Why do we need film festivals? The film festival is dead.

Even before Covid, film festivals were in trouble. Their demographics were awful...no one under 40 gives a shit about a film festival.

And, I've worked for film festivals and believe me, they're all very worried about the future. Well, except for the ones who refuse to admit there's a problem.

The only one that ever appealed to me was Sundance.

[Quote] Even before Covid, film festivals were in trouble. Their demographics were awful...no one under 40 gives a shit about a film festival.

Why was that? Just one reason off the top of your head is fine.

The film festival is dead because 90% of current films are moronic garbage.

I don’t give a shit about international film festivals that do the phoney glitz.

Yet I absolutely adore the smaller film fests that offer independent films that are quirky and more entertainment than the sanitized offerings that head to main screens with major editing done to them.

Like the numerous awards ceremonies, film festivals were just another way the old style film industry had invented as marketing events and never updated as they were in trouble before Covid hit. But in 2020 and especially when we get to the post-Covid world - things will have changed so much that many of these marketing events will just be pointless and disappear.

Soon streaming services will kill the "old style Hollywood" film industry and theaters anyway. Theaters are already dead in the water.

Like R5 says - small film festivals will become much more popular.

The major festivals are where press, distribution and other industry deals are made. What will replace this venue? Where will a production company go to meet with multiple prospects.

The production companies will meet with multiple prospects at private parties supplied with drugs and prostitutes.

Filmmaker here. I can tell you from experience that film fests have been in danger for quite some time. My first tour of the fest circuit was in 1999 and my most recent was 2015 and the popularity, interest and attendance has definitely waned. I've traveled the world on four festival tours with my work and the audiences are smaller, the venues less prestigious and the press coverage is non-existent for all but the biggest fests. Anything less than A-list is pretty much gasping for their last breaths.

I'm also a long time festival goer (or I was) and I think one of the big reasons the fest circuit is not as popular anymore is because the sense of urgency is just not there anymore. It used to be that you got to see films that might not get a distribution deal, either for some time or not at all. Your local film fests might be the only place to see them ever. This was especially important for festivals that programmed specialty films or films of a particular culture. But with streaming, there's very little chance that if you miss a film at a festival you won't be able to find it online within the year. Put that together with the drop in press and coverage and you'll find a lot of empty seats.

I remember being pleasantly surprised at how many screenings my first film had in very large venues across the country where the houses were sold out or close to being so, and this was a film with no stars and no fanfare. Fests were making money, they were treating filmmakers like royalty and flying them in and putting them up. This no longer happens unless you're famous. My last festival tour I had to pay my own travel (or part of it) if I wanted to attend. I like going to festivals with my work. I like to know how it plays for an audience and how it plays similarly or differently in different areas. I like meeting fans of my work and I like making new ones because they're the ones who will support you down the line.

I will say that it's also a lot harder to get one's work into a festival these days and the days of blind submissions are pretty much over. If you have a feature and you want to get it into even B-list festivals, you need a festival agent who is out there hawking your film and getting it into the proper hands for consideration. I won't go onto the circuit these days without one. The upside to this (besides being programmed more) is that you get screening fees, which you would never get if you were repping your own film. I had a film that played the circuit for a year worldwide and I made six figures in screening fees. I had to split it 50/50 with my festival agent, but I also didn't have to do a fucking thing. They take care of all the submissions, the negotiations, the placement in the festival, etc, etc. I only had to step in twice to do battle with a few festival assholes.

Because of this competition, you're seeing fewer and fewer films (and filmmakers) that 20 years ago might have been able to break in with something bold or audacious while having no connections. And because festivals are programming movies that are likely getting deals, it takes away the urgency of seeing them in a festival setting, which takes us full circle.

After COVID, though- who knows if the circuit will survive? So many other businesses are dying or dead, I wouldn't be surprised to see all the smaller, C-level or under fests gone for good, and half the B-levels done for, as well.

R9: Interesting observations. Any hope that the European festivals may fare better than you suggest in your last paragraph?

