"We Brits aren’t enjoying America’s export of political correctness"

It's written by Douglas Murray, who has been discussed at length on DL.

[quote]We Brits aren’t enjoying America’s export of political correctness

Fuck the Brits, they started this shit

Who is this 'we' he's referring to?

He's got a point OP.

Why do people post so many threads based on NY Post stories? That paper should be called the NEW YORK POS, because that's what is. Please stop inviting clicks to Murdoch-owned media!

I still don't understand why there was a BLM protest in Britain. It was something that happened in a complete different country. What were the Birtish even protesting?

^ Totally agree . It seems to not make much sense. It wasn’t about the same thing here in London, though. There is still a lot of underlying racism in the U.K., though. Look at our government. Never a face of colour in parliament.

Douglas Murray is some Brit alt-right shitstain that one of our trolls has been trying to make happen on DL.

Oh well, that's what happens when you live in a country that is a follower, not a leader.

Douglas Murray is some Brit alt-right shitstain that one of our trolls has been trying to make happen on DL. R 8

So after dismissing him as “alt -right shitstain” from another country perhaps you would like to tell us his greatest crime, especially on here. He is a Gay intellectual who thinks the Gay movement has been hijacked by the Trans agenda. He is right.

In Britain at the moment there are quite a few Gay men calling out the bullshit of the Left. Bravo!!!

[quote] He is a Gay intellectual who thinks the Gay movement has been hijacked by the Trans agenda. He is right.

If you're going to lie, at least do it convincingly. And, by the way, shouldn't you be out there on the ledge somewhere? Along with your UK TERFs?

No matter what you spill in your verbal diarrhea, your Orange Führer is going down - BIGLY!!

No “intellectual” of any merit needs to publish in the New York Post. Spare us this bullshit.

R11, not one ounce of orange diarrhea has been spewed by r10, who speaks the truth—something that has nothing to do with Trump, as we all know.

Not guilty.

That said, "Never a face of colour in Parliament" . . . Pardon? Did you miss Diane Abbott? David Lammy? But for the record:

"After the 2015 general election, 41 MPs from an ethnic minority background were elected to Parliament. 25 of the previous 27 ethnic minority MPs retained their seats and were joined by 16 new ethnic minority MPs. 23 were from the Labour Party, 17 of them were Conservatives and one from the SNP. In the 2017 general election, 52 ethnic minority MPs were elected, including 32 Labour MPs, 19 Conservatives and one Liberal Democrat, according to think tank British Future and the House of Commons Library. In the 2019 general election, this figure rose to 65, with 22 Conservative, 41 Labour and two Liberal Democrat non-white MPs."

You were saying?

Based on data from unofficial sources including Operation Black Vote, the House of Commons Library estimated that there are 55 ethnic minority members of the House of Lords as of 29 January 2020. Of these, 8 are affiliated with the Labour Party, 11 are crossbenchers, 12 are Conservatives, 8 are Liberal Democrats, 8 non-affiliated, and one is a bishop.[12][13][14][15]

Royal 'we' now? I thought he might be the republican type.

He's a slightly more polished version of Milo Y. Scratch the surface and it's the same shit - literally.

Douglas Murray is only a shitstain to people who believe that the left and the Trans community can do no wrong, and anyone who disagrees should be dragged off to an auto da fe.

I don't agree with everything Murray says, but he's at least had the balls to point up some uncomfortable problems with multiculturalism, pandering to Islam, political correctness, etc., that the government and the MSM refuse to acknowledge - until it became impossible not to. Witness the latest Islamist attack in France. Is Macron a shitstain for making a public speech about curbing Islamism in France, virtually echoing what Murray said years ago?

Murray is a seasoned journalist and writer, and highly intelligent. I know it bites that such a one isn't out there carrying a torch for BLM, the statue removers, the re-namers, the attacks on any cultural emblem that doesn't reflect the latest trend in sociopolitical isms and their own faces, but there it is.

As to who brought political correctness to whom, Labour in Britain was well ahead at least ten years ago, when it refused to acknowledge the difficulties that floods of immigration brought to formerly all-white working-class communities.

Everyone who pushed for multiculturalism rather than assimilation and integration is now responsible for eroding national fabrics and the intense fanatical polarisation that they pretend to deplore.

I'll take Murray's columns over the atrociously biased, sickening instrument of political correctness and race obsession that the once venerable New York TIMES has become any day.

How weak is British culture that it copies every single ripple in trends from the U.S.?

Me neither. I don't enjoy American brand of snowflake political overcorrectness. Too much and never enough. Fuck them.

R14, who is considered an ethnic minority in Britain?

He’s right on many accounts. The problem is, that my millennial generation is so spoiled yet number, that they are desperate to belong to a cause, a movement. They are desperate to feel something.

I agree with a lot of the article.

However, the Brits seem to consume Americana/Americanism ad nauseam. It sounds funny when they use American slang. Every time I hear a Brit say "woke" I actually cringe. That is merely one example.

Oh, great. Yet another European right wing troll... In the link below is a list of outlets where you'll find more sympathetic ears.

Then why would you adopt it?

And we care about their irrelevant wants why?

He's right in that it has been primarily American billionaires funding the trans coup, which includes all the propaganda, social engineering around the issue, financial capture of previous gay interest and activist organizations and all but the smallest, fully independent left leaning media outlets. It's, effectively, colonization. A Brit raging against colonization, however, really distracts from the urgent problem at hand, which is: the eradication of gay and women's rights and elevation of regressive, homophobic, misogynist gender ideology.

