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Will you ever sit and re watch Game of Thrones again?

Knowing how shitty it ended, I can say I will probably never have an interest in sitting down to watch it through again.

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by Anonymousreply 130October 26, 2020 9:27 AM

Maybe in a few years.

by Anonymousreply 1October 19, 2020 2:02 AM

When it ended, I was very disappointed. I understand GoT was never great art or anything, thought the fans tearing their hair out were a little dramatic and thought it had been going downhill for many seasons.

That said, I haven't even been tempted to rewatch since it ended. The early seasons of that show were pure entertainment, exactly my idea of escapist, mostly grown-up fun TV. But they really, really butchered the ending. It was so bad it almost felt wilful, like someone was taking revenge or working with a huge grudge or something. Or possibly deeply hated the audience and wanted to spit in their face? I dunno. I would love to know the background, though. I heard HBO wanted more seasons, not sure why they couldn't make that happen...

by Anonymousreply 2October 19, 2020 2:04 AM

I haven't seen the the end yet so SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SELFISH PIGS!

by Anonymousreply 3October 19, 2020 2:06 AM

Haven’t watched it yet. I’m told by everyone to watch, but I’m skeptical. I just have never been into gladiator/dungeons/dragons stuff. I lived for “Six Feet Under,” the Sopranos, Breaking Bad......I just think watching historical drama would be a stretch.

by Anonymousreply 4October 19, 2020 2:11 AM

I have not watched it, and I refuse to until George RR Martin finishes the fucking books - which I stopped reading after a Feast for Crows, and will re-read from the beginning once the final book comes out.

Robert Jordan died not long after A Feast for Crows came out, and I am not getting burned like that again. Sanderson did a pretty good job in finishing The Wheel of Time, but it wasn't the same as it would have been if Jordan had stopped dicking around with prequels and such, and had finished the series before kicking off.

With the amount of nonsense Martin wastes his time on instead of finishing the damn series, I don't have a lot of faith that he will live to finish it. If he does, I will pick it up again from the beginning, and after that I MAY watch the series.

by Anonymousreply 5October 19, 2020 2:12 AM

R2, the ending was so poor that I’m sure an exposé book, film or at least article must be coming to explain it. Was it simply that without the books, the producers & writers couldn’t produce anything like the standard of earlier seasons, or as you say, was there some kind of weird sabotage involved?

I heard Benioff & Weiss wanted to bring the series to a close to do other projects and felt they had got the leverage they needed so didn’t need to carry it more, but I’m not sure that’s working out for them at the moment. Guess we will see. Given the hash they made of GoT once they didn’t have GRRM’s material at least as a template, then won’t be rushing to watch their stuff.

by Anonymousreply 6October 19, 2020 2:13 AM

R4 why did you bother answering? Why? Can you tell us why you had to chime in and waste our time on reading your shitty unqualified answer? The question was "re" watch, not "watch". You don't even qualify for this skank. You have to watch it first so you can even "re" watch it. You're an idiot R4. A fucking lousy idiot who will never understand Game of Thrones, so do us all a favor and NEVER watch it.

by Anonymousreply 7October 19, 2020 2:16 AM

The ending was horrid and totally out of character for what all happened. You could literally see the hbo video game style take over at season five... the characters fell off. I have rewatched, especially the bits with Oberyn Martell. Hot!

by Anonymousreply 8October 19, 2020 2:16 AM

Go fuck yourself, R7. I can "chime in" on any fucking topic I want to, you oozing syphilitic cooze.

by Anonymousreply 9October 19, 2020 2:18 AM

Yes, in a few years with my boyfriend. But I think we'll skip the last season. Not to beat a dead horse, but it was such a let down compared to what had come before it.

by Anonymousreply 10October 19, 2020 2:18 AM

I have only rewatched season 1. I don’t think I will ever rewatch any of it again.

by Anonymousreply 11October 19, 2020 2:18 AM

I still enjoy the first few seasons. Even when it was bad, in the later seasons, there were always some good scenes. I skip the ones with Sam and Gilly, they’re always awful.

by Anonymousreply 12October 19, 2020 2:20 AM

R5, I always forget how relatively young Robert Jordan was at 58 when he died, he seemed older. I guess at that kind of age and before he got sick he would have assumed he had plenty of time to finish off when he started dragging The Wheel of Time sequence and individual books out and making the whole thing longer than necessary...

GRRM will never finish these books. The only way this series will get finished is after he dies. Probably by Brandon Sanderson.

by Anonymousreply 13October 19, 2020 2:20 AM

I don't think I'll ever go back to watch and entire episode and certainly not an series re-watch, but I do go back to watch earlier seasons, specifically season one because there were things that went over my head due to trying to keep all the characters straight.

by Anonymousreply 14October 19, 2020 2:22 AM

R10, part of the issue with the last season is the way they rushed to tie up each story line! It was so stupid! It was weird it didn’t hit me how messed up it was until a while after. At first I thought it was just not that good but then later I was pissed. Delayed reaction

by Anonymousreply 15October 19, 2020 2:23 AM

Sorry, but I don't watch "rape as entertainment". If anything deserved to be "cancelled" it was this piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 16October 19, 2020 2:24 AM

R15 Precisely!

by Anonymousreply 17October 19, 2020 2:25 AM

Serialized shows are difficult for me to sit through a rewatch. It’s such a time investment.

by Anonymousreply 18October 19, 2020 2:27 AM

Read the book.

by Anonymousreply 19October 19, 2020 2:31 AM

R3, they know on Mars that the ending was disappointing.

by Anonymousreply 20October 19, 2020 2:55 AM

I've rewatched the series at least 3 times since it finished. I think the final season will be viewed differently in a decade's time. Its not as horrible as everybody goes on about. There are moments of tremendous power even in the final few hours.

by Anonymousreply 21October 19, 2020 2:55 AM

Please don't say R21 you thought the scene below was "mindblowing!"

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by Anonymousreply 22October 19, 2020 3:02 AM

No, that was a bit obvious, but the Winterfell battle had some stunning imagery, and in the finale I kind of dug the Apocalypse Now scene between Daenerys and Jon. I also really liked Varys's death scene. The Bells is amazing. And of course Ramin's music just kept getting better and better. The score for the final season was sublime.

But I still love the sixth season and adore all of the battle episodes. I never get tired of watching Blackwater or Battle of the Bastards. Hell, I rewatched Hardhome just the other week. Good stuff, that one.

by Anonymousreply 23October 19, 2020 3:18 AM

Yep r8.

