Roseanne vs Ellen

I'm gonna guess Roseanne. I don't doubt that Ellen was huge bitch, but Roseanne had the number 1 show in America, and she's pretty much admitted it went to her head.

Roseanne. Ellen’s a cunt, but Roseanne is a monster. And insane to boot.

Im thinking Ellen. If only because of context. In the 90's during Roseannes height being abusive was sort of normal. Ellen was an asshole, after gay rights were won and so much self- awareness in the media. The ugly lesbi was still being petty.

Roseanne. Roseanne was insane. The writers had numbers and she would call their numbers and tell them they were fired.

Roseanne.

DeGengeres would, the source alleges, even leave what she describes as “traps” for staff to trip them up, such as intentionally placing a matchstick behind a cupboard door to confirm that every inch of the property was dusted daily.

“My belief is that someone’s real personality comes out at home,” the former worker told Daily Mail. “Ellen was the worst person that I’ve ever met in my life. She takes pleasure in firing people.”

Ellen. She grew up with the privilege of being at least middle class and blonde and thin. Not exactly gorgeous, but she was somewhat attractive. She seems to be like a Nellie Olsen mean as a snake because she could get away with it. Haughty, entitled, arrogant.

Roseanne was poor and heavy and not attractive. She at least knows what it is to have those disadvantages. She might have been a cunt, but she created something out of nothing, and it was good for a long time. Not that it gives her a right to be a jerk, exactly, but it does. It was her creation and she was being exacting. Insane, chaotic.

I would say Ellen only because Roseanne was pretty transparent with her nastiness, whereas Ellen is very passive-aggressive and seems to have her minions fire people.

R7, Roseanne was middle class

How many jews do you know that are really poor? Come on now.

Doesn't this Diva Bitch deserve a mention here?!

Ellen made it in the buisness on her own accord. She wasn't in the "tribe" and didnt get breaks on that like Roseanne did

Is this really going to turn into a Jew baiting thread? Do you really think that Roseanne got breaks in the industry because she's Jewish?

Nazis are so fucking stupid

R12, most of tptb in show buisness are jewish even moreso back then.

Her being jewish had something to do with it.

Oh, fuck off R11. Roseanne definitely had to fight her way in. Her show, despite being a hit from day one, almost didn't make it past 13 episodes because of the production company and the network taking credit from her and screwing with her vision and making her life hell. No doubt in my mind she was difficult to work with, but she was difficult because she was an artist and a trailblazer. Fastforward 30 years, and now the media cheered as the executives stole her show from her as they'd been trying to do for decades.

Yeah, she's fucking nuts, but she's one of the greatest of all time. Some of us still love you, Rosey!

R14, Her show almost didnt make it past 13 episodes because she was a toxic monserous asshole. You know she was bad if the network almost pulled the plug on a number one show

R14 A great deal of truth in what you're saying.

R15 I'm sure she was. She also fought to not have a generic family sitcom like everyone else had at the time. No way would we still be talking about her show 30 years if she had let the execs turn it into a white Cosby show like they wanted to. I have to respect her guts.

to add to what r14 said, it wasn't just the execs who wanted to change her show, the know it all Harvard educated writers did too, she had to fight every step of the way

IIRC, Roseanne's main targets were the writers. They were all from upper middle-class backgrounds and quite a few were Ivy League and they just weren't familiar with working class people and it showed in the writing. Roseanne was always butting heads with them because she thought a lot of what they wrote was inauthentic and insulting to working class people. It was her show and her creation and she had every right to do that. I don't recall hearing about Roseanne ever being a nuclear bitch to her show's crew and support staff, unlike Ellen.

R17, the show was good because of Tom Arnold. You can see Rodeanne's real vison in the last two seasons and it was horrible.

R17, the show was good because of Tom Arnold. You can see Rodeanne's real vison in the last two seasons and it was horrible.

Roseanne created a masterpiece -well several seasons, anyway. She told us regular folk you could be fat and weird and still be on TV . And the American ppl responded to that. Ellen was passive- aggressive in her bullshit.

R19, Roseanne abused her stand in as well. And everybody else on set not jist the writers.

I think the hysteria and fallout from Roseanne's Tweet was ridiculous and a total overreaction. She didn't deserve that.

I have no doubt she's nuts and she can be difficult, but she still didn't deserve what happened to her.