Take it to Mumsnet, luvvie @ R26

So, these anti-trans trolls have returned in full force on weekends on weekends? Deja vu. I guess no other shit trolling is sticking to the walls in the lead up to the election and they've reverted to their old tricks.

"Anti-trans" ≠ "troll," r28. It's merely an expression of good, gay common sense.

The UK is a million times worse when it comes to political correctness. Hate speech is a crime. They don’t have their own version of America’s First Amendment. Say something unpopular and you’ll get a phone call from the police.

[quote] How weak is British culture that it copies every single ripple in trends from the U.S.?

Like Stonewall.

It's strange when Brits try to apply American-specific issues directly to the UK. One example is "defund the police". Here in the UK, the police is UNDER-funded, as opposed to its militarised American counterpart.

So don't export it then, and go suck a lime.

Easy fix.

The tranny troll telling gay people rightly concerned about the erosion of our legal protections to discuss it on a board for moms rather than on a site created by and for gay people is exactly the problem.

Is Mumsnet the new iVillage?

Theatres Act, 1968. That’s all I’ll say.

“So don't export it then, and go suck a lime.”

It is very hard to not get the opinions of the dominant culture pushed onto you. The Anglophere is dominated by America so the voices of”Me me me” Americans spread out across to Britain. Canada, Australia and New Zealand and suddenly we start talking in the black and white terms Americans do..

Dear England,

You think of us more than we think of you. And to be honest, we really don't think of you at all.

In other words, We have our own problems Miss

[quote]the Brits seem to consume Americana/Americanism ad nauseam.

It's okay if they adopt the good stuff, but we expect them to know better and not repeat the bad things in America.

What's interesting are the number of protests in countries that aren't English-speaking where the signs are in English. Activists are adopting issues and jargon that are completely American. Wouldn't that be a form of colonialism?

Also, good luck to them in importing American race grievance to Northern European countries that are so race averse, they don't track race statistics in any way or for any reason. The Germans, among others, are not going to stand for it.

You make a good point, R40, and this is worth a thread of its own.

A country like the Netherlands tends to be more likely to adopt US social trends (and ape the jargon) than, say, France, Belgium, Switzerland, and Austria (i.e. countries with more dominant languages), where there has so far been little public interest in, for example, transgender issues.

Fuck Rupert Murdoch's piece of shit right-wing NYPost.

R6, the case of George Floyd became a catalyst for protest in the UK because of massive frustration with the police. There have been multiple deaths of black people in police custody, that have nearly always resulted in the police being exonerated. The rates of the stop and search policy being used on black men vastly outweigh its use on the majority white population. A black person driving a nice car can routinely expect to be stopped by the police and asked if it is theirs. It has understandably created fear and resentment, and this is something the police have lost control of.

As a gay man I am not a fan of the police myself. I had a bad experience of their homophobia when I was very young, and their attitude and treatment of me has made me suspicious of them ever since. I can only imagine how black people feel about the police.

Are you blind, R7 ?

R36 I still don't understand

Silly cunts at R6 and R7 - the Brits were protesting for the way their blacks are treated in their own country (nothing like the deeply ingrained and endemic racism in the US though) and they were also protesting in solidarity and support of the US BLM protests you ungrateful, self-absorbed piles of shit.

Also - fuck Murdoch's press garbage for giving nasty right winger Douglas Murray a voice. Why can't they both just die?

I agree r43 that I have not had the experience of a Black person in a Western country nor have I had amazing experiences as a Gay man with police. But in 2020 where would you rather be a Gay person, a woman or a Black person than in the West?

Paraphrasing Douglas Murray if there is a better place to be Gay or. Woman or Black where is it ? When is it ? If not now ,when. If not here ,where is this utopia?

That doesn’t mean we stop growing and becoming better, but it does mean we have to stop tearing each other apart. It takes 10 minutes to destroy all our rights, to tear down the buildings to begin again , but how many thousands of years did it take to make this ?

The West is the exception here. Most of history has been bear subsistence , poverty and bloodshed. Before we tear it all down think. There haven’t been that many places that have embraced Gay rights.

giving nasty right winger Douglas Murray a voice. Why can't they both just die? R46

That says more about you r46 than it does about Douglas Murray. You actually suggested someone should die. What a low and pretty disgusting thing to say. Good luck with Karma

Just fuck off R48.

Some people here are acting as if they're High Priests in the Religion of Cancel Culture.

Douglas Murray is a self-enamored conservative troll, but calling him alt-right is ridiculous and he does have some good and germane points usually.

I don't want to speak for Britain from my continental European point of view, but trying to import BLM to Western and Central Europe is ridiculous, and everyone knows it. The whole Critical Race Theory bullshit (white fragility, whiteness, etc.) that is currently peddled in the US hopefully won't take hold in European academia or the public discourse. It's not like don't have our experiences with Critical (Social Justice) Theory here in Europe; we started the whole thing after all.

Douglas Murray is very much a Datalonger.

He'd never admit it though.

[quote]It's strange when Brits try to apply American-specific issues directly to the UK. One example is "defund the police". Here in the UK, the police is UNDER-funded, as opposed to its militarised American counterpart.

Absolutely right.

Ellie Mae O'Hagan, most famous for being a friend of Owen Jones and an occasional Guardian columnist called for the police to be defunded (tweet since deleted) on the grounds that they are the first responders to incidents where people are having breakdowns.

Secret Barrister - an anonymous account that has published acclaimed books about the criminal justice system and regularly eviscerates the Tory government - had this to say in response.