Seasons 1-4 were good (and closest to the books).

Seasons 5-6 had moments of greatness, but some major problems with the writing were already apparent.

The less said about Seasons 7-8 the better. Just a slap in the face to what the show/books were meant to be. Also everyone who was surprised at the final season was putting on blinders during 7 because it the writing was just as dumb.

by Anonymousreply 24October 19, 2020 3:24 AM

No R21. Just...no. 97% of the time I am a live and let live, no accountin' for taste, different strokes kind of person. But anyone who thinks Season 8 of GoT wasn't that bad and "had some powerful scenes" is straight-up fucking advertising their own philistinism.

It wasn't just bad it was aggressively, almost purposefully terrible. Varys' death scene, FFS? You mean Varys, the super intelligent, subtle schemer who just openly starts randomly treasoning all over the show for no apparent reason because Benioff and Weiss needed to kill him to crappily foreshadow Daenerys going full whackjob?

Lord preserve me I can't.

by Anonymousreply 25October 19, 2020 3:31 AM

R4 I almost didn't watch it. Definitely not my thing, either (R2 here). But the early seasons are wildly entertaining and it is a few notches above your usual swords/dragons/agic BS (not saying much i admit but it is). Super high quality popcorn fare, well written and acted (again, the first 4-5 seasons) etc.

by Anonymousreply 26October 19, 2020 3:33 AM

I wish they showed more dick in it. Just a fat juicy hog of a cock in every episode ya know.

The tits were everywhere so I think it's fair.

by Anonymousreply 27October 19, 2020 3:37 AM

wont even watch the prequel....ending few episodes horrible !

by Anonymousreply 28October 19, 2020 3:43 AM

I already have. I'm one of the few who was fine with the ending

by Anonymousreply 29October 19, 2020 4:01 AM

Who is the poster using Varys’ death plot as an example of what was great about the last season? If you thought that was great I would love to know what you thought was bad.

by Anonymousreply 30October 19, 2020 4:22 AM

R25, I don't need your approval on my taste but thanks anyway. I wasn't commenting on the writing behind Varys's reason to be there getting executed in the first place, I just liked the way it was shot.

GoT was never the greatest show ever. Never. So people talk about a dip in quality like it was some chasm. It wasn't. The show was always what it was, it just got a bit too fast for its own good. I'm hardly a philistine, my favorite shows tend to be top tier television, although I'm more of a film buff. But whatever, you saw it once and I guess I'm supposed to bow to you and public opinion, as if I give a shit what most of the masses think right now. As SM has shown us, most of them are morons.

Here's another shocker - the books aren't that great.

Btw, this was my favorite shot of S8. It perfectly encapsulates my feelings towards 2020.

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by Anonymousreply 31October 19, 2020 4:23 AM

I am gonna give spoilers, so read on with caution. I am also gonna butcher the spelling of these wretched names.

Like others previously mentioned, the demise of certain characters was frustrating. The one that stood out to me the most was Ciersi. She was a favorite of mine and her ending was just excruciating; totally inappropriate for such a powerful character. Varys' demise was also so incredibly vexing. I totally agree with the poster above that him, all of a sudden, becoming totally stupid and falling into some ridiculous trap was completely out of line with his character. And I ultimately believe that the story's overarching arc demanded that he make it out alive. While I agree with Danerys' ending generally (unlike most people, I never thought she'd come out on top and always suspected she'd go nuts), the way it was done was kinda lame. I will say, I loved, LOVED how she trashed the city. It just felt right with her. But ending her the way they did seemed weak.

by Anonymousreply 32October 19, 2020 4:55 AM

No, never. Unless they re-do the last season. The atrocious ending (starting with ep. 3 of season 8) ruined the entire series for me.

by Anonymousreply 33October 19, 2020 5:08 AM

[quote]r31 GoT was never the greatest show ever.

It was for a very long time. But they fucked it up. By going woke.

by Anonymousreply 34October 19, 2020 5:10 AM

I haven’t seen it past the first few episodes. I tried to get into it but couldn’t hold my interest. I usually like fantasy/sci-fi movies. Maybe I didn’t give it enough time.

by Anonymousreply 35October 19, 2020 6:05 AM

Yes, because I enjoyed the majority of the show, the issues with pacing towards the end weren't the worst thing in the world, and I'm not hysterical like most on this thread.

by Anonymousreply 36October 19, 2020 6:09 AM

I genuinely don't understand people who 1. watched all of GoT and 2. don't think the ending sucked.

Like do you just like watching dragons and boobs on a screen or something? Do you simply not follow the story or the character arcs? By the last season we had the same actors playing characters with the same names but entirely different character traits to the early seasons.

Jamie, for example. His character arc for the WHOLE SERIES was redemptive, and very well done early on, very 3D, nicely written and acted. Last few episodes and he suddenly decides that actually, no, he loves the evil lady the show itself spent episode after episode carefully leading us towards his final rejection of? With whatever that line was about "I am who I am" or whatever it was? jeeeeeesus christ that was bad. And Brienne (!) weeping like some nerdy girl dumped by the high school jock - also so out of character I still sometimes think I hallucinated that scene lol

by Anonymousreply 37October 19, 2020 6:16 AM

Hard "No," OP. Could barely watch the series once. One massive excuse for the screenwriters' being naughty boys.

by Anonymousreply 38October 19, 2020 6:19 AM

"my favorite shows tend to be top tier television"

Gurl these are the house words of the philistine.

You're right the books weren't very good, although I only read halfway through the first one.

And I never said I wasn't a philistine. Just that you most definitely are.

by Anonymousreply 39October 19, 2020 6:19 AM

The pacing and direction were poor as the showrunners clearly struggle to write without the guidance of the books, but there was nothing wrong with the ending.

Did you actually want Dany to win and did you think she ever would? Did you not watch the show and see how she was a great general and a poor leader and how her whole storyline was a critique of foreign powers who swoop in to give second-and-third-world nations "freedom"?