At least Roseanne was funny.

As crazy as they were together, Roseanne and Tom did lead the show in its best seasons and thank God Roseanne fought for her show. She may have been a pain in the ass but there's a reason why her show stood out because people related to the show. They saw themselves in the characters. A watered down version of Roseanne favoured by the network would not have had the same reaction.

I think that's a reason why the reboot was so successful from the start. Not just because of nostalgia but people were not really seeing working class people in comedies since the original Roseanne.

R24 thank you for saying so!

Roseanne was not an Insider Jew. Maybe she got a foot in the door, that’s it. She still had to come up with the goods. She didn’t make her schtick about being Jewish at all.

I agree that Roseanne was upfront about being loud and unpleasant. Ellen and her fake sunny bullshit is sneaky and snakey.

R28, She abused and threatened her writers to “come up with the goods” she didn’t do it herself

R24 Agreed. Roseanne was a victim of the self-righteous SJW's and their witch hunts.

I love Roseanne. The TV show. Sometimes life gets hard and you can't pay the light bill. And the shitheads turn off the electricity. Roseanne got that.

I used to watch Roseann’s show when it first came on. I wouldn’t watch the reboot though.

I’ve never been able to watch Ellen’s show for more than a few minutes. She has always seemed like a big phony to me, but then people who pat themselves on the back for being “kind” always are phony.

The most Ellen has been accused of is not talking to staffers At least she didn’t degrade them and abuse them like Rosey did

The guy from a different world said he saw Roseanne throw an old school phone at someone’s head.

One chews the scenery, the other just munches the carpet.

Ellen didn’t get her own show until she had been in the business for 15 years. Roseanne got hers within five years.

During Roseanne's first show she was working with an undiagnosed illness which may explain some of her behavior. Although I'm not so sure if she's much better now.

Roseanne got flowers when she was presented im some show with ABC executives. Jerry Seinfeld got a flashy car that same year

All the Rosanne-Jewish-conspiracy posts are from the same poster - the creator of the thread

R33 Roseanne's Halloween party that year.

R36, Roseanne was on her way down and had already begun the process of destroying her show and being a hideous person to everyone around her.

Of course nice guy Jerry got more.

Watching a few episodes of the Conners made me realize how obnoxious and unnecessary Roseanne actually was on her own namesake show.

I'm digging the new wig.

I just don't believe Roseanne is a racist, it goes against everything we know about her, I really believe her when she said she believed the woman was white. However, she shouldn't have been given a show again because she already had a habit of being a drug addict who believes every batshit crazy theory out there. She's funny and totally deserved her original success but it doesn't change what she has become.

Ellen is just boring to me, a total celebrity ass kisser like Fallon or someone

[quote] I just don't believe Roseanne is a racist, it goes against everything we know about her,

Knew about her. Like many fraus her age, she turned an ugly corner after FOX News brainwashing and Obama, and she is now full deplorable. I'm not even going to bother asking if she is all-in on that QAnon train, as she already fits the classic profile of somebody who is.

Ellen is a nice New Orleans girl. I like her more.

ABC were really dumb not to put a "no social media" clause into Roseanne's contract. Basically, "you can't do the show unless you give up Twitter." Given Roseanne's history of insane behavior, they should've done that.

R46, Twitter was where she riled up the Trump yards to support her show. Without it, the show never would have been such a hit.

The Conners is a better show and the cast and crew are safe from Roseanne.. Laurie Metcalf and JohnGoodman did all the heavy lifting on the original Roseanne anyways. As did Estelle Parsons and Sara Gilbert.

*tards

I feel somewhat bad for Roseanne because she was someone who stood for things back in the '90s. But she went crazy and I agree, ABC knew what they were getting into when the show was rebooted. Same with Sara Gilbert. You could feel the uneasiness in some of the promotion but the show was doing so well, nobody wanted to spoil the $$.

But the online reaction was swift and strong and everyone from Wilson Cruz to Shonda Rhimes calling for her dismissal to Wanda Sykes quitting, ABC had no choice.

If it wasn't the Jarrett situation it would have been something else. It most likely would have played out the same way.

R49 Indeed, it was an accident waiting to happen. Sometimes I wonder if it was self-sabotage.

[quote]Her show, despite being a hit from day one, almost didn't make it past 13 episodes because of the production company and the network taking credit from her and screwing with her vision and making her life hell.

