What Do You Want to See in the Madonna Biopic She Probably Won't Include?

The people who actually wrote her songs.

Her brother she banished form her life.

Strong acting.

Unprocessed vocals.

She’s gonna leave out everything that would be interesting.

R1

[bold]Billboard: When you and Madonna worked together, she would mostly do the lyrics and you would bring in the music. Was there overlap where you would suggest ideas for different lyrics, or she would suggest a change in the music?

Patrick Leonard: ... I would just put the track, the chord changes, some kind of drum beat, bass line -- something simple -- and say, "here's the idea, here's what I have for the day." She would listen, then we would talk a little bit. Oftentimes I'd say, "here's the verse, and here's the chorus," and she'd say, "no, it's the other way around, switch 'em." So I'd switch 'em. This thing is an hour old, it's not etched in stone.

Then she would just start writing. She'd start writing lyrics and oftentimes there was an implied melody. She would start with that and deviate from it. Or if there was nothing but a chord change, she'd make up a melody. But, a lot of the time in my writing there's a melody implied or I even have something in mind. But she certainly doesn't need that.

She would write the lyrics in an hour, the same amount of time it took me to write the music (laughs). And then she'd sing it. We'd do some harmonies, she'd sing some harmony parts, and usually by three or four in the afternoon, she was gone.

That's how "Like a Prayer" was written, and then the next day we wrote "Cherish," and then the next day we wrote "Dear Jessie." And that's how it was. We wrote the album in less than two weeks.

Her writing those letters that came to light last year where she talked shit about Whitney Houston and Sharon Stone.

Rosanna Arquette being driven crazy by the fact that Madonna got all the publicity for what was supposed to be Rosanna's film.

I like A LOT of Madonna’s music from throughout her career, and I don’t mean this to be unkind, just honest (and, I think, obvious): there’s no rationale for suggesting she doesn’t write her own lyrics because most of her lyrics are a very far cry from poetry. Her language is not sophisticated. Her thoughts can be interesting sometimes, or interestingly contrarian, but they’re not especially deep or probing. It’s her vocal performance, despite her limited vocal range, that emotes beyond the scope of the lyrics.

So to suggest most of her lyrics are too good to be her own work doesn’t fly with me. Her lyrics comport pretty well with her stated perspectives on things.

Cherish was a popular song and it’s a great pop song, but look at the lyrics. They could have been written by a 14 year-old. Again, perfectly fine for pop music, and perfectly within the ability of Madonna.

“So tired of broken hearts and losing at this game

Before I start this dance

I take a chance in telling you

I want more than just romance

You are my destiny, I can't let go baby can't you see

Cupid please take your aim at me

Cherish the thought

Of always having you here by my side (oh, baby, I)

Cherish the joy

You keep bringing it into my life (I'm always singing it)

Cherish your strength

You got the power to make me feel good (and baby, I)

Perish the thought

Of ever leaving, I never would”

Will she cover how she stole those babies from their mother's in Africa?

She now denies all those stories about Penn beating and tying her up.

The whole movie should be a dramatization of her magnum opus, “Mother and Father”:

My mother died when I was five and all I did was sit and cry! I cried and cried and cried all day until the neighbors went away! My father had to go to work. I used to think he was a jerk!!!

I'd like to see Debra Winger quitting A League of Their Own because of her. (if true)

scenes with all the people that sued her, what led to it.

How will this story differ from Evita?

All her aborted babies visiting her in a nightmare sequence.

Her history as an ephebophile. . .

Twentysomething Madonna made out with Camille Barbone's (her first manager) 16-year-old nephew. Camille caught her in the act.

She'll never address this accusation from Ilene Rosenzweig's [bold]I Hate Madonna Handbook[/bold}:

[italic]According to several sources, Madonna often cruised Manhattan's Lower East Side in her limo, picking up young Latino men and having her way with them.

Madonna intimate Erica Bell has described these joy rides by saying, "You could go down to Avenue D and find dozens of guys who'll tell you they were picked up by Madonna. And they'd be telling the truth."