[quote]Defund the police? As someone who watches victims of sexual and violent crime failed on a daily basis by a justice system that has been cut through the bone, I can tell you with confidence that this is the stupidest thing anyone has said about criminal justice in a long time. The article you are tweeting gives you the context. In the US, spending on police and prisons has soared at the expense of social programmes. In the UK, the justice budget has been cut more than any other area of public life over the last decade. The police have already been defunded, as have the prisons, the CPS, the courts, Probation, legal aid - every element of criminal justice is in crisis. Police investigations take literally years now, and many viable prosecutions still collapse for - yes - lack of basic resources.

The cuts over the last 10 years have made policing in the UK difficult, but a message of REFORM or RESTRUCTURE to put the focus back on community policing, preventative policing, policing by consent with extra investment would go down very well with the public, but no, the left wing idiots have to copy the US because it's the thing to do.

R20 - the phrase used in Britain is "BAME" - Black, Asian, Minority Ethnic".

The black population (i.e., Afro-Caribbean) in Britain is actually just 4%. Yet, they are represented now on British television at 14% and are still screeching about being "invisible" and "underrepresented". They seem to feel that they deserve 50% of the jobs no matter what the context despite being only 4% of the population. The truth is, you can't have an all white cast in a BBC or ITV production any longer without a black face - even when it makes absolutely no historical or dramatic sense.

The Muslim community is about 11% and that, along with Hindu/Indian, is what Brits call "Asian".

The broad "Minority Ethnic" I suppose allows some grudging room for Britain's tiny Jewish population (about 250,000 in a population of nearly 70 million), a few actual Asians (you know, people from places like Vietnam and Thailand), some Maori from Down Under, you know - the rag tag bits no one really cares about.

As if, you know, being a tenth generation Geordie or Glaswegian or Cronish didn't qualify as "ethnic"!

^*Cornish (not Cronnish)

[quote]The Muslim community is about 11% and that, along with Hindu/Indian, is what Brits call "Asian".

That's bullshit. Why just lie when you can search the internet in seconds to find out actual statistics?

The last census was in 2011 and the next one will be in 2021.

The 2011 census showed:

80.5% white British

5.5% white non-British (Irish, Polish, French, Australian, American, Canadian etc)

7.5% Asian British

3.3% Black African/Caribbean/British

2.2% Mixed

1.0% Other

r53, I've repeatedly asked the same question: OK, so, you defund the police and divert energy and resources to community pow-wows where the loudest people win and set policy...then, who responds to domestic violence and rape in progress calls? Who stops violent assaults without police? There's never an answer given.

[quote][R53], I've repeatedly asked the same question: OK, so, you defund the police and divert energy and resources to community pow-wows where the loudest people win and set policy...then, who responds to domestic violence and rape in progress calls? Who stops violent assaults without police? There's never an answer given.

A few years ago the National Union Of Students black student body passed a motion to abolish prisons on the grounds that prisons are racist, sexist and transphobic.

They also passed a motion calling the term "Black" racist as for excluding non Black minority groups, arguing the term "Politically black" was more inclusive.

At the time the National Union of Students had just elected a notorious anti Jewish racist as its president, someone who had (been forced) to issue an apology for her racism.

Correct r56. The Population of Muslims was 4.4% in 2011 and is estimated to be 5.3 in 2017. In London it is 12.4%

r58, and the actually black students were find with the phrasing of "politically black", which is effectively "trans black"?

[quote] The Muslim community is about 11% and that, along with Hindu/Indian, is what Brits call "Asian".

So what do they call "Asian" Asians (Chinese etc.)?

[quote]The Muslim community is about 11% and that, along with Hindu/Indian, is what Brits call "Asian".

[quote]So what do they call "Asian" Asians (Chinese etc.)?

Just to clarify again, the idea that 11% of people in the UK are Muslim or Asian is bullshit.

Asian is a term used for people with Asian heritage.

But people also use British Indian. British Pakistani, British Bangladeshi etc.

Again, to point out the desperation of the left, here's an opinion piece in The Guardian complaining about British Indians being given top jobs in the Conservative government. The article was widely denounced as racist, but it was in The Guardian, so it can't be.

Are you hot WestEnder r43?

It's been ten years since that census. Where do you think the lion's share of non-EU immigrants have been coming from over the last ten years?

Pakistan and India, with Poland throwing in the "white" bits.

The black population of the UK is between 3%-4% - how does that make "4%" a deliberate lie? For what it's worth, it's the black population that doesn't seem like it is going to budge much, mostly because of intermarriage (this is true in America, as well, where the black population is actually under 15%). To date, I have heard only ONE black British man, a pastor, beg the media and the left to stop lauding intermarriage as he sees HIS heritage threatened, just as Reform/non-observant Jews realised what was happening to them through intermarriage.

I repeat: it's been ten years since that census: net migration into the UK has shown, apart from Poland, almost entirely Third World arrivals. Also, as in France, there have been problems identifying the true number of Muslims because some refuse to participate.

I'll accept that the estimate of 11% may have been high, but spare me that "5%" bit. It is very likely close to 8% by now because of who the country's immigrants have been coming from for the last ten years - and still are, ceaselessly, tens of thousands a year - and, they are outbreeding the natives rapidly.

Muslims from places like Pakistain are referred to as Asian by the UK media, police, etc. If you remember back to "Jewel in the Crown", Hari Kumar refers to himself as "black" and his lover, Daphne, as white.

The grooming gangs uncovered all over England were all "Asian" - i.e., Muslim men from the sub-continent. That's how they were referred to in the media and in court documents.