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by Anonymousreply 40October 19, 2020 6:21 AM

I have re-watched the series once but I stopped 15 minutes into season eight episode four (The last of the Starks)

I have started my third time through the series but now I only watch one episode a month.

by Anonymousreply 41October 19, 2020 6:39 AM

Game of Thrones is the most successful show in the history of HBO, rising from humble beginnings in 2011 to become the biggest TV drama on the planet. In 2019 the show wrapped after eight seasons and 73 episodes to deliver one of the most negatively-received final seasons in recent memory. Journalist James Hibberd, who was allowed on set of the show every year from the second season onwards, has written a behind-the-scenes account of the commissioning, writing and making of the show, referring to hundreds of interviews he undertook whilst the show was on air and more undertaken since. Among the people he's spoken to are George R.R. Martin, David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, and vast numbers of the cast, from the smallest bit-part player to leading actors Kit Harington, Peter Dinklage and Emilia Clarke. This is the oft-contentious story of the making of the show that changed television.

TV companion books are a bit of a dying art these days, with the Internet and its plethora of fan blogs and wikis making them feel a bit redundant. Game of Thrones is so huge - and controversial - that it can overcome that problem and James Hibberd is well-placed to write such a companion volume given his access to the writers, the sets and the actors (via his work at Entertainment Weekly covering the show). He starts at the beginning, with George R.R. Martin starting writing the Song of Ice and Fire novel series in 1991, and proceeds through David Benioff and Dan Weiss picking up the books, wooing Martin to letting them and HBO have the rights, and their difficult struggle to get a pilot made, and the difficult process of admitting that they'd messed up the pilot and had to hope that HBO would give them a second chance. From there things proceed roughly chronologically until the end of the show.

The first thing that has to be noted is that this is not an "unauthorised" guide to the making of the show, but a HBO-approved product (complete with HBO-provided photographs). If you're expecting to find dirt and gossip, you're not going to find it here. Anything majorly contentious has been finely exercised from the text. Hibberd also doesn't add much in the way of authorial opinion, letting events stand for themselves and quoting other critics in determining if a plot twist or story turn was successful or not.

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by Anonymousreply 42October 19, 2020 6:50 AM

GoT was legitimately great through its first four seasons. The first cracks appeared in S5, not coincidentally when Benioff & Weiss started running out of source material to adapt; the “Hardhome” episode that season set a benchmark for high-end spectacle television. Unfortunately, S5 also featured an episode where Jaime & Bronn fight the Sand Snakes, which remains one of the most ludicrously inept sequences ever filmed. I remember thinking as I watched it, “Many people saw this footage during editing & post, and thought it was acceptable”. That was the moment the Titanic hit the iceberg; seasons 6-8 were just one bulkhead after another failing as the ship took on more water. I’ll never rewatch the whole series again, but there are select episodes that stand on their own; the “Blackwater” episode of S2 is one of the best episodes of television I’ve ever seen, so I may give that one another viewing at some point. Otherwise, GoT’s colossally bad final seasons puts it in “LOST” territory for me: another show that ultimately couldn’t deliver on its ambitious and compelling set-up.

by Anonymousreply 43October 19, 2020 7:17 AM

Yeah. Why not? It’s still fun for a binge watch if there is absolutely nothing else on TV, or if I’m stuck at home working. It’s an okay way to help pass the time. I didn’t care for the last four seasons, but the production quality is worth a second or third viewing.

by Anonymousreply 44October 19, 2020 7:28 AM

R43 actually the Sand Snake Fight is addressed in the book. One of the issues is they wanted to film it at night, but the Spanish palace wouldn't give permission and the stunt team wasn't available during the day so they had to use the actual actors.

I genuinely think Season 6 counts as one of the great seasons.

by Anonymousreply 45October 19, 2020 7:31 AM

Will we ever get another book? Tick tock, GRRM

by Anonymousreply 46October 19, 2020 7:39 AM

It was mildly entertaining fantasy soap opera with some attractive design elements but...

Great art it ain't and it's not going to age well. The first season or two had pretty low budgets and those episodes look cheesy as fuck now. But, the early seasons had the best storylines.

The later seasons look better but the plotting and dialogue weren't good.

Acting wise, you had all these terrific seasoned British actors in supporting roles trying to keep a straight face saying those ridiculous lines while the younger cast at the center of the show were all pretty awful.

Though they weren't young, I'd throw Dinklage and Lena Headey and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau into the "awful" category as well. The Emmys should be embarrassed for giving Dinklage all those Emmys...for what? Looking pained and soulful for 7 years?

by Anonymousreply 47October 19, 2020 8:38 AM

GRRM will rewrite Gone with the Wind before he finishes The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring

by Anonymousreply 48October 19, 2020 8:40 AM

R43 I like your comparison to Lost; it's very apt. Both shows were conceived on great ideas and premises and had terrific individual episodes and moments but ultimately failed.

And, largely because the showrunners had no grasp on how to pace the storytelling AND, most of all, how to wrap it all up.

by Anonymousreply 49October 19, 2020 8:41 AM

R48 GRRM IS a big bag of wind.

His only talent is for ripping off Robert Graves' I, Claudius, Tolkien, Shakespeare and what he could glean from the "European History: 1000 to 1500" class he took while in college.

by Anonymousreply 50October 19, 2020 8:47 AM

I agree with R47 & R50. The concepts behind 'Game of Thrones' may have been good, but the dialogue was poor and unmemorable.

I, Claudius has much more memorable dialogue, and almost every line is quotable.

by Anonymousreply 51October 19, 2020 8:54 AM

No. When I'm done with these things, I'm done with them. In the case of GoT, that's not commentary on the way it ended (which I found inevitable, by the way; nothing wrong with it). For me, GoT exhibited a lot of low-level aggravation spread evenly throughout the series in the form of small, frequent mediocrities of story, performances, and the way it was depicted. TBH, I don't think the source material is very good, certainly not worth the effort it takes to read all of it, or as much as currently exists; it's too much, and has taken too long to produce (on GRRM's part, it's probably the longest, most constipated shit ever). It was a temporary, eight-year diversion in terms of entertainment, and I'm finished with it.

I'm the same way about any number of past series - Rome, Carnivàle, Queer As Folk, Six Feet Under, True Blood, Dexter, etc.. I cannot generate sufficient interest to ever watch them again.

by Anonymousreply 52October 19, 2020 8:55 AM

R51 Yup.

Olenna Tyrell = Livia

Tyrion = Claudius

Joffrey = Caligula

Cersei = Messalina AND Agrippina

by Anonymousreply 53October 19, 2020 9:11 AM

[quote] Here's another shocker - the books aren't that great.

