Hello and thank you for being a DL contributor. We are changing the login scheme for contributors for simpler login and to better support using multiple devices. Please click here to update your account with a username and password.

Hello. Some features on this site require registration. Please click here to register for free.

Hello and thank you for registering. Please complete the process by verifying your email address. If you can't find the email you can resend it here.

Hello. Some features on this site require a subscription. Please click here to get full access and no ads for $1.99 or less per month.

Pope OKs Same-Sex Unions

A little nice news.

Yes, I know the Church is still ... it has a lot of problems.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 93October 25, 2020 9:18 PM

This is a gigantic leap forward.

[quote]Matteo Bruni, a spokesman for the Vatican, declined to comment until he had seen the movies and the pope’s remarks.

I agree with Sr. Bruni, let's wait and see before we throw a parade.

by Anonymousreply 1October 21, 2020 2:56 PM

Wow.

by Anonymousreply 2October 21, 2020 2:57 PM

Is he seeing anyone?

by Anonymousreply 3October 21, 2020 2:59 PM

No points, and no credit for taking this long and it doesn't erase the few thousand years of homophobia and pain they've caused gays.

Plus - I'll believe it when I see it.

It's a morally corrupt organization. Who cares what the fuck they think?

by Anonymousreply 4October 21, 2020 3:00 PM

Is cocksucking allowed, or is that still reserved for the priests and the altar boys?

by Anonymousreply 5October 21, 2020 3:02 PM

[quote]“What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered,” Francis said amid remarks in which he otherwise reiterated his support for gay people as children of God. “I stood up for that.”

We've had those for a while now, thanks. But yes, a big step forward for the Catholic church, and a welcome sign of enlightenment in a dark world.

by Anonymousreply 6October 21, 2020 3:04 PM

this is crazy!

by Anonymousreply 7October 21, 2020 3:06 PM

While I don't downplay the significance of this, the Church's position still officially remains that homosexuality is "intrinsically disordered." While I do hope that this has the power to save some lives in countries where LGBTQ+ are routinely put to death, my biggest joy from this will be seeing ultra-conservative Catholics having strokes over this announcement.

by Anonymousreply 8October 21, 2020 3:18 PM

R8 Oh it's already started. So Progressive Priest on Twitter like Fr. Dan Horan, Fr. James Martin and Fr. Beck are all celebrating. While the hardcore conservative Catholics like Fr. Mike Schmitz are either not saying anything or openly whining and being hateful.

by Anonymousreply 9October 21, 2020 3:21 PM

How exactly do you say "intrinsically disordered" in Latin?

by Anonymousreply 10October 21, 2020 3:23 PM

Baby steps. No matter what, this is a very important development for huge parts of the world, particularly in developing countries where LGBTQ rights is still big problem.

But this pope is probably the most progressive one in like ever. He has been pushing many left policies and agendas. Particularly on economic issues.

by Anonymousreply 11October 21, 2020 3:25 PM

I have very smart friend who is a practicing Catholic and a delightful person who has for years said that the RC church needs to re-think its doctrine on human sexuality. Looks like maybe Francis agrees.

by Anonymousreply 12October 21, 2020 3:30 PM

Pope Francis is a power bottom.

by Anonymousreply 13October 21, 2020 3:42 PM

R9 - why would you follow priests on Twitter like they're stars or politicians?

by Anonymousreply 14October 21, 2020 3:55 PM

And the man can go up into the man?

by Anonymousreply 15October 21, 2020 4:00 PM

So basically the Pope said something that most reasonably-minded people have thought for years now?

by Anonymousreply 16October 21, 2020 4:02 PM

Note, however, the Pope doesn't say gay marriage is fine. This is a desperate effort to stop the gay marriage movement--which cannot really be stopped at this point.

by Anonymousreply 17October 21, 2020 4:02 PM

Bill Donohue's head is going to explode.

by Anonymousreply 18October 21, 2020 4:03 PM

Wanna bet?

by Anonymousreply 19October 21, 2020 4:03 PM

They’re gonna have to pull a JP I.

