Just rewatched TOOTSIE

Teri. Not Terri.

Teri (not Terri). She should have won the Oscar instead of Jessica.

Terri Garr holding the dirty end of a plunger trapped in the toilet...still repulses me.

Teri. Sorry. (I’m r3)

Jessica was also nominated for Frances that year. Two very different performances. Dark and brooding vs light and slap sticky. The voters were impressed.

My favorite scenes were always between Pollack and Hoffman. Every line perfection.

I remember Pollack stepped into the role at Hoffman’s insistence. He was perfect. I think he replaced Larry Luckinbill.

DL fave Ellen Foley has a tiny role as a production assistant.

R7, I never knew that he was there in place of Luckinbill. Learn something new every day.

Rewatched last year. Just the right amount of everything. I'm not a big Dustin fan, but he should have had the Oscar that year. Ghandi was good, but Dustin was better than Ben.

Was Hoffman's look based on Joyce?

I always think of Andrea Mitchell when I watch Tootsie.

I should have won that year for Garp

It so doesn't hold up now. It's totally obvious where the actors are adlibbing.

You were a tomato!!!!

I loved this exchange:

MICHAEL: Terry Bishop is a name?

GEORGE: No, Michael Dorsey is a name. When you want to send a steak back, Michael Dorsey is a name.

"Then how can you be a has-been?"

"Michael, are you gay?" asked Sandy as she held his box of chocolates.

Estelle Getty was really the weakest link in The Golden Girls.

Dorothy: I think this dress makes me look dumpy Saleswoman: that’s because you’re wearing ankle straps

Rose: Oh Dorothy, these are the BEST years of our lives.

Dorothy: Rose these are the LAST years of our lives!

I like when the bewildered soap actress in the hospital bed gives up and says, “I can’t [italic]work like this.”

Mrs Doubtfire is far superior.

Who did Estelle Getty play? I never noticed her in it.

I love this movie so much. I grew up in Syracuse and we all had a laugh when they showed a barn to represent his first run in Syracuse.

Nancy Dussault

It's more a than a lil homophobic.

Very funny movie, but doesn't hold up to repeat viewings.

If you watch it more than, say, once a decade, the laugh lines aren't a surprise and the male-feminist preachiness becomes overwhelming.

Shelley Winters older or Shirley MacLaine older?

What's the difference?

Some Scotch tape and red hair dye.

What about Joan Collins?

Oh, I don't think I have the strength. But I have some plaster.

"Does Jeff know?"

Garr was robbed of her Oscar. Sad.

I wonder if she ever got that knife out of her back?

The stuff with Jessica Lang's dad wasn't needed.

This was the last movie I saw with my mom. I thought it was brilliant--I mean, any movie you can watch even once a decade and laugh/cry is pretty damn good, isn't it?

Lange was so touching as a nice woman who gets involved with a user/jerk. Love the song, even, god help me! Thanks to all the posters with new info, viewpoints. Such a break from the news.

Great film, probably my favorite comedy of all time. Dustin Hoffman was brilliant. Terrific supporting cast.

It just worked but I agree with you about Lange's dad

"The stuff with Jessica Lang's dad wasn't needed."

Sorry, it's absolutely required to have a same-sex suitor character in any crossdressing comedy, as is sharing a bed with the hot person who thinks you're just a same-sex friend. So what if adults don't share beds with pals or hit on the unattractive in real life, thjose are the cross-dressing comedy RULES.

I'm sorry...the weak element for me is Lange herself. She seems stoned most of the time making zero connection with anyone else in the scene. I have no idea what Michael sees in her.

Tootsie is my all-time favorite movie!!!

Yes, that dull lengthy farm interlude...

Like if in Mrs Doubtfire Robin Williams and Sally Field went to Hawaii and somehow had to share a bed.

It would’ve been better with someone like Meryl in Jessica Lange’s role.

R41, vomit. J was perfect.

Charles Durning was wonderful especially in his last scene with Hoffman.

It's very obvious what Michael sees in Julie, R38, she's beautiful and seems very sweet and feminine, and unlike Sandy she doesn't whine. Plus, she's in a bad place personally and needs rescuing, which both makes her seem available instead of out of his league, and boost his masculine pride at a time when his male ego is not feeling its best.

That said, I agree that her performance is nothing special, just another "The Girl" role done with more charisma than usual.

No, she does seem stoned throughout.

Durning's Oscar nomination that year should have been for Tootsie, not Whorehouse. He was wonderful in Tootsie. I also think George Gaynes should have been nominated. Garr was fine, but she mushmouthed a lot of her lines. I wasn't super impressed with her. Hoffman 100% should have won. Gandhi is a bloated snore of a movie, and Kingsley does nothing award worthy in it. Hoffman's performance is quite possibly the finest comedic performance ever committed to film.

No, he’s never convincing as a woman.

Maybe it's a straight guy thing. I would just never be attracted to someone like Julie. I don't need a fixer-upper and looks fade.

Tootsie is the perfect early 80s all star big Hollywood studio comedy

Perfection

Meryl playing it Manhattan style would’ve been great.

There would’ve been a genuine ironic sharpness to her throwing the drink in his face.

With Lange it just came of as frauey bitchiness.

[quote] It would’ve been better with someone like Meryl in Jessica Lange’s role.

While Meryl is brilliant playing comedy, I thought Jessica was great in Tootsie.

R47, it’s not so much about being convincing as a woman as being funny. Nobody thought Lemmon and Curtis passed as women.

R48 This movie wasn't about you, it was about fictional Michael Dorsey so ...

Airplane! with its eighty minute runtime is more watchable.

Tootsie was just so obvious from the get-go it would’ve benefited from forty minutes chopped of its runtime.

Airplane is juvenile

Another actress could’ve taken the opportunity to elevate the role, mocking the character’s double-standards and pretensions.

