Just started watching it last night and the old thread is almost full.
I’m 2 episodes in.
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Just started watching it last night and the old thread is almost full.
I’m 2 episodes in.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||Yesterday at 3:06 PM|
Watched all of both The Vow and Seduced. The Vow white washes a lot of the evil. Mark is such a smarmy asshole. He was Keith's second in command for 12 yrs, so he knew what was going on. When he saw the writing on the wall, he rigged it so he wouldn't get charged by turning over tons of video and audio recordings to the FBI. India should be in jail too. Her connections shielded her. Both India (along with her mother) and Mark have done everything they can through these two docs to control the narrative so they look like victims. And they 'were' victims---to a point.
One thing is clear, they are ALL shitting themselves about their collateral. They don't know who has it, where it is or how/when it will surface.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||11/11/2020|
I don't think Mark has any collateral. Only the DOS women.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||11/11/2020|
Any idea why Sara Bronfman wasn't charged with anything? Was she unaware of DOS, despite her sister's deep involvement? She definitely poured a lot of money into the cult.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||11/11/2020|
R2, all the members, except maybe Mark, whom Keith wanted to succeed him in running the whole cult, gave blackmail material in one form or another. Mark recorded much of the damning material the male members were coerced into providing.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||11/11/2020|
I’ll bet some loyal cult member has something on Mark...it be leaked eventually. Based on his reaction to the dog bed incident I imagine he’s thoroughly clenched 24/7 at the thought of it.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||11/11/2020|
R5, Keith certainly does and when he finally accepts he’s not getting out of his 120 year sentence, I hope he confesses all the things that’ll nail Mark to the wall.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||11/11/2020|
There were two scenes in the last Seduced episode that shocked me. How happy Allison Mack was when she sold India for money to Keith. She should go to jail for a long time, wow.
And the Mexican press publishing Sarah's branding ceremony. Did they show that on tv in Mexico? Is that even legal?
|by Anonymous||reply 7||11/11/2020|
I’m on the episode where Mark and Bonnie go and get their stuff out of storage. By now as a viewer I have heard endless babbling coming from Keith. It’s a mystery how this guy and people like trump are able to brainwash people with such nonsensical ramblings. My God!
|by Anonymous||reply 8||11/12/2020|
Queef Raniere has a huge cock!
|by Anonymous||reply 9||11/12/2020|
How was Allison Mack able to sell India? And what was up with Allison Mack's marriage to Nicki Clyne? The set of Battlestar Galactica set must have been a hoot back then.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||11/13/2020|
People think Mack married Nicki so she could stay in the country.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||11/13/2020|
Seduced says clearly that Kieth demanded that Mack marry Nicki to stay in the country because she was from Canada. That’s why I’m surprised that it hasn’t been declared illegal and Nicki been deported. Wasn’t India also the witness for the marriage, which might have legal issues for her as well right?
|by Anonymous||reply 12||11/13/2020|
When will Keith be interviewed ob camera from jail?
|by Anonymous||reply 13||11/13/2020|
R13, part of his sentence forbids him from speaking publicly about NXIVM ever again.
|by Anonymous||reply 14||11/13/2020|
Keith will become Queef
|by Anonymous||reply 15||11/13/2020|
I thought the Vow has extensive recording from before the trial they are building season 2 around?
|by Anonymous||reply 16||11/13/2020|
All I know is that they are having season 2 next year.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||11/13/2020|
I don’t find the Catherine oxen berg segments interesting at all.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||11/13/2020|
Your spelling of her name R18 is phonic. She is not "the" Catherine. She is Catherine Oxenberg. How hard is it to spell someone's name correctly R18?
|by Anonymous||reply 19||11/13/2020|
I wanna be able to call up the Windsors when I'm mad about something.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||11/13/2020|
It was a typo you stupid idiot. The “the” is because the phrase finishes with segments.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||11/14/2020|
[quote]The set of Battlestar Galactica
Nicki Clyne was fired in the third season of that show and her character met with the show's in-universe most ignominious end (she was thrown out of an airlock) after several episodes of her having a slow breakdown involving a lot of closeup shots of her makeup-free and ugly crying/screaming for entire scenes and generally becoming loathsome. Many fans at the time wondered jokingly if the showrunners hated her to do all that. The year that episode was filmed would have been 2007, the year she joined the cult, so it's possible the two were related.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||11/15/2020|
Like someone in the first thread said, The entire season of Seduced was to paint India as a victim. Finding those flash drives was her get out of jail free card. Hearing Keithos discussing the design of the brand with Allison was fantastic and horrifying at the same time.
