This is a grift for these people, not a call to higher service.

If anything, Nancy covered for Reagan, as in "he's under the weather today, and can't work." Then James Baker or whoever was Chief of Staff would cover by making decisions and crediting Reagan. Nancy did not run the presidency when Reagan was impaired.

R286, It was a guy by the name of Regan who was chief of staff and he regularly clashed with Nancy. If you think she didn't get down in the muck and slug it out, you'd be wrong. And she absolutely did influence the decision making process. She had a lot of weapons at her disposal. And Baker was long gone by then. Had he remained she could never have gained as much traction as she did. Look. I'll give you a parallel comparison. Trump has a chief of staff, Mark Meadows. Trump had Mulvaney, he had Kelley, he had Priebus. But did any of them ever get in JAred Kushner's way? They tried to limit him, they disagreed with him, they clashed with him. But they did not stop him.

That was Don Regan, R287. James Baker and Howard Baker were also Reagan's Chiefs of Staff.

I totally agree with you that Jared and Stephen Miller are way ahead of anyone in Trump's presidency, but Trump is not a normal president. Valerie Jarrett was vastly influential with Obama, but she didn't run him. I read all about Nancy Reagan's clashes with Don Regan in the 1980s, and while she may have had influence, she did not run Reagan's presidency when he was/was not impaired. The only reason I chose Chief of Staff over another official, is because that individual knows (should know) everything that's going on. Trump has turned everything upside down.

I know Patti and Nancy made up after Reagan’s Alzheimer diagnosis came out. Is Patti a Republican now? Who got their money, they cashed in and earned something like $15-20 million right after he left office, along with the house in Bel Air.

I am an episode behind, did they bring up Maureen and Michael? Nancy hated Michael but he’s the closest to Reagan in his political beliefs of all of the kids.

Nancy was obcessed with Jackie Kennedy. She wanted to be Jackie. She copied her clothes, wanted to know everything about her, because as she told an aide : "Jackie had power." Jackie wrote her a very nice note after Ronnie was shot. They started talking on the phone. Jackie asked Nancy to allow her old gay major domo pal J.B.West to be buried at Arlington and Nancy arranged it as Mommie said "a favor one First Lady to another" Reagan actually attended a fundraiser for the JFK library. The Kennedys were friendlier to repug Reagans than to Jimmy Carter a fellow dem who they despised.

[quote] The Kennedys were friendlier to repug Reagans than to Jimmy Carter a fellow dem who they despised.

This is reason number 100000 why the Kennedy mystique needs to die. Jesus Christ, that family is so overrated and I say that as someone who likes JFK and Bobby (but prefers Dems like FDR, Truman, Obama and even Carter over them). Ted Kennedy sabotaged both Nixon AND Carter's healthcare plans which were excellent. Ted hated Carter for petty reasons and felt he should have been the presidential nominee instead of him in 1980...he felt entitled to the nomination since, you know, he's a Kennedy and they are "American Roylaty". Once again, Republicans benefitted from Democrat infighting and we all know how that turned ot.

The Reagans crawled so the Trumps could run. Or waddle, as it were.

The Kennedy family are martyrs, two public assignations and multiple personal tragedies.

Jackie, who was not a Kennedy by birth demonstrated grace and the stiff upper lip Americans claim to value.

Dump's whining and boorishness undermines American values.

That bitch Nancy actually thought Ronnie had a shot at a Nobel Peace Prize.

Plenty of people loathed them at the time, OP. I remember an anecdote about someone's grandfather waking up in the hospital. The neurologist gave him a cognitive test. "Do you know who the president is?" "That son-of-a-bitch Ronald Reagan!"

R291 Ted Kennedy was a fucking moron. There was no way he was getting that nomination after Mary Jo Kopechne's death. Plus, trying to primary a sitting president was just stupid, no matter how unpopular they are. I don't know if you remember, or if you've even read up on his presidential campaign, but it was just embarrassing, - and that was with the Kennedy name and a ton of money behind him.