Bell remembered riding with Madonna and "picking up two or three at a time."

Sometimes she'd be satisfied with just a kiss, "but if she really liked the kid, she'd just rip off his clothes and do whatever she wanted with him while we drove around New York."

According to Mark Kamins, Madonna sometimes brought the destitute boys home to her luxurious apartment on the Upper West Side.

"She ran a Puerto Rican stud farm up there," he said.

Wasn't there any risk the boys would tell someone about the experiences after she had abandoned them? "These were just banji boys, downtown kids," Johnny Dynell, a close-hand observer, has said. "Madonna was smart. She knew nobody would believe them."[/italic]

She's clever enough to publicly date Latino guys of legal age. She's still older than their mothers, though. If a male star was rumored to cruise around at night, picking up teen girls, the judgment would be severe. It's a rare double standard in favor of women.

The baby she left on her sister's doorstep to raise.

Okay, 2nd try:

Her history as an ephebophile. . .

Twentysomething Madonna made out with Camille Barbone's (her first manager) 16-year-old nephew. Camille caught her in the act.

She'll never address this accusation from Ilene Rosenzweig's [bold]I Hate Madonna Handbook[/bold]:

[italic]According to several sources, Madonna often cruised Manhattan's Lower East Side in her limo, picking up young Latino men and having her way with them.

Madonna intimate Erica Bell has described these joy rides by saying, "You could go down to Avenue D and find dozens of guys who'll tell you they were picked up by Madonna. And they'd be telling the truth."

Bell remembered riding with Madonna and "picking up two or three at a time."

Sometimes she'd be satisfied with just a kiss, "but if she really liked the kid, she'd just rip off his clothes and do whatever she wanted with him while we drove around New York."

According to Mark Kamins, Madonna sometimes brought the destitute boys home to her luxurious apartment on the Upper West Side.

"She ran a Puerto Rican stud farm up there," he said.

Wasn't there any risk the boys would tell someone about the experiences after she had abandoned them? "These were just banji boys, downtown kids," Johnny Dynell, a close-hand observer, has said. "Madonna was smart. She knew nobody would believe them."[/italic]

She's clever enough to publicly date Latino guys of legal age. She's still older than their mothers, though. If a male star was accused of cruising around at night to pick up teen girls, the judgment would be severe. It's a rare double standard in favor of women.

Her untimely death

I want to see her be honest that she's a cold-hearted sociopath mercenary with little native talent, only a lot of ambition and a gift for musical theft and using others to get ahead.

The emotional scene where she forces Guy to get a circumcision.

R13, she might actually include that because it was a stupid decision on Winger's part.

Modesty.

R17, she's like a modern day Tallulah Bankhead, only with Latino boys instead of Etonians.

I want it to end like the Blair Witch project, except that Madonna turns a corner with her camera and gets a glimpse of Liz Rosenberg, who gives THE LOOK and suddenly it goes all black.

Talent.

I recently made a 6 CD set containing every single one of her singles plus a few extra songs in chronological order. From Everybody to I Don't Search I Find. There were like nearly a 100 tracks total. Listening to it from start to finish, the decline is apparent before the end of the 5th CD.

A scene of her looking at her original face and crying at how she mutilated herself.

"Listening to it from start to finish, the decline is apparent before the end of the 5th CD."

That's not nearly the insult you think it is. Roughly 80 singles before apparent decline is pretty damn impressive.

A scene of Rocco calling her a CUNT and saying he would rather live with his father than live with the pathetic whore he has as a mother.

Her infamous/famous porn movie that she made in 1979, A Certain Sacrifice. It wasn't released until 1985 when she became famous and the usual carefree Madonna was NOT happy. Tried to buy the rights to the movie for $5000 but was refused. Now that she is older and has children I would bet that this movie would be the #1 item that she will not include in her biopic.

Even Madonna has standards...………….

I don't think she will, but I'd love it if she showed a real glimpse, warts and all, of the LES late 70s/early 80s art scene in NYC. That would include her relationship with Basquiat, which she never talks about.