With none of her usual hamminess to call upon Lange is a just leaden bland live interest.

Not the worst but probably one of the most pathetic Oscar wins really.

R10, it's Gandhi (not Ghandi). WTF?

R57, it’s just a misplaced H, Mary.

Special place in my heart because I was an 80s kid and went to The Russian Tea Room once with my parents and grandparents when I was 7.

Even with all of the crime of the 80s, just so much nostalgia.

[quote]Jessica was also nominated for Frances that year. Two very different performances. Dark and brooding vs light and slap sticky. The voters were impressed.

On the contrary, the voters knew she was going to lose to Streep for Best Actress, so they gave her supporting as a consolation prize. She did nothing Oscar-worthy in "Tootsie."

Jessica Lange and Meryl Streep both won two undeserved Oscars.

Teri is the only watchable thing in this very unfunny movie(which steals from every man in drag movie ever.) Dustin in a dress is about as believable as Bruce Jenner.

Teri is charmingly over the top but hardly Oscar worthy.

Geena Davis was gorgeous in this.

Trying to decide who's the bigger lonely old bitter fag? Is it R61 or R62? It's like Sophie's Choice up in here! (I'm here all week, folks!)

Ummmm. What about. me?

Geena Davis steals every scene she’s in.

Too bad Dustin Hoffman is such a CREEP in real life. On the set of Kramer vs Kramer he PINCHED Meryl Streep's ASS.

Lange did slap stick in Tootsie?

1982 was a good year for me. I was in Tootsie *and* The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas, and I was Oscar-nominated for the latter.

The first third of the movie is so great - Michael's meeting with his agent, the whole process of getting hired after Sandy bombs; the scene with the box of chocolates at Michael's apartment.

It makes it all the more difficult for me to say what I'm now going to say. Yes. I do feel it's time to set the record straight. You see, I didn't come here just as an administrator, Dr. Brewster; I came to this hospital to settle an old score. Now you all know that my father was a brilliant man; he built this hospital. What you don't know is that to his family, he was an unmerciful tyrant - a absolute dodo bird. He drove my mother, his wife, to - to drink; in fact, she - uh, she she she went riding one time and lost all her teeth. The son Edward became a recluse, and the oldest daughter - the pretty one, the charming one - became pregnant when she was fifteen years old and was driven out of the house. In fact, she was so terrified that she would, uh, that, uh, that, that, that the baby daughter would bear the stigma of illegitimacy that she, she - she decided to change her name and she contracted a disfiguring disease... after moving to Tangiers, which is where she raised the, the, the little girl as her sister. But her one ambition in life - besides the child's happiness - was to become a nurse, so she returned to the States and joined the staff right here at Southwest General. Well, she worked here, she knew she had to speak out wherever she saw injustice and inhumanity. God save us, you do understand that, don't you, Dr. Brewster? (“I never laid a hand on her!”) Yes, you did! And she was shunned by all you nurses, too... and by a, what do you call it, what do you call it, a - something like a pariah, to you doctors who found her idealistic and reckless. But she was deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply, deeply loved by her brother. It was this brother who, on the day of her death, swore to the good Lord above that he would follow in her footsteps, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just, just owe it all up to her. But on her terms. As a woman. And just as proud to be a woman as she ever was. For I am not Emily Kimberly, the daughter of Dwayne and Alma Kimberly. No, I'm not... I’M EDWARD KIMBERLY, THE RECLUSE BROTHER OF MY SISTER ANTHEA.

Lange didn't give much of a performance--very flat and the only weak performance in the whole thing. Pollack was great. Hoffman is no more convincing than Curtis & Lemmon in "Some Like It Hot", but that's beside the point.

Bill Murray deserved to be nominated, not Durning. Jeff has the funniest lines, and Murray knocks them out of the park.

R74, FU!!!!

Pollack was great.

One flaw is the shitty music.

No mention of Dabney Coleman? He played such a good chauvinistic shithead.

Agreed. Pollack was great.

My favorite scene of his is when Michael is telling him to get him out of his contract. His "Really?" said with a slight smile when Michael tells him that Charles Durning's character asked Dorothy to marry him delights me.

Love Dabney Coleman in this, too.

Murray improvised most of his scenes. Lange’s breathy voice and naïveté were much like Monroe in Some Like It Hot. Hoffman excelled at playing an asshole actor but I never believed he changed his ways by the end.

I want to watch this again. Where can I find it?

"On the set of Kramer vs Kramer he PINCHED Meryl Streep's ASS."

Did he do that? I never heard that, but I did hear (in a biography of Meryl Streep) that upon meeting her he grabbed her tit.

R81, bitch, why are you so lazy?

Not only that R79, he says it like " ah, that's sweet".

Murray was Murray. While very funny, there's wasn't much of a performance there. If Pollack had had more screen time or more of an arc, one could make a larger argument for him being deserving of a nomination (though I realize George Gaynes' role was around the same size), but he was damn good. Lange was the "straight man" of the film, the calm in the center of it. It wasn't a showy role, and there was so much chaos going on around her that it's easy to dismiss what she did. No, I wouldn't have given her the Oscar, but we all know why she won it, and to say she was bad in Tootsie is just wrong.

Gaines was actually the person most mentioned as a possible Supporting Actor nominee.

Lange is great in that final scene on the street where she is signing autographs. She goes from happy to shear hurt and anger when she sees Hoffman. That whole scene plays out beautifully.

George Gaynes, potential Oscar nominee??! LMAO! He was Punky Brewster's (adopted) dad!!!

R60 And Garr, Stanley, Close, and Warren didn't do anything Oscar-worthy either, so ....

I wouldn't have given it to any of the five women nominated for Supporting. I would have picked Dana Hill in Shoot the Moon, but that movie was completely forgotten by the time Oscar rolled around.

I disagree. I think this was a very good year for Supporting Actress. like all the performances plus Cher in Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean.