The problem with the festivals, like awards shows, is that there are way too many now.

The product has been cheapened, the cache is long gone (with both) and people have lost interest.

I think trade shows will replace film festivals. All industry. Shoppers. Buyers. Booths. Receptions. No celebs. Little media. That’s how most deals get made in other industries from pharma and biotech to consumer electronics and computers.

Assuming that the point is to get distribution deals as opposed to splashy premieres.

The average film festival is a niche or regional affair that provides a platform for independently made movies and shorts that no one would see otherwise. They generate distribution deals if only from streaming sites and get attention to people. I periodically get tp attend one of the major regionals and it's gotten bigger each time. The documentary film festival that AFI runs in DC has gotten bigger and more influential every year.

OP is an idiot, but we know that already.

We need film festivals to show films that would never be distributed locally.

We need film festivals to give up-and-coming directors a chance to show their work to the public.

And most of all, we need film festivals so that I could tell a well-known Australian director who was sitting directly behind me and talking non-stop to "give it a rest, mate. I came to your bloody film, not listen to you yammer".

[Quote] OP is an idiot, but we know that already.

Oh.

[quote] [R9]: Interesting observations. Any hope that the European festivals may fare better than you suggest in your last paragraph?

Honestly, I don't know how European small businesses are faring as opposed to US ones, so I couldn't really say, and I'm not sure about the widespread availability of films on international streaming as opposed to US. (My distributors had to make separate deals for different regions - i.e. just because my film was on, say, Netflix or iTunes or Prime, etc. in one country doesn't mean it's available all over.) But in terms of the drop in attendance at Euro fests, I would say they are having some of the same issues as US fests in that the smaller, more regional ones are having problems sustaining patronage.

I've been on the board of directors of a major international film festival for 15 years, and i think R14 (besides me) is the only one who actually knows what a film festival is.

[quote] I've been on the board of directors of a major international film festival for 15 years, and i think [R14] (besides me) is the only one who actually knows what a film festival is.

Then it must be true that people outside of the US are 15 years behind the times because that's what a festival was before streaming took over.

Aren’t some of them there to get financing for films, like distribution?

There is still a point in showcasing films Netflix and Hollywood studios would never greenlight.

[quote] Aren’t some of them there to get financing for films, like distribution?

Yes, but not in any of the B-list or lower fests. Distribution deals just don't happen there. The exception might be for a specialized ancillary label like Breaking Glass (or any lower level horror companies) or a company like Gravitas that may or may not do a tiny theatrical but is also amassing a library they can license to pay cable and streamers.

[quote] There is still a point in showcasing films Netflix and Hollywood studios would never greenlight.

No one is arguing that, but the FACT is that those movies will likely be available to view in your own home at some point thanks to services like Amazon Prime, iTunes, Vudu, etc. so the necessity of a film festival as the only place to see indies that may not get a shot in theaters has fallen by the wayside.

R21 you're better off releasing yourself than doing someone like Breaking Glass.

Oh I agree. I was just using them as an example of a company that might pick up a film from a lower level festival.

I miss festivals. Best part of summer. Cannes, Frontieres, FrightFest, Venice.

[Quote] I can tell you from experience that film fests have been in danger for quite some time.

That's the major reason I got out of the festival business.

R9, thank you very much for your intel about your experience as a filmmaker talent for film festivals. I myself attend a few as a filmgoer and I fear you may be on to something. One thing, there are way too many film festivals, which dilute the exclusivity of certain cache films, especially those that will be Oscar bound. I never understood why some films felt the need to be seen at Cannes, Venice, TIFF, NYFF, and LFF - I excluded Telluride because they have a very special festival that will be impervious to the future shift in film festivals.

