Did Prince Charles become a better person after Diana died?

Yes. Yes he did. Camilla has been wonderful for him.

That may be the most unflattering picture of Diana that I've ever seen.

"Everyone knows Prince Charles was really an asshole when he was married to Diana: he was cold to her and cheated on her, and said nasty things about her to anyone who was around."

He wasn't an asshole BEFORE she died. DIana always tried to portray him as The Bad One, but he wasn't. SHE was the crazy one. SHE was the promiscuous one.She was the fuck up, not him.

R1 No, Camilla the Soiled benefited from Princess Diana. Had Camilla married Charles in the 70s, they’d have divorced. Diana’s life and tragic death necessitated Charles’ evolution to 3/4 of a real person. You’re welcome, duchess rottweiler.

BOTH things could be true, r3. She could be crazy and he could also be the cold asshole. It doesn't have to be either/or.

And both of them have admitted philandering during their marriage.

How was he an “asshole”? He was forced into a marriage he didn’t want because of his duty to the crown. He has loved Camilla his whole life, in spite of her uggo face. That’s doesn’t sound like an asshole to me. Diana was probably very difficult to live with, as she was suffering from depression and Boarderline personality. Threatening to throw herself down the stairs sounds like some Judy Garland level drama!

He became at peace with himself when he no longer had to live the lie of heterosexuality. He laid low for a while after the divorce, then death. Then mother finally let him marry the beard he always wanted to: Camilla.

Now he's more genial, outgoing, humorous and relaxed.

I've always been sympathetic to Charles (my fellow Scorpio). He was a sensitive child who had a distinctly chilly upbringing, and suffered from heavy criticism and high expectations. Lord Mountbatten (a notoriously promiscuous bisexual) was his mentor in matters of the heart. I think there was far too much pressure on both Charles and Diana for their marriage to succeed.

I think Charles finally found happiness with Camilla, but their relationship really blossomed on 'disturbed ground'.

and Camilla is going to be an excellent queen consort.

(yes, I do believe she will be called Queen Camilla, not The Princess Consort)

I don't know if he's a different person in terms of good or bad, but he's a million, million times happier with Camilla, and it shows in everything he does.

R6 "Boarderline personality"

Oh, dear.

Charles and Camilla should've been allowed to marry in the 70s but unfortunately things were a lot different then.

R6, Big motherly breasts trump a plain face every day and twice on Sundays.

[quote] How was he an “asshole”? He was forced into a marriage he didn’t want because of his duty to the crown.

"Forced"??? He was 33 years old, and of legal age and full emancipation. Had his family tried to exert greater pressure, he could have left them high and dry (he already had an enormous income already from the Duchy of Cornwall his parents cannot touch). If Edward VIII was able to withstand the pressure put on him by his parents to marry a woman of their liking, surely Charles could have.

He chose Diana freely, and asked her to marry him. It was fully his decision as a man in his 30s to propose marriage to her.

R8, Scorpio Frau here, one year younger than Charles. I have always loved him (Anglophile from childhood) and feel that I understand his willful ways and indefatigable desire for another outside the bounds of propriety.

Diana didn't know the ways of a courtesan, but Camilla did and does.

I think Charles has mellowed with age. And he was definitely shaken to the core by Diana's death. But he is probably still quite insufferable not knowing how to tie his own shoes and all. Camilla mother-lover provides the cushiony bosom upon which he lays his head and he probably sleeps like a baby.

How would you feel if you were forced to marry someone you didn't love. Of course he was angry and bitter. Think about how much fun Will is going to be when he finally dumps that dishrag he's married to,

Diana was loved by everyone but her husband. This whole borderline idea started with that vile Christopher Hitchens. Diana was neurotic and troubled and knew how to work the press, but there is no evidence that she was BPD. It's not even called that anymore. She was far too charming and genuinely loving and accomplished and good at being a mother and public servant to be a true borderline personality.

If you haven't seen enough about her life and death, here is a very good documentary. It covers only the time period between her death and funeral. And it paints Charles in a very good light. He fought for her in death. He carried guilt. She didn't make her grievances up. He loved his children and those boys adore their mother to this day. Diana was not mentally ill. Not much more than most of us. She was troubled and adrift. But she had tons of purpose in her life. The collective hysteria at her death was most curious though. Only JFK ever elicited such a response. People had such faith in her goodness.

I’m a Camila frau. She got a raw deal and was unfairly treated by the British press just because she wasn’t Diana. Yes, he is a better person now. He was finally able to marry the woman he loved. His mom screwed him. Camila and Charles’ wedding was a great day in my house. Actual love was on display that day. Arranged marriage never works out. The queen should have known better.