I didn't watch it, but I was glad when that Chappaquiddick movie came out a couple of years ago, because it seemed to wake a lot of people up to what a POS Ted Kennedy was.

[quote] Plus, trying to primary a sitting president was just stupid,

And it sends a message to the people and the opposition that Dems are fractured.; And that's exactly the kind of shit that allows Republicans to win when they do. Well, that and cheating.

[quote] I was glad when that Chappaquiddick movie came out a couple of years ago, because it seemed to wake a lot of people up to what a POS Ted Kennedy was.

I do have to give Ted credit for being "the lion of the senate". He has been behind much legislation that has been passed. But I can't forgive his letting his ego get in the way of the 1980 election.

Monsters

[quote] Jackie, who was not a Kennedy by birth demonstrated grace and the stiff upper lip Americans claim to value

American's value a stiff upper lip, really? That's something I associate more with the upper class English.

r293 Two public 'assignations'? lol I believe you mean 'assassinations'. They mean entirely different things. But, they could both be used to describe actions of the Kennedys.

American stoicism and bootstrapping is a thing. Jackie did demo that spectacularly after the president's assassination. She was traumatized but her dignity represented the best values we claim to value even while we elect a mouth breathing cretin like Dump.

R299. You have no right to critique after Dump.

A joke I heard on CSPAN. This guy was going to introduce a pre-politician Reagan to an audience. But he was unsure of the pronunciation of Reagan’s last name. Was it Ray-gun or Ree-gun? The emcee approaches a man on the street walking his dog & asks for some assistance with the pronunciation. The man tells in his inquisitor that Reagan is pronounced Ray-gun. Thanks, the emcee says. By the way, he said, that’s a cute dog you got. What breed is it? It’s a bagel, the man said.

R291 & 296, you must not be old enough to have been politically aware in the late ‘70s, but, coming from someone who is, let me assure you how very unpopular Jimmy Carter was among Democrats then. Ted Kennedy was their hope that a real Democrat could be president. And before his candidacy tanked over the Iranian hostage crisis, the Roger Mudd interview & his general failings as a candidate, he had a two-to-one lead over Carter in polls of Democrats.

I remember reading that Ron was estranged from his Mother in the years before her death. If true, does anyone know what was behind the estrangement?

Carter is a fucking Saint compared to these freaks.

Carter is a fucking Saint compared to these freaks.

R304, [italic]I'm[/italic] a fucking saint compared to the Reagans. Unfortunately, saints don't make good presidents. We need someone at least a little dirty or else he or she won't be able to get anything done in D.C.

I love bukkake!

I was born in 1976 so too young to remember, but were the Carter years really that bad?

I once read somewhere that the Reagans always had Graham crackers ice cream cakes and cookies out upstairs in the private residence of the white house, as well as at their home in bel air.

That must've been for Ronnie, because Nancy was a very thin woman and looked as though she never ate anything.

I have seen a lot of photos of Ronald Reagan eating cake and ice cream. I guess he had a huge sweet tooth. They said Nancy always kept his favorite treats around for him.

The Reagans were puppets for their billionaire/millionaire overlords. The both of them were actors and they did what they were told to. I read Ronald was very disinterested in the actual job of being president and often had no clue as to what was going on.

He was a great orator and good at preforming the ceremonial role of president, but had no clue of foreign policy and really didn't understand how Washington worked, Sounds familiar?

They knew they had to follow orders, because they were being bankrolled by right wing rich assholes who wanted certain things turned into policy. Or all of the benefits they received from their wealthy benefactors would come to a screeching halt. Besides, those were the people who played a huge role in the becoming president and first lady.

Ronald was not a conservative, he was whatever he was told be. He was just a vessel to give the right wing and the Republicans whatever they wanted. He was an actor after all.

Reagan and Trump really are one in the same!

Richard Pryor knew, at :16.

[quote] I was born in 1976 so too young to remember, but were the Carter years really that bad?

Do yourself a favor and read the majestic Reaganland by Rick Perlstein.