They are practically just a long violent soap opera. I listened to the first two novels as audiobooks and I so very much tried to like them, especially because so many people raved about them, but it was clear the author got sadistic pleasure out of making all the characters suffer. I got them through an Audible subscription and since I only could download two books a month I didn't want to give up until at one point I Just realized what's the point of torturing myself.

Then people started raving about the tv show as well. I watched an episode or two on the first few seasons and was like meh. Then around season 4 or 5 I decided to take a look again and I noticed I enjoyed the storytelling and all the grandness. I also enjoyed being part of the zeitgeist and always watched the episodes right when they aired. I still think the episode with a big battle on season 7 (episode 4, Spoils of War), is one of the most intense tv episodes I've seen.

The final season was obviously a great big fuck you to all the viewers. I'm sort of glad the showrunners ended up losing their Star Wars trilogy gig after the terrible last season. They obviously said it was because their $200M Netfix takes all their time but I suspect the real reason was quite possibly how they lost practically all goodwill they'd gathered by butchering the show, and Disney didn't want them near Star Wars any more. I mean how lost do you have to be to destroy a show the way they did?

by Anonymousreply 54October 19, 2020 9:28 AM

R16 The rape bothered you but not the killing?!

On that topic, I never understood why people were so shocked and upset that Sansa Stark was raped. They made it pretty clear how brutal the world and especially, how savage Ramsay Bolton was. Is it really that surprising that the guy who cut off Theon Greyjoy’s dick for fun might also enjoy rough sex and/or rape if his partner wasn’t into it? We’re even shown that side of him with the Myranda character, only she’s into it. Not likely virginal high born Sansa Stark would be, and as Ramsay was a violent asshole, of course he would rape her. He did even worse to his wife (Sansa’s friend, Jeyne) in the book.

I wasn’t crazy about them deviating from the books to have R and S get married but unlike other book purists, I can’t see having them keep Sansa safe in the Vale all season until she somehow meets up with Jon Snow as being riveting television. Plus, in the book, while she’s safe in the Vale, there is drama about Peter Baelish slowing killing Robert Arryn. In the show, Robert is much older, more likeable and not feeble, and the poisoning wouldn’t have made any sense. Sansa is older on the show and wouldn’t have gone along with it. In short, the R-S marriage was way to move the story and give the actor playing Sansa dramatic scenes to play.

by Anonymousreply 55October 19, 2020 10:46 AM

Too violent for me personally and too many damn characters to keep track of and how they are related and too many guys that look alike. Shaggy hair and beards.

by Anonymousreply 56October 19, 2020 12:23 PM

SPOILERS!

No - Many episodes were too much to take and I would have to skip them next time around (Shireen’s death, Red Wedding, Oberyn’s death, Sansa/Dany’s rapes, Ned Stark’s death, dragons/dire wolves deaths - to name a few). However, I could watch Hard Home, Battle of Bastards and the final scene of The Dragon and the Wolf in a loop - those episodes never get old! Also, any episode where Drogon attacks - the special effects are awesome!

by Anonymousreply 57October 19, 2020 1:48 PM

I've never seen it

by Anonymousreply 58October 19, 2020 1:49 PM

I never watched it the first time.

by Anonymousreply 59October 19, 2020 1:54 PM

It is better to read the books after the series. Otherwise, you watch the show with certain expectations and disappointed when it deviates. Where as the book on the backend, adds more to what was seen on screen.

Why are never-watchers on this thread? Obviously, it is for people who watched it already. Sigh

by Anonymousreply 60October 19, 2020 1:56 PM

Of course people have a problem with it r55.

It doesn't happen in the books, so inventing a ludicrous plotline where Littlefinger would give away Sansa to Ramsay Bolton (even GRRM has spoken out that Littlefinger would never do that) just so Sansa could get brutalized and raped just sat with people the wrong way.

by Anonymousreply 61October 19, 2020 1:58 PM

I doubt it. In memory it seems really really long and heavy.

by Anonymousreply 62October 19, 2020 2:00 PM

R29 - I was fine with the ending also! As long as Drogon lived, I was happy. Also, the whole why didn’t Drogon kill Jon debate...It is because, instinctually, Drogon knows he is Targaryen. Yes, plot armor, but whatever. Wasn’t a big deal to me.

by Anonymousreply 63October 19, 2020 2:00 PM

I fell for the hype in the fourth season and started from the beginning to catch up. I also picked up the books simultaneously.

Although I was entertained by the show's atmospheric violence, I noted the difference between the book's more mystical emphasis and the douche-bro version it became that totally negated that vision. I won't waste any more time on either the books or the show.

It's over, GRRM allowed other, less visionary figures to finish his epic and anything he writes further will be seen in contrast. Most artists would never allow that to happen to their work, but it's clear he is a man of our times.

by Anonymousreply 64October 19, 2020 2:03 PM

R61 in the books, Baelish is about to “give her away” to a character who doesn’t appear in the show, Harold Hardyng. He could potentially rape her, as that was how things were in that world. We know that GRRM has said none of his POV characters will ever be raped and we also know that some characters (Sansa, Arya, Sam, for example) have ridiculous plot armor.

I’m assuming that Jon and Sansa are supposed to meeting and fight for Winterfell in the books, and as the Bolton’s hold it, this was a way for Sansa to get inside info which helps Jon.

Women get raped in this world and realistically, Sansa would not be an exception. In the books, horrible rapes are inflicted upon minor characters: Pia the whore, the innkeeper’s daughter by Gregor Clegane, Lollis Stokeworth. GRRM allows his primary male characters to ensure horrific violence: Jon’s stabbing, Ned’s beheading, Oberyn’s death, Tyrion losing a nose, Theon losing a dick.

Baelish’s motive as far as I can tell is to manipulate Sansa into letting him help her rule. He wants her to have a husband she can master and will listen to her, and she will then take Baelish’s advice. That appears to be his goal, ruling by proxy. Although we know what Ramsay is, per the show runners, Baelish did not.

I don’t think it’s one of their best writing moments, but I find it strange that people can value Tyrion without a nose, but raped Sansa has been devalued because she’s no longer a pure, rich virgin. As an audience, can’t we continue to cheer for Sansa even after she’s been DEFILED?