He did manage to do for his son what he couldn't get for himself (being allowed to marry a commoner)

He was said to be really grief stricken and guilty after Diana died and would be up late at night in the palace unable to sleep.

Camilla is an interesting person in her own right, and it seems that she and Charles know how to enjoy their time together without monopolizing each other. She's shown that she's willing to bring attention to some causes that others would prefer to avoid, like rape and sexual abuse.

Diana's death just freed him up to marry Camilla.

People don't want to talk openly about it but the consensus in London has always been that Diana was a fucking loon.

Everything was calculated with her. She tipped off the press when she wanted and planted blind items via friends.

But she suffered from mental illness and nearly took down the Royal Family.

[quote]If Edward VIII was able to withstand the pressure put on him by his parents to marry a woman of their liking, surely Charles could have.

Seriously???

[quote]his hatred of postmodern architecture

You can hardly fault that.

Who knows what he's like behind closed doors, but in the public's eyes, I think it humanized him, making him a more likeable, relatable person to the public. Also, stories came out about what Diana was *really* like, so he probably received vindication in the public's eye that he wasn't entirely the bad guy and she was a handful (mentally ill or not).

Not to drag Harry into this thread, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume that a lot of Harry's current issues stem from how this mother's death was handled, so maybe Charles has a lot to answer for there. But his present action (trying to help Harry, even if it makes him look like a fool) and that his grandkids seem to adore him indicates that he's a better person, but realizes he (probably unwittingly) inflicted a lot of harm on his sons.

Since Diana's death, Charles has put a lot of effort in rehabilitating his public image (and undermining Diana's). It seems to have paid off. Barbara Cartland, Diana's grandmother, said that the Charles-Diana marriage failed because Diana "wouldn't do oral sex." I'd call that an ill-fated relationship.

How different things would be if Diana had clicked her seat belt on.

How different things would be if Diana had clicked her seat belt on.

You know, given the stories of how she was unraveling in the last year of her life, I kind of think she'd still be dead. Maybe she'd walk away from that crash, only to be killed in a boating accident or some other mishap. But I don't think she'd grow to be an old woman any more than I think Harry will grow to be an old man.

She'd be thrice divorced by now and in the middle of another feud with Elton John.

Charles thought he was marrying an aristocratic young woman who would treat marriage the way those of her class always had: as an alliance between families, almost like a job, in which Diana would turn a blind eye on infidelity in return for a crown. Diana was fun, came from a background he understood, and seemed nurturing, in a way that would obviously make her a good mother and in a way that that obviously appeals to him.

Diana thought she was gaining a place in the spotlight, not just in the centre of public life, but in Charles’s life. She came from a “broken home” and craved total acceptance and full attention from her husband. Anything other than total adoration devastated her, and caused her to act out in ways that baffled and shocked her buttoned-up husband.

The tragedy for both of them was that they never really saw beneath the surface of each other, and never realised that they were both very damaged people, each yearning for validation which they were incapable of giving to each other. Beneath her vibrancy and charm Diana yearned for attention and for security which a deeply insecure man like Charles could never give her. Charles was looking for a second mummy to nurture and boost him. That’s why Camilla is perfect for him.

[quote] the Charles-Diana marriage failed because Diana "wouldn't do oral sex."

If only Josh O'Connor could have played Charles in real life.

When he travels he insists he must bring along his own bed and some of his paintings. I'm not saying he's a spoiled brat or anything, though.

Oh ffs, Diana was bonkers and he was born into a situation mostly unimaginable to the rest of us. She practically stalked him and wouldn't take NO for an answer and when she got YES and it didn't turn out to be a Barbara Cartland fairy-tale, Diana went off the deep end. It was doomed from the start. What's extraordinary is how few people saw it from the get-go.

Considering his disaster of a marriage, the ridiculous position he was put in of waiting his entire life for a promotion that, at this point, it is possible will never arrive, he's done all right. I don't think he's changed, he was always interested in land management and conservation, and The Prince's Trust has done exceptionally well. He's also always been surrounded by sycophants. Camilla had the gift that Diana lacked: an instinct for managing Charles and accepting him as he was, rather than constantly berating him for not being the man she fantasised him to be.

