Madonna debating huge artists like John Oates and James Brown about Music Videos in 1984

PS what stands out most to me about her here is how pretty she looks. She is dressed like a normal, casual chick, her hair natural, not dyed platinum, barely makeup on, and she looks very very pretty!

Madonna definitely argues her case well here, and you can just feel that change in the zeitgeist coming, that she is the new thing, and those there already are starting to look a bit stale. She's new to it all but looks like she belongs there. It's interesting to see.

Wow that was interesting.

I'm surprised to see John Oates acting so cantankerous re: videos since and Daryl Hall were actually quite successful in the transition from radio to video. He may have felt forced to become an actor but he and Hall were able to have some of their biggest chart success thanks in part to their videos. Their Jingle Bell Rock video is still played throughout the holidays.

I really miss this Madonna. Early Madonna was so mesmerizing. She was completely charming and had charisma to spare. She also came across as completely likable and smart. And she did look great here.

She really stuck it to Oates there with the comment about performing on stage being an act. It's true what the other posters said about her being so amazing & mesmerizing. She rode in on this new wave & just shined. Had to laugh at the part where she said that people thought she was a black artist before people saw her videos, like REALLY? 🤣

Her first album does sound a lot like what black artists were putting out during those years. Listen to Janet’s first two albums. That is what they sounded like. Only they weren’t having massive success because most mainstream radio stations wouldn’t play black artists who weren’t Michael Jackson or Tina Turner.

Wow. 7 replies in and nobody is ripping her apart yet?

Hall and Oates were on their way out, they only had a couple more years and then the hits were over.

No reason to rip apart young Madonna r7.

She was fresh, beautiful and a great performer.

It didn't fall apart until the new millennium.

The old guard hated music videos because they felt it emphasized looks over substance.

And lots of them weren't photogenic.

R10 that’s true though. Some artists were only popular because of their music videos

there was no excuse for the uglies not doing well in videos. Tom Petty RULED the video world for years.

I miss this Madonna! Mary!! This was right before she turned into that workout fiend.

I would be interested in seeing more footage from this, is it available anywhere?

Wow. I agree with everything upthread and will add she is so open and confident yet grounded.

Wonder what Madonna would think if she watched this now.

[quote] She also came across as completely likable

Agreed. That moment where he asks the title and she says: "Like a Virgin" and then screws her face up was endearing in a way I don't think I've ever seen Madonna before.

Imagine if 26 year old Madonna could speak to current Madonna; what advice would they give each other?

She’s always been an intelligent business savvy woman

Let's not rewrite history. People were ripping Madonna apart right from the start.

[quote]The old guard hated music videos because they felt it emphasized looks over substance.

And time proved them right.

[quote] Wow. 7 replies in and nobody is ripping her apart yet?

But only six replies until Jabba came in trying to make this about Janet when it has nothing to do with her.

Vadgebot's starting threads and talking to itself again.

This was before Like a Virgin came out and brought her to worldwide superstardom.

Like she said, she was planning a small tour for only USA major cities. After Like a Virgin came out she was doing world tours.

The Virgin Tour was pretty much a USA-only tour though, with one show in Canada. They apparently originally intended to make it a worldwide tour, and then at least go to the UK and Japan, but in the end decided not to.

She does seem very humble here. She seems very present in the interview. What's also interesting is that she is not mocking the interviewer, something she would do later on. She seems excited to talk about her projects, her collaborators (she's very gracious about Mary Lambert and Nile Rodgers) and the future.

I wish this Madonna had stayed. She became so much colder and meaner within a few years. I guess that's what happens when you achieve such massive fame. I wonder if she was just being nicer because she was just starting, and yet she seems genuine so who knows.

As for sounding like black artists at the time, I guess that is somewhat true since Reggie Lucas produced some of her first album, and he produced a number of Stephanie Mills' songs.

The impression I get is that Hall & Oates were furious about how overdone the "Adult Education" video turned out, so I can see how it tainted them. Still, Oates gets no points for the whole high-minded "Oh, I'm sorry, I'm a musician" crap.