I think film festivals can survive if they not so much focus on Oscar bait films, and instead use the festivals to showcase upcoming/future A-list talent that can really spark more life into film festivals. I'll never forget the insane bullshit of when Brad and Angelina attended TIFF together, my ears are still ringing from that craziness. There's a lot of talent bubbling under the A-list radar that are just as beautiful, sexy and talented and it can be a mutually beneficial relationship in helping to promote those instead of the certified A-listers. This is just my opinion as someone who has attended film festivals in Toronto, London, NY, Palm Springs and LA.

All the big film festivals are in heavy competition with each other which is also backfiring.

R3 Younger people (Millennials and younger) are used to watching their media on phones and pads and laptops and on their TV monitors. They really don't care much or have the need to see films in a cinema unless it's a big, splashy FX movie.

The filmmaker at R9 is one of the very few authentic voices on this thread...thanks for sharing your story.

R13 is actually the idiot. Films don't need festivals to get "seen". If you're lucky, maybe 100 or 200 people show up for your screening at a festival, if you're lucky (at your average festival; at the handful of major festivals it would hopefully be more than that but there's really only about 10 big fests). Thanks to new media and online platforms, tiny indie films are far more likely to reach a larger audience than they would at the Kansas City Film Festival.

R17 You are about 15 years out of date, pal.

Award shows are also dying. Again, the younger generations don't give a shit about awards or festivals. Covid is a straw that is going to break a lot of festival backs. It's going to out and out kill some of them and others are going to scale back.

Oh, and my credentials: worked at a major US festival for many years AND worked festivals as both press and sponsor AND gone to festivals with a film I worked on. And, know many, many people who have worked festivals all over the world. Festivals are fucked.

R27 = Humphrey Bogart

R28 That doesn't make any sense. Is it an "old" crack? Because only another old person would reference Humphrey Bogart.

Film festivals made a lot of money collecting submission fees for movies they never even screen. Its all about who you know.

[quote] Film festivals made a lot of money collecting submission fees for movies they never even screen. Its all about who you know.

Oh yeah, for sure. Not to take over the thread or anything, but this happened to me as well. I had a film that I had started out submitting on my own while I was trying to land my festival rep. I should have just waited, but I wanted to hit certain places and we didn't have a deal in place yet. Anyway, one of the fests I submitted to on my own was SIFF (the Seattle Film Festival). I submitted on my own early on in their call for entries, paid the fee, then wound up cutting 13 min out of the film and asked if I could re-submit, which they allowed, and which required an additional fee.

Never heard a word from them.

Cut to four months later. I've got the festival rep, they're chugging away for me, submitting and getting me play dates. One day I get a call from my rep and he says to me- I was talking to the head of SIFF and I told him about your movie and he wants to see it (at this point, DVD screeners were the preferred submission method), so I'm going to get him a screener, but I have to overnight it, is that okay?

I said- they have my movie. In fact, they have two copies. Go ahead and send it, but they already have it. He follows up with them... there's no record of my film having been submitted- either time- and no trace of either screener. But you can bet my submission fees had cleared ages ago. Seattle is a solid B level fest. It has vestiges of prestige left, still gets decent (though waning) coverage, but you're unlikely to score a distribution deal there. In short, they're far too reputable to be pulling shit like that, or so I thought.

Whither the yacht girls of Cannes?

You can see lotsa dongs and sex in non-pr0n films at film festivals. So they still have some redeeming values for me. Moreover, festivals are great as cruising grounds too, even though they might not offer much if you are fat and not pretty.

A friend got an award at a festival - then found out her film was not even screened at all!

WHAAAAT? That's crazy!!

Replies like [R9]'s is what make DL what it is. We'll occasionally have an erudite, balanced and sane statement about something. If this were print media, some functionally illiterate bean counter would've returned [R9]'s reply, because it didn't have enough of a 'feel good' factor.

^ Not sure if I understand why you think print media would require a feel-good factor.

well R18 perhaps you'd like to inform our 20,000 plus attendees and 7500 plus submissions from all over the planet that they are wasting their time. also the 10 plus OSCAR, BAFTA and Canadian Film Awards that we nominate that go on to win every year.