Reagan had a rooting, tooting cowboy swagger compared to Carter who is an educated man.Reagan was tough on the ay.rabs, Carter was too conciliatory. Turns out the hostage situation was another Republican grift to Reagan installed.

to GET Reagan installed.

[quote] I was born in 1976 so too young to remember, but were the Carter years really that bad?

Carter had the misfortune of being president at the exact juncture that manufacturing in the US fell into smithereens.

Reagan also took credit for some of Carter's accomplishments. And he was so childish, he ripped Carter's solar panels off the White House roof.

Sounds very Trumpian.

Trumpian in the sense of being childish, otherwise, even Ronald Reagan had better sense than Trump. In Texas, politicians say "you gotta dance with the one who brung ya." (Your local politicians will state this in their own vernacular.) But you don't desert the people who put you in office. Trump has no fucking idea what that means or how to do it. He is the most disloyal person I've ever seen in the political arena. Rich people kept the Reagans as pets, and the Reagans repaid them.

R315 That type of gesture is the kind of ignorance and spite that makes the pukes wet.

Jonathan Alter's biography of Jimmy Carter's Presidency just came out and it's worth a read. I remember Carter well. it was the first campaign my friends & I worked on. He was an outsider. Definitely not part of the Washington Establishment. He was "Jimmy Who?" When he took office, he brought all the people who worked for him in Georgia, to the White House. Hamilton Jordan was chief of staff, and Jody Powell was Press Secretary.

He was determined to give us a new energy policy. He put some muscle and funding behind the EPA. He was determined to embrace Human Rights. He was Determined to do something about land reclamation and environmental pollution of our water, our land and air. Our dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil were a sore point with him in the 70's!

He was hated by Russia, because of how he used the tribal factions to fight against Russia's invasion of Afghanistan, and win. It was a humiliating blow and cost Russia blood and treasure. Then he pulled us out of the Olympics because of Russia. And people were totally pissed off about that.

There were forces out there who did one hell of a propaganda job on Carter with help from Carter. You add his own ineptness, bcz he had a rough time getting along with Congress. Even his own party often got pissed at him. He had a sanctimonious bent, and expressed himself inartfully at times.

But he did an excellent job of helping American cities, and he was right on energy, and the environment, and Human Rights. And let's not forget. The Camp David Accords, Peace treaties between Israel and Egypt, were ground breaking. Russia hated him and Iran was Russia's client. Iran was the instrument of his defeat.

Yes he fucked up, but he wasn't nearly as inept as you have been led to believe. When I look at what Reagan and Bush got away with, I have to go back to the fact that the Republicans are great on spin and messaging and piss poor at governing. And yes, Teddy Kennedy really did us wrong by challenging Carter in 1980. he really fucked him up softened him up for Reagan. It was shameful.

Excellent point, R320. Reaganism and all it wrought should be remembered as part of Teddy Kennedy's legacy.

[quote] Yes he fucked up, but he wasn't nearly as inept as you have been led to believe. When I look at what Reagan and Bush got away with, I have to go back to the fact that the Republicans are great on spin and messaging and piss poor at governing. And yes, Teddy Kennedy really did us wrong by challenging Carter in 1980. he really fucked him up softened him up for Reagan. It was shameful.

Reagan also took credit for the 80s economy which was largely Carter's doing. Carter started necessary deregulation of industries and most importantly, it was his hiring of Paul Vocker that ended the stagflation of the 70s. Reagan wanted to fire him!

It’s little remembered, but Jimmy Carter was so unpopular within his own party that not only did Ted Kennedy challenge him for the nomination but so did Jerry Brown, then in his 2nd term of his initial governorship. So even if Kennedy had declined to run, Carter would have been in trouble in the general against Reagan having undergone a primary challenge from a substantial opponent.

don't forget anderson, he garnered a shocking amount of the vote in 1980

Anderson didn’t run in the Democratic primaries, R324.

Has anyone mentioned Lee Atwater? Talk about a piece of work.

[quote]It's the packaging. Reagan was "nice." He had tat image. His "sunny Disposition" and he was well spoken. Mario Cuomo said his affability make him seem benign. He wasn't at all. He was a vicious mean bastard. He was White Privilege personified.