Cher was actually considered for Lange’s role in Tootsie.

And then the casting directors laughed, dabbed their eyes and threw her headshot in the trash.

Olivia Newton-John wrote in her recent bio that she was up for the Lange part too but lost out in the final casting.

Ellen Barkin in "Diner" deserved that Oscar. What an awesome performance!

[quote]R38 I'm sorry...the weak element for me is Lange herself. I have no idea what Michael sees in her.

You mean, aside from the fact that she’s gorgeous, gentle, has a successful career and elegant Manhattan apartment, is close to her surviving parent (who has a great country house upstate), and is a loving mother?

You need her to be a Rhodes Scholar, too?

[quote]R90 I would have picked Dana Hill in Shoot the Moon

Misshapen midgets need not apply.

Fuck you.

Linda at r98, you are now cancelled due to wearing yellow face and eye makeup to make them slanty.

Please pack up your Oscar and ship it to Cher.

We watched it during a Covid quarantine this spring and laughed our asses off. I saw it in the theater when it came out and a lot of it flew over my head. As an adult woman, a lot of it hit its target. And some of it I just dismissed because we’ve come a long way, baby.

R65 'I'm here all week folks' Somebody needs to tell you vaudeville died 90 years ago and you need to stop seeking bookings.

This scene has to be the funniest 3 minutes in film- or at least way up there.

According to Mental Floss, Hoffman decided to use a Southern accent after failing to convince director Pollack that he should use a French one. Jasper, Alabama-born actress Polly Holliday (most famous for playing the tough-talking waitress Flo on Alice) helped Hoffman with the accent. To help practice, Hoffman and Holliday performed A Streetcar Named Desire, with Meryl Streep as their sole audience member, at Hoffman's Manhattan duplex. Hoffman played Blanche, and Holliday played Stella.

I guess most of you have never held a woman's hand but it is a world away from a man's hand.

[quote] To help practice, Hoffman and Holliday performed A Streetcar Named Desire, with Meryl Streep as their sole audience member, at Hoffman's Manhattan duplex. Hoffman played Blanche, and Holliday played Stella.

So much for the rumor that Streep hated Hoffman and that he #metoo'ed her. (Though I might actually sit in the same room as my rapist to watch Dustin play Blanche as Dorothy Michaels opposite Polly Holliday as Stella.)

Dustin Hoffman grabbed her tit so it was ok. Harvey Weinstein grabbing a young actress's tit is a very different thing.

Hoffman methods away his performance. Lange comes off as medicated and cotton mouthed. Dave Gruisin's dated light jazz score punctuates the flaws. I did like the supporting cast who seemed to wander in from a different movie.

Oh, God. Here come the terms.

IMHO Hoffman was fairly convincing as a woman... an ugly middle-aged woman with no figure. Much more convincing than Lemmon and Curtis in "SLIH", or Caitlin Jenner for that matter.

Because he's short and small for a man, for starters. slim and narrow-shoulders and, with small hands for a man. Tall women like Davis and Lange tower over him, which is probably one reason they were cast, if actual women make a man in drag look dainty, it really helps the audience forget about the jawline.

I love Charles Durning and he was great in Tootsie.

Hoffman looks like a woman, but vocally cannot pull it off.

I rewatched it recently and was surprised how lackluster it was. There were a few strong moments, but overall it was skippable.

Anna Woleck from OLTL was in Tootsie.

In 1982, E.T. looked more feminine than Dustin's Dorothy. Remember when Gertie (Drew Barrymore) dressed E.T. in drag?

There’s a great throwaway line on 30 Rock when Liz Lemon is visiting a drag club and a server refers to her as Dorothy Michaels.

Tootsie is a true classic.

I still like TOOTSIE and I saw it in the theatre back in 1982 or early 1983 when it came out. ET now THAT is an overrated movie.

Remember, this was 1982. We were more innocent back then. Single men in their 50's who had male roommates were 'confirmed bachelors' or never found the right girl. It was easier for a man to pass as a woman. We were less suspicious. Dorothy is just an unattractive woman ('I'd like to make her look a little more attractive. How far can you pull back' Cameraman: How do you feel about Cleveland.') Early on in the movie Michael is playing the piano and an unattractive woman is trying to engage him in conversation and complimenting his playing but Michael is oblivious and scanning the room for pretty women. Fast forward to when he's Dorothy and talking to an unattractive female autograph seeker and see says to Dorothy 'You're in even prettier in person' and Michael/Dorothy compliments her and tells her she's pretty, too. It's a really sweet moment and shows that Michael has opened his eyes to every woman he engages with. Not just the pretty ones.

I think that Michael not being "totally" convincing is part of the point. I still enjoy Tootsie, especially the first half and the end. It drags just a little on the back half, but nothing major.

The Family Guy homage always makes me smile.

Well I don't remember 1982 being very innocent but maybe we were.

1982 was innocent compared to 2020

R82 is correct. On his first meeting Meryl Dustin grabbed her little titty.

Ummm...1982 was not the dark ages. Single men in their 50s with roommates prompted a whispered "He's gay" followed by a loud laugh. And it was probably harder for a man to pass as a woman because even modest clothing styles were more tailored to the body.

The George Fields role was written for Dabney Coleman.

Dabney ended up playing the same character he played in 9 to 5.

R116- Gay men do this ALL the time- Ignoring someone or giving someone attitude they don't find hot.

Lange was fine and she played Julie the way Syndey Pollack had intended. Jessica initially turned down the role because she was in her "serious actress phase" and was still wary of being perceived as the dizzy blonde bimbo from King Kong. But Sydney Pollack kept begging her to say yes, and when she finally accepted, she still had misgivings because everybody around her was funny and had funny lines to say, while her part was simply the object of straight male desire.

