Why is Carrie Bradshaw such a beloved character who white women from Middle America try to emulate?

i thought most took your view. I do anyway

I love how after the show ended there were some websites who stated Carrie would never have been able to afford the life she lived off writing a small column for a 3rd rate paper.

Even after she began working for Vogue, she still wouldn’t have been able to lol.

R1 most women love her. It’s most gays who see through her bullshit.

[Quote] Why is Carrie Bradshaw such a beloved character who white women from Middle America try to emulate?

No, it's white gay men who try to emulate her.

R4 hmmmm that’s true too. Her and Samantha.

I’ve only ever met very few who wanted to be Charlotte and never met someone who wanted to be Miranda, although have met some who admitted they were a Miranda.

Wasn't the point that Carrie made bad decisions, she fucked up plenty of times, and her friends stuck by her because they were her friends.

They supported each other even when they were in the wrong because that's what friends do.

People really find it strange that a female lead character can be unsympathetic.

I loved when they leaned into the character's unlikability and had her cheat with big whose wife broke her teeth.

The show was compelling that season. Then it leaned out and became something you have on in the background while cleaning again.

Carrie really did shit all over Aiden. It was especially horrible how she begged him to take her back, only so she could dump him. CUNT.

R7 and then, in true Carrie fashion, she makes it seem like the wife is the bad guy for not wanting to speak to her or forgive her.

Most white women can't get away with being openly selfish and materialistic, or feel horribly guilty if they do. Carrie not only went ahead and lived the dream of being blatantly selfish, slutty, and spending money she didn't have on a fabulous lifestyle, she did it without even being good-looking! Double living-the-dream!

Which is why I hate that show. Those are not my dreams, and I dont like people who aspire to that shit.

"Frau fest tv" doesn't need to make any sense at all, that's why.

R2 People said that while the show was still on.

[quote] They supported each other even when they were in the wrong because that's what friends do.

No, that's not what friends do.

I've had friends I've kept my entire life because they're good people. I have other friends who have turned out to be shits, and I got rid of them.

I never watched the show but I saw a few scenes here and there. Carrie Bradshaw lived a life that many women envy yet she showed self-awareness and insecurities. I think that combination is what appealed to women.

Carrie had some good moments, I suppose lol

Do you think that dude in Sharper Image sniffed Samantha's returned vibrator?

R9, what was great was that Carrie tried to spin it, but the audience saw that she was full of shit.

The scene where Carrie approaches the wife in a restaurant and begs for forgiveness and the wife refuses, it probably the most compelling scene in the series.

Or when she declares Natasha an idiot because she misspelled "there". You aren't perched at the top of the intelligencia tree either, sweetfart.

R17 I love that scene.

Samantha Jones was the only decent character. She was who she was, without the conniving, manipulative traits all the other girls had.

I think we were supposed to identify with Carrie Bradshaw, the underdog who tried too hard, tried (and failed, mostly) to be self-deprecating, and touched glamor and fame, but never really was glamorous and famous. Every time we started feeling strong empathy with Carrie, she fucked it up with unavoidable narcissism.

You elevate TV show characters to an importance they don't deserve nor achieve.

Middle American women??...the whole lot ...all several million of them, want to emulate a single, fictitious person from a show that ended almost 20 years ago?

Do you also think young, urban black males want to emulate Will Smith's Fresh Prince?

I always wondered what were the Political stances of each girl. They would probably have an episode about Politics in 2020.

I always assumed Carrie and Charlotte were Republicans and Miranda 100% a Democrat. Samantha could lean either way. Probably neither and votes Libertarian or something

And Carrie’s takeaway after the Natasha takedown was that her actions led to putting another beautiful woman back on the singles market. Huh?

Apparently we were to believe that Carrie was quite famous. She did book readings and had fans in France.

R24 Yes, and what did she do to her fans in France? She blew them off.

They were crazy to think so many people would pay for copies of Carrie's shitty columns which you could read for free in the daily rag.

Who emulated her? I don’t know anyone that did, though I’m sure they exist. I thought her ensembles were outlandish and foolish and that her personality was annoying. And I couldn’t do the suspension of disbelief with all the money to buy clothes, eat out, and never get date raped or herpes. It was all dumb.

The only good part was when her friend fell out of the window.

I've said this before on here that as I a single gay man in my 30's in the late 90's and early 00's I worshiped Carrie and SATC. I could so relate to her and her struggles. As a married gay man in my 50's, I now realize what a selfish self absorbed snot Carrie is. She never evolved the entire run of the series and never learned how truly bad Big was for her. Adrian was the guy for her. But she didn't deserve him. She was her most authentic and comfortable with him and she threw him away.

The rest of the woman did evolve and it was fun to watch. Miranda especially. When she finally let Steve him and settled down in Brooklyn. I loved that for her. Btw the 2 movies are free on Prime and I watched the 2nd one the other night. I saw it at the theater. Its bad but not as bad as it was made out to be. The last half is pretty awful in Abu Dhabi but as one critic said "she acts like its a job to be a cunt" which I thought was a pretty good description.

[quote] They were crazy to think so many people would pay for copies of Carrie's shitty columns which you could read for free in the daily rag.

There are real life examples of columnists getting book deals based on their newspaper columns. Even stories published first in newspapers which got published as books later. Like, Armistead Maupin's Tales of the City.

[quote] She is the most selfish, self-centered narcissist that I have ever seen. She’s all about “me me me” and God forbid any of her friends have a problem without her making it about herself. She is entitled, spoiled and deluded as well.

As a previous poster pointed out she became a role model for those who felt trapped in a world where they were supposed to put their own needs aside and help and support others even at your own expense. The pushovers who get pushed around by their husbands, friends, neighbors, colleagues, bosses, etc.

All you need to know.

Sex and the City is an escapist fantasy for dim witted materialists.

Carrie let herself be a doormat for Big the entire series. She got pushed around plenty.

Most women are expected to be the caretakers of others, but Carrie cared for herself first. The nameplate necklace with her own name underscored her character’s self-regarding nature.

R33 i was going to say that. Carrie was very much a puppet for Big to play with throughout most of the series. It wasn’t until she got serious with The Rich Russian that she finally put her foot down, for a few days, before running back to him.

R23, I know!

That voice over was designed to destroy any shred of sympathy for Carrie in that situation.

One thing I will say, few shows would be willing to make their lead so unsympathetic....even if only for a brief time.

[quote] Middle American women??...the whole lot ...all several million of them, want to emulate a single, fictitious person from a show that ended almost 20 years ago?

Did he say "who every single white woman with no exception from Middle America tries to emulate"? No, he didn't.

You're putting words in his mouth, which is a deeply annoying argumentative tactic.

I don't think she was a doormat when it came to Big. She was a clingy stalker (remember she sneaked into the church to get a look at him and his mother?). What did she give up for Big? What were the big things she backed off in order to hold on to Big? Yes, he broke it up with her, but it was her who had the bruised ego and came back when he called, because her ego couldn't stand to be dumped.

The second movie was "not as bad as its made out to be," R29? Remind me NEVER to let you pick the movie.

The issue with the second movie was nothing happened. There was no point to it. It really just felt like a long episode with the girls on vacation. Nothing big happened. Nothing changed. No big arc like the first film.

The first film was too long and slow after the wedding that didn’t happen, but it felt like a movie. The second DIDNT.

OP< you offer no evidence for your argument. We've already shit on Carrie & SJP on the threads about SATC men. This is just tedious.

And if I recall, SJP and the other producers faced backlash for the second movie, as many felt the film was pretty “racist” as well as disrespectful.

Threads like these make me miss IMDb message boards so much. I hate that they got rid of them.

I used to post on the SATC board all the time, and it was always active. And then the movie came and that board was busy for the first few weeks the film was out, with many discussions on the characters, the film, and the series. Loved it.

I remember a thread about Charlottes behavior in the first movie, while in Mexico. It was a good discussion and arguments about whether she is racist or not. I think most came to the conclusion Charlotte is that type of white woman from an Upper Middle Class family in Connecticut who tends to feed off stereotypes, but wasn’t necessarily “racist”.

20 years later, bridge-and-tunnel types are still coming to Manhattan, insisting on walking 4 across whether there's room or not (there isn't, bitches--they filmed that shit at 6am), standing in line at the Magnolia to buy their dry cupcakes, declaring how fabulous they are.

So, yeah, it's still important to note that this bint was a self-absorbed asshole (especially after Parker became Executive Producer, and other characters were required to tell her/us how fabulous Carrie was every fucking episode).

R44 you see the 3 or 4 across in Brooklyn all time now too. Never saw that much up until the past 10-15 years. And It’s getting worse with time, as more randoms flock to Brooklyn instead of Manhattan. And sometimes they don’t move, you have to either walk around them or move to the side and wait for them to pass. It’s the worst.

She has lots of sex with hot guys and gets paid very well for doing next to nothing. Hell, I want to emulate her.

Carrie was an interesting, flawed character until SJP became executive producer for Season 4. Then the whole show became about how wonderful Carrie was despite her continued shitty behavior.

She's pushing 40 and still living a fantasy. I mean, do you remember that whole arc with the Russian and she was running around Paris in all those fancy getups? In real life, he would have fucked her for a couple of weeks and then taken off for Europe. And Big would not have come back to her, begging to get back together.

I don’t know who loved Carrie, but the show was funny and enjoyable because of the ensemble. She had her funny and emotional moments too, but I don’t think anyone thought she was someone to emulate, necessarily—her fashions were atrocious and she was completely self-destructive in relationships (to be fair, many can relate to that). Samantha and Miranda were better people, and Charlotte’s primness added comedic effect, but these women all went through difficulties at some points which humanized them. Carrie was extremely self-absorbed, but occasionally had a hint of humanity. I still enjoy the show but recognize how shallow much of it is, too. They both can exist for me.

Remember when Lens made girls and would shit all over this show to promote hers? Lmao

GIRLS*

Have you SEEN Middle America??? Horses everywhere.....

Middle America has many beautiful parts. DL never acknowledges those though.

OP’s clip was horrible.

If the man I loved asked me to never see an ex again, I would agree that, ASAP.

Now, this is a script that was written for Carrie to eventually end up with Big, so I understand why the character “Carrie”, denied his request. But in real life? You agree if you love your man and wanna keep him in your life.

I started smoking because Carrie made it seem fabulous. I probably would have picked it up anyway, but before I saw the show in high school I thought smoking was disgusting.

On that note, someone went through and compiled every scene of Carrie smoking on YouTube. There are hours of it.

R54 she didn’t end up with Big again for another few years

Why do so many gay blokes (and I'll leave colour out of it because I'm a gentleman and NOT a bigot) enjoy shows specifically about straight women's lives to the point of overanalysing them sixteen years later on a gay message board? I seriously think a show about lesbians would intrigue me more.

I sometimes wonder about such pseudo intellectual threads on DL. I'll also posit the notion that if gay blokes can identify with these female characters, so then could BLACK or any other COLOUR person, regardless of gender.

A whole video of reasons why Carrie was a horrible person

[quote] She is the most selfish, self-centered narcissist that I have ever seen.

Sorry, OP, but what exactly do you not understand about why she’s a role model to the average white American woman?

She had a dirty bathroom, greasy, old-fashioned kitchen and smelly closet.

R58 some of their points (and examples) are exactly the same as OP. In other words, OP, others feel the same way you do about her.

By the end of SATC, I wanted to kick Carrie on the face.

Oddly, the first time I watched Golden Girls and SATC, I didn't like Blanche or Samantha. I thought they were funny characters, but too vain.

When going back to the shows later, I see them as open minded, non-judgmental, supportive friends.

But Carrie is self absorbed and selfish, made worse by the fact that she perceives herself to be a heroine.

I'm always surprised at the cultural currency this old show still has. Even more surprising is how many women seem to think this show was a documentary and not a materialistic fantasy. It has as much to do with the real NYC almost as much as Friends does.

They should have ended the second movie with all four of them being locked up for their disgusting, entitled behavior.

Final shots: Charlotte down on her knees scrubbing the disgusting shitters, making that prissy face behind her veil

Samantha sweating buckets in the prison, stitching hijabs

Miranda being forced to cook meals for the local militia in a dirty little kitchen

Carrie being whipped for dropping precious cargo from her back as she climbs a hill, like the old workhorse she is.

I loved Sex and the City. I feel like I've watched all the episodes a million times. I tried to watch it in the beginning of the lockdown and it just hasn't aged well for me. It's old enough to feel really dated, but too recent to feel nostalgia. It's a show of it's time. The first seasons showing a pre 9/11, pre SATC sanitized NYC. Upon re-watching in 2020, I find the characters are all so 1 dimensional. Carrie was a terrible, materialistic, shallow person who was also an awful friend. She's the friend that would ditch you in a heart beat for a relationship or if something better comes along. She really not only treated her gay best friend as a second class friend and piece of shit, but she was not a good friend to her core group as well. Miranda was really the only one who showed real growth and IRL would have probably ditched that crew once she was married with kids. I even found my beloved Samantha annoying. Did she really need to insist the Sharper Image sales person call the back massage a "vibrator". She said this multiple times and I was like, this bitch is harassing him. I still love Sam Jones, but even she feels like a relic of another time. These girls were like the early social media influencers for young millennial women.

Carrie reminds me of Linda from the old BBC sitcom Gimme Gimme Gimme who lacks self awareness and believes she's so pretty and desirable and the center of the world.

R65 the customer is always right mentality is still well and alive in 2020. See all those Karen videos. Samantha doing that isn’t that out there.

For a show written by gay men, I surprised how little depth they gave to the gay characters. Especially in the movies.

R68 um the show was about 4 single gals trying to find love and success in 90s NYC. Everyone else was secondary. Why would the gay friends have a bigger role? If anything let’s be happy they even had gay characters.

I’m so over white ciswomen.

Op I don’t think Carrie was sold as a lovable character. SJP herself has said that she could never dream of treating people the way that Carrie does when explaining how different she is from the character. Carrie did fall out with her friends and they did often call her out on her bs. Her friends had their own moments of selfishness in their own lives too by the way..bird of a feather...

A lot of people are drawn to the narcissistic nature of Carrie and the fabulous high maintenance NY life that it attracted to her. She in turn paid the price for her behavior through the men and relationships she attracted and the way these men treated her.

By the end of the series, the character has certainly grown from her youthful naïveté and self absorption. There’s an evolution and redemption.

"I’m so over white ciswomen."

I'm so over chicks with dicks.

Where were they meant to each live?

[quote]One thing I will say, few shows would be willing to make their lead so unsympathetic....even if only for a brief time.

Carrie Bradshaw was a complicated woman. She could be vain, insecure, narcissistic, hypocritical and judgmental, and she could also be funny, supportive, sympathetic and loyal. That's why she fell out with all of her close friends at least once.

Being British I'm not that au fait with US tv shows before the late 90s but I can't think of many which had female leads who were that complicated who and played by actresses who wanted the audience to see them warts and all.

After Carrie Bradshaw there was Valerie Cherish, Jackie Peyton, Cathy Jamison, Carrie Mathison, those women in the Lela Durham show, even Fleabag, but I don't remember many before. Would Ellen or Roseanne be considered that flawed?

Didn’t Carrie live on the UES? Samantha in the Packing Meat District? Charlotte on Park Avenue (after getting married to Trey).

Idk about Miranda

I loved the first and even parts of the second season. But by season 3 when she chose Big over Aidan it was over for me. SJP could have periods where she was actually attractive but I’m not sure what happened. Straight and blond looks best on her and she insists on going dark now which just makes her look horsy.

I actually think she looked best with blonde curls

[quote] I'm so over chicks with dicks.

None of them are as bad as Carrie Bradshaw.

After Miranda and Steve married, they moved to Brooklyn. Remember Carrie did not want to leave Manhattan to see her? When Miranda and Steve broke up, Miranda and Brady moved back to Manhattan, somewhere south. That's why they agreed to meet in the middle of the Brooklyn Bridge if they wanted to reconcile.

I've never seen this show, Was it on HBO? I don't have HBO.

I've never watched SATC, but in the columns on which the series is based, Candace Bushnell came across very badly.

The premise was that she was a clever writer who spent all her time with loathesome men and women [italic] none of whom she could actually stand and all of whom she continually mocked [/italic] because they were rich and she was hoping to land a rich husband.

You wanted to shake her and scream "GET BETTER FRIENDS!!!" Because clearly there were people in NYC who were nowhere near as shallow as the people she surrounded herself with and/or the men she dated.

There was a somewhat recent column in the Observer by a NYC ad guy that invoked a similar sense of pity and wonder as to why the author spent all his time with people he did not particularly like and then complained about them to us in his column,

(In both cases, the fact that the people in question, who are largely portrayed in an unflattering light, must be able to spot , if not themselves, then everyone else, must have made the authors relationships quite complicated.