by Anonymousreply 20October 21, 2020 4:04 PM

Our reaction needs to be strategic. One approach is, I'm not upset when the Catholic Church condemns me. I disregard them because they don't govern me. A pope doesn't OK my union; I do. The law should. Fuck the Catholic Church and I'm not going to be grateful for a corrupt racket's grudging and belated what? allowance of what is not their business? No. Fuck it. I wouldn't discuss this outside of the DL because doing so suggests I'm relieved or grateful. I would publicly write up a "gays say believing in a magical sky god is... okay, if it helps you in these hard times." See how they like the presumption.

by Anonymousreply 21October 21, 2020 4:06 PM

I smell a schism in the air.

by Anonymousreply 22October 21, 2020 4:08 PM

This Pope is a rock star on so many fronts. Remember when he shaded Trump by asking Melania "Oh my, what do you feed him?"

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 23October 21, 2020 4:12 PM

Who gives a shit?

by Anonymousreply 24October 21, 2020 4:15 PM

I bet Benedict had a grand mal seizure when this news came out.

by Anonymousreply 25October 21, 2020 4:21 PM

R25 Isn't Benny basically a drooling vegetable at this point?

by Anonymousreply 26October 21, 2020 4:26 PM

As far as the Pope goes, is there any difference between civil partnership and civil marriage?

by Anonymousreply 27October 21, 2020 4:30 PM

I hope our next Supreme Court justice is a good Catholic and relies on the Pope for her judicial decisions. Right.

by Anonymousreply 28October 21, 2020 4:32 PM

How did they elect this dude?

by Anonymousreply 29October 21, 2020 4:35 PM

[quote]I bet Benedict had a grand mal seizure when this news came out.

Are you kidding? We're already looking at the place settings and invitations. Don't have much time!

by Anonymousreply 30October 21, 2020 4:50 PM

[quote]So basically the Pope said something that most reasonably-minded people have thought for years now?

This isn't for you. You're not his audience. This is for the world's billion Catholics. It matters. I think Francis is the first historical rockstar figure of this century.

by Anonymousreply 31October 21, 2020 5:43 PM

Imagine being a young Catholic who is gay or a lesbian. This probably makes them feel like they are just as normal and loved by their God as the Catholics who are hetero. It's a step in the right directions regardless of whether you believe in religion or not. Anything to help LGB youth feel safe and I'm always for condemning the homophobic trash who mistreat them.

by Anonymousreply 32October 21, 2020 5:55 PM

This would have been nice to toss in my Catholic, homophobic father’s face when I was in high school.

So if it helps young gays in Catholic families worldwide, then yes, great Francis.

by Anonymousreply 33October 21, 2020 6:04 PM

I agree with R21. Still, this Pope is no dope.

by Anonymousreply 34October 21, 2020 6:24 PM

R31 - oh barf. The first historical rockstar figure?

Man - seriously, you've let the church play way too much importance in your life - particularly if you're invested in one man. He's just a guy trying to pull an antiquated, corrupt organization into something that remotely resembles modern life.

Nobody should be following this man - it's idolatry and slave mentality.

by Anonymousreply 35October 21, 2020 6:24 PM

R32 well put

by Anonymousreply 36October 21, 2020 6:34 PM

Anything that makes the religious masses reconsider their loopy positions is ok. I don't need the approval of the Catholic Church but others may, both gay and straight, so I'd far rather he said this than said the opposite or said nothing.

by Anonymousreply 37October 21, 2020 7:08 PM

It seems that my meeting with Il Papa was a success.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 38October 21, 2020 7:17 PM

It's a big thing for gay Catholics. Basically it is saying gay committed relationships are not sinful. Not worthy of sacramental marriage but not sinful. Why? Because of its implications. Catholic social teaching strives to be all of a piece, consistent in principle. It takes time to draw out the implications but the church does not advocate for something harmful to society, ergo...

by Anonymousreply 39October 21, 2020 7:31 PM

More proof that he's actually Jim Nabors.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 40October 21, 2020 7:32 PM

It’s just a comment. Call me when it’s official doctrine. I won’t be sitting by the phone.

by Anonymousreply 41October 21, 2020 7:38 PM

I dissent.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 42October 21, 2020 7:39 PM

Wow, I cannot believe no one related this to ACB!!!

The Pope is preemptively trying to stop the court from relitigating gay marriage in the US. Think of the moral authority he holds over six of those judges. And if I’m right, this makes the situation with gay marriage and SCOTUS even more terrifying because this then also means that the Pope is expecting a challenge on gay marriage.