In essense, Julie was Pollack's shiksa ideal. Tall, blonde, and dreamy, she was self-reliant yet still vulnerable and a bit little girl lost. She was a working woman and single mother, and she knew her way around a kitchen. And although she was a bit of a feminist, she tolerated her boyfriend's philandering. The perfect woman! Julie was the counterpoint to the neurotic, whiney, clinging and unemployed Sandy. Michael could have Sandy anytime, and he did. Julie was unattainable, and he had to evolve to finally get her.

[quote] Jeff has the funniest lines, and Murray knocks them out of the park.

You slut!

What is the line when the show is being shot live? Something like I don't need to see backs, people!

I like the line of Julie noticing some facial hair on Dorothy & reassuring her that some men like facial hair on a women & Dorothy then saying, yes, but she wasn’t attracted to those sort of men.

DOROTHY: It was this brother who on the day of her death swore to the good lord above that he would follow in her footsteps and... and... and... and... and... and... and just... just... just... just... just... just... just...

RITA: (in booth) Don't... don't... don't... don't panic.

What’s also great is how Michael got out of his contract without destroying his career and by making Rita and Ron look like geniuses for pulling this outrageous storyline off. The whole movie is tied up very nicely at the end.

It is tied up nicely if you ignore that the idea of having to broadcast a show live in the 1980s is ignored.

It is just so bizarrely different than the logic of the real world that the contrivance becomes distracting.

Are people really that stuck on fiction being "like the real world." It's like people who can't enjoy Friends or Sex and the City because "they could never afford that apartment." Who cares. Don't you usually accept the world of the movie?

I can take some suspension of disbelief, but when a plot element is so weirdly contrived and unconnected to the real world it becomes a distraction. And when it is illogical it makes you see other flaws in the plot.

That is the problem of Tootsie. The internal logic of Some Like It Hot is consistent with itself so that you do pick at the plot holes. And we do not have bizarre non-real world elements like the band being paid in licorice or flying to their destination by jet-pack.

The live broadcast of the soap is just too weird and too inconsistent to accept. The fact that they have to make such an elaborate explanation of it just demonstrates that is was a bad idea.

It's a comedy, not a documentary. Funny as hell.

How can anyone not love this?

R133, how much to you actually know about the production of soap operas in the 1980s? They all used to be performed live, do you know when they changed from live to pre-recorded? And do you know wehther in the days of recording they ever actually went live if they had technical problems, they ever had to scrap the edited tape and just go live?

Well, since I don't know the answers to any of those questions*, I'm willing to believe that it had happened somewhere, some time, and could maybe happen again.

And the soap operas of the 80s were amateurish enough to make the scenario beliewvable.

^Exactly. I was an avid soaps watcher in the 70s and 80s and I thought they were spot on down to the sappy music. And having to perform a scene live because tape was destroyed didn’t seem far fetched at all.

Jessica’s Oscar win for Tootsie.

Any one of those performances could have won. They were all worthy.

Jessica was a huge Kim Stanley fan. Also, it was classy of her to reference working with Teri Garr in the movie since I don’t think m they had any scenes together.

I’m sure Jessica would rather have won for Frances.

By 1970 all the soaps had switched to prerecorded, but most of them had made the change years earlier.

By the time Tootsie came out many people never knew that any soaps had been live 20 years earlier.

And even in the film, it does not make sense not to simply do a reshoot earlier in the day. If you could broadcast live, why not just shoot it an hour earlier?

A lot of television magazines and news programs were shooting and then broadcasting only hours later--so we were used to seeing that done.

Minor plot incidents can be contrived, but when the climax of the film is built on a weird contrivance even people who enjoy the film roll their eyes. (This is the same discussion we had in my office the week the film came out. Most people loved it but were taken out of the film by that scene. )

Excellent screenplay.

R140 is a pill.

Just answering R136

I know younger people tend to lump all past decades together, so I understood the question. I myself never knew that soaps were ever live till the 90s when I worked with an ex-soap actor who talked about the early days so it seemed a reasonable question.

Rita tells the cast they have 26 minutes to get ready to go live. The tape was destroyed the day the show aired. Earlier in the movie when tape is destroyed they stay late to reshoot the scenes to air the following day.

Glenn should have won this year, she and Streep would have made a lovely couple of beauties backstage.

Sopbie's Choice is one of the few roles/performances which would likely win in almost every year.

Jessica would have won for Frances in any other year except against Meryl in Sophie’s Choice.

If anything is not believable in Tootsie it’s when Michael/Dorothy shows up at the soap audition with no resume claiming her agent sent her. Uh no. She would never have made it past the receptionist.

I'm very proud of being a woman, Dr. Brewster.

Not threatening enough? How about this? You take your hand off my shoulder or I'll knee you in the balls. Is that enough of a threat?

Did Jessica get her titties out?

What soap do you think they based it on? I know it was placed in NY but that executive producer had to be modeled on Gloria Monty. Even looked like her.

The last soaps aired live in 1975, so it wasn't that much before Tootsie. And, Search for Tomorrow had a live episode in 1983 supposedly because of missing tapes.

But, but... my co-workers and I said it was WRONG!!!

Interesting that Jessica won not only the Oscar for Tootsie, but the NY Film Critics, National Board of Review, National Society Film of Critics and Globe supporting actress for it (Close won in LA), so all these groups had the same consensus. Let’s give it to Jess for her big year and Frances. If it wasn’t for Frances, I guess Close would’ve pulled it off. It was one of the strongest years for this category. Lesley was my personal fav. I still laugh like hell watching Victor Victoria and I’ve seen it a million times. Jessica was great in Tootsie though. She brought the film down to earth with all the chaos and crazy comedy surrounding it. She excels at the scene at the door in her dressing room talking to Dorothy and at the end with Michael.

There are a lot of avid soap opera fans here (perhaps TOO avid) but your average movie goer - especially in the pre-Internet early 80s) doesn’t know how soap operas are produced or filmed.

Some of them probably thought soaps WERE still performed live, every day.