Then again, considering the demographic of the fans, it’s not really surprising.

by Anonymousreply 65October 19, 2020 2:15 PM

That should be, “the Boltons hold it.”

by Anonymousreply 66October 19, 2020 2:15 PM

" The one that stood out to me the most was Ciersi." Agree 100 percent. Her ending was atrocious and she did nothing in the final season (probably because the showrunners stupidly cut out the miscarriage scene, which was filmed, as confirmed by Lena Headey, for the end of Season 7. That was supposed to vault Cersei into madness. But Doofus and Doofus decided at the last minute that Dany was going to be mad while Cersei was just going to be a coward who needed to be rescued). Cersei should have been sitting on the Iron Throne during Dany's destruction of the city, with a glass of wine in one hand and a crossbow in another, saying, "Come and get me, bitch."

by Anonymousreply 67October 19, 2020 2:57 PM

As overly dramatic 'oh Mary' it sounds, I don't think I would ever watch it again because I was so disappointed with how it ended. It just really left a bad taste that such an iconic series ended on such a terrible final season.

by Anonymousreply 68October 19, 2020 3:00 PM

I don’t remember Daenerys being raped. Who raped her?

by Anonymousreply 69October 19, 2020 3:04 PM

[quote]I don’t remember Daenerys being raped. Who raped her?

Khal Drogo.

by Anonymousreply 70October 19, 2020 3:08 PM

At the risk of sounding like Whoopi Goldberg I didn’t think that was rape.

I thought the whole reason Drogo kept repeating the word “no“ was to let Daenerys know that he understood the meaning of the word and would stop if she said “no”

by Anonymousreply 71October 19, 2020 3:17 PM

It ends with Jaime riding off to join the North. The rest is up to your imagination. The end.

by Anonymousreply 72October 19, 2020 3:41 PM

R71 in the book, it wasn’t exactly rape, she was suddenly into it after Drogo started sticking her fingers up her. It wasn’t very believable. Then she learns from one of her servants how to convince him to fuck missionary style after she’s tired of doggy style. Their whole relationship is one of the weakest aspects of the first book.

by Anonymousreply 73October 19, 2020 3:50 PM

From up above: 'Jamie, for example. His character arc for the WHOLE SERIES was redemptive, and very well done early on'

Nope, Jaime (not Jamie sic) did not have a character arc. Not all characters have character arcs. Davos for instance. Jaime was a deconstructed white knight with a tragic flaw, namely his relationship to Cersie. Every mistake he makes is due to his obsession with Cersie. From start to finish. And Brienne wasn't ruined because she cried, once. That's just overstatement.

Really Stem education and recent tv and film writing techniques have left a certain segment of the public at a loss for viewing this type of writing. Everything now is suppose to follow a formula, but this one left the little Spocks screaming, "This does not compute! This is not logical!"

Nope GRRM had something else in mind. And if you thought some folks in the end were going to get crowned like Aragorn or get medals like Luke and Han and that this wasn't going to have a bittersweet ending, well then, you hadn't been paying attention. It was always going to break your heart

by Anonymousreply 74October 19, 2020 3:55 PM

I've sat through it a couple of times, but selectively watching it. Season 1, especially that first episode looks so cheaply made, now compared to the seasons that followed when they finally got a decent budget. In fact you can actually tell which locations got stinted on budget.....And Cersei's wigs!!!! OMG!! Just laughably bad. Who'd ever take her seriously!

I decided to start watching from Season 6. I stop watching it before the final scene. Since some people are saying they haven't watched it at all, but plan to, I'll just say, I end it when the dragon flies away.

I do like historical dramas, altho not a fan of fantasy or supernatural stuff. One thing I have noticed, is that after watching the Tudors on Netflix, and the White Queen (which is really all about the War of the Roses) I can definitely see elements of the Roses epic in Game of Thrones. And with all its flaws it was really pretty fascinating to watch.

One thing I personally appreciated was the many new actors I discovered. Aside from the fact Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner were wonderful in their parts, I was impressed with Alfie Allen, Kit Harington, Emilia Clarke, Richard Madden, Jacob Anderson, Gwendoline Christie. and certainly Rory McCann. Aidan Gillen and Conleth Hill were outstanding, and Rory McCann is a real breakout star. His Hound was brilliant.

Richard Dormer and Charles Dance, Lena Heady and Nicolaj Coster Waldau weren't unknown to me and certainly Peter Dinklage wasn't but they really did a stellar job, as did Ciaran Hinds. My point is the actors, IMO, for me personally, made it compelling and interesting because they were so good. And the way the characters were developed, I think, had a lot to do with the skill of those actors.

Not leaving out Anton Lesser or Jerome Flynn. Or I think I've watched the scene of Olenna Tyrell and Jaime, her death scene hundreds of times. It was exquisite. Natalie Dormer, Dean Charles Chapman, Jack Gleeson, all excellent, and of course Pedro Pascal. OMG. Props to the deliciously evil Iwan Rheon as Ramsey Bolton, and Daniel Portman's Podrick. Liam Cunningham's Davos, Melisandre's Carice Van Houten.Stephen Dillane's Stannis. So many uniformly excellent actors and memorable scenes.

You absolutely can't fault them with the casting. Nathalie Emanuel, Indira Varma, Alexander Siddiq, etc. Pretty amazing. John Bradley. James Broadbent. It was clever of them to inter weave the established actors with the unknowns to great effect. Think about Maisie Williams and Charles Dance in their pas de deux. There's still a lot to like about Game of Thrones. It didn't end the way I wanted it to. I think it would have benefited from a few more episodes instead of rushing to the end. But I have watched it for different reasons. Maybe twice since it ended. I think I may probably do that once a year. Until something else comes along to capture my interest, or I get tired of it. It really was a pretty amazing experience in its totality.

by Anonymousreply 75October 19, 2020 3:57 PM

The early show made a point of showing characters on long journeys. The addition of a hidden Star Trek transporter in the final seasons really irked me.

by Anonymousreply 76October 19, 2020 4:02 PM

R74 There was a lot more to Jaime than just Cersei. First, he lost his mother when he was young, and was raised by an ambitious, unforgiving father who did not express love for his children. Then, after being knighted as a teenager and then going into the Kingsguard, he made a decision that resulted in a sharp shift of how of he was viewed and how he viewed the world. His king was asking for Tywin’s head and also planning to burn all of KL. Jaime murdered him and thereafter was looked upon with contempt as the bodyguard who killed the person he was charged to protect, an old man. From the open derision of Ned Stark to the “Kingslayer” nickname he was saddled with, Jaime’s outlook became understandably cynical. Also, he came from a rich, powerful, arrogant family.