One of the commentators on the latest episode noted the disconnect between his shitty policies and his relentless upbeatness. The episode also showed him getting called to the carpet during a press conference over budget cuts, and he seemed genuinely taken aback—not in a "Trump sitting at the baby desk" way, but shocked that people perceived him as mean-spirited.

My maternal grandmother, whom I adored, fell for the whole Reagan PR persona hook, line and sinker. She sent some sort of note or card to The White House and unexpectedly got back a glossy 8 by 11 glossy photo of Reagan. She was thrilled and bought an expensive frame and proudly displayed it in her living room the rest of her life.

We never had the heart to tell her the signature was printed and not personally autographed as she thought.

^ I didn't post the above as some sweet family reminiscence. The thread is about how the Reagan's fooled America. That's how they fooled my sweet Grandma, with a fake autograph. But they got her name and address on their mailing list and that's how she came to open her checkbook every time they sent out a mass mailing requesting money.

^ Reagans, not Reagan's. Whatever.

My cousin’s son is named Reagan. Upon learning this, I asked my mother why the child was named aftet one of the witches in Macbeth.

Didn't she ask you what MacBeth is?

You mean King Lear's daughter, right r331? If so, they named her Regan because they knew what would happen if they named her Goneril.

My grandfather was a contemporary of Reagan's , knew him professionally (as SGA president)....and fucking LOATHED HIM!! Thought he was an idiot of the first order, and generally an awful human being. When Reagan was president & appeared on TV (press conferences, State of the Union address, etc), my grandfather had to leave the room because he so disgusted. He just couldn't stand listening to him. Couldn't believe this dumb twat was president of the United States.

Oh, Papa.....

My grandmother went to high school with Reagan in Peoria, IL. She was younger and bookish and he older and a jock, so they didn’t hang out at all. Her classmate though was betty Friedan who she was friends with.

R302 You're a pompous twit. I've met both Jimmy Carter and Teddy K. Worked on their campaigns in 76 and 80 respectively. Never assume. It makes you look foolish.

People forget how insanely popular Jimmy Carter was in 1976. Coming on the heals of Nixon and the Vietnam War Mr. Peanut was looked upon as the democratic savior of the republic. By 1980 he was a laughing stock.

Interesting thread. I've been recording the series and will watch it upon recording the final episode this upcoming Sunday. It was mentioned up thread about the unions and how the Repukes/Reagan were out to destroy them. They also implemented significant changes to the CSRS (Civil Service Retirement System) back in the mid-80's. A 'new' TSP (Thrift Saving Plan) was designed to replace the CSRS (of which I was a part of) and they offered (encouraged) those under CSRS to transfer over to the 'new' system because it was 'better'. The real reason was because the CSRS was more generous and they wanted to 'save money' (read screw the retiree) were the TSP was funded by the employee with a matching portion of up to 5% depending on factors I don't recall. Anyway I had about 12 years in the CSRS then (started working for the Federal Govt. in 1973) so I remained in the CSRS and was able to put up to 5% of my income - off the top - no taxes paid on the contributions but with no matching funds from the Govt. Needless to say my retirement income (Govt. Pension) is far greater than if I had transferred over to the TSP. Most civil servants at the time didn't pay into the SS system - but were required to pay 1% of their salary into the Medicare fund. I get a good pension plus draw against my TSP balance (taxed at a lower rate due to reduced income compared to when I worked). Even before this policy was being devised I thought Reagan was a dolt and he was just a puppet (so true now) that seemed to always be taking naps and falling asleep at meets and other gatherings. Of course I was much younger then and really didn't focus much on politics. The last 4 years of chaos have enlightened me greatly which may be what many needed to see the true evil of the Repukes and the political system in general.

I do credit sites like DL and the many who contribute knowledgeable info which is informative and entertaining depending on the topic.

R5, JFK gave his life. STFU.

R331, Regan was a daughter of King Lear, not a character in "Macbeth."