[quote]R147 If anything is not believable in Tootsie it’s when Michael/Dorothy shows up at the soap audition with no resume claiming her agent sent her. Uh no. She would never have made it past the receptionist.

That IS kind of It is strange that they’d HIRE Dorothy without reviewing a resume... but auditions do happen last minute, depending on when a client gets into town, etc.

Dealing with receptionists etc. sometimes just boils down to attitude. I once had a last minute audition for a Broadway show (referred by the playwright) and had to get through to the casting people to pick up the script. If I were nervous about bluffing my way through i probably would have been screened out, but something about the way I said, “I have to speak to who ever is casting ‘_____’” made them put me right through. I arranged the time slot and the script pick up, and I don’t think they ever called the playwright himself. Sometimes when you’re secure in what you’re doing they don’t ask questions.

My point is, I think it’s believable Michael could ACT like someone who’s powerful agent just sent them over last minute.

Meryl should have got this role

R157, as who? Michael/Dorothy?

Good point R156. It seemed strange to me as a non actor but it makes sense hearing you tell it. Thanks!

Of all the cast, Jessica Lange was the weakest link...and she won an oscar...that should tell you all you need to know about the movie.

And all you need to know about Oscar...

Good day, Dr Brewster. I SAiD gOodDay!

The Eleanor Roosevelt story??!?

R160 the movie was a huge hit and received multiple Oscar noms. It’s not the funniest movie ever made but definitely in the top 10. I think a little part of Jessica’s win was she was representing the whole cast.

Lange is the weakest link in the film, despite being in her very actress-y phase. She's actually not that great in Frances.--the whole film is a bit of a turgid, badly edited mess.

And Frances also perpetuated the fictions that Farmer was lobotomized and raped by orderlies--while adding one of its own in the Sam Sheperd character.

I'd like to make her look a little more attractive, how far back can you pull?

How do you feel about Cleveland?

Criticism of Tootsie simply betrays the bad taste of posters on here. The movie is close to a perfect comedy.

In a world with The Lady Eve, The General, Some Like It Hot, Hard Days Night, Kind Hearts and Coronets, Groundhog Day, Annie Hall, Young Frankenstein, and What's Up Doc it is strange to hear that good taste means acknowledging Tootsie as a close to perfect comedy.

Obviously, tastes are subjective. Another man's "Lawrence of Arabia" might be another's "Ishtar." "Tootsie," however, ranks #2 in AFI's Funniest American Movies of All Time, so R168's opinion isn't completely out of left field.

But not everyone needs a list to tell them what is good.

That list has a lot of head scratchers on it.

It's funny, but not as funny as "This is Spinal Tap", which deserved 11 Oscars but was nominated for zero.

[quote]R165 She's actually not that great in Frances.--the whole film is a bit of a turgid, badly edited mess.

That film is not well structured, but Lange is nothing short of fabulous in it. She is no holds barred emotionally committed, like Farmer was in her life. And Lange also brings tenderness to her quieter, more vulnerable scenes.

You have to be a true, dyed in the wool anti-Langist to not only dismiss TOOTSIE, but Lange’s stunning, heralded performance in FRANCES. It’s legendary - [italic]get used to it![/italic]

BOOKING OFFICER: Occupation? R165: Cocksucker.

“- George Fields: Julie thinks your gay? - Michael Dorsey: No, my friend Sandy. - George Fields: Sleep with her, and she'll... - Michael Dorsey: I slept with her once she's still thinks I'm gay! - George Fields: Oh... that's no good, Michael.”

Sidney Pollack is great at delivering lines in this. Did he act before directing?

Geena, talking to an autograph seeking fan outside the studio".....I don't know..I don't write this shit!"

You look like you should be ringing a school bell.

I actually worked as a background actor (then known as “extra”) as a bored teen at the guided tour of Southwest General when Michael is escorting Sandy to her audition. Dustin Hoffman walked up to each of us and said “Hi, I’m Dustin, welcome to our first day of production. Before all hell breaks loose.” And it apparently did, by all accounts. There were enormous amounts of rewriting and the film went over schedule by several days. But the result was worth it. I think it still holds up.

R178 yeah I’ve heard Hoffman and Pollack battled a lot. Any inside scoop?

No inside scoop, sorry, I was just there for that one day at National Studios on West 42nd Street. But there’s a behind the scenes book called Making Tootsie that’s available on Amazon.

R175 yes, he was an actor first. This is from memory, but I believed he studied with Meisner and I’m also pretty sure it was found theatre together where he originally met Redford.

He directed a few films that I hold a soft spot for (Tootsie definitely being his best) but really I miss him most as an actor and overall personality (he was great as a guest on TCM specials and things like that).

From doing theatre together*

Fuck you, thank you, fuck you, thank you

Love, Sydney

Pollack was too ugly to be a successful young actor though he did some character parts later in life.

The fighting between Hoffman and Pollack on the film were legendary and explains why they never worked together again. The blame seems to go more on Hoffman who was known to be a general pain in the ass though ironically the film has one of his best performances.

The fighting between Hoffman and Pollack on the film were legendary and explains why they never worked together again. The blame seems to go more on Hoffman who was known to be a general pain in the ass though ironically the film has one of his best performances.

[quote]I actually worked as a background actor (then known as “extra”)

They're not called extras anymore? Is it considered an un-PC term or something.

Remember when that sad sack Kate Winslet was going around awards circuits praising "the divine Sydney" when she was on her Oscar-grab for "The Reader"?

He'd died the year before and was one of four producers on that awful movie. Part of her Weinstein campaign was a vote-for-Kate is an honor for Sydney!

R96– she’s a drunk.

Jessica should have shown her breasts in this, give something for the chaps

Good day, Dr. Brewster. I said good day!

2nd time mentioned and both forgot the sir at the end.

Jessica was braless when she accepted her Oscar. Wasn’t that enough for the chaps?