[quote] Why do so many gay blokes ... enjoy shows specifically about straight women's lives to the point of overanalysing them sixteen years later on a gay message board?

R57, I forget where I read it, but someone once described SATC as a show about four straight women who act like gay men.

One of the shows biggest criticisms were that it was to obvious it was written by gay men. The characters didn’t speak or act like straight women, they acted and spoke like gay men, especially Samantha, who was supposedly mirrored after a gay man.

[quote]Where were they meant to each live?

Carrie lived on E. 73rd St. in Yorkville. It was mentioned a few times on the show.

Samantha lived somewhere in the Meat Packing District (far West Village)

Charlotte was somewhere on the UES, and I don't think they ever specified which neighborhood Miranda lived in when she was still in Manhattan.

The show was considered being about gay men, because women weren't supposed to be like that. You know, having careers and an active sex life. A woman like Samantha would have to feel shame for being promiscuous and go to Sex Addict Anonymous meetings. A career woman like Miranda would have to feel guilty for being so independent and not be like a total Frau in a cubicle with lots of pictures of her cat.

The show also pushed a lot of high-end products. Manolo Blahnik, Versace, Prada, high-end purses. I always thought the show was a running advertisement for expensive brands.

R84, I though Carrie lived on the UES, next door to Barneys. I think she said E. 73rd and Lexington.

Samantha originally had a rent controlled apt on the UES, but then one of her tricks mugged an old lady in the building. She moved to the Meat Packing District.

Charlotte lived on Park Ave.

Where was Samantha's first apartment? The one she left after her neighbors shunned her for being a slag?

It's not that Middle America that love her. I was in my 20s during the SITC heyday and lived in NYC and it was very much a thing on the east coast to be a fan. We watched, loved and lived it. Cosmos and girls brunch was very big.

Now I can barely watch an episode. It had it's time.

It wasn't Sam's trick who robbed the old biddy, the robber snuck in behind the trick, as seen on the CCTV

I wonder if SATC could hold up today or if it could have worked then without that cast. They were perfect for their roles and SJP was the perfect glue and fit Carrie like Aniston fit Rachel.

Miranda is modeled after the droves of professionally ambitious (make partner or die trying), status conscious (Manhattan only, thank you) gay strivers who come to NY from Dogpatch with dreams of success and hopes of forgetting their less glamorous origins.

THOSE types of White gay men r92 mentions are embarrassing, wanting to live such a fake life.

Yes, but Miranda was also coming from Harvard Law and had a job at a top law firm.

[quote]I wonder if SATC could hold up today or if it could have worked then without that cast.

Megan Fox as Carrie

Phillipa Soo as Miranda

Priyanka Chopra as Charlotte

Laverne Cox as Samantha

Most of what made SATC work was its cast. And people forget, while it did well, it wasn’t the smash hit it became until around season 4. I know most DLers say the first 3 seasons are superior, but based on ratings and popularity, it took off after SJP became executive producer and changed the tone from more serious to more lighthearted, overall.

To be fair, the OG SATC had a TWOC:

"You better take that dick out before I shit on it"

The lighthearted tone was fine, but the Carrie-as-quirky-urban-goddess-in-Manolos thing got old fast. She was a much better character when she seemed a bit more like a real person.

I think her best hairstyle was the long auburn bob she wore in the pilot. The color warmed her up and the volume and shorter length made her look less horse-faced. She also wasn't quite as bone-thin as she became later on.

[quote] One of the shows biggest criticisms were that it was to obvious it was written by gay men. The characters didn’t speak or act like straight women, they acted and spoke like gay men, especially Samantha, who was supposedly mirrored after a gay man.

I'm so fucking tired of this complete bullshit. Outside of Season 1, the show was staffed with and primarily written by women.

[quote] By the end of the series, the character has certainly grown from her youthful naïveté and self absorption. There’s an evolution and redemption.

I didn't see that at all. The first movie has her celebrating over the gigantic high-tech closet she gets in marrying Big, as if that was the real point in marrying him.

[quote] The show also pushed a lot of high-end products. Manolo Blahnik, Versace, Prada, high-end purses. I always thought the show was a running advertisement for expensive brands.

One of my best friends from college is sisters with one of the women writers of the show. In 2001, my friend and I were both staying in LA for a wedding, and my friend called me over to her sister's house when her sister was out. The sister's house was filled top to bottom with free swag the sister had received from clothiers, cosmetics companies, accessories manufacturers, jewelers, etc., who wanted her to write their products into upcoming episodes. It was insane.

R99 whether true or not, it’s criticized for it

That doesn't make it right, nor does it mean it should continue.

One of my best friends from college wrote for the show. Yes, she got some swag, but not the insane amount that R101 describes.

I wonder if the story is true, because I wonder why this person would bother transporting so much stuff from New York to LA. If she was still writing for the show in 2001, this writer would have been spending a good part of the year in New York--and that is where the swag would have been delivered.

On a side note, most of the writing staff was female. Other than Michael Patrick King, anyone who wrote more than one or two episodes was indeed a woman. (In spite of what someone said earlier, claiming it was written by gay men.)

The friend's sister commuted back and forth between Manhattan and LA (the Hollywood Hills). My friend and her sister are from a very wealthy family that lives on Park Avenue.

Whoever said this appeals to women and gay men was absolutely correct because straight men were NOT watching this shit. I think it's appeal was in the glamorous clothes yet gritty NYC backdrop. Also the explicit sexual dialogue was not heard of from female characters before. Now it's dated because you hear that all the time on shows.

Straight men watched it with their women

The video that r58 linked to basically covers all the reasons everyone loathes Carrie now. Maybe the production company should take it out of circulation for 20 years and then it will become one of those nostalgia shows.

Miranda lived on the Upper West Side. Carrie lived in the east 70s near Lexington.

Wow. DL didn't populate the last 40 post for me until I posted mine. It looked like no one had replied to r75.

OP, think about it. She's a clueless, self-absorbed, narcisstic, unnatractive woman who buys thousands of shoes and dates countless men despite not having THAT lucractive of a job. Now do you understand?

Did gay men really love SATC that much? After about 2007 or so, I have never met a single gay man who admits to watching it. Probably a sign that it hasn't aged well.

The materialism was so obnoxious. Teetering around Manhattan in shoes that cost more than many people’s annual salaries was kind of gross. Having maybe one or two pairs that you keep forever would be ok, but she was so greedy and it was supposed to be cute. I don’t think in these apocalyptic times that young people care about such stupid things. One bonus in 2020.

R112 you must live under a rock. Yea, they do, and helped the movie make $418 million WW

"Carrie promised to pay her back... I wonder if she managed to or kept buying shoes she can’t afford and eating out 3 meals a day..."

I was a bit bummed when she got the $25,000 advance from France for her book -- and they didn't show her paying Charlotte back anything. Instead, she bought Berger a stupid Prada shirt.

Charlotte didn't want to lend her the money because she knew she'd never pay her back, and that's exactly what happened.

R114, gays are like 5% of the population. The majority of the fans of SATC are straight women, not gay men.

R117 no said said they were the majority stupid. What we said was they watched it too.

R118, my original statement really was trying to say "were gays really THAT big of a demographic for SATC?". I'm sure some gays did watch it, but I think its appeal among gays has been really exaggerated. It is much more popular among American straight women who believe in things like "prince charming".

Carrie did pay her back R116. After she got her book money. She made a thing of paying her back in one of the episodes.

R113, I don't know about that. I know plenty of materialistic millennials. Not sure about Gen-Z though.

Millennials still watch this show.

It was at its best when Carrie was at her worst during that whole thing with Natasha. In any other show, that whole storyline would have made her wake up and realize that she was acting like a monster and totally self-absorbed and must change her ways. Either that or they'd continue with her going down a self-destructive path and getting darker and darker along the way until she finally ends up alone. Either of these would have been somewhat satisfying, but instead it decided to try to have her turn into some sort of quirky heroine that women should look up to.

I never got the feeling that we were supposed to like Carrie during the first few seasons. She was definitely relatable, but she wasn't always likable and she did some awful things. The show itself didn't make her out to be someone to aspire to, but the moment they started that crap, the show went downhill, the message got mixed, and a lot of people were left wondering why they started watching this show in the first place.

R123, very true. Once Carrie became a producer, it was all downhill. It turned into some kind of frau's Disneyfied vision of being a twat in NYC.

Oops, meant to say SJP, not Carrie

“The show itself didn't make her out to be someone to aspire to, but the moment they started that crap, the show went downhill, the message got mixed, and a lot of people were left wondering why they started watching this show in the first place.”

Yeah, that’s why the ratings WENT UP and the show became more popular. Because everyone wondered why they watched...

[quote] Yeah, that’s why the ratings WENT UP and the show became more popular. Because everyone wondered why they watched...

R123 was referring to people with taste.

Season 1 averaged over 6 million viewers

Season 2 averaged over 7 million viewers

Season 3 averaged over 7 million viewers

Season 4 averaged over 9 million viewers

Season 5 averaged over 7 million viewers

Season 6 averaged over 10 million viewers

Season 1 and 6 have the worst reviews from overall from Critics, while seasons 3 and 4 have the best overall. Season 4 got many reviews calling the show “fresh” and saying it felt “newer and younger” as opposed to its previous seasons. That was the season SJP took over.

Then a huge drop the next season.

I think the one positive thing message from the SATC bitches was that it was OK to be single, to revel in it. Even though at heart they were all desperate for a man, except maybe Samantha.

I would be interesting to hear weirdo Gen Z weirdos perspective on SATC. The shoes, the materialism, etc.

There was no next season. It ended with season 6 and that was their highest rated season.

The movies came after, and the first one made $418 million Worldwide on a $60 million budget.

Donald Trump handed Cynthia Nixon her Emmy when she won. I wonder how she feels now

I always felt bad for Cattrall. She was nominated 5 out of 6 times for her performance but never won. She looked like she wanted it in that video where Nixon wins.

Nixon won on her 3rd nomination and David got her first nomination for the final season.

SJP was nominated all 6 seasons and finally won for its final season.

....

SJP finally wins the Emmy

She actually looked really nice here!

[Quote] I think the one positive thing message from the SATC bitches was that it was OK to be single, to revel in it. Even though at heart they were all desperate for a man, except maybe Samantha.

Charlotte: It's because women really just want to be rescued.

Carrie: (voiceover) There it was. The sentence independent single women in their thirties are never supposed to think, let alone say out loud.

[quote]I always thought the show was a running advertisement for expensive brands.

That's because it was, R86. After SJP became an executive producer, she was paid for product placement of designer brands. Any scene that showed Carrie or another character carrying an expensive purse or wearing pricey shoes meant that only SJP would get the bonus money, not the other actors.

She was never a team player. Unlike what happened with the casts of [italic]Seinfeld[/italic] and [italic]Friends[/italic], she didn't support her co-stars and use her executive power to negotiate higher salaries for ALL the leads. SATC was an ensemble show. Otherwise, SJP wouldn't have made such a stupid fuss about needing Kim Cattrall to be in a 3rd SATC movie. Carrie was the narrator, yes, but the series wasn't created for SJP. She was cast as Carrie after 2 actresses rejected the part.

Season 5 was a mess due to Ferris Bueller impregnating his woman

SJP won 4 Golden Globes for this!

[quote] Carrie did pay her back [R116]. After she got her book money. She made a thing of paying her back in one of the episodes.

I have watched the series several times (it's good junk food tv for me when I'm depressed) and I can tell you that no mention of the money Charlotte loaned Carrie was ever made after the episode where she sells her ring to give Carrie the money.

R140 is right, there is never another mention of the loan. I am the one who suggested that just one line of Carrie saying "The rest will pay back Charlotte" or this king her as she clears the debt would have improved Carrie a lot.

Thanking her ^^

Here's an article about the ring drama.

Yes, Carrie came across as unreasonable but it did explore the idea of varying degrees of wealth amongst friends and how people are very funny about money.

I was always the poorest amongst a certain group of friends. The only one who hadn't been to university, the only one who didn't own my own home, the only one who couldn't afford to go on European city breaks, so much so they would arrange them without inviting me and assume I'd look after their cats. When we went out for birthdays I'd always drive as I couldn't afford to split the bill at the end, especially when they'd order hideously expensive wine and get through 2 bottles each.

Then my father died, who I'd not seen since my parents awful divorce when I was a teenager. Not only had I inherited the family house I grew up in, and all his savings, my uncle had died a few years before that and my father had a big inheritance from the home he owned, and it turn out my grandmother had died recently as well. My grandmother had been a total cunt to my mother during the divorce, and I inherited a lot of what she left too.

So I was rich, richer than my rich friends, except I hadn't EARNED it like they had. Some were pleased that I'd had an upturn in fortunes, especially with some of the things I'd had to go through in my past. But one in particular was really bitter and jealous about it and the passive aggressive jibes just got too much. We're no longer friends.

Sorry R143 hope you enjoyed your new wealth

R3 - I think some smarter women like my sister saw through it. She's an accountant in LA and at the time of the show was single and even with a decent salary, she said no way could she afford the designer brands on that show without foolishly going into debt. It's true that less intelligent women were charging their credit cards up the wazoo, but a smarter person would never model their life and finances off of some show.

[quote]Sorry [R143] hope you enjoyed your new wealth

Thank you! I don't live extravagantly, I used the money to buy a nice house which is mortgage free and reduce my hours in work part time. I can afford to buy nice things when I need them but from habit I still prefer value over making a statement. I mean I'm not super rich, I don't have a private pension like my high earning friends, so I'm conscious that a lot of the money will go towards that.

There's an interview with Oprah and Jo Rowling (not that I'm comparing myself to them!) where they discuss wealth, having experienced hardship in the past, and they talked about being able to buy something really expensive (a coffee machine?) but not wanting something that expensive.

Back to Sex And The City, I don't remember a time other than the ring when the girls discussed financial compromise.

Miranda felt guilty about spending money on Steve when he didn't have much, but there was never a thought as to whether she could afford Magda, her new flat, the house in Brooklyn. Certainly not one I remember.

Samantha wanted a cheap imitation Fendi handbags in California not because she couldn't afford the authentic versions (hi Lucy Lui!) but because she wanted a bargain. She didn't plan to sleep with the old man because she needed the jewellery.

Maybe the show would have been less groundbreaking if someone other than Carrie had to experience financial hardship.

Our society is built on the premise that people want to look better than they really are to impress their peers. The show just gave women the excuse to embrace to their nagging insecurities and chase that ugly, overpriced and oversized Birkin handbag to become the alpha / Queen Bee of their group of "friends".

All the ranks always present Carrie as the most hated

Carrie was always considered a cautionary tale of what not to do when it comes to money, relationships, and sometimes even fashion.

Samantha bought her meatpacking studio apartment after being ousted from her rent-controlled UES place.

Miranda had pavic attacks after buying her place as it meant responsibility and self-reliance.

I felt it unfair Charlotte got a huge apartment after 1 year of marriage where she made Trey feel inadequate (telling everyone he was impotent) and used (to get a baby). They had a prenup for a reason.

I never understood Samantha going from a one bedroom to a studio. NO ONE buys a studio unless they want to control their fat, untalented daughter who moves to the city with hopes of becoming an actress, but after a NYT profile gone wrong is drummed out of BroadWAY.

I always thought she had more rooms to the apartment.

R151 don't forget she went from renting to buying

[quote]I always thought she had more rooms to the apartment

In the scene where Josh Hartnett's brother is fucking her and the trans women of color are deconstructing white colonial patriarchy on the street below, she runs jumps out of bed and walks over to the kitchen area to get the water throw at them. Her bed is next to the kitchen. Imagine cooking a tikka masala in that kitchen, your bed sheets would smell hideous.

Any of the girls ever show their minge on the show?

The only cock I remember seeing was a freeze frame of Richard's when they stripped by the pool. I masturbated to it as a horny teen boy although I never thought Richard was attractive.

I always though Charlotte was slumming being friends with Carrie and Samantha.

Charlotte was a gold digging, snooty bimbo with a huge arse

[quote] Any of the girls ever show their minge on the show?

I don’t think so. Kim Cattrall kept her bra on in her sex scenes, which seems completely inconsistent with her character’s open minded attitude toward sex.

Kim had her boobs out plenty, and showed her butt. Did you mean SJP?

SJP should never have one. She played the most irritating, unlikeable and shallow main character on the show. Kim should have one over her.

Samantha was the only decent one out of that group and the only one who would actually have any friends at all in real life.

[quote] SJP should never have one.

Dear god, I'm tired. This should have said "SJP should never have won [an emmy]."

It's been some years since I read it so I can't remember details, but the book Sex and the City by Candace Bushnell upon which the TV series is based is incredibly dark and cynical, I'm surprised they made a comedy out of it. Given that the roots of the Carrie character lie in the book, it's not surprising she's not a pleasant person.