I also doubt she'll tell the truth about her "I moved to NYC with $27 in my pocket" or whatever she claimed. Supposedly she had family or family friends nearby helping her out.

The face she would really have if she hadn’t taken a picture of Lucy Lu to her plastic surgeon and said “Me wants to be like China girl for new album”.

Her hairy twat and pits

R32, it was not a porn movie.

The first half will be Desperately Seeking Susan and the second half will be Evita, except instead of dying from cancer, she will fall off a horse, get fat and become the world’s most successful standup comic.

Yikes r35, hadn’t seen that before. That’s a whole lot of landscaping to be done.

No one cares about this hag. She’s so full of shit her eyes are brown. Of course she’s direct her own film, she’s a narcissistic sociopath. The woman can’t even edit. Her whole life is one big lie starting with how much money she came to New York with. There was a script for another Madonna film that she blasted. She claimed that a certain event never took place. People pulled up the actual footage of the event she said never took place. She can’t remember shit. She’ll make herself out to be a victim for two brutal hours.

It’s hard to take away the snarkiness when it comes to Madonna, who is obviously a narcissist. Still, autobiography and memoir are different than biography. One is understood to be a subjective collection of personal memories and perceptions, which are not objective and entirely fact dependent, and the other, biography, has a greater responsibility to be objective and is written by a third party. This is a typical Madonna vanity project, another expression of her ego in service to itself. Which is not surprising; that’s really been the basis of her career since she established herself as a celebrity. She either hired Diablo Cody to do the writing because Cody kissed her ass, or else—possibly—in an effort to create a better-quality end product after realizing some self-limitations. I would put money on it being a dud like all of her film projects in which she has been more involved than simply reading lines. But who knows? Maybe it’ll be avant garde and creative in a way that will make it interesting.

Given her history, I expect a montage of pretentious and unselfaware “arty” film vignettes with a shaky camera and perhaps in black and white. A long music video that depicts her as gritty and ambitious and fearless.

How Bjork turned her down but wrote the song — not the album — "Bedtime Stories"

Bedtime Story ia another song written by committee. It was written by 3 or 4 people. Neither Madonna nor Bjork are songwriters.

Her suicide.

A 2-hour delay while the audience just sits there waiting for the movie to start.

If true and Julia Garner is to star, I will just be in awe the whole time. That girl is luminous and the camera lovers her. The content of the movie will be secondary.

Every single cock she's had in her.

[quote]Every single cock she's had in her.—48 hour running time

That's rich coming from a community known for frequenting filthy public toilets to suck anonymous cock through holes in the stalls.

Guy Ritchie taking half her fortune in 2008

Her trying to pay Dennis Rodman to knock her up

R41, and then how Björk followed it up by making it abundantly clear in any interview where she was asked about it afterwards, that she wrote it to help out Nellee Hooper, and not because she wanted to work with Madonna ("I did it as a favour to my friend, really").

Fab 5 Freddy said in an interview that in the early days, Madonna basically was a thot for his crew, and fucked her way through so many of them, that by the time she made the moves on him, he didn't want to touch her with a barge pole. I have no idea how true that is though, but it was in that Madonna documentary narrated by Kathy Burke (Magda from Absolutely Fabulous).

Won't hold my breath for any kind of understanding in the biopic that she was a heinous bitch for laughing at a member of her staff for potentially having been gang raped the night before.

You’re supposed to write your life story in book form then option it to a studio. She’s dumb as fuck. She had two other movies to direct that fell through thanks to her BFF Weinstein no longer funding her projects. Now she’s going to use herself. Why can’t she get it through her head that she will never be an actress or film director??

R50 I know someone who used to work at a recording studio networked with Atlantic who says Madonna used to suck off audio engineers right there in the studio. Seems hard to believe but he insists it’s true.

Sean Penn strapping her to a chair and beating the shit out of her needs to be included.