He does indeed have an arc in the books. He loses his sword hand (his worth, in his eyes), and has dreams which indicate inner turmoil. He rescues Brienne from the bear. At the end of the books so far, instead of answering Cersei’s summons to return to KL and rescue her from the sparrows, he tosses her letter in the fire and has no intention of returning. He also knows, having been told by Tyrion, that Cersei has affairs with their cousin, Lancel and one of the Kettleblack knights.

His resolution of the Riverrun standoff in the books is far more nuanced and intelligent.

by Anonymousreply 77October 19, 2020 4:08 PM

The casting certainly was extraordinary!

by Anonymousreply 78October 19, 2020 4:09 PM

No, I couldn't just because of the travesty that were seasons 6 - 8. Such TERRIBLE fan-fic. The Sept was the only shining moment but the lack of consequences for murdering the Queen and the Lord Paramount of the Reach was just retarded (as well as Cersei/Jaime escaping certain death by the combined forces of Danaerys with Dragons, Dorne, the Greyjoy siblings, and the Reach).

But my god the first 4 were fantastic (5 was the beginning of the end with few highlights).

I definitely will listen to the soundtracks over and over, though.

by Anonymousreply 79October 19, 2020 4:14 PM

R74 Davos also has an arc and character growth. He starts out as a smuggler raised a lord by Stannis Baratheon, who eventually names him Hand. He struggles with Stannis’ acceptance of Melisandre who causes the death of Maester Cressen. Queen Selyse’s men refer to Davos as a monkey and he doubts his own abilities when asked by Stannis to represent him to get Wyman Manderly on board, though in fact his honesty and loyalty are very persuasive.

The scene with Manderly in the Merman’s Court is one of the best, as is the scene where Davos is brought before Borrill. Davos learns to use his smuggler’s skills to spy out the land for Stannis and is actually very effective as a Hand. I think we’ll see some more great scenes with him IF the next book ever comes out...

by Anonymousreply 80October 19, 2020 4:14 PM

Also, like someone up-thread said, the "teleporter" world just made everything smaller and smaller. In the later seasons, Essos was seen as an integral part and knowledge to the Westerosis when it really should have maintained as more exotic and esoteric. Few people would have known about or been to Braavos, Pentos, and much less known about the Ghiscari empire (where Danerys was).

It also got so lazy with what should have been insurmountable obstacles being handwaved away with "killed the head."

- Dothraki? Danerys burns the Khals and is now the unquestioned leader.

- The Reach/Tyrells? Explode them and handwave away the sack of Highgarden.

- Dorne? I guess the Whore of Oberyn and bastards now rule (lol) and they were captured so they don't matter anymore.

- Faith militant? 100% gone in the Sept, even though they were prevalent among the population of KL and the smallfolk who hated the Lannisters.

Meanwhile the Lannisters had ridiculous plot armor and endless forces. Everyone was knowledgeable about the "Lord of Light" when it was supposed to be this fringe, esoteric religion. Bah. Whatever.

by Anonymousreply 81October 19, 2020 4:28 PM

[quote]You absolutely can't fault them with the casting.

Not at all. Nina Gold and Co. did an incredible job of pairing actors with these characters. It made me fans of actors who I cared little about or didn't know of like Tobias Menzies and Clive Russell as Edmure and Blackfish Tully, Joseph Mawle who played Benjen, and Stephen Dillane.

by Anonymousreply 82October 19, 2020 8:23 PM

Stephen Dillane was so hot.

by Anonymousreply 83October 20, 2020 1:47 AM

Agreed R83, I fancied the fuck out of Stanny B.

Also, R74: u wrong.

by Anonymousreply 84October 20, 2020 1:53 AM

R84 he can fuck me on the map table anytime.

by Anonymousreply 85October 20, 2020 1:59 AM

The failure was in the huge build up to the Night King -years and years- only to have it end with Arya flying in like the fucking Karate kid. It was ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 86October 20, 2020 2:06 AM

R85 And he can be stern and dismissive towards me at anytime.

by Anonymousreply 87October 20, 2020 2:08 AM

Fun fact about Dillon: His son played the 16yo Tom Riddle (Voldemort) in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince

by Anonymousreply 88October 20, 2020 2:09 AM

R87 I loved how he never wore a crown or fancy clothes. His worn military clothes were so hot.

by Anonymousreply 89October 20, 2020 2:09 AM

Correction: Dillane*

by Anonymousreply 90October 20, 2020 2:09 AM

Yeah R88 but they shoulda brought back Christian Coulson as Tom Riddle.

by Anonymousreply 91October 20, 2020 2:11 AM

Don't forget Roz, the whore! I really liked her. Felt so terrible when she died...

by Anonymousreply 92October 20, 2020 2:15 AM

Daenerys should have become the Night Queen.

by Anonymousreply 93October 20, 2020 5:05 AM

F350 How did the show become "woke?" It sounds like you just learned that term and desperately wanted to use it, even where it makes no sense.

by Anonymousreply 94October 20, 2020 5:38 AM

R94, R34 is using the term "woke" in the way the alt-right uses it, as an expression of contempt. He means that the show developed strong female characters and began expressing a value system consistent with their viewpoint. The alt-right are always threatened by that, since it challenges their fragile sense of masculinity.

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by Anonymousreply 95October 20, 2020 1:55 PM

Two, ugly, white, smug, right-wing douchebags. Never ever see that ^

by Anonymousreply 96October 20, 2020 4:11 PM

R79 Well said!

by Anonymousreply 97October 21, 2020 9:34 PM

i done so. And its surprisingly rewatchable. The earlier seasons and some standout iconic episodes which stick closer to the original material still outweigh the most of dreadful last two seasons. The Door, The Battle of Bastards, The Red Wedding, The Purple Wedding, The Long Night, The Spoils of War are still amazing and ground breaking TV.

by Anonymousreply 98October 21, 2020 9:42 PM

[quote] "my favorite shows tend to be top tier television"

{quote]Gurl these are the house words of the philistine.

Gurl, fuck off. I have never watched a single Avengers movie, nor 1 minute of that fraubait, This Is Us, lol.

by Anonymousreply 99October 22, 2020 12:20 AM

Whew, never watched an Avengers movie or This Is Us? Well shit, if you didn't like the last few seasons of GoT, I'd stand corrected!

by Anonymousreply 100October 23, 2020 5:54 AM

I am a philistine. For me the earliest disappointment was not seeing Stannis Baratheon's death. I don't know why they'd shoot The Red Wedding and Oberyn's death but Stannis gets a cut away. Maybe the actor was shy about gore but they should have done something. Especially since swearing revenge was apart of Brienne's arc.