The worst you can say about him, in my view, is that he has been a terrible parent, especially to Harry. Robert Lacey's recent entry into the "Let's make another million or so trashing the royals!" sweepstakes is particularly annoying as it spares Charles but throws William under the bus for who Harry became, as if a brother only two years senior and suffering as well from the family drama was responsible for guiding and raising Harry, rather than Charles. Charles is the one who should have been thrown under that particular bus, not William.

People rarely change character, and I don't think Charles has. But he's certainly been chastened by some turns of Fate he never expected.

What does the phrase "a better person" even mean?!

In OP’s photo, Diana reminds me of that Angus kid from “Two and a Half Men”.

I think his PR is better and now that he was allowed to be with Camilla has made him a happier person.

He and Diana were toxic.

He and Csmilla have now been married longer than he and Diana.

[quote] This whole borderline idea started with that vile Christopher Hitchens. Diana was neurotic and troubled and knew how to work the press, but there is no evidence that she was BPD.

Have you read Andrew Morton's book? Newer editions of it begin with all the juicy material he had straight from her mouth gathered together. She freely admits having bulimia for years, cutting herself, suicide attempts to get attention--even flinging herself down the staircase at Sandringham to get his attention when she was four months' pregnant with William (she says the queen herself was the first one who raced to her side, shaking with fear for her and the baby). By her own account (remember, this was the book she cooperated with and approved, although typically she lied about that at first), she was not a mentally or emotionally well woman.

[quote] What does the phrase "a better person" even mean?!

If you're that dumb, you don't deserve an answer.

Sons marry their mother-

Nope, same old strange, pathetic asshole...he's just gotten old and tired and can't be bothered anymore. He's just waiting patiently for the prize.

Unless they marry a conniving dried up prune, R39. Like Will did.

R26, All the married lovers Diana had? Don't make me larf, Barbara Cartland!

R33, What?! Diana didn't "stalk" Charles! (For true stalking, see: Middleton, Catherine.) Moreover, wanting marital fidelity is not considered the equivalent of a wanting a "fairy-tale" relationship.

Camilla's a doormat. If he truly loved her, he would have married her the first time around. He wanted the crown more than he wanted her. Most other woman would have moved on, but she didn't. There's nothing romantic about terrible self esteem. Harry sees through her. Will doesn't care because he's done his own shit with Middleton.

I give Camilla credit for having to look at those blackened toe nail, swollen bags he calls his feet every night though.

[quote] He wanted the crown more than he wanted her.

Who wouldn't?

How the fk would Barbara Cartland know if Diana smoked a bone or not? Come ON! She was probably a voracious hoover. Diana probably only pooped gold too and never had that plantar wart Fergie dished about.

I think he did. He and Diana should never have married. It was simply not a love match. A marriage entered into because of pressure from others rarely works in the long run. Their marriage was more a business agreement than anything else. He married her primarily so she could provide him with an heir to the throne.

He married her because she was a virgin with the right breeding. She was like a fking unicorn in 1979 Britain. And he had to get her @ 19 even then. By 1980 he would full on have needed to troll middle school dorms to find a virgin.

The Duke and Duchess of Cornhole!

As I understand it, the wife of the heir to the throne had to be a virgin. In Britain. In the late 1970s/early 1980s. It was a ridiculously outdated rule and in line with r48 said Diana was one of maybe three women in the entire country who fit the bill.

[quote] Charles thought he was marrying an aristocratic young woman who would treat marriage the way those of her class always had: as an alliance between families, almost like a job, in which Diana would turn a blind eye on infidelity in return for a crown.

"the way those of her class always had"??

Charles's grandmother was from that same class, and her husband never cheated on her. She never would have tolerated it. Why should he have expected Diana (who was also an earl's daughter) would have been any different?

Don't make up excuses for rich people's misbehavior.

[quote] Camilla's a doormat. If he truly loved her, he would have married her the first time around. He wanted the crown more than he wanted her.

From everything I've read, she didn't want him then--she wanted Andrew Parker-Bowles, who was then considered the sexiest young man in the UK.

"The Crown" made it seem like they were doomed lovers cruelly manipulated by Lord Mountbatten and the Queen Mother, but in the early 70s Charles and Camilla really wanted different things, and though they were attracted to each other, they both moved on of their own accord. Only later did they start moving back.

Diana was mentally unbalanced and would've had problems no matter what. Even if she'd been an anonymous housewife in the country there would've been issues and drama.

Didn't Camilla want to marry Andrew Parker-Bowles rather than Charles?

I don't think C&C were star crossed lovers when young. She wanted AP-B and Charles went on his way. Recent tales of them being forbidden to marry when young - I'm not sure that was true.