Jessica has an odd attitude in her acceptance speech likes she knows now she wont win for Frances. Yeah, thanks.

It came down to Jessica and a woman named Deborah Carney for the role.

Hi, I’m Julie Nichols, hospital slut.

R195 she must have known she had no chance for Frances, La Streep won every precursor award that season

R196, Deborah Carney was a Wilhelmina model, like Lange years prior. She was blandly pretty and never landed a single movie role.

I don't understand why some people think Lange was lead in this; she only had 30 minutes in a 2-hour film.

Not every film has male/female lead. Hoffman was the sole lead in that movie.

Yell that to Teri Garr R200. She’s still complaining Jessica was in the wrong category.

R188, it’s not that it’s non-PC, it’s just considered an outdated term. Another term for background work is “atmosphere” but that’s always been in LA. In the UK they’re known as “supporting artists” but screen credit refers to them as “crowd” as in crowd casting and crowd AD.

Pollack developed a reputation for being one nasty bastard. When he croaked not many people were torn up about it.

Teri Garr on Sydney Pollack: "He just wanted the beautiful, blond, cute, shiksa girls to be nice and shut the fuck up! [Laughs.] God, I'm bad. But that's what he wanted. And that's what the world wants, I think. I'm bitter. Bitter!"

Teri Garr, when asked if there was any bitterness on losing to Jessica Lange: No, she's actually a nice girl. She's got her own problems, being married to that playwright. Anyway, no. Well, okay… I thought both of us shouldn't have been nominated as "supporting," because she was the lead woman in that movie. So that wasn't fair. But it wasn't her fault that it wasn't fair.

R202 well he ended up winning the Oscar three years later, up against titans like Huston and Kurosawa, so the hatred didn’t funnel down to the voting. Pollack had a solid reputation for delivering directing and producing slick, starry studio films which made a profit which all that matters.

Jessica Lange was not the lead female character in Tootsie. Dustin Hoffman was.

R204, he also directed dreck like Havana and The Interpreter.

R206 every director does some shit ones along the way. He peaked with Out of Africa.

R11 wins the DL

I think They Shoot Horses Don't They is his best film.

Not with me as Tolstoy.

I just had a crazy dream Meryl won a second Oscar for playing Margaret Thatcher. Woke up and needed to share

One of the best movies. A movie I could watch over and over... and the song It might be you, is heartbreaking

I like Teri Garr's honesty. I don't think Pollack was that far from the schmuck he played in Eyes Wide Shut--entitled, full of himself, sure he is the cream on top.

His documentary on Frank Gehry is cringe-worthy.

[quote] the song It might be you, is heartbreaking

MARY!

Go, Tootsie, go / Roll, baby, roll.

In a way it is too bad Jessica won that Supporting Oscar. If she hadn't she probably would have won 2 years later for lead actress in Country. An unawarded Jessica would have beat a second for Sally.

and Glenn would have won on her first film and saved herself a life of misery.

Sure, why not? Jessica has made a career of winning awards she didn't deserve.

I think she was deserving of her Emmy for Grey Gardens.

I agree, if she hadn't won she could have got in for Country instead of Sal for Places Of The Fart.

Lange's double nomination brought her tremendous publicity. It hadn't happened in like 4 years. It was really the hype for the double nominations that made her a star more so than the films. She was suddenly a respected actress and not just the King Kong girl.

TOOTSIE was the #2 film at the box office in 1982, after E.T.

make that 40 years

Wow, it's shocking that First Blood only did $47m domestically. I remember it being a much bigger phenomenon. It grossed about as much as The Toy and Firefox, and I remember those being considered disappointments.

First Blood was only a modest hit. It was Rambo that was the blockbuster.

I definitely remember Rambo being much more successful (I think it was the #2 film of 1985, right behind Back to the Future), but I could have sworn First Blood did better. Oh, well.

R221 that’s amazing. When was the last time a great movie for adults made that much money?

I’m genuinely sad to hear that Pollack was a nasty piece of work, but if that’s true, wouldn’t people have stopped working for him, especially as he got older and less “useful?” He literally worked with everyone and in every capacity right up until the bitter end.

Chocolates?! What an insensitive gift for a woman.

Dustin cries talking about the film.

Has it been noted, yet, that Dustin so loved Dorothy that he regretted that he couldn't make her more physically attractive?

Dabney Coleman had a string of hit movies in the early '80s. 9 to 5, On Golden Pond, Tootsie.

Sack Lunch is my favorite Dabney Coleman movie.

R216 I can’t see Lange winning for Country even without Field in the contest. And even with Frances and Tootsie in her column.

God that scene with Pollack and Hoffman was so good.

Doris Belak should have been nominated too; had Lange won for Frances, the Oscar would have gone to Garr.

The movie was brilliant.

Dorothy was based, I'm fairly certain, Eileen Fulton and her performance as Lisa McColl.

Doris Belack was fabulous. Garr got a nomination. That’s enough.

One of my favorite parts of Tootsie was when Tootsie says taxi then Michael Dorsey says TAXI! Then the taxi stops.

There is no "Tootsie" in the film.

At one point Ron says to Dorothy ‘Tootsie, take 10.’

If I recall, the director refers to Dorothy Michales as 'tootsie,' which Dustin Hoffman's character takes offense at. Granted, it's because he a hetero man doesn't want to be talked to that way, but as Dorothy Michaels he puts him in his place about female empowerment without being preachy as it's wont to be these days.

You macho shithead.

I love you, Dorothy. But I can’t LOVE you.

-My name is Dorothy. It's not Tootsie or Toots or Sweetie or Honey or Doll.

-Oh, Christ.

-No, just Dorothy. Alan's always Alan, Tom's always Tom and John's always John. I have a name too. It's Dorothy, capital D-O-R-O-T-H-Y. Dorothy.