They repeated the mistake with Arya killing The Waif. They could have been very creative how they filmed in the dark but they didn't even try. The video I linked below is animated but it shows you can do alot with dark and shadows if you put your mind to it.

As for your question, OP. I would say no, not right now but may be in a few years. I think of the final season like The Last Jedi. The disappointment is mostly felt when you think of how many years you've waited for this moment only to be wasted. I do think both are poorly written because the characters and decisions don't make sense the more you think about it.

I was one of those naive people that thought Daenerys would sit on the Iron Throne- or atleast Jon Snow. I liked what someone else said which is Dany flies to The Red Keep to kill Cersei directly but she doesn't know about the wildfire underneath the city so she mistakenly blows everything up. Thus she conquers the kingdom but earns the name Mad Queen and everyone hates her.

I did like that Arya got revenge on the Freys. That Sansa said she would erase the Boltons from history. Yara re-united with Theon, it was heartbreaking when he rejected running away with her during the rescue attempt. That maester guy getting his head bashed in by The Mountain. Brienne becoming a knight. The Hound's warning to Arya not to let anger and hatred rule her.

O and by the way, the reason Sansa's rape was controversial was because there was discussion at the time about how women getting raped/sexually assualted was used as character development. Something that the writers added gas to by having Sansa say she's glad all those things happened to her because it made her stronger.

P.S. Muriel and Administrators please fix the grey box issue, thanks.

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by Anonymousreply 101October 23, 2020 7:12 AM

R45 — Yes, exactly. Rather than looking like characters who are extremely proficient in hand to hand combat, they instead looked like a bunch of actors pretending to have a swordfight. It was terribly conceived, choreographed, and edited. Good thoughtful editing could have hidden many of that scene’s flaws. The fact that Benioff & Weiss allowed that shit to stand as the final cut broadcast version speaks volumes about their lack of imagination and quality control. The increasingly shitty final three seasons confirm that. Netflix will regret shoveling all that $$$ at those clowns.

by Anonymousreply 102October 23, 2020 7:24 AM

Now that I've seen the whole thing twice, when I do get the urge to watch it I go for episodes. Because there a re some brilliant episodes in each season worth repeated watching.

by Anonymousreply 103October 23, 2020 5:07 PM

I'd rewatch those episodes with the hot young twink who works in Littlefinger's brothel. That dude was so steamy I could have cooked popcorn in my underwear.

by Anonymousreply 104October 23, 2020 5:46 PM

R104, that was Will Tudor.

Here's one of his full frontals:

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by Anonymousreply 105October 23, 2020 6:55 PM

What was strange was how the ending seemed to negate everything that came before it. It was like undertaking an arduous journey over the course of a decade, only to end up at Costco.

by Anonymousreply 106October 23, 2020 7:08 PM

[quote]I'd rewatch those episodes with the hot young twink who works in Littlefinger's brothel. That dude was so steamy I could have cooked popcorn in my underwear.

Yeah, the Olyvar and Loras scenes are a must re-watch. Also the Loras and Renly scenes.

Finn Jones was a bit of a fuddy-duddy about the Loras/Olyvar hook up because he feels it looks like Loras didn't love Renly because he rebounded so quickly. I guess Finn felt Loras should have been wearing widow weeds.

by Anonymousreply 107October 23, 2020 7:16 PM

I may be able to at some point, but just knowing how Cersei dies makes it unwatchable. Had Danerys killed her in an awful way I could forgive everything else, but that was the last straw.

by Anonymousreply 108October 23, 2020 7:18 PM

I'll probably watch the first few seasons again. It has so many good actors, it's hard to resist.

by Anonymousreply 109October 23, 2020 7:20 PM

[quote] I haven't seen the the end yet so SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SELFISH PIGS!

Bran is made the king of Westeros, but the North breaks off and his sister Sansa is made queen of the North. The White Walkers are destroyed by Arya, who goes off to have adventures at sea. Dany goes corrupt with power and kills thousands of people in Kings Landing with her dragon, so Jon Snow kills her; for his trouble, he is forced to join the Night Watch.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone screaming in all-caps about no spoilers [bold]several years[/bold] after a TV season has aired.

by Anonymousreply 110October 23, 2020 7:22 PM

Pedro Pascal slaps Will Tudor's ass:

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by Anonymousreply 111October 23, 2020 7:22 PM

No. It’s so sad that it’s kind of funny. Game of Thrones seems almost tailor made for pandemic lockdown viewing...except it crashed and burned so hard in the end that I’d dread taking that journey again.

I think of that terrible all-black episode that ended the Night King to no avail. Why was he the arch villain to be defeated so easily? All those years of winter coming for one jab to put it out? Weird. And dumb.

And THEN it got bad.

I can’t do it again.

by Anonymousreply 112October 23, 2020 7:25 PM

Agreed. Cersei and Lena deserved better.

She comes by her bitterness and spite honestly, which is precisely what made the character so vital and such a fantastic story engine. So much of that power came from Headey herself, who rightly earned four supporting actress Emmy nominations for her portrayal of the most vindictive Lannister. In the hands of a less gifted actress, Cersei becomes a parody of herself, mindlessly killing and being evil, just for evil’s sake.

And what did all that meticulous character development get her when the show’s final seven episodes rolled around? A whopping 23 minutes of screen time and change. (Yes, we counted.)

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by Anonymousreply 113October 23, 2020 7:25 PM

I had my issues with it, but it's not even HBO's worst ending. Torture would be rewatching the last season of True Blood again.

by Anonymousreply 114October 23, 2020 7:27 PM

Will Tudor in bed with Pedro Pascal:

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by Anonymousreply 115October 23, 2020 7:29 PM

Will Tudor & Finn Jones:

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by Anonymousreply 116October 23, 2020 7:30 PM

R116 They extinguished all the homos lickety split, didn’t they?

by Anonymousreply 117October 23, 2020 7:36 PM

r113 ESPECIALLY when according to the book AND the show we were waiting for the prophecy from the witch Maggie the Frog to come true. It was really to see which brother would kill her, Jamie or the midget.

by Anonymousreply 118October 23, 2020 9:01 PM

R118 actually the brother part of the prophecy wasn't mentioned in the show, just that her kids would die before her

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by Anonymousreply 119October 23, 2020 9:06 PM

Joe Dempsie who played Gendry believes the theory that Cersei was his mother. I don't understand why people think that. What would be the purpose of telling Cersei her child was dead or Cersei possibly giving up a child of Robert's?