And to top it off, Carrie must have had mother/father issues. Mainly, that she didn't have either one. If that was ever explained, I missed that episode. And they missed her big dream wedding with Big.

R162, just rememeber--In America, SATC is considered a drama (thanks to stupid fraus). In Britain, it's a comedy. Probably because they are thinking "is this Carrie Bradshaw twat real!?".

I'm surprised they never mentioned that Carrie was months behind with her rent. She's the sort of irresponsible, feckless idiot who would prioritise labels and fun nights out ahead of her bills.

And why did it take her years to get a sexind job? That shitty column couldn't have taken longer than one hour per week to shite. I mean write..

Second job ^^

r162 I read the columns as they were published in the NY Observer and yes they were quite dark. When SATC the series came out, I was surprised it was a comedy. I thought "how are they going to make a comedy out of those depressing columns?"

It's odd to me that Carrie was actually attractive in the first few seasons of the show, before she grew her hair long. SJP has very nice hair, but she looked better when it was shorter--it never suited her somehow (and now that she's oiver 50 the long hair looks ridiculous).

The business where after SJP became a producer and arranged to have the writers always have someone tell her what a goddess she is was even after that, and when she got to look way too skinny and ropey (which wrought havoc on her face, making her nose look even more prominent). It's analogous to the infamous "moment of shit" the writers of [italic]Cybill[/italic] used to refer to, where they had to write in a character telling Cybill how wonderful she was--or to the "Blossom, you're so beautiful!" moments Mayin Bialik's parents demanded on [italic]Blossom.[/italic]

R164 false. The first 3 seasons are considered Dramedy, while 4-6 are considered full on comedy. They didn’t win Drama Emmys, they won Comedy Emmys

Samantha didn’t rent her studio, she flat out bought it in cash. It probably cost her a shit ton for that small place. It was realistic. Unrealistic would have her buying some large apartment in Manhattan in the early 00s, when shit became super expensive.

Samantha and Miranda would have friends. Miranda was cynical and sarcastic but she was a good person and friend. Very loyal.

Charlotte would have friends but not with these ladies. It would be other housewives who live on Park Avenue or UES where many rich are.

You guys are fucking idiots. Samantha didn’t buy a studio. She bought a loft in the meat pack district..

I'm sorry who said this show wasn't popular among gay men? Right now we have gay men arguing over what kind of apartment Samantha bought

A quick note on the ‘paying Charlotte back’ thing is that in series tv writing the writers can’t rely on viewers having watched all the past episodes therefore you can’t necessarily tie up loose ends many many episodes down the line. Storylines may last a few episodes but always in sequence, unless they’re with recurrent characters. It would seem weird for Carrie to all of a sudden pay Charlotte back for something that happened many many episodes behind. There is a containment of certain themes within an episode in every episode that will not recur.

I'm in the minority, but I liked season 5. I think it was the one season where Carrie actually got the payback for all her antics over the past 4 seasons. Going to the movies alone, bumping into a stranger in the rain who did not find her cute or endearing, her friends not really having the time to hang out with her b/c the all have lives (the Atlantic City episode), Berger as her guy, almost losing her apartment.

Samantha did not live in a loft. In the tyranny episode she is clearly not on the top floor.

R175 ummmm why is going to the movies alone bad? I prefer it

She almost lost her apartment at the end of season 4. Season 5 she got her crappy book deal

It was her voice and way of speaking, and a "cute" NY apartment.

Because she’s a homely woman than other women can aspire to: “if men find HER wonderful, I have a chance, too!” I think that also explains the popularity of Jennifer Anniston. A beautiful woman isn’t relatable.

The Carrie character is childish in her shallow self-centered materialism but rather than holding her back, it makes her adorable to men. It’s a woman’s dream.

By the time they got to season 6, the amount of designer label clothing those women wore would not be affordable to any of them including Miranda and Samantha. They weren't just carrying a few nice bags or wearing your basic nice, designer outfit, they were wearing full on couture doing their day to day in NYC. In the movies, I think in the sequel, just to do out on a camel picnic, Miranda shows up with bags of Dior or some such designer to hand out to everyone as basically hiking clothes. These wardrobes are on the level of royalty or billionaire where they would easily cost half a million or more per year.

Carries travel outfit to Paris?!?! I have flown business/first class many times to Europe and everyone is in athlesiure wear or changes into them on the flight.

[quote]Carries travel outfit to Paris?!?! I have flown business/first class many times to Europe and everyone is in athlesiure wear or changes into them on the flight.

When I flew from Guayaquil to Schiphol after my cruise around the Galapagos I was waiting in the KLM first class check in lane when the woman stood up waved at me and said "ECONOMY NEXT LINE". I was in a hoodie, shorts and hadn't shaved for 10 days.

She didn't even smile when she did eventually check me in, but did move me to an aisle seat.

Maybe she changed in the shitter after her flight?

R180 most straight men would disagree with you about Aniston when she was young. Most men found her hot.

SJP they would agree with you.

But the character wasn’t considered homely. We were supposed to believe she was a knockout. A blonde bombshell. Remember when they went to Atlantic City and the guy disses Charlotte because he wants the hot blonde aka Carrie? Lmao

Or that dress where the Russian shows up late on her first night in Paris and she's perfectly asleep in this full on ball gown/Oscar awards dress. I don't know where you would where that for just a night on the town, even to the most fabulous restaurant in the city. That dress would require a team to follow you around, get you in and out of the car, etc.

R186 as well as depends for all your toiletry needs

"What are people in Paris gonna think of me"

"Oh honey don't worry, your fabulousness will translate..!"

I'm a bit taken aback by the complaints that this show wasn't fully 100% realistic in what the characters could afford.

Surely if any TV show presented aspirational living, it was this one.

[quote] I always thought she had more rooms to the apartment.

Nope. It was definitely a studio. If you remember the episode with Chip Kilkenny, the police barge into Sam's place when she's fucking him and they pretty much go from the door to the bed in three steps.

I thought they were fucking at Chip's place?

I mean I thought there might be another room behind the wall where her headboard was, maybe a walk in closet or office

Okay, then remember when Samantha was sick and Carrie came over to make her Fanta and cough syrup shakes, the entire apartment was one room- front door, kitchen, bedroom.

I do know that, I just mean maybe there was another room we were never shown?

R70 I am so over white trans women.

Do you know how much a studio in that area cost???

No one is arguing that the studio wasn't expensive. But studios are for NYU students whose parents subsidize them, not successful career women in their 50s who have good nest eggs.

My old apartment in Chelsea on a prime corner just sold for $900K this summer, and it was a large one bedroom in a doorman building. Samantha likely got a relative deal 20 years ago, but could have done just as well in the same area with a larger place that would befit a person of her age and success.

R176 I think you’re confusing lofts and penthouses. Was that on purpose?

Someone in the UK commented upthread that Brits always saw SATC as a comedy and Americans as a drama....um, no, I’m American and when this came out, it was marketed as a comedy. The drama is sort of an aside to the comic-laden script. And yes, her whole life was silly and unrealistic and we recognized that—no one can write 3 unoriginal lines in a sex column and have a nice apt on the upper east side and afford Manolo Blahniks. She wouldn’t have just had credit card debt; she would’ve been living with parents in Brooklyn or Queens to spend all her money on clothes.

Do none of you own nice shoes? Like, more than one pair?

Carrie owned over 100 absurdly overpriced shoes.

R197 I'm not American but its says a loft is usually in the attic space below the roof?

Men love to judge women for spending money on shoes and bags - and who buys all these sports cars?

R200 also there’s a different between a loft (space (under roof)) and a loft (apartment (adaptable open space)).

Sorry I see now that Samantha had a loft apartment.

Remember when she burst into hysterics when Big said he was going for a small heart op, making it all about her but when Sam says she has cancer she under reacts? Bastard

no kidding, that show is one big pile of shit. specilly SJP and her ratched face/voice....unreal

and bitch chain smokes !

[quote]Someone in the UK commented upthread that Brits always saw SATC as a comedy and Americans as a drama....um, no, I’m American and when this came out, it was marketed as a comedy. The drama is sort of an aside to the comic-laden script.

Orange Is The New Black and Nurse Jackie was also pitched in the comedy. category, highlighting the frequently hilarious moments in the lives of violated, abused incarcerated women and a desperate lying drug addict.

I still can't get over what that nasty, nasty addict Jackie did to poor Antoinette. Nasty, nasty woman.

What did she do R206?

[quote]What did she do [R206]?

Jackie met Antoinette at an AA meeting and Antoinette became Jackie's sponsor. Antoinette was an alcoholic who had killed her kid drink driving.

So they became close and Antoinette knew Jackie was lying about everything but kept trying to support her. Jackie knows that there's a risk Antoinette will let people know she's still using, so has to get her out of the way.

So Jackie tells Antoinette she knows that A knows she's still using and has booked herself into a rehab facility and asks Antoinette to go in with her. Antoinette agrees and they get drunk. They go to the rehab facility the next morning, both drunk, Antoinette signs her forms, and then Jackie straightens up - she had no intention of entering rehab, it was all to get Antoinette out of the way, so she got her to break her sobriety and sign herself in. Antoinette realises what she's done, she tries to attack Jackie, but the orderlies restrain her.

Nurse Jackie and Belinda Carlisle taught me to never, ever trust an addict.

I never saw Carry as a beloved character. Maybe a bit at the beginning, before SJP put her hands as a producer and played her as an extension of her ego.

R201 and gadgets and boats and takeout food and on and on and on. It is a fact that men, both straight and gay, single or married, have higher rates of personal debt than women but it's always women's spending habits that get scrutinized.

Men have to support themselves, they tend to carry more debt because of that.

R210 I think a supporting component of this is that pursuits that are traditionally taken up by men are seen as serious, worthwhile hobbies, culturally productive, this allows for larger budget allocations within a family. Whereas women’s pursuits are often characterized as silly or fluff. A bunch of men running around giving each other brain injuries is supposed to be so important (any contact sport) and worthwhile whereas intricate handwork (embroidery for instance) is derided as a waste of time.

A flash of her tits to the horny teen clerk could have got Carrie a free pair of Jimmy Choos!

Remember when Charlotte used to rub the foot fetish store owner in his crotch with her smelly feet to get free pairs of designer shoes? Wonder if she told Trey that?!

R211 getting into large personal debt doesn’t align with the concept of supporting yourself.

Uh, there a lot of men who are obsessed with shoes. Like, limited edition sneakers or kicks.

Every TV show about teens has at least one episode where the boys buy themselves some dope, kick ass sneakers from some famous NBA star's line of sneakers.

Lesbians have to support themselves yet have less debt than gay men, hmm wonder why that is? Also single women have to support themselves and have less debt than single men. Again, wonder why that is?

R215 interesting you mention that. I actually think it’s driven by the “collectors item” male compulsive behaviour that has existed for eons rather than an actual interest in shoes themselves. It’s a status symbol. The aesthetic value of the object isn’t what is important, it’s the idea of possession and how that gives you currency in relation to other men. And since you also mention it, these shoes that the straight man-boys want are typically a sports collab.

Men tend to have advanced degrees and higher loans.

Advanced degrees= higher income= lower debt. Except with men of course. It seems all manner of personal responsibility flies out the window with men

R218 do you know what ‘rates’ means? It’s a comparison of the use of available debt.

Well R220, R218 didn't say he had an advanced degree himself, what do you expect

[quote] Men have to support themselves, they tend to carry more debt because of that.

Do you know how many grown men live with their parents until they get married, or sometimes forever?

r217. The point is that men and women are not so different when it comes to using their shoe collection as an attempt to impress their peers. The shoe's practical purpose (sport vs. evening wear) may be gender specific, but it's to impress.

Men have more pressure on them to succeed. They can't just marry someone and run up debt on the other person's credit cards like women can.

[quote]Do you know how many grown men live with their parents until they get married, or sometimes forever?

Do you know how many grown women stop working the minute they get married? Or if they continue to work they blow through their husband's money instead of using their own? They use their pussies as a way to get paid.

Carrie and Miranda are cunts. Samantha and Charlotte were the two nicest ones. They remained true to themselves. Carrie and Miranda?Self centered cunts who were also control freaks.

R223 my point was that it’s very different. Women buy shoes that make them look good, there’s a direct relationship between the object’s appearance and materials to the function. These hypebeast guys buy shoes that have the required model number. It’s to do with an acquisition. Which separates the relationship between the objects function and what it is doing for the consumer.

Except that single women can't either, or lesbians R224. But you keep pretending men drive up debt for women even though gay men do the same as straight. It's kind of cute the way you won't admit how wrong you are

R225 do you know how many men are hired ahead of more qualified women because of the ‘boys club’ mentality setup within most employment structures? They use their penises as a way to get paid.

I love how R225 claims that there are women who stop working when they get married.

Where are these women? In today's world no one can afford to live on a single salary. Women stopping work when they get married? That is as fake as the careers of the characters on SATC.

R225 oh give me a fucking break, as if twinks don't marry old men all the time for money.

Carrie Sadshaw got her gig as a Sex Columnist by blowing the Old Boy's Club at The New York Star!

Remember when Carrie pissed on Charlotte's engagement by slapping her post-it from Burger over her engagement ring. Total skank!

r226, partially disagree. Miranda may be a cunt, but she'd also be a good friend. She doesn't use people, and she'll call your shit out (and expect the same from you).

Carrie, obviously, is a terrible friend.

Samantha would probably be a good friend (perhaps more of the social flitter who comes in and out of your world). Charlotte, though "nice," would never be a good friend unless you also conformed to her rose-colored expectations of life (especially in the early seasons). She'd judge the fuck out of you but, when pressed, would cave and give another of her shitty friends tens of thousands of dollars without a loan agreement. She's both weak and a judgmental shrew.

[quote] [R223] my point was that it’s very different. Women buy shoes that make them look good, there’s a direct relationship between the object’s appearance and materials to the function. These hypebeast guys buy shoes that have the required model number. It’s to do with an acquisition. Which separates the relationship between the objects function and what it is doing for the consumer.

Bullshit. Women buy these expensive shoes to get NOTICED. Guys buy their limited edition shoes to get NOTICED while showing them off. It's all about impressing their peers. You think women and men HIDE these shoes and just wear them in the comfort of their homes?

I agree, Charlotte would only be friends if you were cool or socially important. She's a snob and dumb.

Men can be just as designer label obsessed as women.

[quote] [bold] Being associated with the brand [/bold]

[quote] Another reason men enjoy wearing designer clothes is being recognised or associated with a particular brand due to that brands image. For example, you may feel like you really love Armani due to their heritage and particular style therefore contributing to your identity. When people start associating you with a particular brand it can become pretty flattering and it helps build your image and confidence!

Men CAN be label obsessed but by and large they are not. If so it's mostly gay men. What men are obsessed with is the latest overpriced technology, overpriced flashy car, etc etc

R235 disagree. Many men than collect these sneakers don’t even take them out of the box - or they’re also used as display. It’s a different compulsion.

[quote] Men CAN be label obsessed but by and large they are not. If so it's mostly gay men. What men are obsessed with is the latest overpriced technology, overpriced flashy car, etc etc

And women CAN be label obsessed, your point? What I am objecting is that men's obsession with designer fashion is so incredly vastly different from women's obsession with designer fashion. And it's really not. You buy these things to set yourself apart from the rest of your peers and declare yourself superior by owning this particular piece of fashion.

I'm not the one you were arguing with R240

R65, agreed that it is of its time. I found it entertaining when I watched it during the original series. When I tried to rewatch it a few years ago, I stopped after a few episodes. I could not wonder what I'd seen in it in the first place.

The show is definitely dated. In my opinion, the show really became popular because it really hyped the high-fashion element which, back in the day, was well-accepted by most Americans. And it was kind of cool because that kind of fashion was accessible and somewhat affordable to most middle-class people. Fast forward 20 years and that acceptance of fashion has majorly dwindled, so that aspect of the show just falls flat these days. And it comes across as majorly twee and girly to the point of being hackneyed. Owning expensive shoes or bags these days doesn't mean the same thing today as it once did, and to rewatch these women (who really, are way way way too old to be that obsessed with such things) gushing over such materialistic pursuits, especially to the extent they did, comes across as incredibly silly. I was watching a few episodes a few months back with my guy and it made me embarrassed for myself how vapid and into that crap I was. I was watching Will and Grace reruns and that show suffers from the same problem. W&G didn't shove it in its viewers' faces nearly as aggressively, but watching an old drunk rich gays and women tottering around in high-end garments really reeks of impropriety.

There's a difference between designer and high end garments though. High end garments look better and last longer. Designer clothes CAN be high end but they can also be cheap and look like shit

R244 you sound stuffy. Like you’d say “one must never wear black and navy together” and glance around hoping to see someone listening attentively. “Only the finest of fabrics” that kinda dumb shit.