I understand who you really are. And I'll no longer submit to your petty insults and humiliations. It's not necessary now that Emily Kimberly's here. Now that someone who sees the truth is your equal. Listen, doctor, I've filed charges against you with the AMA. You'll be notified tomorrow.

Literal VIOLENCE against trans women!!!!!

Did you know that Brazilians, Spanish-speakers, Germans and French can't say the name Dorothy? For some reason they can't pronounce the 'th' in Dorothy or the 'th' in words like the or though.

You are the first woman character who is her own person. Who asserts her own personality without robbing someone of theirs. You're a breakthrough lady for us. We're picking up your option for another year. Congratulations.

Maybe your contract has a morals clause. If Dorothy did something filthy or disgusting, they'd let you go. But you've already done everything filthy and disgusting on your show.

That is one nutty hospital.

I see the Dumptard, spewing vitriol against Magisterial Lange, is still alive and well on DL. Some things never change...

Digression, but Lange is great as Joan Crawford in Feud on Netflix. Susan Sarandon is NOT great as Bette Davis.

R250, I thought the opposite. You must hate Sarandon. You're biased.

Neither one of them were all that great, but Lange was way better than Sarandon, who was horribly miscast.

Neither Sarandon nor Lange were great in "Duel", which was a shame. The show wasn't worth making without great central performances.

Duel? This is what I get for typing while watching TV.

I didn't hate Sarandon until I became a DLer.

This is a Tootsie thread girls, not a Susan Sarandon bashing thread.

Every thread should be a Sue Sarandon bashing thread.

Lange is pretty brace to let it all hang out as Joan. She captures the fixed, staring eyes.

brave, brash, bracing, braless

I'm not sure what I'm typing these day.

Does Jess need braces? Invisilign or Smile Direct Club?

I love "hagsploitation." Shouldn't that be a category in Datalounge Jeopardy?

Jess will be in the remake of Lady in a Cage.

It would have been awesome if Joan and Bette (or Lange and Sarandon for that matter) had a Duel instead of a Feud.

G and the “Dumptard” (are they one and the same?) are really frenzied, aren’t they? I have said all that needs to be said about Ms. Lange...

It’s been fast forwarded for your convenience.

IMO, Sarandon looked the part, but was rather underwhelming as Bette Davis. She seemed to be afraid to go all out. In particular, the scene where she sings the title song on Andy Williams' show was a bit cringey, because she seemed embarrassed. Watch the real deal and Davis hams it up and just having fun.

As for Lange, I didn't recognize Joan Crawford at all. She reminded me too much of Leona Helmsley.

Overall, I was disappointed in the series, because Ryan Murphy had an agenda. He said he wanted to rehabilitate Crawford's image, even if it meant skewing history.

Lange was marvelous in FEUD, bringing forth the hitherto unknown, undervalued, and underestimated facets of Joan Crawford. Though she doesn’t have Crawford’s doe-like eyes, Lange’s regal, sharply-angled face bore enough of a resemblance to Crawford’s to be more than satisfying; both share a similar silhouette.

She also captured Crawford’s ever-shifting voice, from the guttural (see Strait-Jacket trailer) to the more melodic (see video below, which highlights how much Lange did sound like Crawford) tones.

Emotionally, Lange ran the gamut and nailed Crawford’s peaks and valleys. She should have won the Emmy but Kidman was riding the #MeToo wave of 2017. Plus, to be fair, it was sort of her comeback, and Lange had already nabbed 3 Emmys in less than 7 years. I suppose the fact that she was nominated for everything for this (Emmy, Globe, SAG, TCA, Critics Choice) is enough of a reward.

Both Lange and Sarandon chose to go the “less is more” route and as a result, the show is all the more poignant and heartbreaking. It’s also compulsively rewatchable. Watching those two together is like watching a masterclass waltz between two genius dancers.

FEUD should’ve won miniseries. It is my favorite thing Ryan Murphy has ever done, and probably the best filmed project Lange (along with Grey Gardens and AHS: Coven) and Sarandon (along with The Meddler) have done in about 15-20 years. The cast, the costumes, the cinematography - all of it was pitch perfect.

I’ve probably watched my FYC copy over a dozen times since 2017. Just exquisite all around.

“When I put those clothes on, something happens...”

I see the Lange Loon at R266 has taken being a MARY!!! to new levels of histrionics

R268 I’ve missed you, you skulking cunt.

This exchange always cracks me up.

Julie: I know I'm pretty and I use it. I just guess I shouldn't have gone to Dr. Brewster's office so late. Dorothy: Well, no, that's not true. You know, Dr. Brewster has tried to seduce several nurses on this ward. Always claiming to be in the throes of an uncontrollable impulse. Do you know what? Ron: Uh-oh. Dorothy: I think I'm gonna give every nurse on this floor an electric cattle prod, and just instruct them to just zap him in his badoobies. Ron: Cattle prod! Dorothy: Ruby? Hi, you wanna open the yellow pages under the section, Farm Equipment retail...

Love that scene, R271. You can tell Hoffman made Lange laugh spontaneously with his ad libbing.

Lange is effervescent in Tootsie, displaying an aching subtlety and bittersweet melancholy that grounds the film, giving a rare poignancy to what is essentially a slapstick, though extremely witty, comedy. Her performance elicits autonomous sensory meridian responses to the max.

What if Lange and Garr switched roles? I could see Garr pull off playing Julie but not Jessica as Sandy.

Totally agree with you, r272 about Lange. She elevates what is little more than a standard ingenue role to something very luscious and poignant and unique

Lange was at her peak beauty in Tootsie era, which has an ethereal quality. Garr, while attractive, does not have this quality which is essential to the Julie character. Any actor can portray a neurotic out of work actor. It's basically like playing themselves!

Garr was also beautiful and could play the softness and sweetness of Julie. I don't know about the ethereal part though. Lange could never have done comedically what Garr did with Sandy. She just doesn't have that in her arsenal.