Her hilariously petty and nasty feud with Janet Jackson which started with Madonna giving her dancer a nasty look in Truth or Dare when they suggested something she was wearing looked "very rhythm nation" . And Madonna told Michael Jackson at the Oscar party they attended that he shouldn't collaborate with Janet because, basically, she wasn't good enough LOL. The balls on that woman to tell someone's family member that. And according to Arsenio Hall, Madonna and her dancers were making fun of Janet at some award show in their dressing room. A Janet dancer heard this and told Janet. And Janet then ripped Madonna as payback during the Erotica era , even saying Madodnna wasn't artistic ("I could walk naked down the highway too but would that make me an artist?"), that her music was classier and in an interivew, she even said (regarding Madonna) "as far as I'm concerned, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it. If I did hate her, I'd have good reason too". (Sigh), why can't we see a similar feud to that today??

R42, Bedtime Story was indeed written by Björk along with her frequent collaborator Nellee Hooper and producing partner Marius De Vries, hardly a song by committee...

R55 A committee of three.

The truth.

R54, it started before that, with Madonna making fun of LaToya's Playboy spread in '89. I think she said something like LaToya definitely had a boob job. Supposedly Janet was pissed on behalf of LaToya (and presumably Michael didn't care much).

R58, lol, a celebrity getting pissed about an alleged boob job. That's so lame.

Patrick Leonard has been WELL compensated to LIE about Madonna actually "co-writing" anything with him.

What a joke!

The Jacksons are Jehovah’s Witnesses, aren’t they? It never occurred to me before but they forbid blood transfusions, and I’m sure some of them have required blood during their many surgeries, no? Or are they allowed to have their own blood drawn and pumped back in?

Her in her original skin. I bet she’s dreadful-looking when you drain out the Botox and remove the silicone enhancements. I don’t know how her lovers deal with that expired package of thrown out bologna that she calls her vagina. *shudder* She was once a star, and rightly so, but her ego and vanity got in the way. The best ‘Madonna’ show/concert you can probably see nowadays would be a cover band and a really good drag queen impersonator lip-syncing all the classics. Hell, anyone with an ugly blond wig could do better than she can at this point.

She should cast her sister Melanie. We could see what Madonna would have looked like if she had aged as a human being. It might humanize the character a bit. If this old Italian lady hates hydrangeas, it ain’t gonna make me hate her.

One of the funny things about "Bedtime Story" that I read Björk mention in one of the interviews is that Madonna got one of the original lyrics wrong. Björk wrote the lyrics she wanted to hear Madonna sing, basically about shutting off her persona, relaxing and hopefully something positive coming out of that. So she wrote: "Let's get unconscious... learning logic and reason..." and Madonna sung it as "leaving logic and reason".

“I think at the time, yes. But that’s like six years ago, when everything about [Madonna] seemed very controlled. I think she’s a very intuitive person, and definitely her survival instincts are incredible. They’re like, outrageous. At the time, the words I thought she should say were, ‘I’m not using words anymore, let’s get unconscious honey. Fuck logic. Just be intuitive. Be more free. Go with the flow.’ Right now, she seems pretty much to be going with the flow.”

This prompts me to ask Björk if she thinks she might have put those mellowing-out thoughts into Madonna’s head. “Well, I wouldn’t credit myself for that,” she says. “Not at all. That’s a question for you to ask her.”

I sent a fax to Madonna via her publicist Liz Rosenberg, with the question: “Did singing the lyrics Björk wrote for Bedtime Story lead you in the direction of going more with the flow?” A day or two later, I receive this e-mail from Liz Rosenberg: “I wish I could get an answer from Madonna for you. She’s deep into rehearsals for her tour, and I can’t get any info from her for a while. I can tell you that Madonna certainly thinks Björk is inspiring and a brilliant artist. Madonna is a huge fan of her music. I’ve never thought Madonna was a ‘go with the flow’ person before or after recording Bedtime Story. She goes with a flow – but it’s a flow of her own creation, if you know what I mean.”