As others have stated, this is indeed a huge deal because while the average DLer has nothing to do with religion, that’s simply not the world we live in. Francis’ statement validates gay people, there are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands who will hear this and feel affirmed as a human being. In addition, he will be able to speak out against SCOTUS when they try to undo gay marriage.

by Anonymousreply 43October 21, 2020 7:59 PM

I'm sure this went over like a turd in a punch bowl in Amy's holier than thou, wholesome, god-fearing household.

by Anonymousreply 44October 21, 2020 8:11 PM

[quote] Francis’ statement validates gay people, there are undoubtedly hundreds of thousands who will hear this and feel affirmed as a human being.

HOWEVER, did Francis specifically mean that civil unions are acceptable but not gay marriage?

I can see SCOTUS coming up with a ruling that says that gays deserve the same rights as married straights--so the state has to come up with civil unions and stop calling it "marriage"

by Anonymousreply 45October 21, 2020 8:13 PM

R44

by Anonymousreply 46October 21, 2020 8:13 PM

R45, totally true. I think what Francis is trying to say that while the church wants to continue to marry straights only, the church will now have to recognize gay couples as a true marriage because the marriage is recognized by the government. To be sure, it’s a baby step and not our end goal. But it’s a step toward us, not away from us.

by Anonymousreply 47October 21, 2020 8:17 PM

R45, totally true. I think what Francis is trying to say that while the church wants to continue to marry straights only, the church will now have to recognize gay couples as a true marriage because the marriage is recognized by the government. To be sure, it’s a baby step and not our end goal. But it’s a step toward us, not away from us.

by Anonymousreply 48October 21, 2020 8:17 PM

[quote] the church will now have to recognize gay couples as a true marriage

I assume you meant "not" have to recognize

by Anonymousreply 49October 21, 2020 8:20 PM

No r49 — their de facto leader just stated that gay marriages are legit marriages. Am I missing something? Francis wants to allow the church to have the autonomy to say when THEY marry people, they marry straights, but that gay marriages are still a need in our society. I’m not defending this rationale, I think churches are foolish to not marry gay people, it’s part of why they are losing people, the churches are all behind the cultural changes by at least 30 years.

by Anonymousreply 50October 21, 2020 8:24 PM

But for the Catholics (and most other religies) marriage is a sacrament, so they can wiggle around recognition. And presumably will while the Church leadership gets used to the idea. So that's only another thousand years or so.

by Anonymousreply 51October 21, 2020 8:38 PM

I was raised Catholic, and consider this very good news, even though I no longer follow the doctrine and dogma with which I was raised. My late parents would have been overjoyed, since they had to arrive at the same conclusion without any support from the Church.

by Anonymousreply 52October 21, 2020 8:51 PM

Does this mean gays who are in a civil union can have sex without it being a sin?

by Anonymousreply 53October 21, 2020 8:57 PM

[quote] their de facto leader just stated that gay marriages are legit marriages. Am I missing something?

Quite a bit.

by Anonymousreply 54October 21, 2020 9:08 PM

Do elaborate then r54.

by Anonymousreply 55October 21, 2020 9:17 PM

I am not a Catholic, but my understanding is that the Pope is saying that gay marriages will now fall into the same category as marriages of divorced heterosexual people, sinful, not something they’d bless and not even in their eyes a real marriage, but they’ll stop opposing secular recognition of the unions.

by Anonymousreply 56October 21, 2020 9:24 PM

Your ignorance is too vast. Do some reading.

Fir example:

“Many gay Catholics and their allies outside the church welcomed the pope’s remarks, even as they said they understood Francis’s opposition to gay marriage within the church remained absolute.”

“Francis has a tendency for off-the-cuff public remarks that maddens both supporters and critics alike. The comments in the film are likely to generate exactly the sort of discussion the pope has repeatedly sought to foster inside the church on issues once considered forbidden in the church’s culture wars.

“Francis had already drastically shifted the tone of the church on questions related to homosexuality, but he has done little on policy and not changed doctrine, leading even some of his more liberal supporters to question whether he was mostly talk.