|by Anonymous||reply 23||11/16/2020|
I don’t get the channel seduced was on so I don’t know all the details that series revealed. Maybe it will have some of that stuff on The Vow 2.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||11/16/2020|
All eps of Seduced here:
|by Anonymous||reply 25||11/16/2020|
That didn’t work on my phone but thanks anyway r25.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||11/16/2020|
r26, it'll work if you download the MEGA app
|by Anonymous||reply 27||11/16/2020|
I did tho. It says it’s download started and then nothing happens,
|by Anonymous||reply 28||11/16/2020|
r23, India was 19 when she joined, pretty young and naive. I see her more of a victim than Mark who was how old when he joined his second (!) cult?
|by Anonymous||reply 29||11/16/2020|
Yeah, I don't think Mark is much of a victim. A dumbass and a sucker, maybe, but not a true victim like teenagers getting enslaved.
|by Anonymous||reply 30||11/17/2020|
r30, Keith wanted Mark to succeed him in running the cult. He was far more than just dumb ass. He invented the men's group that trained other men how to be abusive psychos to women.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||11/17/2020|
I think Mark Vincente is a push over and he admitted he had issues around his masculinity but it’s Keith that’s a psychopath.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||11/17/2020|
R32, Mark taught the men in SOP how to be better misogynists. He was gross and evil enough that Keith saw him as a successor. He filled the home he shares with Bonnie with cameras so she felt she couldn’t make any private phone calls. He made her sleep in a dog bed on the floor for disobeying him. He abused both Catherine and Bonnie on camera in The Vow. And continues to refuse to take any responsibility for his behavior. He’s awful.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||11/17/2020|
After watching both series,I really would like to know what Keith and Nancy set out to do. Was the entire thing designed to cheat people out of money with their ESP bullshit? I noticed Nancy seemed to be free of any criminal charges regarding DOS- did she know the scope of the goings on?
|by Anonymous||reply 34||11/17/2020|
He still has devout followers and they sound and behave no differently than Manson followers.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||11/17/2020|
Keith had the women fly down to Mexico to give him a group blow job?? Okay.
|by Anonymous||reply 36||11/17/2020|
Mark is one ugly guy. Bonnie is clearly not deprogrammed.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||11/17/2020|
I would love to be a fly on the wall to hear what Princess Elizabeth of Yugoslavia has to say about India's new pizza-baking husband.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||11/17/2020|
I thought it was funny when Catherine had to name drop Prince Charles asking her mother to talk to him about the Dalai Lama and her mother was basically *crickets* they are second cousins and probably never speak.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||11/18/2020|
Mark? What the Bleep does he know.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||11/18/2020|
[quote]He was gross and evil enough that Keith saw him as a successor.
I don't buy the successor thing. Typically, a successor is younger than the person he is succeeding. Keith and Mark are the same damn age. What's the point of grooming a successor who is going to die or retire at the same time you are?
|by Anonymous||reply 41||11/18/2020|
Yeah I don’t recall any talk of Mark being a successor in The Vow. Maybe it came up in Seduced.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||11/18/2020|
R42, it’s in his court testimony.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||11/18/2020|
I think Mark is younger than Keith by about 15 years.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||11/18/2020|
Did anyone see the last episode of Seduced? At the end, after the victim impact statements, Mark and Bonnie come out and Mark goes right to the microphones. The look on Bonnie face...I'm not sure how to describe it. She was like a shrinking violet. As I recall Bonnie was the one questioning NXIVM before any of the others. She was the strong one wanted the leave the cult and Mark as an asshole about it. She really needs to leave him.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||11/18/2020|
Sorry for the typos and I am not going to correct them. You know what I mean and the Oh Dear poster can go fuck themselves.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||11/18/2020|
Nicki Clyne, Alison Mack’s wife is a Joe Rogan far right supporter.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||11/18/2020|
R47 Joe Rogan isn’t far right, he’s a Liberterian
|by Anonymous||reply 48||11/18/2020|
She’s a far right supporter and a Joe Rogan supporter.
|by Anonymous||reply 49||11/18/2020|
She's, also, a crazy person in a cult who dances outside a prison every day.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||11/18/2020|
Mark looked like a giant asshole coming out of that courtroom.
|by Anonymous||reply 51||11/18/2020|
I hope they find some damning evidence that sends Mark to jail.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||11/18/2020|
Does anyone know how far Kristin Kreuk and Grace Park were into the cult? I can't remember if that was mentioned in The Vow.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||11/18/2020|
r53 no one has revealed, yet, what specifically when down with Kreuk, but it's assumed that Keith perved on her and she noped out.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||11/18/2020|
How much footage to you think Mark conveniently “lost?”