"Madonna did her own version and wrote the lyrics wrong. I can’t remember right now, but it was a really interesting mistake.

It was something like “Let’s say goodbye to logic and reason” and she got it wrong so that it actually meant the opposite….I was like, ‘Okay’…’”

R66 - that's the comment I remember reading!

Björk talks about writing "Bedtime Story" here too:

R58 Both of La Toya's Playboy issues rank as some of the best selling issues of Playboy of all time. A lot more well done than that rank skank Sex book of Madonna's. At least La Toya kept her figure and looks a lot better for her age than Madonna does. She may have had moderate success as an artist but Miss La Toya is very kind and down to Earth like Kylie Minogue is.

Madonna has always been jealous of other women and yet continues to call herself a feminist and bitch about double standards between the sexes.

The part where she and Ellen turn into actual bats then fly back to Hell.

[quote] Both of La Toya's Playboy issues rank as some of the best selling issues of Playboy of all time. A lot more well done than that rank skank Sex book of Madonna's. At least La Toya kept her figure and looks a lot better for her age than Madonna does. She may have had moderate success as an artist but Miss La Toya is very kind and down to Earth like Kylie Minogue is.

Some of the best satire I have ever read.

Footage of her ass-implant surgery.

The fake British accent years.

The best thing about the Sex book is Udo Kier!

[quote]One year ago today Madame X tour began!!! A journey We will never forget............... #madamextheatre

I hope at least an hour is devoted to the fascinating MADAME X era!

And Maluma plays himself!!!

By coincidence R19, I picked up the Andrew Morton biography of Madonna and it opened to the page where they discuss this, and according to this book (pg 117):

'[Getting to ride in a limo provided by the record company] was playful, it was a blast,' recalls Erika Belle, who denies the myth that they cruised round in order to pick up teenage Puerto Rican boys, and would have sex with them in the back of the car. 'There was a lot of flirting, lots of fun and that's all, as far as I'm concerned,' she continues. 'Sure, those were the days when girls were having sex on the dance floor of the Pyramid, but Madonna never wanted to be known for that. She was always self-aware, in control. That story just doesn't fit with the person she was and is.'

R76: Andrew Morton's biography was published 7 years after [bold]The I Hate Madonna Handbook[/bold]. Erika Belle sure contradicted herself. She's called a socialite, fashion designer, and art curator on Wikipedia, yet she's known because of her association with Madonna as a backup dancer, costume designer, and choreography collaborator. In other words, her fame and relevancy is based on being Madonna-adjacent. Sounds to me like Belle got shit for her candid, earlier statement and then backpedaled to pacify Madonna's cuntitude.

That still leaves Mark Kamins (former boyfriend who helped Madonna get her big break) and Johnny Dynell, both well-known in New York as deejays and record producers. They are successful in their own right. They weren't dependent on Madonna for their careers. I believe their claims.

[quote]Guy Ritchie taking half her fortune in 2008

Oh I’m sure she will include that, and she will portray herself as a victim for a sympathy grab.

R77, you're getting your information on Madonna from a book called, "The I Hate Madonna Handbook" and you actually think you're getting an unbiased account?

Madonna paid a nice tribute to Mark Kamins when he died, and I doubt she would've done so if he blabbed salacious personal stuff about her.

As for songwriting, many of Madonna's collaborators in their recollections have said that Madonna wrote the lyrics to certain songs. There's no reason to doubt that. Sure, there may have been several instances when she tweaked a line or two on somebody else's lyrics and got a co-writer credit, but that doesn't mean the former isn't also true.

Patrick Leonard has changed his story about what Madonna actually contributed so many times it’s laughable. Madonna can’t write for shit. She changes a line or word to get royalties. It’s a scam like Beyonce with her credits.

R79: And Andrew Morton is your source? Morton is a tabloid writer who's been successfully sued for libel. The book I mentioned was one example. I've already posted about Camille Barbone (her first manager) and her account of catching Madonna making out with Camille's 16-year-old nephew. After Camille confronted her and said that he was just a teen, Madonna replied: "he's awfully cute." Bitch never even had the common sense to act sorry for messing with a kid.