It's over r38. Major festivals are desperately trying to morph to online to survive. It is just an empty shell now that one cannot attend in person. The thrill of a screening is gone. Frankly organizing and running a festival is even more of a snore though.

R38 is the guy standing on the tilting deck of the Titanic screaming "But, it's unsinkable!!! And, every seat was filled at dinner!!!"

R38 is likely talking about Toronto. It's already been established that we are not talking about the Top 10 Film Fests around the world. Sundance, Cannes, Berlin, Toronto, New York, etc. will likely emerge unscathed. This is about the hundreds upon hundreds of other festivals that have been losing juice over the past decade.

But R38 knows this and is still pushing his agenda. Why, i'm not sure.

R41 Because they're a tiresome old fart who can't face the truth.

And, Sundance isn't the power house it used to be; popular with hipsters but not as vital as they were in the 90s. And, New York's film fests have some ninor star wattage but they're not the slightest bit important to the business. It's really only Toronto, Cannes, Berlin (all major film MARKET events). Venice still has some prestige being the oldest plus the glamour of Venice. Telluride used to be very chic for being small, intimate and hard to get to. SXSW is more music but is useful for debuting "hip" movies. For end of year awards show attention, Palm Springs and Santa Barbara are still important, at least for the stars vying for awards. Both of those festivals are in small cities with large populations of rich old people very happy to spend big bucks for opportunities to hobnob with major talent.

[Quote] the Top 10 Film Fests around the world. Sundance, Cannes, Berlin, Toronto, New York, etc. will likely emerge unscathed.

I doubt that very much.

From another thread

^

Dozens of filmmakers have signed an open letter, including Judd Apatow, Barry Jenkins, Sofia Coppola, Clint Eastwood and Wes Anderson

Dozens of prominent filmmakers have signed an open letter warning the US Congress that physical cinemas face extinction.

Jordan Peele, Greta Gerwig, Clint Eastwood, Lulu Wang, Martin Scorsese and more have signed an appeal for additional pandemic relief in light of the ongoing COVID-19 crisis.

The letter comes in light of a looming threat to physical cinemas, as AMC, the largest cinema chain in the US, said in June it could go out of business following a record loss of $2.4 billion in the first quarter of the year.

“Cinemas are an essential industry that represent the best that American talent and creativity have to offer. But now we fear for their future,” the letter began, per The Hollywood Reporter.

“Our country cannot afford to lose the social, economic and cultural value that theaters provide. The moviegoing experience is central to American life. Theaters are great unifiers where our nation’s most talented storytellers showcase their cinematic accomplishments.”

The letter went on to highlight that cinemas “support millions of jobs in movie production and distribution, and countless others in surrounding restaurants and retailers that rely on theaters for foot traffic.

“Cinemas are an essential industry that represent the best that American talent and creativity have to offer. But now we fear for their future,” the letter began, per The Hollywood Reporter

Honestly, I wouldn't give a shit if movie theaters went the way of the dodo. Most of what comes out of Hollywood, and even independents, is absolute shit, and the moviegoing experience has been ruined by people who don't know how to behave. Outside of going to revival houses, I'd say I maybe go to the movies 3-5 times a year. In 2019 I think I went six times, and three of those were to my neighborhood AMC for Sunday morning matinees where the price was lower and I walked both ways so I could get some extra exercise.

Cannes didn't happen this year and it is my impression that no one gave a shit.

Cannes is a market. Its only for press and industry. Cinema fans can’t buy tickets for a screening.

Another filmmaker here and I've gone the festival route a few times. I did end up getting a distribution deal out of it for one of my movies. It was a smaller company than specialized in movies like mine and it's been quite a few years since they released it and I haven't seen a dime. Most distributors are like that. Honestly, I think you're better off saving the money you'll spend on film festival fees (as many have said, you never get these back and some are as expensive as $50-$100 a submission), hiring a PR company to get you press, and distributing it yourself on Amazon.