“ Whether the new remarks will have any bearing on policy is another matter, especially in a church that sees its future growth in African, South American and Asian countries that are less tolerant of homosexuality.”

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 57October 21, 2020 9:25 PM

He said nothing about gay marriage.

He SPECIFICALLY says Gay unions should be allowed in the form of CIVIL UNIONS. So, the church doesn't have to get involved and won't have to recognize them as marriages,

by Anonymousreply 58October 21, 2020 9:29 PM

His exact words are "homosexual people are 'children of God' and that they 'have the right to be in a family'.

The message is very clear to me, even though some may try to spin this one way or the other.

by Anonymousreply 59October 21, 2020 9:36 PM

Can gay boys go to church now?

by Anonymousreply 60October 21, 2020 11:23 PM

Male supermodel Garrett Neff, on whose gayness we have yet to rule conclusively, posted twice on the subject in his IG stories today.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 61October 21, 2020 11:44 PM

First he posted this shot.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 62October 21, 2020 11:46 PM

R57 Doctrine can’t and will never change. He’s just stirring things up for his own political ends which he likes to do.

by Anonymousreply 63October 21, 2020 11:53 PM

[quote] R4: No points, and no credit for taking this long and it doesn't erase the few thousand years of homophobia and pain they've caused gays...

You’ve got to be kidding. The Pope already made this statement for his diocese in Argentina when he was stationed there.

At least, the Church believes in redemption.

by Anonymousreply 64October 22, 2020 12:07 AM

Doctrine evolves. Gay saint John Henry Cardinal Newman taught that.

by Anonymousreply 65October 22, 2020 12:41 AM

[Quote] Matteo Bruni, a spokesman for the Vatican, declined to comment until he had seen the movies and the pope’s remarks.

The Vatican spokesman was blind sided by the Pope? Guy went off the cuff?

by Anonymousreply 66October 22, 2020 1:08 AM

I had kinda turned away from the church, but now my partner and I are going to be attending Mass every Sunday again. Thank Pope Francis!

by Anonymousreply 67October 22, 2020 2:30 AM

Amy Corona Gardenparty isn't a true Catholic anymore. She's in a creepy, renegade sect that broke away.

by Anonymousreply 68October 22, 2020 2:45 AM

I hope his priests can form civil unions and be proud and out.

by Anonymousreply 69October 22, 2020 4:53 AM

So does this mean the Catholic Church will perform a civil ceremony? What do they have to do with civil unions???

by Anonymousreply 70October 22, 2020 5:03 AM

R69, they want kids. There is no reason to go into the priesthood because you’re gay.

by Anonymousreply 71October 22, 2020 5:04 AM

No longer will hardcore Catholics tell their gay kids they're sinful and they're going to burn in hell for eternity. This is huge.

by Anonymousreply 72October 22, 2020 6:48 AM

[Quote] There is no reason to go into the priesthood because you’re gay.

You mean no longer any reason. Religion and entertainment have in all cultures traditionally been the havens for gay people living out side the norms of society.

by Anonymousreply 73October 22, 2020 9:00 AM

I'm going to start going to some Jesuit now. The Jesuits tend to be decent with the gays.

by Anonymousreply 74October 22, 2020 11:22 AM

some Jesuit parish^

by Anonymousreply 75October 22, 2020 11:23 AM

Jesuits don’t have parishes.

by Anonymousreply 76October 22, 2020 11:53 AM

I decided to dip into the dark recesses of Catholic Twitter and I would say the reactions are mixed. There is of course the far-right that is HUGELY vocal but I don't think represents the majority. Most people either support or are indifferent. What I find interesting is a number of prominent priests on social media have said nothing (Fr. Casey Cole, Fr. Mike Schmitz etc.) and then others who I suspect are gay anyways (Fr. Beck, Fr. Horan) have all come out in support.

by Anonymousreply 77October 22, 2020 3:49 PM

What the Catholic Church's relationship to the Christianity Jesus taught is a mystery to me. The Protestant Churches are no better.