R245 was such a witty and interesting contribution to the thread

I really liked the show. I know it was all fiction and silly, but I still hung with it, even the episodes with the Russian. The one time I really hated Carrie is when Aiden invited her to his cabin. All he wanted was to show off what he did and she spent the whole episode whining about nothing to do.

For me as a gay man the show and the movies are a guilty pleasure. I admit I freaked out watching the Liza Minnelli cameo in the second movie. For all the shade I throw at Carrie I devoured the show's DVDs. I even had the special boxset that came with the handbag and paid a ton of money for a special screener DVD that came in a plastic, pink laptop case.

The provides me with great entertainment even when I want to strangle Carrie for being so obnoxious.

Sorry, the show provides me with great entertainment ...

R233, this Carrie woman sounds awful! Carrie-Bradshaw?-fffff-hmmm. Riiiiiiiight?

[Quote] The one time I really hated Carrie is when Aiden invited her to his cabin. All he wanted was to show off what he did and she spent the whole episode whining about nothing to do.

Carrie then had the audacity to invite Big [italic] and [/italic] expect Aiden to be cool with it.

R22, they do sort of touch on it in the episode where Carrie is dating the politician (who wants her to pee on him), but only in a shallow way. Charlotte was definitely a Republican. And she keep bringing up a college crush on Dan Quayle until Carrie quips: "We pretty much tried to ignore that the first time". So I assume that Carrie wasn't a Republican. At a political fundraiser, Samantha comments to one woman that she's not about the Republican or the Democratic party, she's "just into parties". The woman walks away, rolling her eyes.

While it's just a line, it's a shame they tried to dumb down Samantha like that. In earlier seasons she seemed smarter and able to have conversations about things other than just sex (like her finances with that guy at the party where she ends up getting drunk and sleeping with Charlotte's doorman).

[quote] Samantha comments to one woman that she's not about the Republican or the Democratic party, she's "just into parties".

Samantha was also an event manager. I don't think she could afford to favor one political side in a public way. It would've screwed with her business and career.

That's a good point, R253!

Many intelligent people aren’t into Politics. Like I said, I always got the impression she would vote some random thing, like Libertarian, not Dem or REPUG. I know many who are that type.

Now that I am getting older, Miranda has replaced Samantha as my favorite. Miranda is a practical, reliable friend who also has a dry sense of humor that I like.

Is Carrie Jewish? This was something I thought maybe they hinted at that (her being at a bris,Matzah ball soup at the diner with the old lady who eats prozac ice cream). I always wondered if she came from some kind of money.

Samantha was in PR.

Oh yeah, for sure R255, I think it's just to me in that scene Samantha comes across as the joke in that situation, whereas earlier she was shown to be very capable of working a room, something she'd definitely need to be able to dofor her job. I mean, I laughed at the line, but they sure did start to cartoon-ify the characters over the show's run,

My pussy stinks.

R244 was that a response to another comment? It was after mine so don't know if it was referencing anything I said. I don't want to get into an argument over whether some brand is more quality than another (this isn't the thread for that). I was just simply suggesting that the show's high-end fashion focus, while appealing back then, really dates the show now due to American consumers' spending patterns changing. I'm all for buying nice things when the budget allows it. But the overt materialism of the characters really locks it into the late 90's/early 00's. When I watched the show and kept hearing the constant designer name dropping, I kept thinking of the scene in Ruthless People where Bette is trying on her kidnapper's wife's clothing and shouting out designer names in an attempt to guess who made the clothes.

The best of example of the type of person Carrie is, I feel, is in the clip below. On and on and on at Aiden about forgiving her and when he finally expresses his feelings that are less than complimentary of her, she turns and runs away, making the moment, once again, all about her. Reminds me a bit of that scene where she's on and on at Burger about something he doesn't like about her and when he finally says: "nice hat!" she immediately turns on her heel and gets pissy about it.

The best of example of the type of person Carrie is, I feel, is in the clip below. On and on and on at Aiden about forgiving her and when he finally expresses his feelings that are less than complimentary of her, she turns and runs away, making the moment, once again, all about her. Reminds me a bit of that scene where she's on and on at Burger about something he doesn't like about her and when he finally says: "nice hat!" she immediately turns on her heel and gets pissy about it.

Apologies for the double post, I swear I only hit the button once!

I wonder if those who want to emulate Carrie Bradshaw enter hotels the way she does, fingering the curtains and jauntily popping grapes in their mouths?

R256, being Jewish does not mean one comes from money.

You are going to say that it is not anti-Semitic to think that. But many will disagree.

Sorry, Carrie fans, I have the show memorized after all these years of it playing in the background and I assure you there was NEVER a moment that showed Carrie paying back Charlotte or even mentioning it again. Which would've been easy to do in the scene when she shows Berger the check ("Most of this goes to Charlotte but...")

Carrie was voted Most Popular Columnist in some NYC magazine so maybe she had enough fans to get a raise along the way from the paper. But her finances sounded pretty bleak when she was at the bank trying to get a loan.

He had no savings and was pretty much living paycheck to paycheck because of her lifestyle

She*

Aiden was too good for her

R266 which episode was she voted that? I don't remember..

R252 I chose to believe Sam said that as she didn't want to encourage any chit chat with non-sexy men at that party and enjoyed the chance to be flippant. Alongside Miranda I consider her the most capable and intelligent.

Charlotte was referred to as a straight A student but that's more about her being a goody-goody that naturally smart. I never heard Carrie or her discuss anything of high intellect.

She tells the unimpressed (but nice, at least) lady bank exec that she even beat Pete Hamill in the vote when she is trying to get a loan. It doesn't work.

Oh I remember now. Why would she ever think that would improve her chances of a loan?

God she's insufferable in that clip R264. Insufferable!

[quote] Sorry, Carrie fans, I have the show memorized after all these years of it playing in the background and I assure you there was NEVER a moment that showed Carrie paying back Charlotte or even mentioning it again. Which would've been easy to do in the scene when she shows Berger the check ("Most of this goes to Charlotte but...")

We know. It was already discussed in detail upthread.

Gosh in that Paris trip video with the sound off SJP never looked worse and her acting was ridiculous. And they really gave in to the fantasy, having Carrie living a super rich lifestyle far away from the gritty realism that made the show kinda relatable and interesting in the first few seasons. Gross.

Her giggling at being able to chirp out "merci beaucoup," and dancing on the terrace like an idiot only made her look like a total rube. Oh, sorry. A rube "New Yorker."

R269 you don’t sound too intelligent yourself

I just watched Hot Child in the City from Season 3. The most bizarre storyline now that I look at it again. Miranda is having terrible jaw pain and she finds out she's a tongue thruster in her sleep.

She gets braces (which seems like an odd treatment as opposed to wearing some kind of dental device while she sleeps) and, instead of getting invisaligns, which were around then, she gets regular ugly metal braces. After her insecurities get the best of her, she has the braces removed and decides to do nothing.

Who would spend thousands of dollars on braces and have them removed on a whim? Is she just gonna live with the jaw pain and the headaches? I clench my jaw in my sleep and I wear a night guard. I've been wearing one for 15 years. I can tell you that when I sleep without it (which doesn't happen often), I wake up in pain.

She has the heart of a child and her gamine, wide eyed delight is so charming in Paris! I’m sure the hardest, iciest Gallic heart was melted by her adorable antics and “mercis”.

"We know. It was already discussed in detail upthread."

I know, bitch, I'm the one who was discussing it originally.

R276 I agree, I should have said "She and Carrie never engaged in any insightful or intellectually stimulating conversation". Trey and Big must have been bored rigid.

R277 I saw it as just a cheap device to tie Miranda's story to the "teen" theme.

[quote] I know, bitch, I'm the one who was discussing it originally.

Then you should have realized it had been settled.

[quote][R277] I saw it as just a cheap device to tie Miranda's story to the "teen" theme.

Wasn't that also the episode where they went to a school canteen themed restaurant?

Subtlety wasn't always the show's strong points.

Regarding Carrie's political stance, didn't the politician ask her what voting district she belonged to and she said "Barney's??

Voting records from 1992

Carrie: Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry. Obama, Obama. Clinton, Biden

Samantha: Clinton, didn't vote as on sex weekend in Mexico, Gore didn't vote as working in Toronto, Obama, Obama. Clinton, Biden

Miranda: Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry. Obama, Obama. Clinton, Biden

Charlotte: Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush. Obama, Obama, Clinton, Biden

R285 Charlotte was certainly a Republican but not the bad kind. She’d be the type who hates Trump

The clip of Carrie in the hotel in Paris has me wondering something. It's off topic, but is it accurate to show her tipping the guy who shows her to her room? I know the US has a tipping culture, and maybe the writers just assumed you would do this everywhere, but I'm pretty sure France has excellent labour laws. I'm from a country where we pay a living minimum wage too, and we never tip, not even in a fancy hotel like this. But maybe you do in Paris? Anyone know?

What exactly is wrong with Carrie here? "What a delightful borough?" said with sarcasm. What does she have against cheesecake and cannoli? I mean, I'm gluten and lactose intolerant and I still don't have a problem with them. What a weird form of snobbery.

Carrie's snide remarks sound like your typical bitchy queen really

And people get tired of them pretty quickly in real life. It's a wonder Carrie has any friends left at all.

Has there ever been another TV character who was supposed to be the lovable one that the audience actually rooted for but years later, in retrospect, everyone suddenly realises "What A Cunt!"

Has there ever been another TV character who was supposed to be the lovable one that the audience actually rooted for but years later, in retrospect, everyone suddenly realises "What A Cunt!"

I am not sure I would want to spend much time with Lucy Ricardo, Samantha Stevens, or Ann Marie. All of them seem a bit self-involved and self -important. In other words, cunty.

Rewatching I Love Lucy a few years ago, I thought to myself "these days, Lucy Ricardo would probably be in a looney bin somewhere." She's obsessed with being a star even though she has no real talent and is always getting into insane schemes to try and get famous. She'd probably try to shoehorn her way into a Real Housewives franchise these days.

What I loved about Sex and the City at first was how the writers and actors seemed to know Carrie had major issues. She wasn't this quirky, adorable waif who just couldn't get it right. This was a severely damaged woman who we hoped would, one day, make the right choice, move on from Big, and find happiness. When she cheated on Aidan, it was a big turning point. They could either make her a tragic anti-heroine who was doomed to never be happy because of her lingering feelings for Big or they could shrug it off and sweep it under the rug and pretend like it never happened. Unfortunately, the picked the latter and the show suffered for it. They simply doubled down on her adorable quirkiness and made her out to be some aspirational heroine which was a horrible choice.

I wonder what would have happened to Carrie in more capable hands. I always thought the show should have ended with her alone, but still hopeful about getting her shit together.

Yeah, it was so horrible that they made those changes and with it the ratings went up and the show became more mainstream and global.

Those flaws are actually a big part of the show's success. Like "Girls", they kept things interesting.

R294 yes, if Carrie rejects Big when he comes to Paris, that would show some sort of growth and movement from self-destructive relationships to valuing herself more. But the writers made her completely self-destructive and lacking any sense of self-esteem. She loves Big’s unavailability emotionally and craves that. The way they ended her story arc was kinda like Seinfeld—no growth whatsoever, just sort of juvenile and stuck in the same loop. A bummer, because the other women changed and grew somewhat. Carrie was doomed to be Ramona Singer from RHONY—a desperate 60-something flirting with men and with no real friends but tons of acquaintances. The other women would’ve dropped her as a friend at some point, I’d imagine.

Carrie's book titles are shite, who reads that muck?

Carrie in Paris was the absolute lowest. Her speech at the end with the Russian made my hair stand on end. The only parts I liked were how the Russian's daughter sneered at her and when she stepped in dog shit with her white stilettoes.

After having a wife as played by Carole Bouquet, how could he have even looked at Carrie? The only thing she had going for her was that she was 15 years younger than him.

Big's wives were superior as well.

I thought Big and Charlotte might have worked out as couple.

Agreed in the ending. Like most feminist enterprises, save for "Private Benjamin", they preached independence for years and then made sure every woman ended up not just with a man but with a RICH man. So Smith can't be a struggling actor, he has to be a movie star with a beach house. Harry owns the law firm. Mr. Big, well. Even Steve can't just be a bartender, he has to own the bar. Total bullshit.

I think Carrie would be more likely to end up like Sonja Morgan, R297: the broke put-out-to-pasture third wife of some cheesy old money geezer. Trying to seem unbothered by the fact that the she’s never invited anywhere anymore. Squeezing herself into whatever designer frocks still fit and finagling discounted facelifts. Cracking obvious jokes, yammering on about the nineties and talking about sex instead of having it.

I think she’d rather like being put out to pasture.

Remember when Carrie couldn’t stop speaking about how amazing she is after breaking up with Big and the girls tell her to see a Shrink but she’s closed minded to it. She needed a live in therapist

I rewatched the series about 6 years ago when I was in a very Carrie/Big type relationship with a man I was madly in love with but who used me in a similar way. We'd break up, he'd go off with someone else for a month, break it off, and come crawling back to me. This happened about 4 times and I was really relating to Carrie a lot. When you're obsessed with someone like that, it's hard to cut them loose and I'd be lying if I said I didn't still think about him all the time.

Thankfully, I found someone wonderful and didn't fuck it up. I wish Carrie had been able to do the same. I know it sucks, but move on. He's not that into you.

Charlotte should have kicked Carrie the fuck out of her place after Carrie STORMS IN, then starts an argument with her for not offering the money.

Granted, Charlotte should have played it cooler at dinner, but Carries mess is not Charlottes responsibility. I can’t believe she had the nerve to storm in there like that to berate Charlotte and make her feel guilty. I would have cussed her out.

Maybe she should stop spending so much on clothes and shoes and eating out and then she will have more money! And why was she even at dinner if she can’t afford it?! I bet one of the girls had to pay for that too.

Carrie only had 2 windows in that shoebox apartment. It must have reeked of her sweaty feet, cigs and cosmo farts.

R303 that was absurd, there was nothing fabulous about her.

R299, I love that scene where Carrie meets Alek's daughter! The actress playing Chloe is awesome. She's looking at Carrie the whole time like many of us on this thread probably would want to if we met her in real life. The only time she smiles is when she realises Carrie doesn't speak French. I wish someone would put that clip up on YouTube. It's been cut out of the clip of Carrie in Paris above, but is inbetween those two scenes.

R305, here's an interesting idea... when do we think in real life the other three would've dumped Carrie as a friend? Charlotte definitely after the time you mention here; where Carrie storms to her apartment and confronts her about not offering her money. It always galls me how she uses that line: "You weren't being there for me when I have ALWAYS been there for you" (paraphrased). She uses that again in another episode or two and it's so annoying because Carrie is THE person who dumps her friends the moments she has a man.

So yes, I think Charlotte would've been gone then. Any ideas on the others?

Cosmo farts 😂

Samantha would have dumped her after she got judgmental about walking in on her giving head to the UPS guy.

Miranda would have had enough of her after the comment about the ring she helped Aidan pick out.

^ Great examples. Sometimes I think Miranda should've stopped talking to her after Carrie decided to catch up with Big yet again and Miranda and her had a huge fight about it in the second-hand clothes store.

[quote] Sometimes I think Miranda should've stopped talking to her after Carrie decided to catch up with Big yet again and Miranda and her had a huge fight about it in the second-hand clothes store.

Oh, yes! I was torn between that one and the one I chose and I decided to go with the situation that affected Miranda directly.

In real life, there isn’t usually a single event that ends the friendship. People drift apart because their lives change. It is more likely that they would start seeing each other less when Charlotte got married, Miranda moved to Brooklyn and Samantha moved to LA, and then one day Carrie realizes that she hasn’t seen her former best friends for fifteen years.

Charlotte is definitely the type “not that this isn’t fun, but since we got married, Harry and I want to spend more time with other married couples.” She’d probably try to set the others up with Harry’s single friends, and when it doesn’t work, starts hanging out more with his married friends and drops her single girlfriends altogether.

As for Carrie, I’ve recently encountered one in real life, so I can tell exactly what happens. She’s still obsessed with Big, who is nearly broke because of the bad investment and keeps her around for her connections. She made it almost to the top of her chosen field - almost, because there is an aura of desperation and bitterness about her that makes people wary. Her girlfriends have long since moved on with their lives, and when they meet once or twice a year, they listen politely to her ramblings and have a moment of “I can’t believe we’re still talking about this after so many years.” By now it is obvious to all that it’s all kinds of twisted and unhealthy, but she’s not yet ready to face the truth. She’s this close to becoming an angry old cat lady, except she doesn’t care for cats or any other living being.

[Quote] except she doesn’t care for cats or any other living being.

We definitely saw that with Aiden's dog.