The bottom line is that England, like the rest of western and northern Europe, saddled itself a problem, going for cheap immigrant labour economies and gamely trying for multiculturalism because it was easier and cheaper than revamping economies and the education system now failing white working-class boys more than anyone else, to make it more appealing for that 80% white British to have larger families.

Why would the writer think Americans are enjoying it?

It's a small cadre that is pushing this stupid shit and people in positions to stop it are too scared to swat them away like flies.

[quote]He's a slightly more polished version of Milo Y. Scratch the surface and it's the same shit - literally.

He's a pastier, less greasy version of Milo.

He's not wrong.

Says author from country where people are attacking 5G masts because they think 5G causes COVID.

[quote] I still don't understand why there was a BLM protest in Britain. It was something that happened in a complete different country. What were the Birtish even protesting?

I felt the same way at first. My UK and AU friends told me the US police brutality against blacks was part of a larger pattern of ghastly treatment of dark skinned people by whites that very much resonates in their country as well.

And let’s not forget who planted slavery in the colonies in the first place. The US has sprouted many seeds planted by a very English/British attitude about people and life in general. Even gun ownership, believe it or not: after the English civil war it was considered a sacred right in England for commoners to own firearms to protect themselves against royal tyranny, and that transplanted into the colonies, which became the US.

America exports wars, death and destruction for special interest. I guess that's OK for this limey poodle.

The worst foreign import America ever received is Rupert Murdoch who has poisoned the minds of millions over decades including complete scum on DL.

[quote]I still don't understand why there was a BLM protest in Britain. It was something that happened in a complete different country. What were the Birtish even protesting?

Now apply that question to why if there's a beheading in Paris, somehow, it becomes the fault of millions of Muslims who live here and had nothing to do with it.

[quote]The US has sprouted many seeds planted by a very English/British attitude about people and life in general. Even gun ownership, believe it or not: after the English civil war it was considered a sacred right in England for commoners to own firearms to protect themselves against royal tyranny, and that transplanted into the colonies, which became the US.

Seeing as other British colonies such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India, Jamaica, Ghana, Ireland and Singapore don't have issues with guns, I'd say America's problems have fuck all to do with the British/English.

The British can eat shit - oh, wait, they already do.

No one is forcing the cunts to copy anything American, least of all out social policies.

And I am sick of them:

1. Imitating us badly

2. Fucking whining about it.

Go bin a pound of coke up your toot, order a frozen deep-fried potato on a stick and take the longest possible walk on the shortest possible pier.

R73 What the fuck is a 'frozen deep-fried potato on a stick'? Or a 'toot'?

India is not a British colony, doorknob.

[quote] Seeing as other British colonies such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India, Jamaica, Ghana, Ireland and Singapore don't have issues with guns,

They all had widespread gun ownership until massacres led them to change their laws. I fully support that and I fully support similar laws in the US. But that doesn’t affect the truth of my statement that widespread gun ownership in the US, so widely sneered at in the UK and used as a stick to beat the “septics” with, actually had its roots in England.

[quote]India is not a British colony, doorknob

Not now it's not. Does the word Partition mean anything to you? Amritsar? Ghandi?

Only a homophobe would compare him to Milo. He has nothing in common with that minstrel show.

[quote] India is not a British colony, doorknob.

Besides R77's answer, by singling out only India you're implying that you think Australia, New Zealand, and Canada are British colonies.

hasn't been a british colony for decades, limey shithead. GFY. The sun set on the Raj ages ago.

But that's what's really bothering you isn't it, Limesucker? The mask has fallen off the ever-so-refined motherland and people are really seeing who you are.

Trash. You've always been trash.

R64 As far as the black population in America goes, as long as the system keeps over sentencing black men young enough before they can procreate, and getting killed at the hands of the police and community violence etc. Yeah, the % rate is going to hover around 13 to 15%. But I've recently heard that the black population in America is much larger than people believe it to be. That the number is closer to 21% and not 12 to 15% a lot of people don't participate in the US census and there's been evidence of this for a while, which is why there's been so much more of an effort to get all black people and other racially ethnic minority groups to participate in the census count for 2020.

Many believe the black population is closer to 60 million instead of 43 million. I've heard this a lot from a lot of people I know who work high up in the US federal government. They've also said that the white population in America really is falling. I guess a lot of the calculations are right and some are wrong, but still very interesting to learn about.

R56, here's the 2001 British Census

That's bullshit. Why just lie when you can search the internet in seconds to find out actual statistics? The last census was in 2011 and the next one will be in 2021.

Well, we can also look at the 2001 census and we can see where the trend is going

2001 2011

80.5 % 91.3 % white British

4.4% 5.5 % white non-British (Irish, Polish, French, Australian, American, Canadian etc)

4.93% 7.5% Asian British

2.2% 3.3% Black African/Caribbean/British

1.4% 2.2% Mixed

0.4% 1.0% Other

2001 - 2011

80.5 % - 91.3 % white British

4.4% - 5.5 % white non-British (Irish, Polish, French, Australian, American, Canadian etc)

4.93% - 7.5% Asian British

2.2% - 3.3% Black African/Caribbean/British

1.4% - 2.2% Mixed

0.4% - 1.0% Other

Can we discuss MORE of Douglas’ length, please?!