Furthermore, with her history of being a narcissist and control freak, her transgressive shtick, and the many stories of fucking anyone who could help her climb the ladder, what makes you think Madonna has any standards? In public, she dates men old enough to be legal and young enough to be her son's age. In private, they could be younger. With her track record, it's plausible. You think Kamins and Dynell are lying? They're not indebted to her. They don't need to kiss her ass.

[quote]Madonna paid a nice tribute to Mark Kamins when he died, and I doubt she would've done so if he blabbed salacious personal stuff about her.

Michael Jackson has said negative things about her and whaddayaknow, Madonna paid tribute to him at his public memorial. True to form, she made it about herself. Why would it be surprising she also paid tribute to Mark Kamins? Negative attention is still attention and it's all good to her. As long as she gets something out of it (performative kindness under a spotlight, sympathy for her public "grief", relevance) she'll be there. Hell, she even inserted herself in that Aretha Franklin tribute and made it all about Madonna (yet again). Again I ask, what standards?

My mistake: you, R79, are not also R76. That Morton comment doesn't apply to you.

She's never cared about society's rules. She thinks she's above everyone. So yes, I can easily believe she fucked Latino teens. And the ones who made such claims knew her personally, while her fans do not.

An accurate retelling of her life story would probably get an NC 17 rating from the MPAA. Frankly, at this point in time, I doubt anyone under 35 cares.

WTF? Neither Madonna nor Bjork are songwriters... Like someone else is writing Bjork's songs — as if a a "real" songwriting craftsman is coming in an re-arranging Bjork's songs to make them more commercial?

R84 Björk writes Björk’s songs. To argue otherwise is like Aviva Drescher telling Carole on the Real Housewives of New York that “no one writes their own book.” That’s the secret! No one writes their own music! All music is written by George R R Martin and J K Rowling, the only people on Earth who actually string words together. Good God.

And again, what is the basis of suggesting Madonna does not write a lot of her own lyrics? How completely moronic would any adult have to be not to be able to come up with lyrics like “true love/you’re the one I’m dreaming of/your heart fits me like a glove/and I’m gonna be/true blue, baby I love you!”

THIS IS NOT JOHN MILTON-LEVEL POETRY.

I am inclined to think that any of Madonna’s songs that include sophisticated language or ideas are co-written with other people, but I can’t think of a single Madonna song with lyrics that did not border on trite. Her most celebrated lyrics were from Ray of Light, which gives us surface-level “deep” lyrics such as “you only see what your eyes want to see/how can life be what you want it to be?/you’re frozen when your heart’s not open/mm mm mm mm mm mm if I could melt your heart/mm mm mm mm mm mm mm we’d never be apart.”

Honestly. If you told me a medicated and lobotomized Britney Spears wrote these words, I’d have no reason not to believe it.

Madonna paid for all of her "co-written by" credits, "lyrics by", etc. It's well known.

Patrick Leonard has changed his story as mentioned above. He's well compensated for his part in the fabrication of Madonna as a songwriter.

R44 I'm still laughing

Bjork and Madonna write lyrics, and others write the music. Compare to say, Sting, who writes both.

I want to know what Niki Harris and Donna DeLory did to piss M off.

I'd just like to correct the misconception that my referring to Morton had anything to do with how credible I think he is. I merely posted it out of interest due to the coincidence that I read the story about Puerto Rican youths above and then happened to open that book to the very page where there was a discussion on that same topic, albeit arguing something different. That was all.

I have actually been quite suspicious of Morton's book since I first read it, as there are things in there that I was pretty sure weren't true and they were only little things, so I kind thought if little things were made up or exaggerated, then I'm sure the bigger gossip is worse.

One really minor mention in it that made me wonder about the truthfulness of the book is that he talks about Madonna spending Thanksgiving with Tori Amos at one point, and I am a big Tori Amos fan, and back in the 90s Tori was open about everything she was up to, who she met etc, and she never once spoke of going to Madonna's house or even meeting her. Now, I can't say it didn't happen, but it seems kinda odd that Tori never said anything about this and the first I'd heard of it was in this rather tabloid-y book.