Hi, Roseanne!

Keep in mind that Roseanne lied about being sexually abused and never took responsibility. She ruined her father's life. That should have been the end of her career right there. She wins the award for the most hostile, batshit crazy set in the history of television. Then she turned into a MAGAt. She had already come out against gay marriage in the 2000s. She hated Obama winning the Democratic presidential nomination over Hillary because he was a black man. She's a proud Deplorable who posts alt-Right shit on a daily basis.

How come the SJWs went after Ellen for having a "toxic work enviroment" yet Ellen had to say something raacist publicly for them to cancel her?

Its almost like Ellen is the first person to get remaed for that so publicly.

[quote]I feel somewhat bad for Roseanne because she was someone who stood for things back in the '90s. But she went crazy and I agree, ABC knew what they were getting into when the show was rebooted. Same with Sara Gilbert. You could feel the uneasiness in some of the promotion but the show was doing so well, nobody wanted to spoil the $$.

I, too, knew where it was all headed. Roseanne's Twitter account made it clear that she wasn't ready for primetime. During the reboot she was posting racist shit about football players who took a knee and said that she would kick the shit out of Kathy Griffin for the Trump photo. She also wanted any non-Jew murdered. She was doxxing people. This is a woman who just years earlier was dressed as Adolf HItler and taking burnt cookies out the oven, not to mention was anti-Israel for decades. Now she sees herself as their leader and has teamed up with the ant-gay rabbi charlatan that became Michael Jackson's guru and spokesperson. Roseanne has a multitude of personality disorders. Her own sister said that throughout Roseanne's entire life she always had to be a victim. She's a true sociopath.

Why Roseanne thought nothing of acting out during the 2018 reboot of her show was due to what she got away with in the 1990s. She thought that if she kept bringing the ratings the suits would look the other way. What she didn't understand was that the industry had changed dramatically. It was now diverse with not only men calling the shots. She wasn't prepared to be fired. ABC stuck it out as long as they could but then all the talent at ABC was threatening to walk if she wasn't let go. I'm sure they were forced to sign clauses which detailed unacceptable behavior. They saw Roseanne getting away with murder.

So Roseanne gets the boot and what does she do about it? She blames Ativan and even cried on the phone saying that she was willing to check herself into a psychiatric hospital. The woman has always used mental illness as an excuse to get out of punishment. She is truly one of the most evil creations on the planet, but also talented.

R51 I'm not Rosey, but I'm unabashedly a huge fan of hers. I think she's extremely talented and I'll always admire her. I don't mind that she's a little crazy. Artists tend to be crazy.

r52 Not saying Rosey is blameless for that, but we have to keep in mind that the "repressed memory" thing was very "in" in psychology in the 80s and 90s, kind of the way trans is "in" now. She says it was a mistake to come out and say that before she finished therapy. Reading between the lines, she came from a fucked up environment, if not necessarily a sexually abusive one as she originally said.

[quote]How come the SJWs went after Ellen for having a "toxic work enviroment" yet Ellen had to say something raacist publicly for them to cancel her?

Oh, dear, and what the fuck are you talking about? Her staff came out against her. We heard the Ellen stories for 20 years. It was like Bill Cosby. Everyone knew. Then the shit hit the fan. She was getting away with this shit for decades.

R56, Former staffers came out against her because they were prodded to by SJWs on social media buzzfeed who specificially seeked them out and compensated them for their stories.

[quote] She told us regular folk you could be fat and weird and still be on TV.

Except, somehow, she and "Dan" had two skinny daughters (Becky & Darlene).

The jewish str8 woman will always have it easier than the gentile dyke in hollywood.

[quote] Not saying Rosey is blameless for that, but we have to keep in mind that the "repressed memory" thing was very "in" in psychology in the 80s and 90s, kind of the way trans is "in" now. She says it was a mistake to come out and say that before she finished therapy. Reading between the lines, she came from a fucked up environment, if not necessarily a sexually abusive one as she originally said.

Wrong, She needs to be a perpetual victim. That's why she was drawn to it. She gave three excuses as to what she said what she did and one of which was she wanted to drop a bomb on her family. Then in 2011 she goes on Oprah and talks around it and then caps off that those types of memories don't come from no where, implying that something did happen. She's full of shit. What she did is evil and what she turned into is full-blown deplorable. There's no justification.