[quote] People forget how insanely popular Jimmy Carter was in 1976. Coming on the heals of Nixon and the Vietnam War Mr. Peanut was looked upon as the democratic savior of the republic. By 1980 he was a laughing stock.

Huh?! Jimmy Carter was the ultimate outsider who did well in the early primaries, most particularly slaying George Wallace in Florida, but he did run against a rather weak opposition. There was then an ABC, Anyone but Carter, movement among Democrats to deny him the nomination, which saw him late lose primaries to the belated candidacies of Jerry Brown & Frank Church. There was even a very concerted effort to draft Hubert Humphrey, which looked like it was going to be successful until Humphrey ultimately decided not to run. Then, a nominated Carter almost blew a 30-point lead over Ford, winning the general in a squeaker that most believed would've ended differently had it been held a few days later.

[quote] [R302] You're a pompous twit. I've met both Jimmy Carter and Teddy K. Worked on their campaigns in 76 and 80 respectively. Never assume. It makes you look foolish.

Other than assuming you might be too young to remember the era, what exactly did I get wrong that makes me a foolish, pompous twit, R336?! Are you arguing that President Carter was particularly popular among his fellow Democrats?

"I was born in 1976 so too young to remember, but were the Carter years really that bad?"

YES, not that 75% of it was his fault, but Carter didn't know how to communicate. Carter was a micromanager who didn't know how to deal with a congress of HIS OWN PARTY. All of you who think Jimmy Carter was a saint based on his post-presidency, read up. Though reading cannot convey the feeling that everyone had - that we were sinking, sinking fast.

There was a draft Kennedy movement, his candidacy was not just of his own ego. Btw, the whole Roger Mudd interview that every pundit (usually not born in 1979) uses as why Ted Kennedy wasn't ready to run against Carter - is bullshit. Jaws was on TV that night and won the ratings by a landslide, few were watching Roger Mudd. Second, Kennedy had not yet declared his candidacy. Being 1979, it shouldn't have been such a big deal. (I was watching Mudd and Kennedy.)

R303 "I remember reading that Ron was estranged from his Mother in the years before her death. If true, does anyone know what was behind the estrangement? "

Sanity?

I keep trying to tell folks that the whole thing is a sham for the masses. Other folks run this shit, and the prez is just frontin for em!

The feeling we were sinking badly under a Carter administration and rescued by Reagan is a Republican narrative.

We can't allow these grifters to continue to shape this conversation, they will not stop lying.

R344, if so, he found his sanity late in life because they had always been close.

With all the talk here about Carter, I've been hoping against hope that (1) he'd survive the pandemic so his ultimate death can be properly acknowledged by a thankful nation, and (2) he'd survive the Trump Administration so his ultimate death can be properly acknowledged by a sitting Democratic president.

Carter lousy POTUS great former POTUS.

Speed. It. Up?

What the fuck!

Those people need to be physically destroyed. They should not be running our country or government. Politicans are fucking spineless.

If anyone really wants to get a good sense of Carter and his time in the WH and realizing what we now know about foreign actors meddling in our affairs, and also how the Media is a tool that shapes the narrative and the messaging, Read Jonathan Alter's new book about Carter. it's an eye opener.

What I Remember most vividly was how during Reagan's inauguration they kept cutting from the Inauguration to the hostages being released. Anyone care to discuss the collusion between the Republicans and the Russians and Iranians concerning our hostage crisis?

Just caught up on everything. This is an excellent series, but 4 episodes seems too short to cover all of the greed and misdeeds of Ron & Nancy. Shame it couldn't have been a longer 8 or 10 episode series.

Was Henry Fonda a Democrat?

I'm actually glad this didn't screen before the election. It may have inspired some butt hurt right-wing-nut-jobs to vote Republican in defense of their hero's portrayal of The Emporer's New Clothes. Instead, seeing it now, it's a good summation of the culture.

Every now and then I feel compelled to state.....

Your Grandparents (aka, the Greatest Generation) were able to bequeath a bit of money to their offspring because of how high the interest rates on their Savings Accounts and CDs were (double digits!) during the Carter Administration. True, loan interest rates were high, but it was a banner time for the frugal.