And just to add to the Björk conversation; she absolutely writes her own songs, often with others but sometimes alone too. She does a hell of a lot more than people realise. She had to release a statement about it recently to defend herself because the focus on her songs always goes to the male producers she works with, when often they've come in after her songs are 75-80% finished. She spent ages putting together all the beats for Vespertine, for example, and those are microbeats. A lot of female musicians who collaborate have spoken out about how common it is for people to just assume that it's the men who work with them who do most of the work.

Will she tell the truth about the Rodman relationship? This is what I want to see; her fallout with her brother, her fallout with Gwyneth (in detail),her fallout with Sandra; her thoughts on Janet, Mariah and Whitney; her romance with Tupac; her romance with JFK Jnr; her enduring relationship with Debi.

R89 they grew old and put attention on the fact that Madge had grown old too. They also reminded her of her past which she was well, past!

I'm curious about the breakup with Sandra Bernhard too. There are all these rumours about Ingrid coming out of the shower etc, but in Christopher Ciccone's book, he just mentions that Madonna (and he) are sick of Sandra because she's always miserable and negative. The one interview I saw with Sandra were she mentioned it she just briefly spoke of how it ended really immaturely, where Madonna snapped at her: "I can do what I want, we're not in high school!" and Sandra thought: "Aren't we?"

She had a fallout with GOOP, R91? Is it because Madonna is jealous of GOOP’s very well-known best friends forever relationship with Beyoncé and Jay Z, or because of competition over which multihyphenate actress-singer-dancer natural beauty has a greater claim to posh Englishness?

Also oooooh I want to to see her relationship with Jenny Shimizu (in detail) whom she was bedding at the same time as Angelina Jolie (yup!)

For whatever reason Niki and Donna have been sending birthday messages to M and performing and recording her songs lately. Perhaps they realize nobody gives a shit about their own stuff just their association to Madonna.

I think Madonna actually wrote the songs credited solely to her on her first album with some help and then started farming it out and adding her name on her subsequent albums.

It was really disappointing to read the 20th anniversary articles about Ray of Light because they seemed to confirm that she really had little to do with the creation; it really was William Orbit although apparently both he and M screwed Susannah Melvoin out of some credits.

The last song credited solely to Madonna was "Gambler", I think, which is pretty early on. She also has "Lucky Star", "Burning Up", "I Know It", "Think of Me", "Everybody" and "Shoo-Bee-Doo". If it's true that all those songs are solely hers, she could at least be considered to be an ok pop songwriter, I suppose.

I believe with "Everybody" though, that that was actually a collaboration with Steve Bray, and they made some deal where she got sole writing credit for it, and he got sole writing credit for "Ain't No Big Deal". At the same time, I'm sure in that interview I saw with him, he mentioned that Madonna had created a lot of the music for "Everybody" before he came into the picture too. Who knows?

Perhaps as time went on, she just got lazier and lazier? Maybe in the earlier days her collabs were more a case of her involving herself in instrumentation and melodies, and as time went on she left more and more of that up to the others? There does often seem to be a third party involved too, who gets shafted on the credits (Tony Shimkin for example, during the Erotica album, Ingrid Chavez with "Justify My Love", Shep Pettibone with "Secret" etc). Who was the producer who said he once tried to offer Madonna lyric advice and she snapped: "That's MY job"? Shep Pettibone? And I think Justin Timberlake said Madonna carried around a huge diary with her, containing heaps of lyric ideas, poems etc. I bet the lyrics are almost solely hers at least.

Niki and Donna have always seemed like rather unpleasant people to me. Didn't Belinda Carlisle allude somewhere to the fact that Donna was a problem?

Niki and donna were singing Belinda in Truth or Dare and Madonna said something like "are they trying to kill me" lol.