Like I said, she's talented but completely evil. She is the type that will gladly make something and get you sent to prison and carry on the charade.

[quote]Former staffers came out against her because they were prodded to by SJWs on social media buzzfeed

Nope. They had been already coming out years before the Buzzfeed shit. Buzzfeed just decided to check all of it. We all knew what was going on. It was no secret. Even Kathy Griffin wrote about it.

Nobody on the Roseanne retread was loyal to Roseanne. They pushed her over the side of the ship and kept on sailing. IMO, she must have been hell to deal with.

Calling a black woman an ape? Trump supporter? Accused a family member of molesting her then crickets? She's a deplorable.

I forgot about all the other talent at ABC threatening to quit if Roseanne wasn't fired. ABC really had no choice when that happened. Perhaps if things hadn't been so extreme, they would've let Roseanne stay.

R61, Kathy had a personal reivance with ellen because she believed Ellen banned her when she just wasnt worth of being on the show. Kathys is pretty toxic and is am emotional paranoid wreck. Much like Ellen. just not as famous or rich and never will be.

Besides roseannes behaviors were not a secret yet there never was people rooting for her to be fired over it. She had to become Trumpster for people to want to "cancel" her.

The stories never hit the primietime untill buzzfeed paid for tjem thats the truth. Social justice warriors have been after Ellen for years.

R60 so great that there are pure people like you to pass judgment on the rest of us.

R62, what should the cast do? Give up their jobs so they can show Roseanne "loyalty?" Would she quit her job if one of them got fired? I doubt it.

I don't understand how you can look at Roseanne and not see her mental illness. This isn't some woman being a bitch this is someone who never seems to be able to think clearly for more than a day.

And I read the first book she wrote, before she ever accused her dad of molesting her as a baby. He used to pin his kids down and push his tongue in their mouths. Not what I would call sexual assault necessarily, but creepy behavior nonetheless

[quote] [R62], what should the cast do? Give up their jobs so they can show Roseanne "loyalty?" Would she quit her job if one of them got fired? I doubt it.

Good point, R66, but it did seem like the Darlene & DJ actors went further than they needed in order to distance themselves from R.

R68, They didnt go far enough imo. Their careful pr statemens should have been replaced with honest statements about her true chatracter.

I was hoping this thread was going to be an actual fight with Roseanne vs. Ellen.

I live in LA and last year met a guy at a party who worked on the crew of Roseanne's original show. He said she was eccentric as could be, but okay.

R70 Cousin Ronnie?

The only Roseanne kid I've seen allude to how awful she really was is Lecy Goranson.

[quote] [R68], They didnt go far enough imo. Their careful pr statemens should have been replaced with honest statements about her true chatracter.

R69, I was speaking hypothetically: Darlene and DJ trying to save their jobs; Roseanne being an unfortunate casualty of war who they actually liked and didn't want to hurt.

Roseanne has brain damage. But both are crazy and unpleasant to staff, although I guess a big difference is that Roseanne's awful behavior was in the first few years after becoming a huge celebrity. Ellen has gotten worse over time and her success allowed her to create a structure where it wasn't just her being awful, there was general awfulness on the upper staff's part as well (on her behalf)

Why do cast members of toxic sitcoms stars act all cagey and dfeensive of their co star even decades later? Cosbys cast sticks by him too.

I was disappointed when Sara Gilbert was asked about the atmosphere on set and she quickly changed the subject.

Sara was all "Oh, those views are abhorrent" when the Jarrett situation happened, but she was one of the people responsible for the reboot so she couldn't have been shocked. She probably hoped Roseanne would contain herself but she was a simmering pot ready to boil over.

The theories of self-sabotage have some merit. There was something different about Roseanne in the reboot. Her acting was stilted (she was never a great actress but in the original show she really improved). And she just didn't seem genuine. Even scenes where Roseanne was showing a more vulnerable side, it rang false.

So many deplorables on DL. We’ve been overrun ! Oy!

R75' Roseannes abused people on every show shes done except the Roseanne reboot. The only difference is that shes been unemployed most of the past 25 years because nobody wants to wotk with her and her talk show was a disaster

Talk show hosts have a longer shelf life than sitcoms stars do. Ellen found success in sitcoms and talk shows. Go Ellen!! Ellen was a bit of a frosty bitch during her sitcom days too but i never heard about her being outwardly abusive like Roseanne was.