I do think Diana was too young and was clueless about the man she was marrying. She pretended to love the things he did (country life) before the wedding, but changed after they were married.

Even beforehand there were people who were dubious about that marriage - including her grandmother and the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Is he a better person now than he was? - I hope so since he's had decades of life. Have all his unpleasant traits gone? - No. But I do think his marriage to C has made him much much more happy.

Camilla will not be Queen Consort. She's still not that well liked. That would never be accepted.

"He chose Diana freely, and asked her to marry him. It was fully his decision as a man in his 30s to propose marriage to her."

He chose her because he was being pressured by his family to get married. And here was this attractive 19 year old girl, tall, good hips, who seemed besotted with him. It seemed like a good idea at the time. But it was no love story. It was indeed a "semi-arranged' marriage. Charles thought she'd probably make him a good wife (as wrong he was), so he married her. She agreed to marry him because she was in love with the idea of being married to the Prince of Wales. Later she got cold feet but her siblings told her it was too late, "you face is on the tea towels." Of course she STILL could have called it off, but didn't have strength to do that. So they got married. And it was the biggest mistake Charles made in his life. It was a mistake for Diana too, but I think her biggest mistake in life was getting involved with Dodi Fayed, which resulted in her death.

Her biggest mistake was dismissing her Royal security team, who are some of the best in the world.

Charles proposed to other women before Diana who were not virgins (I assume) so I don’t think it was a requirement, more like please pick someone who doesn’t have a “past” that will get out in the press. Anyway, Camilla wanted to marry Andrew Parker Bowles in the 70s. Charles was “forced” to marry Diana in the same way millions of couples are forced, by society and family pressure. I don’t believe he was cold-hearted about it, he cared about her and hoped they could build a life together. Had Diana been older, I believe they could have been happy. But she was so young and insecure, she fixated on Camilla to an unhealthy degree. Had she been more strategic, created less drama, shown a bit more of the charming, lighthearted girl pre-marriage, she could have seen Camilla and the others off. But we often need to go through a few bad relationships before we learn how to be a successful partner.

There are photos of Diana with Charles where she looks ill at ease as hell. Her body language is all tense and stiff. In those photos of them together where she's wearing the unflattering blue off the rack suit from Harrods and her giant engagement ring she looked, as one critic said, "plump and uncomfortable." When asked if they were "in love" she ducked her head and made a grimace before automatically saying "of course." Charles said "whatever "in love" means." Boy, was the marriage of these two destined to fail! You could see that from the outset.

Diana was hardly plump in the engagement video. And for quite a while she held up very well under the pressure of the media and that goddamn ridiculous wedding parade/ pageant. Because she was so young and emotionally stunted she just trusted everyone that all was well and she towed the line. I do think they tried to get her help and she did come into her own power as she aged. But she was mercurial and spoiled and careless too. All these led to her eventual undoing.

"Diana was hardly plump in the engagement video."

Yes, she was. Her face was very rounded and full. And her ill-fitting suit accentuated that she was, well, fleshy. She looked like she still had her baby fat. I guess she did. She was only 19. While not exactly fat, she did look like she could have lost a few pounds.

You're so right, R61! Thanks ever so much for pointing that out to me.

R38 - And if you're that unable to define a vague trendy phrase you used, then you are not only profoundly stupid, but a coward, as well.

Lord Mountbatten was quite handsome when he was young.

What is R44 raving on about? Charles didn't have to choose between Camilla and the crown, you dill. She was a perfectly acceptable choice, had he chosen her. But he didn't, and she married AP-B, whom she was dating at the time, after all.

I know they went on with all that palaver about Diana being tested to ensure she was a virgin, but that was because they could. In Camilla's case I'm sure they'd just have said nothing. All they had to ensure was that she wasn't already pregnant before the wedding, because you have to ensure the heir has the true bloodline.

Also, I have a bridge I'd like to sell R18. "Good at being a mother" - you have to be kidding. Apart from anything else, have you not read this?

I like "Csmilla." It fits her.

Charles dithered over marrying Camilla in the 70s, she lost patience and married Andrew Parker Bowles.

Although Camilla will technically earn the title Queen Consort when (if) Charles ascends to the throne, a statement was released when they married she would become PRINCESS Consort. Clarence House reiterated this earlier this years when there were false reports Charles was pushing for her to be titled Queen Consort.

Charles will not be able to afford attracting any ill will when his beloved (by the world, hopefully him as well) mother dies. Diana fanatics are fewer than they were when Charles and Camilla got married, but the British tabloids would rake them across the coals for reneging on a promise that probably shouldn't have been made in the first place.