I love when he gives her a serious look, like he’s upset, and she goes “haha you’re acting right now”

I said it then and I'll say it now: She had the meanest face.

Ha I remember this interview when she said Like A Virgin - no comments from the peanut gallery. She was so fun back then.

Well, her first album was partially produced by R&B producer Reggie Lucas. He produced for Stephanie Mills with James Mtume. Maybe that’s why some folks thought that she was black.

What a great find, OP!

Madonna was twenty-six here and she was already more articulate than most (if not all) performers out there. She's always been in charge of her own career and that's why I love her. Beyoncé couldn't give an interview like this. Gaga probably could but she lacks Madonna's overall intelligence. Folks can hate Madonna all they want but they can't deny that her intelligence is rarity in the entertainment industry.

Her interview with Eddy Moretti back in 2013 is really good too.

Great clip, OP, thanks for sharing.

Am I imagining or is she already started to have an affectation to her voice? She's articulating every syllable and almost sounds like the British Madonna.

R32 Wasn’t Beyoncé a daddy’s girl who had full control of her career?

I honestly don't think so R34. People forget that Madonna has always had that very clipped, overly enunciated manner of speaking. I remember hearing a recording of a speech she once gave as a senior in high school and she sounded exactly as she sounds here.

I honestly don't know R34. I'm not much of a Beyoncé fan, but I'm sure she has "handlers" and people in charge of her output. I remember when she came out with Formation and people were lauding her for all the symbolism and references in the video, I thought it was absurd because she had nothing to do with it. Beyoncé has most likely never opened a book in her life.

No one thought she was black. The record label tried to break her with the R&B market first, which is why she doesn't appear on the sleeve to "Everybody." They may have hoped people would assume she was black but no one actually did.

[Quote] I thought it was absurd because she had nothing to do with it. Beyoncé has most likely never opened a book in her life.

The irony of typing this in a Madonna thread.

Madonna toured as a dancer before getting her record deal. It shouldn't surprise that she spoke very clearly. Poor enunciation doesn't get you far once you leave the regions.

Early Madge.

R5 she was always saying that. It was supposed to be when Everybody came out. She made it up.

[quote]The irony of typing this in a Madonna thread.

No, it isn't. Madonna may have taken aspects of other forms of entertainment, expression, etc., and used them in her own work, but the fact remains that she was smart enough to understand what that meant. Someone like Beyoncé doesn't have a basic seventh grade understanding of anything.

It was smart to try to ride the R&B wave in the wake of the Disco Sucks movement.

Beyoncé is good. -at doing as she’s been told. Nothing else.

The popularity of “video acts” like Madonna who sang other people’s songs must’ve been galling to actual songwriter-musicians like Hall & Oates. But in 1984, that was the beginning of the MTV generation. And I for one really enjoyed it!

[Quote] Beyoncé is good. -at doing as she’s been told. Nothing else.

Who is responsible for her success? And why hasn't this person made twenty Beyonces?

[Quote] The popularity of “video acts” like Madonna who sang other people’s songs must’ve been galling to actual songwriter-musicians like Hall & Oates.

Did Hall & Oates have contempt for Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra, Dionne Warwick?

R46 there’s a few clones of her. But she was here first and had staying power and lots of PR and spin.

What popstar doesn't have lots of PR and spin? And how was Beyonce first?

Sorry R47 those three had/have great voices. Madonna’s appeal was always based on her “look,” not her voice.

You cannot serously compare her voice to Dionne’s.

Also, yeah, I would say that 70s/80s musicians DID look down on Sinatra. Believe it or it, he had a period of low popularity when he was considered passé. I believe it was during the 70s. My mom got to see him sing in a very small club in NYC. I will ask her the year.

[quote] Who is responsible for her success?

The music industry that created her.

[quote] And why hasn't this person made twenty Beyonces?

They have, the whole industry is made of many Beyoncès. Please tell me when was the last time a Beyoncè song was a hit. It has been a long time. Her clones and the other products of the industry are doing just that.