Ellen is accused of"micro agressions" which means things that are only a big deal in the pussified PC days that we live in now. Nobody would have considered them real offenses 20 years ago.

She got impatient when writers werent getting to the punchline fast enough. Mmkay.

Roseanne was just plain agressive. She takes this.

Old Roseanne was more like the overexhausted boss. She had to put up with a LOT of bs coming from everywhere - the network, writers, etc. When she did her shit, something usually happened beforehand with those people. People admit her behavior was shit, but that she was also kind. I don't recognize any of that in New Roseanne, who needs to be strapped down to a therapist's couch.

Ellen is more like the mean cheerleader. She's more subtle by using microagressions. The people who are saying she's nice are the ones who are either a) mean themselves or b) refuse to see/refuse to hear about how she treats her employees. I have yet to hear any of her regular guests/friends speak out.

R81, Nobody was out to get Roseanne. Roseanne was out to get Roseanne and still is.

As a young gayling growing up in the '90s, I will always be thankful to both women for what they did.

Roseanne put gay representation on television, which was a really big deal. And they weren't freaks, or different: Leon and Nancy were regular people who just happened to be gay. In 1992, that was revolutionary.

Ellen came out of the closet when I was 16. I already knew that I was gay, but seeing it positively represented on TV meant the world to me. People don't give her enough credit for that - how many lives she changed for having the balls to come out and carry on with her show.

That said, rumors of Ellen being a cunt have been around since her sitcom. I remember hearing them in the '90s. And Roseanne is Roseanne. She's has always been crazy, and is now a QAnon lunatic.

Imperfect idols.

I prefer Ellen to Roseanne in terms of output, but I think both have talent. Roseanne's toxic politics and mental instability make her seem more unpleasant. Ellen seems to be suffering from depression and related issues.

What was said above about gay identity is true, although Ellen's frank admission of it seemed more shocking at the time.

I'd take either one over Rosie O'Donnell, who seems incredibly mean without anywhere near the talent.

Both Ellen and Roseanne have mental health issues. Roseanne is truly brain damaged: when she was a teenager, she was hit by a car. She flew up in the air, and her head came down on the hood ornament, which went into her brain. She spent months in a mental hospital. So I give her a bye, for her craziness. I don't understand her magat tendencies, because she is very liberal, in a lot of her thinking. I find it sad that Ellen feels the need to be so mean. She really has a cruel streak. But given the emotional and sexual abuse she endured, growing up, it isn't surprising.

Oh yes r85, I remember hearing about that car accident, she was a demure girl, did well in school, and the first thing she said when she came round from the coma was, "somebody get me a cigarette!", our Roseanne was born!

^ I don't have anything against either of these women, by the way - plus, none of the allegations against Ellen are concrete, I haven't heard anything specifically awful, so she wasn't warm and fuzzy behind the scenes, that's it?

I don’t understand how she’s so anti-gay now. She had openly gay characters on her show, Sandra Bernhard, and IIRC the first lesbian kiss on Tv.

What gives?

The 80s were a television wasteland, for the most part. Most sitcoms were godawful "family values" garbage like Growing Pains, Family Ties, Mr. Belvedere, etc. Absolute shit. Roseanne put the nail in the coffin for those types of shows, which we can all be grateful for.

Technically it was Married... with Children that was the first "anti-family" sitcom of the 80s. It was originally going to be titled "Not The Cosbys". It premiered in 1987, a year before Roseanne. However Roseanne really popularized the dysfunctional working class family sitcom due to being on a major network like ABC and getting higher ratings. Married... was on Fox when it was still a new network (so not widely available) and MWC got mediocre ratings until the 1989 boycott attempt led by Terry Rakolta which helped spiked up the ratings and by the 90s it was a big hit. Funny enough, Roseanne auditioned for the role of Peg and was close to playing her until Katey Sagal got it. Thank God because Roseanne would have not been a good Peggy (the joke works much better that Peggy is very attractive and Al still doesn't want to touch her) and her sitcom wouldn't have existed had she taken the role.

R90's post reminded me how back in those days people gave enough of a shit about tv shows, movies and music that they were always leading boycotts and trying to ban something. And when you think of what they thought was obscene, compared to what we have today! Married With Children, Madonna, Prince, etc.

