Someone please explain Aleister Crowley to me

He was involved in the spiritual/occult search and was a real character. He had a cloak that he called his "cloak of invisibility" and really believed that he went out wearing it in public no one could see him.

He was my daddy!

Jimmy Page was a devotee of his and was fascinated by his teachings and life.

He dated Preston Sturges' mother. The young Preston makes an appearance in Crowley's autobio---and he hated the kid.

He was just a publicity seeker just like Nic Tortorelli.

He contributed nothing to culture. He's a relic of those days before WWII when society forbade any kind of misbehaviour or sexual behaviour.

(Of course, misbehaviour is celebrated now.)

Grifter and attention-seeker.

He would sometimes take a dump on the floor, leave it there and refer to it as "sacred feces."

So essentially a crackpot. What was the allure?

He was interested in the occult and had many claims but was a frequent user of cocaine and was often drugged up.

He hit me in the head with a fondue pot.

Bizarre, interesting character who went against the grain when England was still quite reserved and repressed. He was different, period.

He claimed that he had successfully conjured an alien/demon. But he may just took too much drugs and looked at himself in the mirror.

He was MI-5.

He was married twice and had 3 children. Was also bisexual and copulated with men.

In ceremonial garb and even started his own religion and church.

Went to Egypt, spent the light in the Great Pyramid and saw astral light in it.

R16 spent the NIGHT in the Great Pyramid...….

Formulated one of his basic books in Egypt.

I disagree. He was looking for power like a lot of people are these days and back a few decades ago. He was just looking for it in the metaphysical realm. To the extent that he could convince people he had it, that would open doors for him.

Who wants to know?

A seeker of truth ... and money and power.

All of us struggle with philosophical issues like the meaning / purpose of life, is there an afterlife and how does it look like, who am I and why am I this way, etc. And there are plenty of theories and belief system that may give people hope, comfort, answers, or more questions. Of course, there are a ton of crazy and greedy snake oil salesmen out there who take advantage of those seeking answers and knowledge.

Sorry there are plenty of theories and, belief systems. ...

Why yes, I do have my father's eyes.

I won't hear a word against him!

Such a handsome man!

He double-dipped in my margarine fountain.

He died at age 72.

He buttfucked a fellow occultist as part of a "ritual." Said occultist did NOT like it.

Bisexual and tended to bottom...

A good biography of him is "Aleister Crowley: Magick, Rock and Roll, and the Wickedest Man in the World" by Gary Lachman, the former bassist for Blondie.

[quote]Bisexual and tended to bottom...

Nothing wrong with that

Makes them so much easier to control

In my eyes B Bush was definately a relation

He believed in exploiting life to the fullest, and that included exploiting and harming others and himself. I can’t say Aiwass led him astray but I don’t really admire him for how he lived. I wouldn’t want to live that way. I do think he was drugged and deranged, but also a provocateur that did give some people permission to be a little freer.

R28 Should have told the bottom to relax and enjoy it.

I remember reading him as a schoolboy. I'm not sure what I understood or got out of his books.

He definitely had a mental illness that progressed with age. Prob some form of bipolar. Also narcissist and maybe sociopath. Grifter, snake oil salesman, charlatan. But also had genuine occult experiences altho he eventuated a darker philosophy led by his ego and was all about control and manipulation.

How did ancient Egypt get conflated with the occult and Satanism?

Spiritualism and later Theosophy and other "new age" philosophies arose at the same time great archaeological discoveries in Egypt and Near East. So, the old ways/gods/beliefs became something special (i.e., magical, powerful, superhuman) now rediscovered by these occultists through channelling various entities, ascended masters, long dead pharaohs. It's kind of like how many songs in the 1970s are about rockets and space travel. Art is a reflection of current events.

So I guess I should read the Manly Hall and Mme Blavatsky tomes I have, r37!

Blavatsky is a tough read but doable in chunks. She is also repetetive so that helps. She is a fascinating figure! I want to write a biopic of her. Have not read Manly.

Gives Pagans a bad name, like many Nu Age/Spiritualist/Darksided gurus. They always tend to be crazy-eyed 'pentagrams, orgies, & Birkenstock' types who think every devotee of a Pagan path ought to make a life's work of summoning demons (something that should be avoided_, shocking the proles, and being a pain in the arse performance artiste when they aren't servicing the Wizards (if they're nubile, of course). It's annoying and regressive as much as it is doltish and embarassing, and I'm not into it.

I used to have a boyfriend who was into this shit.

Nothing to see here! Move along!

R40 For sure a lot of crazies gravitate to the ooga-booga shit, including philosophies like Spiritualism, Paganism and Theosophy. But, see, the crazies don't stick with the philosophy...eventually they fall off once they realize that it is not easy majik and smoke and mirrors to control and play tricks with people. There is actually real substance there, which requires a commitment to learning and understanding. Personal interest is only the doorway to a larger experience, but you need to be open to it and it is not for everyone. Some commit, most don't. Some go half way and call themselves adept. I mean, there are good lawyers and bad lawyers, good doctors and bad doctors, and everywhere in between. It is the same with esoterics. Caveat emptor. Follow your intuition. Get a second opinion. Seek council.