All of this sounds true. I was also thinking that after Miranda had her baby, she would have far less time to be hanging out with the girls, no matter what. And once Charlotte married Harry, that would have been the end for her. In fact, she would have run screaming the other way.

I might just be an anti-social cunt, but outside of college, I don't remember ever hanging around with ANY friends the way that these broads did. Maybe it's a female thing? I also never had a gaggle of gay friends. I had one best friend with whom I'd do a lot of stuff with, but that lasted a matter of maybe three years or so before we began to grow apart and now if we see each other twice a year it's a lot.

I agree with the posts above. I'd also add that if any of the friendships were going to last, I would put money on Charlotte and Miranda, due to them both becoming mothers at roughly the same time. I've seen this happen a few times with various friendship groups from my 20s: girls in those groups who weren't as close with each other as they were with other girls, suddenly became the best of friends once they both have children.

Given Charlotte's personal values, in real life I bet she would've been reconsidering their friendship even earlier, from the moment she found out about Big cheating on his wife with Carrie:

R317 don't forget what she did to those poor fighter cocks that kept her awake!

But if we have to pinpoint throughout the series, how about right after Charlotte lends Carrie €30k and gers a promise of payback as soon as she can, Carrie gets a super expensive haircut and buys strappy sandals at €400 to have her night out with Big. Carrie learned nothing from almost losing her home.

Miranda after Carrie sends Aidan to help her after she injures her neck, or when she is struggling to cope after her baby is born and Carrie calls her up (as she's getting ready to go to WORK) to obsess over Nina Katz. Or when she lied to her face about cheating with newly married Big.

Samantha after the UPS guy slut shaming or when she won't help sort her orange Bush (Samantha fished Carrie's diaphragm out of her cooter after all)!

There are many episodes where Carrie could have lost her friend.

R318 who do you do stuff with now?

That time Miranda said she was so sick of their dumb men talk and walked out should have been the end for her.

Could you imagine if the shows focus had been about Miranda how different and frankly how much better the show would have aged? But at the same time what a throughly minor character Carrie would have turned out to be.

I always loved the relationship between Charlotte and Miranda. I always thought it was the most genuine.

I like the Charlotte/Samantha "Thanks for fucking my brother" friendship. Or the episode where Charlotte calls Sam to dish about Trey finally getting it up.

Some of you have never had real friendships and close bonds with others, and it shows. They were not acquaintances, they were FRIENDS, and you do not cut someone you have been so close to for years over one or two mishaps. Charlotte is not gonna cut her off for good for one thing. It would probably have to be something that continues to happen over a period of time for them to finally be done with her, and that would be after expressing what is bothering them etc.

Miranda, Charlotte, and Samantha are not characters you build a series off of.

R328= SJP

Yeah, they covered this anyway when Charlotte got sick of Samantha's crude adventures and went back to her upscale college friends and they were shrews and bores. And Samantha met another crude one and hated her eventually.

The movies weren't great but they definitely showed they were friends, not just acquaintances. Some of you do that "people come into your life for a season" bullshit too well. I still have good friends from college (and, yes, some that flaked out along the way so it does happen -- and I'm a guy).

That woman Samantha met wasn't just crude, she was sucking strangers off under tables at expensive bars.

she isnt beloved.....samantha was the star.

[quote]except she doesn’t care for cats or any other living being.

Remember the episode at Aidan's country house where she's screams every time a squirrel comes around?

She locked Elizabeth Taylor in the utility room at Charlotte's so she wouldn't piss over her ugly wedding dress!

r333 she was so obnoxious and annoying AND INCONSIDERATE. And, I am sorry, but do squirrel's not exist in NYC? I do not get it

Didn't Aidan have indoor plumbing?

What about when she beat Big over the head with her flowers and declared "I AM HUMILIATED!"

Sweetie, you are humiliating your own self.

I loved when she gets robbed and runs into the salon, expecting everyone to come running to her and being worried, but no one cared.

Don't forget that episode where Carrie smugly reveals she's comfortable enough to take a smelly shite at Big's apartment and the girls celebrate like its an accomplishment.

Attack of the Crones at 337

r337 That entire scene is fucking hilarious.

Didn't they make a big deal about Aiden's country house being in Suffern so that Carrie could make a lot of pathetic puns, but it turns out Suffen is actually a modest sized city?

[quote] [R318] who do you do stuff with now?

No one, really. Pre-COVID, I might see a movie with someone maybe once or twice a year, but I pretty much do everything by myself. I have more friends in NYC these days than I do in LA. When I'm in NYC I may meet up with people to eat out or see a show, but a lot of times I'll do stuff on my own there, too.

[quote] Some of you have never had real friendships and close bonds with others, and it shows. They were not acquaintances, they were FRIENDS, and you do not cut someone you have been so close to for years over one or two mishaps.

Sure you do. I would say the older one gets, the less patience one has for people's bullshit. I just dropped a very close friend of over 10 years this Spring because I got tired of his behavior. He also owes me money, and it was becoming increasingly clear I was never going to see it. (Charlotte, take a lesson.) I miss talking to him, but I sure don't miss putting up with him.

Charlotte in the early seasons often seems like the odd one one, and I mean, intentionally she seems like that. If you notice, whenever the girls are talking about the past, she is always left to ask: "who's that?", and she isn't in the flashbacks that were in the earlier episodes either. Then for a lot of the time you do get the feeling she is perhaps hanging with the girls only until her man comes along; there's even an episode where she tells them she's reading a book about how she needs to stop hanging around with "dysfunctional single women" and thinks she's going to spend more time with her married friends. At some point she seemed to grow up and view the others as being closer friends than she did before. This is all in my reading of it, anyway.

"Voilà le french hat! Voilà le french fry!"

(to be fair, Carrie is fucking annoying, but I do sort of feel for her here, having gone into situations myself full of excitement and optimism to end up receiving a cold shoulder like that. I never acted like a crazy person like her though.)

Oh please. How many times do you have to be hit over the head by a 2X4? Big showed her a million times over and over who he was and she chose to ignore it. She never ever evolved.

And after all that they permitted Carrie to become bored of a more sedate life with the man she chased for 12 years in that second movie (in search of a plot).

Come on, I know she was flawed but Sarah Jessica Parker made Carrie far more likeable than she could've been, lots of cool touches and laughs and moments that made me smile. She is great. Imagine that same role in the wrong hands, say, Mia Kushner, and how nasty she could've been.

But imagine what Dana Delaney would have done with the part. Sarah Jessica Parker made the part unlikeable by playing the narcissism without humor.

If Delaney had accepted the role, I think she would have found the humor in the self-involvement. In fact, most actresses would have found a way to show us the insecurity under Carrie's selfishness. Parker went stridently into it, which would have been more appropriate for a heavier drama or a second lead. But as the lead in a comedy, it made for a hard to like character. Even in the 90s, no one liked Carrie and tuned in for the strong supporting cast.

Interesting. I find Delaney dull and with no real hook but I get your take on it.. Sarah had moments I loved, though -- like her uncontained cackle on "Miranda dated an overeater and he overate her!" And I found her self-effacing, actually, love that she hated her nose and her inability to relax with men because of her cliched absent dad. The tears as she kissed the New Yankee, etc. When the writing was great, Parker was great. She only flopped on bad lines like "It's a relationship, not a timeshare" (and there was usually one like this per episode, it seemed, especially from one female writer).

But doesn't the entertainment come from the fact that Carrie is completely oblivious of being such a selfish cunt without even a hint of self awareness? Even after Miranda tells her off it's business as usual afterwards. Carrie never grew as a person, her sidekicks did.

IMO SJP was really good as portraying Carrie having some sort of Peter Pan syndrome where Carrie stayed true to her self absorbed cunt self. Even when you think the Russian could finally provide some personal growth the show's balance is restored with Big giving her an out to go back being her usual self without ever having learned a single lesson in the whole show's run.

Dana Delaney is a shit actress who somehow managed a middling career with little talent and zero charisma. She would have been a terrible Carrie.

[Quote] Imagine that same role in the wrong hands, say, Mia Kushner, and how nasty she could've been.

I still hate Jenny to this day. Can't believe fans wanted her back for the reboot.

I can believe there were any fans left for the reboot.

R355 anything is possible lol

I think you meant Mia Kirschner, and she did a great job as Jenny on the L Word—the script writers, however....terrible flip-flopping of her personality from season to season.

Andy Cohen literally just asked Stacy Abrams and Alanna Glazer on WWHL whether Carrie should’ve ended up with big a few nights ago. Makes me think he lurks on DL, because we had just talked about Carrie and the Big ending a day or two before WWHL. This thread has been very active. Either that or this was an interesting coincidence.

Sort of off-topic but is LA Story worth watching??

she aint beloved. we watch out of disbelief than any woman could be so shallow, dumb , fake and fugly....omg her equine face.

Oh god, I couldn't even imagine watching this show all over again. I was never sure why I even watched it in the first place since I always hated the show's gays, but I guess there's no denying in small doses it was a fun little show. I remember trying to watch the first movie and and realizing what utter crap it was I fastforwarded through it and never returned there.

And yes, Carrie Bradshaw was a self-centered little girl playing a grown-up without a real job which probably made her a total role model for certain type of females.

CB is beloved because she embodies so many core values of modern society. Undeserved vanity. Consumption beyond one’s means. The self at the expense of all others.

Yet the show was developed with Delaney in mind. And honestly, the show did okay with a charisma-free actress in the lead, so how much worse would Delaney have been?

I am forgetting the other actress who turned it down. I want to say Elizabeth Shue, but maybe someone else has a better memory.

I thought Carrie was relatable when Darren Star was in control. When Michael Patrick King took a lot went over the top.

I always quote this (a review of the damnable movie but the demise of good writing on the show, you ask me): It is 146 minutes long, which means that I entered the theater in the bloom of youth and emerged with a family of field mice living in my long, white mustache. This is an entirely inappropriate length for what is essentially a home video of gay men playing with giant Barbie dolls.

I know it's off topic but as The L Word and Jenny Schecter were mentioned above, I have to say that I recently rewatched the original series and Mia Kirschner played the fuck out of that character. I thought she did a tremendous job, especially with the writing inconsistencies. I never hated Jenny though, even though her type of character would've been a nightmare to be around in real life. She was seriously, seriously fucked up, and the entire series is pretty much just watching her self-destruct. I felt for her a lot in the first season, her fish-out-of-water feelings were very identifiable. Anyway, I just wanted to give Mia some love for a very hard job she had to do and in my opinion did very well.

Why? Do you really need to ask?

Because whilst they struggle with kitchen table issues, baby poo and vomit, boring husbands, inadequate and increasingly infrequent sex, budgets inadequate to anything but what is in reality an upper working-class life with middle-class pretensions, they look at Carrie and see someone whose unapologetic narcissism, cynicism, and opportunism, yet with very little resembling real talent, have provided her with a life consisting mostly of flitting about the (formerly) buzzed up environs of the Upper East Side and adjacent fleshpots of Manhattan in designer clothes, ridiculous shoes, interested in nothing but sex and money, and spending what appears to be mystifyingly little to earn it.

For what it's worth, I know working women who do live in Manhattan, not Middle America, who despise Carrie Bradshaw because her life no more resembles their schleps back and forth to boring office jobs on the subways than it does Middle American women whose lives are consumed by making ends meet and wiping up baby poo and vomit (see supra).

Did Carrie invent the obnoxious phrase, "my gays"? I'm sure many straight white women ended up furious, perplexed and a bit humiliated when they walked into a gay club and were completely ignored by everybody except the most pretentious, vapid queens.

Did Carrie invent the obnoxious phrase, "my gays"? I'm sure many straight white women ended up furious, perplexed and a bit humiliated when they walked into a gay club and were completely ignored by everybody except the most pretentious, vapid queens.

R362: It was Mädchen Amick, who, in her youth as Carrie, would be a believable man-magnet. She explains why she turned it down below:

Madchen Amick as Carrie Fairchild in Central Park West was fantastic. CPW imo was the best of the nighttime soaps until Raquel Welch (channeling Mae West or reprising her role as Myra Breckinridge) came aboard and destroyed it. Available to stream on Daily Motion.

I saw an SATC tour bus when I was visiting a friend in Jersey City. We were sightseeing in Manhattan when one of the buses drove by. I wanted to pelt it with eggs. Filled with frau lemmings, sheep. I loathed them all.

Yeah, I like "L Word" a lot too, just watched it years after its time, and Mia is fine -- though nobody could overcome when they made her a shallow twit out of nowhere. I think she ruined her career early (a) when she dropped out of "Kids" because she had too many demands and gave us Chloe S. and her much bigger career instead and (b) when she did that awful comedy when she talked about having her chest shit on. I cringed and never looked at her the same again.

Parker has the lightness and the self-effacing thing (see her work in "Ed Wood" where she even says, "Do I really look like a horse?"). Amick could've worked although she never showed much range. Carrie being a little off in her looks made women like her too. Worst would've been a modern day Bess Armstrong or some other humorless WASP. Can't even think of the modern equivalent.

Nio mention of Sandra Bernhard being first choice for Miranda? Or is that just a myth?

[quote] Did Carrie invent the obnoxious phrase, "my gays"? I'm sure many straight white women ended up furious, perplexed and a bit humiliated when they walked into a gay club and were completely ignored by everybody except the most pretentious, vapid queens.

No, it was Kathy Griffin. I don't believe Carrie Bradshaw ever said that.

She treated Stanford and Marcus like toys.

Did SJP get the no-nudity clause before or after the Pilot?

[Quote] and (b) when she did that awful comedy when she talked about having her chest shit on. I cringed and never looked at her the same again.

I seriously doubt Not Another Teen Movie had that big of an effect on her career.

Amick would have been too pretty. I read her more as a Charlotte.

I do think SJP's average looks were what made her more relatable in the role. If Carrie had been this bombshell, she wouldn't have been as relatable to "normal" folks and it might have made her seem more like Charlize Theron in Young Adult and you'd have hated her even more, because you sit there and say "bitch, you're gorgeous. Grow up, get some therapy, and settle down with someone who could actually love you."

If Amick had been Carrie it would have made the constant fawning and coos of "you're so fabulous" a lot more believable.

Amick would not have been right as Carrie, and sorry, but we were supposed to believe Carrie was a bombshell.

The humor comes from the fact that Carrie is played by someone who isn't super pretty. It's the absurd humor that makes it so entertaining. At least for me. I love Mädchen Amick, but she would made the franchise less entertaining by being more straight forward and believable.

Sorry, she would have made the franchise less entertaining ...

We weren't supposed to believe Carrie was a bombshell, but she was treated as one? Uh, Ok!

Apparently when she was cast SJP explicitly confirmed she was willing to nudity.

Flash forward to the execs viewing of the pilot producers generally like it but want to spice it up so they get attention and live up to the name. They want a reshoot of Carrie topless during the scene where she's getting her box eaten by an ex.

SJP refuses. They're stuck. They can't afford to reshoot the pilot with a new actress and still make the release date. They have no choice but to concede to Parker and go on.

The writers in turn have to give what would have been SJPs nudity quota to the other girls, who had originally be told these scenes will be minimal.

The producers were obviously fuming but got their own back during the first season by inserting embarrassing scenes (Carrie mistaken 4 a hooker, Big embarrassed to be seen in public with her as she's a dog, farting in bed, cock drawn on her bus poster etc)

Juicy info R381

r381 that is a lie. Producers, Execs and the cast have all said she had a no nudity clause from the start, and her being the main character and already a name in Hollywood, they were okay with that.

Kristen Davis also had a no nudity clause but when approached about a specific scene she was willing to do a quick flash

R383 that's what they said to the press to cover up the fact they were mislead.

Charlotte had her tits accidentally included due to camera angles in a scene where she fingers her pussy in front of Trey. They left it in the final edit. The other time is when she flashed her left tit at a sailor.

R371, I can't find the clips now, but I've seen interviews where Sandra talks about it and it's definitely true. I'm not completely certain of the next thing I'm about to say because I can't find the clips, but it did sound to me like she was attached to the programme before SJP was.

The reason she said she didn't do it was because they couldn't pay her enough. She said none of the girls got paid much to be on the show until the movies and I that Sandy felt her standing at the time meant it would be bad for her long term to show she was willing to take a lower paying role.

She said something like "if only I'd known, but we didn't know then. And anyway, I would've had to put up with Sarah Jessica and all her bullshit". That's paraphrasing, but it's the gist of it. It's fascinating to me how SJP generally seems to have a good reputation but every now and then these comments are made by random people, alluding to something more going on beneath the surface.

SJP's feud with Kim Catrall is well known. And if reports are to be believed all Kim did was ask for more money for her AND the other two girls who abandoned her when Sarah got snippy and used her producer credit clout to make it more difficult for Kim on set.