It all seems so very quaint.

Married with Children inspired tons of shows that tried to outdo it in cartoonish vulgarity and making the main characters all irredeemable assholes like Unhappily Ever After, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and The War at Home. I think Roseanne influenced working class shows with strong-willed mothers (or fathers) like Everybody Hates Chris, Malcolm in the Middle, Reba, Still Standing, Complete Savages and Grounded for Life.

Married With Children was more bizarre and satirical than Roseanne, but I liked it more. I agree with R90 that Peggy and Al still being attractive and the faded remains of a believably super-hot couple made their relationship funnier.

[quote] I don't understand how you can look at Roseanne and not see her mental illness.

She has enough money and had more than enough chances to get help and be compliant. She chooses not too. No one who does that deserves sympathy. She announced that she was no longer taking meds and smoking pot all day instead. That was her choice. Her mental illness comes down to personality issues.

[quote] Roseanne is truly brain damaged: when she was a teenager, she was hit by a car.

That’s her “story”. She’s a pathological liar so we don’t know the real story.

I hated the Kelly Bundy character. It was so old and played-out, even for its time.

I've always thought that Roseanne was a monster when it came to producers/execs and writers but mostly had good relations with cast and crew. Most of the horror stories over the years always seem to come from the "white collar" workers on her shows and not the working grunts.

And, I'd assume that Metcalfe and Goodman must have had good relationships with Roseanne...if that had not been the case, why would they have agreed to return for the reboot? Both are established actors with careers; they wouldn't have needed to come back if they hadn't wanted to.

Money, R98.

John Goodman spoke affectionately about Roseanne, before and after everything that happened

Roseanne is obviously mentally ill. But she is refreshing to me. Because she is very confrontational, no-nonsense and strong-willed. Very blunt and sarcastic. She makes her dislike of someone very known. She doesn't play the passive-aggressive game. Ellen is from the South, New Orleans, so passive aggression is in her blood. Think "God bless your heart" with smile which really means "go fuck yourself". Both women I admire because they did work hard and been through struggle. Ellen came out at the time many people were closeted and The US was and still is very homophobic. Roseanne's sitcom portrayed strong women and provided an accurate representation of working class Midwest families. Both seem miserable to me. It just shows that money and fame can't cure depression, mental illness or make you happy.

R100, Well of course she was nice to him. The people she abused likely see her very differently.

R99 Money is nice but as I stated, both Goodman and Metcalfe are working actors. They're not poor. If Roseanne was really awful to work with, they wouldn't have. And, as others have stated, it seems Roseanne got along with her actors.

Ellen is a saint compared to Roseanne.

I can understand Roseanne getting flack because her social media rants were out of line. But Ellen being demanding and a bit mean seems not that out of the ordinary for someone of her standing. Not saying it's right but what makes her stand out to other assholes in Hollywood? I feel she is just getting targeted because she is a woman and a lesbian. Men can be assholes in Hollywood but women of a similar power are supposed to be "nicer". I feel like David Letterman, Jay Maher and Jimmy Kimmel are bigger assholes than Ellen ever was

Roseanne has a huge chip on her shoulder in regards to socioeconomic classes. She got along with her fellow Roseanne actors because they all came from working class and middle class backgrounds. The writers in the beginning were upper class types, producers and directors too.

[quote] Roseanne put gay representation on television, which was a really big deal. And they weren't freaks, or different: Leon and Nancy were regular people who just happened to be gay. In 1992, that was revolutionary.

Ahem.

Of all the things Roseanne has done, inflicting Tom Arnold on the world has got to be one of the worst. I haven't heard Lecy Goranson or any other regular cast members bash her; unlike Cybill Shepherd, Roseanne didn't go ballistic when Laurie Metcalf won Emmys and unlike Brett Butler she didn't drunkenly flash child actors.

I think Ellen was really hardened after the backlash against her sitcom after she came out. She tried another (w/ Cloris Leachman) a few years later that failed and then started the talk show, which I doubt she thought would be so successful and last so long. The whole appeal of Ellen's stand-up was the dissonance between her chirpy, obscenity-free delivery and the caustic content of her jokes. That kind of dissonance doesn't translate so well to daytime, and after she hooked up with Portia they retreated from reality into their high-end LA real estate bubble.