I agree. slam the shit out of his memory now

Yes, R354, he was known as a liberal.

Correct, R346. Both sides use that narrative when it works for them and most people buy it. The economy is cyclical, and no matter who is president, there are ups and downs. We were headed for a recession in 2020/2021 and whoever was president was going to be blamed. Covid made it come faster...the only good thing about this disaster is it prevented Trump from being re-elected.

R354, Henry Fonda was a liberal, but he thought his daughter had a few screws loose in the early 1970s (so did I). Everyone always mentions how left leaning Henry Fonda was best friends with stick-up-the-butt conservative who let his son be drafted and die in Vietnam, James Stewart.

R359 I really believe Trump was going to lose the 2020 election anyway. To many in this country wanted him gone because of his behavior and his unfitness as president etc.

Most people were sitting back and waiting for election time to come around, they saw that as their chance to get rid of Dump. I was one of those people. It didn't matter if there was a virus or not. Trump had to go.

Because the idea of another four years of Trump was way to much to bar for some people. I really believe he was always going to lose.

I agree r361. A recession was coming anyway and Presidents don’t get re-elected in a recession -FDR is an outlier. He also would have turned the George Floyd protests into an all out race war.

The only thing good about Covid is it ensured he wouldn’t be re-elected; his flaying and denials of the severity of the pandemic didn’t appeal to anyone but his most ardent base, and he needed to keep the Obama/Clinton/traditional Republican voters he got to vote for him in 2016 to stay with him in 2020. That was already a tall order, but people were willing to overlook his horrid behavior because the economy was strong. American voters only make regime changes at the four year mark when their personal interests are injured by the incumbent president-either through the economy or a military draft.

Congratulations, fascists - you got the OP F&F'd.

But the truth that Reagan set the U.S. on its current rapid descent in third-world shithole country status will not be so easily erased.

R361, that's what I thought, but the election was not a Biden blowout. No Covid, Trump had a better than good chance at re-election. Surprising as that feels, it's true.

I think the net effect of COVID on Trump's campaign was approximately zero - for every voter who was justifiably outraged at King Donald's complete failure to confront the pandemic, there was another whose attachment to their Leader was solidified by a constant diet of COVID denialism and QAnon nuttery.

I thought young Ron Reagan was geeky sexy. He looked extremely fuckable in his ballet tutu.

Don't care if this thread is gray, Reagan is the beginning of this country's descent into turd world status.

Jesus Christ. I can't believe the OP got F&F'd. Why are there so many fucking conservative self-hating gays on this site?

because they are cunts

I'll second R365. Having the misfortune of coming from a family full of Trumptard GOP cultists, nothing that the man or party ever did swayed them in the slightest. They just became progressively even more looney. Fox "News" continued to poison the ignorant and Facebook and QAnon adjacent RWNJ sources riled them even further into delusion. Those of us who were going to crawl over glass to vote him out were going to do so before COVID ever hinted its existence late last year. I do know Republicans who held their noses and voted for him the first time - a few years into his term, they swore up and down to not vote at all in 2020. I was hoping that they would vote for Biden instead, but as far as I know - they just stayed home. It takes time to come to terms with your entire political identity being based on a lie and time to figure out where to go from there when you have been indoctrinated your entire life into the "religious" cult that is the GOP. One of my best friends WAS a lifelong Republican and couldn't bring herself to vote for either Trump or Clinton 4 years ago (the Repugs really did a long-lasting smear campaign on Hillary sadly). She sat out this year as well. My closest friend was what I would call nonpartisan (voted for Dubya once, Kerry, then Obama once and skipped out the Romney/Obama election). He also skipped 2016 (too many family members poisoning him about Clinton, but disliked Trump). After 4 years of Trump, he is basically a Dem activist now (called all younger family members, friends and acquaintances weekly all year leading up to the election to encourage them to first vote and second to vote Biden). I digress, but no - I don't believe that COVID did any more than make it crystal clear that you either hated Dump and the GOP or dug in deep and drank even more of that crazy GOP Kool-Aid.