|by Anonymous||reply 55||11/18/2020|
Kristin has said that she took a few courses but didn't get that far into the organization itself. She downplays it but that does seem to be more or less the case.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||11/18/2020|
r56, she was in a very long term relationship with a guy who was in it before they hooked up and may have stayed in until the very end. That's not the whole story.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||11/18/2020|
I will never get over the fact this was Mark's *second* cult. Which one will he choose next? I'm anxiously awaiting the documentary after that one ends in tears as well.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||11/18/2020|
Grace Park was involved for awhile it seems but no one ever talks about her for some reason.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||11/19/2020|
r58, and to make it worse, it's not like Ramtha's cult was benign. That shit was shut down for embezzlement and child rape. And he is still proud of the propaganda film he made for her.
Honestly, someone needs to do a fucking intervention for Bonnie.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||11/19/2020|
Is Mark the 21st Century Leni Riefenstahl?
|by Anonymous||reply 61||11/19/2020|
I’ve watched a bit of The Vow now and it’s obvious that India does not have fond memories of Vincente. I can’t gauge how she feels about Sarah yet. Maybe nothing much.
So I guess Catherine has had a rethink about Mark too now that India is out.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||11/19/2020|
Sorry I meant Seduced! I watched about 1.5 episodes of that.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||11/19/2020|
Finished Seduced. I think it really showed just how hard Catherine had to work to get India out. It showed that in the vow too, but I think you get a better sense of how desperate it truly was for her. She had to figure it out on her own. In the end, Catherine is really who brought the whole cult down.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||11/19/2020|
I agree R64, she was instrumental and seemed really sincere in her desperate desire to help her daughter. She was very smart about it.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||11/19/2020|
Yes, and Catherine was very shrewd in how she used Mark to get what she needed from him, and the other wacko cult members, to make her case. She had to suck up to them and act like they were all one big support group--equals. She'll drop them cold now that India is out, if she hasn't already.
|by Anonymous||reply 66||11/19/2020|
It does sound like despite earlier attempts to expose them the NYT article with the combined stories with Catherine throwing her daughter under the bus was what finally got the wheels of justice moving towards an actual police and FBI investigation.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||11/20/2020|
[quote] Yes, and Catherine was very shrewd in how she used Mark to get what she needed from him, and the other wacko cult members, to make her case. She had to suck up to them and act like they were all one big support group--equals. She'll drop them cold now that India is out, if she hasn't already.
I think it was more desperation than shrewdness for the most part. She was willing to take help wherever she could get it and genuinely needed emotional support too. But no question she has dropped them all without a backward glance. I think how they are barely mentioned in Seduced reflects her and India’s feelings toward them all. I don’t blame either of them of course. What a horrible mess.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||11/20/2020|
Is there a weed version of fetal alcohol syndrome? India seems [italic] off [/italic].
|by Anonymous||reply 69||11/20/2020|
I saw a video clip of India being interviewed and she was asked about The Vow. She said she didn’t participate because she wasn’t emotionally ready. She also expressed a lot of gratitude to her mother but to the x-members who blew the whistle too. So I dunno.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||11/20/2020|
My old boss had a daughter with whom I became very casual friends. We liked each other and hung out at work, but didn’t socialize. She always came off as somewhat stupid but acted really intelligent so nobody saw through her, but I always had a nagging feeling that she was an idiot deep down. She was OBSESSED with what the bleep do we know. She thought it was the most incredibly deep insightful work of philosophy ever.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||11/20/2020|
After watching the Vow, we found a copy of What the Bleep and started watching. Didn't make it past 20 minutes. ugh.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||11/21/2020|
r71 I bet she also loved The Matrix Reloaded and said "it really made me think."
|by Anonymous||reply 73||11/21/2020|
Bill Maher last night made specific parallels between NXIVM and the Trumpies in his New Rules.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||11/21/2020|
So, has there been an announcement for a season two of Seduced? It seems to have been more favorably regarded and at this point should be very cheaply to produce since much of the investigation is done. India could follow up with stories of other woman on her level or in her pod or what ever it was called. I would love to hear from her recruits what they were experiencing and it would go far to her being even more transparent about her power in the cult. I would also like to here from Crazy Niki, and since India lived with her maybe they can get her on tape as a way for her to tell her story (dig her grave). And at four episodes that’s not much to fill.
|by Anonymous||reply 75||11/21/2020|
I had never heard of “What the Bleep” before this series even though they talk about it in the first episode like it’s one of the best documentaries of all time. Was it very popular when it came out?
|by Anonymous||reply 76||11/21/2020|
I’ve never heard of it either, but I believe it was the highest grossing of all time.