R80 - Oh, right, Britain has always been "trash". Those universities established in the fucking 14th century, the push toward depriving royalty of the Divine Right of Kings, the literature, the poetry, the playwrights, the architecture . . . why, this little piece of "trash" has never contributed a thing to the world. Do you know how much science came out of those universities, and who uncovered DNA? Does the name Newton ring a bell? Darwin? Hawking? Crick? Farraday? Turing? Fleming (you know, that trashy Brit who brought you penicillin and got a Nobel for it?)

You pathetic hate-filled moron. Open a fucking history book. The Raj in actuality lasted 75 years. India adopted the British form of government but is still one of the most corrupt, graft-run governments on earth. Englishmen stopped waking up mourning the Empire decades ago.

Britain was a vibrant unique place teeming with originality and struggle long before the fucking Empire, you brainless twat. Try looking just the literature, playwrights, poetry, and scientists.

The British don't know the terms "South Asian" or "East Asian".

R80 - Oh, and it's only you Americans who cling to the idea of Britain being all about 200 years of colonialism and Empire. You're the ones hung on that view of England, especially.

It will come as a shock, I know, but most Englishmen don't wake up mourning the loss of Empire, and in fact would forget about it permanently except that Americans seem to be obsessed with it.

Basically he's whinning that straight white men are losing power.

#MeToo and Black Lives Matter wouldn't have made any effect there is they didn't resonate there too.

"Political Correctness" just means treat everyone with dignity.

I'll take out my tiny violin for him

He's gay r88 and is a fan of Margaret Thatcher. The biggest conservative political heroes in the UK right now are Priti Patel and Rishi Sunak. Former Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sajid Javid is not only a Muslim but a big fan of Ayn Rand.

Americans really need to stop imposing their own cultural fuck-ups on the rest of the world.

R89, #metoo and BLM have whatever resonance they do have in the UK mostly due to media hype. They only appear more resonant than they actually are because the voices that shout in favour of them are few but very loud.

[quotes] Americans really need to stop imposing their own cultural fuck-ups on the rest of the world.

Take back Simon Cowell, Piers Morgan and Sharon Osbourne, then we’ll talk.

"Political Correctness" just means treat everyone with dignity."

You mean like the way the Trans bullies treated J.K. Rowling?

R16 I don’t agree. Douglas would never say “homosexuals choose to be gay”. He would never heil Hitler while singing “American the Beautiful”. He would never dog whistle horrible things about Jews.

He’s educated and say what you want about the points made in his books but he is not a racist. The BBC had to issue and apology when one of their anchors did it.

I would challenge anybody here to find me some thing about Douglas Murray that is racist or homophobic. He’s gay.

Just because you don’t like his points on immigration, and I don’t like all of them either doesn’t mean that he is an alt right troll.

Milo wishes he had the intelligence and the grace to sit down and talk with people the way Douglas can.

And before anyone tells the Trump Tard to get lost. I’ve cast my ballot early for Biden.

Trump is a menace and has to be voted out on the 3rd. His lame duck period is worrisome. He will make sure Biden inherits nothing but (more) chaos.

"Basically he's whinning that straight white men are losing power."

Oh, dear.

That's "whining".

Yes, it's all been about straight white men in power. See link below.

^*Meant for R88

Wake up from your long nap. It's 2020.

A lot of Brits post here.

I'm glad Brits post here. Britain does seem to be wracked with trouble and trouble-makers at the moment.

Our British cousins have racism and all of the wonderfully terrible problems we have here. I love the British, but they like to bury their head in the sand about a lot of things. COVID has effected everyone and the chickens have come home to roost. No more pretending these are just American problems. We have just been known for them a lot longer.

Well nobody asked you motherfucking Brits to copy everything we do anyway. Nobody exported shit - you Brits copied us as usual. Don’t worry about what we are doing and you won’t have to blame us for your misery.

No one is over in fucking Blighty forcing the limeys to copy the US.

No one. Not one single person.

You do it? It's your problem.

Twats.

You shouldn't export it, R100, put in your own toilet.

Explain your obsession with Meghan Markle and the Royals please?????

R85, yeah British culture...odd how it seemed to grind to a total stop just as the Industrial Revolution got cranked up.

Oh, goodness me! Modernism! How frightfully awful! Let's go in for kitten pictures and fairy paintings and that lovely Kong Arthur! And tons of Tudor Revival! No nasty avant-garde pictures or skyscrapers!! How frightfully Jewish! How French ! How- GASWP!!! - American!

Oh, whilst! Oh rawther! oh pip-pip! Oh, what a lovely thatched roof! Oh we are a nation of chickenshits!

No intellectualism or statistics for us, thank you! We're British!!!

The British Royals are more interesting than the Irish-American Kennedys.

[quote]He’s educated and say what you want about the points made in his books but he is not a racist.

He has argued for years that racism doesn't even exist. He loves Enoch Powell and complains regularly about the whites losing the UK. In fact, he wrote a whole damn book about it.

You don't know anything about Douglas Murray, do you?

Girls, GIRLS!!!! You are all rotten, hateful, white deplorables at your core. Relax your sphincters.

I can't believe r93 really challenged people to find something racist about Douglas Murray when his entire fucking Wikipedia article is all about the numerous racist things he's said.

R104 The American and the Brits both plunged into Modernism but both of them realised Modernism was a dead end full of Warhol and Trash.

Actually, R109, the Americans were always interested in the future and therefore created new forms of architecture, music and art that reflected this, beginning in the 1880s.

The British burrowed straight into the Gothic Revival the minute smokestacks showed up and emerged for a spurt of hideous cement "Brutalism" (their sole Modernist style) after WWII. They have tried to lay claim to a general Modernist history since then, with laughable results.