This woman has nothing exceptional going for her. She's just another disposable product, with a huge ego to top that.

[Quote] Madonna’s appeal was always based on her “look,” not her voice.

If that were true, why were her songs played on the radio? She had a vocal sound to which people responded. Did she have vocal shortcomings? Sure. Everyone does.

[Quote] They have, the whole industry is made of many Beyoncès. Please tell me when was the last time a Beyoncè song was a hit. It has been a long time. Her clones and the other products of the industry are doing just that. This woman has nothing exceptional going for her. She's just another disposable product, with a huge ego to top that.

Your point isn't very clear. Beyonce hasn't had a radio hit in forever so she's irrelevant and ten-a-penny? If Beyonce's success is so easily replicated why has Normani had one single? Why has Nicole Scherzinger remained a flop? Where is Keri Hilson? Christina Milian?

R51 is right, which is sad. The 80s were the last period of self-directed acts (like Kate Bush), though of course there were also many record industry created ones as well. MTV in the early to mind 80s was an uneasy mix of the two, and discerning teens knew the difference.

R52 She was played on the radio after MTV (and her striking videos) made her popular, ESPECIALLY after that infamous MTV Awards performance. The teen girls loved her fashion.

Is radio even relevant in the music industry anymore? I’m asking seriously.

Right from the start, she was selling sex, sex, sex. Those songs are shit. "Like a Virgin" and "Material Girl" sound so dated. "Tonight I'm Gonna Dance with Someone Else" was OK.

What is the most confusing is the fact that she was always desperately trying too hard, even when she was already on top. Papa Don't Preach was a fucking stupid song topic, and it's never played on the radio. The "Like a Prayer" video is an embarrassment.

R56 I don’t know about now, but in 1984 it definitely was. I was a preteen glued to Z100 waiting for them to play the latest Duran Duran song so I could record it!

Ive said it before and I'll say it again. Without videos Madonna would have never existed and Micheal Jackson would have been a nostalgia act . All Madonna had going for her were videos and picking catchy songs . Period . That being said,I loved her then . I danced my ass off to Vogue and Express Yourself .

R57 Yes, the songs weren’t great, especially lyrically, BUT those videos were great! And her look was always changing. The girls in my 8th grade class copied her.

Her songs were catchy, easy to dance to. And Papa Don’t Preach was actually controversial.

I really loved Live to Tell (song and video). That and Crazy For You showed Madonna could sell ballads as well.

R60, I agree that "Live to Tell" and "Crazy for You" are great songs.

R59 Thriller was all about those videos. Everyone was talking about Beat It and Billie Jean and I remember when Thriller premiered late at night and was actually scary! I remember girls in my junior high wearing tons of MJ buttons on their denim Guess jackets.

I’m not a fan of MJ post Off the Wall, but the Thriller videos still hold up.

Keri Hilton can sing and writes her own music. She got blackballed by Jay-Z for some reason.

Maybe she was a threat to Beyoncé.

[Quote] She was played on the radio after MTV (and her striking videos) made her popular

Madonna's first big hit, "Holiday," didn't have a music video. But I'm sure you'll find an excuse to explain away that fact...

R64 Holiday was a dance hit, but once her videos made her really popular it received a lot more airplay.

As I noted above, her songs were lyrically bland but very catchy. What made Madonna stand out was her look and these videos. It’s not a bad thing. She was made for MTV. So were Duran Duran and Culture Club.

[Quote] her songs were lyrically bland but very catchy.

Like most dance music.

Others have not been able to replicate Beyonce's success because others do not have the genius publicity and marketing team behind her. Her dad was a genius manager and so is Jay-Z. Beyonce has some talent but not enough to warrant her success. Look to her handlers for tips on how to make a global success out of a middling talent.

It may not be cool to say but I'm a sucker for catchy pop music and Madonna did that from day one. She brought dance music back to the pop charts after Disco got wrongfully banished.

A lot of people were surprised Madonna was white.