I'd take batshit crazy over cruel and vindictive any day.

But with her support of the right-wing, trump and Qanon, Roseanne Barr has become batshit and cruel and vindictive so there's nothing to choose between them.

The reality is that most comedians and comediennes are awful, miserable people. Inside they are twisted and broken and misshapen things. They may be entertaining but I'd stay far, far away from them in personal and professional relationships.

[italic]Soap[/italic] is TERF propaganda since Jodie didn't go through with the sex change.

I never thought Ellen was that funny and I find her talk show to be the most boring thing ever. I think Roseanne is hilarious though because she just doesn't give a fuck. Roseanne is an asshole and is proud of it. As someone from a family of strong women, she is a pretty close representation of a working class no-nonsense matriarch as was Vicki Lawrence in Mama's Family. Roseanne's antics are old too. She sung the worst rendition of the National Anthem ever. She played a crazy wife seeking vengeance on her cheating husband in "She-Devil". Roseanne also actually faxed over insults and threats to TV critics who bashed her husband Tom's sitcom "The Jackie Thomas Show". Ellen was progressive for coming out in the 90s but got jaded and cynical due to the backlash and her sitcom's cancellation. She ended up just playing the Hollywood game, pandered to the straight female audience and kissing up to producers and celebrities.

Roseanne vs Ellen? Try Ina Garten vs Roseanne. I got the new Costco magazine yesterday, and the pic of Ina on the cover ... well, I thought it was Roseanne. I was all, "Why is Roseanne on the cover of Costco?" The only food I could remember her making was loose meat sandwiches, and how she melted the butter in the skillet for her grilled cheese, instead of spreading it on the bread - which is a great idea BTW.

Ina Garten is the flatulent, boring, charisma and talent free version of Roseanne.

[quote]But with her support of the right-wing, trump and Qanon, Roseanne Barr has become batshit and cruel and vindictive so there's nothing to choose between them.

The right wing is so cruel and vindictive. There are only 3000 posts in five threads celebrating the president's COVID diagnosis and laughing about it right now. Damn those cruel, vindictive right wingers.

R115.

The cunt lied about it, ignored, it, imperiled the American people and blew off 200,000 deaths.

Pardon me if I don't give a fucking shit about his fucking health, you tender, tender cunt.

r90 Not exactly. Roseanne did not feature a dysfunctional family. It featured a real family.

Eh, some people liked seeing themselves represented on The Roseanne Show, warts and all. Others hated it--said they watch TV to escape their own lives and don't want "The People of WalMart" as entertainment. Just depends on your perspective.

Television has always been a source of escapism and portrayals of realism in TV have always been a source of heated debate. I remember learning about how The Honeymooners are controversial because it was about a working class couple who argued a lot, who lived in the city and were childless. It was in contrast to the happy nuclear family in the suburbs of Middle America that was dominant on television. The UK was known for having working class sitcoms about realistic and dysfunctional families. Norman Lear's output like All in the Family, Good Times, Maude, The Jeffersons and Sanford and Son were inspired by UK shows in fact. They all reflected the changing tide of American society in the 1970s especially in regards to race, sexuality and politics. It seemed by the 1980s with Reaganism and the demand for the return of "wholesome family values" caused the spike of white suburban middle-class sitcoms or a whitewashed PC black sitcom like The Cosby Show. So shows like Roseanne and Married... represented the poor white trash (and poor black) population who could not relate to the Keatons or the Huxtables first world problems.

The only successful Norman Lear shows that were not remakes of British shows (or spinoffs thereof) were [italic]One Day at a Time, Mary Hartman Mary Hartman[/italic], and [italic]Fernwood 2Night[/italic].

Married... with Children was co-created by a black man (Michael C Moye) and regularly had black, Hispanic and Asian recurring characters. Many of Al and Peggy's friends were black and similarly unhappily married. They had a lot of episodes with gay and lesbian characters and portrayed as regular people with the same relationship problems. The Bundys were actually were really tolerant loved everyone who were as equally miserable as them. It was a better representation of Chicago than John Hughes.

Also the Bundys were actually supposed to be black hence Not The Cosbys as the working title. But they were too scared of offending people that they decided to make them white.

Roseanne really put an end to the sappy happy family sitcoms of the 80s. Those shows were such garbage and are unwatchable now.