Not voting at all is surrender. I pity people like that

R370 There are a significant number of Trump supporters that believe Trump no matter what he says or does and no matter what the realities are. These are cultists. There are also an unknown number of Trump supporters that know he's incompetent and spews nothing but lies, but he's still their guy, because he's pushing alternate realities they want to believe. For them it's tribalism.

In an interview for his new Carter biography, Jonathan Alter said that Jimmy Carter is now blind as a result of a subdural hematoma he suffered after falling last year.

YOu know, apropos of Trump and his unshakable supporters, I think the reason the old norms didn't apply, is because of the internet. Not just the fake news and the false information that was broadcast, not only because of social media, but also because, in the past, when an Access Hollywood tape or something equally scandalous was exposed, people fell back on the traditional ways we as a society usually react. But with the internet, people "find" one another. And when you find a large group of people who shout very loudly that Trump is cool, you sort of fall in line. Sheeple really is a good word for it.

R374 Not only that, but Trump isn't a real politician and he's always behaved the way he does and talked the way he does. So the norms of American politics and Washington couldn't get him in line with the way things are normally done.

Trump even said, "you knew exactly who I was when I was running for president and when you voted for me." So there's that too.

That's why he's been able to get away with everything so far. But we'll see what's going to become of he and his family once he leaves office, most likely probably nothing unfortunately. But we'll see I guess.

Good point, R375....like the old saying goes," You knew I was a snake when you took me in..."

R373

Terrible news.

yeah, I agree

This thread could've been interesting, discussing the current Reagan documentary. Instead we got yet another Trump thread. Do you people know how to talk about anything else?

we are slowly weening off him, but he has had a unrelenting twitter-fest for the past eight years.

US presidents and presidential candidates always had a public image persona to present, part marketing tool, part agenda tool. Reagan presented the latter day John Wayne type persona with a semi-folksy demeanor. But behind it was a corporate and privatization agenda. When an elected official is trying to make government the bad guy, there is something fucked up. He was a governor and president so that ideology is fucked up. You can push forward the idea that government needs to be more effective, but he's the first president to want to replace public agencies with private companies. It's a con-man gimmick along the lines of an Ayn Rand novel that private entrepreneurs are smart and efficient but government is wasteful and incompetent. Trump took that idea and ran it on steroid.

Reagan got fucked in the end for everything he did wrong. He wasn't stupid, he knew exactly what he was doing. Nancy too.

I just don't understand why people allow money and power to corrupt them. Dump is the perfect example for it too.

Agreed, r381. A pathetic legacy.

You know, it occurs to me that Republicans truly believe that ANYONE can run for and actually become President. They seem to embrace figureheads. Reagan was the front man. Yes he was also a true believer in the Republicans' agenda, but he was a front man. And remember, Cheney ran Bush 43.

Republicans only want a PR Representative in office. There absolutely are others behind the man pulling his strings - takes orders.

Here's a very good and relevant article (I hope it doesn't get Murieled).

Jonathan Alter, Carter's biographer, believes that then-Fed Chairman Paul Volcker, a great admirer of Carter & later a friend, was responsible for Carter's defeat. And Reagan's landslide re-election.

My son attended a college in Virginia, majoring in political science. I went for parents day; they sent us to our kid's classes to meet the professors. One professor was the head of the political science department. He had told the students he had worked for Jimmy Carters White House staff. I don't remember what his position was. Not sure why I remember this, but I do.

When it was time for some parent's questions, one man asked, what was he like working for the Carter White House?

He got quiet, (paraphrasing) then said: It was an extremely frustrating experience. They had all kinds of unnecessary procedural rules to follow. A dozen people had to sign off on a simple memo. Add to that it was the most unorganized office I have ever worked in. It was pretty much chaos every day and was impossible to get anything actually done.

R387, Paul Volcker raised interest rates to the hilt after being appointed by Carter (and re-appointed by Reagan). That's because the economy's number one problem was 10% inflation. Everybody knew interest rates had to be raised for years, only Carter and Volcker had the courage to do it. Reagan reaped the rewards in the 1980s.