Douglas Murray thinks gays shouldn't identify as gays and definitely shouldn't have a gay community:

[quote]Murray believes that homosexuality “is an unstable component on which to base an individual identity and a hideously unstable way to try and base any form of group identity.”

Sounds pretty homophobic to me. It's not like we haven't all run into self-loathing faux intellectual or Log Cabin Republican doing the "but gay isn't an identity" thing.

R110 Modernist American architects from the 1880s: Louis Sullivan? John Wellborn Root?

I love Douglas Murray and I love that some of you are so obviously triggered by him. You throw labels at him as if one of them will stick. I have listened to many hours of him and read his books. He is not a racist. But then as he has said if you go around calling everyone racist, pretty soon you all are and you have slaughtered the word as well.

I think his best thoughts at the moment is if you call someone racist and you can’t prove it then you suffer the punishment you were so willing to inflict on the person. I like that. The other comment he has said if you are called a racist you should call the person who has said that something like well you are a pedophile and when they exclaim they aren’t you calmly reply “ Oh I thought we were playing that game just throwing out insults about anything and seeing what stuck. We’re not? Well let’s not because unless you have evidence, then I suggest we stop now .” Words to that effect. Perfect comebacks.

He is not Homophobic either. He thinks the Gay Community is now more worried about Trans Rights than Gay Rights . He is not alone in that thought.

The best part about him. He doesn’t care. But be careful .

R111: he was close friends with (and heavily influenced by) the late conservative philosopher Roger Scruton, who had also been accused of homophobia on various occasions.

R114 Is that ALL you can say about a man and his philosophy?

Is there nothing about him and his philosophy you can mention? Have you read or seen anything by him other than some cherry-picking from 1984— I assume before you were born?

God what a load of drivel from the knee-jerk lefites here.

Britain isn't "losing" the UK. It is 80% white. Its culture is under attack by a tiny minority of people and THAT is what both Murray and Brawer (both gay) warned about, and as you can see from recent events in France, the problem isn't unique to Britain of a long-held sense of identity being challenged by a segment of very loud minorities who, for all their moans about how terrible it is, banged on the door to be let in to that very Little England, which was a highly successful country.

There are quite a few Powell "lovers" out there, who, looking at statues being pulled down, attempts to teach "white privilege" in schools (I'm sure the white working-class boys kicked to the kerb by the system will be interested to hear that, not to mention much of the population of the Tyneside, the descendants of the Jarrow Walk) as if it were a fact, and the now acknowledged overrepresentation of minorities (read: black) faces in television programming: 14% as opposed to the under 4% that they actually are).

The battle lines are being drawn around the culture wars, not the actual numbers. The losses aren't numerical, but the sense of a coherent culture that believes in itself. This is also taking place in places like France, Germany, and Sweden.

Britain is unique in some ways and in others struggling with the same issues that other European countries are.

Denmark is amongst those nations that have been quite open about intending NOT to "lose" white Denmark. Are they trash, too?

And speaking of trash, tell us again what trash Britain is and always was?

R115: I don't think this is the place (nor do I have the time or inclination) to go into a detailed discussion of Scruton's work. Why would I? So as not to offend adherents like you? I merely pointed out the fact that Scruton (Murray's mentor) had been accused of homophobia during his lifetime (he always made a point of defending himself).

Douglas Murray came out fighting for Roger Scruton. A journalist tried to destroy Scruton’s reputation by taking quotes given in an interview out of context . Douglas was able to destroy the reporter’s story and save Scruton’s reputation 6 months before he died.

Scruton in earlier life helped set up underground University networks in Eastern Europe and helped countless people. Sometimes life is complex and we are complex and a person needs to be seen as a whole and not in the 2020 Black/White culture wars.

^*Bawer (not Brawer)

Should have read: "White Britain isn't losing Britian"

As the statues were vandalised and every last vestige of British culture from Nelson to Muir to Shakespeare are sneered at or the victims of attempted co-opting (Beethoven was black! Beethoven was black! He wasn't and his DNA is available for testing, but the groups asserting he was actually black won't take the plunge because they know they'll end up with fugues all over their faces).

So Powell and Murray and Bawer, however objectionable the hate-filled poster above finds them, were prescient: they saw that the failure to insist on assimilation after bringing in floods of Third World and Muslim minorities, who (duh!) see only the vestiges of white culture around them, almost none of which they have any history with or can take credit for, see dismantling or discrediting that culture as the only way to take possess it. As Bawer said, your cathedrals, literature, heroes, will end up as exhibits in museums . . .

The attempt is to force an entire culture to see itself through only one prism: black-white race relations will have dire results for everyone, for no culture, least of all 1,000 years of this island nation, can be reduced to such a prism.

The backlash is about the impossibility of showing a costume drama on television that lacks a black face, no matter how transparently awkwardly it is worked in, or how historically or dramatically silly it is. The Hollow Crown's casting of the 47 year old Nigerian Sophie Okonedo as the 20 year old white French princess Margaret of Anjou, wife of Henry VI, is a classic example. She looked like Tom Sturridge's mother, not his ambitious young French bride, and stood out like the proverbial sore thumb. The director insisted that he NEVER for a moment considered casting anyone but a nearly menopausal black woman for the role of the historically young white French princess. Because, in ALL of Britain there wasn't a single white actress of the right age who could play what isn't one of Shakespeare's most complex women: a power hungry royal trying to ensure that her son got the throne and stayed on it and getting rid of any pesky Yorks. Wow. I don't know how any 25 year old white actress out of RADA could possibly have managed the role!