The actor, who played Gendry in the HBO show, commented on the possibility of his character’s mother, considering he was the bastard son of Robert Baratheon.

Reflecting on some loose ends left after the series ended last year, Dempsie told NME in a recent interview: “I still wanted to find out who Gendry’s mother was. I have a theory that it was actually Cersei and he was actually [her and Robert Baratheon’s] only biological child.

“In season one, when Ned Stark comes to visit him, he asks him about his parents and he said he never knew his father but his mother had yellow hair. I remember thinking, that’s too loaded a line not to mean anything.”

by Anonymousreply 120October 23, 2020 9:18 PM

I expected and hoped Cersei would become the Night Queen. It would seem fitting. She refused to join all the other kingdoms in battling the Night King, and she wanted to win at all costs and wanted nothing else other than to rule. I imagined she would betray Jamie and give over King’s Landing and then be transformed into the female counterpart and would either have a final battle of fire and ice or else end up winning the game because she was utterly ruthless. The only fkaw I could think of would he that her “ice queen” characterization would’ve been too on the nose.

But she had gone through such a physical transformation from a warm-hued blonde wife to a militarized queen with a man’s haircut and armor that turning to stonelike ice would just seem like a complete transformation. I felt the trajectory going there because she was just so steadily ruthless about her own kids’ deaths, her cold treatment of both brothers, blowing up the Sept and all the people in it, refusing to join forces with the others to survive.

My ending is better than her clutching onto Jamie and crying as stones fall on them.

Also, was anyone else really fucking annoyed when Tyrion found Cersei and Jamie under a mountain of stones...looking pretty and uncrushed? The Mountain crushed the Dornish guy’s skull and pushed in his eyeballs. The prettiness of Cersei and Jamie’s ending was really fucking off for this show. So thoughtful of the ceiling to fall carefully around their heads and leave Cersei with just a bloody nose!

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by Anonymousreply 121October 23, 2020 11:16 PM

R113, Cersei and Lena had some good scenes, but to me they pale in comparison to Sian Phillips' Livia from "I, Claudius":

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by Anonymousreply 122October 23, 2020 11:24 PM

She just wanted to be made a god.

by Anonymousreply 123October 24, 2020 1:32 AM

[quote] I stop watching it before the final scene. Since some people are saying they haven't watched it at all, but plan to, I'll just say, I end it when the dragon flies away.

Same here. I can't watch those final moments. I get too bitter. I never really expected anyone on the throne at the end, and I certainly didn't imagine it would be Daenerys, you could see her bad end coming a mile away, but I really hated how Jon saved everybody and got banished to the Wall again as his 'reward'. Back where he started, what kind of message is that. And don't tell me that's where he belonged. Fuck that. I always felt like he was a character who had some serious trauma he'd refused to deal with which impacted so many of his latter decisions. I think seeing a darker side to Jon would have made the show better after season six.

by Anonymousreply 124October 25, 2020 5:43 PM

It was way more than that for me R124.

The “humor” of introducing the idea that they might create a democracy and then laughing it off like it was suddenly a Monty Python skit? Awful. It was like the series hired all new writers.

Then the “funny” scenes in the meeting room? What the fuck were they thinking with that tone?

And hello, the entire series was about “winter is coming,” and that whole plotline just died with the Night King? One stab and it all magically fell apart, with Arya sailing off to new adventures?

But the writing was terrible long before then. It used to take a character an entire season to ride from the north to the south and by the penultimate season, they did it in 15 minutes. Jamie was almost roasted by a dragon but instead he sank in full heavy body armor and a gold hand to the bottom of a lake—to be revealed later that while we weren’t watching he swam several miles underwater to the shore?

The writing went from the best in television history to dreck.

by Anonymousreply 125October 25, 2020 7:31 PM

The first three episodes were the heart of the final season. The build up to the battle, the night before (Brienne being knighted) and then the battle. (All those distant torches winking out) and then the climax with Arya leaping onto the Night King. Boom, done. Clear up a couple messes, ie Jon Snow fighting off the ice dragon so Arya could get past them because that wasn’t obvious enough. Fix that tone deaf scene with Bron the previous night when he behaves totally out of character. And the biggest mess, Jaime sleeping with Brienne and leaving her the next morning, ugh so bad.

Unfortunately Cersei had become a complete bore by the end so the magically quick march south and then more jabber-jabber and then the ultimate battle for the city that managed to be the most badly choreographed one of the whole series. Lots of fans posted theories about how the last season would play out and a lot of them made more sense.

by Anonymousreply 126October 26, 2020 7:03 AM

No OP, I was planning to re watch the first seasons, because I wasn't paying much attention to the details back then, but the end really changed my mind and ruined the entire series for me. It's "Lost" all over again.

by Anonymousreply 127October 26, 2020 7:25 AM

I've watched the series twice, in two languages which forced me to keep up the second viewing where I might have been a bit bored with something I had seen not terribly long ago. Whereas there were some stunning episodes and scenes, the ending was not up to that standard. But was I deeply disappointed? No. It's someone's story, and a quite fantastical one (into which I was drawn initially by visuals and finally caught an interest in the story, or parts of it); I went into it out of curiosity, expecting not to like it at all. In the end, as with most any film or series that holds my attention, I knew I would like parts and dislike others.

I could watch it again at some point Im sure, but probably with some fucking around on my mobile during some of the scenes.

The book vs. series people I never understand. In almost any case a book(s) and a film or series will be very different things, even when the adaptation is extraordinarily faithful. If you like the series but don't care about the books, fine, and vice versa. Barry Lyndon is a great film and a great book, but very different experiences. Vanity Fair is a visually interesting film but doesn't hold a candle to the richness of the book; and every decade for the last half century there's been a new British serial adaptation of the novel. And so it goes: you like a novel more or a film more, or you like them in different ways.

by Anonymousreply 128October 26, 2020 9:22 AM

Probably not, OP, but it depends how long I live.

by Anonymousreply 129October 26, 2020 9:25 AM

I can't have more of something, if I haven't had any of it to begin with.

by Anonymousreply 130October 26, 2020 9:27 AM
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