R69: I remember specifically the 12 inch single of Everybody did not have her picture. That's when I thought either she's white or part of a studio group

[quote]The popularity of “video acts” like Madonna who sang other people’s songs must’ve been galling to actual songwriter-musicians like Hall & Oates.

Madonna wrote or co-wrote a lot of her own material.

[quote] The "Like a Prayer" video is an embarrassment.

It is iconic.

It's so amazing to remember she once was relevant!

Madonna's "Holiday" and Shannon's "Let the Music Play" are credited with reviving dance music in the early 80s, after disco faded.

I remember watching that interview at the time R32, and how excited it made me for the upcoming album, thinking Madonna was going to make a serious album tackling what was going on in the world at the time. It sounded so interesting, but then we ended up with "Bitch I'm Madonna" and so on.

Yeah, Madonna reminds me of the Madonna I grew up with in that interview posted by r32. She is smart and well-spoken there. Some work done on the face but not the slurring, plastic horror show she is today.

MTV started in 1980. When it was all about primitive music videos. She would not have had such a big career without MTV. Her timing was perfect.

What about Dancin’ in the Sheets?

I'm surprised to see numerous posters (perhaps it's the same two or three) discount the songs. Donna Summer or Diana Ross would have killed to have Madonna's formative (1980s) catalogue.

Donna was SO great in the 70s, even her album tracks were just as good as her singles, but then her 80s stuff was really hit and miss. And she turned down a number of songs in the 80s that went on to become huge hits for other artists. She needed better management.

Well, Donna was hardly going to fire her husband. And the fact that she passed on having her latest single as the theme to the movie 54 (with its considerable promotional budget) after watching a cut of the movie... well, Miss Donna got the 1980s and 1990s that she deserved...

Yes, Donna was one of many female artists over the years who had her dumbshit husband be her manager instead of having a competent, professional management team. That's ALWAYS a huge mistake for an artist.

This is really interesting; what songs did Donna Summer turn down in the 80s?

Everyone and their grandmother turned down "It's Raining Men."

It was Teena Marie whom Motown did not put on the cover of her first album, because they wanted it to score with R and B audiences. It worked.

Teena Marie is the one white female who has legitimate credentials in the black community, and the one whom black audiences truly claimed as their own. Madonna had some R and B hits but was nowhere near as beloved as Teena was. Madonna made some kind of nasty dig about her in the press at one point, and Teena responded that Madonna was free to do a sing off with her if she were that confident of her talent. Madonna never said another word about her.

Teena Marie was fucking brilliant. She should've been a major star in the 80s. Perhaps if she were a young artist today, she would be a mainstream star, but things were a lot different back then.

Lisa Stansfield performing at the Apollo says otherwise.

Ah Teena Marie . That gal had some serious pipes .

[quote]She’s always been an intelligent business savvy woman

An intelligent and savvy businesswoman worth hundreds of millions would have never been stupid enough to marry without a prenup, hence her forking out an estimated $80 million to her second ex husband.

No. Teena Marie oversang. It's like D'Atra Hicks should have been a mainstream star.

*It's like saying

Teena might be out, at least, if she were a young artist today.

Madge's "sound" was due to the vocal tracks being sped up faster to make 20-something Madge sound younger.

How dare that little bitch interrupt a legend like James Brown. Little bitch wasn’t fit to shine his shoes let alone trying to talk over him. She’s never had any manners.

That's not what Nile Rodgers said. He said that Madonna was insistent on keys that weren't right for her voice because she wanted to sound like the demo - the example he mentioned was "Material Girl." Madonna was savvy about pop keys. That made Rodgers' job harder as they had to work harder at getting a usable vocal.

[Quote] How dare that little bitch interrupt a legend like James Brown. Little bitch wasn’t fit to shine his shoes let alone trying to talk over him. She’s never had any manners.

And James Brown did?

Donna Summer's born-Again bullshit damaged her career. In 1979, she was singing as if she were a hooker - "Bad Girls". "Hot Stuff" was another. The next year she was singing "I Believe in Jesus". Her music was no longer fun. What music do you think people preferred?