That's right! Haha, and then Belinda was interviewed about that not long after and made some cryptic comment like: "I wouldn't expect any less from Donna" or something. I vaguely remember something like that.

The lyrics are not Madonna's! Psycho stan!

Last year, the guy who FULLY WROTE "God Control" posted his demo of the song and it's 100% the song Madonna recorded. She didn't add any "lyrics," diary or no. She stole the fucking song after giving him a pittance for it and slapping her name on it as a "co-writer."

But she added NOTHING.

Someone explain to me why she would need to steal lyrics from anyone when the lyrics to most of her songs are not great? They’re usually very simple words and very simple ideas that just come together into fun-sounding or occasionally emotionally engaging music. I’ve posted examples of lyrics such as “True Blue” and “Cherish” above to ask why anyone would believe that those simple lyrics and simple ideas would require a brain trust of brilliant lyricists but no one seems to want to discuss this. I am genuinely curious.

She stole "God Control."

She stole "Ray Of Light."

That's not even argued by her team. They just say the appropriate parties were compensated and just ignore everything else.

R100, She writes some songs and others write songs for her. It's as simple as that. But the anti-Madonna-stan INSISTS that she steals ALL the songs. INSISTS that all her collaborators are paid a huge sum to lie about it. INSISTSS that she is the most horrible person in the world.

She never stole Ray of Light..The singer of the original song even said he was impressed with how she reworked the song (although he was initially annoyed).

[quote]he was impressed with how she reworked the song (although he was eventually PAID OFF).

Fixed it for TRUTH that everyone knows.

[quote]She never stole Ray of Light

So, you admit she stole GOD CONTROL.

R105, I have no idea since i stopped listening to most of her music that came after Music.

Saying something is valid because "everyone knows it" isn't a valid argument.

She stole from Another INGRID — INGRID CHAVEZ

The issues with "Justify My Love" are interesting. Madonna says she knew nothing of Ingrid Chavez: "When Lenny Kravitz brought me the song I didn't know anything about the fact that he had worked with Ingrid Chavez, I mean, I was completely innocent in the situation, and Lenny brought me a track, with... the lyrics written and then I came in and changed the things that I wanted to change... lyrically and then did, you know, my version of it."

This other exchange with Madonna is interesting in light of today with all the 'cultural appropriation' nonsense going on too:

LODER: I wonder what you made of the, uh, the subsidiary controversy with the track being lifted from Public Enemy, and Lenny Kravitz is getting a lot of...

MADONNA: Yeah, but Public Enemy lifted the track from James Brown. I mean, can we... if we talk about...

LODER: Well, they say they bought musicians in to do that track. They say that's a musical track they created.

MADONNA: Yes, but I, I challenge any rap artist to talk about originality, because they ALL rip off tracks from everybody else. I mean, that is the essence of rap music. You know... one would hope they have political messages or something to say in their rap, but, uh, generally it's all music borrowed from other people. So...

LODER: Do you think this is a good thing, or is it simply fact?

MADONNA: I think it's inevitable. I mean, I borrow from people all the time in my work, in my videos. I pay tribute to painters and photographers and dancers and so on and so forth and I think that it's inevitable and I think one should look at it as flattery, you know. And, or sort of an homage being paid to somebody.

LODER: I know Public Enemy has talked about maybe working with you, they could really show you how this is done...

MADONNA: Hell, I'd LOVE to work with Public Enemy, they are my number one, favourite rap group.

("Justify My Love" begins to be discussed in the below video from 09:35)

[quote]I pay tribute to painters and photographers and dancers and so on and so forth and I think that it's inevitable and I think one should look at it as flattery, you know. And, or sort of an homage being paid to somebody.

This is why Madonna should've taken the high road with Gaga, and taken it as a compliment that Gaga was borrowing her sound and style. But Gaga had veered into her lane and being successful at it. Madonna felt threatened and reacted unbecomingly.

Yeah, the response to Gaga was just not really necessary. I know she thought she was being clever with the Express Yourself/Born This Way performance but it still made her look insecure.