I’m going to get flamed but even after watching Seduced I don’t have an issue with Mark. If the women can be victims so can the men. He was very much besotted with Keith and believed so much in what they were doing.
The woman I have an issue with is that woman whose last name is Keefe. Can’t remember her first name. She was the one who had Keith’s baby and then left the cult soon after.
Listening to a podcast with Toni Natalie she says that after Keefe ran away she called her up out of the blue and apologized for participating in the harassment of Toni and for poisoning her dog. Toni had no idea that her dog had died from being poisoned. He just got sick overnight and the vet couldn’t figure out what was wrong.
I think if someone participates in targeted harassment to that level they should face charges.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||11/21/2020|
r76, with new age liberals. My mom thought it was really cool. I kept asking questions about how any of what was posited in the film could be true and then found out none of it was.
|by Anonymous||reply 78||11/21/2020|
I heard of What The Bleep when it came out. Those who became The Secret brigade loved it.
Keith saw it and recognised a kindred spirit. Within 2 years Mark was embroiled in NXIVM.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||11/21/2020|
R73, she wasn’t quite that bad but was really overconfident in her intellectual abilities.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||11/21/2020|
What the Bleep was very popular. My boss had a party so that she could watch it with her employees.
But most people who saw it rolled their eyes at it. But they still made it an unexpectedly high-grossing film.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||11/21/2020|
I had heard of What the BLEEP but the new age new think vibe I caught from the reviews really turned me off, and the cutesie-poo title of the movie just put the nail in the coffin. Not going to happen.
Naturally Mark is going to position himself as just another victim of Keith’s manipulation, and is being somewhat disingenuous. People in these replies are picking up on that and pushing back on it, but IMO they’re going too far - I don’t recall hearing or reading that Keith had any plans whatsoever for *any* replacement. He’s a pathological narcissist and cares about nothing other than himself. He couldn’t have cared less about what happened after he was gone. It was all set up for him anyway.
Similarly I don’t think Mark would have set up the SOP sessions, designed to degrade women under the pretense of “enlightening them about men’s experiences.” That sick sort of sadism — the wanton humiliation of women — is trademark Keith.
People asked what Keith and Nancy had in mind. I think there’s some confusion resulting from DOS. Once the NXIVM scheme was a success, Keith was able to dive deep into his own sociopathic fantasies, but NXIVM wasn’t about DOS. It was a variation of multi level marketing, a sort of Amway for professional development seminars. Much of the money from these seminars was stove piped up to the founders, because everyone at the base of the pyramid was kicking money upward. Meanwhile, people like Bonnie are literally working themselves to death without seeing any real profit.
The cult-like programming was inflicted on people to make them better profit-zombies for the people at the tip of the pyramid. Keith eventually was able to harness this thirst for profit, combined with blind obedience, to set up his sadism cult (which seems like a better term than sex cult because he seems to have been flaccid half the time). His manipulation of Allison Mack shows this well. She was desperate for money and desperate to please Keith, and he knew this and used it to get India. How pleased he must have been to make India squirm. This bridge and tunnel schlub now living in snowy flyover upstate, eating the pussy of a descendent of euro trash royalty.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||Last Wednesday at 7:12 AM|
Other random thoughts.
I loved when Catherine was teasing Mark about the dog bed and Mark had a total MARY meltdown, the sort that he no doubt used to manipulate his poor long suffering mother, but Catherine the snobby aristo was having none of it! That smirk when he was shrieking about his pain made me adore the nasty old broad.
Bonnie and Mark conveniently live in Portugal now. How odd they are so far from Hollywood, now that the doc has been such a success. What sort of extradition treaty does Portugal have with the USA?
|by Anonymous||reply 83||Last Wednesday at 7:20 AM|
An anonymous source - ie Bonnie Piesse - wrote a defence of how Mark Vicente was portrayed in Seduced to the the Frank Report.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||Last Wednesday at 1:05 PM|
I am currently about half way through Toni Nathalie’s book about her life with Keith and after. It’s only so so. I also read Sarah Edmonson’s book about the same thing and her book was only so so too.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||Last Saturday at 1:04 PM|
Mark was the head of the Society of Protectors for a long time. He knew and agreed with EVERYTHING that was happening.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||Yesterday at 1:17 AM|
But wouldn’t he as a brainwashed member of a cult?
|by Anonymous||reply 87||Yesterday at 5:04 AM|
He was culpable. The only reason he wasn't charged is because he handed over a ton of evidence.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||Yesterday at 3:03 PM|
I'm only 4 episodes in, but I really like this.
I'm getting HBO MAX free for the Thanksgiving weekend and it looks like I'll have to subscribe to finish it.
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