She became uptight, moralistic and humourless.

I remember seeing her in concert. She gave the obligatory costume change song to her boring husband and her sisters were her backing singers. Talk about supporting the family.

[quote]Lisa Stansfield performing at the Apollo says otherwise.

Lisa Stansfield came around more than a decade later.

Yes, the Jesus stuff also hurt Donna's career. She didn't want to sing the sexy stuff anymore. Giorgio Moroder was very frustrated about that.

Some of the songs Donna turned down:

Call Me

Theme From Fame

Flashdance (What A Feeling)

Up Where We Belong

Take My Breath Away

I've Had the Time Of My Life

There were a few others. She could've been the movie soundtrack queen of the 80s if she'd been more savvy.

I'm genuinely surprised Madonna never worked with Moroder in the 80s. You would think those two would work well together.

That would've been interesting r100.

Moroder was kind of on his way out by the time Madonna really hit it big.

R32 Thanks for posting that interview, very good. Madonna’s generation grew up during the height of the Cold War when freedom and democracy was under real threat so they valued and respected it. Also, public education in America then was much better than the last few decades.

[quote] dumbshit husband be her manager instead of having a competent, professional management team. That's ALWAYS a huge mistake for an artist.

Don’t I know it...

These wives allow their dumbshit husbands to get involved...

R99: half those songs were Moroder movie songs that would have moved Donna to another plateau in the 80s. I loved Donna but she really did blow it.

Cutting people off during a panel interview is not a debate.

I loved this. She was feisty.

R106 She also blew it in the early 90’s. When she finally had a hit with Stock, Aitken, and Waterman in 1989 with “This Time I Know It’s For Real,” she had the chance to work with them again for her next album but she declined. Instead she worked with another producer and released that disaster “Mistaken Identity” doing New Jack Swing and flopped.

You can say what you want about her now, but no artists today hold a candle to her in basic eloquence. All musicians sounds heavily immature with constantly throwing around the word “like” without progressing the conversation.

No one thought she was black. That’s just something she made up later.

R99 Call Me has lyrics by Deborah Harry, so the song Summer was offered must’ve been Moroder’s instrumental demo, which was called “Man Machine.” Harry added lyrics and changed the title to Call Me.

It’s a shame Donna let herself fall backwards.

So Madonna's always had that "theater kid giving a 5th grade book report" way of articulating.

Say what you want about Madonna’s latent thirst trip, but the woman set standards for videos.

R115 I would argue it was directors like Kevin Godley who did that. Madonna didn’t plan or film her own videos, at least not when in the early years.

She did style herself really well and showed her navel which was very risqué at the time.

I’ve been watching a bunch of 80s videos lately and I have to say the early Duran Duran ones like Rio and Hungry Like the Wolf were spectacular - that scenery paired with those candy colored suits and great hair! I think they were directed by Malcolm McLaren but too lazy to look.

Speaking of Godley, here’s his incredible (and deeply creepy) 1983 video for Herbie Hancock’s Rockit.

there is a podcast for Madonna fans called the Inside the Groove if you want to hear a breakdown of her hits. He goes into detail about the writing, collaborators and the lyrics. This is guy is a huge fan obviously but it is interesting.

R116 she very much came up with most of the videos.

[quote]half those songs were Moroder movie songs that would have moved Donna to another plateau in the 80s. I loved Donna but she really did blow it.

Donna made some big career mistakes in the 80s. It's too bad she didn't have better management. And her husband didn't help matters at all.

[quote]The popularity of “video acts” like Madonna who sang other people’s songs must’ve been galling to actual songwriter-musicians like Hall & Oates.

Madonna wrote or co-wrote a lot of her own songs.

R119 what did her husband do wrong that sabotaged her career?

Donna needed professional management, not a husband who had no experience and credentials. He was a studio musician who thought he could run the career of a major recording artist. And Donna let him. Stupid, stupid.

But then of course you had all the Born Again Jesus stuff that really hindered her career, and that was all her fault.

Duh, she has an IQ of 140....