One of my films that got distributed had pretty decent marketing so even if I wasn't making any money off of it, at least I knew they were trying to get it seen. Another film that was put out by a distributor was literally thrown out without any major announcements or warnings or even a decent trailer and they had the nerve to say the film never made money because their marketing costs were never recouped. What marketing?

As for festivals themselves, I've been to some that were decently attended, but I've never seen a packed house at any screening unless it has a big name star in the film or in attendance. Some have been just plain sad with 2 or 3 people in attendance. SXSW and Sundance are still the two biggies, but the odds of getting in there without a big name star in your film are slim. That's what's really killed these festivals is that, now, they're not really showing true indie films. If your film can afford someone some Marvel actor, you're not an indie filmmaker.

New York LGBTQ Film Festival Sets ‘Brokeback Mountain’ Live Read With All-Trans Cast

^ are those performers transvestites? Are they just reading? No sex scenes?

I love festivals, but they're more for networking and seeing industry friends than anything else. I should be in Austin right now.

R47 didn't Cannes happen online?

When theaters close, what will festivals fare?

“Cineworld, which owns the Regal cinema and Picturehouse chains, is understood to be preparing to announce plans to close all its 127 theatres in the UK as soon as Monday. It is also closing all its 536 Regal cinemas in the US. Cineworld employed 37,000 people globally before the pandemic, with 5,500 in the UK.

“The premiere of the new 007 flick, No Time To Die, has been twice postponed, from April when cinemas were shuttered to 12 November, and now to April 2021, in a big blow to the cinema industry.

The company, the world’s second-biggest cinema operator, has written to Boris Johnson and the culture secretary, Oliver Dowden, this weekend to warn them that the industry has become “unviable”.

Film studios are postponing blockbuster releases because audience numbers have been slow to recover since the Covid-19 outbreak. Other releases that have been pushed into 2021 include Disney’s Black Widow and Steven Spielberg’s West Side Story.

Disney has pushed back all Star Wars and Avatar film releases scheduled between 2021 and 2027 by one year, which means there will be no Avatar 2 next year and no new Star Wars movie in 2022.

[quote] Soon streaming services will kill the "old style Hollywood" film industry and theaters anyway.

Streaming services are getting a lot of help right now, and you better not forget it. I might come after you next.

R54 Does anyone really believe we'll get an Avatar 2? Who the fuck is asking for this, James Cameron?!?!

How will covid affect remakes and action films, the two staples I'd the studios? Thots?

I can almost see all this COVID stuff being good for the indie film scene. After all, a lot of indie films have much smaller casts and crews than big Hollywood films. Having been on both types of sets, indie is definitely the preferred way to go. It seems like you're always going on an indie set and there's not a lot of down time. You finish a scene and immediately move the lights to another part of the location and start another scene. Hollywood movies have so many people on their sets are aren't doing anything. No film needs 20 P.A.s who will mostly just be standing around all day.

With the smaller casts and crews, more indie films could get made during this time. Hollywood's been due for another late 60's-esque self destruction for a long time now. I wouldn't mind if it went back to the way it was in the 70's with lots of young talent being seen.

R58 That is precisely where I was going with r57. Come to think of it, it's not just the introspection of the covid era but the end of the age of Harvey that could lead to indies again. And not just small budget studio films.

Harvey really might have helped in killing indies. His non-indie films were always usually shown at the big film festivals first, pushing out all the real indie movies.

With COVID still everywhere and many film shoots having to take extra precautions, I think Hollywood will end up making less and less films as this goes on and streaming sites will be hungry for content very soon. This could be a great time for indies to pounce. I've already heard of some indie films playing in theaters during this pandemic because theaters are thirsty for films to play and they'd usually never be able to get their films in there pre-COVID. Too many screens are always being used for whatever crappy live action Disney remake is currently playing.

[Quote] Harvey really might have helped in killing indies.

I think so too. He and producers, like watsisname Schamus pushed out the indies with smaller budget studio films.

At least James Schamus has good taste.