R43 here. I should add, that beyond everything, if you ever seek counsel from an esoteric (medium, reader, healer, etc.) they should be ETHICAL. Meaning, they should never in any way encourage an action, situation or thought that could bring harm to yourself or another individual. That is the bottom line. It is, in fact, a Law of Nature and there is no way around it. What they should do, is help you come to an understanding about your situation or line of inquiry and give you insight into options for how to move forward. It takes great care to do this. Those that don't care, don't care...and will charge extra for it.

[quote] [R40] For sure a lot of crazies gravitate to the ooga-booga shit, including philosophies like Spiritualism, Paganism and Theosophy. But, see, the crazies don't stick with the philosophy...eventually they fall off once they realize that it is not easy majik and smoke and mirrors to control and play tricks with people.

The crazy ones are the most loyal ones, actually. They go full in and refuse to let any experience convince them that they are wrong. Just look at cults like Scientology or the Deplorables.

I’ve read a pretty broad survey of Gnosticism, Jewish and other mysticism, witchcraft, shamanism, and various occult figures and their beliefs, from Crowley to Blavatsky, Pauwels and Bergier, and Cayce. I’ve also read about various commonly appreciated mythologies from ancient Egypt, Sumer, Britain, Ireland, German, Nordic, Mayan, Aztec etc. cultures. Also too much Internet conspiracy theory of the David Icke sort.

I have found most of it very interesting, obviously, and oftentimes illuminating. I may be one of those ‘crazies,’ I suppose, but I think it’s all a great way to understand how varied different people’s self-contained worlds and worldviews are.

I have to say that mythologies and various spiritual investigations and philosophies—so, anything that deals with connecting with the immaterial world and exploring meaning in life—are compelling to me. This can include mystic and magical theories, rituals and practices and any other attempt to connect with or communicate with an invisible dimension.

Crowley, Morning of the Magicians, Icke all can be interesting in their various ways but to a limited degree to me. I am pretty open minded but a lot of their sorts of ramblings feel oftentimes like a paranoid imagination (in the cases of Icke et al.), a grandiose personality (Crowley) running out of control in a way that rewrites people’s realities according to outlandish new fictions. We can look at Scientology as a literal example of this happening and I feel like Crowley was a similar type of cult-leader figure, which may be why he retains a hold on a lot of people, but in a less ambitiously organized way. I’ve read some of these sorts of writings with an open and intrigued mind but usually end up feeling pretty quickly as if I have been let into someone’s unraveling ego-driven psyche and it makes me uncomfortable and I lose interest.

I guess in the end I really appreciate explorations of being and claims about interdimensional experiences regardless of religious attribution but I don’t like when a self-announced guru tells stories about their own greatness, encourages people to follow them (I never trust anyone who does this, whether religious leader or political candidate) and speaks frequently from a paranoid and fearful perspective. This last aspect seems to be the key to turning me off, at least, and I do see Crowley as one of these people, whose message is less “reptilian aliens are out to get you!” than “social norms are out to get you—take all you want and use anything and anyone you want without empathy!” which to me is equally cynical and cruel. If I am inclined to ruminate on ‘what is,’ I would much rather read about the inherent powers imbued in trees and language through Ogham or about the tree of life, etc., than about gaining control over people and things for personal immediate gratification.

I love you, r46.

I have the personal library to have read all you have, but too many books I haven't read! I do find Icke interesting, though, when one looks at the bas-reliefs of reptilian and piscine figures of ancient Sumer (some of the famous are in Bowdoin College in Maine!). Started with Edith Hamilton as a kid, and once one discovers mythology, there goes one's religion! When one sees the unmistakable similarity of the Hermetic caduceus and the Crick-Watson DNA structure. The Sumerian pine-cones, the Eye of Horus, and the pineal gland. The red and white of Santa's outfit as he leaves presents under the pine tree, and the red and white of the Amanita mascara found under the pine tree. "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross." When one discovers word etymologies. And so on.