They've all become about power and money

by Anonymousreply 78October 22, 2020 4:03 PM

R76 is a royal ass. Wikipedia lists 15 Jesuit parishes in the US. I've attached the one that I am thinking of joining. It has a gay group. It was also Jackie O's parish.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 79October 22, 2020 4:03 PM

R79, why in the 21st century would you join a cult?

by Anonymousreply 80October 23, 2020 7:10 AM

Does this mean we have to start going to church now? The best thing about the Catholicism's homophobia was to tell the church to fuck off which meant never having to go to church again. Now my Judaism conversion is all for nothing!

Pope Francis is the rockstar of Popes. He's opening doors!

by Anonymousreply 81October 23, 2020 7:23 AM

You need to define culture, R80. It is not a cult by social science definitions. But you don't mean that. You mean, "What I don't like." Is the Church of England a cult too? To say so indicates how ludicrous your statement is. Other than being more conservative in doctrine the two organizations are largely the same.

by Anonymousreply 82October 23, 2020 10:24 AM

R77 I am lapsed Catholic but I do follow some of the more "progressive" priests on Twitter.....so....Fr. Casey Cole and Fr. Dan Horan have had some kind of falling out (odd given they are priests and supposed to preach forgiveness). But neither follow each other on social media any more. I believe it stems back to the fact that Cole said something negative about BLM a few months ago that landed him in hot water (which he deleted).

by Anonymousreply 83October 24, 2020 5:23 PM

I appreciated that Pope Francis is an animal lover, but I became a big fan when he viciously slapped that pushy Asian woman.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 84October 24, 2020 5:28 PM

Will the Pope officiate our civil union ceremony?

by Anonymousreply 85October 24, 2020 5:46 PM

Is the pope a devotee of the "When will Chris Mazdzer dick pics leak?" thread? Or is "Nick Sandell doing yoga naked" more his kind of thread?

by Anonymousreply 86October 24, 2020 6:35 PM

Francis clarified that homosexual acts are still forbidden. So it’s sexless pseudo-marriage y’all are celebrating. Wee-ha!

by Anonymousreply 87October 24, 2020 6:45 PM

[quote]You need to define culture, [R80]. It is not a cult by social science definitions. But you don't mean that. You mean, "What I don't like." Is the Church of England a cult too? To say so indicates how ludicrous your statement is.

R79/R82, don't have a cow. The term "cult" was originally employed by scholars of religion to signify a system of activities centering on an object of worship. That's all it was, and in that sense, all religions were 'cults,' including the Church of England. Sectarian polemics since the 1970s (and by this I mean crap like Walter Martin's 𝑇ℎ𝑒 𝐾𝑖𝑛𝑔𝑑𝑜𝑚 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝐶𝑢𝑙𝑡𝑠, the output of Jeremiah Films, and others) irreversibly altered the meaning of the word in the mind of the public to such an extent that scholars were unable to fully reclaim it from a pejorative connotation. Now it's said to denote "a small group" relative to larger religious groups, and it has been quipped that when cults achieve sufficient size, they become religions. But all the negative features considered characteristic of cults - brainwashing, groupthink, excessive control, slavish obedience to an authority figure, abuse of authority, fraud, false claims - are also exhibited by what are otherwise considered mainstream religions. So there's not much difference, really.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 88October 24, 2020 6:53 PM

[quote]Doctrine can’t and will never change.

Doctrine changes constantly, R63, whenever it suits particular pontiffs. For example, in 1854, Pius IX added 'The Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.' In 1950, Pius XII added 'The Doctrine of the Assumption.' No version of the Catechism ever mentioned or discussed homosexuality until 1993, when it was added.

by Anonymousreply 89October 24, 2020 7:00 PM

^^ marry me.

by Anonymousreply 90October 24, 2020 7:16 PM

Mea maxima culpa

by Anonymousreply 91October 24, 2020 8:49 PM

[quote]On Thursday, Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro asked his country’s legislature to consider a same-sex marriage bill, citing the words of Pope Francis. In the developing world, Maduro will not be the last politician to use that approach.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 92October 25, 2020 6:00 AM

R82, cult means a group that believes in weird, fake ideas

by Anonymousreply 93October 25, 2020 9:18 PM
Loading
Need more help? Click Here.

Yes indeed, we too use "cookies." Take a look at our privacy/terms or if you just want to see the damn site without all this bureaucratic nonsense, click ACCEPT. Otherwise, you'll just have to find some other site for your pointless bitchery needs.

×

Become a contributor - post when you want with no ads!