The Diana fanatics aren't what they used to be, it's been too many years for people to still be so passionate. And of course there is a whole generation of adults who are too young to even remember her.

[quote] Charles proposed to other women before Diana who were not virgins (I assume) so I don’t think it was a requirement, more like please pick someone who doesn’t have a “past” that will get out in the press.

She got a medical checkup before her marriage at the behest of the palace to ensure she was a virgin.

How archaic. Doesn't the palace know that the presence or lack there of of a hymen means nothing?

How can you tell if a woman is a virgin?

Sometimes a person will bring out the best in you, and sometimes a person will bring out the best in you. Sometimes it coincides with maturity.

A guy I know was messed up with a woman and they wound up doing heroin and thieving to support the habit. He got clean, met a terrific woman and he’s been clean and productive and if you didn’t know, you’d never guess. Not that you can blame or credit someone else with your actions, exactly, but there might be some sort of motivation.

R72 Most women have a thin membrane that is only broken during the first sexual encounter. Diana had a checkup pre-marriage (as did Grace Kelly) but that was really to check for fertility. A difficult thing to determine for sure, but just to confirm there are not any obvious impediments to child bearing.

Grace Kelly was a whore. A fat faced dirty blonde cocksucking whore. She'd seen more dick than a urinal. Hymen? She rode doorknobs for christ sake. And lots and lots of OLD men enjoyed her. I never got the appeal or her at all. Average pretty blonde with a very affected manner. A whore.

“Give me the boy until the age of seven and I will give you the man.” —Aristotle

Leave it to Datalounge to find the one person still holding a grudge against Grace Kelly.

" Thanks ever so much for pointing that out to me."

Take it easy, Diana. Nobody said you were unattractive. Must you take inconsequential utterances so seriously? You should really try to develop more self confidence.

Lord Mountbatten wanted to marry Maria Romanov, the daughter of the doomed Russian Czar Nicholas II and his strong-willed but weak-witted wife Alexandra. Actually, Nicky was pretty weak-witted so, which no doubt contributed to the ghastly end of his family and some faithful servants. They were all herded into a cellar and shot, stabbed and bludgeoned to death. Mountbatten was besotted with Maria, who was the prettiest of the Romanov daughters and ripe for love and marriage. She was so eager for sex and love that she was caught in a compromising position with one of the Russian soldiers who were guarding her and her family. which horrified her mother and her sister Tatiana. At any rate, Mountbatten longed after her and may well have married her if she hadn't been killed. He kept a picture of her at this bedside the rest of his life, so it's been said.

Mount batten was an old bugger. Probably got off on hearing second hand details of how Charles de flowered Di.

Was Mountbatten the one that asploded?

[quote] Mount batten was an old bugger. Probably got off on hearing second hand details of how Charles de flowered Di.

That would have been a miracle, given that he was entirely dead and buried by that time.

Charles only asked Lady Diana Spencer out after she told him at a party how sad and lonely he looked on TV during Mountbatten's funeral in 1979, and she stayed a virgin until their wedding night in 1981.

[quote] Actually, Nicky was pretty weak-witted so, which no doubt contributed to the ghastly end of his family and some faithful servants.

It was [italic]just ghastly,[/italic] it really was.

Mountbatten would have approved of Diana, though: he told Charles to sow as many wild oats as he liked and then marry a sweet, malleable, dutiful type to carry on the bloodline.

Diana would have fooled Lord Louis just as she did everyone else until she got the ring on her finger and found out that her husband wasn't a knight in shining armour, but a thoroughly human male used to a highly privileged and entrenched way of life that she pretended to fit into admirably whilst pursuing him, and then got angry with when, after the wedding, he naturally expected her to keep fitting into instead of attending to her endless emotional needs 24/7.

Diana fooled everyone except her grandmother, Lady Fermoy; the Archbishop of Canterbury; a couple of Charles' friends; and possibly the Queen, who assessed Diana as a "bolter" (a headstrong horse that took off when the mood seized it) but who, as usual, kept her mouth shut and bowed to the inevitable.

Oh, wait: that story line sounds oddly current . . .

First I've heard of the story about Grand Duchess Maria. Of course, you have to bear in mind the familial ties between the Windsors and the Romanovs - that would have been quite a blending of ye olde bloodlines . . .

Maybe if Lord Louis had pulled it off, Harry wouldn't have been so ignorant of the fact that he's related to the Romanovs . . .