Garr was never ethereal like Lange. Her sexiness and humor were in her daffiness and there's nothing wrong with that. Tootsie is brilliantly cast and the fact those 2 young sexy blondes are so different is a strength.

Sandy did have a Cinderella Complex though.

"I read the Cinderella Complex, I know I'm responsible for my own orgasm! I don't care, I just don't like being lied to!"

R273 I think Lange could’ve pulled something just as funny off. Watch her in “Crimes of the Heart” or “Men Don’t Leave” or the more recent “Wild Oats” and you can see she naturally has a bit of the comedienne in her; all tragediennes do.

Unfortunately, Teri Garr wouldn’t have been as alluring as Julie, though I feel she could’ve brought the poignancy.

It’s interesting and notable that no other actress - not even M - could’ve played Lange’s Oscar winning roles as successfully as she did. The mix of beauty, allure, subtlety, and pathos, she brought to both is singularly exquisite.

Lange was good in COTH. I will give you that. But could she have pulled off the comic insecurity as well as Garr did? Garr even came up with her own dialogue in the last scene. Could Lange have done that.

Oh, I don’t know, R281. She probably wouldn’t have done any of the improvising which really is what makes Sandy so fab. Then again, I’ve learned never to underestimate Lange. She really surprised me with how good she was, comedically speaking, in “Wild Oats.”

She was also funny in The Politician.

I saw an interview where Lange said she had never done a comedy before "Tootsie." She conveniently forgot "How to Beat the High Cost of Living," which she did only 2 years prior.

Oh Matt. You always suck people into your Jessica fan delusions. Glad they let you out of the mental hospital.

R284, we were in that film, too! Give us some recognition, bitch!

R285 Always projecting yourself onto others, Matt. I would have thought you would’ve gotten help with that by now. Then again, seeing as you’re still here years later... Tsk tsk. Still hating on Lange and suspecting “the goyim” around every corner, I see.

She had comical moments in Sweet Dreams as well especially with Ann Wedgeworth who played her long suffering mother.

R288 So true 😂!

I loved the chemistry between Lange and Wedgeworth, who was excellent and would go on to play Lange’s mother again in Sam Shepard’s severely underrated “Far North.”

Two of my favorite moments in the film include the drive back home, towards the beginning, when they both crack each other up, and during the scene when Patsy is about to give birth and calls Charlie a “son of a bitch.”

Hilda: You stop that dirty talk now. He’ll be here soon... That son of a bitch!

Patsy: :::breaks out in infectious laughter::: Oh, mama.

They were so good together.

Ann Wedgeworth was Lana. What a bitch.

I see the Lange Loon is off her meds again. Blue Sky is weak, and the role of Julie something almost any actress could play. Go back to bed, sweetie.

Dustin talks about preparing for Tootsie.

r230, we must never forget that Dabney Coleman showed his beautiful ass in "Modern Problems" (1981).

I thought I was the only one who craved Dabney Coleman's ass I jerked off to it SO man times. LOL

TOO BAD no frontal from DC

Dabney Coleman? SERIOUSLY?! OMFG!!!!

Dabney Coleman always seemed like he'd throw a mean fuck. And if he were gay, he'd be the sleaziest whore - in the best possible way. Granted maybe I'm getting this from the roles he plays - but still. Lol. Nice ass.

Dabney Coleman accepting his Golden Globe in full “Dabney Coleman mode.”

(Incidentally this is the first Globes I ever watched so I remember it well.)

That clip reminded me of this one with fellow cast member Geena Davis.

Dabney Coleman had a nice body and a great ass. He was 49-years-old when he bared his ass in Modern Problems.

Lange and Streep

Hey G, look at R301's pic. Just think, we won even MORE Oscars later on.

^^^ Tiresome.

“I lost Garp to Jessica Lange in Tootsie, so that didn’t make me feel bad.”

G has so many years of losing. Pack it in, G.

I know this is probably upthread but I still love this one.

Don't be silly. Of course we got to 307 posts on a Tootsie without mentioning "How do you feel about Cleveland."

I love the “sexy juicy beefsteak tomato” bit. Dusty is too much in this, lol.

Dudley and Jessica

Dudley should have played Dorothy.

With Susan Anton as Julie?

Dudley would've made a lovely Dorothy.

Dudley Moore was hilarious. I even tolerated his "bad" films like Romantic Comedy, Arthur 2: On the Rocks, Lovesick, Unfaithfully Yours, and Six Weeks. However, I'll never watch Like Father, Like Son because that asshead Kirk Cameron is in it.

What type of shoes is Lange wearing at R309?

What part did Estelle Getty do? I don't remember her at all.

She was part of a couple on the dance floor who spot Dorothy on her date with Charles Durning and they say how much they love her. It's blink and you miss her.

R316 The music during that scene coupled with Dorothy’s subtle bouncing always makes me laugh my ass off.

R309, Jimmy Choo

R316 was she on set the same day as future daughter Gloria?

"Dorothy. D-O-R-O-T-H-Y. Dorothy."

Did you know that Portuguese-speakers, Spanish-speakers, French-speakers, and German-speakers can't say 'Dorothy' properly, because they can't pronounce the 'th' in 'thumb' and the 'th' in 'this.'

R321 neither can Rita Moreno.

R319R/322 you must be a Golden Girls fanatic.

Found these gems. Surprised they weren’t included on the Criterion edition.

Part 2

Estelle Getty is listed in the credits as "Middle-Aged Woman".

Meryl lost Sweet Dreams to Jessica and later admitted she couldn’t have done it any better. They have a mutual admiration which is refreshing.

Who gives a shit?

Sydney Pollack was a hot daddy!

Sydney was *my* daddy!

I would’ve let Sydney penetrate, for sure. Something very sexy about him.

Julie and Dorothy, lezzing-it-up.