Try a visit to places like Cornwall, Dorset, and varied points in the northeast. Newcastle is still more than 80% white; Sunderland is over 90% white, so are Dorset and Cornwall.

The backlash is not about the numbers, but the insane pandering and the failure to insist upon integration.

You may not like Murray and Bawer and Powell - but they weren't entirely wrong in their predictions of the culture wars to come.

Meanwhile, back in France: Macron is making far stronger efforts than anyone in vicious racist Britain re its minority Islamist problem. I suppose the French are trash, too.

Sweden is belatedly trying to make up for its past mistakes in turning a blind eye to what happened when it brought in so many Third World immigrants without a thought to integration.

Denmark is turning its back on multiculturalism. Queen Margrethe publicly stated that "Denmark is not a multicultural country. If you come here, you become Danish, or you leave."

Yet, somehow, all the lefties can do is keep raising those tired old sneers about an Empire no one, I mean NO ONE, thinks about from Sunday to the next, or gives a tinker's curse about.

It is the loss of a coherent culture in which all share a stake and identity is what is at stake. Political movements like BLM aren't out to heal divisions or expand culture: but to dismantle culture, discredit it, and take it over.

Just as Murray, Bawer, Powell, and people like the shamefully crucified Ray Honeyford predicted.

Niche people. And the niche is the cracks in the wall where nasty little things tend to hide.

Go Douglas! Make the gays proud!

I used to be an Anglophile who assumed Brits were intelligent and classy. Whooo boy...that all changed upon my first visit to London in 2013. A taxi driver who picked me up from the tube station felt quite comfortable going on a racist tirade about Muslims a minute after the trip began.

[quote] who, for all their moans about how terrible it is, banged on the door to be let in

The irony.

R122 - You assumed that "all Brits were intelligent and classy"?

That's really lousy trolling. No one should assume anything of the kind about any huge population, if you did, you're a moron who knew nothing about Britain, but I suspect trolling.

Too many Masterpiece Theatre programmes - maybe you should have watched "Our Friends in the North" rather than "Downton Abbey".

Or even better, try Terence Davies' film memoir about his hometown, Liverpool, "Time and the City".

God, Britons can't win: they're either 65 million intelligent and classy people who can all quote Shakespeare, or they're white colonialist bigots. You remember Liverpool? Where the Beatles grew up? The rough Tyneside where The Animals came from?

But we're all "intelligent and classy" and lo and behold! You were disappointed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????

We apologise profoundly, all 65 million of us, for "all" of us not living up to "intelligent and classy".

Shove your typical faux Jane Austen/Inspector Morse/Oxbridge Anglophilia up your bigoted, ignorant arse.

Next visit, try Oxford, and then Bradford, Leeds, Blackburn, Rotherham, and the Tyneside for a more realistic view of an actual spectrum of people that "Brits" make up.

R124: thanks for mentioning Terence Davies and his wonderful documentary. The whole thing is on YouTube, for those who are interested.

Wasn’t England pc before the west? I remember a British woman telling me in the early 90s that they had all kind of programs and benefits to aid people With anything under the sun. They had a much broader definition of disabilities

[quote]Douglas Murray came out fighting for Roger Scruton. A journalist tried to destroy Scruton’s reputation by taking quotes given in an interview out of context . Douglas was able to destroy the reporter’s story and save Scruton’s reputation 6 months before he died.

Even though my politics are very different to those of Scruton and Murray, Murray did go up in my estimation when he defended his Scruton and his dogged persistence forced The New Statesman to release a transcript of the interview and issue an eventual apology for the way Scruton's comments were deliberately misrepresented by George Eaton and taken out of context.

George Eaton, the unfortunate looking posh rich privately educated Corbyn supporter who interviewed Scruton, posted a photo of himself drinking from a bottle of champagne with the caption "That feeling when you get right wing racist and homophobe sacked as a Tory government advisor".

Eaton apologised for his conduct on social media but never apologised for the interview itself. He was demoted by The New Statesman but is inexplicably still employed by them, something that wouldn't have happened with a working class, state school educated journalist.

R127 - Excellent post, and proving what so many of us have long ago figured out: there's little to choose between when it comes to the far right and far left.

R125 - It was one of the most striking, original, sad yet beautiful documentaries I have ever seen. It shows how the sense of place, however grimy, poor, and hard, held those communities together, which can also be said of the Tyne area up north.

Maybe the poor sod who expected his cabbies to discuss "Hamlet" with him should have watched it prior to his visit.

The North is still considered the stepchild of England, which in the mid-19th century up until the present, was/is home to some of the worst slums in Europe (and that was when it was all white), never mind the coal-fields of Wales - in case no one ever watched "How Green Was My Valley".

And yet the country as a whole produced people who loved their cities and towns, felt a sense of belonging, and through all of it, also produced all that art, literature, the NSH, a solid Labour movement that did itself in by becoming the fridge magent of the comfortable middle-class, leaving its gritty working-class roots behind and leading up to the collapse of the Red Wall in the 2019 GE.

Oh, poster who expected all Brits to be "classy and intelligent" - you didn't know about those gritty working-class areas?

^*NHS

We Americans are getting sick of the British rationalizing racism.

We Brits are getting sick of Americans who know next to nothing about us reducing us to stereotypes, and waggling moralist fingers at us whilst they occupy a country every inch of which was wrested from the indigenous inhabitants who were treated so brutally one wonders that Americans dare to waggle fingers at anyone else - oh, and then there was the little matter of institutionalised slavery and Jim Crow and the Lynching Years that didn't really end until the late 1930 . . .