^That's where I really sympathise with Kim too... it wasn't like she was behaving like a diva and demanding she should get more money because of Samantha's popularity or anything; she was asking for [italic]all[/italic] the women to have an equal share, and to try and stand up for others and then be left hanging must've been hard. Though I'm not sure if she took it to heart particularly seeing as she always seems to be fairly friendly towards Cynthia even now. Probably understands that she would've had more standing to make a fuss than either Nixon or Davis would've.

R371, it is interesting that you bring up Ed Wood where SJP's part was cut considerably because she could not act it.

(By the way, the real Dolores Fuller REALLY looked like a horse.)

If SJP hadn't lied to the producers or actually did nudity we might have been spared more of the random Miranda boobage

Why was SJP against the other girls getting more money. Sure, she was the nominal lead, but it really was an ensemble show.

[quote]She is the most selfish, self-centered narcissist that I have ever seen. She’s all about “me me me” and God forbid any of her friends have a problem without her making it about herself.

You answered your own question. The loved her because most white women are just like that.

Does anyone look at Christine Marinoni (Rojo Caliente) and think - Cynthia Nixon is married to a human version of her own breast?

[quote]She treated Stanford and Marcus like toys.

They were gay Stepin Fetchits for real. When Carrie was dating the politician and Stanford asked her about his hot assistant and when she found out that the assistant was gay, but not interested in Stanford, Carrie told Stanford that he wasn't gay...bullshit. How dare she!!! And he was dumb enough to believe her. It was all about making Carrie a Magical Fag Hag who protected her gays from hurt.

And don't get me started on the Stanford and Anthony's wedding in the SATC 2 movie...one gay movie reviewer said that a good friend of his wanted everyone in the movie to catch AIDS. I had to laugh at that shit.

That's a very nasty thing to say, even in a bitchy review.

Going back to earlier posts, I will admit that Charlotte had nicer tits than Miranda, she should have stepped up more to cover for SJP's lack of nudity.

I thought that Kristin was the most beautiful of all the SATC cast, SJP of course, being the least. She hid it well with killer hair and clothes.

I always thought Miranda was the most beautiful and had one killer body! I'd eat her pussy til doomsday!

SAME REASON MR ED WAS BELOVED HONEY

To the poster who said SJP was a star and had the power to refuse nudity and choose her terms for playing Carrie, please name any of her movies which were a box office hit? I checked and I can't see any.

And most had bad reviews too. By 1998 she had all but exhausted her chances in movies and was reduced to supporting, character parts (which actually suited her better). She was a huge find.

L.A. Story

Honeymoon in Vegas

Hocus Pocus.

And though she was not a lead, First Wives Club

I seem to recall that when it started SJP was considered the big name star of the leading cast.

R399

LA Story she was supporting and it only made €25m. Flop

Vegas, crap reviews and made €35m against a €25m budget. Flop

Hocus Pocus, €41m against a €28m budget. Disappointment.

Sarah was well on her way to C list when she got SATC

r401. What's your point? Had the other gals better and more successful careers than SJP? From them all SJP had probably the most name recognition, then Kim Catrall, Kristen Davis was probably mostly known for her Melrose Place role and Cynthia Nixon was mainly theater.

"Ed Wood' beyond respected Oscar winning film. 'Square Pegs" big cult hit on TV. "State and Main" by Mamet criticaL indie hit.

I know of no one tht watched it for her, Samantha was the STAR

Listen she pushed herself as a starlet and all her "Hollywood" movies before SATC failed. She was 32 and not getting big parts when she got "Carried away"..

R402

R402 I was countering R383 who claimed SJP was a "Hollywood name" whose star power the Execs were so desperate for they willingly let the star of their daring, sex based new HBO show have no-nudity in her contract.

I think what's being skipped over here is that in 1997, HBO had not established itself as an original series powerhouse. Its hits were The Larry Sanders Show, and to a much lesser degree, Dream on and Arliss. Stars were not clamoring to be in HBO series. Getting SJP was something of a coup for them, so they were willing to negotiate.

Had Carrie been in her early or mid 20's during the show, I think people wouldn't have been as tough on her. That's when most people make those big mistakes and try to go after their Mr. Bigs. It was the fact that she was still doing this when she was pushing 40 that was sad.

It's like the character of Sally Bowles in Cabaret. Cast her with an 18-29 year old and you're still sort of on her side, but cast her with someone older than that and she gets more and more pathetic with each year you add.

If sjp was not a bigger star then the other women then how did she manage to make more money than them? How did she manage to get a clause that required no nudity? Whether you like it or not sjp was the biggest star when the show started and still has the most name recognition after. FACT.

SJP was much better known than the others. Kristin Davis was the only one who came close. I was a Kim Catrell fan for years and NO ONE had heard of her back then. Nixon was best known for being in two Broadway plays at once about ten years earlier.

[quote] I was a Kim Catrell fan for years and NO ONE had heard of her back then.

Don't be ridiculous. Kim had had a 20+ year career at that point and was known the world over for Porky's, Mannequin and Police Academy, all of which were huge hits.

Those kim cattralll movies were decades old by the time sex and the city came out. SJP was a bigger star, hence she was the lead, hence she parlayed that into a producer credit, hence she made more money

R412, Catrell has a good career, but no one remembered the names of the actors in Porkys. She was one of those "whatername" actors.

Porkys and Mannequin did not get you an interview in the Times or feature in people. It did not get you seen at the Oscars. Catrell was whatsername in a few low-rent hits. It was not the same as an above the title credit in a film with name stars.

You claim to be a huge fan of Cattrall's yet you've spelled her name wrong three times.

[quote] Those kim cattralll movies were decades old by the time sex and the city came out. SJP was a bigger star, hence she was the lead, hence she parlayed that into a producer credit, hence she made more money

They were hardly decades old. SATC was shot in 1997.

God, some of you people are so fucking stupid.

I had seen both Catrall and Parker in movies prior to SATC. I've never watched Melrose. To me, Cattrall was more famous on name alone, but Parker had the more recent films.

Being inspired by the recent threads on Sex and the City here, I just watched the first six episodes of season three. I will say, in the beginning of season three I was actually ok with Carrie. She wasn't terrible, and we were back with the more gritty feeling of those earlier seasons too. I wondered if she was more palatable because she was single/dating minor characters in these episodes. The show is horribly dated, but you know, I was ok.

Then came that horrific "Boy, Girl, Boy, Girl" episode. It's not just that it's dated, it was awful at the time it aired. There's a contemporary review of it at Television Without Pity, then known as Mighty Big TV which I'll add here. I remember seeing this at the time and thinking it was really offensive. And it's not just Carrie, the other storylines are terrible too. Carrie is so bloody irritating, smugly going on about New Yorkers and how jaded they are and have seen everything, and then she gets horrified by... a bisexual boyfriend? She's the utter, utter worst! Whoever wrote this one is a terrible writer.

And unfortunately it's not an outlier, because the very next episode was the one where Samantha dates a black man and his sister hates her because she's white. Oof, this show! I used to love it!

Carrie was surprisingly provincial in her attitudes toward bisexuality and psychotherapy.

I actually think that the materialism in the show has aged the best. Thanks to social media, everyone wants to stunt online and present a luxury lifestyle. My niece wanted to get a Chanel bag for her birthday - why? Because her favorite influencer has one. She is 15 and knows more about luxury/beauty brands that I do.

I am friends with some fashion influencers (I knew them before they got famous online) who get paid 50k just for posting a stupid photo on Instagram of a product that sells out in 1 hour. Their fans buy everything they are promoting and want to be just like them. It is all about consuming, consuming, consuming. Even during Covid. Materialism is over? Not really.

[quote] Carrie was surprisingly provincial in her attitudes toward bisexuality and psychotherapy.

I never wanted to slap her harder than during the "why do people telling me NOW that I should've done backups?" story after her laptop died on her. How was that woman even alive? She was so stupid, naive, and ignorant.

r471, In Trump's America being a social media influencer can pay your bills (and then some) if you play your cards right. It's not like regular jobs with decent pay are waiting for Millennials and Generation X any time soon.

Of course, I think it's a problem for these younger generation to be so eager to buy expensive designer label stuff they see being promoted on the internet. I think at some point social media has to flag social media influencer accounts as not appropriate for younger, easy impressionable social media users.

So, did the 15 year old niece get the Chanel bag?

r424, hell no! She can buy it herself when she has a job and makes her own money.

For a sex columnist, Carrie was indeed such a prude. That was strange and lot of people commented on that even back then when the show was on.

Was it ever mentioned where Carrie grew up?

why dint parker get her chin sawed down like other stars.....rumer willis and bethenny frankel (her jaws sawed off alot)

Is that why Frankel has such a weird jawline?

SJP's best film to date is THE FAMILY STONE. But it was an ensemble film and everyone else in it was as good as her or even better.

She should start wearing gloves because her hands frighten little children.

Here's a question based on one of those season 3 episodes. In the second ep where the politician wants Carrie to pee on her, she's discussing this while waiting in a line for something with the other girls and Samantha says: "I peed on a guy once, but it was an accident", and then Charlotte says: "I once had to stop eating meat for 3 months."

We were watching this like: "What?" What does this mean? None of us could work it out.

Someone wanted her to poop on them? Or maybe she is just being clueless and not getting the kink of the conversation.

Or maybe Charlotte is saying she stopped eating meat because a guy asked her to???

It's such a weird line, isn't it? Like, if none of us can say obviously what she meant, it's pretty bad writing of course, but beyond that it's kinda surreal.

Maybe it was to show that Charlotte didn't have a wild sexual story to relate to the girls, showing that she was more prudish. Not sure how true that was, but all I can remember is the guy who screamed "whore" at her while he was climaxing, so maybe she had a point. She was a little vanilla in the sex department.

I thought Charlotte was desperate to contribute something to the conversation. And that was the best she could come up with.

^If that's what they were going for, I think they did it better in the first episode where they spoke about politics and Charlotte keeps saying: "I had a college crush on Dan Quayle" until Carrie responds: "Yeah, we pretty much tried to ignore that the first time."

Man, the guy who called Charlotte a fucking bitch, a fucking whore in bed was hot as hell. I would have let him do that all the time.

I know what you mean, I didn't think that was a big deal at all, though of course Charlotte would. And I suppose his issue was he didn't know he was saying it which is something else. But hell, that kind of talk can be really hot in bed. Just not for her.

And HAD to say it to come, even when he was aware. That was a good episode actually. And the one where the bad kisser "rapes" Charlotte's face. I know from a guy on set that it took her a million takes to get a line right but she was really great on the show a lot of the time. Especially right before Harry proposed (her Emmy nom year, I am pretty sure).

She was actually decent given that her character was pretty bland. Kristin was Emmy nominated for the episode she begs Harry to even just be friends with her and the episode where she has to take care of her new puppies (she has a great scene where she gets angry that her dog gets pregnant first try but she can't have kids herself).

Comedy Supporting allows 2 episodes submissions.

Charlotte and Samantha were the best. Complete opposites when it came to sex.

It's crazy that Cattrall never won an Emmy. They were too busy giving Doris Roberts an Emmy every year for doing the same schtick she'd done for 40 years.

Watch the loooong tracking shot of the other three women walking down a street talking about Samantha becoming lesbian overnight and you will see Kristin go up on her line for a long stretch and finally remember. Was probably too late to reshoot it or it had taken forever to get even THAT close to a good take.

Jesus Kristen davis sounds like an idiot

I never cared for Doris myself R442...she always seemed smug.

Carrie was one ugly bitch in those series 5 episodes where she had that tight perm and trashy makeup

Carrie was one ugly bitch in those series 5 episodes where she had that tight perm and trashy makeup

Carrie was one ugly bitch in those series 5 episodes where she had that tight perm and trashy makeup

aint love honey its pity that a human could be born fug as she....

MR ED IS SHE

HER HUBBY IS GAY , TOO

bETH FRANKELS JAW LINE IS STILL FREEEEKY even after the saw job

No kidding, R446. She looks like one of those strange dolls from the 1920s. We call those 'pensioner perms". But I thought she looked her absolute best when she had her hair long and straight, in the ep where Big took her to a Park Ave party. She looked like a dancer, which in fact, SJP is.

I loved her long curly hair. The short hair was always terrible

Series 5 came out around the time of Chicago, didn't it? I always assumed the look was a riff on Roxie Hart. Not to mention the fact that she was pregnant and cutting the hair short was a way of distracting people from noticing so much,

Roxie had her hair pulled back in a tight bun and only wore black.

That perm aged Carrie. And that Atlantic City episode she almost shat herself with joy about being called "The hot one".

Imagine the cackling in the writers' room when they were forced to add that line

And the nasty comment she made to Charlotte when she wore a revealing dress later in the episode because she was jealous she was no longer "the hot one".

And the nasty comment she made to Charlotte when she wore a revealing dress later in the episode because she was jealous she was no longer "the hot one".

And the nasty comment she made to Charlotte when she wore a revealing dress later in the episode because she was jealous she was no longer "the hot one".

SJP picked up the opportunity and ran with it. Where else would she be a show leader? With that mug, especially now?

I just finished season 3 yesterday, which I decided to watch out of interest as it's been ages since I've seen some of those earlier episodes. It's very dated as everyone else has said, and some of the episodes are truly terrible ("Boy, Girl, Boy, Girl", "Hot Child in the City", "Frenemies" and "What Goes Around" - the saving grace of which is only the final scene where Natasha tells Carrie off) - especially after Charlotte's wedding/Carrie and Aiden splitting. Interestingly, Carrie is awful, but she's actually a lot easier to take at the same time... it's like we haven't quite got to the part of the show where the tone is: "Oh that wacky Carrie! Ya gotta love her!" She's still a character that you don't necessarily think of as being SJP. I noticed SJP was a producer during this series but not EP yet, Darren Star is still EP, which may have helped? Also, I think this is the last time that SJP looks really soft and pretty.

I did like the episode "Running with Scissors". I thought they did a good job showing Carrie and Big's affair going from fancy to sordid, and the scene at the end where they are in the bedroom at Big and Natasha's house and discussing whether he will break up his marriage for Carrie was written well. They're still playing games with each other, Big might be saying he wants to leave his wife, but is cagey at the same time. And then that scene where Natasha falls down the stairs still packs a punch.

But honestly, my mind wandered a lot. It's funny to think how much I used to love this show.

I've been doing the same R461. I'm into Season 3 now. Damn, there were some hot men in that show and I'd forgotten about some of them. Charlotte's facelicker, the hot short guy Samantha dates. I wonder if the real actor is that short? Mr. Too Big of Samantha's is one of the best looking men on the show.

Season 3 Carrie was fascinating. I had the thought that perhaps SJP insisted on making her more likable after she behaved during that season. I'm sure it alienated a lot of viewers to see her being a home wrecker. Personally, I thought it was the last brave and realistic choice that show made and they handled it well, not judging Carrie for what she'd done, but not celebrating it either.

Carrie should have ended up alone and bitter

After being mistaken for a prostitute AGAIN, Carrie should have really rethought her life choices

I think she was secretly a prostitute in the early seasons but didn't let on to her friends.

Always bra on of course. Later in the series she had to quit as all her regulars dropped her, due to loss of looks.

R463, that's what I've been thinking too! It's almost like when Carrie is moaning over and over again at Aiden in Season 4 "you have to forgive me!" it's not just her saying that to him, it's SJP saying that to the audience.

I agree too - in fact I think the affair was one of the better written parts on that show. Certainly it was more interesting to rewatch than most of what happened in that season.

[Quote] it's SJP saying that to the audience.

Which may have worked on Aiden, but not on me.

It's amazing how SJP looks so soft and is made up so well in season 3 and then in season 4, when she has more control over the show, she's pretty much wearing clown makeup and looks really harsh. I can't remember - was that the fashion at the time?

One thing I know from my own experience - you do not see yourself as a homewrecker and may not feel any shame at all if you are having an affair with a long-term ex, unless there are children involved. You see yourself as the "rightful owner," stealing back something that was stolen from you.

I didn't judge Carrie at all for having an affair with Big, apart from having sex in his marital bed. I felt sorry for her actually. But her naive expectation that Natasha would forgive her and her behaviour at the ambushed lunch were outrageous. To be fair, though, Natasha seemed to be more upset about her broken tooth than her violated marriage.

Bigger question is why are so many DLers obsessed with what white women in middle class America are into?

I wasn't going to continue after finishing season 3 but I thought I'd throw on the first episode of season 4 just to see how the show was changing. It definitely has a different feel, it's not hugely noticeable, but noticeable enough. It's more "cartoony" now. The women are becoming less real, and more caricatures... I think Miranda is the only regularly real seeming one really. SJP is doing a lot of "comedic" reactions to everything, her acting is becoming more broad (and not in a complimentary way). I think I've also worked out why she looks different after I watched first 6 episodes (yep, I kept going). She's clearly been working out a lot, she almost has that Madonna look in her arms and it makes her look more sinewy and harsher. Plus the makeup isn't flattering - 2001 must've been the year for heavy blush, because that's all I'm seeing.