I was around, and I'm sure that high interest rates had something to do with Carter's failure to win re-elections. But so did everything else -gas lines, Iran hostage crisis, Carter's lack of communication skills...all rolled into one. I was not fond of Jimmy Carter, but I hated Reagan.

I just finished part four. Ronnie and Nancy were two of the most evil people who have ever been in public life. Absolute evil trash.

Thank god the Reagan legacy has become quite tarnished in recent times. There's a better, more realistic and critical way of looking at Reagan these days and that's good for everyone.

Reading Maureen Dowd's profile of Candace Bergen in the Sunday Times. it was noted that Candy was the only one of whom it could be said was friends of both Nancy Reagan & Huey Newton. I say that any friend of Candace Bergen cannot be all bad. And in reading the new Baker & Glasser bio of James Baker, it is noted that Nancy Reagan played orchestrated the appointment of Baker, a Bush/Ford hand, as her husband's chief of staff in 1981 because she didn't want the right-wing crazies to dominate the administration.

That astrology shit was just insane! It should've been stopped by Reagan's cabinet immediately but nobody had the balls to tell Nancy to quit with it.

The Reagan’s consulted astrologers for years and built their schedules around them.

When Reagan was sworn in as CA governor in 1967 he insisted on it happening in the middle of the night because of a reading Nancy got from Jeane Dixon. Joan Quigley had been used by Nancy since the late 60s; Kitty Kelley noted in her book that Quigley was one of the few service providers that Nancy actually paid for.

Kitty Kelley went into detail about the schedule. Apparently Don Regan and Nancy would conduct a conference call with the astrologer and calendars were color coded on whether they were good or bad days for Reagan to appear in public.

One day Ronald Reagan wanted to go to Baltimore to see the first baseball game of the season. He decided to do it on the spur of the moment on a day when Joan Quigley warned Nancy and Don Regan that Reagan couldn’t leave the White House because the threat of assassination was high on that day. Nancy was ballistic when she found out he had left the White House and told Don Regan he would be personally responsible if anything happened to the President.

Part of the reason the White House was so challenged when trying to address Iran Contra was that Joan Quigley advised Nancy to keep him out of the public eye for something like 30 days at the time. Regan overrode her and Reagan had a disastrous press conference which caused his poll numbers to plummet.

insane and criminal

Amazing that nobody in government said to Ronnie "sorry Ronnie, this astrology shit with your cunt of a wife has to go." It was not only insane, but a political disaster.

"The Reagan’s consulted astrologers"

Why do people use apostrophes for plurals these days?

Because I was typing on my phone, r397, on my lunch break. I see another grammatical error I made that you didn’t point out , you strident prisspot.

Why did Reagan always say, "Well...," so often?

R399 Because Reagan was an empty vessel.

Amazing the Regan administration got a pass with that " I don't remember" bullshit testimony during Iran Contra.

Reagan got away with everything. In today's world, I don't think he would be able to.

All I remember is Grenada, $1800 toilet seats, and his eldest daughter Maureen walking into the Inaugural festivities holding hands with Kunta Kinte! That chick could cunt!

Kunta kinte???? Who did she show up with?

Maureen adopted a little girl from Uganda in the early 90s and Reagan adored her as his memory faded with Alzheimer’s. So his best friend as the dementia overcame him was a little black girl.

Levar Burton

When I watched the Showtime series, I noticed a clip from Election Night 1980 with an electoral map that showed blue states as Republican and red states as Democratic. Did the switch take place with the 2000 election?

it did

I thought Reagan served in the military until I read this bs

Ronald Reagan was whatever he was told to be. He was an image of Americana and the all American white male during his Hollywood years.

And that's the image he brought with him into politics during the mid twentieth century, and it worked. I guess it would work today to in what's left of the Republican party. But Reagan has always been whatever his corporate overlords and benefactors to him to be. He didn't run shit, he did what he was told to do, or else.

Here they are aboard the Britannia, working the Queen's last nerve....

goodness!