Ah, well. Shakespeare had a word for everything, did he not? "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

R47 I also find the Sumerian fish gods and their obvious relationship to Catholic clergy clothing interesting, and I am intrigued by Nammu and other ancient reptile-like deities, etc. I find all that fascinating. But the thing is, Icke et al. latch arbitrarily onto one of these examples—one that is the most chilling to people of our era—and build fantasy worlds designed to freak people out. Look at ancient art from throughout Europe, Mesoamerica, Asia, Africa and you’ll find dragons/flying serpents/lizard-like deities throughout. You’ll also find people with cat heads, bird heads, dog heads, you’ll find winged humanoids, ones with talons, multi-animal-headed hybrid beings. Yet Icke, QAnon et al. latched onto shapeshifting lizard people who are cold and soulless and who run the Fed, the World Bank, the Bank of London and global banking empires and, oh, by the way, somehow have an affiliation with those evil Jews and must be vanquished before they obliterate humanity. These fearmongering cult leaders arbitrarily chose to conflate ancient depictions of reptiles with modern depictions of extraterrestrials and tie them to banking and royalty. As I said, it’s an interesting fantasy world-building exercise but it has become dangerously weaponized bullshit. Philosophy and fantasy can be thrilling to follow, mythology and spirituality and even religions can be illuminating and nourishing, but egomaniacal people can also claim to have special knowledge and command the minds of people who seek this sort of knowledge and wisdom.

One rabbit hole I followed online out of amusement but also because it was personally relevant had to do with blood type. I am A negative. I read in one of these articles that extraterrestrial hybrid people are Rh-negative. I kind of giggled inside and thought, oh, fun! So I started googling more info. Lists of characteristics came up—lower than average body temperature, low blood pressure, light-colored eyes, empathetic and potentially psychic abilities, a feeling of alienation from others and so on. All of these apply to me and so I wanted to read more, even though I personally section this stuff off into my ‘alternative reality’ file instead of integrating it into reality. I read more online—click, click, click. Within a few clicks, I ended up on a white supremacy website that had multiple forums dedicated to Rh-negative ‘Aryans’ discussing how they are different than and superior to regular Rh-positive human beings, being ‘special’ people of Northwestern Europe with ‘special’ DNA. That’s how easy it was to go from following curiosity to landing in a viper nest of Nazis.

This sort of paranoid New Age/ancient-cultures subculture has been creatively integrated by cult leader types with hateful, dehumanizing and paranoid worldviews, and people like the guy who brought a gun to the Comic Ping Pong family pizzeria in DC to break up Hillary Clinton’s basement child sex trafficking operation (to find that the restaurant is just a restaurant with no basement at all) fall prey to these bizarre coercions. Infoward/Alex Jones, QAnon, the Gaia network and even the History Channel have played a major role in this dystopian world building collaborative. It is possible to read about ancient cultures and believes, and even to consider their foundations and to think outside our commonly accepted understanding of ancient civilizations and with whom they may have interacted and how, while maintaining sanity. Just because Sumerians depicted lizard and fish gods, that doesn’t drive to a logical conclusion that the Windsors and the Rothchilds are humanoid Komodo dragons who take their faces off in private and are working to enslave humanity. That’s a Harry Potter story being accepted as reality and it is dangerous to us all.

[quote] I am pretty open minded but a lot of their sorts of ramblings feel oftentimes like a paranoid imagination (in the cases of Icke et al.),

IMO Icke makes the most sense in the way that he insists that there are negative forces who feed off negative energy and deliberately create negative conditions so people react negatively and remain in a negative state of mind providing food for the ominous negative forces.

Do I believe in the specifics of lizard people pretending to be humans? No, but I do believe that some individuals believe that other's struggle, fear, confusion, anger, andmisery are beneficial for these individuals and they deliberately create negative conditions in this world (sometimes because they believe in some doomsday prophecy).

[quote] Do I believe in the specifics of lizard people pretending to be humans? No, but I do believe that some individuals believe that other's struggle, fear, confusion, anger, andmisery are beneficial for these individuals and they deliberately create negative conditions in this world (sometimes because they believe in some doomsday prophecy).

Sure—so what’s the utility of packaging it in an ancient lizard-people story? Lots of psychologists can distill how certain personality types create negative environments to fuel themselves and to manipulate others, so why Icke’s versions would make the most sense to people confuses me. If he presented his ideas as metaphorical, that would make a lot of sense. Unfortunately, he presents fantastical conflations of ancient ideas and contemporary fears as literal reality and be encourages people into a very dark state of imagined realities. I only know a fair bit about his ideas because I obviously find some interest in some of them—enough to have learned what he talks about—but I also listened to him enough and have heard from enough of his loose cult following to know he trades in fear and chaotic, disorganized thinking and has created a lot of reactive, rather demented mindsets.

Listening to mental health experts discuss how narcissists’ egos need to be fueled through reactions to their negativity is a way to understand how to navigate such dark forces. Listening to Icke describe covert cabals of reptilian bankers who prey on YOU is a way to become at least a little bit of a paranoid personality type with no feeling of power because after all what person can overpower an ancient world-dominating race of supernatural lizard people?

It was/is all crap.

I prefer Dr. Mabuse

Speak of the Icke-y devil.

I've warned you once about speaking against dear Papa

I won't warn you again...

I, for one, found him to be simply divine

I ain't saying a word...

Y'all got no idea

Where's my cigarettes, Dubya?