Carrie is much worse now too, really awful to her friends. I suppose it's meant to be comedic, but it's annoying really. She's so rude to them. Particularly to Samantha.

Oh and the second episode is that god-awful one where Carrie is asked to be a model by Margaret Cho (who is almost rivaling Heather Graham when it comes to terrible acting). The whole episode is one long reason for everyone to tell Carrie over and over again that she is fabulous.

Oh, and speaking of hot men, I really like the guy who does the baby-talk with Samantha.

Watch the classic gay film "Parting Glances" to see more of John Bolger (the baby talk guy). He stars in it and is great. It should be required viewing for all gays, young and old alike.

Oh I will do, thanks R473. Seeing him be gay would be very sexy.

Actually, just checked out the AZ Nude site, and there are a couple of clips of him there.

Many, if not most of the actors on Sex and the City who played the boyfriends-of-the-week and did the sexual hijinx stuff were gay actors, weren't they? It does seem so from those I recognise, and I imagine that would be a lot more comfortable for the actresses in those scenes too.

Straight women emulating Sex in the City and similarly asinine "female empowerment" shows is why there are so many single 40 something women in the world now. Some women can have it all, so to speak, career, husband, kids but the majority will feel burned by trying to achieve all three.

A lot of what is considered "female empowerment" in media is very asinine, I agree. I don't think being able to blow your paycheck on designer shoes is particularly empowering, but that's what we're lead to believe it is. And we're often told someone is a strong woman, rather than shown it. Rather like how Beyonce deals with it in her music.

R476 The strong woman trope is so tired. There's nothing wrong with feeling vulnerable, that goes for men as well. I've seen first hand women who sacrificed having families for their careers and they twist themselves in knots trying to convince themselves that they are happy when they clearly have regrets. " You don't need a husband or kids to be happy" is an admirable feminist message but it rarely reflects how many women actually feel.

Here's the trailer, R474. According to my friend who played the other lead (excellently), Bolger was straight but cool. This film launched the career of one big star (you can see), another female TV star who is great in it (you can see) and one who should have been huge -- Adam, the adorable college kid who didn't really pursue acting much after. My friend also deserved bette though he had another nice run with "Billy's Hollywood Screen Kiss."

The director would've been ground breaking had he not died of AIDS right after this came out. Still sad. A great indie. Back when gay was kind of hip and not just about registering at Macy's for china patterns and living the burbs. :)

Thanks R478! Ah, so he's straight then? I should've known, given my history in who I'm attracted to haha. Worst gaydar ever here!

I do remember my friend said Bolger wouldn't do nudity, though I think he did on "SATC", right? Bolger stopped off at a soap for a while too, "One Life to Live", I think.

I just saw the episode he was in and if it was nudity it was impossible to see. When he gets up from the bed and storms off to the bathroom, you see him go into the bathroom but from behind the curtains hanging around the bed. He could be nude, but he could not be as well and it's just framed to give you the idea he is.

Another thing about season 4, suddenly all the women are wearing bras while having sex. It's kinda weird that his character is all: "Samanfa, I wuv your titty-witties" when they're completely hidden haha.

The titty-witty guy didn't show anything. The only cock we got in all season 4, maybe even the whole show (?) was James, if you freeze-framed a scene where he and Samantha are by a pool.

Half way through season 4 now. The product placement is getting really overt... H&H Bagels, George Foreman grills etc. And Carrie has started squealing at everything, ugh!

Still, Cynthia Nixon's section in "My Motherboard My Self" again brought tears to my eyes. The wrestler Samantha was fucking in that episode was kinda cute too.

Samantha doesn't really have any depth at this point in the show, she just turns up to do something wacky, and that's about it. I really like her character in general, but not in this season so much, so far. And I'm completely uninterested in Charlotte and Trey.

I like Charlotte and Trey and think she should have stayed with him. She could have just backed off a bit with the fertility treatments. But Bunny was a problem that was not going away, that's true. However, I never bought that they cured his impotence that fast.

I'm not up to it yet, but I seem to remember a point where Bunny says to Charlotte: "I don't enjoy Mandarin food and I don't enjoy a Mandarin child". I would never have been able to be as controlled about it as Charlotte was, and she was pretty revolted as it was. Bunny was such an awful woman! But I do love that actress, she always does a good job in the things I've seen her in.

As much as I'm not interested in them, I must say I did laugh at his face when he's all: "Darling, I'm juicy now!"

Was the Carrie character written as some kind of hick fresh off the turnip wagon? She seems to have no polish for a supposed NYC girl. Chomping gum at the opera, lighting up whenever and wherever she wants with no regard for her surroundings or respect for other people, causing scenes in public places, etc. She is seriously flawed to the point of atrociousness.

I think it was around 4 that Starr departed (or was so bored) and Michael Patrick King started playing Barbies with the characters.

The Charlotte and Trey storyline emerged like stunt casting with no point other than the stunt, as did the idea of let's make Carrie cute and dress her up beyond believable.

Shows almost always suffer when the original vision departs and the new team comes in to make their own mark. I never had a problem with Carrie until she became so cute and screwball!

It's very odd R486 - she spends all her time talking about what a city girl she is, but as you point out, she behaves like a hick. I'm just up to the episodes where she is going out to the "country" to stay at Aiden's country house... and she's insufferably rude about the whole thing, like she's above that.

It's funny because all those examples you mentioned are the kinds of things we outside the US would use to show the "ugly American abroad" trope, and yet here is an American show proudly putting them front and centre. The gum chewing is the worst! And yes, the scene causing is so cringey!

Yeah, that seems right to me too, R487. You can see a real difference between Darren Starr and Michael Patrick King at the helm. And amen! On this rewatch I have realised the same - screwball Carrie is when she becomes insufferable. And to me, she no longer feels like the character Carrie. She feels like SJP playing Carrie, if you get me.

R488 Carrie is gauche no matter wherever she's at and mean in her way. She's always unburdening herself of guilt at the expense of other people's feelings. She should have kept her cheating with Big from Aidan. Sometimes the best thing is to keep quiet and not do it again.

Absolutely. I don't buy that she had any altruistic reason for admitting that affair. "Always unburdening herself of guilt at the expense of other people's feelings" is perfectly put!

She's very mean, I agree. I always remember towards the end of the series that whenever Stanford comes along she starts making plans for doing fun things: "just with the girls". What a nasty bitch. Make plans when he's not around if you don't want to include him.

Have been watching "Summer of Sam" lately and am surprised I like Jennifer Esposito in it. Playing a dopey whore with a heart of gold and could have been awful but she's likeable and gorgeous. She'd have made a good Carrie especially at the time. Not a big name but does good work. Wonder why she isn't bigger save for mothering Gosling's baby, right?

Which episode did Carrie say "just for us girls"?

Can't remember the name but it was the one when they went to watch Charlotte's dog compete.

Found it. There was also another episode where she does something similar, I seem to remember.

And then there was that episode where she was "relieved" when she found out his relationship wasn't going as well as she thought.

There was an episode in season 2, I think, in which Carrie punched Big in the face because he accidently pushed her out of the bed while they were sleeping. I soooo wanted him to punch that little c*nt back. Of course if he had, she would've screamed abuse at the top of her lungs because it's totally okay to give your boyfriend a black eye, but how dare he lay a hand on you.

Early seasons Carrie, who chain-smoked, wore that ratty fur coat during the daytime, and wasn’t above fishing out Samantha’s diaphragm and having the occasional spot of cringey casual sex in the non-Big/non-Aiden episodes, was so much more satisfying than the “Diamonds, Daisies, Snowflakes, That Girl!” character she became after SJP took up as an executive producer.

Absolutely R496! And the thing is, the earlier Carrie was morally dubious too (remember her smirking while sitting next to her friend who had been videotaping his sexual partners without their consent?), but so much easier to take than the later Carrie who is constantly apologising for Samantha's behaviour to everyone around her and plotzing any time anyone says anything remotely sexual.

Another change I've noticed now I'm into season 4... the "Manhattan is the centre of the world" attitude is in full swing. Remember the earlier episodes where the girls HATED people who thought life began and ended in Manhattan? Miranda refused to date one guy because he never left the city and the girls pronounced this the "worst". Now, they have become those people.

Early season Carrie would never have carried (no pun intended) on like this during this conversation, as an example:

[Quote] Not a big name but does good work. Wonder why she isn't bigger save for mothering Gosling's baby, right?

Eva Mendes is the mother of Gosling's kids. Jennifer was married to Bradley Cooper. I think i last saw her in Mistresses, which i watched a quite a bit of.

Sorry to be petty but it was Samantha who fished the diaphragm out of Carrie, not the other way around. Sam took a shot of liquor and then wryly said, "I'm going in."

Thanks for the Mendes/Esposito clearing up above. I need to see more of Esposito's work (Mendes was okay in that bad twin movie with Damon and Cher way back when but that's all I know about her). Is Jennifer also Latina? Sorry, dumb question, I'm sure, but not sure what origin Esposito is, Hispanic or Italian.

See? Wouldn't she have made a good Carrie? Can be pretty or rolled up hard, etc.

Love her. Great speaking voice too.

Many have pointed out what we wrong here. Carrie went from being a relatable everywoman to becoming some sort of fashion template and goddess to look up to and aspire to be. I don't think a lot of people would have aspired to be season 1-3 Carrie. Many of us already were. She was messy and didn't know what she was doing just like most of us, but they never went too far out of their way to make her appear cute or charming. She did dumb things and there were usually consequences. By season 4, she's become an almost totally different person who's just given up and wants to be as selfish as humanly possible and not caring who they hurt in the process. Go figure that this is when the series really seemed to become popular.

Actually, I thought Carrie's transformation from a carefree, open person into a selfish narcissist with no fucks left to give to be very realistic. She had turned 35, her failures were piling up, and her future looked grim. Other examples of this were Lexie Featherston, Enid Frick, and to me, Miranda.

She was never carefree, she was always with the drama. Made her feel really grown up and cool

She seemed pretty carefree when she was visiting her friend who video'd his sexual encounters.

[quote]Actually, I thought Carrie's transformation from a carefree, open person into a selfish narcissist with no fucks left to give to be very realistic.

I'd agree except no one realized. Now that kind of personality is probably unlikely to do it themselves and SATC was not an actual drama but the show would have had to end with Carrie alone and either realizing or told... you're shallow, flighty and self-absorbed (in many ways, the quintessential New Yorker.) It would have been a great character study if her friends drifted, if Big and Barishnikov had both told her no thanks and all she had left was to call Skippy.

Wasn't that show though. Again, Michael Patrick King playing Barbies.

Totally agree R507

Maybe they could have finished with a bitter flash forward to Carrie in the future in the last 5 minutes of the final episode.

She'd be something like Helen Sharp in Death Becomes Her, stuck in her apartment (but anorexic instead of obese) Shrinks and police banging at the door while she sits in her filthy Dior gown, cosmo and cig in hand, obsessively replaying Big's latest marriage announcement on E!

The movies were awful but I thought the first took every awful quality of Carrie's and magnified it by 1000. I'd have dumped her too for that over the top nightmare. It was kind of sad... the character was ruined by the production team's fantasies of fabulous.

Carrie's habit of insisting everyone stop what they're doing and help her dissect every minute thing in her relationships, while in return merely offering a smirk and a lame quip at her friends' misfortunes was really irritating, and I just can't believe she'd have many friends left by the time she was 35. Oh but it's always: "I can't believe my friends aren't supporting me when I have always supported them!" She's deluded.

When she felt Charlotte was obligated to help her buy her apartment... that was the jump the shark moment.

I've been rewatching out of Covid boredom and Charlotte is very annoying to me too. It's like she has this fantasy future mapped out. Successful husband, check. Fabulous apartment, check. Now baby time, check. She becomes so obsessed with getting pregnant and runs Trey off and doesn't really consult him about adopting a "Mandarin" baby. He came home one night and she's teaching herself Mandarin. She was never able to reprioritize her life dreams. It was always husband, baby, baby, baby.....

cause folks loooove horses...

Finished season 4! If anything, Sarah Jessica's acting got worse over the season, she's so bad in the last couple of episodes in particular.

I discovered too that Carrie is not happy at all during her second run through with Aiden. The whole thing makes me wonder what the point was. As soon as she got him back she just complained about everything again. She really is the kind of person who only cares about others feelings if she thinks it's reflecting badly on her, not because she cares about the other person. Hounds Natasha and Nina Katz all over the place, begs Aiden to take her back, but only because it hurts her when she's made aware that not everyone thinks she's "fabulous".

"All That Glitters" is Carrie at her most annoying - her new gay best friend doesn't pay attention to her for 30 seconds and she is flouncing out of the place. Literally, he's chasing her, asking her to stay, and she's barely able to speak to him, acting all put out and passive-aggressives "it's fine!" as she struts away. I'd say he had a lucky escape, women like her tend to only see gay men as accessories anyway. Someone to sit and pay sole attention to her, but who she doesn't have to give anything back to.

Although I will say, that episode did make me laugh at Charlotte's line: "You said we were watching an independent film; I brought biscotti!" and Miranda: "Even my gay relationships are dysfunctional."

Oh, I thought the guy Charlotte picked up in the last episode was really cute - the one at MOMA, who then freaked out in her apartment.

Lucy Liu was terrible at playing herself. It must be hard for an actor to play themselves, because not one of them I've seen during this show has done a great job. Then again, Margaret Cho and Geri Halliwell play characters and they were terrible too. There's a lot more bad acting on this show than I remembered.

Trying to decide if I continue with season 5. Pros - it's very short. Cons - from memory it's the worst of Carrie yet.

No, the worst of Carrie is the last two episodes of season six, where her gaffes in Paris made my hair stand on end.

Does Season Six have any redeemable qualities?

I adored Candace Bergen as Enid Frick, so that redeemed season six somewhat. Also the Lexie Featherston ep is a showstopper. And I personally loved seeing Baryshnikov, although pairing him with anyone as gauche, self-centred and over-confident as Carrie was quite a stretch.

I loved Jennifer Coolidge as the divorced woman who give a purse party in Season Six. "Shop away, girls!"

If I have to give season 6 props, I will say that they did a good job with the tone of it over the 20 episodes. It feels like a journey where the girls are growing up, that life is changing, people are learning, growing and moving into a new chapter of life. Except fucking Carrie who could've learnt something, but never did. Miranda's stuff with her mother-in-law was great. I did think they were almost insultingly too quick with Charlotte getting over her miscarriage though, and they could've done more with Samantha and her cancer diagnosis. One of the best bits there was Samantha telling Carrie: "Please let me tell you about what I'm afraid of". Kim Catrall plays Samantha through those last handful of episodes with a kind of tiredness underneath Samantha's strength, which I liked, but it seems like that's her acting choice, not something written into the scripts, which very quickly became: "Samantha gets to wear a different wig every day!" apart from a few moments.

The poster who said that at one point we stopped watching Carrie and started watching SJP playing Carrie was spot on. No more obvious for me than episode 1 of season 5.

"SCREEECH!"

(v/o) "A museum, like a man, can sometimes be *closed* when you WISH they were *open*"

"SCREEEECH!"

Oh man, the screeching and squealing was ridiculous. I mean, she squealed at seeing a squirrel as though she'd never seen one before! And you get the feeling she's the kind of woman who thinks it's cute.

I rolled my eyes at Carrie lecturing Charlotte in the ring episode that whenever Charlotte had a problem she was nodding along and listening. When? Every scene I saw had Carrie making fun of her friends' problems and trying to turn the conversation back to her as soon as possible.

R521 I can only assume that the NYC that was in SATC was squirrel-free the way she carried on about it.

One of my issues was that her attire was too often inappropriate for the occassion to the point of absurdity. She goes to a horse stable wearing stilettos then bitches about horse shit and hay. She wore a bouffant ballgown to a jazz club and don't get me started on the knee socks with heels and miniskirt and tights with the dark circles on the knees. I know it was tv but c'mon.

R521 I can only assume that the NYC that was in SATC was squirrel-free the way she carried on about it.

One of my issues was that her attire was too often inappropriate for the occassion to the point of absurdity. She goes to a horse stable wearing stilettos then bitches about horse shit and hay. She wore a bouffant ballgown to a jazz club and don't get me started on the knee socks with heels and miniskirt and tights with the dark circles on the knees. I know it was tv but c'mon.

I didn't realise til I was told that she effectivdly tricked the producers of SATC by initially agreeing to nudity then changing her mind when they had already gone balls deep into production and couldn't recast her

Agreed R522. Patricia Field is certainly... something.