Try a mirror, mate.

r131, Americans don't "waggle."

R132 - You get the drift, I'm sure.

If you're resorting to questioning "waggle" and not responding to the fact that you have no problem living in a country stolen entirely from the indigenous peoples who were nearly wiped out genocidally, we get your drift, too, you smarmy hypocrite.

Talk to us when you decide to stop rationalising living on stolen land and are emigrating back to whatever country your most recent non-indigenous ancestor came from - you know, Sweden, Poland, Russia, Somalia, Iran, Vietnam, Scotland, Germany, China. Think of it as going home.

They'd love to have you back, I know.

George Eaton sounds like another Andrew Neather as someone who's eaten up with their tribal hatreds

[quote]George Eaton sounds like another Andrew Neather as someone who's eaten up with their tribal hatreds

Eaton is a fairly dull, unremarkable journalist typical of the private school system that dominates political journalism in the UK.

The New Statesman had two of Britain's exceptional journalists - Stephen Bush and Helen Lewis, although Lewis has since left for The Atlantic - but Eaton is just unremarkable. He personally appointed fellow public school posho Grace Blakeley as an economics columnist who has since been let go. Blakeley wrote a book called Stolen: How to Save the World from Financialisation, which was ridiculed by economists because she didn't understand what capital is. Blakeley's defence was that she was only 25 years old. Since the 2019 Tory landslide she appears on TV less and less but is still hired to patronise and shout at people she disagrees with.

Another of Eaton's career highlights was commissioning a column by the lawyer of one of the Islamic State runaway girls, in which Islamic State was compared to Israel. It was promptly deleted after an outcry.

Left wing poshos with a saviour complex are the absolute worst.

21st century Social Justice Warriors are SO holier-than-thou!

They're like the 'Onward Christian Soldiers' who find holy enemies everywhere they seek.

R108 that’s the same nonsense they’ve been pulling out on Home for years now. Do you really think the BBC would have an overt racist on to comment about politics and current events?

Milo is the fascist. Douglas just hold opinions that a lot of us on the left don’t like. I cannot fathom anyone that would hold him on the same level as Milo. They would have to be radical in their thinking. One is dangerous the other is thought-provoking or ignorable.

Honestly, Brits, take SOME of it. We tend to go overboard, but there are actually things, especially with you guys and your whole class thing. But definitely don't take it all. A lot of it is nonsense.

Winston Churchill was a racist, but he isn't being attacked for that. He's being attacked for causing a famine in India which killed a million people. That's not a trivial charge.

Trans have asymmetic outcomes. It works well for women who believe they are really men. It works very poorly for men who believe they are women.

I don't blame England for racism. It's sort of silly to blame people who died hundreds of years ago for some "sin." But just acknowledge that there was a lot of racism. Is that actually difficult?

The lives of many Jews may have been saved if people in other countries had spoken out. Injustices are an issue of the world.

Besides all of this crap is a result of British colonialism.

What's funny is that Brits are actually more liberal than Americans on a lot of issues

They had gay marriage before we did

They let gays serve openly in the military before we did

They have socialized healthcare

They abolished the death penalty decades ago

They legalized abortion before we did

"A Brit raging against colonization, however, really distracts from the urgent problem at hand, which is: the eradication of gay and women's rights and elevation of regressive, homophobic, misogynist gender ideology."

It isn't trans people who are against gay rights and women's rights......it's the conservatives who hate trans people who are against women and gay people

R139 You blame Churchill for single-handedly creating a famine which killed a million Indians.

Did he single-handedly create the famines which killed millions of Indians in 1858? The one in1877? Or the one in 1897? How about in 1900? Or the one in 1908? As well as 1944?

The fact remains that Churchill stopped Britain's War Cabinet from "making terms" with Germany (there were quite a few German sympathisers in the Cabinet and in the aristocracy and cafe society at the time) when the BEF was marooned on the beach at Dunkirk. Whatever his other failings, if Chamberlain and Eden had had their way, we'd be speaking German today and Britain's small Afro-Caribbean population (under 4%) and it's tiny Jewish population (about 250,000 out of 65 million) wouldn't be here at all. It would have been game, set, and match. Britain was the Last Man Standing, and America wouldn't enter the war for another year.

You can't view history that simplistically. Churchill, like almost every other man of his class and age, subscribed to the casual antisemitism that permeated Europe, only not as dramatically as it had erupted as a tool of control in Germany and Austria.

In the meantime, the entire West, which is to say, the powerful entities within it: America and the EU, have uniformly (yet again) ignored the latest mass famine and tragedy in Yemen, unwilling to interfere in the proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran, behind whom stand Russia and China, in which more than one million children have starved to death.

It's easy to cast stones in retrospect. Few heroes don't have feet of clay. No one is defending bad behaviour, but if Churchill hadn't been there, we wouldn't be having discussions of Political Correctness or the virtues of the lack thereof of multiculturalism.

It's part of the annoying refusal of history to run in straight lines of orthodox virtue that we'd like.

[quote] They had gay marriage before we did

When?

“But just acknowledge that there was a lot of racism. Is that actually difficult? R141”

It can be acknowledged of course. Say in 1939 the ENTIRE world was racist and Britain , who was in the middle of paying off all the Slave Trade ownership from over 100 years before 1833 would not pay off that debt till 2015 and after losing 19,000 soldiers to fight slave traders, they were no less racist in 1939 than everyone else in the world ( as opposed to all the fantasists who think somehow that from a 2021 perspective that would have been better in 1939) then you are right.