Going through a few seasons of this show now, another odd thing has struck me. It seems to be portraying Americans as thinking of McDonalds as being something more akin to fine dining. Or maybe it's just tacky Carrie, come to think of it.

[Quote] Or maybe it's just tacky Carrie, come to think of it.

It's always Carrie.

She even made the Russian take her to McDonald's. Anyone as stuffy and pretentious as that character would have dumped Carrie on the spot. But being an SJP fantasy, he found it charming.

I didn't think the Russian was stuffy or pretentious. He was supposed to be 53 years old, had lived a full and varied life, and was highly intelligent and creative. His nature was to be reserved and perhaps melancholy. His former life in communist Russia would have been beyond most Americans' and western Europeans' comprehension. What he saw in Carrie Bradshaw is beyond MY comprehension.

Carrie was the hick type who would go to McDonalds in Paris, wearing a beret and order Le Fries and Le Big Mac thinking she was just adorable.

R526 no one in America thinks it's fine dining.

Her "my LUVAH" routine with him was ridiculous too.

She was a mental midget compared to him

r533 "The next day at the Hotel Vasectomy, I had some questions.......for the man next to me."

What could have ever given you that idea??

Going to McDonalds wasn't the problem. SLOW DANCING at McDonalds was beyond bizarre.

The Carrie character wasn't that much different than her character in First Wives Club. Carrie was a bit nicer and a tad more sophisticated but not that much different in cultural sophistication than the Shelley character. Both characters chewed gum and had bad French.

The series aged like cheese in the sun. The second movie was the wooden stack in the heart of that Dracula.

No, I get that R531, that's what makes the weird McDonalds references in the show funny to me. Because the show treats it more like that.

R532 I couldn't agree more. That scene when they're looking for cologne is so cringey!

R358

It's a fun little movie. There are a few scenes in it that I'll still think of from time-to-time, such as the part in the opening sequence when drivers are waving at each other to go ahead at a four-way stop, suddenly drive forward all at once, and then crash into each other. I'm always reminded of it when I see drivers at a four-way being indecisive.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I want to watch it again. I've been feeling very nostalgic for the '90s lately.

Oh god, R530, you just reminded me of that scene in one of the early seasons where Carrie shows up to Big's door with McDonalds:

"Bonjour! Voilà le french hat, voilà le french fry. And it doesn't stop there, I have le Big Mac and le Fillet de Fish." *carefully places McDonalds bag so logo is directly facing camera*.

r540 Then she THROWS the burgers, completely wasting them. Bitch.

Exactly! I don't even eat McDonalds and that caused me pain to watch!

She was such a child. It was interesting in a psychological case study way early on, but it was like the older she got, the more desperate and crazy she got until you wouldn't have been surprised if Big woke up to find Natasha's severed head in his bed and Carrie standing above him with a meat cleaver. She truly seemed that insane at times. She refused to evolve which, once again, could have been interesting if they weren't trying to constantly tell us what a great life she had. It was like Absolutely Fabulous, but played straight as if the two self-absorbed leads were supposed to be role models.

Looking back on Carrie Bradshaw - I find her repulsive and the character has trained up a generation of females to act in the same ways and have the same expectations. My sister is one of them so I know what I'm talking about.

[quote]It was like Absolutely Fabulous, but played straight as if the two self-absorbed leads were supposed to be role models.

That's a great way to put it!

My sister is the same way R554. We even went to see the moviestogether and she was "awwww" ing throughout the whole thing when Big would make some big romantic gesture and acting like Carrie was the person she wanted to be. All I could think was "this Carrie woman is insufferable and why are her more interesting and likable friends not dumping her."

It's weird that the lead of the show is so awful, but the other three seem like real people with empathy. They have their issues, too, but they're far more likable. Maybe Kim Catrall has been right this whole time and SJP really is a nightmare and started letting more of the true her out during the show.

It makes one think that "The Comeback" was much more Lisa Kudrow than Michael Patrick King. I don't understand how he got it spot on in that show and got it so wrong with SATC.

I've not seen much of The Comeback, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were more Kudrow. But I'm also wondering, if it was evenly split between the two of them would it be a fair theory to posit that maybe on Sex and the City MPK kowtowed more to SJPs vision of Carrie which was more tied up in her own ego, whereas Lisa Kudrow is more likely to want to play a true warts and all character?

If you listen to the commentaries on the Comeback DVD it sounds like a fairly equal collaboration with King working a lot on the structure.

You also get the feeling that King loved the project....which may not have been the case in SATC...or even Friends for Kudrow.

I think it's definitely possible that SJP had more say than King. After all, she'd been with the project longer by that point and probably had quite a few talks about how her character wouldn't do this or that. Maybe she vetoed a lot of potentially interesting ideas.

Maybe, as the ratings got higher, HBO felt the need to make the show more accessible and wanted the audience to forget everything that happened before that and make Carrie some whimsical, childlike weirdo that women could idolize. Whatever it was, it wasn't a good change.

"Whimsical, childlike weirdo" is a perfect description of Carrie post season 3, haha!

I still wish I could work out what she meant by her sarcastic "What a delightful borough!" when Steve brought her and Miranda cheesecake and cannoli. That's such a weird thing to be snobby about.

Perhaps if she'd been smarter and invested in Brooklyn before it was the hip place it is now, she could be raking in some serious cash now? Of course she doesn't need to, because Big saved her, but just imagine if Carrie truly was able to stand on her own feet. On rewatching the show it's amazing how often she is bailed out of problems by other people, rather than figuring stuff out on her own.

That goes for almost all of them. Six seasons of "Independent Women" and all four leads end up not only with men, no that would be a turn off, but RICH men. Smith can't be a starving actor, he has to be famous. Big and his money come to the rescue. Charlotte wouldn't have looked at Harry twice if he weren't a partner in the law firm. Even Steve, the blue collar hero, can't just be a bartender, he has to OWN the bar. Odd how things work out so perfectly like when the one black football player finds the one black whore in the movie of "Best Little Whorehouse..."

I didn't think the borough comment was sarcastic. I think she was a little jealous of Miranda, her home, Steve, and the fact that Steve brought her cannollis from the local bakery.

It really would have been more interesting to see all the women settling for men who were actually good guys, but just unremarkable and not insanely rich. This played into the issues of the last few seasons. They're entertaining enough (especially whenever Carrie's not involved), but the message seemed to be "don't worry, ladies. You're rich Prince Charming will find you eventually" instead of "you might find your Prince Charming, but he won't be rich and connected, but he'll love you and that's better than all the money and connections in the world."

I'm not sure why I was surprised they went this route since Carrie spent so much time chasing after Big who seemed to only have one character trait - his money. When she was finally with men who would actually balance her out, she ran away screaming. It would have been so much better if she'd been left alone at the end of the series while all her other friends had settled down with nice guys who actually gave a shit about them.

Disagree with your analysis OP (and surprisingly more than half of those responding on here??). Carrie as written and played wasn't a narcissist and not any more self-centered than most of us. Was the character flawed? A bit. Was she the horrible selfish bitch you seem to think she was? No.

Also, I think you might be engaging in some projection yourself.

r555 = SJP

I know I'm going against the grain, but I liked Carrie for the most part. I didn't like: 1) her obsession with Big. When he said he as going to Paris for 6 months, that was a sign that he didn't want anything serious. 2) her whining about having to go to Aiden's cabin. It's a weekend. Get over yourself. 3) her relationship with the Russian. When he was rude to her friends at that dinner party, that was a sign that it wasn't going anywhere.

Samantha, Steve and Harry looked like such a motley collection of losers at the Russian"s dinner party. Stanford was marginal.

I've often thought that it may have been better not to have Miranda and Steve end up together, but for her story to be an exploration of a 'modern family' where they bring their child up as friends, and Miranda has to learn to trust women like Debbie who are going to be in the picture too. I don't actually have a problem with her and Steve together and I loved her opening up to let his mother live with them, the whole stroke thing, but it would've been interesting to show a successful split family like that. I have a friend who has two children with her ex-husband, they got divorced and are still best friends and work together to give the children the least disruptive life they can, and nearly everybody who hears about it still, in 2020, thinks it's "weird" and seems to think it'd be better if they were fighting and hated each other because that would be "normal". So an alternative situation like Miranda and Steve working together to create a larger, happy family, including both their new partners would've been interesting and something not really seen on television at that time.

Though of course the show wasn't going to, I wish they'd explored more of the mother who started becoming friends with Miranda and loaned her the vibrating baby chair. I believe Miranda would've been naturally gravitating towards women like that as she struggled being a first time mother. That woman showed a lot of understanding at the end when she found out none of Miranda's friends had children of their own.

I agree that Carrie's growth would've been best by leaving her alone at the end of the series and reflective on things. They did actually film three endings: Carrie with Big, Carrie with Alek and Carrie alone, and you can watch these as an extra, but it felt like they were always going to go with Carrie and Big, the other two aren't filmed very convincingly, and on top of that, Carrie isn't that reflective after she ends up alone anyway.

[quote]Stanford was marginal.

No kidding, Carrie won't even let him upstairs with the other girls to discuss moving to Paris. He has to stay downstairs and "pretend to be 'One of the Boys'". God she treated her supposed best friend like crap, but no different to the way I've seen, and experienced, a lot of women treat their gay friends. So I suppose it was fairly realistic.

Stanford and Anthony were both idiots, written and formed by idiots.

Gay characters were never written well on that show.

[Quote] the other two aren't filmed very convincingly, and on top of that, Carrie isn't that reflective after she ends up alone anyway.

That doesn't surprise me 😄

Alternate endings:

Oh and did anyone else know there was an alternate opening too? It's nowhere near as good as what they went with, it sorta fizzles out. For all my criticisms of this show, I do think the opening they went with is a good one.

The only women I know who liked this show where dopey shop-girls and hairdressers...especially single mothers.

Love that dress in the alternate opening.

Carrie twirling around in the alternative beginning was an hommage to Ann Marie and Mary Richards.

That tutu was ridic but I like the her getting splashed by the bus, showed the fantasy/reality part of the show quite well.

The opening scene always looked like a dream sequence to me, and I thought it captured that well, if that's what it was going for. It's like one of those walking naked in public dreams, but in this case it's a walking in a ridiculous costume in public dream.

R554

Neither Steve nor Smith were rich. And I'd say everyone except Carrie wound up with someone who gave a shit.

...

They sure liked her on high beam in those intros tho.

Unfortunately, moderately attractive women who become stars make a point of having characters in films or TV series remark how beautiful and desirable they are, or they're shown dazzling men who are far more attractive than they are.

This happens repeatedly in Streisand movies and in Dunham's "Girls" but also in every Reese Witherspoon and Nia Vardalos movie I've had the misfortune of seeing so it's not simply a Jewish thing. Carrie was a meeskite who dressed horribly. Samantha was a pig, Miranda was a whiner and Charlotte was a bore. I remember seeing a lifestyle piece on the SATC phenomenon in which four motley shopgirls insisted it was them on screen. Right.

Watching reruns I'm realizing how shrieky Charlotte was. Every time she gets excited she lets out an ear-piercing shriek, even in restaurants. I'd be embarrassed as hell being with her.

gals love horses, dats why...big long horse faced horses........neighhh!

Crying shame Kim never got an Emmy

"Neither Steve nor Smith were rich. And I'd say everyone except Carrie wound up with someone who gave a shit." Come on, you didn't see the Malibu beach house later? And Steve owns a bar in NYC so he could at least look good on paper, thanks to Miranda nagging OF COURSE.

As someone not a fan of either Carrie or Charlotte, I will say it's a cute scene here (at 1:05, after "oh, okay."). It looks like the actresses are just giggling to themselves, but I'm sure it was a choice, I believe the coffee shop scenes were very much mapped out. They did have great chemistry, these four.

It's why I'll never understand why some people got so upset to find out they weren't the best of friends, like in the show. That always seemed kind of juvenile to me. They're actors and it's their job - if they create great on screen chemistry that should be a point in their favour, not some weird kind of "betrayal".

r22, There is no way Carrie Bradshaw was a republican.

How did Steve go from broke to able to buy into a New York bar in one year?

Aiden backed him.

"Scout" was a front for a lower east side brothel!

I thought I'd found the scene of Carrie getting the hairy eyeball from Chloe, but this is as good as I've managed to get, some video by someone I guess fetishising the smoking? Anyway, there are still a few death glares included to chuckle at:

u must have meant to say WHY IS KIM CATTRAL SO POPULAR.....AS SHE IS....NOT THAT MONSTROUS SJP

I decided the other day to have a go at season 5, after last year watching 3 and 4 and writing about them above. Oh my god, watching them like that just shows that the transition into comic book territory is complete at season 5. Carrie - squealing and popping her eyes and doing over-acted spit-takes might as well be a cartoon. Who squeals when it starts to rain like that? And why do people think it's cute when women do that (so much so that they have their character do it to show how "lovable" they are)?

In fact, when watching the diner scenes or any of the scenes with all the four women together you can see by now they are really just caricatures of their original selves, perhaps Miranda is the only one who retains something of what she was.

Carrie is at her worst here in so many ways, it's hard to count them all. Her treatment of Samantha over the cover girl look, that whole Nina Katz episode, her treatment of Samantha at her book launch party. The scene of her telling Samantha to go home and then cutting off Charlotte talking about how upset she is with her divorce to talk about her own loneliness is probably one of the worst Carrie scenes ever. Why are any of these women friends with her? She's totally that girl who is part of your gang in your early 20s and then everyone outgrows her because she never stops behaving like she's still 22.

Watching SATC back, Carrie comes across horribly. She's not a great friend, she cheats on the nice guy who treated her well, and she is terrible to Stanford as well.

As for the ending, the producers went with the fantasy. Many of us have had a Mr. Big in our lives in one form or another--the guy who claims to care about you but is terribly selfish. You wish he could finally get it together and treat you right. You stay with him because you convince yourself you're in love with him and someday he may change. The reality is you either grow up and move on, or you stay attached and have no personal growth as you stay in a relationship where you allow yourself to be treated miserably.

SATC gave everyone the fantasy ending, with Big growing up and realizing he needed to get Carrie back because he truly loved her. That went against Big's character he'd exhibited from the start of the show.

I finally changed myself and got away from my version of Big. It was still hard to cut ties with him and we'd even hook up now and then after we broke up, but eventually I did fully cut the ties. In the end, I realized I was the problem and I had to fix myself. No one allowed him to treat me like he did except me. Once I thought more of myself, I got away. Now I'm with an Aiden type and can't believe how long I stayed with the Big type.

she aint beloved.

huge backlash against her....shallow biddy,

I feel like we're taking this entirely too seriously.

Once again she was voted the most ugly fug on planet Earth and beyond.

I axed her for spare change once, she jus gave me a dirty look and ran away.

Skunt!

Only the most unlikable phony women and bitchy gays love this godawful show.

No. At the beginning, it was aspirational - average woman with no connections finds love and success in the big city, just like Darren Starr's other shows, Younger and Emily in Paris. Then SJP became an executive director and the ugly duckling transformed into a fabulous swan....or thought she did.

Maybe Carrie willl marry a movie/broadway star and be his beard....

Oh wait...

SJP is a goddess! She’s everything I want to be: a wealthy boss who produces her own content, is married to a talented creative man, and has 2 perfect children (that she didn’t have to carry). She’s not a “kiss ass” and doesn’t fall prey to the Hollywood idea of fame and paparazzi bullshit. She’s perfect 🤩

Early seasons Carrie was pretty interesting. Definitely an anti-heroine of sorts. That might have maybe been the most groundbreaking thing that show did. It wasn't just the frank talk about sex, but having a female lead who was ridiculously flawed. You rooted for her to get her shit together because we could relate to falling for the wrong guy and being addicted to him even when you know it's not good for you. In a better show, her fallout for cheating on Aiden should have been huge and been a big wakeup call to her, but that's right around the time the show got more cutesy and began treating Carrie like someone perfect you should want to be who didn't need fixing.

Carrie should have probably ended up alone but with her friends for companionship at the end of the series. That would have been a much more realistic and powerful way to end the series.

White women in middle-America see Carrie as aspirational when her actions prove she's a selfish, narcisstic asshole. Remember when she had that "talk" with Big's wife in the restaurant? How fucking self-absorbed can you be! Middle American women seem to be clueless about her though.

This is a show that has not held up at all.

omg her perfume gives me the pukes.

I'm glad this thread got a second wind. Can we have a part two?

[quote]Only the most unlikable phony women and bitchy gays love this godawful show.

And yet, its main theme of women deciding to have sex like men is just normal today. I think it's weird, but it's totally normal now for women to just make sex dates with total strangers the way gay men do. No denying this show was hugely influential.

A gender flipped remake of this with four gay men would be amazing. Miranda could be a top. Stanford and Anthony could be lesbians.